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soonercruiser
11/29/2011, 11:50 PM
So now things are sooooo bad economically in Europe that the success of the Euro becomes more important than national soverignty or freedom! The European socialistic chickens are coming home to roost!
It wasn't a bad enough idea to just have a common currency.
Now that the currency is crumbling the European Bank thinks that European Union countries should consider giving up soverignty over their own budgets, just to bail out the Euro????

Is this insane, or what????
:crushed:

Just in case you missed it!



Euro in danger, Europe races for debt solution European leaders rushed Monday to stop a rampaging debt crisis that threatened to shatter their 12-year-old experiment in a common currency and devastate the world economy as a result.
BY GREG KELLER, PAN PYLAS and PAUL WISEMAN Oklahoman 0 Published: November 29, 2011

PARIS — European leaders rushed Monday to stop a rampaging debt crisis that threatened to shatter their 12-year-old experiment in a common currency and devastate the world economy as a result.

One proposal gaining prominence would have countries cede some control over their budgets to a central European authority. That idea would have been unthinkable even three months ago

The monetary union has existed since the euro was created in 1999, but the European Union, which includes the 17 euro nations and 10 others that use their own currencies, has no central authority over taxing and spending.

Countries such as Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Greece and Italy overspent for years and racked up annual budget deficits that have left them with monstrous debt. A fiscal union could prevent excessive spending in the future. More important, it could provide cover for the European Central Bank to intervene in the European bond market to drive down borrowing costs and control the debt crisis.
In Washington, President Barack Obama huddled with European Union officials, but the White House insisted Europe alone was responsible for fixing its debt problems. Obama said failing to resolve the crisis could damage the U.S. economy, which has grown slowly since the recession's end in June 2009 and still has 9 percent unemployment.
http://newsok.com/euro-in-danger-europe-races-for-debt-solution/article/3627405

47straight
11/30/2011, 12:36 AM
I'd like to have a rail system like theirs, but the difference in population density means it's not as practical here.

Killerbees
11/30/2011, 10:11 AM
http://youtu.be/vGQIxYfKKtc

Position Limit
11/30/2011, 10:16 AM
i'm perfectly happy with the banana republic that i currently reside in. i have a central banking system that encourages me to take risks. oh, and the euro (dollar or zone) aint going nowhere buddy. the fed will print and prop. just announced this morning. have you ever been to europe sonnercruiser? every been beyond the confines of oklahoma?

NormanPride
11/30/2011, 10:21 AM
I've been to Mexico (rural and urban), Jamaica and England. I hope to go many other places.

There will always be poor.

Dale Ellis
11/30/2011, 10:24 AM
i'm perfectly happy with the banana republic that i currently reside in. i have a central banking system that encourages me to take risks. oh, and the euro (dollar or zone) aint going nowhere buddy. the fed will print and prop. just announced this morning. have you ever been to europe sonnercruiser? every been beyond the confines of oklahoma?

Don't like it, feel free to head East my brother, you will not be missed here.

Mississippi Sooner
11/30/2011, 10:30 AM
Damn those socialistic chickens! Damn them to hell!

Position Limit
11/30/2011, 10:39 AM
Don't like it, feel free to head East my brother, you will not be missed here.

who said i dont like it? i'm told european soverign debt is muy malo. u.s. debt is muy bueno. my fed chairman is screaming at me to lean long bank of america and prosper. what's not to like? europe is a failed 3000 year experiment. eurodollars cant be spent so i'm told. us dollars are strong like bull. europe bad. merica good. go. team. fight. win.

Dale, have you ever been out of the confines of your moms basement?

Dale Ellis
11/30/2011, 10:46 AM
who said i dont like it? i'm told european soverign debt is muy malo. u.s. debt is muy bueno. my fed chairman is screaming at me to lean long bank of america and prosper. what's not to like? europe is a failed 3000 year experiment. eurodollars cant be spent so i'm told. us dollars are strong like bull. europe bad. merica good. go. team. fight. win.

Dale, have you ever been out of the confines of your moms basement?

My mom doesn't have a basement, also she passed away 4 years ago, so let's leave moms out of this shall we.

