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okie52
12/9/2011, 12:40 PM
Gingrich fights back on immigration; signs pledge to build fence along Mexican border


Former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich on Thursday shot back at criticism he’s faced over his position on immigration by signing a pledge promising to build a fence along the U.S.-Mexican border by the end of 2013.

“In 25 years, we haven’t been able to build a fence on the border because we’ve not been a serious country,” Gingrich told about 500 employees in the cafeteria of Nationwide Insurance. “It takes serious leadership doing serious things. This is an example. There are dozens of things like this that have to get done for us to rebuild this country.”

The pledge by Americans for Securing the Border, a national advocacy group dedicated to stopping the flow of illegal immigration and enhancing national security along the U.S.-Mexican border, calls for presidential candidates to support and speedily expedite the construction of a secure, multi-layered fence across the southern border by the end of 2013.

Gingrich is seeking the 2012 Republican nomination for president and is the front-runner in Iowa, according to two recent polls.

He said if elected president, America will have “absolute control” of its border by the end of 2013. He’d suspend all federal regulations that would prevent completion of the border in one year. If necessary, he’d move half of the 23,000 U.S. Department of Homeland Security employees from Washington, D.C., to Texas, Arizona and New Mexico to control the border.

But he also joked about the issue with Nationwide employees, by comparing the tracking of illegal immigrants to the online tracking of 24 million UPS and FedEx packages each day while they’re moving.

“You have the federal government, which cannot find 11 million illegal immigrants while they’re sitting still,” Gingrich said to laughter and applause. “So one of my proposals is that we mail a package to every person who’s here illegally and then when they’re delivered, you pull it up in the computer, you know exactly where they are and it was done at no extra cost.” Gingrich later emphasized that was not a serious proposal.

Yet his signing of the pledge came as he is taking heat over his position on immigration. During CNN’s Nov. 22 foreign policy debate, he indicated that law-abiding, tax-paying illegal immigrants who had been in the country for a number of years should be able to become citizens.

In Cedar Falls on Wednesday, Minnesota U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann, who was the first candidate to sign the pledge and has portrayed herself as the only true conservative in the race, characterized Gingrich’s position as granting amnesty.

“What Newt Gingrich proposes is to make legal, overnight, over 11 million illegal workers in the United States,” Bachmann said. “He needs to take the heat.”

Van D. Hipp Jr., chairman of Americans for Securing the Border, came to Gingrich’s defense. Hipp said Gingrich approached his group about signing the pledge before the Nov. 22 debate. “Speaker Gingrich is no ‘Johnny come lately’ when it comes to border security,” Hipp said.

Former U.S. Rep. Duncan Lee Hunter, R-Calif., who was chairman of the U.S. House Armed Services Committee from 2003 until 2007, this week told Hipp that Gingrich “deserves credit” for his efforts that resulted in the first secure double fence being built along the 14-mile stretch south of San Diego along the U.S.-Mexico border.

Americans for Securing the Border is less concerned about illegal immigrants already in the country. “Our focus is on securing the southern border,” Hipp told IowaPolitics.com. “There are a lot of other side issues that will have to be addressed. But right now, we’ve got to stop the hemorrhaging on our southern border. It starts with the fence. If we, as a people and as a country, if we had dealt with this issue before, we wouldn’t have the problems we’ve got today.”

The estimated cost of building a 700-mile fence along the Mexican border is $49 billion, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service. The U.S.-Mexico border covers 2,000 miles, but Hipp said the focus is on the 854 miles along the nation’s major smuggling corridors. The ultimate goal is to extend that fence from Brownsville, Texas, to the Pacific Ocean.

Former Pennsylvania U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum, former Godfather’s Pizza CEO Herman Cain and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney also have advocated for building a border fence to stop the flow of people entering the United States illegally.

But Texas Gov. Rick Perry and Texas U.S. Rep. Ron Paul have said that a fence is not the answer. Perry has said that building a border-length fence would take “10 to 15 years and $30 billion” and would not be cost-effective.

