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SanJoaquinSooner
11/22/2011, 08:09 PM
on now

SanJoaquinSooner
11/22/2011, 08:14 PM
Huntsman has 7 kids! Lost Okie vote on that one.

diverdog
11/22/2011, 08:40 PM
Did Romney just say Commander in Cheese?

Huntsman and Gingrich are heads and heals above the others on national security.

okie52
11/22/2011, 08:41 PM
Huntsman has 7 kids! Lost Okie vote on that one.

Huntsman's got to be your candidate....lots of kids and supports illegal immigration.

okie52
11/22/2011, 08:46 PM
Huntsman supported crap and trade.....what an idiot.

SanJoaquinSooner
11/22/2011, 08:53 PM
Perry taught me something. I didn't know the way foreign aid worked was to write blank checks to countries.

SanJoaquinSooner
11/22/2011, 08:57 PM
Africa's a continent, not country, Rick. easy mistake though.

SanJoaquinSooner
11/22/2011, 08:59 PM
Herman "Let's look at the plan" Cain is just too funny.

diverdog
11/22/2011, 09:03 PM
Ron Paul just bitch slapped Romney.

soonercruiser
11/22/2011, 09:11 PM
Did Romney just say Commander in Cheese?

Huntsman and Gingrich are heads and heals above the others on national security.

That would be the President from Wisconsin!
:biggrin:

SanJoaquinSooner
11/22/2011, 09:16 PM
Bachmann dodged the entitlement cut question totally.

okie52
11/22/2011, 09:18 PM
Immigration next....Huntsman's record is pathetic.

diverdog
11/22/2011, 09:19 PM
I think the least impressive candidate is Bachmann follow closely by Cain. Romney will do anything to get elected. Saying his first foreign trip would be to Israel. Talk about pandering to the religious right. If I were POTUS I would go to Europe and then India followed by China and Pacific Rim Nations. Israel might not see me for 3 years or more.

SanJoaquinSooner
11/22/2011, 09:22 PM
Huntsman's got to be your candidate....lots of kids and supports illegal immigration.

"supports illegal immigration" yeah, right. That's like saying one who advocated the repeal of Prohibition supported illegal drinking.

okie52
11/22/2011, 09:35 PM
"supports illegal immigration" yeah, right. That's like saying one who advocated the repeal of Prohibition supported illegal drinking.

Most probably did so that is a pretty accurate depiction.

Bachman is dead on in taking down Gingrich on his amnesty position

okie52
11/22/2011, 09:36 PM
Romney is dead on too

diverdog
11/22/2011, 09:38 PM
Most probably did so that is a pretty accurate depiction.

Bachman is dead on in taking down Gingrich on his amnesty position

Gulp, I like Gingrich's position. We need to do it humanly.

okie52
11/22/2011, 09:40 PM
Perry and Gingrich are stumbling over amnesty...I didn't realize newt was such a puzzy

okie52
11/22/2011, 09:43 PM
Gulp, I like Gingrich's position. We need to do it humanly.

Humanely? So give 12,000,000 plus amnesty? And then multiply that by 3 fold for their estranged relatives.

About time to take care of the US first instead of a lot of invaders

diverdog
11/22/2011, 09:50 PM
Humanely? So give 12,000,000 plus amnesty? And then multiply that by 3 fold for their estranged relatives.

About time to take care of the US first instead of a lot of invaders

I don't think we have much of a choice. Of course you and I have been down this road before. :biggrin:

okie52
11/22/2011, 09:52 PM
I don't think we have much of a choice. Of course you and I have been down this road before. :biggrin:

End their jobs and benefits and secure the border and we will see how many stick around.

And yes we have lol

diverdog
11/22/2011, 09:55 PM
Is it just me or does Jeff Dunham's puppet, Walter, look like Ron Paul.

ZnGJGnUO_90&feature=fvst

diverdog
11/22/2011, 09:58 PM
End their jobs and benefits and secure the border and we will see how many stick around.

And yes we have lol

I hate to be a little racist here but I would be willing to grant amnesty to all (east) Indians who have higher education.

soonercruiser
11/22/2011, 09:59 PM
Gulp, I like Gingrich's position. We need to do it humanly.

I was kinda suprised that he wasn't harder on the issue....
Just to impress the hard right, if nothing else.
I agree.

diverdog
11/22/2011, 10:00 PM
Cain was dead on about cyber attacks. Very good answer.

Romney is clearly the man to beat but I thought Newt and Ron Paul did very well.

okie52
11/22/2011, 10:01 PM
I hate to be a little racist here but I would be willing to grant amnesty to all (east) Indians who have higher education.

We should recruit the highly skilled and educated...they add value. Still they shouldn't be here illegally.

soonercruiser
11/22/2011, 10:04 PM
Humanely? So give 12,000,000 plus amnesty? And then multiply that by 3 fold for their estranged relatives.

About time to take care of the US first instead of a lot of invaders

Okie,
I don't think that the number of folks that Newt was talking about is anything but a fraction of that 12 Mil.
If we don't secure the border, all the talk is worthless. As, the cross-border stream will continue to flow...especially with Mexico becoming a more lawless society every day!

