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View Full Version : The most accurate description of the OWS crowd to date.



Zin
11/30/2011, 06:43 PM
http://youtu.be/cJD8pZiRIzs

It is good to see some people have the OWS crowd figured out. *** ******s.

Serge Ibaka
11/30/2011, 09:12 PM
Is that really him? I only listened to the first 1.5 minutes, but:

1. Sure, this is easy for a multi-millionaire to say.

2. Of course the very-richest Americans pay most of the taxes; how could we make up that much money otherwise (the extra money that the hand-to-mouth crowd could fork over wouldn't amount to much). Get over it, wealthy folks: if you're rich, the masses need to use your money--the quality of life of all Americans (rich people included) depends upon it.

SCOUT
11/30/2011, 09:14 PM
: if you're rich, the masses need to use your money-

Wow.

Serge Ibaka
11/30/2011, 09:20 PM
Wow.
Oh Please. It's a give-and-take thing. How civil would things stay if the hand-to-mouth-crowd did not have schools, jails, cops, firemen, housing, food, etc?

Carolla should be happy that the masses worship his celebrity in stead of stealing his things. Cry into your satin pillow, dou*hbag (and I hardly think that he was being antagonistic or anything [at least during the first 1.5 minutes]; I like the guy okay, but his ideas are misguided here).

If the rich want the poor to pay more taxes, then they better accept that the poor are going to buy less of their sh** (and steal more sh**). The masses drive the economy: rich people can only buy so many TVs.

SCOUT
11/30/2011, 09:22 PM
Oh Please. It's a give-and-take thing. How civil would things stay if the hand-to-mouth-crowd did not have schools, jails, cops, firemen, housing, food, etc?

Carolla should be happy that the masses worship his celebrity in stead of stealing his things.

If the rich want the poor to pay more taxes, then they better accept that the poor are going to buy less of their sh** (and steal more sh**).

So he should pay more in taxes or it will be taken by force? At least you are consistent.

Serge Ibaka
11/30/2011, 09:27 PM
So he should pay more in taxes or it will be taken by force? At least you are consistent.

Well, if all of the poor folks' extra buying-money is going to Uncle Sam, rising crime-rates are the next logical progression. Not to mention: who is going to do all of the buying that our fragile economy depends on.

SCOUT
11/30/2011, 09:28 PM
Well, if all of the poor folks' extra buying-money is going to Uncle Sam, rising crime-rates are the next logical progression. Not to mention: who is going to do all of the buying that our fragile economy depends on.
Isn't spending less at least a part of the logical progression or does it go straight to theft?

Serge Ibaka
11/30/2011, 09:31 PM
Isn't spending less at least a part of the logical progression or does it go straight to theft?

Maybe you have more faith in our people than I do, but: funny things happen when you raise a consuming, possession-obsessed culture.

SCOUT
11/30/2011, 09:42 PM
Maybe you have more faith in our people than I do, but: funny things happen when you raise a consuming, possession-obsessed culture.
I don't know that I have that much more faith than you do. I just have a different opinion on the solution. A consuming, posession-obsessed culture isn't fixed by having someone else fuel their addiction.

Serge Ibaka
11/30/2011, 09:45 PM
I don't know that I have that much more faith than you do. I just have a different opinion on the solution. A consuming, posession-obsessed culture isn't fixed by having someone else fuel their addiction.

But doesn't that "addiction" otherwise fuel the $$$-addiction of the 1%. It's a self-perpetuating cluster-fu**; I hate it.

I know this though: the rich cannot have their cake and eat it too. The balance is fragile.

hawaii 5-0
11/30/2011, 09:48 PM
Still waiting to see all those folks with the huge tax breaks actually hiring the unemployed.


5-0

SCOUT
11/30/2011, 09:52 PM
Still waiting to see all those folks with the huge tax breaks actually hiring the unemployed.


5-0
Our company is about 147 people and we have hired 37 since June. We are a small privately owned company.

okie52
11/30/2011, 10:01 PM
Still waiting to see all those folks with the huge tax breaks actually hiring the unemployed.


5-0

Huge tax breaks? Are you referring to all Americans that are still enjoying the Bush tax cuts?

hawaii 5-0
11/30/2011, 10:02 PM
Our company is about 147 people and we have hired 37 since June. We are a small privately owned company.


Great job!!!!

5-0

hawaii 5-0
11/30/2011, 10:03 PM
Huge tax breaks? Are you referring to all Americans that are still enjoying the Bush tax cuts?


No, I'm referring to the huge tax breaks enjoyed by the super wealthy.

5-0

okie52
11/30/2011, 10:05 PM
No, I'm referring to the huge tax breaks enjoyed by the super wealthy.

5-0

So you are good with your tax break just not the wealthier peoples?

Zin
11/30/2011, 10:09 PM
I like the point he makes that when he was young and you saw someone driving by in a nice care, they would point them out and say, "That is Mr. Jenkins, he worked hard and built his own business, you should try to be like him." versus today where the same person would be looked at with contempt.

hawaii 5-0
11/30/2011, 10:11 PM
So you are good with your tax break just not the wealthier peoples?

I'm happy with my tax break.

Wealthier people should be taxed more.

Poor people should be taxes less.

It's really pretty simple.

5-0

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 10:16 PM
Maybe you have more faith in our people than I do, but: funny things happen when you raise a consuming, possession-obsessed culture.

Like they will pepper spray a crowd just to get to the X-Box first!
Then a liberal prosecutor won't prosecute them.....self defense????
:moody:

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 10:18 PM
No, I'm referring to the huge tax breaks enjoyed by the super wealthy.

5-0

Like george Soros and Warren Buffet???
(Obama's buddies)

Serge Ibaka
11/30/2011, 10:29 PM
Like they will pepper spray a crowd just to get to the X-Box first!
:moody:

Exactly.

okie52
11/30/2011, 10:45 PM
I'm happy with my tax break.

Wealthier people should be taxed more.

Poor people should be taxes less.

It's really pretty simple.

5-0

Wealthier people are taxed more and have been for quite some time.

The Clinton tax rates gave us a surplus (well, we got a surplus with them anyway) and the
Bush tax cuts reduced ALL taxpayers rates.

Now surely you believe in Obama's stirring words of "shared sacrifice". Surely you support all of the Bush tax cuts being removed so we together can help restore this country. Just think how quickly we can be on the road to fiscal responsibility if ALL of those HUGE tax breaks are removed.

SCOUT
12/1/2011, 12:47 AM
But doesn't that "addiction" otherwise fuel the $$$-addiction of the 1%. It's a self-perpetuating cluster-fu**; I hate it.

I know this though: the rich cannot have their cake and eat it too. The balance is fragile.
The addiction of the 1% is the least of my concerns. I am far from being in that group. You have an obvious disdain for that group and I think it is clouding your response.

Looking to punish those who have the most is a misplaced solution, in my opinion. It is a little funny if you would listen to the rest of the rant in the OP. Don't get me wrong, it is indeed a rant but he has some points that are worthy of consideration. The most notable is the Rolls Royce scenario mentioned above.

