PDA

View Full Version : The US and World



okie52
11/30/2011, 11:50 AM
population crisis.

Here is a good read particularly for those that believe the US should be growing its population:

http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/us_population

A few excerpts:



•Our population is growing by over 2,500,000 people per year -- that's 285 per hour -- about half from new births and half from immigration (U.S. Census).


•According to a study by David Pimentel, the U.S. can sustain a population of only 200 million... and that's only if we reduce our energy consumption by 50%!


•According to a recent Gallup survey, 165 million adults worldwide would permanently migrate to the U.S. if they could.



•The addition of 3.2 million Americans has a greater resource impact upon the Earth than all of the millions of people added last year in India and Africa combined.

SicEmBaylor
11/30/2011, 11:56 AM
The pro-immigrant argument is sheer lunacy. Good find!

NormanPride
11/30/2011, 11:58 AM
Well, I doubt there are many in the world that would argue that we don't have enough people.

yermom
11/30/2011, 11:59 AM
to me that says that we should figure out how to use less stuff than to limit the population

it's not like we are going to disappear 100+MM people

SicEmBaylor
11/30/2011, 12:01 PM
it's not like we are going to disappear 100+MM people
Never say never.

okie52
11/30/2011, 12:02 PM
to me that says that we should figure out how to use less stuff than to limit the population

it's not like we are going to disappear 100+MM people


Having less kids isn't an option? This isn't about eliminating people currently on the planet.

To me it says both but more importantly less people will mean less consumption

yermom
11/30/2011, 12:11 PM
i'd be down with disincentivizing having kids...

SicEmBaylor
11/30/2011, 12:16 PM
i'd be down with disincentivizing having kids...
Only among immigrant and minority populations. The truth is, European and Anglo-Saxon birth rates are dwindling. I believe both are less than the death rate for the same ethnic group. On the other hand, 3rd world people breed like drunken catholic rabbits. THAT's the problem.

Tom and Jill need to get a little more busy while Jose and Isabella need to zip it up.

okie52
11/30/2011, 12:16 PM
Some interesting quotes:



Here is a collection of some of our favorite quotes about various aspects of population balance. We hope they can shed some light on our perspective as an organization.

Unlike plagues of the dark ages or contemporary diseases we do not understand, the modern plague of overpopulation is soluble by means we have discovered and with resources we posses. What is lacking is not sufficient knowledge of the solution but universal consciousness of the gravity of the problem and education of the billions who are its victim.

- Martin Luther King, Jr., civil rights leader and Nobel laureate

The point of population stabilization is to reduce or minimize misery.

- Roger Bengston, founding board member, World Population Balance

Pressures resulting from unrestrained population growth put demands on the natural world that can overwhelm any efforts to achieve a sustainable future. If we are to halt the destruction of our environment, we must accept limits to that growth.

- World Scientists' Warning to Humanity, signed by 1600 senior scientists from 70 countries, including 102 Nobel Prize laureates

If we don't halt population growth with justice and compassion, it will be done for us by nature, brutally and without pity- and will leave a ravaged world.

-Nobel Laureate Dr. Henry W. Kendall

What becomes of the surplus of human life? It is either, 1st. destroyed by infanticide, as among the Chinese and Lacedemonians; or 2d. it is stifled or starved, as among other nations whose population is commensurate to its food; or 3d. it is consumed by wars and endemic diseases; or 4th. it overflows, by emigration, to places where a surplus of food is attainable.

- James Madison, 1791, U.S. President

When the family is small, whatever little they have they are able to share. There is peace.

- Philip Njuguna, pastor, Nairobi, Kenya

Once it was necessary that the people should multiply and be fruitful if the race was to survive. But now to preserve the race it is necessary that people hold back the power of propagation.

- Helen Keller, world-renowned deaf and blind author and lecturer

Can you think of any problem in any area of human endeavor on any scale, from microscopic to global, whose long-term solution is in any demonstrable way aided, assisted, or advanced by further increases in population, locally, nationally, or globally?

- Dr. Albert A. Bartlett, Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of Colorado; World Population Balance Board of Advisors

The key probem facing humanity in the coming century is how to bring a better quality of life -- for 8 billion or more people -- without wrecking the environment entirely in the attempt.

- Edward O. Wilson, scientist, Pulitzer prize winning author and father of biodiversity

It is not prudent to rely on science and technology alone to solve problems created by rapid population growth, wasteful resource consumption and harmful human practices.