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IBleedCrimson
12/9/2011, 03:41 PM
"he indicated that law-abiding, tax-paying illegal immigrants who had been in the country for a number of years should be able to become citizens."

I thought he wasn't advocating citizenship, just some sort of new legal status that would allow some illegals to stay and work, but not vote?

Have I misunderstood something?

Serge Ibaka
12/9/2011, 05:04 PM
A fence won't do anything. It's an ignorant waste of money (and what's worse, fence-proponents know this; it's simply political posturing).

Operation Gatekeeper (the U.S.'s attempt at stopping border-hopping in Southern Cal by building a huge wall & expanding border patrol and surveillance) actually backfired; the population of illegal immigrants in Southern Cal actually increased because it was suddenly too expensive and dangerous for Mexicans to repeatedly cross back and forth across the border.

SicEmBaylor
12/9/2011, 05:06 PM
A fence won't do anything. It's an ignorant waste of money (and what's worse, fence-proponents know this; it's simply political posturing).
I agree with this.

oudivesherpa
12/9/2011, 05:12 PM
Is that fence to keep them (illegals) out or us in?

Dale Ellis
12/9/2011, 05:13 PM
I thought he wasn't advocating citizenship, just some sort of new legal status that would allow some illegals to stay and work, but not vote?

Have I misunderstood something?

You are correct.

Dale Ellis
12/9/2011, 05:14 PM
A fence won't do anything.

agreed and that's why you dont' have one around your house correct? That's also why your house doesn't have walls, because they don't work. Do you have property lines?

Serge Ibaka
12/9/2011, 05:24 PM
agreed and that's why you dont' have one around your house correct? That's also why your house doesn't have walls, because they don't work. Do you have property lines?

The difference: a fence will cost millions in tax-payer money, and it won't do anything to deter illegal immigration on our southern borders. So...yeah.

okie52
12/9/2011, 05:27 PM
The difference: a fence will cost millions in tax-payer money, and it won't do anything to deter illegal immigration on our southern borders. So...yeah.

Well that is outright nonsense. Of course it will deter some illegals but not as effectively as landmines.

soonercruiser
12/9/2011, 05:33 PM
I agree with this.

Sorry! But I disagree! It is one piece of the immigration puzzle.
What has it cost this country in the way of manpower, salalries, benefits, hardware and technology, law enforcement and immigration system in the various states, AND benefits to illegal immigrants????

A real, barrier fence could already have been built; we could have put many construction workers into good jobs (created jobs), and by now be saving money! Let alone be using the extra law enforcement to good use IN THEIR STATES!

You can't do what you never start!
This country has solved much larger problems in less time - when we had the will to do it!

StoopTroup
12/9/2011, 05:33 PM
I think we need to talk about what kind of fence.

We need something that will go down deeper than bedrock and as high as the Statue of Liberty. :D ;)

http://www.darkgovernment.com/images/drug-tunnel.gif

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2010/11/4/1288882382984/Map---drugs-tunnel-across-001.gif

Serge Ibaka
12/9/2011, 05:35 PM
Well that is outright nonsense. Of course it will deter some illegals

Holy cow, you really are just that simple. Some of these people travel thousands of miles to only GET TO the border; they pack themselves onto crappy busses and travel through strange and dangerous territories. They pay strange, violent, renegade coyotes lots of money (just to pack and stow themselves into awful little spaces). Some walk confusedly through the desert for days. Some make this trip while very pregnant and in real need of medical attention. Do you think that a ***&^&* wall makes a difference? It's not like they're just walking to the local market and saying to one another "Hey, Jose. Do you want to go to America today? That might be fun. Thank goodness that there's no fence along the border; otherwise, I would probably just go home and play Call of Duty."

This has nothing to do with legislation or border security; it has everything to do with the 1st world bordering the 3rd world along an artificial 2,000 mile-long line.

okie52
12/9/2011, 05:37 PM
I think we need to talk about what kind of fence.