Success is not something that should be admonished and punished. It should be something to strive for.

sappstuf
12/1/2011, 01:01 AM
Wealthier people are taxed more and have been for quite some time.

The Clinton tax rates gave us a surplus (well, we got a surplus with them anyway) and the
Bush tax cuts reduced ALL taxpayers rates.

Now surely you believe in Obama's stirring words of "shared sacrifice". Surely you support all of the Bush tax cuts being removed so we together can help restore this country. Just think how quickly we can be on the road to fiscal responsibility if ALL of those HUGE tax breaks are removed.

Okie, wasn't the Bush tax cuts around 3.7 trillion or something like that? Of that, what was the breakdown of money to "rich" versus middle class?

okie52
12/1/2011, 01:08 AM
Okie, wasn't the Bush tax cuts around 3.7 trillion or something like that? Of that, what was the breakdown of money to "rich" versus middle class?

As I recall Sapp 700,000,000,000 was for the wealthy and the 3,000,000,000,000 was for the middle class. Obviously smart people would prefer to go after that 700,000,000,000.

Serge Ibaka
12/1/2011, 01:43 AM
The addiction of the 1% is the least of my concerns. I am far from being in that group. You have an obvious disdain for that group and I think it is clouding your response.

Looking to punish those who have the most is a misplaced solution, in my opinion. It is a little funny if you would listen to the rest of the rant in the OP. Don't get me wrong, it is indeed a rant but he has some points that are worthy of consideration. The most notable is the Rolls Royce scenario mentioned above.

Success is not something that should be admonished and punished. It should be something to strive for.

Nobody is arguing this--being rich is great, and it certainly should not be punished (have I implied these things?). I do not have disdain for rich people; I simply acknowledge their responsibility in keeping our entire society afloat.

And it is their responsibility in this society (globalized, mass-producing & mass-consuming as it is). If we were a village-centered, agrarian people, then the discussion would be different. But things are different, and our social-institutions are primarily what keeps the money pumping (or what keeps the consuming-masses ready and able to work & purchase, as I noted above; everything falls flat without these institutions, including corporations and the gated-communities that their white-collars live in). And the only people who have the money to support these institutions are the rich. So pay your dumb taxes, lay down your heads on your comfy pillows, and sleep soundly knowing that you're getting the very best that capitalism has to offer. Holy hell.

hawaii 5-0
12/1/2011, 01:55 AM
Like george Soros and Warren Buffet???
(Obama's buddies)


Exactly those people. Halleluleah !!!! You finally get it !!!!

Even Warren Buffet has stated he should be taxed more.

5-0

GrapevineSooner
12/1/2011, 02:59 AM
I'm happy with my tax break.

Wealthier people should be taxed more.

Poor people should be taxes less.

It's really pretty simple.

5-0

Are you including those who don't already pay federal income taxes in that?

And if you think super rich people should pay more, well that's your opinion.

But even if taxed the super rich at 100% taxation, it would barely make a dent in the deficit.

sappstuf
12/1/2011, 07:43 AM
As I recall Sapp 700,000,000,000 was for the wealthy and the 3,000,000,000,000 was for the middle class. Obviously smart people would prefer to go after that 700,000,000,000.

Yes, that is right.. The "Party of Science" has long had problems with basic math.

okie52
12/1/2011, 07:57 AM
Yes, that is right.. The "Party of Science" has long had problems with basic math.

Some on this board are still working on their GED's.

Caboose
12/1/2011, 09:02 AM
Exactly those people. Halleluleah !!!! You finally get it !!!!

Even Warren Buffet has stated he should be taxed more.

5-0

The same guy who owes over a billion dollars in back taxes? The same guy who AT ANY POINT could have paid more taxes than he was obligated to and didnt?

Do you really think he believes what he said?

This again illustrates one of the fundamental problems of communicating with the modern Left. They expect you to believe things that they themselves know are untrue.
We can see by his actions that Buffet does not truly believe he should be taxed more.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 10:21 AM
Is that really him? I only listened to the first 1.5 minutes, but:

1. Sure, this is easy for a multi-millionaire to say.

2. Of course the very-richest Americans pay most of the taxes; how could we make up that much money otherwise (the extra money that the hand-to-mouth crowd could fork over wouldn't amount to much). Get over it, wealthy folks: if you're rich, the masses need to use your money--the quality of life of all Americans (rich people included) depends upon it.

How about the masses earn their own fing money? That thought ever cross that "brain" of yours?

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 10:23 AM
Exactly those people. Halleluleah !!!! You finally get it !!!!

Even Warren Buffet has stated he should be taxed more.

5-0

they pay more in taxes in one year than everyone on this message board will pay their entire life, go earn your own money and stop expecting others to support you.

hawaii 5-0
12/1/2011, 10:33 AM
they pay more in taxes in one year than everyone on this message board will pay their entire life, go earn your own money and stop expecting others to support you.


They pay more. They don't pay enough. Big difference.


5-0

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 10:46 AM
They pay more. They don't pay enough. Big difference.


5-0

according to whom, you? Get a job and stop trying to BUM money off of others.

So they pay way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way more than you will every pay in your entire life, but that's not enough because not enough of the money they've earned is finding it's way into YOUR pocket? Tell me why you are entitled to someone esle's money? Be very specific why YOU, are entitled to these peoples money?
By that logic, anyone that makes more money then you should be obligated to give you some portion of it.

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 10:53 AM
they pay more in taxes in one year than everyone on this message board will pay their entire life, go earn your own money and stop expecting others to support you.

Are you slow? Of course they pay more. 35% of 1 million is a lot more than 35% of 100K. I just wish everyone actually paid that 35%.

And the biggest wish - that the money we paid in was spent wisely.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 11:15 AM
Are you slow? Of course they pay more. 35% of 1 million is a lot more than 35% of 100K. I just wish everyone actually paid that 35%.

And the biggest wish - that the money we paid in was spent wisely.

Ironic, you ask if I'm dense then make the same point I just made? Dense much?

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 11:18 AM
again, you want more, work more, stop begging the rich.

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 11:22 AM
My point is they should pay more. But somehow, the super rich manage to pay a lower percentage of their personal taxes than I do. That's messed up.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 11:25 AM
My point is they should pay more. But somehow, the super rich manage to pay a lower percentage of their personal taxes than I do. That's messed up.

Got ya, so regardless of income, we should all pay the same percentage of our personal taxes?

Zin
12/1/2011, 11:26 AM
again, you want more, work more, stop begging the rich.

One of the problems is that these people have been convinced, either by themselves or by liberal politicians, that if anything goes wrong in their lives or they fail that it isn't their fault. Someone else is to blame. So they start pointing fingers and laying blame. In their selfish little minds, they are owed something.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 11:27 AM
My point is they should pay more

not really a point, more of an opinion. Why should they pay more, "it's not fair" isn't a viable answer.

GrapevineSooner
12/1/2011, 11:27 AM
They pay more. They don't pay enough. Big difference.