- U.S. National Academy of Sciences and Royal Society of London, joint statement

If the world is to save any part of its resources for the future, it must reduce not only consumption but the number of consumers.

- B.F. Skinner, psychologist and author (Introduction to Walden Two, 1976 edition)

'Smart growth' destroys the environment. 'Dumb growth' destroys the environment. The only difference is that 'smart growth' does it with good taste. It's like booking passage on the Titanic. Whether you go first-class or steerage, the result is the same.

- Dr. Albert A. Bartlett, Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of Colorado; World Population Balance Board of Advisors

We must stabilize population. This will be possible only if all nations recognize that it requires improved social and economic conditions, and the adoption of effective, voluntary family planning.

- Lester Milbrath, professor emeritus and author, Learning to Think Environmentally (While there is Still Time)

Which is the greater danger - nuclear warfare or the population explosion? The latter absolutely! To bring about nuclear war, someone has to DO something; someone has to press a button. To bring about destruction by overcrowding, mass starvation, anarchy, the destruction of our most cherished values-there is no need to do anything. We need only do nothing except what comes naturally - and breed. And how easy it is to do nothing.

- Dr. Isaac Asimov, biochemist and science writer (in this 1966 interview he predicted that world population would reach 6 billion around 2000. Most leaders dismissed his prediction as outrageous. Population passed 6 billion in 1999.)

The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.

- Dr. Albert A. Bartlett, Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of Colorado; World Population Balance Board of Advisors

No matter what your cause, it is a lost cause without population stabilization.

.

okie52
11/30/2011, 12:23 PM
Only among immigrant and minority populations. The truth is, European and Anglo-Saxon birth rates are dwindling. I believe both are less than the death rate for the same ethnic group. On the other hand, 3rd world people breed like drunken catholic rabbits. THAT's the problem.

Tom and Jill need to get a little more busy while Jose and Isabella need to zip it up.

You are correct although I don't think the the Euros need to pick it up for a while until Europe gets down to about 100,000,000 or whatever is sustainable for their size.

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 12:47 PM
Oh, here we go again with all the population control talk!
I really fear that the North American continent will tip over or sink if the population increases.
:topsy_turvy:

Seems like the people and businesses in Montana, Idaho, and N&S Dakotas are screaming for workers.
But, gee, it really is crowded up there, isn't it?

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 12:49 PM
You are correct although I don't think the the Euros need to pick it up for a while until Europe gets down to about 100,000,000 or whatever is sustainable for their size.

And, the Muslims in Europe are averaging how many children???
Nine (9) a family, I believe....that is their 9-9-9 Plan top take over Europe!
(Nine children per Muslim Family; plus nine jihads; plus nine decades and they own it all!)
:crushed:

SicEmBaylor
11/30/2011, 12:51 PM
Seems like the people and businesses in Montana, Idaho, and N&S Dakotas are screaming for workers.
But, gee, it really is crowded up there, isn't it?
No, but why would you want to make it that way especially with immigrants and 3rd world trash?

SicEmBaylor
11/30/2011, 12:52 PM
There are way way way the hell too many people in the world but especially in this country. As Okie said, a US population between 200-250m would be far more reasonable.

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 12:58 PM
No, but why would you want to make it that way especially with immigrants and 3rd world trash?

Problem is, they are technical jobs, like in the oil and gas industry.
That might require not only a move to colder climes; but, some training.
Training requires the capacity to train, and future desire to work. WHY? Just extend unemployment!
Oh well!

diverdog
11/30/2011, 01:10 PM
You are correct although I don't think the the Euros need to pick it up for a while until Europe gets down to about 100,000,000 or whatever is sustainable for their size.

I agree with you.

okie52
11/30/2011, 01:19 PM
Oh, here we go again with all the population control talk!
I really fear that the North American continent will tip over or sink if the population increases.
:topsy_turvy:

Seems like the people and businesses in Montana, Idaho, and N&S Dakotas are screaming for workers.
But, gee, it really is crowded up there, isn't it?

He11 Cruiser, Siberia can be home to billions. Not a great life but there is space.
Just have as many people as possible...is that your plan Cruiser?

Heh, why are Montana, Idaho, and the Dakotas screaming for workers anyway Cruiser?