Now please tell us all why, since by your comments you obviously HATE it here, you don't jump on the first Concord to France and enjoy your life there?

Killerbees
11/30/2011, 10:53 AM
i'm perfectly happy with the banana republic that i currently reside in. i have a central banking system that encourages me to take risks. oh, and the euro (dollar or zone) aint going nowhere buddy. the fed will print and prop. just announced this morning. have you ever been to europe sonnercruiser? every been beyond the confines of oklahoma?


who said i dont like it? i'm told european soverign debt is muy malo. u.s. debt is muy bueno. my fed chairman is screaming at me to lean long bank of america and prosper. what's not to like? europe is a failed 3000 year experiment. eurodollars cant be spent so i'm told. us dollars are strong like bull. europe bad. merica good. go. team. fight. win.

Dale, have you ever been out of the confines of your moms basement?

I don't recall ever reading one of your posts before so its hard for me to tell if your serious or sarcastic. Its not making much sense to me either way.

Position Limit
11/30/2011, 10:58 AM
My mom doesn't have a basement, also she passed away 4 years ago, so let's leave moms out of this shall we.

Now please tell us all why, since by your comments you obviously HATE it here, you don't jump on the first Concord to France and enjoy your life there?

so whose basement do you reside in now?

and are you dense? i clearly stated that the u.s. financial situation is so much better than europe's. we have a fed chairman that encourages risk taking and will not let banks fail. and also is willing to throw those evil socialist euro slobs a massive bone. what's not to like dale? ok fine, i'm a buyer of california wine and a seller of french wine. does that take it down to a level you understand?

also, i have a question for the original poster, soonercruiser. how much eur/usd do you have on?

Dale Ellis
11/30/2011, 12:24 PM
so whose basement do you reside in now?

and are you dense? i clearly stated that the u.s. financial situation is so much better than europe's. we have a fed chairman that encourages risk taking and will not let banks fail. and also is willing to throw those evil socialist euro slobs a massive bone. what's not to like dale? ok fine, i'm a buyer of california wine and a seller of french wine. does that take it down to a level you understand?

also, i have a question for the original poster, soonercruiser. how much eur/usd do you have on?

WTF does that question have to do with anything? As I said, you love the euro so much, don't let the door hit ya.

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 12:33 PM
i'm perfectly happy with the banana republic that i currently reside in. i have a central banking system that encourages me to take risks. oh, and the euro (dollar or zone) aint going nowhere buddy. the fed will print and prop. just announced this morning. have you ever been to europe sonnercruiser? every been beyond the confines of oklahoma?

29 years in the Air Force.
Been "around", except Europe.
In the "old days", I really missed taking the family to Europe.
These days - not so much!

Most free and safe society that I saw during that time was South Korea!
But, then again, I'm sure that's not important to you, PL!

pphilfran
11/30/2011, 12:33 PM
I don't recall ever reading one of your posts before so its hard for me to tell if your serious or sarcastic. Its not making much sense to me either way.

SOP

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 12:35 PM
who said i dont like it? i'm told european soverign debt is muy malo. u.s. debt is muy bueno. my fed chairman is screaming at me to lean long bank of america and prosper. what's not to like? europe is a failed 3000 year experiment. eurodollars cant be spent so i'm told. us dollars are strong like bull. europe bad. merica good. go. team. fight. win.

Dale, have you ever been out of the confines of your moms basement?

Please, PL, let's discuss important issues and not insult people!
That's sooooo Alinskyian!

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 12:39 PM
so whose basement do you reside in now?

and are you dense? i clearly stated that the u.s. financial situation is so much better than europe's. we have a fed chairman that encourages risk taking and will not let banks fail. and also is willing to throw those evil socialist euro slobs a massive bone. what's not to like dale? ok fine, i'm a buyer of california wine and a seller of french wine. does that take it down to a level you understand?

also, i have a question for the original poster, soonercruiser. how much eur/usd do you have on?