I know at least one of these small "subset" families from our church. They are all very good members of American society.

okie52
11/22/2011, 10:07 PM
Newt thinks a 25 year illegal is more deserving than a 5 year illegal.

okie52
11/22/2011, 10:10 PM
Okie,
I don't think that the number of folks that Newt was talking about is anything but a fraction of that 12 Mil.
If we don't secure the border, all the talk is worthless. As, the cross-border stream will continue to flow...especially with Mexico becoming a more lawless society every day!

I know at least one of these small "subset" families from our church. They are all very good members of American society.

Please define subset. 25 years? 20? 10? Are their relatives included in this small "subset"?

It won't be small under any plan.

soonercruiser
11/22/2011, 10:23 PM
The question is...Okie,
Do you see a difference in the 3-generation law-biding and tax-paying family - 2 generations that have always been in the USA?
Versus...someone here for a few years; hiding (been sent back a few times); not paying taxes; sending almost everything back to Mexico; or China; or Panama?

I sounds nice to be tough on illegal immighration - I know.
But, the reality is something different.
As long as there are even a few liberals left in Congress and the Lame Stream Media, nothing will happen to fix immigration.
This issue will require some real compromise to re-solve in law.
That's the reality we will have to face.

soonercruiser
11/22/2011, 10:23 PM
Please define subset. 25 years? 20? 10? Are their relatives included in this small "subset"?

It won't be small under any plan.

Thank GOD we won't be involved in the solution!
It's gonna be a tough discussion.

okie52
11/22/2011, 10:45 PM
The question is...Okie,
Do you see a difference in the 3-generation law-biding and tax-paying family - 2 generations that have always been in the USA?
Versus...someone here for a few years; hiding (been sent back a few times); not paying taxes; sending almost everything back to Mexico; or China; or Panama?

I sounds nice to be tough on illegal immighration - I know.
But, the reality is something different.
As long as there are even a few liberals left in Congress and the Lame Stream Media, nothing will happen to fix immigration.
This issue will require some real compromise to re-solve in law.
That's the reality we will have to face.

The reality is with every illegal that is granted amnesty you have further encouraged that behavior and defiance of our laws. Reagan gave 3,000,000 illegals amnesty 25 years ago and look where that's gotten us....4 times that number now and you are suggesting the same plan.

It isn't enough to talk "tough" about illegals, it is time to do something about it.

Regrettably most GOP candidates are spineless on the issue and are hardly any better alternatives than the dems

okie52
11/22/2011, 10:56 PM
Thank GOD we won't be involved in the solution!
It's gonna be a tough discussion.

I wish I was involved in the solution. Subset {0}

SanJoaquinSooner
11/23/2011, 12:16 AM
The reality is with every illegal that is granted amnesty you have further encouraged that behavior and defiance of our laws. Reagan gave 3,000,000 illegals amnesty 25 years ago and look where that's gotten us....4 times that number now and you are suggesting the same plan.

It isn't enough to talk "tough" about illegals, it is time to do something about it.

Regrettably most GOP candidates are spineless on the issue and are hardly any better alternatives than the dems

that simply not true. The 1987 legislation didn't encourage more illegal immigration. More illegal immigration was caused by:

1. We had a white hot economy for a near solid 25 years with more than full employment. There was high demand for labor. They come for jobs primarily. Secondarily to family reunification. If a loved one is unable to return home, there is an incentive to immigrate.


2. Newt was correct. The 1987 law did not provide a guest worker program that would address the labor demand that would continue. Many of the benefactors of the 1987 law became upwardly mobile and moved into the middle class and out of the fields.

3. Mitt says "we encourage LEGAL immigration." Actually that is false in many ways. There may be a 20 year wait, which might not be so bad but during that time one is not allowed to visit with a tourist visa. So maybe your mom and dad immigrated legally but you can't legally come and visit for 20 years (or more) if you've declared your intent to immigrate. that is not encouraging as Mitt says, but discouraging. That is why so many are illegally present while waiting in line to become legal. They should be able to put up a bond or wear an ankle bracelet or something to allow them to legally visit. Canadians can legally visit without visas but latinos can't.

Okie, you give the impression you can just load up the truck and bring the whole family over, like the Joad family or something. that is a false impression.

I suspect Mitt knows our legal immigration paths are highly dysfunctional but chooses not to say it before being elected.

okie52
11/23/2011, 01:10 AM
The 1987 amnesty did what to illegal immigration? Made illegals believe they wouldn't eventually get citizenship? There are 12,000,000 here believing (and even demanding)that they will. They will openly protest while demanding their "rights". They can have their names published in the newspapers and their faces put on TV with little fear of deportation.

What Reagan didn't do was put any teeth in his legislation to reduce illegal immigration or secure the border.

Legal immigration should be for the highly skilled and most educated representing a variety of cultures rather than this idiocracy we have in place now.