SicEmBaylor
11/30/2011, 01:47 PM
I for one welcome the destruction of the natural beauty of Montana, Idaho, and the Dakotas just so we can pack millions of migrant and oil/gas workers into the pristine environment. It won't truly be America up there until there's a f'n Wal-Mart every other block with the population density of the Houston metroplex.

People suck. More people increases the suckage exponentially.

okie52
11/30/2011, 01:54 PM
I for one welcome the destruction of the natural beauty of Montana, Idaho, and the Dakotas just so we can pack millions of migrant and oil/gas workers into the pristine environment. It won't truly be America up there until there's a f'n Wal-Mart every other block with the population density of the Houston metroplex.

People suck. More people increases the suckage exponentially.

You've got the exponential part down which is what many don't realize.

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 02:31 PM
What I do get is....
That many of you think that the beauty of Mother Nature an the environment is more important than human life!
Period!

okie52
11/30/2011, 02:41 PM
What I do get is....
That many of you think that the beauty of Mother Nature an the environment is more important than human life!
Period!

What the he11 does that mean Cruiser? We are not even talking about abortions here. Just talking about the need for reduced population by a reduced childbirth rate. The pill works.

cleller
11/30/2011, 03:01 PM
Why would they want to come here? We have terrible healthcare, mean bankers, and our free housing has no limo service on weekends.

cleller
11/30/2011, 03:06 PM
What I do get is....
That many of you think that the beauty of Mother Nature an the environment is more important than human life!
Period!

Well, If I had to choose....

I do enjoy going out in the fields clearing brush and fixing fences more than going to Wal-mart. Much more.

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 03:10 PM
What the he11 does that mean Cruiser? We are not even talking about abortions here. Just talking about the need for reduced population by a reduced childbirth rate. The pill works.

YOU said "abortion" here, Okie! Not me!
I was talking about life,and its value in general. Think the big picture!

It's about an attitude that values life; or, one that worships the environment above all!
Be fruitful and multiply....is the quote.
There is no argument here about responsible stewardship of the planet; nor responsible parenthood!

We can argue all day long about who we think should, or should not multiply. Hiltler obviously had that in mind too.
:moody:
Facts are, that the Muslims are by faaaaarrrrrrr multiplying exponentially!
Get ready for Shari Law!

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 03:14 PM
Why would they want to come here? We have terrible healthcare, mean bankers, and our free housing has no limo service on weekends.

On this commentary, all I can say is....
We deserve the gobment that we elect!

But, without immigration, the U.S. birth rate barely sustains the current population.
Getting immigration under control is a totally separate thread/issue.

SicEmBaylor
11/30/2011, 05:06 PM
What I do get is....
That many of you think that the beauty of Mother Nature an the environment is more important than human life!
Period!
No. I don't think it's more important than existing human life. But it is definitely more important than creating and importing more mouth breathers to f'k the place up.

SicEmBaylor
11/30/2011, 05:09 PM
Facts are, that the Muslims are by faaaaarrrrrrr multiplying exponentially!
Get ready for Shari Law!

I'm reasonably certain that I do not need to prepare for Shari law regardless of your hyperbole and outlandish rhetoric. There is a better chance of Elvis rising from the dead than there is in Shari Law ever being implemented (at least in my life time) in Oklahoma. The United States may crumble and fall, but I'm reasonably sure that I don't have to worry about being forcibly converted in the 74434.

But please...continue with your ridiculous hyperbole rhetoric. It's what you do and you do it well.

Dale Ellis
11/30/2011, 05:11 PM
What I do get is....
That many of you think that the beauty of Mother Nature an the environment is more important than human life!
Period!

Hug a tree, kill a baby in the womb, sounds like a normal thought process to me.

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 11:09 PM
No. I don't think it's more important than existing human life. But it is definitely more important than creating and importing more mouth breathers to f'k the place up.

Just the answer I expected!
If you get your wish, I hope more resources for yourself enriches your life and makes you feel better!

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 11:10 PM
I'm reasonably certain that I do not need to prepare for Shari law regardless of your hyperbole and outlandish rhetoric. There is a better chance of Elvis rising from the dead than there is in Shari Law ever being implemented (at least in my life time) in Oklahoma. The United States may crumble and fall, but I'm reasonably sure that I don't have to worry about being forcibly converted in the 74434.

But please...continue with your ridiculous hyperbole rhetoric. It's what you do and you do it well.

