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View Full Version : The Feds(DOJ) now going after SHERIFF JOE in Arizona



RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/15/2011, 12:57 PM
Apparently, the good folks who got Russell Pearce recalled from the State Senate, have now gone full assault on getting rid of Sheriff Joe, by any method they can use. They are trying to get him to resign, and putting pressure on the County Board of Supervisors to go after him for negligence charges.

Also, there is apparently a DOJ investigation of him, and they are saying he isn't performing. I just heard something about this latest situmation on the radio, and haven't the particulars, yet.

Arpaio has been absolutely TOUGH AS NAILS while fighting the leftist assault on him, and his adherance to upholding immigration laws. This new, 2-pronged effort is gonna be his toughest test, yet. I don't know if even he is strong enough to withstand it.

OULenexaman
12/15/2011, 01:25 PM
He is.....Joe is bad to the bone.

OULenexaman
12/15/2011, 02:22 PM
and the one going after him is Assistant Attorney General Thomas E. Perez.....go figure.

okie52
12/15/2011, 02:29 PM
and the one going after him is Assistant Attorney General Thomas E. Perez.....go figure.


Work in the Obama administration

On March 31, 2009, President Barack Obama nominated Perez to be Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division of the United States Department of Justice.[1] The Senate Judiciary Committee held a hearing on Perez's nomination on April 29, 2009, and on June 4, 2009, the committee voted 17-2 to send Perez's nomination to the full Senate. According to Main Justice, an independent, non-partisan news Web site, Perez's nomination languished for several months amid questions by Republican senators about his record on immigration matters and by controversy over the Obama Justice Department's dismissal of a voter intimidation case against the militant New Black Panther Party.[2] Senator Patrick Leahy (Democrat, Vermont) characterized the opposition as foot-dragging and "posturing for narrow special interests."[3] The full United States Senate ultimately confirmed Perez on October 6, 2009 in a bipartisan 72-22 vote. Only two Senators spoke out against the nomination: Tom Coburn (Republican, Oklahoma) and David Vitter (Republican, Louisiana).[3]


Coburn scores again.

OULenexaman
12/15/2011, 03:02 PM
I'll bet Coburn and Vitter shared a beer that day...

soonercoop1
12/15/2011, 07:14 PM
Coburn scores again.

Shame Coburn won't run for Pres...something tells me he would clean that cesspool up...

ictsooner7
12/15/2011, 08:27 PM
You're going to pull out the New Black Panther Party laughable crap on us. What a JOKE! He violated peoples constitutional rights why isn't the teaparty out there protesting and screaming i want my country back?




PHOENIX — A scathing U.S. Justice Department report released Thursday found that Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s office carried out a blatant pattern of discrimination against Latinos and held a “systematic disregard” for the Constitution amid a series of immigration crackdowns that have turned the lawman into a prominent national political figure.

Arpaio struck a defiant tone in response to the report, calling it a politically motivated attack by the Obama administration that will make Arizona unsafe by keeping illegal immigrants on the street. “Don’t come here and use me the whipping boy for a national and international problem,” he said at a news conference.

Protesters Sergio Juarez, right, and Rafael Guerrero, both of Phoenix, wait to get into a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors meeting, Wednesday, Dec. 14, 2011, in Phoenix. Roughly 100 opponents of Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio turned out at the meeting to urge the officials to call for Arpaio’s resignation amid reports of botched sex-crime investigations and other problems in his department..

The government found that Arpaio’s office committed a wide range of civil rights violations against Latinos, including unjust immigration patrols and jail policies that deprive prisoners of basic Constitutional rights.

The Justice Department’s expert on measuring racial profiling said it is the most egregious case of profiling in the nation that he has seen or reviewed in professional literature, said Thomas Perez, who heads the Justice Department’s civil rights division.

“We found discriminatory policing that was deeply rooted in the culture of the department, a culture that breeds a systematic disregard for basic constitutional protections,” Perez said.

The findings will force Arpaio’s department to make major changes to carry out new policies against discrimination and improve training of staff and officers. Arpaio faces a Jan. 4 deadline for saying whether he wants to work out an agreement to make the changes. If not, the federal government will sue him, possibly putting in jeopardy millions of dollars in federal funding for Maricopa County.

The fallout from the report was swift. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced it is severing its ties with Arpaio, stripping his jail officers of their federal power to check whether inmates in county jails are in the county illegally, a move that was meant to speed up deportation.

Homeland security officials also are restricting Arpaio’s office from using a program that uses fingerprints collected in local jails to identify illegal immigrants.

He has long denied the racial profiling allegations, saying people are stopped if deputies have probable cause to believe they have committed crimes and that deputies later find many of them are illegal immigrants. He called the report “a sad day for America as a whole.”

“We are going to cooperate the best we can. And if they are not happy, I guess they can carry out their threat and go to federal court,” Arpaio said.

He said the decision by Homeland Security to sever ties will result in illegal immigrants being released from jail and large numbers. They will go undetected and be “dumped on a street near you. For that, you can thank the federal government,” the sheriff said.

The Justice Department’s conclusions in the civil probe mark the federal government’s harshest rebuke of a national political fixture who has risen to prominence for his immigration crackdowns and became coveted endorsement among candidates in the GOP presidential field. Arpaio ultimately decided to endorse Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who denounced the findings Thursday as politically motivated.

ictsooner7
12/15/2011, 08:43 PM
I'll bet Coburn and Vitter shared a beer that day...

With one of the whores Vitter called from the floor of the senate while it was in session.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/16/2011, 12:55 AM
You're going to pull out the New Black Panther Party laughable crap on us. What a JOKE! He violated peoples constitutional rights why isn't the teaparty out there protesting and screaming i want my country back?




PHOENIX — A scathing U.S. Justice Department report released Thursday found that Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s office carried out a blatant pattern of discrimination against Latinos and held a “systematic disregard” for the Constitution amid a series of immigration crackdowns that have turned the lawman into a prominent national political figure.

Arpaio struck a defiant tone in response to the report, calling it a politically motivated attack by the Obama administration that will make Arizona unsafe by keeping illegal immigrants on the street. “Don’t come here and use me the whipping boy for a national and international problem,” he said at a news conference.

Protesters Sergio Juarez, right, and Rafael Guerrero, both of Phoenix, wait to get into a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors meeting, Wednesday, Dec. 14, 2011, in Phoenix. Roughly 100 opponents of Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio turned out at the meeting to urge the officials to call for Arpaio’s resignation amid reports of botched sex-crime investigations and other problems in his department..

The government found that Arpaio’s office committed a wide range of civil rights violations against Latinos, including unjust immigration patrols and jail policies that deprive prisoners of basic Constitutional rights.

The Justice Department’s expert on measuring racial profiling said it is the most egregious case of profiling in the nation that he has seen or reviewed in professional literature, said Thomas Perez, who heads the Justice Department’s civil rights division.