We need something that will go down deeper than bedrock and as high as the Statue of Liberty. :D ;)

http://www.darkgovernment.com/images/drug-tunnel.gif

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2010/11/4/1288882382984/Map---drugs-tunnel-across-001.gif

Those dam illegals.... always being innovative in breaking the law.

okie52
12/9/2011, 05:39 PM
Holy cow, you really are just that simple. Some of these people travel thousands of miles to only GET TO the border; they pack themselves onto crappy busses and travel through strange and dangerous territories. They pay strange, violent, renegade coyotes lots of money (just to pack and stow themselves into awful little spaces). Some walk confusedly through the desert for days. Some make this trip while very pregnant and in real need of medical attention. Do you think that a ***&^&* wall makes a difference? It's not like they're just walking to the local market and saying to one another "Hey, Jose. Do you want to go to America today? That might be fun. Thank goodness that there's no fence along the border; otherwise, I would probably just go home and play Call of Duty."

This has nothing to do with legislation or border security; it has everything to do with the 1st world bordering the 3rd world along an artificial 2,000 mile-long line.

I am sorry you missed the sarcasm. I prefer landmines, troops, drones and alligators to eliminate this problem.

okie52
12/9/2011, 05:40 PM
This has nothing to do with legislation or border security; it has everything to do with the 1st world bordering the 3rd world along an artificial 2,000 mile-long line.

Well lets get more 3rd worlders over here to make our country better.

Serge Ibaka
12/9/2011, 05:44 PM
I am sorry you missed the sarcasm. I prefer landmines, troops, drones and alligators to eliminate this problem.

You can't say something ignorant and then claim that you were being sarcastic.

Isn't that against some sort of message-board code?

okie52
12/9/2011, 05:52 PM
You can't say something ignorant and then claim that you were being sarcastic.

Isn't that against some sort of message-board code?

I hope not. I've been getting by with it for years.

badger
12/9/2011, 05:56 PM
Remember back when Mexico was such a stable country that it hosted the Olympics in the 60s?

It is amazing how a country with one of the richest men in the world that border the best country in the world is such a land of have-nots and crime and people trying their best to get out.

They should have everything in the world to be successful --- a lot of land, a lot of beaches, a lot of hard working people, a lot of history, and a strong neighbor that could serve as a political ally.

And yet, Mexico is the country people want to escape.

Sad. :(

soonercruiser
12/9/2011, 06:00 PM
I am sorry you missed the sarcasm. I prefer landmines, troops, drones and alligators to eliminate this problem.

A great place to test the new 3,000 pound bunker busters!

soonercruiser
12/9/2011, 06:01 PM
Remember back when Mexico was such a stable country that it hosted the Olympics in the 60s?

It is amazing how a country with one of the richest men in the world that border the best country in the world is such a land of have-nots and crime and people trying their best to get out.

They should have everything in the world to be successful --- a lot of land, a lot of beaches, a lot of hard working people, a lot of history, and a strong neighbor that could serve as a political ally.

And yet, Mexico is the country people want to escape.

Sad. :(

A good synopsis Badger!
:very_drunk:

SicEmBaylor
12/9/2011, 06:06 PM
Sorry! But I disagree! It is one piece of the immigration puzzle.
What has it cost this country in the way of manpower, salalries, benefits, hardware and technology, law enforcement and immigration system in the various states, AND benefits to illegal immigrants????

A real, barrier fence could already have been built; we could have put many construction workers into good jobs (created jobs), and by now be saving money! Let alone be using the extra law enforcement to good use IN THEIR STATES!

You can't do what you never start!
This country has solved much larger problems in less time - when we had the will to do it!

A barrier fence just isn't going to do much aside from providing a physical barrier against which we can deploy Federal agents, drones, landmines, attack helicopters, the full might of the US Army, etc. etc. etc.

cleller
12/9/2011, 07:30 PM
Either throw their employers in jail, or get ready to tiptoe past the Zeta neighborhoods.