The intelligent way to discuss the issue would have been to contrast the Euro with the Dollar; and even compare the problem with both economies. Noone is defending the fed - see my other threads!
The issue is giving up a country's sovereignty to save the Euro. Got it!!???
My "opinion" is that this shows how far Europe has gone "down the tubes'!

Or, is Germany on the rise again?

See my thread on Bernanke and Geitner and the secret Fed bailouts!

badger
11/30/2011, 12:47 PM
There's good and bad things about every corner of the world. Europe has good mass transit, even if they can't stop spending money.

TheHumanAlphabet
11/30/2011, 01:10 PM
I've been to Mexico (rural and urban), Jamaica and England. I hope to go many other places.

There will always be poor.

The poor in this country and Europe live like Kings compared to the poor I have seen around the world

Tulsa_Fireman
11/30/2011, 10:31 PM
The intelligent way to discuss the issue would have been to contrast the Euro with the Dollar; and even compare the problem with both economies. Noone is defending the fed - see my other threads!
The issue is giving up a country's sovereignty to save the Euro. Got it!!???
My "opinion" is that this shows how far Europe has gone "down the tubes'!

Has it really? From Bloomberg today.


The euro gained the most in a month against the dollar after the Federal Reserve and five other central banks acted to make more funds available to lenders as Europe’s debt crisis threatens global economic growth.

And the Euro has been outperforming the dollar for awhile now. I'm not a financial guy by any means, but from what I understand it's BECAUSE of the strength of EU nations actually serving to mitigate some of the economic impact of the other idiots that are blowing money like a chinese hooker. Greece, Italy, and Spain come to mind.


Or, is Germany on the rise again?

Has been for awhile. The German economy is the tugboat dragging the sinkers along. Manufacturing is kickin' ***, folks are making money, housing costs are strong, and Frankfurt is poised (if not already) to be the London of the 21st century. It's why everyone's literally begging for Merkel to give the turds in the EU a freebie to save their bacon. Thankfully she hasn't bit entirely and regardless of what happens to the Euro and EU, my Deutschland will come out of the mess strongly. Which is awesome for everyone. Lots of great stuff comes from a strong Europe and innovation and economic strength comes from a strong Germany.

Regardless of how you feel about the way they do things, wouldn't we want to see Europe successful and strong?

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 11:05 PM
Has it really? From Bloomberg today.



And the Euro has been outperforming the dollar for awhile now. I'm not a financial guy by any means, but from what I understand it's BECAUSE of the strength of EU nations actually serving to mitigate some of the economic impact of the other idiots that are blowing money like a chinese hooker. Greece, Italy, and Spain come to mind.



Has been for awhile. The German economy is the tugboat dragging the sinkers along. Manufacturing is kickin' ***, folks are making money, housing costs are strong, and Frankfurt is poised (if not already) to be the London of the 21st century. It's why everyone's literally begging for Merkel to give the turds in the EU a freebie to save their bacon. Thankfully she hasn't bit entirely and regardless of what happens to the Euro and EU, my Deutschland will come out of the mess strongly. Which is awesome for everyone. Lots of great stuff comes from a strong Europe and innovation and economic strength comes from a strong Germany.

Regardless of how you feel about the way they do things, wouldn't we want to see Europe successful and strong?

So, I guess you missed the story today about the Fed pumping money into the European bank....pumping up the Euro.....and waking up the optimists at Wall Street for a short time!
Gee! Fed???? Is that our money??? I guess that we can keep that up, can't we???
Oh! :crushed:

Tulsa_Fireman
11/30/2011, 11:39 PM
So, I guess you missed the story today about the Fed pumping money into the European bank....pumping up the Euro.....and waking up the optimists at Wall Street for a short time!
Gee! Fed???? Is that our money??? I guess that we can keep that up, can't we???
Oh! :crushed:

But you've ignored the fact that the Euro has outperformed the dollar for quite awhile now. It isn't just because of the recent contributions of a NUMBER of central banks, yes, including the Fed and ECB. I think it's more an issue of the dollar being so weak, but to say that the Euro's performance versus the dollar is because of the recent shot in the arm provided by these central banks is simply wrong beyond the news today.