“We found discriminatory policing that was deeply rooted in the culture of the department, a culture that breeds a systematic disregard for basic constitutional protections,” Perez said.

The findings will force Arpaio’s department to make major changes to carry out new policies against discrimination and improve training of staff and officers. Arpaio faces a Jan. 4 deadline for saying whether he wants to work out an agreement to make the changes. If not, the federal government will sue him, possibly putting in jeopardy millions of dollars in federal funding for Maricopa County.

The fallout from the report was swift. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced it is severing its ties with Arpaio, stripping his jail officers of their federal power to check whether inmates in county jails are in the county illegally, a move that was meant to speed up deportation.

Homeland security officials also are restricting Arpaio’s office from using a program that uses fingerprints collected in local jails to identify illegal immigrants.

He has long denied the racial profiling allegations, saying people are stopped if deputies have probable cause to believe they have committed crimes and that deputies later find many of them are illegal immigrants. He called the report “a sad day for America as a whole.”

“We are going to cooperate the best we can. And if they are not happy, I guess they can carry out their threat and go to federal court,” Arpaio said.

He said the decision by Homeland Security to sever ties will result in illegal immigrants being released from jail and large numbers. They will go undetected and be “dumped on a street near you. For that, you can thank the federal government,” the sheriff said.

The Justice Department’s conclusions in the civil probe mark the federal government’s harshest rebuke of a national political fixture who has risen to prominence for his immigration crackdowns and became coveted endorsement among candidates in the GOP presidential field. Arpaio ultimately decided to endorse Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who denounced the findings Thursday as politically motivated.That's some evil crap the federal govt. is doing. Who would have thought our country would come to this. And, it's in its early stages. Thanks for the above post.

sappstuf
12/16/2011, 01:25 AM
I would think if the Justice Department had actually found something they would have pressed formal charges instead of a press release.

Probably too busy giving weapons to Mexican cartels though...

Blue
12/16/2011, 02:04 AM
The Federal govt is corrupt to the core. Going after a sheriff for enforcing the law.

A Sheriff has more power than they do. Hopefully he and his deputies stand their ground and expel any fed who steps foot in his county. Wild wild west time.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/16/2011, 02:32 AM
Okie52 Logic:

Sheriff Joe endorsed Rick Perry for President.

Rick Perry favors instate tuition of illegal aliens.

Instate tuition is a magnet for illegal aliens.

Therefore, Sheriff Joe favors illegal immigration.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/16/2011, 02:38 AM
The lawmakers were reacting to an AP report from Sunday that found his office had botched a series of sex-crime cases. Here's part of that AP report:

"Both cases were among more than 400 sex-crimes reported to Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office during a three-year period ending in 2007 — including dozens of alleged child molestations — that were inadequately investigated and in some instances were not worked at all, according to current and former police officers familiar with the cases.

"In El Mirage alone, where Arpaio's office was providing contract police services, officials discovered at least 32 reported child molestations — with victims as young as 2 years old — where the sheriff's office failed to follow through, even though suspects were known in all but six cases.

"Many of the victims, said a retired El Mirage police official who reviewed the files, were children of illegal immigrants."

okie52
12/16/2011, 02:39 AM
Okie52 Logic:

Sheriff Joe endorsed Rick Perry for President.

Rick Perry favors instate tuition of illegal aliens.

Instate tuition is a magnet for illegal aliens.

Therefore, Sheriff Joe favors illegal immigration.

Not too far off there San Joaquin except I'll never understand why sheriff joe would back anillegal supporting wimp like perry. Must have held his nose while endorsing him.

Good thing you don't have your classes in sheriff joes county or you might be behind bars.

okie52
12/16/2011, 02:41 AM
I would think if the Justice Department had actually found something they would have pressed formal charges instead of a press release.

Probably too busy giving weapons to Mexican cartels though...

Or trying to defend employers hiring illegals.

okie52
12/16/2011, 02:47 AM
The lawmakers were reacting to an AP report from Sunday that found his office had botched a series of sex-crime cases. Here's part of that AP report:

"Both cases were among more than 400 sex-crimes reported to Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office during a three-year period ending in 2007 — including dozens of alleged child molestations — that were inadequately investigated and in some instances were not worked at all, according to current and former police officers familiar with the cases.

"In El Mirage alone, where Arpaio's office was providing contract police services, officials discovered at least 32 reported child molestations — with victims as young as 2 years old — where the sheriff's office failed to follow through, even though suspects were known in all but six cases.

"Many of the victims, said a retired El Mirage police official who reviewed the files, were children of illegal immigrants."

Maybe sheriff joe chose to be as selective about the cases he investigated as the justice department and ICE do with illegals.

diverdog
12/16/2011, 05:51 AM
The sheriffs biggest problem is the fact that he is a media whore and he likes the spot light. That will put a target on your back every time you are in front of the camera.

TheHumanAlphabet
12/16/2011, 11:04 AM
The sheriffs biggest problem is the fact that he is a media whore and he likes the spot light. That will put a target on your back every time you are in front of the camera.

^^This. I like a lot of what the Sheriff is doing. But I think the attention seeking has gotten in the way of good policing and sound judgement. This is an O'Bummer witch hunt through and through, but don't stop supporting criminal investigations and the like to be in front of the cameras.

ictsooner7
12/16/2011, 11:24 AM
I would think if the Justice Department had actually found something they would have pressed formal charges instead of a press release.

Probably too busy giving weapons to Mexican cartels though...

The report will be used by the Justice Department to seek major changes at Arpaio's office, such as new policies against discrimination and improvements of staff and officers. Arpaio faces a Jan. 4 deadline for saying whether he wants to work out an agreement to make the changes. If not, the federal government will sue him, possibly putting in jeopardy millions of dollars in federal funding for Maricopa County.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/16/2011, 12:00 PM
The report will be used by the Justice Department to seek major changes at Arpaio's office, such as new policies against discrimination and improvements of staff and officers. Arpaio faces a Jan. 4 deadline for saying whether he wants to work out an agreement to make the changes. If not, the federal government will sue him, possibly putting in jeopardy millions of dollars in federal funding for Maricopa County.As a resident of Maricopa county, I am certainly looking forward to the day when the prisoners are let out of the jails, as a punishment to Sheriff Joe for enforcing the law. Exciting times are ahead!

okie52
12/16/2011, 04:08 PM
Napolitano faces contempt citation over list of immigrants ICE flagged

House panel sets Friday deadline for data on those not detained, processed


By Jerry Seper

-

The Washington Times

Thursday, December 8, 2011



Homeland Security Secretary Janet A. Napolitano faces a deadline set by the House Judiciary Committee to provide a list of illegal and criminal immigrants who have been flagged by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents but have not been detained or placed in removal proceedings. A possible contempt citation hangs over the department.