And you want to imply that family reunification doesn't occur when it does all of the time and will greatly multiply the numbers of illegals when you include their relatives who will usually be just as unskilled and ignorant. It is lose/lose for the US and Newt knows it but he is just playing politics so as not to alienate the ever growing Hispanic vote. Doesn't care if it's not good for the country if it gets him elected.

The US owes these illegals nothing in spite of what some have been led to believe. The best thing for this country will be their exit and they can take their illegal "rights" along with them.

We, BTW, allow over 500,000 immigrants per year. Just how many do you think the US should allow?

StoopTroup
11/23/2011, 01:23 AM
National Security won't be an issue when the Defense Budget hits zero.

diverdog
11/23/2011, 07:24 AM
The question is...Okie,
Do you see a difference in the 3-generation law-biding and tax-paying family - 2 generations that have always been in the USA?
Versus...someone here for a few years; hiding (been sent back a few times); not paying taxes; sending almost everything back to Mexico; or China; or Panama?

I sounds nice to be tough on illegal immighration - I know.
But, the reality is something different.
As long as there are even a few liberals left in Congress and the Lame Stream Media, nothing will happen to fix immigration.
This issue will require some real compromise to re-solve in law.
That's the reality we will have to face.

Holy smokes I actually agree with a lot of what you have to say. Is this the new kinder gentler cruiser? LOL

Dale Ellis
11/23/2011, 10:54 AM
I think the least impressive candidate is Bachmann follow closely by Cain. Romney will do anything to get elected. Saying his first foreign trip would be to Israel. Talk about pandering to the religious right. If I were POTUS I would go to Europe and then India followed by China and Pacific Rim Nations. Israel might not see me for 3 years or more.

pffft.

okie52
11/23/2011, 10:58 AM
Holy smokes I actually agree with a lot of what you have to say. Is this the new kinder gentler cruiser? LOL

Cruiser likes his lawn service.

SanJoaquinSooner
11/23/2011, 03:50 PM
We, BTW, allow over 500,000 immigrants per year. Just how many do you think the US should allow?

There you go again, Okie, thinking like a Soviet bureaucrat. Government bureaucrats shouldn't set quotas. Government is the problem, not the solution. The free market should determine the number.

For example, in California, we have a great depression in housing construction and all housing construction-related businesses. Worker visas for roofers wouldn't be issued if there are no roofing jobs. On the other hand, the agricultural industry has hardly skipped a beat - except weather-related problems - because we have such a strong demand both domestically and in Asian export markets. Seasonal work visas would make sense, visas that work better than the H2A visas that are a nightmare for most agricultural employers.

500,000 immigrants per year may sound like a lot, but it's really not during normal economic times. We were creating 100,000 new jobs every month for a couple of decades with our domestic workforce hardly growing at all.

If the population grew 3 million/year, that is a growth rate of only 1%.

We issue 140,000 employment-based green cards each year, and there is a 7% per country cap.



Now let me ask, why is it the one million new doctorates world-wide don't all come to the U.S. to become professors? We have no cap on H1B visas in higher ed. Because they aren't all offered professorships, for one thing. The free market supply and demand - not gov't quotas - guide this.

Through government bureaucrat problem solving, all you do is work to sustain the welfare state and a closed-shop union mentality. Immigration is the best way to kill the welfare state and over-priced labor.

soonercruiser
11/23/2011, 05:40 PM
Holy smokes I actually agree with a lot of what you have to say. Is this the new kinder gentler cruiser? LOL

Nope!
That's just hopw I feel about immigration!
(Tough; but practical!)

soonercruiser
11/23/2011, 05:42 PM
Cruiser likes his lawn service.

Believe it or not Okie, I do ALL my yard work personally.
I even get up on the roof, do woodwork, and paint. "Love" being out in the yard!
Hate doing windows!
Maybe I got some illegal European blood wayyyy back there in the family!
:topsy_turvy:

soonercruiser
11/23/2011, 05:46 PM
The reality is with every illegal that is granted amnesty you have further encouraged that behavior and defiance of our laws. Reagan gave 3,000,000 illegals amnesty 25 years ago and look where that's gotten us....4 times that number now and you are suggesting the same plan.

It isn't enough to talk "tough" about illegals, it is time to do something about it.

Regrettably most GOP candidates are spineless on the issue and are hardly any better alternatives than the dems

Nothing is always as clear as it seems.
Do you rememeber any of the give & take in Congress with Reagan?
It seems to me that along with the bill you are referring to, Congress (Democrats) promised him that they would pass legislation to "secure" the border afterwards!
Oh! They didn't! They still haven't!

Lesson Here: Don't make deals with the devil!

bigfatjerk
11/24/2011, 07:49 AM
The reason why we can't afford illegals in this country right now is because we have a welfare state on everything. And it pretty much forces us to pay more for these illegals instead of them really paying their own way. I don't think anyone of us would really care about illegals in this country if they had to pay their own way completely.

The fact is that the government and in the end the people can't afford to pay the way for the millions that want to come here. I don't see that changing any time soon so we need to use our military to protect the borders instead of having our military protect the borders of Germany, France, Britain, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, Austrailia or whatever other countries we have troops in.