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soonercruiser
12/9/2011, 12:03 PM
THOMAS JEFFERSON


At 5, began studying under his cousins tutor.

At 9, studied Latin, Greek and French.

At 14, studied classical literature and additional languages.

At 16, entered the College of William and Mary.

At 19, studied Law for 5 years starting under George Wythe.

At 23, started his own law practice.

At 25, was elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses.

At 31, wrote the widely circulated "Summary View of the Rights of British America " and retired from his law practice.

At 32, was a Delegate to the Second Continental Congress.

At 33, wrote the Declaration of Independence .

At 33, took three years to revise Virginia ’s legal code and wrote a Public Education bill and a statute for Religious Freedom.

At 36, was elected the second Governor of Virginia succeeding Patrick Henry.

At 40, served in Congress for two years.

At 41, was the American minister to France and negotiated commercial treaties with European nations along with Ben
Franklin and John Adams.

At 46, served as the first Secretary of State under George Washington.

At 53, served as Vice President and was elected president of the American Philosophical Society.

At 55, drafted the Kentucky Resolutions and became the active head of Republican Party.

At 57, was elected the third president of the United States .

At 60, obtained the Louisiana Purchase doubling the nation’s size.

At 61, was elected to a second term as President.

At 65, retired to Monticello .

At 80, helped President Monroe shape the Monroe Doctrine.

At 81, almost single-handedly created the University of Virginia and served as its first president.

At 83, died on the 50th anniversary of the Signing of the Declaration of Independence .

John F. Kennedy held a dinner in the white House for a group of the brightest minds in the nation at that time. He made this statement: "This is perhaps the assembly of the most intelligence ever to gather at one time in the White House with the exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe .
Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property - until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

MountainOkie
12/9/2011, 12:23 PM
1. Remind some of the sacred inalienable rights granted by God to each American;

2. Remind others that the true sovereignity of the government rests in its people and not in special interests;

3. Remind still others who would sit in judgment of him that had he never written the words "All men are created equal" a good portion of our people would still be under the yoke of slavery.

He is the man who brought freedom to a world lost in tyranny. Thank God for Thomas Jefferson.

Ton Loc
12/9/2011, 12:59 PM
Thomas Jefferson would have a heart attack, stroke, and **** himself all at the same time if you plucked him out of time and dropped him off in the present.

KantoSooner
12/9/2011, 04:11 PM
Let's also be clear that he valued the success of the French Revolution above that of the success of the USA.
And he could not balance his own books....with over 17,000 acres of prime Virginia plantation land and 400 slaves working it for him. (he had to sell his private library to congress to keep the bill collectors at bay...an insider deal that raised quite a stink at the time.)

I like him just fine, but he needed Adamses and Washingtons and Jays and Hamiltons and others to balance him out.

MountainOkie
12/9/2011, 04:45 PM
Let's also be clear that he valued the success of the French Revolution above that of the success of the USA.
And he could not balance his own books....with over 17,000 acres of prime Virginia plantation land and 400 slaves working it for him. (he had to sell his private library to congress to keep the bill collectors at bay...an insider deal that raised quite a stink at the time.)

I like him just fine, but he needed Adamses and Washingtons and Jays and Hamiltons and others to balance him out.

"Every human being must be viewed according to what they are good for; for none of us--no not one--is perfect. And were we to love none who had imperfections this world would be a desert for our love."

Thomas Jefferson

Serge Ibaka
12/9/2011, 05:00 PM
He'd probably conceive a child with his slave.

SicEmBaylor
12/9/2011, 05:09 PM
I like him just fine, but he needed Adamses and Washingtons and Jays and Hamiltons and others to balance him out.

This is absolute nonsense. He didn't need Adams and Washington to balance him at all. He needed (and had) Madison and Monroe to make his political theories (to the extent possible) into practical policy. Jefferson had a hard time managing his books, because Jefferson was not a micro-manager. He was a political theorist. He dealt with politics on the macro level.

I find it humorous beyond words that Cruiser is seriously trying to align himself in anyway with Jefferson. As a committed Jeffersonian, I almost take offense.

SicEmBaylor
12/9/2011, 05:11 PM
He'd probably conceive a child with his slave.
Distasteful, but at least it exponentially improves the slave bloodline.