And with that in mind, being you ignored the rest of my post so you could pump your singular dogma, I read literally minutes ago how German exports are booming, setting records. And how while european unemployment is massive, German unemployment is at all time lows. And how even through protests of the masses, Greece, one of the bigger boat anchors gutting the EU, are making headway on passing yet another austerity measure to reign in their out of control spending. Point being, there are those that are doing it well. There are others learning the hard way (and in my opinion, the RIGHT way) and taking steps to slash spending to put their nations back together. And when (not if) it all gets back on track, we'll enjoy the fruits of a strong EU right here in the US.

Again, why is that a bad thing? Especially if the efforts of our central bank along with others serves to also maintain our own economy?

soonercruiser
11/30/2011, 11:47 PM
But you've ignored the fact that the Euro has outperformed the dollar for quite awhile now. It isn't just because of the recent contributions of a NUMBER of central banks, yes, including the Fed and ECB. I think it's more an issue of the dollar being so weak, but to say that the Euro's performance versus the dollar is because of the recent shot in the arm provided by these central banks is simply wrong beyond the news today.

And with that in mind, being you ignored the rest of my post so you could pump your singular dogma, I read literally minutes ago how German exports are booming, setting records. And how while european unemployment is massive, German unemployment is at all time lows. And how even through protests of the masses, Greece, one of the bigger boat anchors gutting the EU, are making headway on passing yet another austerity measure to reign in their out of control spending. Point being, there are those that are doing it well. There are others learning the hard way (and in my opinion, the RIGHT way) and taking steps to slash spending to put their nations back together. And when (not if) it all gets back on track, we'll enjoy the fruits of a strong EU right here in the US.

Again, why is that a bad thing? Especially if the efforts of our central bank along with others serves to also maintain our own economy?

I think that we have strayed away from the primary point of my early posts.
Exactly - I said Germany is strong- Germany is doing very well! The point is ....why is the EU intent on saving the Euro at all costs (the financial link to the dead beats of Europe), at the expense of giving up national soverignty?
That is ludicrous!
If that is how they think, why would we want to be like Europe?

Americans value freedom above all!

The same reason that California or New York, as states out of control, should have to save their own house!

Tulsa_Fireman
11/30/2011, 11:58 PM
I think that we have strayed away from the primary point of my early posts.
Exactly - I said Germany is strong- Germany is doing very well! The point is ....why is the EU intent on saving the Euro at all costs (the financial link to the dead beats of Europe), at the expense of giving up national soverignty?
That is ludicrous!
If that is how they think, why would we want to be like Europe?

Americans value freedom above all!

The same reason that California or New York, as states out of control, should have to save their own house!

Who says "Europe" wants to lose this sovereignty? To speak of Germany, there's MASSIVE pressure from Angela Merkel's own party and a number of major parties to maintain German sovereignty throughout this process, not to mention the strong opposition of the people. And I'll kiss your hiney and give you three days to draw a crowd if the Crown throws up its skirt and gives budgetary function to the ECB. So what you're hearing is the ECB wanting to do X, Y, and/or Z, power players in the EU doing what they want/need to serve their own nations first while trying to preserve the EU, and all the bottom feeders screaming that they're doomed with the ECB having limited ability to act without the donations of the power players to make it happen. Hence the ECB leaning on Berlin to put up a buttload of funds and wanting the ability to sell bonds. And even the French are squinting an eye of distrust in this whole thing.

So in truth, the nations of the EU aren't bailing on national sovereignty in lieu of the ECB. The nations want to bolster the EU as an economic bloc, but in the case of Germany, aren't willing to sell their souls to do it.

cleller
12/1/2011, 09:01 AM
Ironic that Europe is now on its knees to Germany again.

marfacowboy
12/1/2011, 09:15 AM
As stated by others, Germany is a very strong nation right now. They have a lot more party representation than we have in the U.S., they're strong economically and have a burgeoning art scene. And home to one of my all time favorite sports teams, Bayern Munich, and athletes, Franz Beckenbauer.