Any you think that only YOU can use hyperbole???
:moody:

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 11:19 PM
Hug a tree, kill a baby in the womb, sounds like a normal thought process to me.

SicEm did say "existing" life!
That's what I took away from the post.

I think that the perfect example was the forrest that was placed off limits to logging for the sake of some owls.
The owls are stupid animals, and don't know how to fly to less noisey neighborhoods, I guess.
The owls were more important to the environmentalists that the lumber needed for homes for the poor children, like Habitat for Humanity builds.

I hope the hyperbole of the liberal line...."poor children" wasn't too much for ya when I uesd it SicEm. I am not licensed to use it BTW.

Lumber, lumberjack jobs, transportation, building stores, homebuilding jobs, money into the economy: not important I guess.

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 11:39 PM
What the he11 does that mean Cruiser? We are not even talking about abortions here. Just talking about the need for reduced population by a reduced childbirth rate. The pill works.

BTW Okie - being in the medical field myself....do you know that "the Pill", some aggressive hormone therapies, and abortion significantly increase a woman's risk for breast and cervical cancer?
That's the dirty little facts that the drug companies like Merc and Planned Parentless don't want people to know too much about.
(I had a good friend on the inside a few years ago that filled our ears with some drug research dirt!)
Doctors prescribe their meds, drug companies and reps respond with "stuff" for doctors. Sounds like Washington and lobbying, doesn't it??
What is the research proven effectivess of latex prophylaxis during sex? (It's not even 96%)

Factually, most of modern society's methods of population control have ruined the lives of millions of "existing" human lives. Ever heard any of the stories on research on the increasing amounts of female hormones in drinking water and the environment? And, the effects of increasing female hormone levels on our food and wildlife?

Modern man thinks that he is soooooo smart, that we can just throw Nature's Laws out the window when it comes to controlling our human lives - both quality and quantity. Just like any so-called simple medication you take for medical reasons, there are a list of side effects and complication an arm long.

And, I'm not even discussing abortion per se. And, this isn't an advertisement for obstaining.
It's the hard facts that Mother Nature smacks us in the face with every day. And, we look the other way when it effects something that we want.
Not politics - but just the same stupidity and bad results as bad politics.

SicEmBaylor
11/30/2011, 11:44 PM
BTW Okie - being in the medical field myself....do you know that "the Pill", some aggressive hormone therapies, and abortion significantly increase a woman's risk for breast and cervical cancer?
That's the dirty little facts that the drug companies like Merc and Planned Parentless don't want people to know too much about.
(I had a good friend on the inside a few years ago that filled our ears with some drug research dirt!)
Doctors prescribe their meds, drug companies and reps respond with "stuff" for doctors. Sounds like Washington and lobbying, doesn't it??
What is the research proven effectivess of latex prophylaxis during sex? (It's not even 96%)

Factually, most of modern society's methods of population control have ruined the lives of millions of "existing" human lives. Ever heard any of the stories on research on the increasing amounts of female hormones in drinking water and the environment? And, the effects of increasing female hormone levels on our food and wildlife?

Modern man thinks that he is soooooo smart, that we can just throw Nature's Laws out the window when it comes to controlling our human lives - both quality and quantity. Just like any so-called simple medication you take for medical reasons, there are a list of side effects and complication an arm long.

And, I'm not even discussing abortion per se. And, this isn't an advertisement for obstaining.
It's the hard facts that Mother Nature smacks us in the face with every day. And, we look the other way when it effects something that we want.
Not politics - but just the same stupidity and bad results as bad politics.

You know what the best thing about abortion is? All of that impoverished minority trash that will never have the opportunity to break into my car, steal my ****, deal crack on the corner, have 30 welfare babies, or commit an untold number of murders against decent people. Basically, we're saving the state a hell of a lot of taxpayer dollars spent on them from the cradle until the state has to put a needle in their arm and do what they should have done to begin with.

SicEmBaylor
11/30/2011, 11:46 PM
BUT, don't get me wrong; I'm certainly not advocating that the state or government force sterilize or abort fetuses. The very thought is absolutely scary as **** and horrific. However, if crack whores want to do it themselves then I'm at the point that I think they're doing the rest of us a favor.