The chairman of the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday asked Homeland Security Secretary Janet A. Napolitano to provide a list of illegal and criminal immigrants who have been flagged by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents but have not been detained or placed in removal proceedings.

Rep. Lamar Smith, Texas Republican, said the department faces the possibility of a contempt citation if it does not comply by Friday. He said the committee has sought the information for four months as a part of its oversight responsibility in trying to determine whether criminal immigrants intentionally released by ICE have committed additional crimes.

Mr. Smith said the information, sought through a committee subpoena, would be used to inform Congress on the problem of criminal immigrants and their affect on public safety.

“To comply with the subpoena, DHS must provide the committee with a list of aliens ICE identified but did not process for removal … But you still refuse to provide the initial list that contained this information,” Mr. Smith said. “Instead, DHS officials suggest ICE and the FBI will conduct their own analysis of 73,000 individuals that you believe fit the terms of the subpoena and would like 30 days to conduct this analysis.

“This is not what the committee requested,” he said.

On Nov. 18, Mr. Smith warned Homeland Security in a letter that the committee planned to seek enforcement of the subpoena to the “fullest extent allowed by the law,” but the department in its Dec. 2 response did not provide the subpoenaed documents. Instead, he said, the department requested another 30 days to compile additional information that has not yet been formally requested by the committee.

Mr. Smith said that according to Homeland Security officials’ own statements, the subpoenaed information “already has been compiled, but they refuse to hand it over to the House Judiciary Committee.”

“DHS must comply with the terms of the subpoena and provide the list of 220,955 individuals along with identifying information - a list that has already been prepared,” he said. “Full compliance with the terms of the subpoena is necessary for the committee to be able to verify independently and cross-reference the information provided by the administration and to conduct its own analysis of the data.
“The subpoenaed information must be provided in its entirety by Friday, December 9. The information I requested is firmly within the jurisdiction of the committee,” he said. “If DHS does not comply with this demand, the committee intends to go forward and consider a resolution to hold DHS in contempt of Congress and will proceed to a vote on such a resolution promptly.”

At issue in the immigration subpoena are the identities of hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who have been arrested by state and local police and run through the government’s Secure Communities program, but whom ICE has declined to put in deportation proceedings.All seven Republicans on the panel voted to authorize the subpoena, while all four Democrats opposed it, arguing the administration is making a good-faith effort to compile the information and should be given more time.

Under the program, information on federal, state and local police arrests that is already submitted to the FBI is now also checked by ICE agents to see if those in custody are foreigners who are eligible for deportation.







© Copyright 2011 The Washington Times, LLC. Click here for reprint permission.

I am sure the DOJ and Perez will want to investigate all of this gross mishandling of illegal immigrant criminals.

cleller
12/16/2011, 10:35 PM
As a resident of Maricopa county, I am certainly looking forward to the day when the prisoners are let out of the jails, as a punishment to Sheriff Joe for enforcing the law. Exciting times are ahead!

Yes! The world will be much better when all the jailbirds and lowlifes can do whatever they want all day with no one to stop them.

I'm so sick of people that work and try to better themselves, pay their bills and taxes, and follow the laws. There's a whole society of lazy, lawless idiots that should have their turn at running things.

oudivesherpa
12/16/2011, 10:50 PM
You don't think the DOJ could be acting on a political vendetta, do you?

sappstuf
12/17/2011, 12:48 AM
The report will be used by the Justice Department to seek major changes at Arpaio's office, such as new policies against discrimination and improvements of staff and officers. Arpaio faces a Jan. 4 deadline for saying whether he wants to work out an agreement to make the changes. If not, the federal government will sue him, possibly putting in jeopardy millions of dollars in federal funding for Maricopa County.

If the report actually found something illegal then it would be used for an indictment against the sheriff.. Apparently it didn't.

It has the unpleasant smell of politics all over it.

okie52
12/17/2011, 10:30 AM
If the report actually found something illegal then it would be used for an indictment against the sheriff.. Apparently it didn't.

It has the unpleasant smell of politics all over it.

Perez is a POS.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/17/2011, 10:38 AM
If the report actually found something illegal then it would be used for an indictment against the sheriff.. Apparently it didn't.

It has the unpleasant smell of politics all over it.

The feds do the same in other areas that aren't targeting the anti-Obama crowd. For example, the feds didn't throw the California medical marijuana store folks in jail, they just warned them that they need to shut down or else.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/17/2011, 05:36 PM
The feds do the same in other areas that aren't targeting the anti-Obama crowd. For example, the feds didn't throw the California medical marijuana store folks in jail, they just warned them that they need to shut down or else.Marijuana at the fed level is illegal, right? So is illegal entry into the USA.

StoopTroup
12/17/2011, 05:54 PM
That's some evil crap the federal govt. is doing. Who would have thought our country would come to this. And, it's in its early stages. Thanks for the above post.

If I remember right a good portion of us were saying this was gonna happen when your boy "Dubya" and his boys got the law changed. It's kind of why Obama is in Office.

StoopTroup
12/17/2011, 05:56 PM
The feds do the same in other areas that aren't targeting the anti-Obama crowd. For example, the feds didn't throw the California medical marijuana store folks in jail, they just warned them that they need to shut down or else.

That guy with the braids looks like Bill Murray and his brother looks like Bill's Brother....lol

http://www.empireonline.com/images/features/sibling-rivalry/brian-doyle-murray.jpg

http://img.poptower.com/pic-75077/andrew-deangelo-weed-wars.jpg?d=600

soonercoop1
12/25/2011, 01:37 PM
Welcome to our dear leader's police state...

ictsooner7
12/25/2011, 01:43 PM
If the report actually found something illegal then it would be used for an indictment against the sheriff.. Apparently it didn't.

It has the unpleasant smell of politics all over it.

Just because the republicans used federal offices for political vendettas doesn't mean Obama does.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/25/2011, 05:25 PM
Just because the republicans used federal offices for political vendettas doesn't mean Obama does.Prayers to Baby Jesus on His birthday, for you and the other statists who frequent Soonerfans. May you one day understand the errors of your political and economic beliefs.

AlboSooner
12/26/2011, 11:43 AM
Shame Coburn won't run for Pres...something tells me he would clean that cesspool up...
Although Coburn is admirable, he would follow the path of any modern president, and in the process would lose his integrity and himself. Much like Obama.

Midtowner
12/26/2011, 01:38 PM
It's kind of a skunk fight down there. There are folks on both sides of the fight stepping way over the line, Arpaio is certainly not innocent. He's filed hundreds of bogus charges against his political rivals and out of those, only one has been successfully prosecuted, resulting in a plea of a class 2 misdemeanor.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/26/2011, 03:45 PM
Arpaio is certainly not innocent. He's filed hundreds of BOGUS charges against his political rivals If you really believe that(and, who here is surprised that you apparently do?), You are included in the prayer club for pinkish statists. May they do you some good.