Position Limit
12/1/2011, 10:22 AM
As stated by others, Germany is a very strong nation right now. They have a lot more party representation than we have in the U.S., they're strong economically and have a burgeoning art scene. And home to one of my all time favorite sports teams, Bayern Munich, and athletes, Franz Beckenbauer.

Franz Beckenbauer was great. i remember as a kid going to all of those tulsa roughnecks games and when the cosmos came to town i'd go to see him. i think i even had beckenbauer cleets. anyway, while germany might be the benchmark economy in europe right now, do be so sure that they dont have thier own set of risks to deal with. remember, they were massive buyers of wall streets junk from 2004-2008 in the form of toxic CDO's. their debt yields have been rising along with the others. europe is a complex financial mess with too many players right now. but dont worry, ben bernanke and the boys will print them out of it. the coordinated worldwide central banking swap rate reduction is only the beginning. like i tried to explain earlier, we have a central bank in this wonderful country that actually encourages everybody to take on lots of risks. especially banks in the form of the carry trade. the trade that will go on for a long time. i get a laugh when guys like the original poster cheers on euro's potential collaspe and imply that it's somehow evidence of a fail society while whistling past our own graveyard. all the while the euro has been higher than the us dollar for quite some time. our business's and governments are as corrupt and fruadulent as they come.

AlboSooner
12/1/2011, 10:50 AM
I want us to be more like Germany. Thank God, Hitler betrayed Stalin.

AlboSooner
12/1/2011, 10:52 AM
Ironic that Europe is now on its knees to Germany again.

Funny you say that. A professor at OU always used to say: Germany has never relinquished its desire to rule Europe. They are finding different ways to do that now.

Killerbees
12/1/2011, 12:00 PM
But you've ignored the fact that the Euro has outperformed the dollar for quite awhile now.

Thats not really a fact since the Euro has steadily declined against the USD since Apr-May. In fact the Euro, after peaking early this spring, is pretty close right now (maybe just a tad lower) than where it started in Jan this year. Not much outperforming there. You can go back further if you wish but its the same story.



And with that in mind, being you ignored the rest of my post so you could pump your singular dogma, I read literally minutes ago how German exports are booming, setting records. And how while european unemployment is massive, German unemployment is at all time lows. And how even through protests of the masses, Greece, one of the bigger boat anchors gutting the EU, are making headway on passing yet another austerity measure to reign in their out of control spending. Point being, there are those that are doing it well. There are others learning the hard way (and in my opinion, the RIGHT way) and taking steps to slash spending to put their nations back together. And when (not if) it all gets back on track, we'll enjoy the fruits of a strong EU right here in the US.

Germany has faired so well because of capital flight from fringe EU countries and the PIIGS. China gorging itself on German machinery trying to advance its economy. China just tapped the brakes pretty hard and the largest portions of capital has been pulled from the strapped EU nations. I will be really surprised if they look so rosy next year.

Germany is no better off than the US as far as debt goes. They are in no position to bail anyone out much less the entire EU, lots of people want to believe it but its just not so.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/10/total%20debt%20to%20gdp.jpg

And the US and the UK are the only two who have recaped their banks, EU banks have triple the leverage of US banks so the reality is that it is much worse than the above graph shows for Germany and the rest of the EU. If they were to recap their banks then they would be up there next to the UK.

The EU is dead. No way it survives as is. It will either wind up imploding entirely or more likely attempt to give the boot to about half of its members. Its either that or give up sovereign control of their budgets and money and let the ECB print like the FED does which will only delay the inevitable. Bond spreads are already stating this quite clearly.

Greece has been on the verge of passing austerity measures for the last year. I wouldn't hold my breath. If the puppet does manage to cram decent austerity measures down the peoples throats they are most likely not going to swallow, they will take to the streets and take down the whole government. In the end it really doesnt matter how much you cut if the people just cut the economy by striking, which the Greeks have proven they are willing to do.

Whats really funny is that the countries with the most power right now in the EU are Greece and Italy. They are vampires sucking the blood out of the EU but if Germany cuts them off then the very first thing they will do is write off all the debt and nearly every large bank in France and lots of German ones go belly up overnight.


Again, why is that a bad thing? Especially if the efforts of our central bank along with others serves to also maintain our own economy?