I didn't used to feel that way, but such is the state of society.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/1/2011, 12:18 AM
Well, it's kinda like inflation: high inflation is bad, but far worse is deflation. So shooting for low inflation is a sound path. The U.S. growth rate for the last ten years has been less than 1% per year.

1. The case against population is simple: Assume a fixed pie of wealth, and do the math. If every person gets an equal slice, more people imply smaller slices. The flaw in this argument is that people are producers as well as consumers.

2. Anti-population arguments have strong intuitive appeal. However, during the last two centuries, both population and prosperity exploded. Rising population causes rising prosperity!

Yes. Economists’ central discovery about economic growth is that new ideas are even more important than labor or capital. The main reason we’re richer than we used to be is that we know more than we used to know. We know how one man can grow food for hundreds. We know how to build flying machines. We know how to build iPhones. Best of all: Once one person discovers a new idea, billions can cheaply adopt it. Even Herman 9"-9"-9" Cain says, "We got to grow the economy!"

3. Population doesn’t merely increase the supply of new ideas. It increases the demand as well. Suppose an idea is worth $1 per person, but takes a decade to develop. On an island with only a hundred inhabitants, the idea would remain undiscovered; inventors are better off picking coconuts. But in a world with seven billion customers, inventors scramble to bring the new idea to market.

4. Consider languages. There are far more books, movies, and television shows in English than in Romanian. Supply is one reason: Far more writers and directors speak English than Romanian. But demand is also crucial: English-speaking customers are far more numerous. Small, isolated populations in places like Tasmania and Mississippi stagnate or regress.

5. Despite constant complaints about cities’ crowds and congestion, city folk gladly pay higher urban rents. Even introverts shell out massive premiums to live near millions of strangers. What are they after? Choices. Choices about where to work, what to buy, how to play, and who to meet. These choices, like ideas, come from people—suppliers who offer them, and demanders who sustain them. When population goes up, everyone gets extra choices.

6. The most neglected benefit of population growth, though, is that more people get to exist. Almost everyone would rather be alive than to not exist. Really, aren't you overwhelmed by your own existence? Stop being selfish by trying to stop others from existing.:)





Ideas borrowed from Cato Unbound: Population, Fertility, and Liberty..

okie52
12/1/2011, 12:23 AM
BTW Okie - being in the medical field myself....do you know that "the Pill", some aggressive hormone therapies, and abortion significantly increase a woman's risk for breast and cervical cancer?
That's the dirty little facts that the drug companies like Merc and Planned Parentless don't want people to know too much about.
(I had a good friend on the inside a few years ago that filled our ears with some drug research dirt!)
Doctors prescribe their meds, drug companies and reps respond with "stuff" for doctors. Sounds like Washington and lobbying, doesn't it??
What is the research proven effectivess of latex prophylaxis during sex? (It's not even 96%)

Factually, most of modern society's methods of population control have ruined the lives of millions of "existing" human lives. Ever heard any of the stories on research on the increasing amounts of female hormones in drinking water and the environment? And, the effects of increasing female hormone levels on our food and wildlife?

Modern man thinks that he is soooooo smart, that we can just throw Nature's Laws out the window when it comes to controlling our human lives - both quality and quantity. Just like any so-called simple medication you take for medical reasons, there are a list of side effects and complication an arm long.

And, I'm not even discussing abortion per se. And, this isn't an advertisement for obstaining.
It's the hard facts that Mother Nature smacks us in the face with every day. And, we look the other way when it effects something that we want.
Not politics - but just the same stupidity and bad results as bad politics.

What are the birth rates for bj's?

okie52
12/1/2011, 12:34 AM
Well, it's kinda like inflation: high inflation is bad, but far worse is deflation. So shooting for low inflation is a sound path. The U.S. growth rate for the last ten years has been less than 1% per year.

1. The case against population is simple: Assume a fixed pie of wealth, and do the math. If every person gets an equal slice, more people imply smaller slices. The flaw in this argument is that people are producers as well as consumers.

2. Anti-population arguments have strong intuitive appeal. However, during the last two centuries, both population and prosperity exploded. Rising population causes rising prosperity!

Yes. Economists’ central discovery about economic growth is that new ideas are even more important than labor or capital. The main reason we’re richer than we used to be is that we know more than we used to know. We know how one man can grow food for hundreds. We know how to build flying machines. We know how to build iPhones. Best of all: Once one person discovers a new idea, billions can cheaply adopt it. Even Herman 9"-9"-9" Cain says, "We got to grow the economy!"