Midtowner
12/26/2011, 05:47 PM
If you really believe that(and, who here is surprised that you apparently do?), You are included in the prayer club for pinkish statists. May they do you some good.

Do you doubt that he's pursued investigations against political rivals?

Do you doubt that he's gotten his pet state's attorney to file charges against them?

Do you deny that except for one who plead out to a misdemeanor of patronage, that none of these charges have ever stuck?

Those are facts, and yes, I believe facts. If that makes me a pinko or whatever in your book, your mind works in scary ways.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/26/2011, 08:20 PM
Do you doubt that he's pursued investigations against political rivals?

Do you doubt that he's gotten his pet state's attorney to file charges against them?

Do you deny that except for one who plead out to a misdemeanor of patronage, that none of these charges have ever stuck?

Those are facts, and yes, I believe facts. If that makes me a pinko or whatever in your book, your mind works in scary ways.His political enemies have been harrassing him for years. He has sought to uphold the laws regarding illegal immigration, and they don't like that, and do everything they can to try to destroy Arpaio. I am amazed he has been ble to withstand the onslaught. I think you probably REALLY know that, and either don't want to admit it, or (most likely) are firmly in the camp of his enemies.("political rivals") They DID get his "pet" attorney. You are so transparent.

The tentacles of the Left ave VERY far-reaching. I'm sure you know that too, and I would estimate, are quite pleased about it.

Midtowner
12/26/2011, 10:11 PM
That's not an answer to any of those questions. Answer the questions I posed or you can just go ahead and admit you're full of isht.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/26/2011, 10:21 PM
That's not an answer to any of those questions. Answer the questions I posed or you can just go ahead and admit you're full of isht.Cutting to the bottom line is what I already did. Perhaps you missed it. haha

ictsooner7
12/26/2011, 10:30 PM
Prayers to Baby Jesus on His birthday, for you and the other statists who frequent Soonerfans. May you one day understand the errors of your political and economic beliefs.



WOW..............another ignorant condescending insulting post from another ignorant dumba$$, inbred, redneck, hillbilly who thinks if you don't think his way you are some kind of totalitarian commie who wants to have the government to take over everything. The most socialist president we have ever had is RICHARD "TRICKIE DICKIE, I AM NOT A CROOK" NIXON, who took total control of wages and prices for 18 months.



As for "May you one day understand the errors of your political and economic beliefs." I feel the same way about you! Funny how that works, at least I'm not so brainwashed by a druggie that I only listen to his opinions without checking it out before I go blather it around as some kind of fact.

soonerhubs
12/26/2011, 10:38 PM
Question: Does the word "statists" apply to republicans who backed the central government's war-mongering and liberty stomping from 2001 to 2008? Maybe you should call them dar evil dems the "wrong kind of statists." It would not only be more accurate. It would also be less ironic.

soonerhubs
12/26/2011, 10:41 PM
Oh, and Ron Paul seems to be the only candidate I see that truly supports Liberty and reduction of government, so he's my choice.


I am so tired of big government spendthrifts, and I don't give two ****s what political party they slap on their hat.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/26/2011, 10:59 PM
WOW... ignorant... from another ignorant dumba$$, inbred, redneck, hillbilly

I'm not.. brainwashed by a druggie that I only listen to his opinions without checking it out before I go blather it around as some kind of fact.7 stupid cards, and a shot in the dark. IMPRESSIVE haha

ictsooner7
12/26/2011, 11:11 PM
Oh, and Ron Paul seems to be the only candidate I see that truly supports Liberty and reduction of government, so he's my choice.


I am so tired of big government spendthrifts, and I don't give two ****s what political party they slap on their hat.

Paul is just another crackpot rightwinger who somehow got elected. Back on the gold standard? His number one position is aborition. He is just another typical politician trying to win favor with his party.



Efforts to fund abortion ranks among stupidest policies
One thing I believe for certain is that the federal government should never tax pro-life citizens to pay for abortions. The constant effort by the pro-choice crowd to fund abortion must rank among the stupidest policies ever, even from their viewpoint. All they accomplish is to give valiant motivation for all pro-life forces as well as the antitax supporters of abortion to fight against them.
Source: Liberty Defined, by Rep. Ron Paul, p. 6 , Apr 19, 2011



what about my rights? I don't care if my hard earned tax dollars go to fund abortion. Do i get to choose where my tax dollars go? NO! But anti-choice wingnuts should be able to?




Define life at conception in law, as scientific statement

On the right-to-life issue, I believe, I’m a real stickler for civil liberties. It’s academic to talk about civil liberties if you don’t talk about the true protection of all life. So if you are going to protect liberty, you have to protect the life of the unborn just as well.

I have a Bill in congress I certainly would promote and push as president, called the Sanctity of Life Amendment. We establish the principle that life begins at conception. And someone says, ‘oh why are you saying that?’ and I say, ‘well, that’s not a political statement -- that’s a scientific statement that I’m making!“

I know we’re all interested in a better court system and amending the constitution to protect life. But sometimes I think that is dismissing the way we can handle this much quicker, and my bill removes the jurisdiction of the federal courts from the issue of abortion, if a state law says no abortion, it doesn’t go to the supreme court to be ruled out of order

Source: Speeches to 2008 Conservative Political Action Conference , Feb 7, 2008


radical far rightwingnut position, how do you know its viable? Another politician forcing a political position on science. We had eight long ignorant years of that crap.



Live within our means and start paying down the deficit now

We’re told that this war is going to go on for a long, long time. That means that the next generation--the burden is being placed on these young people. That is why the college kids are coming out. Because they’re getting ripped off. We have undermined their liberties, we’re giving them a foreign policy where it’s their lives on the line, the threat of a draft is coming for men and women as this war is likely to spread--and what are they inheriting? Less freedom and a lot of debt! Entitlements up to 60 trillion dollars and they can’t pay it. A group of young people going into the work force which is smaller than the ones who are in retirement. The baby boomers are retiring and they’re going to demand what they put into the system and it’s just not there. What we need to do is not only live within our means, but start paying down the deficit, and offer an opportunity at least for the next generation to get out.
Source: Speeches to 2008 Conservative Political Action Conference , Feb 7, 2008

Check the date...............HIS party was blowing it up for eight long years. I don't see increased defense spending mentioned. Typical republican hypocrite.

ictsooner7
12/26/2011, 11:13 PM
7 stupid cards, and a shot in the dark. IMPRESSIVE haha
Originally Posted by ictsooner7
WOW... ignorant... from another ignorant dumba$$, inbred, redneck, hillbilly

I'm not.. brainwashed by a druggie that I only listen to his opinions without checking it out before I go blather it around as some kind of fact.


why did you edit my post?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/26/2011, 11:58 PM
why did you edit my post?I just included what I wanted to talk about.

I agree that Nixon's price controls were very ill advised. I would hardly put him in the socialist mindset of Obearack, but he was certainly not a free market economist.