Because they are destroying our purchasing power through printing. They are going to doom us all trying to pay the promises of social welfare that are mathematically impossible to pay. Now we not only pay for our own promises we cant keep but we are going to pick up the tab for the EU also. There is only one way out of this mess, and they arent going to do it. Write-off about 100Trillion or so in debt, deleverage and cut the social welfare drastically. Of course the US also needs some serious Defense budget cuts (thats a whole other topic, I do believe in a strong defense but we pour billions into projects that the military doesnt even want just so certain politicians get a little pork for the hometown voters).

I understand your point overall, and your right it would be a good thing for US or the EU to make some big cuts and learn to live within our means. The problem is that we are past that point, so is Japan and so is the EU. Nobody knows about China because you cant believe anything that comes out of there, who knows how screwed up their economy really is.

diverdog
12/1/2011, 02:05 PM
Thats not really a fact since the Euro has steadily declined against the USD since Apr-May. In fact the Euro, after peaking early this spring, is pretty close right now (maybe just a tad lower) than where it started in Jan this year. Not much outperforming there. You can go back further if you wish but its the same story.



Germany has faired so well because of capital flight from fringe EU countries and the PIIGS. China gorging itself on German machinery trying to advance its economy. China just tapped the brakes pretty hard and the largest portions of capital has been pulled from the strapped EU nations. I will be really surprised if they look so rosy next year.

Germany is no better off than the US as far as debt goes. They are in no position to bail anyone out much less the entire EU, lots of people want to believe it but its just not so.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/10/total%20debt%20to%20gdp.jpg

And the US and the UK are the only two who have recaped their banks, EU banks have triple the leverage of US banks so the reality is that it is much worse than the above graph shows for Germany and the rest of the EU. If they were to recap their banks then they would be up there next to the UK.

The EU is dead. No way it survives as is. It will either wind up imploding entirely or more likely attempt to give the boot to about half of its members. Its either that or give up sovereign control of their budgets and money and let the ECB print like the FED does which will only delay the inevitable. Bond spreads are already stating this quite clearly.

Greece has been on the verge of passing austerity measures for the last year. I wouldn't hold my breath. If the puppet does manage to cram decent austerity measures down the peoples throats they are most likely not going to swallow, they will take to the streets and take down the whole government. In the end it really doesnt matter how much you cut if the people just cut the economy by striking, which the Greeks have proven they are willing to do.

Whats really funny is that the countries with the most power right now in the EU are Greece and Italy. They are vampires sucking the blood out of the EU but if Germany cuts them off then the very first thing they will do is write off all the debt and nearly every large bank in France and lots of German ones go belly up overnight.


Because they are destroying our purchasing power through printing. They are going to doom us all trying to pay the promises of social welfare that are mathematically impossible to pay. Now we not only pay for our own promises we cant keep but we are going to pick up the tab for the EU also. There is only one way out of this mess, and they arent going to do it. Write-off about 100Trillion or so in debt, deleverage and cut the social welfare drastically. Of course the US also needs some serious Defense budget cuts (thats a whole other topic, I do believe in a strong defense but we pour billions into projects that the military doesnt even want just so certain politicians get a little pork for the hometown voters).

I understand your point overall, and your right it would be a good thing for US or the EU to make some big cuts and learn to live within our means. The problem is that we are past that point, so is Japan and so is the EU. Nobody knows about China because you cant believe anything that comes out of there, who knows how screwed up their economy really is.

I have never understood the EU. The minute it was formed I told my wife that Germany and France got screwed. The PIIGS were essentially emerging economies and were not on par with France let alone Germany. I hate to say it but I want the EU to fail so that travelling over there is more affordable. Right now I think the Euro is priced beyond its value.

marfacowboy
12/2/2011, 12:26 AM
A related article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2068533/Europes-debt-crisis-trigger-violent-revolution-war-warns-French-foreign-minister.html)