AlboSooner
12/13/2011, 10:34 AM
agreed and that's why you dont' have one around your house correct? That's also why your house doesn't have walls, because they don't work. Do you have property lines?

That's also why burglaries happen, because houses don't have walls and houses don't have fences?

Can we all agree that as long as you live in a prosperous country there will be illegal immigration?

A fence won't solve a thing. You don't give the illegal immigrants citizenship. That would be a slap in the face to all who did it legally.

You give illegals a permission to re-enter, and you register them so they can pay taxes. There is a lot of money lost because of the underground economy. Before you do this, you have to be absolutely ruthless with criminals and drug dealers.

As long as big US companies profit from undocumented labor, nothing will be done about illegal immigration.

AlboSooner
12/13/2011, 10:38 AM
Remember back when Mexico was such a stable country that it hosted the Olympics in the 60s?

It is amazing how a country with one of the richest men in the world that border the best country in the world is such a land of have-nots and crime and people trying their best to get out.

They should have everything in the world to be successful --- a lot of land, a lot of beaches, a lot of hard working people, a lot of history, and a strong neighbor that could serve as a political ally.

And yet, Mexico is the country people want to escape.

Sad. :(

I've said this for years.

It's not in our interest for Mexico to be wealthy though. They'd become a competitor in the region. When the US subsidized corn, Mexican farmers couldn't compete with the low priced US corn, and went bankrupt.

soonercruiser
12/13/2011, 01:54 PM
That's also why burglaries happen, because houses don't have walls and houses don't have fences?

Can we all agree that as long as you live in a prosperous country there will be illegal immigration?

A fence won't solve a thing. You don't give the illegal immigrants citizenship. That would be a slap in the face to all who did it legally.

You give illegals a permission to re-enter, and you register them so they can pay taxes. There is a lot of money lost because of the underground economy. Before you do this, you have to be absolutely ruthless with criminals and drug dealers.

As long as big US companies profit from undocumented labor, nothing will be done about illegal immigration.

I've got to agree with this, as part of a bigger immigration fix.
But, then I'd get criticized for providing amnesty, wouldn't I?

Dale Ellis
12/13/2011, 02:29 PM
The difference: a fence will cost millions in tax-payer money, and it won't do anything to deter illegal immigration on our southern borders. So...yeah.

Oh, and you've got some sort of evidence to back your claim that it "won't do anything to deter illegal immigration". Or are you just shooting from the hip on that one? No wait, let me guess, they interviewed some wetbacks and they all said a fence wouldn't deter them.

Dale Ellis
12/13/2011, 02:32 PM
That's also why burglaries happen, because houses don't have walls and houses don't have fences?

Can we all agree that as long as you live in a prosperous country there will be illegal immigration?

A fence won't solve a thing. You don't give the illegal immigrants citizenship. That would be a slap in the face to all who did it legally.

You give illegals a permission to re-enter, and you register them so they can pay taxes. There is a lot of money lost because of the underground economy. Before you do this, you have to be absolutely ruthless with criminals and drug dealers.

As long as big US companies profit from undocumented labor, nothing will be done about illegal immigration.

So you're telling me their would be no more break-ins if our homes didn't have fences and locked doors? Then tell me, why do you lock your door every time you leave your house?

Dale Ellis
12/13/2011, 02:37 PM
A barrier fence just isn't going to do much aside from providing a physical barrier against which we can deploy Federal agents, drones, landmines, attack helicopters, the full might of the US Army, etc. etc. etc.

fences, doors and walls don't work, or didn't you get that memo from the liberal talking points?
Hell, we need to tell the boys down at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary in McAlester to stop locking the cell doors and tear down the fences because they don't do anything to deter the inmates from trying to escape.

NormanPride
12/13/2011, 02:46 PM
I prefer the saying "Good neighbors make good fences" myself.