Midtowner
12/27/2011, 12:21 AM
Cutting to the bottom line is what I already did. Perhaps you missed it. haha

2 posts and no answers? Are you afraid of the truth?

Arpaio is just as dirty as all of the other politicians in that part of the country and he's willing to make up criminal charges to persecute his political rivals. Nothing you've said contradicts that.

StoopTroup
12/27/2011, 12:22 AM
I just included what I wanted to talk about.



Playing God now. Cool having your own Golden EIB Microphone huh?

StoopTroup
12/27/2011, 12:33 AM
Oh, and Ron Paul seems to be the only candidate I see that truly supports Liberty and reduction of government, so he's my choice.


I am so tired of big government spendthrifts, and I don't give two ****s what political party they slap on their hat.

I guess I can see folks attraction to Ron given what the Republican Party has to offer this go round. What I don't get is this whole jump on Ron Paul's Train now. I mean....he's been around and folks have had plenty of opportunity to vote him for POTUS. I think he'd be worse than Obama as once elected as a Republican the Party will need to bow down to him and change to his reasoning and just as it's taken 3 years for the Republicans to start getting along with Obama....it will just be another long period of time where all we see is a bunch of folks bellowing and whining and posturing. I think we might as well put Obama back in as see Ron have to redesign the Republican Party and....I really think he's got a better chance at that than being POTUS. I think Ron would be a better RNC Chairman than Reince Priebus. It's to bad they didn't think about trying to buy Ron off with that position.

ictsooner7
12/27/2011, 12:42 AM
I just included what I wanted to talk about.

I agree that Nixon's price controls were very ill advised. I would hardly put him in the socialist mindset of Obearack, but he was certainly not a free market economist.

Ill advised? Lets not talk about facts that don't backup my ignorant talking points. Typical republican, wage and price controls is a total take over of our economy and somehow you still think President Obama is the socialist. What exactly has the President done that is socialist? If the President had contolled prices and wages you would be taking up arms, for a wingnut like yourself it's ok when a republican is a socialist or a lying cheating POS, but if a democrat did it, you impeach him or call him a commiee.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/27/2011, 02:07 AM
2 posts and no answers? Are you afraid of the truth?

Arpaio is just as dirty as all of the other politicians in that part of the country and he's willing to make up criminal charges to persecute his political rivals. Nothing you've said contradicts that.Prayers, Fidel.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/27/2011, 02:14 AM
... ignorant talking points.....a wingnut like yourself Down to 1 race card, and a crazy card! What did I say that calmed you down?

"What exactly has the President done that is socialist?" HOLY SMOKES, GOT HORSE BLINDERS? WOW!

ictsooner7
12/27/2011, 08:11 AM
Down to 1 race card, and a crazy card! What did I say that calmed you down?

"What exactly has the President done that is socialist?" HOLY SMOKES, GOT HORSE BLINDERS? WOW!

What race card, I never mentioned race, I'm talking about being called a SOCIALIST.

AGAIN, ANSWER THE QUESTION.

What exactly has the President done that is socialist? Details.

Midtowner
12/27/2011, 08:24 AM
Prayers, Fidel.

3 posts now and nothing to answer the following:

Do you doubt that he's pursued investigations against political rivals?

Do you doubt that he's gotten his pet state's attorney to file charges against them?

Do you deny that except for one who plead out to a misdemeanor of patronage, that none of these charges have ever stuck?

All of this is from Wikipedia and is sourced:


In February 2010 Judge John Leonardo of Pima County Superior Court found that Arpaio "misused the power of his office to target members of the (Board of Supervisors) for criminal investigation."[63]
In 2008 a federal grand jury began an inquiry of Arpaio for abuse of power, in connection with an FBI investigation.[64][65] Arpaio is being investigated for politically motivated and "bogus" prosecutions, which a former US Attorney called "utterly unacceptable".[64][65] Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon has called Arpaio's "long list" of questionable prosecutions "a reign of terror".[65]
The targets of Arpaio's alleged abuse of power have included or currently include: Phil Gordon, Phoenix Mayor;[64] Dan Saban, Arpaio's 2004 and 2008 opponent for the office of Sheriff of Maricopa County;[64] Terry Goddard, Arizona Attorney General;[64] David Smith, Maricopa County Manager;[64] The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors;[64] Barbara Mundell, Maricopa Superior Court Presiding Judge;[64] Anna Baca, former Maricopa Superior Court Presiding Judge;[66] Gary Donahoe, Maricopa Superior Court Criminal Presiding Judge[64] Daniel Pochoda, ACLU attorney;[64] Sandra Dowling, former Maricopa County School Superintendent;[65] Mike Lacy, Editor, Phoenix New Times.[65]
To date (July 10, 2010) of the above only Sandra Dowling has been successfully prosecuted.[65] Indicted on 25 felony counts, Dowling eventually pled guilty to patronage for giving a summer job to her daughter, a single class 2 misdemeanor which was not among the original counts, although as part of the plea bargain she also agreed to recuse herself from the Maricopa County Regional School District. Dowling has since filed suit, alleging negligence, malicious prosecution, abuse of process and several constitutional violations.[67]

Additionally, his pet state's attorney, Andrew Thomas just finished giving closing arguments in his disbarment procedure for filing criminal charges against political rivals, including child rape charges (with no complaining witness) solely for the purpose of discrediting, harassing and embarrassing them.

soonerhubs
12/27/2011, 08:57 AM
Paul is just another crackpot rightwinger who somehow got elected. Back on the gold standard? His number one position is aborition. He is just another typical politician trying to win favor with his party.



Efforts to fund abortion ranks among stupidest policies
One thing I believe for certain is that the federal government should never tax pro-life citizens to pay for abortions. The constant effort by the pro-choice crowd to fund abortion must rank among the stupidest policies ever, even from their viewpoint. All they accomplish is to give valiant motivation for all pro-life forces as well as the antitax supporters of abortion to fight against them.
Source: Liberty Defined, by Rep. Ron Paul, p. 6 , Apr 19, 2011



what about my rights? I don't care if my hard earned tax dollars go to fund abortion. Do i get to choose where my tax dollars go? NO! But anti-choice wingnuts should be able to?




Define life at conception in law, as scientific statement

On the right-to-life issue, I believe, I’m a real stickler for civil liberties. It’s academic to talk about civil liberties if you don’t talk about the true protection of all life. So if you are going to protect liberty, you have to protect the life of the unborn just as well.

I have a Bill in congress I certainly would promote and push as president, called the Sanctity of Life Amendment. We establish the principle that life begins at conception. And someone says, ‘oh why are you saying that?’ and I say, ‘well, that’s not a political statement -- that’s a scientific statement that I’m making!“

I know we’re all interested in a better court system and amending the constitution to protect life. But sometimes I think that is dismissing the way we can handle this much quicker, and my bill removes the jurisdiction of the federal courts from the issue of abortion, if a state law says no abortion, it doesn’t go to the supreme court to be ruled out of order

Source: Speeches to 2008 Conservative Political Action Conference , Feb 7, 2008


radical far rightwingnut position, how do you know its viable? Another politician forcing a political position on science. We had eight long ignorant years of that crap.



