Non-Sooner football question

[BoulderSooner79]

I was watching the Saints/Lions game and was curious about a ruling. The Saints went for it on 4th and 1 and Brees leaped the line, extended the ball and then pulled the ball back. I don't understand why they would automatically give him forward progress. It's not a goal-line situation where once the ball crosses, it's a TD and the play is over. If a runner crosses the 1st down line to make, but retreats and gets tackle short, he doesn't get the 1st down. This looked like Brees retreating when he pulled the ball back. I thought runners only got forward progress when met by a tackler driving them back. Maybe they ruled he was contacted by a defender while the ball was extended, but that wasn't clear. Just curious.

[StoopTroup]

I think it's because of the words forward progress.

[BoulderSooner79]

I think it's because of the words forward progress.

I don't think the read the question ;)

[StoopTroup]

The is here? :D

[BoulderSooner79]

I meant "thee" :P

[StoopTroup]

I might have read the entire post but decided to cut to the chase a bit hastily.....lol

I still believe I might be onto something however....

[BoulderSooner79]

I'll shorten it. Brees should only be awarded forward progress if a defender is tackling him. Maybe there was a lineman grabbing his legs while he had the ball extended and I couldn't see it and that's what was ruled.

We've all seen a play where a runner has the first down, then gets greedy and retreats trying to make the big play. If he gets tackled short, he does not get awarded the 1st down just because he had it at one time. I see Brees pulling the ball back as the same thing unless he was being tackled. He voluntarily gave up the yardage. I wasn't watching on the TV with my DVR, so I couldn't replay it.

[StoopTroup]

I took four Cub Scouts to the Tulsa 66ers Game tonight so I didn't get to see the game. We won 108-83. Maine Red Claws suck bad.

Has that play made YouTube yet?

[DarrellZero]

It's actually not a bad question.

Forward progress is given to a runner who is pushed backward by a defender before being tackled.

Intentional retreat is not covered. If the QB is not down and pulls the ball back, the should be placed at the point where it was when the runner was declared down.

[LawtonBoy74]

That was a terrible job by the refs. Brees jumps over and extends the ball then the refs blow the whistle immediately and give the Saints the first down. That was bad officiating!!

[LRoss]

As a Lions fan, I saw that play and thought it looked weird but couldn't put my finger on it. You've just put your finger on it. I believe the op is right (all bias aside, as much as I'm able) and that kind of "forward progress" should never have been allowed, 1st down Lions.

Geez, between that, another egregious spot where a first down was given although clearly not earned (or challenged, unfortunately), and a fumble that was wrongly blown dead instead of being returned for a Lions touchdown . . . aw, ****, even with all of those corrected my defense STILL couldn't tackle, cover, pressure the qb, or squeeze an int when it hit their hands.

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

The fumble would not have been returned for a Td. The Saints had clearly stopped moving well before the ball was picked up.

[SoonernAR]

Great question and observation, the refs treated it like a goal line situation unfortunately I believe. Where breaking the plane ended the play immediately. Brees pulled back the ball as in retreat and was technically not down nor was the play dead.

[StoopTroup]

Usually when there are bad plays....isn't there a way for the other coach to have the play put under review?

I didn't hear Stafford complaining about the play in post game but I did notice that when you let another team get over 600 yards and break a 49 year old playoff record....you lose.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8jnpAhrtDg

[BoulderSooner79]

Thanks for the observations. At least I'm not alone thinking - hey, that was weird. Brees got to work it both ways: he got forward progress AND was allowed to protect the ball by tucking it away short of the line. The announcers didn't even say anything and it was a critical point in the game when it was still tight. I'm not a fan or either team, but I did think the Lions got shafted on several calls as the poster above pointed out. Yes, they game up 600 yards, but they wouldn't have if they were awarded the ball on the turnover and stop on 4th down. And that extra yard spot on 3rd down would have been a punt because the Saints were inside their own 20.

[StoopTroup]

When I see a score like that in the NFL....I figure the Refs let both Teams play instead of make calls. I mean...maybe you'd rather see them affect the game more but IMO if they keep the game fair...what's the difference? If they interfere to change the outcome....that would **** me off more. I'm getting a strong feeling that you wanted to see the Lions win. :D

[OkieThunderLion]

Bad call.