5-0

They never will, according to you.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 11:29 AM
Again, this is all begging to me. "tax the rich guy more because he's got it, then give some of it to me because I'm not smart enough, motivated enough or creative enough to earn as much as the rich guy does. It's not fair that he has more than me, so I want someone to take more of what he's got and give it to me, so I can have more stuff without having to earn the money to afford it."

Let me ask you if a super rich guy walks into Bestbuy to purchase a new TV, should he have to pay more than someone else?

I mean it's not fair the cost of that new TV is a much larger percentage of the poor guys salary than it is the rich guys, so according to your logic, the rich guy should have to pay more for it.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 11:30 AM
They never will, according to you.

Exactly, it's nothing more than begging.

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 11:32 AM
Got ya, so regardless of income, we should all pay the same percentage of our personal taxes?

Sounds good to me.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 11:34 AM
Sounds good to me.

So the guy that earns 12k a year should be in the same tax bracket as the guy who earns 11 million a year?

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 11:40 AM
So the guy that earns 12k a year should be in the same tax bracket as the guy who earns 11 million a year?

Yes.

yermom
12/1/2011, 11:45 AM
Adam Corolla talks a big game for a guy that sits around talking about jacking off on the radio to make money

i'm not sure i have heard the OWS talk about raising taxes.

they started out at Wall Street. the guys that made a killing wrecking our economy. instead of going to jail, they got rich. they have our government in their pocket.

to make money, CEOs slash jobs and/or move to China/India/Mexico wherever just to make a few bucks. they make short sighted deals to make money this quarter, and get their bonus, and get hired somewhere else to leave their company, and the country in ashes. why do they care? they got paid.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 11:49 AM
Yes.

So if the rich guy has to pay say 48%, so should the guy who earns 12k?

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 11:51 AM
Adam Corolla talks a big game for a guy that sits around talking about jacking off on the radio to make money

i'm not sure i have heard the OWS talk about raising taxes.

they started out at Wall Street. the guys that made a killing wrecking our economy. instead of going to jail, they got rich. they have our government in their pocket.

to make money, CEOs slash jobs and/or move to China/India/Mexico wherever just to make a few bucks. they make short sighted deals to make money this quarter, and get their bonus, and get hired somewhere else to leave their company, and the country in ashes. why do they care? they got paid.

What's wrong with getting a bonus? You don't like the fact that your boss gives himself a big bonus yet doesn't give you a raise, then quit and get a job somewhere else, or start your own business, problem solved.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 11:54 AM
I don't understand why some folks think other folks OWE them something by virtue of the fact they have a lot. That's life, some guys can run fast, and jump high and they're in the NFL or the NBA. I wish we could figure out someway to take away part of Adrian Peterson's athleticism and give to me so I could play in the NFL too.

It's not fair he has more than me, therefore he should be forced to give some to me. QUIT begging.

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 12:01 PM
So if the rich guy has to pay say 48%, so should the guy who earns 12k?

Yep - how many more scenarios are you going to makeup?


Adam Corolla talks a big game for a guy that sits around talking about jacking off on the radio to make money

i'm not sure i have heard the OWS talk about raising taxes.

they started out at Wall Street. the guys that made a killing wrecking our economy. instead of going to jail, they got rich. they have our government in their pocket.

to make money, CEOs slash jobs and/or move to China/India/Mexico wherever just to make a few bucks. they make short sighted deals to make money this quarter, and get their bonus, and get hired somewhere else to leave their company, and the country in ashes. why do they care? they got paid.

I'm not sure what you think he is talking big about? Dude busted his *** getting to where he was and wonders why other people can't do the same. Besides, Adam is an entertainer. He's talented at spouting off on ****. That's his thing. Hell, he's about 75% right on things, the other 25% I just laugh at and chalk up to his ignorance.


What's wrong with getting a bonus? You don't like the fact that your boss gives himself a big bonus yet doesn't give you a raise, then quit and get a job somewhere else, or start your own business, problem solved.

And really Dale, I think his point was the illegal crap they pull and never get punished because they're in the governments pockets. Don't know why you have to pull the smallest thing out someone's post to make a stink about.

diverdog
12/1/2011, 12:13 PM
I don't understand why some folks think other folks OWE them something by virtue of the fact they have a lot. That's life, some guys can run fast, and jump high and they're in the NFL or the NBA. I wish we could figure out someway to take away part of Adrian Peterson's athleticism and give to me so I could play in the NFL too.

It's not fair he has more than me, therefore he should be forced to give some to me. QUIT begging.

Here is what you don't get. This massive debt that has been fueled because of the activities that were done on Wall Street have not been paid for at this time. At some point we are going to have to pay for them and that means most middle class folks will pay trillions in taxes for bailing out the rich who benefited from this mess. So when the tax bills come due and your taxes go through the roof just remember who benefited from your hard work. And here is a hint....it ain't the poor.

yermom
12/1/2011, 12:17 PM
I'm not sure what you think he is talking big about? Dude busted his *** getting to where he was and wonders why other people can't do the same. Besides, Adam is an entertainer. He's talented at spouting off on ****. That's his thing. Hell, he's about 75% right on things, the other 25% I just laugh at and chalk up to his ignorance.


normally, i think he's pretty funny, but his rant is a bit misplaced. i haven't gotten much envy out of this group in what i've seen. the parenting stuff is right on though...

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 12:32 PM
normally, i think he's pretty funny, but his rant is a bit misplaced. i haven't gotten much envy out of this group in what i've seen. the parenting stuff is right on though...

I listen to him everyday and his parent stuff is great. This rant, he gets a few things right, but the rest is just mis-placed ignorant rich guy complaining.

badger
12/1/2011, 12:35 PM
We really do need to raise taxes across the board. The people with nothing will still pay nothing, but those of us lucky enough to have jobs and wealth should expect to pay more to get out of this mess. I don't care what it takes -- a sales tax, an income tax, a property tax, a tax on unhealthy crap, whatever -- just tax us and let us factor it into living within our means like always.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 01:32 PM
Here is what you don't get. This massive debt that has been fueled because of the activities that were done on Wall Street have not been paid for at this time. At some point we are going to have to pay for them and that means most middle class folks will pay trillions in taxes for bailing out the rich who benefited from this mess. So when the tax bills come due and your taxes go through the roof just remember who benefited from your hard work. And here is a hint....it ain't the poor.

you're whole premise is based off of an illusion. In a true, free capitalist market place, these banks would have never been bailed out, they would have been allowed to rise and fall on their own merits, but the left and some on the right pi$$ed and moaned that we could not allow this to happen, so what happened, the feds robbed the private sector for generations to come in order to save what should have been failing and soon to be dead entities.

Capitalism isn't what caused this problem because in a TRUE, free market, these banks would have never been bailed out and thus the burden would not have been placed on the tax payers of this country be they rich or poor.