Live within our means and start paying down the deficit now

We’re told that this war is going to go on for a long, long time. That means that the next generation--the burden is being placed on these young people. That is why the college kids are coming out. Because they’re getting ripped off. We have undermined their liberties, we’re giving them a foreign policy where it’s their lives on the line, the threat of a draft is coming for men and women as this war is likely to spread--and what are they inheriting? Less freedom and a lot of debt! Entitlements up to 60 trillion dollars and they can’t pay it. A group of young people going into the work force which is smaller than the ones who are in retirement. The baby boomers are retiring and they’re going to demand what they put into the system and it’s just not there. What we need to do is not only live within our means, but start paying down the deficit, and offer an opportunity at least for the next generation to get out.
Source: Speeches to 2008 Conservative Political Action Conference , Feb 7, 2008

Check the date...............HIS party was blowing it up for eight long years. I don't see increased defense spending mentioned. Typical republican hypocrite.

We may just have differences in philosophy, and I respect that. However, your name calling and snide remarks tend to reflect other socio-emotional issues that would perhaps transcend a political debate.

A few points:
1) I feel that if pro-choice folks feel like funding abortions, they should definitely donate to such a cause, and I am quite certain they are free to do so.
Your red herring argument about your "right to choose where your tax dollars go" can be said for any policy that requires funding. If you pay less taxes then you are free to spend more money on abortions, and isn't that what you want?

2) He firmly believes that he has scientific evidence that life begins at conception. If that makes him a crackpot, then fine. However if you think this type of bill will go through the various checks and balances, then perhaps I'm wasting my time making my points.

3) I actually find his statements to be complaining about wars, and if you know much about Ron Paul, you know that he is against the war-mongering. Lumping him with the rest of the Republican party is a mistake.

The name calling and anger reflected in your posts is amusing though, so keep it coming if it helps with your own self-gratification.

Midtowner
12/27/2011, 10:52 AM
Maricopa Paid Former Ariz Judge $100K to Settle Claim re Ex-County Attorney, Sheriff Arpaio


In the first settlement of some $125 million in claims made by Maricopa County, Ariz., officials who say they suffered damages because of alleged off-the-rails prosecution and litigation by Sheriff Joe Arpaio and ex-County Attorney Andrew Thomas, the county has agreed to pay $100,000 to a retired judge.

Former Superior Court Judge Kenneth Fields had initially sought $1.75 million in a defamation and abuse of process claim contending that the two retaliated against him for adverse rulings by naming him as a defendant in a civil racketeering case, the Arizona Republic reports.

An apparent confidentiality provision precluded comment by Fields and his attorney. However, county records confirm the settlement, the newspaper says, and a private practitioner who is overseeing alternative dispute resolution for Maricopa notes that the settlement is minor relative to the amount sought..

"It's a very small amount of money . . . it was a fraction of the cost of defense," said attorney Steve LaMar, noting that the county has been "reaching out, trying to settle some of the lawsuits that we thought we could for a small amount of money early on, and to save an amount of money. It's case-by-case."

At last report, Andrew Thomas, the former county county attorney, was facing a legal ethics trial after an out-of-state lawyer brought in by the state supreme court to investigate him recommended that he be disbarred.

Associated Press and Arizona Republic articles earlier this month detail the status of the case against Thomas and two former deputy county attorneys. A trial is scheduled to begin Sept. 12.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/maricopa_paid_retired_ariz_judge_100k_to_settle_cl aim_re_ex-county_attorney/

Claim of a Federal Corruption Investigation Backfires


In March, Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas and Sheriff Joe Arpaio withdrew their controversial federal racketeering lawsuit against several judges, county officials and others. But not without fireworks, including some that blew up in their faces.

On March 11, Arpaio and Thomas formally withdrew the nasty suit, citing assurances that the U.S. Justice Department’s Public Integrity Section would “review the matter.” And that afternoon—accompanied by their lawyer, Robert Driscoll—the two announced that a federal investigation was under way.

Driscoll, now in the Washington, D.C., offices of Alston & Bird, had served as deputy assistant attorney general in the Civil Rights Division during the first few years of the George W. Bush administration. And Arpaio implied that Driscoll’s connections had assured a federal review of the sheriff and prosecutor’s long-standing claims of corruption among his political enemies.

The next day Driscoll got a scathing letter (PDF) from Raymond Hulser, PIN’s acting chief, chastising him for making more out of their conversation than was there. Copies found their way to Phoenix news organizations that same afternoon.

Hulser reminded Driscoll that they had spoken only briefly and that he had expected a written summary of the matter, not a huge dump of thousands of paper and electronic documents. “That production was uncalled for, and we do not intend to review the entire file,” Hulser wrote.

Hulser also was taken aback that a brief and general phone conversation with Driscoll had been used in unexpected ways: “In these circumstances, I was dismayed to learn that your mere referral of information to the Public Integrity Section was cited and relied upon in a pleading in federal court and then used as a platform for a press conference."

Justice Department officials had scant reason to favor Driscoll and his clients, anyway.

Since early last year Driscoll has represented Arpaio in a federal investigation of alleged civil rights violations in the arrest and detention of suspected illegal immigrants.

Last May, Driscoll wrote the DOJ to complain about the probe, saying that with the scrutiny coming so soon in a new administration, “it is difficult not to speculate that politics played a role in the decision” to investigate.

The investigations continue, separate from another federal grand jury looking at alleged abuses of power by Thomas and Arpaio.



http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/claim_of_a_federal_corruption_investigation_backfi res/

In short, it's kind of hard to play the victim when you're giving as bad as you're getting. That said, do I doubt that there are some excesses and overstepping by the Maricopa County Democrats? I'm sure they're just as bad. The DoJ needs to get involved here and do its damned job.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/27/2011, 11:38 AM
3 posts now and nothing to answer the following:

Do you doubt that he's pursued investigations against political rivals?

Do you doubt that he's gotten his pet state's attorney to file charges against them?

Do you deny that except for one who plead out to a misdemeanor of patronage, that none of these charges have ever stuck?

All of this is from Wikipedia and is sourced:



Additionally, his pet state's attorney, Andrew Thomas just finished giving closing arguments in his disbarment procedure for filing criminal charges against political rivals, including child rape charges (with no complaining witness) solely for the purpose of discrediting, harassing and embarrassing them.Shameful! You're one of those lawyers who have given the profession its reputation. Prayers(continued) and condolences.

Midtowner
12/27/2011, 11:49 AM
4....

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/27/2011, 12:11 PM
4....I have already given answers to your silly and distracting/misleading questions.