3. Population doesn’t merely increase the supply of new ideas. It increases the demand as well. Suppose an idea is worth $1 per person, but takes a decade to develop. On an island with only a hundred inhabitants, the idea would remain undiscovered; inventors are better off picking coconuts. But in a world with seven billion customers, inventors scramble to bring the new idea to market.

4. Consider languages. There are far more books, movies, and television shows in English than in Romanian. Supply is one reason: Far more writers and directors speak English than Romanian. But demand is also crucial: English-speaking customers are far more numerous. Small, isolated populations in places like Tasmania and Mississippi stagnate or regress.

5. Despite constant complaints about cities’ crowds and congestion, city folk gladly pay higher urban rents. Even introverts shell out massive premiums to live near millions of strangers. What are they after? Choices. Choices about where to work, what to buy, how to play, and who to meet. These choices, like ideas, come from people—suppliers who offer them, and demanders who sustain them. When population goes up, everyone gets extra choices.

6. The most neglected benefit of population growth, though, is that more people get to exist. Almost everyone would rather be alive than to not exist. Really, aren't you overwhelmed by your own existence? Stop being selfish by trying to stop others from existing.:)





Ideas borrowed from Cato Unbound: Population, Fertility, and Liberty..

Overpopulation won't affect my life significantly so it's not selfishness but rather the opposite...caring for posterity and this country. It is you that are selfish believing in a pyramid scheme that will ultimately exhaust all of this country's and the worlds resources in the not too distant future. This ignorance regarding unbridled procreation is astounding as though 50,000,000,000 will be better than 1,000,000,000. This thinking defies all logic.

Do china and India look good to you because that's where we are headed.

AlboSooner
12/1/2011, 10:48 AM
Foreigners account for about 40% of all science and engineering Ph.D. holders working in the U.S., and a larger fraction in engineering, math and computer fields (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704905604575026800522011226.html)

okie52
12/1/2011, 10:52 AM
Foreigners account for about 40% of all science and engineering Ph.D. holders working in the U.S., and a larger fraction in engineering, math and computer fields (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704905604575026800522011226.html)

And that is the good kind of immigration.

AlboSooner
12/1/2011, 10:53 AM
And that is the good kind of immigration.

Agree. I posted this as a counter to someone who is against all immigration.

okie52
12/1/2011, 10:57 AM
Agree. I posted this as a counter to someone who is against all immigration.

I like cherry picking the best and the brightest. On the other hand, it does sometimes create voids for their native lands.

SanJoaquinSooner
12/1/2011, 11:27 AM
Overpopulation won't affect my life significantly so it's not selfishness but rather the opposite...caring for posterity and this country. It is you that are selfish believing in a pyramid scheme that will ultimately exhaust all of this country's and the worlds resources in the not too distant future. This ignorance regarding unbridled procreation is astounding as though 50,000,000,000 will be better than 1,000,000,000. This thinking defies all logic.

Do china and India look good to you because that's where we are headed.

Okie, if you read the first paragraph of my post, it's clear I'm not advocating a 3 or 4 % growth rate like India and China had. My point was that slow growth as opposed to negative growth is good.

Besides, China just recently embraced Capitalism and India was never exactly a model country for upward mobility.

If you look at many of the small towns in Oklahoma that steadily lose population you usually find the quality of life begins to suffer. Fewer employment opportunties, fewer consumer choices, etc. It makes young people want to leave even more.

The U.S. fertility rate has been 2.1/woman recently and is projected to be 2.0 for the next few years. 2.1 is zero growth. Mexico's fertility rate has been 2.3/woman and is also projected to drop to 2.0 going forward. this is a radical change from just a few decades ago.

If you have negative growth, construction dries up (image a permanent recession) with so many industries/businesses tied to construction. Like I said, it's similar to negative effects of deflation: it kills economic activity.

okie52
12/1/2011, 12:23 PM
Okie, if you read the first paragraph of my post, it's clear I'm not advocating a 3 or 4 % growth rate like India and China had. My point was that slow growth as opposed to negative growth is good.

Besides, China just recently embraced Capitalism and India was never exactly a model country for upward mobility.

If you look at many of the small towns in Oklahoma that steadily lose population you usually find the quality of life begins to suffer. Fewer employment opportunties, fewer consumer choices, etc. It makes young people want to leave even more.