It's kind of like killing your parents then asking for sympathy because you're now an orphan. Taxing the rich isn't going to fix Wall Street.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 01:34 PM
We really do need to raise taxes across the board. The people with nothing will still pay nothing, but those of us lucky enough to have jobs and wealth should expect to pay more to get out of this mess. I don't care what it takes -- a sales tax, an income tax, a property tax, a tax on unhealthy crap, whatever -- just tax us and let us factor it into living within our means like always.

So why do some get to pay nothing while the ones that create the jobs, do the work and take the risks get bent over? Ya know not every "wealthy" person is a Wall Street fat cat.

badger
12/1/2011, 01:41 PM
So why do some get to pay nothing while the ones that create the jobs, do the work and take the risks get bent over? Ya know not every "wealthy" person is a Wall Street fat cat.

Can you make someone that has nothing pay what they don't have? hehe, I'm picturing small claims courts now:

Judge: You owe the plaintiff $5000.
Defendant: Ummm... I got laid off from my minimum wage job and was just foreclosed on. The wife took everything in the divorce so I have no income, no assets and no means to pay.
Judge: Bailiff, take $5000 from the defendant and give it to the plaintiff right now.
Bailiff: (searches) OK... where can I find $5000 on this broke, penniless man?
Plaintiff: MONEY!!!! Where's my MONEY?!??!?!

This is why so many of these cases end up on Judge Judy... the show pays the verdict for the parties :)

soonercruiser
12/1/2011, 01:42 PM
I don't understand why some folks think other folks OWE them something by virtue of the fact they have a lot. That's life, some guys can run fast, and jump high and they're in the NFL or the NBA. I wish we could figure out someway to take away part of Adrian Peterson's athleticism and give to me so I could play in the NFL too.

It's not fair he has more than me, therefore he should be forced to give some to me. QUIT begging.

I got AD's autograph!
That's all he was wiling to give me.
:redface:

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 01:47 PM
Can you make someone that has nothing pay what they don't have? hehe, I'm picturing small claims courts now:

Judge: You owe the plaintiff $5000.
Defendant: Ummm... I got laid off from my minimum wage job and was just foreclosed on. The wife took everything in the divorce so I have no income, no assets and no means to pay.
Judge: Bailiff, take $5000 from the defendant and give it to the plaintiff right now.
Bailiff: (searches) OK... where can I find $5000 on this broke, penniless man?
Plaintiff: MONEY!!!! Where's my MONEY?!??!?!

This is why so many of these cases end up on Judge Judy... the show pays the verdict for the parties :)

Silly chick, in your world, we would just take it from the rich judge and give it to the plaintiff, right?

Well if the guy's got a min wage job, then maybe he shouldn't have a mortgage, maybe he should have lived in an apartment.

Wife took everything in the divorce? I thought his house was foreclosed on, I thought he made min wage, he couldn't have had too much to take. Although, I'm sure she got his I phone, his big screen and his Chrysler 300. I just wonder if the $2200 rims the in-dash DVD navigation system we're included in the settlement? Poor bastard, how did he ever survive?

badger
12/1/2011, 01:48 PM
Silly boy, in your world, we would just take it from the rich judge and give it to the plantiff, right?

Silly n00b, thinking I'm a boy.

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 01:57 PM
Silly n00b, thinking I'm a boy.

lol

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 02:07 PM
Silly boy, in your world, we would just take it from the rich judge and give it to the plaintiff, right?

Well if the guy's got a min wage job, then maybe he shouldn't have a mortgage, maybe he should have lived in an apartment.

Wife took everything in the divorce? I thought his house was foreclosed on, I thought he made min wage, he couldn't have had too much to take. Although, I'm sure she got his I phone, his big screen and his Chrysler 300. I just wonder if the $2200 rims the in-dash DVD navigation system we're included in the settlement? Poor bastard, how did he ever survive?

Good job with the attributing things to a man in a made up story. BTW, why does every example you make seem to lean towards a certain stereotype?

badger
12/1/2011, 02:11 PM
Good job with the attributing things to a man in a made up story. BTW, why does every example you make seem to lean towards a certain stereotype?

The funny thing is that the original post was just the first sentence... but yet when he updated it he didn't change my silly gender.

It's a hypothetical that was supposed to be a joke, but seriously, how do you take money from someone that has no money to give? Tax em with forced labor?

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 02:30 PM
The funny thing is that the original post was just the first sentence... but yet when he updated it he didn't change my silly gender.

It's a hypothetical that was supposed to be a joke, but seriously, how do you take money from someone that has no money to give? Tax em with forced labor?

Payment plan? Forced labor would be good in only that it means the government actually was creating jobs.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 02:32 PM
The funny thing is that the original post was just the first sentence... but yet when he updated it he didn't change my silly gender.

It's a hypothetical that was supposed to be a joke, but seriously, how do you take money from someone that has no money to give? Tax em with forced labor?

never said you should take money from those who don't have it, simply said those who don't have/earn money have no right to take others money.

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 02:33 PM
let's see...

1. Raising effective tax rates alone will not get us out of the financial mess we are in.

2. Going back to the Clinton tax rates will not do chit to increase revenue....a half percent of GDP at most...we need a 2% increase in revenue as a % to GDP to get our finances in control (10 years or so)

3. Clean up the tax code and we will see revenue increases...our goal should be to bankrupt H&R Block...

4. Either Buffet is not as smart as we think he is or he is a liar...he has no employee paying fed income and payroll taxes at the rate of 41%...the data he provided about his secretary was also inaccurate...5 minutes on the IRS tax planner will prove me correct...

4. LTCG rates should be kept low...the money is invested and put at risk...someone may hold onto a security or business for many years before taking a penny in profit....that money is building companies...producing jobs..it can be a very risky business...venture capitalist can make a killing...or they lose every friggin cent...see how well Chu did when he tried to become Mr. Venture Capitalist....do what you want with STCG rates...if you want go ahead and make an USTCG (ultra short term cap gains) rate at 60% and hammer the day traders....lol....if you raise LTCP gain rates to the personal income level will you allow losses to be taken against earned income? Or continue to only allow them to be used only to offset LTCG profits?

5. To suggest massive cuts in spending is foolish...we would be lucky to cut 3% and not harm the economy...as DD has suggested in the past (and another poster brought up the same point recently, sorry can't remember who) we could easily hold spending at current levels...no cuts needed...and let inflation help get us out of the mess...

6.When discussing taxes as a percent of income we should keep payroll taxes as a separate entity...it has absolutely nothing to do with spending outside of SS/Med..payroll taxes should be kept under a different set of books...positive revenue from payroll taxes in the past masked the true problem we were facing by offsetting a significant part of the red ink....SS/Med is basically a defined benefit play...you pay in x amount and you will get y...the more you make the lower the rate of return you will receive...a significant amount of payroll tax return is already being moved from the wealthy to the less well off...5 minutes on the SS planner will prove me correct...SS is an easy fix...move the cap up to 140k or so and slowly add on a couple of years for full benefits...the poor have to wait longer to get their bennies...the rich have to wait longer and pay in more...sound more than fair..