"Europe is facing an ‘existential crisis’ that could end in violent revolution and war, the French foreign minister warned last night.
In the bleakest assessment yet of the euro crisis, Alain Juppe, a former French prime minister, said the spiralling debt crisis could trigger ‘the explosion of the European Union itself’.
Mr Juppe told the French news magazine L’Express that the deepening crisis was creating a dangerous breeding ground for violent nationalism, reminiscent of the 1930s.
He said: ‘This is an existential crisis for Europe that raises the spectre of a return to violent conflict on our continent."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2068533/Europes-debt-crisis-trigger-violent-revolution-war-warns-French-foreign-minister.html#ixzz1fLtFu4Vv

Chuck Bao
12/2/2011, 01:33 AM
i get a laugh when guys like the original poster cheers on euro's potential collaspe and imply that it's somehow evidence of a fail society while whistling past our own graveyard. all the while the euro has been higher than the us dollar for quite some time. our business's and governments are as corrupt and fruadulent as they come.

Heh! This post by PL made me laugh and not in a good way. In the not so distant future, the US Fed may be forced to bail out more states and municipalities, much like the ECB and the stronger European economies are having to now.

To answer the original poster's question, yeah whether we like it or not.

soonercruiser
12/2/2011, 06:51 PM
i get a laugh when guys like the original poster cheers on euro's potential collaspe and imply that it's somehow evidence of a fail society while whistling past our own graveyard. all the while the euro has been higher than the us dollar for quite some time. our business's and governments are as corrupt and fruadulent as they come.

I am really sorry that I cannot laugh when some stupid "later poster" tries to twist what someone says....like implying that "the original poster" cheers on the collapse of the Euro!
How Alinskyian! Your constant, vile personal attacks, PL, is what turns a good discussion into mud slinging wars!
Are you a Demoncratic politician? When did you stop beating your wife?

The disussion was about the European Bank's #1 plan to tie budgets together, and lose fiscal soverignty, as a deal to save the Euro members individual economies!
I thank those who made thoughtful contributions on this thread - shedding some enlightenment on the issue.
As implied by "the original poster", this is not what America is about!

diverdog
12/3/2011, 07:54 AM
I am really sorry that I cannot laugh when some stupid "later poster" tries to twist what someone says....like implying that "the original poster" cheers on the collapse of the Euro!
How Alinskyian! Your constant, vile personal attacks, PL, is what turns a good discussion into mud slinging wars!
Are you a Demoncratic politician? When did you stop beating your wife?

The disussion was about the European Bank's #1 plan to tie budgets together, and lose fiscal soverignty, as a deal to save the Euro members individual economies!
I thank those who made thoughtful contributions on this thread - shedding some enlightenment on the issue.
As implied by "the original poster", this is not what America is about!

That post got you riled up? Cruiser you need to grow a thicker skin. He only attacked your position.....so defend it without bringing up the name Alynski for ten billionth time. And don't mess with me today. I am a foul mood from a hangover after drinking to much at the VFW last night.

soonercruiser
12/3/2011, 10:23 PM
That post got you riled up? Cruiser you need to grow a thicker skin. He only attacked your position.....so defend it without bringing up the name Alynski for ten billionth time. And don't mess with me today. I am a foul mood from a hangover after drinking to much at the VFW last night.

Diver!
Have you sobered up enough to realize that I was responding to PL?
He was the one twisting my statements, and being intellectually dishonest.
I would never attack a drunk!
I let Dean do that....
:indecisiveness:

diverdog
12/3/2011, 11:47 PM
Diver!
Have you sobered up enough to realize that I was responding to PL?
He was the one twisting my statements, and being intellectually dishonest.
I would never attack a drunk!
I let Dean do that....
:indecisiveness:

I know you were responding to PL. i just did not see that he attacked you.

Tulsa_Fireman
12/4/2011, 12:15 AM
Neither did I, but got accused of it nonetheless.

Fail.

soonercruiser
12/6/2011, 12:06 AM
I know you were responding to PL. i just did not see that he attacked you.
You need to look again, Diver.

There are posts that present view points and facts in argument.

