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okie52
12/21/2011, 10:26 AM
States make daily life harder for illegal immigrants



By Alan Gomez, USA TODAY


Much of the international furor over state immigration laws in states such as Arizona and Alabama focused on the portions that granted local police the ability to conduct roadside immigration checks of people stopped for other crimes.

Alabama leaders are now considering revisions after foreign workers at Mercedes-Benz and Honda carmaking plants in the state were detained under the new law. The U.S. Department of Justice has sued to block four state enforcement laws — Alabama, Arizona, South Carolina and Utah — and Arizona's law will be in limbo until at least next summer when the U.S. Supreme Court is expected to rule on its constitutionality.

"(Immigration enforcement) bills in other states that were advancing, you may see them stall until we can get clarification from the Supreme Court," said South Carolina state Sen. Larry Grooms, a Republican whose enforcement bill passed this year.

That political and legal turmoil has left few legislators in other states pushing new law enforcement laws.

Mississippi state Sen. Joey Fillingane, a Republican whose enforcement bill passed the state Senate and could pass the House with a new Republican majority there this year, said he won't let potentially-lengthy reviews of Arizona's enforcement law stop him from pushing a similar measure.

"We understand from being attorneys and dealing with appeals that rulings can take a long, long time," Fillingane said. "I don't think that's any reason … to stop everything in its tracks."

But Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who has helped Arizona and other state legislators craft laws cracking down on illegal immigrants, sees that as the exception. He said legislators will continue expanding the use of E-Verify, which businesses can use to check the immigration status of job applicants, Secure Communities, which allows police to check the immigration status of people booked into local jails, and laws that restrict illegal immigrants from accessing public benefits.

Yet it's a new provision in Alabama's law that has caught the eye of many state legislators. Kobach said Alabama was the first state to invalidate all contracts entered into with illegal immigrants. A strict reading of the law could mean that any contract, including mortgages, apartment leases and basic work agreements, can be ruled null and void.

"That is one that has a much greater effect than some people might expect at first glance," Kobach said. "Suppose an illegal alien is doing some roofing business and wants to rent some equipment. Some short-term or long-term rental suddenly becomes more difficult to do."

Another aspect of Alabama's law forbids illegal immigrants from conducting any "business transaction" with a government agency. An Alabama federal judge ruled that the state must stop using that provision to prohibit illegal immigrants from renewing permits for their mobile homes, but it's being applied elsewhere.

The combination of those provisions "has led to nothing short of chaos in the state," said Karen Tumlin, managing attorney for the National Immigration Law Center, which was part of a lawsuit against Alabama's law. "They've been applied to a striking range of activities, from getting tags on your cars to getting public utilities to changing title on your cars."

Pennsylvania state Rep. Daryl Metcalfe, a Republican and founder of State Legislators for Legal Immigration, which pushes for federal and state laws that restrict illegal immigration, said he will wait for the Supreme Court to rule on the Arizona law before pushing anything similar in his state. But he said the recent success of Alabama banning contracts and business transactions by illegal immigrants has placed them on his "wish list" for the upcoming session.

"That's a very good way to expand the fight to shut down access to revenue that they get," he said.

North Carolina state Rep. Harry Warren, co-chairman of the state's Select Committee on the State's Role in Immigration Policy, said he is intrigued by the Alabama's law ability to prevent illegal immigrants from securing utilities such as heat and gas. He said that could be part of a package that the committee recommends to the Legislature some time in 2012.

But he worried about some of the unintended consequences that the contract and business transaction provisions have had in Alabama. Legal residents had to wait for hours in lines to renew their car registrations because they had to prove their citizenship.

"Going to the DMV is a long line already," Warren said. "The only thing you can do in your state is make it less attractive (for illegal immigrants) to come to, a little harder to live here legally. But the flipside is unforeseen circumstances. We need to really try to see what the ramifications would be of the laws that we would pass to try to accomplish those means."

Hire illegals, let them work for weeks, maybe a month or two, and stiff them on the bill. Beautiful.

OULenexaman
12/21/2011, 10:33 AM
Sweeet Home Alabama......where illegals sing the blues.

okie52
12/21/2011, 10:38 AM
Sweeet Home Alabama......where illegals sing the blues.

Roll, Tide, Roll....

pphilfran
12/21/2011, 10:56 AM
Sweeet Home Alabama......where illegals sing the blues.

Good song!