My crippled, old, and arthritic fingers are starting to ache so bye for now!

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 02:34 PM
lol

my apologies, I guess I should have said "silly chick".

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 02:36 PM
To suggest massive cuts in spending is foolish

please tell me you were being sarcastic.

okie52
12/1/2011, 02:37 PM
As usual Phil, I agree.

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 02:38 PM
please tell me you were being sarcastic.

You think we can cut more than 3% of spending in one fell swoop and not cause harm to the economy?

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 02:39 PM
As usual Phil, I agree.

Okie, we are clones...you just pound on the immigration side and I pound on the finances...ain't it fun!

okie52
12/1/2011, 02:39 PM
please tell me you were being sarcastic.

The point I think Phil and others are making about freezing spending vs draconian cuts will be to let the economy outgrow the spending and not suffer dramatic unemployment/recession repercussions.

okie52
12/1/2011, 02:40 PM
Okie, we are clones...you just pound on the immigration side and I pound on the finances...ain't it fun!

Hasn't changed much over the years, has it?

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 02:41 PM
The point I think Phil and others are making about freezing spending vs draconian cuts will be to let the economy outgrow the spending and not suffer dramatic unemployment/recession repercussions.

That is correct...it was initially DD's idea from a couple of years ago...

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 02:41 PM
Hasn't changed much over the years, has it?

Nope...though I do miss Gaffer, Syb, and whats her name...

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 02:43 PM
please tell me you were being sarcastic.

Dale - you could tally up everything you've ever wrote here and it wouldn't have 1% of the insight, solution, or explanation that phil just wrote.

okie52
12/1/2011, 02:44 PM
Nope...though I do miss Gaffer, Syb, and whats her name...

I do too. Syb and slow went off to liberal nirvana (I think we both got booted from their site). Gaffer I haven't heard from in over a year. Heck, I haven't heard much from Profit for that matter.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 02:47 PM
Dale - you could tally up everything you've ever wrote here and it wouldn't have 1% of the insight, solution, or explanation that phil just wrote.

Hell, there you have it, Phils got the solution to the problem, all we had to do was ask him. Phil, have you contacted D.C. with your plan? I'm sure B.O. and is boys are waiting by the BatPhone, for your call.

okie52
12/1/2011, 02:53 PM
Hell, there you have it, Phils got the solution to the problem, all we had to do was ask him. Phil, have you contacted D.C. with your plan? I'm sure B.O. and is boys are waiting by the BatPhone, for your call.

Phil's response is a possible solution with perhaps minimal pain. He11 I am ultimately for a 50% reduction in our military spending but I want it done over the next 20-25 years because doing it in a couple of years would be catastrophic to our economy (and military).

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 02:55 PM
Phil's response is a possible solution with perhaps minimal pain. He11 I am ultimately for a 50% reduction in our military spending but I want it done over the next 20-25 years because doing it in a couple of years would be catastrophic to our economy (and military).

Sure let's cut our military in half, nice plan, NEXT!!!!

okie52
12/1/2011, 03:09 PM
Sure let's cut our military in half, nice plan, NEXT!!!!

You do realize we spend 10 times more on our military than the next closest country, don't you?

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 03:10 PM
Let's just do this, let's just say no one in America and I mean NO ONE is allowed to earn over 75k a year, that way we won't ever have to worry about the greedy bastards on Wall Street. We won't have to bail out fat cats like GM, we won't have to worry about funding union pensions etc.

IF taking away more of the rich's wealth is a good thing, then taking away all of it should be a great thing.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 03:10 PM
You do realize we spend 10 times more on our military than the next closest country, don't you?

That is a damn good thing.

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 03:10 PM
Hell, there you have it, Phils got the solution to the problem, all we had to do was ask him. Phil, have you contacted D.C. with your plan? I'm sure B.O. and is boys are waiting by the BatPhone, for your call.

Will do....

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 03:13 PM
Will do....

let me know how that works out for you there Phil. Seriously, your plan sounds solid, have you thought about submitting somewhere other than an OU football message board?

yermom
12/1/2011, 03:19 PM
Let's just do this, let's just say no one in America and I mean NO ONE is allowed to earn over 75k a year, that way we won't ever have to worry about the greedy bastards on Wall Street. We won't have to bail out fat cats like GM, we won't have to worry about funding union pensions etc.

IF taking away more of the rich's wealth is a good thing, then taking away all of it should be a great thing.

that's a sweet straw man you have there

okie52
12/1/2011, 03:19 PM
That is a damn good thing.

Why? Are you for sustaining our bases/military installations worldwide? Are you for our continuing role as the world's policeman? Do you think it is our military or our economy that is the strength of America?

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 03:22 PM
Why? Are you for sustaining our bases/military installations worldwide? Are you for our continuing role as the world's policeman? Do you think it is our military or our economy that is the strength of America?

Dale doesn't answer questions and he sure as hell doesn't have any solutions. His plan is being an old crony who shakes his fist at anything and everything.


Let's just do this, let's just say no one in America and I mean NO ONE is allowed to earn over 75k a year, that way we won't ever have to worry about the greedy bastards on Wall Street. We won't have to bail out fat cats like GM, we won't have to worry about funding union pensions etc.

IF taking away more of the rich's wealth is a good thing, then taking away all of it should be a great thing.

I knew it! You're a closet socialist/commi/nazi/liberal/hippie.

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 03:30 PM
let me know how that works out for you there Phil. Seriously, your plan sounds solid, have you thought about submitting somewhere other than an OU football message board?

lol

okie52
12/1/2011, 03:37 PM
Dale doesn't answer questions and he sure as hell doesn't have any solutions. His plan is being an old crony who shakes his fist at anything and everything.



I knew it! You're a closet socialist/commi/nazi/liberal/hippie.

Well he does get the board hoppin.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 03:37 PM
Why?
Are you for sustaining our bases/military installations worldwide? Are you for our continuing role as the world's policeman? Do you think it is our military or our economy that is the strength of America?



Are you for sustaining our bases/military installations worldwide?

sure if our military leaders see reason to. I trust their opinions over some leftest on a football message board (sorry Phil)

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 03:39 PM
Dale doesn't answer questions and he sure as hell doesn't have any solutions. His plan is being an old crony who shakes his fist at anything and everything.



I knew it! You're a closet socialist/commi/nazi/liberal/hippie.

what's wrong with my salary cap plan? As I said, if taking more money from the rich is step in the right direction, then taking all their money is a fing marathon. Why is it you liberals always argue against your own logic?

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 03:43 PM
what's wrong with my salary cap plan? As I said, if taking more money from the rich is step in the right direction, then taking all their money is a fing marathon. Why is it you liberals always argue against your own logic?

You must have the largest paintbrush known to man.

okie52
12/1/2011, 03:43 PM
sure if our military leaders see reason to. I trust their opinions over some leftest on a football message board (sorry Phil)

Phil's a lefty? I haven't heard that one before.