SicEmBaylor
12/13/2011, 03:11 PM
fences, doors and walls don't work, or didn't you get that memo from the liberal talking points?
Hell, we need to tell the boys down at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary in McAlester to stop locking the cell doors and tear down the fences because they don't do anything to deter the inmates from trying to escape.
There is a substantial difference in fencing in a small amount of property (like a back yard) or walling in a prisoner and expecting a 2k mile long fence to contain determined people. Let's say you have a rather sizable ranch in Oklahoma or Texas, even if you fence the entire property is it really going to keep someone out if they want in? Hardly.

I'm not saying don't build a fence, but expecting it to have much of an impact on border security is absolutely silly. The best thing it does is provide a tangible/physical barrier on/at which we can deploy other means of containing illegals.

Dale Ellis
12/13/2011, 03:26 PM
I prefer the saying "Good neighbors make good fences" myself.

tell that to the fine folks from Mexico pal.

SicEmBaylor
12/13/2011, 03:28 PM
I've got to agree with this, as part of a bigger immigration fix.
But, then I'd get criticized for providing amnesty, wouldn't I?
Yes, because, you are.

Aren't you late for your LULAC meeting with SJS and Serge?

Dale Ellis
12/13/2011, 03:48 PM
I'm not saying don't build a fence, but expecting it to have much of an impact on border security is absolutely silly.

based on what other than your opinion?

SicEmBaylor
12/13/2011, 03:51 PM
based on what other than your opinion?
Based on its stellar success rate thus far?

NormanPride
12/13/2011, 04:29 PM
tell that to the fine folks from Mexico pal.


fence   [fens] Show IPA noun, verb, fenced, fenc·ing.
noun
1. a barrier enclosing or bordering a field, yard, etc., usually made of posts and wire or wood, used to prevent entrance, to confine, or to mark a boundary.
2. Informal . a person who receives and disposes of stolen goods.
3. the place of business of such a person.
4. the act, practice, art, or sport of fencing.
5. skill in argument, repartee, etc.

On the contrary, my dear Mr. Ellis, they provide a perfect example of my statement. ;)

Dale Ellis
12/13/2011, 05:10 PM
You can't say something ignorant and then claim that you were being sarcastic.

Isn't that against some sort of message-board code?

simple way to solve the problem, institute a "shoot to kill on site" law. You want to sneak across, fine, we see you doing it, we're going to plant one in your dome. I can promise you, after a few dozen were popped, the rest would get the picture. Problem solved.

Dale Ellis
12/13/2011, 05:12 PM
Based on its stellar success rate thus far?

No one has ever said a fence is full proof, but it beats the hell out of doing nothing, which apparently is what some are advocating. And don't bore me with all this tough talk about what we "SHOULD" do once we've allowed them to sneak in.

SicEmBaylor
12/13/2011, 05:34 PM
No one has ever said a fence is full proof, but it beats the hell out of doing nothing, which apparently is what some are advocating. And don't bore me with all this tough talk about what we "SHOULD" do once we've allowed them to sneak in.
I never said we shouldn't do anything. I just said the fence itself doesn't do much.

Dale Ellis
12/14/2011, 03:50 PM
I never said we shouldn't do anything. I just said the fence itself doesn't do much.

So then do you advocate taking it down? Unless you have some sort of data showing the number of illegals we would have with the current boarder system as opposed to what we would have without it, your comment is nothing more than pure speculation.

SicEmBaylor
12/14/2011, 04:23 PM
So then do you advocate taking it down? Unless you have some sort of data showing the number of illegals we would have with the current boarder system as opposed to what we would have without it, your comment is nothing more than pure speculation.
I advocate no such thing. I neither want to remove the existing fence nor cease building one where it does not currently exist. My only point is that a border security fence does little to reduce illegal immigration.

Turd_Ferguson
12/14/2011, 04:28 PM
I have removed all the doors from my house just knowing that nobody will try to enter since there is no type of barrier. Sure, It's cold but I have a great HVAC and a fireplace. I used to be concerned about my wife, since she works at night and sleeps during the day with nobody home. Now? Pffft!...I scoff at the thought of somebody wanting to enter my property illegally without my consent...