SicEmBaylor
12/9/2011, 05:13 PM
I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say he valued the success of the French Revolution over the American Revolution. I think the opposite is fairly clear; however, he had more hope for the success of the French Revolution than he did the American.

Thomas Jefferson was incredibly radical. I don't claim to support all of his ideas, but as a whole I side with his emphasis on individual liberty over that of society and government. Contemporary conservatives would be horrified by some of his positions. "Generational sovereignty" being a perfect example.

KantoSooner
12/9/2011, 05:39 PM
Wasn't Tommy the governor of Virginny who up and ran away when the British came calling? refused to call out the militia? Could be wrong, but I recall something along those lines.

Sicem, if you're looking for a cogent defense of individual liberty by someone who actually knew his craft, I direct you to JS Mill's 'On Liberty'. Tommy was a good man and a hell of writer, but his political 'theory' didn't surpass the rank of 'advanced dilettante'. The whole 'nation of yeoman farmers' thing, for instance, in addition to implying less than perfect freedom of choice in 'pursuit of happiness', showed complete ignorance or incomprehension of the rising tide of industrial ferment that surrounded him.

Didn't he do some thought experiment wherein he literally cut 'God' out of the Bible? Interesting idea, and he certainly had a supple mind, but it's the sort of thing a college freshman would do, not the project of a mature 'thinker'.

soonercruiser
12/9/2011, 05:42 PM
This is absolute nonsense. He didn't need Adams and Washington to balance him at all. He needed (and had) Madison and Monroe to make his political theories (to the extent possible) into practical policy. Jefferson had a hard time managing his books, because Jefferson was not a micro-manager. He was a political theorist. He dealt with politics on the macro level.

I find it humorous beyond words that Cruiser is seriously trying to align himself in anyway with Jefferson. As a committed Jeffersonian, I almost take offense.

There he goes again!
SicEm with a personal attack!!!!!
Jefferson would not have done that!
:pride:

If I were to highlight any of that list of accomplishments, it would be the things that Jefferson did at an early age, without the public schrool system, without Roseta Stone, or the gubment!

Serge Ibaka
12/9/2011, 05:43 PM
Distasteful, but at least it exponentially improves the slave bloodline.

Depends how you look at it; some might prefer to say that they're not the descendants of slave-owners ;)

MountainOkie
12/9/2011, 06:02 PM
He'd probably conceive a child with his slave.

And yet, ironically, he conceived the very idea that would eventually be taken up by the abolitionists of the 19th Century to free the slaves. 140,000 Union soldiers sacrificed their lives in the American Civil War under the proposition that "All Men are created Equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain Inalienable Rights..." to free those Americans who still languished in slavery.

Again, during the civil rights era he was quoted by Martin Luther King "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

But yes, I see your point. We should throw out all the good that his ideas accomplished, all the millions of men that his proposition freed, all the untold good that came from this concept. It is all dross, chaff, vanity; and a man convicted of such a sin may never be forgiven even though he may set in motion something which frees the entire world. :rolleyes:

SicEmBaylor
12/9/2011, 06:03 PM
Sicem, if you're looking for a cogent defense of individual liberty by someone who actually knew his craft, I direct you to JS Mill's 'On Liberty'.
No need, I'm well versed. I tried to make Mill's work the cornerstone of every debate case I ever wrote (when possible).

Tommy was a good man and a hell of writer, but his political 'theory' didn't surpass the rank of 'advanced dilettante'.
If Jefferson were simply an "advance dilettante" of political theory then I'd be interested to know your opinion of other political theorists of the time...at least the ones in the United States. By Mill's standards? Perhaps, but his ideas were the best of his generation in the United States. And, to be fair, Jefferson was (as you call him) an "advanced dilettante" with nearly all his pursuits.

The whole 'nation of yeoman farmers' thing, for instance, in addition to implying less than perfect freedom of choice in 'pursuit of happiness'
He had a highly idealistic image of the 'yeoman farmer', but I'm not sure how it implies less than perfect freedom of choice. I suppose Jefferson's opposition to large cities, industrialization, and capitalization could be seen as "limiting choice", but I don't think Jefferson ever advocated any sort of lawful ban on someone pursuing an industrial career or living in the city. His point was always, essentially, that large cities and industrialization represent a threat to liberty and should thus be avoided. He was highly distrustful, but I'm confident that Jefferson would never have wanted to limit someone's ability to pursuit their happiness.