So you aren't comfortable with the US just having a 5-1 superiority on the next closest nation in military might? He11, I would be surprised that many military leaders wouldn't want a 20-1 advantage.

S Korea needs us there? Germany and Nato need us there? Japan needs us there?

And we sure don't need to be spending decades in the likes of Afghanistan or Iraq or worry about nation building. Or is that just some leftist thinking?

Midtowner
12/1/2011, 03:46 PM
Dale Ellis Logic 101

If incarcerating someone for 1 year for larceny is good, incarcerating them for 99 years is better.

If drinking a beer is good, drinking 36 beers is better.

If lighting a match is good, burning down a forest is better.

How can you argue against such sound logic?

Midtowner
12/1/2011, 03:47 PM
Phil's a lefty? I haven't heard that one before.

So you aren't comfortable with the US just having a 5-1 superiority on the next closest nation in military might? He11, I would be surprised that many military leaders wouldn't want a 20-1 advantage.

S Korea needs us there? Germany and Nato need us there? Japan needs us there?

And we sure don't need to be spending decades in the likes of Afghanistan or Iraq or worry about nation building. Or is that just some lefist thinking?

For some reason, we need to contain China, and we must have bases in Europe to deal with the resurgent Soviets.

Makes perfect sense.

okie52
12/1/2011, 03:48 PM
Dale Ellis Logic 101

If incarcerating someone for 1 year for larceny is good, incarcerating them for 99 years is better.

If drinking a beer is good, drinking 36 beers is better.

If lighting a match is good, burning down a forest is better.

How can you argue against such sound logic?

LOL-well I must admit that I have bought into the 36 beers logic.

okie52
12/1/2011, 03:49 PM
For some reason, we need to contain China, and we must have bases in Europe to deal with the resurgent Soviets.

Makes perfect sense.

Funny how they get by spending 1/10 of what we do.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 03:49 PM
Phil's a lefty? I haven't heard that one before.

So you aren't comfortable with the US just having a 5-1 superiority on the next closest nation in military might? He11, I would be surprised that many military leaders wouldn't want a 20-1 advantage.

S Korea needs us there? Germany and Nato need us there? Japan needs us there?

And we sure don't need to be spending decades in the likes of Afghanistan or Iraq or worry about nation building. Or is that just some leftist thinking?

what the hell are you asking me for? apparently the powers that be, who run our military think so. Maybe you should direct some of your anger at them.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 03:50 PM
Funny how they get by spending 1/10 of what we do.

so are you suggesting we go commie?

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 03:52 PM
I am so far left I am off the chart....

okie52
12/1/2011, 03:57 PM
what the hell are you asking me for? apparently the powers that be, who run our military think so. Maybe you should direct some of your anger at them.

You don't question it? Ever hear Ike warn about the military/industrial complex? Sustainability is what I am after and a continued world leadership role. I think that can be achieved by maintaining a strong economy and reducing unnecessary exposures militarily. Of course I also believe a lot can be achieved by gaining energy independence...but that's another story.

okie52
12/1/2011, 03:59 PM
so are you suggesting we go commie?

Amazing deduction. But they would normally have been seen as our potential adversaries and we outspend the both of them combined by over 5-1. Safe enough margin?

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 03:59 PM
Dale Ellis Logic 101

If incarcerating someone for 1 year for larceny is good, incarcerating them for 99 years is better.

If drinking a beer is good, drinking 36 beers is better.

If lighting a match is good, burning down a forest is better.

How can you argue against such sound logic?

ahhhhhhh, is this the twilight zone or something? Why the hell do you think I gave that silly example? It was to show that sometimes more is not better. For a critical thinker, you sure don't think very critically.

By the way, I noticed you went all crickets chirping on me when I asked why you rail on the "everybody deserves healthcare" issue, yet don't bother to provide any for your TWO employees. HeII, you don't even provide it for yourself, you have your wife's employer foot the bill. Kind of a "do as I say and not as I do" sorta vibe you got going on there.

okie52
12/1/2011, 03:59 PM
I am so far left I am off the chart....

I'll bet you play golf lefthanded.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 04:00 PM
Amazing deduction. But they would normally have been seen as our potential adversaries and we outspend the both of them combined by over 5-1. Safe enough margin?

yes we do, and I'm damn glad about it, especially since I have a son who currently serves in the military.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 04:01 PM
I'll bet you play golf lefthanded.

I never said Phil was a leftest, I simply apologized to him for calling others leftest.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 04:02 PM
hey, what happened to the Badger chick?

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 04:04 PM
I never said Phil was a leftest, I simply apologized to him for calling others leftest.

I have been called far worse...

okie52
12/1/2011, 04:06 PM
yes we do, and I'm damn glad about it, especially since I have a son who currently serves in the military.

I do too. He got back from Iraq about a year ago. But that doesn't alter my belief that we need to reduce our military spending and exposures. And forget about this nation building crap. Obliterate the offending party and leave if we are attacked. Short of that I would love to have a few decades where we weren't in a war.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 04:08 PM
I do too. He got back from Iraq about a year ago. But that doesn't alter my belief that we need to reduce our military spending and exposures. And forget about this nation building crap. Obliterate the offending party and leave if we are attacked. Short of that I would love to have a few decades where we weren't in a war.


I would love to have a few decades where we weren't in a war.

agreed.

diverdog
12/1/2011, 04:12 PM
You must have the largest paintbrush known to man.

Actually it is a chicken manure spreader.

diverdog
12/1/2011, 04:14 PM
yes we do, and I'm damn glad about it, especially since I have a son who currently serves in the military.

We can cut the military a lot and not hurt readiness.

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 04:16 PM
Actually it is a chicken manure spreader.

Chicken? I would have thought horse. I was way off.


yes we do, and I'm damn glad about it, especially since I have a son who currently serves in the military.

Less military bases could mean less time your son is out of the country...

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 04:20 PM
You could shut down bases overseas and not cut a penny in spending or manning and see fiscal benefits...instead of spending money on housing and food and services in Bum F Egypt you spend the money in Wyoming...

okie52
12/1/2011, 04:25 PM
You could shut down bases overseas and not cut a penny in spending or manning and see fiscal benefits...instead of spending money on housing and food and services in Bum F Egypt you spend the money in Wyoming...

Very true. Now if you put them on the border it may be more hostile than Iraq and Afghanistan.

diverdog
12/1/2011, 04:26 PM
You could shut down bases overseas and not cut a penny in spending or manning and see fiscal benefits...instead of spending money on housing and food and services in Bum F Egypt you spend the money in Wyoming...

Roger that.

Midtowner
12/1/2011, 04:31 PM
Funny how they get by spending 1/10 of what we do.

When their military suppliers defraud them, they receive an unceremonious bullet to the head.

When military contractors defraud the U.S. Government, there's some vague acknowledgement that something bad happened and no one is ever taken to task.

One might see how costs would add up.

okie52
12/1/2011, 04:37 PM
When their military suppliers defraud them, they receive an unceremonious bullet to the head.

When military contractors defraud the U.S. Government, there's some vague acknowledgement that something bad happened and no one is ever taken to task.