Midtowner
12/27/2011, 01:27 PM
I have already given answers to your silly and distracting/misleading questions.

No, you answered nothing and called me a pinko.

5...

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2011, 01:56 PM
His political enemies have been harrassing him for years. He has sought to uphold the laws regarding illegal immigration, and they don't like that, and do everything they can to try to destroy Arpaio. I am amazed he has been ble to withstand the onslaught. I think you probably REALLY know that, and either don't want to admit it ...

The tentacles of the Left ave VERY far-reaching. I'm sure you know that too, and I would estimate, are quite pleased about it.

Rush, you're wearing blinders. Tentacles aren't a characteristic of the Left. Independent of political left/right leanings, they are a characteristic of government officials who let a bit of power go to their heads and start going by their own rules.

This is about Sheriff Joe's tentacles. This is about detaining Latinos with a "probable cause" based on speaking Spanish and looking like they might be from another country.

This is about failing to use tentacles to properly invesigate child molestations, even when a suspect is identified. If there's any truth to this, he's no better than the Jerry Sanduskys of the world.

And leaving a Latino veteran to die after a taser treatment doesn't help.



Rush, Sheriff Joe's power trip is out of hand. Sheriff Joe's got to solve the illegal immigration problem? What next? Are you gonna let every Barney Fife dig in your trash trying to find evidence that you are cheating on your income taxes? After all, the IRS isn't doing its job if there are millions who fudge on their income or deductions.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/27/2011, 02:12 PM
Rush, you're wearing blinders. Tentacles aren't a characteristic of the Left. Independent of political left/right leanings, they are a characteristic of government officials who let a bit of power go to their heads and start going by their own rules.

This is about Sheriff Joe's tentacles. This is about detaining Latinos with a "probable cause" based on speaking Spanish and looking like they might be from another country.

This is about failing to use tentacles to properly invesigate child molestations, even when a suspect is identified. If there's any truth to this, he's no better than the Jerry Sanduskys of the world.

And leaving a Latino veteran to die after a taser treatment doesn't help.



Rush, Sheriff Joe's power trip is out of hand. Sheriff Joe's got to solve the illegal immigration problem? What next? Are you gonna let every Barney Fife dig in your trash trying to find evidence that you are cheating on your income taxes? After all, the IRS isn't doing its job if there are millions who fudge on their income or deductions.We are not at all surprised that you believe the above.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/27/2011, 02:27 PM
Sheriff Joe has been a target of the Left for a LONG time. The objective is to not enforce our immigration laws, and to REMOVE, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, ANY ATTENTION TO THEIR ENFORCEMENT. They were successful at removing State Senate President Pearce, who was active in fighting illegal immigration, and Arpaio is the most visible and famous person left who pursues the enforcement of those laws. The Leftists want him gone, and they have the power to achieve that. He's just a domino in the line.

okie52
12/27/2011, 02:30 PM
Rush, you're wearing blinders. Tentacles aren't a characteristic of the Left. Independent of political left/right leanings, they are a characteristic of government officials who let a bit of power go to their heads and start going by their own rules.

This is about Sheriff Joe's tentacles. This is about detaining Latinos with a "probable cause" based on speaking Spanish and looking like they might be from another country.

This is about failing to use tentacles to properly invesigate child molestations, even when a suspect is identified. If there's any truth to this, he's no better than the Jerry Sanduskys of the world.

And leaving a Latino veteran to die after a taser treatment doesn't help.



Rush, Sheriff Joe's power trip is out of hand. Sheriff Joe's got to solve the illegal immigration problem? What next? Are you gonna let every Barney Fife dig in your trash trying to find evidence that you are cheating on your income taxes? After all, the IRS isn't doing its job if there are millions who fudge on their income or deductions.

Probable cause for holding people that can only speak spanish sounds very logical.

I have shredders so barney can dig away. Does Sheriff Joe have a responsibility to investigate crimes in the illegal community? He would still be better than the sanduckys but not the Paternos.

Did Sheriff Joe taser someone and personally let them die?

Sheriff Joe only has to solve illegal immigration for his county since obviously the feds won't do it.

Midtowner
12/27/2011, 02:31 PM
Sheriff Joe has been a target of the Left for a LONG time. The objective is to not enforce our immigration laws, and to REMOVE, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, ANY ATTENTION TO THEIR ENFORCEMENT. They were successful at removing State Senate President Pearce, who was active in fighting illegal immigration, and Arpaio is the most visible and famous person left who pursues the enforcement of those laws. The Leftists want him gone, and they have the power to achieve that. He's just a domino in the line.

Sounds like this:

Help! Help! I'm filing bogus criminal charges against my political rivals, including accusing them of child rape (without a complaining witness) and illegally profiling brown people! Help! I'm being oppressed!

Arpaio is a POS. Your playing the victim card for him is just hilarious though. I do agree that the feds ought to be doing a better job guarding the border and that if border security was all this was about, I'd be a big Arpaio fan. That said, he's a dirty politician who has abused his office in the worst possible ways to score political points.

Midtowner
12/27/2011, 02:34 PM
Probable cause for holding people that can only speak spanish sounds very logical.

Sounds good to me too. That sounds like pretty good probable cause, actually. It's not racial oppression as there's no linguistic characteristic associated with race.


Did Sheriff Joe taser someone and personally let them die?

Meh, I agree. That's kind of weak sauce. I'd be curious to know whether Arpaio's policies led to that, but I would really doubt the official Maricopa County Sheriff policy is to let folks die in custody. Lapses in judgment happen.


Sheriff Joe only has to solve illegal immigration for his county since obviously the feds won't do it.

If it was that simple, I'd be a fan, but nothing is ever quite so simple.

Ton Loc
12/27/2011, 02:43 PM
If it was that simple, I'd be a fan, but nothing is ever quite so simple.

Nothing is more simple than Sheriff Joe is a dick. Usually not viewed as terrible quaility in his profession, but his constant spotlight-grabbing/attention-whoring thing makes me want to see him shot down.

Midtowner
12/27/2011, 02:44 PM
Nothing is more simple than Sheriff Joe is a dick. Usually not viewed as terrible quaility in his profession, but his constant spotlight-grabbing/attention-whoring thing makes me want to see him shot down.

I don't think I'd literally like to see him shot. But imprisoned for the rest of his life? I'm sure he's earned it.

okie52
12/27/2011, 02:46 PM
If it was that simple, I'd be a fan, but nothing is ever quite so simple.

I don't know about Joe's vendetta's against rivals but he wouldn't be the first to abuse his power in this manner. And, that part for Joe I would find reprehensible since you can basically become a dictator. Most of his other measures I have seen have been pretty good.

Ton Loc
12/27/2011, 02:55 PM
I don't think I'd literally like to see him shot. But imprisoned for the rest of his life? I'm sure he's earned it.

I didn't mean shot in the actual sense, but it'd be a fitting end to his story if he was thrown into those pink outfits and tossed into the general pop at a prison he helped create.