49r
12/14/2011, 06:32 PM
You know, the house/door/fence analogy is really ****ed up, and here's why.

Let's pretend the US is your house, and Mexico is the rest of the world where the baddies live. Except your house CURRENTLY has no doors or fences, and you're contemplating adding them. Here's the problem.

Your house, compared to the rest of the world is basically filled with gold bars. And it's huge. The rest of the world is basically a giant wasteland of nothing. No food no water, no nothing. Because you have it all in your house.

Now, the Mexicans can get into your house by sneaking in under the surveillance you have already installed (which is pretty thorough and effective, they do this by being very innovative and VERY persistent. They'll even happily risk death to get in. Now, you CAN build a fence, lord knows you can afford it (your house is filled with gold bars after all). But in order to build a fence that is big enough to keep all the baddies out by all means, you'll be spending most of the gold bars you have in the first place. More than the baddies themselves cost you. So what do you do?

Now, here's where the analogy falls apart. YOUR house is NOT filled with gold bars, and the baddies aren't risking their lives to get the **** you have in your house, because it isn't any better that the **** they have in theirs already.







Find a better analogy dip****.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/14/2011, 06:42 PM
I have removed all the doors from my house just knowing that nobody will try to enter since there is no type of barrier. Sure, It's cold but I have a great HVAC and a fireplace. I used to be concerned about my wife, since she works at night and sleeps during the day with nobody home. Now? Pffft!...I scoff at the thought of somebody wanting to enter my property illegally without my consent...

I'd be careful Turd. Someone might sneak in and clean your house.

Turd_Ferguson
12/14/2011, 09:10 PM
I can't come up with anything to counter you guy's that are making perfect since with the wall thing so I'm gonna spew some retarded **** just to make myself feel better because y'all are making my vag hurt...At least your honest...

AlboSooner
12/14/2011, 09:22 PM
So you're telling me their would be no more break-ins if our homes didn't have fences and locked doors? Then tell me, why do you lock your door every time you leave your house?

You're agreeing with my point. Just because there is a wall around your house it doesn't mean that burglaries won't happen. If somebody wanted to get in your house bad enough they would. It's the same thing with the Southern border: they want to get in really bad. No need in spending a huge amount of money we don't have so the wall idea can be proven wrong. Look the Chinese would advise us to give up building walls. Theirs is just a tourist attraction now.

AlboSooner
12/14/2011, 09:25 PM
fences, doors and walls don't work, or didn't you get that memo from the liberal talking points?
Hell, we need to tell the boys down at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary in McAlester to stop locking the cell doors and tear down the fences because they don't do anything to deter the inmates from trying to escape.

It's not the same thing. The US-Mexico border is almost 2k miles long. Just think about that for a second. People are not saying walls are useless all the time, but people are saying a 2k mile long fence is useless. It will cost billions to build (we will need Mexican to build it), and it will not keep up anybody who is hell-bent to come here.

cleller
12/15/2011, 09:15 AM
From a story in the Oklahoman today about a big drug bust. Here's the list of suspects:
Eduardo Higuera-Sanchez

Jose Alfredo Higuera-Sanchez

Mario Espinosa-Alvarez

Saul Sanchez

Rudolpho Eduardo-Espinoza

Lorena Raquel Chavez-Vega

Jaime Jose Torres

Joe Curtis Bernard Jr.

Chris Edwin Thrift

Andre Fuentes-Herrera

Sharon Pribble-Martin

Steven H. Hunter

Carlos Trejo Castillo

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-drug-bust-nets-nearly-40-pounds-of-cocaine-meth/article/3631827#ixzz1gc2HXdIN

Could the fact that most are Hispanic serve to suggest that not everyone streaming in here is running FROM the drug violence in Mexico, or maybe attempting to import it? I'm sure there is some reason I am a heel for viewing it this way, though.