One might see how costs would add up.

I think we get the same bang for our buck as other countries (no pun intended) with probably the same amount of fraud as the other large militaries face. But our expenditures are just too high particularly when you have a flagging economy. There are very few areas in my life where I couldn't feel comfortable with a 5-1 advantage.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 04:42 PM
I think we get the same bang for our buck as other countries (no pun intended) with probably the same amount of fraud as the other large militaries face. But our expenditures are just too high particularly when you have a flagging economy. There are very few areas in my life where I couldn't feel comfortable with a 5-1 advantage.

but if there is one, where maybe you shouldn't this would be the one, yes?

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 04:44 PM
It's so simple the way you guys explain it why can't the guys who've made a career out of figuring things like this out........figure it out? Hell, shut down some bases, increase taxes on the wealthy..poof, Nirvana!!

okie52
12/1/2011, 05:14 PM
It's so simple the way you guys explain it why can't the guys who've made a career out of figuring things like this out........figure it out? Hell, shut down some bases, increase taxes on the wealthy..poof, Nirvana!!

You could make that statement about any area of government and spending...those guys that have made a career of it and it has worked out well...right?

You are for spending cuts, right?

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 05:15 PM
Midtowner, I notice you're avoiding the "healthcare for your employees" issue like the plague. I'm calling you out on that one. You want everyone to have healthcare yet you provide NONE for your two employees or yourself. What up with that counselor?

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 05:17 PM
http://zaviews.blogspot.com/2011/11/us-army-shrinking-to-levels-never-seen.html

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 05:22 PM
It's so simple the way you guys explain it why can't the guys who've made a career out of figuring things like this out........figure it out? Hell, shut down some bases, increase taxes on the wealthy..poof, Nirvana!!

Its a start. I think there has been more discussion than just these two things.
The guys who made a career out of it have made a career of selling out their souls and beliefs for $$$$$.

What's your plan anyway? Do you think the people who do this for a living are doing a good job?

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 05:25 PM
You could make that statement about any area of government and spending...those guys that have made a career of it and it has worked out well...right?

You are for spending cuts, right?

i did make a career of taking very large and complicated systems, breaking them down to their simplest terms, and then plan and implement corrective action and followup...

okie52
12/1/2011, 05:28 PM
i did make a career of taking very large and complicated systems, breaking them down to their simplest terms, and then plan and implement corrective action and followup...

You have that going for you and it shows.

And I slept in a Holiday Inn.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 05:30 PM
Its a start. I think there has been more discussion than just these two things.
The guys who made a career out of it have made a career of selling out their souls and beliefs for $$$$$.

What's your plan anyway? Do you think the people who do this for a living are doing a good job?

Some of them are, some are not.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 05:31 PM
i did make a career of taking very large and complicated systems, breaking them down to their simplest terms, and then plan and implement corrective action and followup...

type up your proposal, stick it in an envelope and mail it to the West Wing, otherwise you're just pissin in the wind my friend. By the way, where's that Badger chick?

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 05:34 PM
Some of them are, some are not.

I hope you never leave.

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 05:35 PM
You have that going for you and it shows.

And I slept in a Holiday Inn.

lol

I had a great job for about 10 years...I would get sent to a plant to work on the problems that no one else could resolve...it didn't matter if it was a systems, production, design, quality, or management problem...they got dumped in my lap...

Everybody in the place knew I had the backing of the very top of the organization so I pretty well got what I wanted...at first they hated my azz being in the middle of their business...but after a visit or two they would ask for me on future problems...

I got to work with the cutting edge of manufacturing technology

Long hours but great times....

I was lucky...

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 05:36 PM
type up your proposal, stick it in an envelope and mail it to the West Wing, otherwise you're just pissin in the wind my friend. By the way, where's that Badger chick?

Beats the hell out of me...It was Okie's day to watch her...

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 05:39 PM
Beats the hell out of me...It was Okie's day to watch her...

She's smarter than us and knows to limit her time in the politics forum.

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 05:39 PM
I hope you never leave.

I knew you had man wood for me.

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 05:40 PM
She's smarter than us and knows to limit her time in the politics forum.

True

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 05:40 PM
She's smarter than us and knows to limit her time in the politics forum.

We finally agree on something, she's smarter than you.

okie52
12/1/2011, 05:46 PM
lol

I had a great job for about 10 years...I would get sent to a plant to work on the problems that no one else could resolve...it didn't matter if it was a systems, production, design, quality, or management problem...they got dumped in my lap...

Everybody in the place knew I had the backing of the very top of the organization so I pretty well got what I wanted...at first they hated my azz being in the middle of their business...but after a visit or two they would ask for me on future problems...

I got to work with the cutting edge of manufacturing technology

Long hours but great times....

I was lucky...

You ever miss the old tire factories? Ever go by a plant like the one in Ardmore?

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 05:48 PM
lol

I had a great job for about 10 years...I would get sent to a plant to work on the problems

must have been a hell of a plant.

okie52
12/1/2011, 05:49 PM
http://zaviews.blogspot.com/2011/11/us-army-shrinking-to-levels-never-seen.html

I haven't heard anything about this. Was this "going" to happen if the defense budget wasn't passed or is this going to happen no matter what (I glanced through the article).

Repubs are upset about 40,000 troops leaving Iraq? I say hallelujah. That deal was struck with Iraq by Bush years ago. Why on earth would we want them to hang around?

Dale Ellis
12/1/2011, 05:51 PM
I haven't heard anything about this. Was this "going" to happen if the defense budget wasn't passed or is this going to happen no matter what (I glanced through the article).

Repubs are upset about 40,000 troops leaving Iraq? I say hallelujah. That deal was struck with Iraq by Bush years ago. Why on earth would we want them to hang around?

I agree, as long as the mission is complete and all objectives have been met, let's get them the hell out of there.

Ton Loc
12/1/2011, 05:55 PM
I knew you had man wood for me.

Nope, but you're entertaining. Way better than that last guy...


We finally agree on something, she's smarter than you.

Yep

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 06:01 PM
You ever miss the old tire factories? Ever go by a plant like the one in Ardmore?

At times I miss it...I had 10 great years with a new challenge every couple of weeks and then off I would go...I was a jack of all trades...

Then the company nearly goes belly up and they trash every division...they ship my azz off from Tyler to Union City, Tenn for a new radial expansion...I swear that plant was built on an old Indian burial ground...two years of hell working out of a mobile home office...

pphilfran
12/1/2011, 06:01 PM
must have been a hell of a plant.

Different plants

Serge Ibaka
12/1/2011, 06:38 PM
How about the masses earn their own fing money? That thought ever cross that "brain" of yours?

Didn't you see my earlier post?
I simply acknowledge [that rich people have a] responsibility in keeping our entire society afloat.