The U.S. fertility rate has been 2.1/woman recently and is projected to be 2.0 for the next few years. 2.1 is zero growth. Mexico's fertility rate has been 2.3/woman and is also projected to drop to 2.0 going forward. this is a radical change from just a few decades ago.

If you have negative growth, construction dries up (image a permanent recession) with so many industries/businesses tied to construction. Like I said, it's similar to negative effects of deflation: it kills economic activity.

SanJoaqin-There is no doubt that negative growth for a time will hurt certain industries just like lower populations will hurt SS for a while-the pyramid approach is not sustainable given a world of finite resources. But within a few generations we can reach a sustainable population rather than continuing to compound the problem by continually growing populations to support the previous generations. It is a house of cards that will ultimately fail and, as the article indicated, you will be left with famine, death, and a planet devoid of resources and little chance for recovery.

As to birthrates Europe has been negative (other immigration) for quite some time now. But they waited too long and immigration (legal and illegal) will continue to haunt them. The birthrates of the Latino population far surpasses those of other groups in the US, particularly those of illegals. That birthrate, along with illegal immigration, is the reason why the Latinos passed the blacks to now be the largest minority in the US. The Mexican American birthrate was 2.5 compared to all other ethnic classes being 2.0 or less. They are overwhelmingly the largest force in US population growth.

soonercruiser
12/1/2011, 01:44 PM
Okie, if you read the first paragraph of my post, it's clear I'm not advocating a 3 or 4 % growth rate like India and China had. My point was that slow growth as opposed to negative growth is good.

Besides, China just recently embraced Capitalism and India was never exactly a model country for upward mobility.

If you look at many of the small towns in Oklahoma that steadily lose population you usually find the quality of life begins to suffer. Fewer employment opportunties, fewer consumer choices, etc. It makes young people want to leave even more.

The U.S. fertility rate has been 2.1/woman recently and is projected to be 2.0 for the next few years. 2.1 is zero growth. Mexico's fertility rate has been 2.3/woman and is also projected to drop to 2.0 going forward. this is a radical change from just a few decades ago.

If you have negative growth, construction dries up (image a permanent recession) with so many industries/businesses tied to construction. Like I said, it's similar to negative effects of deflation: it kills economic activity.

Officially, the WHO says the U.S. rate is 1.9.
Just sayin...

okie52
12/1/2011, 02:27 PM
Officially, the WHO says the U.S. rate is 1.9.
Just sayin...

So why are we growing?

diverdog
12/1/2011, 04:24 PM
What I do get is....
That many of you think that the beauty of Mother Nature an the environment is more important than human life!
Period!

Cruiser:

I think the two are inter-connected.

okie52
12/1/2011, 04:27 PM
Cruiser:

I think the two are inter-connected.

That they are Diver.

Peach Fuzz
12/3/2011, 03:14 AM
What I do get is....
That many of you think that the beauty of Mother Nature an the environment is more important than human life!
Period! So are you one of those who doesn't think we could ever hurt it? How can you sit there and think they don't go hand in hand? You quote the Bible often, tell me this. Did God not make the earth (I realize people don't believe this but roll with me) and let Mankind in the Garden of Eden as a gift? He also told them to take care of it. Do you think God intended for us to use it recklessly? Mankind has destroyed many of Gods wishes e.g. morals/teachings/beliefs/faith etc. Why would we stop at nature?

Have you ever lived outside of OK? I lived in southern CA (Torrance, bordering both LA and Long Beach) and that smog I saw everyday is enough for anyone to know that is not good, and that's just smog I'm talking about. The beauty in nature is it's purity, how someone could see it different, I have no idea. The earth is probably 6000 years old too huh?

soonercruiser
12/3/2011, 10:34 PM
Peach, why is it that all you guys can do is insult a poster who has an opposing position...rather than use you brain a little more an make an ?
You are dishonest (LIAR) to imply I don't care about Mother Earth.
I was in the military for 29 years! So, I've probably seen more of the real world than you have.
Especially with your rose colored CA glasses!

Peach Fuzz
12/4/2011, 01:59 AM
Where did I insult you? I guess I need to cleanse my CA glasses... Or I just can't use my little brain? I am dishonest? What have you said that would give someone a reason to imply that you do give a damn? Also big-brain, stop using an when the following word begins with a consonant... elementary grammar lessons.