Dale Ellis
12/15/2011, 09:38 AM
It's not the same thing. The US-Mexico border is almost 2k miles long. Just think about that for a second. People are not saying walls are useless all the time, but people are saying a 2k mile long fence is useless. It will cost billions to build (we will need Mexican to build it), and it will not keep up anybody who is hell-bent to come here.

the same way police and advanced security systems wont deter anybody who is hell bent to rob a bank, from robbing that bank. Are you advocating that we cut back on the number of police officers we have in order to save a buck? Just applying your logic to the argument.

NormanPride
12/15/2011, 10:58 AM
the same way police and advanced security systems wont deter anybody who is hell bent to rob a bank, from robbing that bank. Are you advocating that we cut back on the number of police officers we have in order to save a buck? Just applying your logic to the argument.

But that's wrong, you idiot. What you're implying is that Albo wants to remove current border security when you say that it's like cutting back on police officers.

A more accurate analogy would be to say he doesn't want to build large walls and barbed wire fences around banks to prevent bank robbers. The difference is that in both cases we already have personnel, but we do not have a physical barrier.

Dale Ellis
12/15/2011, 11:42 AM
But that's wrong, you idiot. What you're implying is that Albo wants to remove current border security when you say that it's like cutting back on police officers.

A more accurate analogy would be to say he doesn't want to build large walls and barbed wire fences around banks to prevent bank robbers. The difference is that in both cases we already have personnel, but we do not have a physical barrier.

Let me rephrase the question your honor, "do you feel that we should not have more police officers because the ones we have don't prevent criminals who are "hell bent" on committing crimes from committing them?" Call me an idiot all you want, but it's HIS logic. Also, can any of you provide any case study, research, date or evidence to support your claim that building an additional fence will not do anything to curb the infestation of wetbacks into our country?

NormanPride
12/15/2011, 11:54 AM
What about your statement was his logic?

Dale Ellis
12/15/2011, 01:23 PM
What about your statement was his logic?

Well he stated that if someone is hell bent on getting into this country, another fence wont stop them. So by that logic if someone is hell bent on committing a crime adding additional police won't stop them from committing a crime. It's the same concept. Again, can anyone provide anything other than their opinion to prove that building another fence will do no good?

NormanPride
12/15/2011, 03:37 PM
Can you provide anything other than your opinion that it WOULD do good?

And no, adding more personnel is completely different than just building a structure between one place and another. Or are you implying that our police are as dumb and effective as walls at preventing crime? Because just about every house I know has a fence around the back yard, but you see criminals hopping them all the time on COPS. If that house was patrolled by officers you'd be damn sure there would be no crime around it.

Dale Ellis
12/15/2011, 05:30 PM
And no, adding more personnel is completely different than just building a structure between one place and another.

So show me the plane that calls for an unmanned fence?




So you're all for putting feet on the ground to patrol the boarder (since you just stated)
If that house was patrolled by officers you'd be damn sure there would be no crime around it. as opposed to any type of barrier along with additional boarder patrol?

NormanPride
12/15/2011, 05:50 PM
I have absolutely not voiced any opinion on this whole matter. I am just having fun poking holes in obvious logical fallacy and poor comprehension of opposing points.

SicEmBaylor
12/15/2011, 05:54 PM
Obtuse poster is obtuse.

SicEmBaylor
12/15/2011, 05:57 PM
So show me the plane that calls for an unmanned fence?
You can't show what does not exist. There is no plan to man the border in numbers sufficent enough to signficantly decrease the number of illegals. Building a fence does nothing but make people feel like they're coming up with a solution. More to the point, it actually makes the situation worse. By supporting a fence that does little to curb illegal immigration, pro-immigration reformers can then point to the fence and say "Hey, we tried walling off the border and it didn't work. Comprehensive immigration reform is the only way to yadda yadda yadda." No thank you.

Again, I support a fence. But a fence isn't going to do jack **** unless it is combined with a strong multi-front attack on the problem.