...showed complete ignorance or incomprehension of the rising tide of industrial ferment that surrounded him.
He was not ignorant and fully comprehended the rising tide of industrialization. The worst you could say is that he was indifferent. The reality is that he was highly distrustful for many of the same reasons that people are distrustful of Big Business and the centralized banking system today. If anything, he was remarkably prophetic about the dangers posed to individual liberty by the rising tide of industrialization and urbanization.


Didn't he do some thought experiment wherein he literally cut 'God' out of the Bible? Interesting idea, and he certainly had a supple mind, but it's the sort of thing a college freshman would do, not the project of a mature 'thinker'.
He didn't cut God out, but the Jefferson Bible was written from a Deist's point of view that there is no personal relationship between God and man and that God does not interfere in the daily lives of man (all of which I agree with). It's the Bible minus the theology.

MountainOkie
12/9/2011, 07:04 PM
The whole 'nation of yeoman farmers'

Didn't this stem from Locke's parochial view of the state of nature?

SicEmBaylor
12/9/2011, 07:11 PM
Didn't this stem from Locke's parochial view of the state of nature?
Essentially, yes. The "yeoman farmer" lives (in Jefferson's view) as close to the original state of nature as possible and is thus more free due to the absence of government or the oppression of social institutions.

cleller
12/9/2011, 07:26 PM
Don't you think he'd probably have sat around all day and played video games and smoked weed if given the opportunity? That's what all the cool people do.

hawaii 5-0
12/9/2011, 09:52 PM
Quote- "At 55, drafted the Kentucky Resolutions and became the active head of Republican Party."


Jefferson was the 1st President from the Democratic Party.


(Just from memory.) Maybe back then it was the Republican-Democratic Party.

Lincoln was the 1st Republican President.


5-0

SicEmBaylor
12/9/2011, 10:54 PM
Quote- "At 55, drafted the Kentucky Resolutions and became the active head of Republican Party."


Jefferson was the 1st President from the Democratic Party.

(Just from memory.) Maybe back then it was the Republican-Democratic Party.

Lincoln was the 1st Republican President.


5-0
Other way around. Jefferson was the first President from the Democratic-Republican party which was formed from the Anti-Federalist party/movement which eventually became the Democrat Party.

Also, little known fact, Lincoln was a blood-thirsty tyrant and war criminal.

bigfatjerk
12/10/2011, 09:05 AM
Let's also be clear that he valued the success of the French Revolution above that of the success of the USA.

He wanted a European revolution similar to the one we had in America which was actually fairly bloodless to start mostly done because of the pins of the likes of Sam Adams and a few others. We did have a war with the British but we weren't cutting the heads off our own citizens. When the French Revolution got to that stage you won't find many of Jefferson's writings really supporting their revolution after that.


Jefferson was the 1st President from the Democratic Party.

The modern democrat party is nothing like that of the one Jefferson devised. In fact neither of the 2 major parties resemble any of Jefferson's beliefs.


Also, little known fact, Lincoln was a blood-thirsty tyrant and war criminal.

Tyrant is probably accurate. But I don't think he was more blood thirsty than any one else in the country was at that time. But again you can trace that all back to acts the government made for probably nearly half a century.

SouthCarolinaSooner
12/10/2011, 12:32 PM
Also, little known fact, Lincoln was a blood-thirsty tyrant and war criminal.
:D But, he was better than the alternative

diverdog
12/10/2011, 01:03 PM
This is absolute nonsense. He didn't need Adams and Washington to balance him at all. He needed (and had) Madison and Monroe to make his political theories (to the extent possible) into practical policy. Jefferson had a hard time managing his books, because Jefferson was not a micro-manager. He was a political theorist. He dealt with politics on the macro level.

I find it humorous beyond words that Cruiser is seriously trying to align himself in anyway with Jefferson. As a committed Jeffersonian, I almost take offense.

Sicem:

What exactly is a "committed Jeffersonian"?

diverdog
12/10/2011, 01:06 PM
Tyrant is probably accurate. But I don't think he was more blood thirsty than any one else in the country was at that time. But again you can trace that all back to acts the government made for probably nearly half a century.

How on god's green earth can you call Lincoln a tyrant? Is this some more southern revisionist history?