Then, there are others that start out by calling names, personal attacks, or mis-representing a posters motivations.
I am not suprised that Tulsa Fireman doesn't see it either.
Seems it is only justified when going One-Way!

cleller
12/7/2011, 08:03 AM
http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/fornero-420x0.jpg

This is the sentiment in Europe now. Italian Labor Minister Elsa Fornero announcing the beginning of the end of the gravy train. Yet we still have people over here that want want to go down the same path.

Tulsa_Fireman
12/7/2011, 11:32 PM
You need to look again, Diver.

There are posts that present view points and facts in argument.

Then, there are others that start out by calling names, personal attacks, or mis-representing a posters motivations.
I am not suprised that Tulsa Fireman doesn't see it either.
Seems it is only justified when going One-Way!

Because I'm a dirty liberal!

Yaaaaaaaay!

TheHumanAlphabet
12/8/2011, 10:23 AM
http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww14/cs6000/fornero-420x0.jpg

This is the sentiment in Europe now. Italian Labor Minister Elsa Fornero announcing the beginning of the end of the gravy train. Yet we still have people over here that want want to go down the same path.

I slays me that Europe, to date Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy and France keep wanting to continue as usual. People, how do you think you will keep getting those awesome benefits the liberal governments keep doling out??? Soon they will be confiscating all your pay to return it to you in a different form. Just proof when the gubment teat is sucked on long enough people forget how to fend for themselves...

We have the Great Society and The New Deal to thank for generations of "underpriviliged" people who haven't ever had a job and live on what the gubment gives them for everything... We need people to once again take responsibility for themselves and their lot in life or we will go the way of Europe. Just like that stupid woman in Florida wanting "someone to take responsibility and pay for all her children"...Lady, if you can't afford the children, then perhaps you shouldn't have ****ed the loser prison man you did and had 7 or 8 of your 10 or so kids with him... Many responsible people fret over how to afford their children, apparently you figured we would take care of your mess...

Bourbon St Sooner
12/8/2011, 10:46 AM
Has it really? From Bloomberg today.



And the Euro has been outperforming the dollar for awhile now. I'm not a financial guy by any means, but from what I understand it's BECAUSE of the strength of EU nations actually serving to mitigate some of the economic impact of the other idiots that are blowing money like a chinese hooker. Greece, Italy, and Spain come to mind.



Has been for awhile. The German economy is the tugboat dragging the sinkers along. Manufacturing is kickin' ***, folks are making money, housing costs are strong, and Frankfurt is poised (if not already) to be the London of the 21st century. It's why everyone's literally begging for Merkel to give the turds in the EU a freebie to save their bacon. Thankfully she hasn't bit entirely and regardless of what happens to the Euro and EU, my Deutschland will come out of the mess strongly. Which is awesome for everyone. Lots of great stuff comes from a strong Europe and innovation and economic strength comes from a strong Germany.

Regardless of how you feel about the way they do things, wouldn't we want to see Europe successful and strong?


I want to see a strong Germany that pays for its own defense rather than being subsidized by the US. It's pretty telling when the euros can even run a ****ing no fly zone over **** ant Libya. Time for this free lunch to end.

Dale Ellis
12/8/2011, 11:15 AM
I slays me that Europe, to date Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy and France keep wanting to continue as usual. People, how do you think you will keep getting those awesome benefits the liberal governments keep doling out??? Soon they will be confiscating all your pay to return it to you in a different form. Just proof when the gubment teat is sucked on long enough people forget how to fend for themselves...

We have the Great Society and The New Deal to thank for generations of "underpriviliged" people who haven't ever had a job and live on what the gubment gives them for everything... We need people to once again take responsibility for themselves and their lot in life or we will go the way of Europe. Just like that stupid woman in Florida wanting "someone to take responsibility and pay for all her children"...Lady, if you can't afford the children, then perhaps you shouldn't have ****ed the loser prison man you did and had 7 or 8 of your 10 or so kids with him... Many responsible people fret over how to afford their children, apparently you figured we would take care of your mess...

Get ready for all the "it's not the kids fault, should we let them starve?" crap. I say "no", tell the mom to get a job or two or three and support her kids otherwise she will be thrown in prison for willful child neglect. Beeotch can work at McDonalds in the AM and walmart in the PM.