[StoopTroup]

If you wanted to see the Lions win....you must pray to the Glow in the Dark Baby Jesus. :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb8Hr7elaY8

[BoulderSooner79]

When I see a score like that in the NFL....I figure the Refs let both Teams play instead of make calls. I mean...maybe you'd rather see them affect the game more but IMO if they keep the game fair...what's the difference? If they interfere to change the outcome....that would **** me off more. I'm getting a strong feeling that you wanted to see the Lions win. :D

If you mean me -- not at all. I don't recall anything obvious like those 3 going the Saints way. And the announcers did point out 2 of those calls as being totally blown by the refs. The 3rd down spot that would have been a punt and the early whistle that should have allowed the Lions to return the fumble. I think the 3rd down spot may have been on the same drive that included the Bree "leap" not sure. But that long drive was what really sealed the game and it was ref-aided. A lot of the yards and points total came because the game was out of reach and Stafford was putting the ball up for grabs out of desperation at the end. Prior to that, the game was back on forth with neither defense being able to make a stop very often. If I have any bias, it would be for the Saints because I like Brees and don't care much for Suh. I just hate to see the refs have a bad game like that. On the other hand, you can blame the Lion's coaches on 1 of the calls - I think they win the 3rd down spot if they challenge. The replay looked very conclusive.

[StoopTroup]

Just watching this highlight video....Looks to me that if the Lions would have played some Defense at times instead of leaving some Saints WRs wide open....they might have been in this game and some supposed bad call wouldn't have been nearly as important to you. Looks to me like they got themselves in a shootout in the Dome and Brees torched them.

I wish I had recorded this one. I got the OU/KU Game....but I hear the 1st half was worth watching and to avoid the 2nd half.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgUMOo9tSiY

[BoulderSooner79]

Highlights don't tell the story at all. Certainly not a big deal to me - but I'm sure Lion's fans are not happy. The playoffs will certainly be more interesting going forward with the Saints winning vs. the Lions. This game had all the makings of a nail biter, but it didn't happen. The refs are humans too, but the NFL guys are usually better than this. And as I said, the Lion's coaches could have negated one of those calls via challenge and that is part of their jobs. I believe the score was 24-21 at that time and the Saints could not stop Calvin Johnson. But my original post was not about this game, I was more interested in the technical call on the Brees leap and whether that was the correct call. I still don't know the answer because I don't know if a defender had his legs. But I think if he was just coming down on his own lineman, the call was wrong. He clearly stuck the ball past the marker and clearly retracted it behind the marker and never moved forward again. The camera angle was right down the LOS.

[StoopTroup]

Yeah...so far the only Brees Leap I can find is the one against the Vikings where the Refs called him short of the 1st down.

I'd love to see this monumental game changer.

[rekamrettuB]

Yeah...so far the only Brees Leap I can find is the one against the Vikings where the Refs called him short of the 1st down.

I'd love to see this monumental game changer.

I haven't read every word of Boulder's posts but I don't think he's saying it would change the game outcome. But I did notice it toowhen it happened and thought the exact same thing. The refs should have spotted the ball back a bit as Brees, while in the air, stretched the ball forward and then backward before landing on anyone or the ground. The gave him the spot at where the ball was at its furthest point. The call was wrong. I didn't care about the outcome so it mattered not to me. I would have the same question if Stafford would have done it.

[BoulderSooner79]

Yeah...so far the only Brees Leap I can find is the one against the Vikings where the Refs called him short of the 1st down.

I'd love to see this monumental game changer.

ST, you just can't keep the fan bias out of the question and I let you thread jack - my bad. It was strictly a technical rules question. Supposed is is team X vs. team Y and it's a demonstration video used for referee school (no real game). This is your ref final and it's been called a 1st down on the field and you're the replay ref on the challenge. Does the play stand or do you reverse it and the ball goes over on downs? If you get it right, you get to call the Superbowl. Get it wrong, and it's back to ref'ing HS games and getting abused by parents that think you did Johnny wrong. 30 seconds to make the call - tick tick tick...

[StoopTroup]

I lived in Detroit as a kid. I rooted for Billy when he was there and couldn't believe my eyes when Sanders was there. I can't stand Suh and I had Brees and Colston on my Fantasy Team this year. I also had Detroit's RB Best and until he got hurt, he was killing it for me. Detriot let me down and the Saints kept me in the hunt and into the Fantasy playoffs so I am just supporting Brees and the Saints now and pooping on the lions. Don't take it personal. It's just some weird *** thing I got going on. :D

On another note....My Son is a Bradford Fan and will be until he dies. We made a pact to be Rams Fans from now on. I have dumped the Cowboys and Chefs as they were regional NFL Teams that I enjoyed watching as a kid growing up in Tulsa. My Cousins were from North of STL so it's not a huge stretch for me to become a Rams Fan...but if Sam is ever traded....it would probably be over quick.