Turd_Ferguson
12/27/2011, 03:00 PM
I didn't mean shot in the actual sense, but it'd be a fitting end to his story if he was thrown into those pink outfits and tossed into the general pop at a prison he helped create.Man, you have really become a dick...oh wait, you were one when you first joined the board.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/27/2011, 03:07 PM
Man, you have really become a dick...oh wait, you were one when you first joined the board.Nobody brings out the Lefts' hate any better than Arpaio, except maybe Palin and/or Limbaugh.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2011, 03:31 PM
Sheriff Joe has been a target of the Left for a LONG time. The objective is to not enforce our immigration laws, and to REMOVE, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, ANY ATTENTION TO THEIR ENFORCEMENT. They were successful at removing State Senate President Pearce, who was active in fighting illegal immigration, and Arpaio is the most visible and famous person left who pursues the enforcement of those laws. The Leftists want him gone, and they have the power to achieve that. He's just a domino in the line.

DOJ removed Pearce? I thought the local residents recalled him.

Ton Loc
12/27/2011, 03:39 PM
Man, you have really become a dick...oh wait, you were one when you first joined the board.

You're ruining the good name of turd ferguson.


Nobody brings out the Lefts' hate any better than Arpaio, except maybe Palin and/or Limbaugh.

The guy is an attention whore a-hole who abuses his power and at the least breaks a few laws along the way. His entire life’s philosophy revolves around being a dick. That’s when I’d like to see people be put into their rightful place.

He speaks in the third person and gave himself the name Sherriff Joe. That was enough for me. Everything else is just gravy.
I’m not left or right. I just don’t like *******s.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2011, 03:40 PM
Probable cause for holding people that can only speak spanish sounds very logical.

.

It's not illegal to speak Spanish. And contrary to your belief, one can be in the country legally without being fluent in English.

If a driver has no license, fine. But detainment based on speaking Spanish should get the gov't official fired.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2011, 03:53 PM
No one responded to a question I had in another thread. Does the new Arizona law mandate an officer check ID's of passengers if he/she thinks they might be illegally present, and that thinking is based on their speaking Spanish and/or looks only?

And if a teenaged-looking passenger does not have a state issued ID, may he/she be detained as a result?

okie52
12/27/2011, 03:58 PM
It's not illegal to speak Spanish. And contrary to your belief, one can be in the country legally without being fluent in English.

If a driver has no license, fine. But detainment based on speaking Spanish should get the gov't official fired.

Sure you can be in this country without speaking English but you better have your passport, visa, etc...to verify it.

Unless they have changed citizenship requirements in the last few years a requirement for citizenship was speaking english.

Rather than firing a government official they should be given quotas to meet and bonuses for exceeding them.

Midtowner
12/27/2011, 04:06 PM
It's not illegal to speak Spanish. And contrary to your belief, one can be in the country legally without being fluent in English.

In Arizona, someone not being able to speak English is probable cause for a police officer to believe that a crime (being here illegally) is being committed, which is enough for an officer under AZ and federal law to inquire. You don't seem to understand the definition of probable cause, probable cause doesn't itself have to be illegal, it just has to be enough to give the officer cause to believe something illegal is happening.

And firing a police officer for something that isn't illegal is ridiculous. Not speaking English doesn't make you part of a suspect class, but living here and not speaking the language does make you an a-hole and an idiot.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2011, 04:16 PM
Sure you can be in this country without speaking English but you better have your passport, visa, etc...to verify it.



Well, if Sheriff Joe's officers audit your tax return, you better have all your paperwork to verify it.


Yes, I understand folks have to be able to prove legal presence WHEN NECESSARY. It is not necessary because one speaks Spanish or looks foreign.

Midtowner
12/27/2011, 04:33 PM
speaks Spanish or looks foreign.

That's not what anyone's saying. No one (or maybe some of the ignorant rednecks might think it's okay to arrest someone who just "looks" foreign, but that's clearly illegal) really thinks you can arrest someone for looking foreign.

But not being able to speak English is pretty good probable cause to believe someone isn't here legally.

okie52
12/27/2011, 05:01 PM
Well, if Sheriff Joe's officers audit your tax return, you better have all your paperwork to verify it.


Yes, I understand folks have to be able to prove legal presence WHEN NECESSARY. It is not necessary because one speaks Spanish or looks foreign.


Well, if Sheriff Joe is AUDITING my tax return I would have plenty of reasons to be worried.

Speaking Spanish isn't a crime unless that is your only language. Then only an idiot wouldn't believe there is no probable cause.

Who is questioning about looking foreign?...that could fit about anybody.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2011, 05:08 PM
That's not what anyone's saying. No one (or maybe some of the ignorant rednecks might think it's okay to arrest someone who just "looks" foreign, but that's clearly illegal) really thinks you can arrest someone for looking foreign.

But not being able to speak English is pretty good probable cause to believe someone isn't here legally.

The judge noted that the sheriff has said that even without authority to enforce federal immigration laws, his officers can detain people based upon their speech or they appear to be from another country.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2011, 05:15 PM
Well, if Sheriff Joe is AUDITING my tax return I would have plenty of reasons to be worried.

Speaking Spanish isn't a crime unless that is your only language. Then only an idiot wouldn't believe there is no probable cause.

Who is questioning about looking foreign?...that could fit about anybody.

!!!

What about recent immigrants or those who immigrate when they are over 35? Many aren't fluent in English. That's a crime?

FYI, Okie, nobody immigrates as a new citizen. You have to be a resident alien first for 3 or 5 years before you are even eligible to apply. That's when English requirements kick in. And resident aliens are not required to become citizens.

okie52
12/27/2011, 05:19 PM
!!!

What about recent immigrants or those who immigrate when they are over 35? Many aren't fluent in English. That's a crime?

FYI, Okie, nobody immigrates as a new citizen. You have to be a resident alien first for 3 or 5 years before you are even eligible to apply. That's when English requirements kick in. And resident aliens are not required to become citizens.

Then if they are resident aliens and can't speak English they better have their papers with them. We are talking about probable cause, not conviction of a crime.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/27/2011, 06:00 PM
Then if they are resident aliens and can't speak English they better have their papers with them. We are talking about probable cause, not conviction of a crime.

The issue is the basis for even asking for their papers or ID. If a cop is getting a donut during his break, and wonders if the Spanish speaking customer standing next to him is legal, should the law require the officer to ask for the customer's ID?

okie52
12/27/2011, 06:23 PM
The issue is the basis for even asking for their papers or ID. If a cop is getting a donut during his break, and wonders if the Spanish speaking customer standing next to him is legal, should the law require the officer to ask for the customer's ID?

No, and I am not aware that it does require him to investigate. However, should they be stopped in their vehicle and unable to speak english then they should have to have their papers (or DL). And an officer should certainly be suspicious of that scenario.