Frozen Sooner
12/10/2011, 02:24 PM
For one, Jefferson would advocate for a 100% estate tax. He was a huge opponent of dynastic wealth.

diverdog
12/10/2011, 03:14 PM
For one, Jefferson would advocate for a 100% estate tax. He was a huge opponent of dynastic wealth.

He also was a huge supporter of free public education and the rewriting of the constitution every generation. A very complex man.

As a side note we were at his home this past spring and we go there about every other year on our way home from Lynchburg Virginia.

SicEmBaylor
12/10/2011, 03:32 PM
He also was a huge supporter of free public education and the rewriting of the constitution every generation. A very complex man.

His idea of generational sovereignty went well beyond simply re-writing the constitution every generation. He believed saddling a generation with the laws, conventions, and social institutions of the previous generation to be a form of tyranny. Conceptually, I agree with him although it's lubricious to even consider a way to do that.

But yeah, Jefferson wanted everything thrown out. Every law, every existing social institution, the constitution, governmental framework...you name it. He thought every generation should have the freedom to start from scratch.

SicEmBaylor
12/10/2011, 03:36 PM
For one, Jefferson would advocate for a 100% estate tax. He was a huge opponent of dynastic wealth.


He also was a huge supporter of free public education and the rewriting of the constitution every generation. A very complex man.

As a side note we were at his home this past spring and we go there about every other year on our way home from Lynchburg Virginia.

Also, keep in mind that Jefferson could be highly inconsistent in his beliefs. I almost think that Jefferson would have considered consistency to be a form of constraint on his liberty of thought.

Jefferson would feed these ideas to Madison who, god help him, would try to turn them into some sort of palatable policy position (with mixed success obviously). And then Jefferson would turn around and say or do something that completely undermined Madison's efforts.

Jefferson was a hard man to deal with but God I love him.

Eielson
12/10/2011, 04:09 PM
I love Alexander Hamilton.

KantoSooner
12/10/2011, 04:51 PM
at the end of the day, I'd go with George Washington. He's been denigrated as being the dumb jock in the room for most of our history, but he had subtlety of thought (read his farewell address) and a commitment to real government of real men in the real world that I find increasingly admirable as I get older ..... and have to deal with that pesky objective reality more and more.

But, what can I say? I'd have been a Federalist. You have a union? You have a union. You're in or you're out. No tap backs. Articles of confederation were given a shot and failed. We passed a constituion creating a union, not a voluntary sewing circle.

AlboSooner
12/10/2011, 09:45 PM
at what age did he own slaves?

diverdog
12/11/2011, 07:24 AM
Also, keep in mind that Jefferson could be highly inconsistent in his beliefs. I almost think that Jefferson would have considered consistency to be a form of constraint on his liberty of thought.

Jefferson would feed these ideas to Madison who, god help him, would try to turn them into some sort of palatable policy position (with mixed success obviously). And then Jefferson would turn around and say or do something that completely undermined Madison's efforts.

Jefferson was a hard man to deal with but God I love him.

Sicem:

Have you ever been to his home or his library? If not you should go.

Jefferson is my second favorite president. Teddy Roosevelt will always be my favorite because I really identify with the man and I think he was so much larger than life. IMHO Jefferson and Teddy were the two smartest men to ever grace the White House. I think they would have been personal friends and probably political enemies had they lived at the same time.

diverdog
12/11/2011, 07:26 AM
I love Alexander Hamilton.

I can't tell if you are kidding or not.

Hamilton maybe one of the greatest reasons America is such an economic power because he believed in taxing and borrowing to build up the infra structure in this nation so that we could be come an industrial giant. He did not want to stay an agrarian nation that was envisioned by Jefferson

pphilfran
12/11/2011, 07:52 AM
His idea of generational sovereignty went well beyond simply re-writing the constitution every generation. He believed saddling a generation with the laws, conventions, and social institutions of the previous generation to be a form of tyranny. Conceptually, I agree with him although it's lubricious to even consider a way to do that.

But yeah, Jefferson wanted everything thrown out. Every law, every existing social institution, the constitution, governmental framework...you name it. He thought every generation should have the freedom to start from scratch.

Lubricious? A new brand of sex lubricant?

SanJoaquinSooner
12/11/2011, 11:40 AM
Any record of Jefferson cheating his business partners?

Tulsa_Fireman
12/11/2011, 12:35 PM
Did we already mention that he'd probably be banging black chicks?

I think I missed the part about him banging black chicks.