Big wheels keep on turning
Carry me home to see my kin
Singing songs about the Mexico
I miss Mexico once again
And I think it's a sin, yes

Well, I heard Yuri sing about her
Well, I heard ol' Selena put her down
Well, I hope Calderon will remember
A Mexican man don't need him around anyhow

Sweet home Mexico
Where the skies are polluted
Sweet home Mexicoi
Lord, I'm coming home to you

In Juarez they love the governor, boo boo boo
Now we all did what we could do
Now Los Zetss does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you? Tell the truth

Sweet home Mexico
Where the skies are so polluted
Sweet home Mexico
Lord, I'm coming home to you
Here I come, Alabama

Ah ah ah
Mexico, ah ah ah
Mexico, ah ah ah
Mexico, ah ah ah
Mexico

Now Tijuana has got the druggers
And they've been known to pick a bud or two
(Yes, they do!)
Lord, they get me off so much
They pick me up when I'm feeling blue, now how about you?

Sweet home Mexico
Where the skies are so polluted
Sweet home Mexico
Lord, I'm coming home to you

Sweet home Mexico, oh, sweet home baby
Where the skies are so polluted and the governor's true
Sweet home Mexico, Lordy
Lord, I'm coming home to you, yeah yeah
Caldiron's got the answer

okie52
12/21/2011, 11:26 AM
LOL-now I can put that with the 12 days of Christmas.

pphilfran
12/21/2011, 11:29 AM
LOL-now I can put that with the 12 days of Christmas.

Call me Bernie Taupin

sappstuf
12/21/2011, 11:32 AM
I bet they would make a waiver for a Mexican than can kick a field goal straight....

okie52
12/21/2011, 11:37 AM
I bet they would make a waiver for a Mexican than can kick a field goal straight....

Just a green card for as long as his eligibility lasts.

pphilfran
12/21/2011, 11:38 AM
I bet they would make a waiver for a Mexican than can kick a field goal straight....:joyous:

sappstuf
12/21/2011, 11:39 AM
Just a green card for as long as his eligibility lasts.

If he would have missed 3 field goals he would have been on a Greyhound that night.

okie52
12/21/2011, 11:44 AM
If he would have missed 3 field goals he would have been on a Greyhound that night.

lol-

BTW-the package is on its way-I hope it gets to you before Christmas.

KantoSooner
12/21/2011, 12:04 PM
I really don't think that being required to have valid ID is really that big an imposition on individuals if they want to do certain activities (license their car, drive their car, work, etc).

I have also lived in four other countries and in EVERY one of them I, as a legal alien resident, was required to carry my 'alien card' with me if I went more than 300 yards from home. Not to mention when I had any interaction with officialdom, rented a car, whatever. This is a no brainer, folks. It is an absolutely minimal imposition on aliens and on those who hire them.

okie52
12/21/2011, 12:09 PM
Requiring an ID is a great inconvenience to someone here illegally.

Where is the love?

sappstuf
12/21/2011, 12:23 PM
lol-

BTW-the package is on its way-I hope it gets to you before Christmas.

I greatly appreciate it and I promise you it shall be enjoyed regardless of when it arrives!

okie52
12/21/2011, 12:28 PM
I greatly appreciate it and I promise you it shall be enjoyed regardless of when it arrives!

Happy to do it but I'm skeptical about the time and reliability of deliveries. Ones sent to my son took weeks if they arrived at all.

badger
12/21/2011, 12:49 PM
In these harsh economic times, or even in times of plenty, I imagine that illegal immigrants have been screwed and conned and ripped off by many before... this just means that there's a law to backup such activity now.

I mean, even in the Bible people were screwing each other for personal gain... so Jacob, you'll work 7 years for my beautiful younger daughter's hand in marriage? OK! Seven years later... of course I gave you the ugly older one! It's mandatory that the oldest daughter is married first! But, if you work seven more years, I'll give you the wife you really wanted.

And how bout the child laborers that you can look down on when they expect their payment for babysitting, pet sitting, landscaping or other kid activites designed to earn some spending money? "Oh, did I say I would pay you $20? Because I'm quite sure that I said $10. Here's $5. I'll pay you the other $5 when I have more cash... which I never will, so don't ask."

sappstuf
12/21/2011, 12:54 PM
Happy to do it but I'm skeptical about the time and reliability of deliveries. Ones sent to my son took weeks if they arrived at all.

I'm hoping for the best.

okie52
12/21/2011, 01:17 PM
In these harsh economic times, or even in times of plenty, I imagine that illegal immigrants have been screwed and conned and ripped off by many before... this just means that there's a law to backup such activity now.

I mean, even in the Bible people were screwing each other for personal gain... so Jacob, you'll work 7 years for my beautiful younger daughter's hand in marriage? OK! Seven years later... of course I gave you the ugly older one! It's mandatory that the oldest daughter is married first! But, if you work seven more years, I'll give you the wife you really wanted.