And it is their responsibility in this society (globalized, mass-producing & mass-consuming as it is). If we were a village-centered, agrarian people, then the discussion would be different. But things are different, and our social-institutions are primarily what keeps the money pumping (or what keeps the consuming-masses ready and able to work & purchase, as I noted above; everything falls flat without these institutions, including corporations and the gated-communities that their white-collars live in). And the only people who have the money to support these institutions are the rich. So pay your dumb taxes, lay down your heads on your comfy pillows, and sleep soundly knowing that you're getting the very best that capitalism has to offer. Holy hell.

Gaw. Can't you guys keep up, please?

East Coast Bias
12/1/2011, 08:38 PM
This thread is confusing to me as well. I am totally with Phil and Okie on the military and finance rant and I thought I was a Lefty.Either this spells trouble for them or could I be going over to the dark side? Are you guys for small or smaller government?

ouwasp
12/2/2011, 01:25 AM
[QUOTE=badger;3414265]Can you make someone that has nothing pay what they don't have?

I've heard it said the lottery is the only way to make poor people pay taxes...

Chuck Bao
12/2/2011, 03:44 AM
This is one of the most iluminating articles that I have seen on the OWS movement. It is the talking points for Republican governors.

It is telling me that:

1) The movement is important enough and is scary enough to develop these talking points.
2) The Obama administration isn't brave or strong enough to initiatate legislation to bring power from Wall Street to Washington or the Main Street.
3) We are a nation of sound bytes and catch phrases without people fully understanding what is involved.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/republicans-being-taught-talk-occupy-wall-street-133707949.html


How Republicans are being taught to talk about Occupy Wall Street

By Chris Moody

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Republican Governors Association met this week in Florida to give GOP state executives a chance to rejuvenate, strategize and team-build. But during a plenary session on Wednesday, one question kept coming up: How can Republicans do a better job of talking about Occupy Wall Street?

"I'm so scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I'm frightened to death," said Frank Luntz, a Republican strategist and one of the nation's foremost experts on crafting the perfect political message. "They're having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism."

Luntz offered tips on how Republicans could discuss the grievances of the Occupiers, and help the governors better handle all these new questions from constituents about "income inequality" and "paying your fair share."

Yahoo News sat in on the session, and counted 10 do's and don'ts from Luntz covering how Republicans should fight back by changing the way they discuss the movement.

1. Don't say 'capitalism.'
"I'm trying to get that word removed and we're replacing it with either 'economic freedom' or 'free market,' " Luntz said. "The public . . . still prefers capitalism to socialism, but they think capitalism is immoral. And if we're seen as defenders of quote, Wall Street, end quote, we've got a problem."

2. Don't say that the government 'taxes the rich.'
Instead, tell them that the government 'takes from the rich.'

"If you talk about raising taxes on the rich," the public responds favorably, Luntz cautioned. But "if you talk about government taking the money from hardworking Americans, the public says no. Taxing, the public will say yes."

3. Republicans should forget about winning the battle over the 'middle class.' Call them 'hardworking taxpayers.'

"They cannot win if the fight is on hardworking taxpayers. We can say we defend the 'middle class' and the public will say, I'm not sure about that. But defending 'hardworking taxpayers' and Republicans have the advantage."

4. Don't talk about 'jobs.' Talk about 'careers.'"Everyone in this room talks about 'jobs,'"

Luntz said. "Watch this." He then asked everyone to raise their hand if they want a "job." Few hands went up. Then he asked who wants a "career." Almost every hand was raised. "So why are we talking about jobs?"

5. Don't say 'government spending.' Call it 'waste.'

"It's not about 'government spending.' It's about 'waste.' That's what makes people angry."

6. Don't ever say you're willing to 'compromise.'

"If you talk about 'compromise,' they'll say you're selling out. Your side doesn't want you to 'compromise.' What you use in that to replace it with is 'cooperation.' It means the same thing. But cooperation means you stick to your principles but still get the job done. Compromise says that you're selling out those principles."

7. The three most important words you can say to an Occupier: 'I get it.'

"First off, here are three words for you all: 'I get it.' . . . 'I get that you're angry. I get that you've seen inequality. I get that you want to fix the system."
Then, he instructed, offer Republican solutions to the problem.

8. Out: 'Entrepreneur.' In: 'Job creator.'

Use the phrases "small business owners" and "job creators" instead of "entrepreneurs" and "innovators."

9. Don't ever ask anyone to 'sacrifice.'

"There isn't an American today in November of 2011 who doesn't think they've already sacrificed. If you tell them you want them to 'sacrifice,' they're going to be be pretty angry at you. You talk about how 'we're all in this together.' We either succeed together or we fail together."

10. Always blame Washington.

Tell them, "You shouldn't be occupying Wall Street, you should be occupying Washington. You should occupy the White House because it's the policies over the past few years that have created this problem."

BONUS:
Don't say 'bonus!'
Luntz advised that if they give their employees an income boost during the holiday season, they should never refer to it as a "bonus."

"If you give out a bonus at a time of financial hardship, you're going to make people angry. It's 'pay for performance.'"

pphilfran
12/2/2011, 06:09 AM
This thread is confusing to me as well. I am totally with Phil and Okie on the military and finance rant and I thought I was a Lefty.Either this spells trouble for them or could I be going over to the dark side? Are you guys for small or smaller government?

It has nothing to do with political alignment and everything to do with looking at our current position and putting into place plans to get us us out of the mess...to be honest many of the things the left want are reasonable but it is the timelines that they want that are unacceptable...the left tends to want everything yesterday...

Ton Loc
12/2/2011, 09:29 AM
It has nothing to do with political alignment and everything to do with looking at our current position and putting into place plans to get us us out of the mess...to be honest many of the things the left want are reasonable but it is the timelines that they want that are unacceptable...the left tends to want everything yesterday...

Everyone wants everything yesterday is good reason were in this mess right now. A large part of our society is setup to trade your future for what you can get today.

Credit Cards, Student Loans, House Mortgage, Cars for us regular folks and Wall Street and Politics for those other people.


This is one of the most iluminating articles that I have seen on the OWS movement. It is the talking points for Republican governors.

It is telling me that:

1) The movement is important enough and is scary enough to develop these talking points.
2) The Obama administration isn't brave or strong enough to initiatate legislation to bring power from Wall Street to Washington or the Main Street.
3) We are a nation of sound bytes and catch phrases without people fully understanding what is involved.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/republicans-being-taught-talk-occupy-wall-street-133707949.html

I assume everyone already knew #3. I mean, you are in the politics forum of soonerfans.com

I wouldn't have thought the republican guys thought this was such a big deal. His ten suggestions seem like they would actually work.

soonercruiser
12/2/2011, 06:37 PM
Everyone wants everything yesterday is good reason were in this mess right now. A large part of our society is setup to trade your future for what you can get today.

Credit Cards, Student Loans, House Mortgage, Cars for us regular folks and Wall Street and Politics for those other people.


Agree! It is what we have become!

Is unemployment below 8% yet?
:smiley_simmons:

SanJoaquinSooner
12/2/2011, 10:59 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/378702_2476401142247_1019031941_2585883_1342805393 _n.jpg