And how bout the child laborers that you can look down on when they expect their payment for babysitting, pet sitting, landscaping or other kid activites designed to earn some spending money? "Oh, did I say I would pay you $20? Because I'm quite sure that I said $10. Here's $5. I'll pay you the other $5 when I have more cash... which I never will, so don't ask."

Moral?-leave.

badger
12/21/2011, 02:46 PM
Moral?-leave.

Is that the moral? Because I imagine no matter what time you live in, no matter where you live in the world, there will be people there to try to screw you outta what they owe you, because for whatever reason, they don't think they owe you.

There are other morals that might be more applicable here:

1- You are going to get screwed regardless, so hope for the best and if it is doesn't work out, try to make the best of a bad situation.

2- Trust nobody unless they have earned your trust.

3- Screw others first before they screw you.

4- Have a backup plan of retaliation or payment enforcement in case of screwage.

I would fear No. 4 in this illegal immigrant situation. A kid who is shortchanged on payment can ask mommy or daddy for help, but if an illegal immigrant is screwed, they're not going to the cops. Perhaps they'll set the house they just roofed for you on fire, or rob it, or slash the tires of the cars parked in front of it... or threaten to do any of the above in case of non-payment.

Dale Ellis
12/21/2011, 03:04 PM
Hire illegals, let them work for weeks, maybe a month or two, and stiff them on the bill. Beautiful.

They don't like it, they can sneak their *** right back across the border. I'm sure they receive much better treatment in Mehico than they do here.

okie52
12/21/2011, 04:22 PM
Is that the moral? Because I imagine no matter what time you live in, no matter where you live in the world, there will be people there to try to screw you outta what they owe you, because for whatever reason, they don't think they owe you.

There are other morals that might be more applicable here:

1- You are going to get screwed regardless, so hope for the best and if it is doesn't work out, try to make the best of a bad situation.

2- Trust nobody unless they have earned your trust.

3- Screw others first before they screw you.

4- Have a backup plan of retaliation or payment enforcement in case of screwage.

I would fear No. 4 in this illegal immigrant situation. A kid who is shortchanged on payment can ask mommy or daddy for help, but if an illegal immigrant is screwed, they're not going to the cops. Perhaps they'll set the house they just roofed for you on fire, or rob it, or slash the tires of the cars parked in front of it... or threaten to do any of the above in case of non-payment.

Of course they can break the law to retaliate...nothing new for them as they are lawbreakers to begin with.

okie52
12/21/2011, 04:23 PM
They don't like it, they can sneak their *** right back across the border. I'm sure they receive much better treatment in Mehico than they do here.

Indeed.

badger
12/21/2011, 05:00 PM
I am not trying to defend illegal immigrants here... I'm expressing concern of what the outcome of these laws will be.

There's the intended outcome that you all are bringing up --- illegal immigrants leave Alabama. And then, there are the more likely outcomes --- increased lawlessness by people that are already breaking laws being here, as such things already occur with people here legally.

KantoSooner
12/21/2011, 05:11 PM
Might I suggest what my 73 year old father did: he lives in Osage County and it seems that each year unscrupulous contractors send out roofing crews who are almost 100% Illegals. If they act up, he fires them on the spot, leaving these guys wandering around our rural area (5 miles outside of town, 40 houses or so, somebody always has roof damage in the spring.) So, having had a confrontation with one such group, dad purchased a Taurus Arms 'Judge' with the extended barrel and stock.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/22/2011, 09:48 AM
Feliz Navidad.

That's what I wrote on the comments line of the check I wrote to Gustavo, my lawn maintenance guy, as a Christmas tip of $100.

Did y'all tip your gardeners for Christmas?

KantoSooner
12/22/2011, 10:20 AM
I do, I move my wallet from one pocket to the other and say, 'Thank You!'.

OULenexaman
12/22/2011, 11:37 AM
I don't have an illegal alien gardener.....therefore I'm doing my part.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/22/2011, 05:44 PM
I really don't think that being required to have valid ID is really that big an imposition on individuals if they want to do certain activities (license their car, drive their car, work, etc).

I have also lived in four other countries and in EVERY one of them I, as a legal alien resident, was required to carry my 'alien card' with me if I went more than 300 yards from home. Not to mention when I had any interaction with officialdom, rented a car, whatever. This is a no brainer, folks. It is an absolutely minimal imposition on aliens and on those who hire them.

Kanto, how long did it take you acquire legal alien resident status in each of the four countries?