Agility training

[MamaMia]

The commentators and sports writers have for years talked about the fact that the Oklahoma Sooners suffer over twice as many injuries to key players on an annual basis than do other teams. This is worrisome in that its losing ball games for us. That needs to change. We do not have a high level of agility training. Other teams incorporate classes in Martial Arts, dance, ballet, tumbling and things like that. We don't. Wasn't it Kelly who did it on his own before his last year at OU? Well, I remember whomever it was said that it made all the difference in the world. Maybe Coach Schmidt needs to consider that.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The commentators and sports writers have for years talked about the fact that the Oklahoma Sooners suffer over twice as many injuries to key players on an annual basis than do other teams. This is worrisome in that its losing ball games for us. That needs to change. We do not have a high level of agility training. Other teams incorporate classes in Martial Arts, dance, ballet, tumbling and things like that. We don't. Wasn't it Kelly who did it on his own before his last year at OU? Well, I remember whomever it was said that it made all the difference in the world. Maybe Coach Schmidt needs to consider that.

Murray did MMA training, which isn't agility training per se. You state these things as fact, yet if you watch us lift, we do a ton of agility drills.

[soonercastor]

the fact that the Oklahoma Sooners suffer over twice as many injuries to key players on an annual basis than do other teams.

Is this a fact? If true it's true and used a good sample for that study 3-5 years then there could be a problem.
I always just figured it's just bad luck, sh*t happens.

[MamaMia]

Is this a fact? If true it's true and used a good sample for that study 3-5 years then there could be a problem.
I always just figured it's just bad luck, sh*t happens.

Take a look. :)

http://ezinearticles.com/?Agility-Training-For-Martial-Arts&id=5315386

Incorporating some Yoga wouldn't hurt either. It would help actually.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Is this a fact? If true it's true and used a good sample for that study 3-5 years then there could be a problem.
I always just figured it's just bad luck, sh*t happens.

I'm still not sure how agility training would have saved whaley. Not much you can do when someone falls on you like that.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Take a look. :)

http://ezinearticles.com/?Agility-Training-For-Martial-Arts&id=5315386

Incorporating some Yoga wouldn't hurt either. It would help actually.

Where does that state that we've had 2x as many injuries as the NCAA FBS annual average? I'd like some verification on that stat.

[MamaMia]

Where does that state that we've had 2x as many injuries as the NCAA FBS annual average? I'd like some verification on that stat. You are the master of google and paste. Look it up yourself.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

You are the master of google and paste. Look it up yourself.

I tried, I came up empty, thus why I'm looking for confirmation of the statement that has been made on several threads as proof we need X.

[MamaMia]

I tried, I came up empty, thus why I'm looking for confirmation of the statement that has been made on several threads as proof we need X.Look...years ago some commentator mentioned that we seem to suffer over twice as many injuries involving our starters than any other team with our winning record. Another one mentioned it just a week or so ago. My cousin emailed an article to me as well talking about all of our KEY player injuries. For years now, I have been concerned so I pay attention to injuries. I don't know whether to believe them or not, but I do pay attention and of all the high profile teams, OU seems to suffer more KEY player injuries than other teams, or at the very least we are in the top 10 in that area.

What I know for certain is that it wouldn't hurt to try to change that. Why would you not be concerned enough about our injuries to wonder if there may be a way to change that?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

If you would have stated simply that you believed we needed a new S&C coach, I would have agreed with you on principle. The guy is more of an embarassment to the football team than Bo Pelini is to Nebraska when he pees on himself. My issue is with this contention that most of our injuries are preventable by some type of training. Most of the injuries we get are of the fluke nature (IE Whaley, Murray, Peterson etc).

There are 2 injuries that I've seen that I definitely think were preventable ->

The first was Bradford's first injury against BYU. It was his 4th year at OU and he acted like he had no clue how to be tackled by a blitzer. That is something that the S&C coach should drill over and over -> how to position your body to minimize the danger when being tackled. At the time, I blamed it on the blue jerseys but after a while I realized that is an offseason task. To a lesser extent, Murray's hamstring injury in the Big 12 Title game fell into this same category. When someone is diving at your legs, you don't plant and try to make a cut. However, that was a split second thing and its debatable whether it could have been prevented.

The second injury that was preventable was the one that ended Gutierez's career. I'm sorry but if a guy has had 3 season ending injuries on kickoff coverage, you don't trot him out there on it his senior year for a 4th.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Look...years ago some commentator mentioned that we seem to suffer over twice as many injuries involving our starters than any other team with our winning record. Another one mentioned it just a week or so ago. My cousin emailed an article to me as well talking about all of our KEY player injuries. For years now, I have been concerned so I pay attention to injuries. I don't know whether to believe them or not, but I do pay attention and of all the high profile teams, OU seems to suffer more KEY player injuries than other teams, or at the very least we are in the top 10 in that area.

What I know for certain is that it wouldn't hurt to try to change that. Why would you not be concerned enough about our injuries to wonder if there may be a way to change that?

Key players I can buy without some evidence. The big question is whether they are preventable (IE, some training method, overuse injuries, or flawed techniques). I do agree for peace of mind of the fans that trying something else would be welcomed.

[MamaMia]

Murray believed it helped him. Why not give it a try? It wouldn't hurt.

[toast]

I would think that a head coach & trainer of any major college program would look at their injuries and workouts vs other programs. I doubt if Coach Stoops and Schmidt would leave on the table any advantage they could gain in keeping players on the field. Sometimes when you follow a program closely it appears there are more injuries to your team than any others. I would be willing to bet that with the resources OU has they have the best conditioning & training available.

[MamaMia]

Leinart took ballroom dancing, which he said helped him alot.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Murray believed it helped him. Why not give it a try? It wouldn't hurt.

I'll have to find the article. I think he said it helped him with the wear and tear of the season. The question is whether the same training techniques would work for an 18 year old trying to get mass as a 22 year old trying to tone.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Leinart took ballroom dancing, which he said helped him alot.

If I remember right, that was for footwork in the pocket. I'd be all for Landry taking up some form of ballroom dancing under duress, like on the left hand lane of I-35.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I would think that a head coach & trainer of any major college program would look at their injuries and workouts vs other programs. I doubt if Coach Stoops and Schmidt would leave on the table any advantage they could gain in keeping players on the field. Sometimes when you follow a program closely it appears there are more injuries to your team than any others. I would be willing to bet that with the resources OU has they have the best conditioning & training available.

I know they use a nutritionist who is a professor at Texas. It was part of the anger at mad dog when they found out he learned his nutrion techniques from Oprah.

[MamaMia]

Just because the sports media guys talk about the fact that the "Sooners suffer over twice as many starter injuries" or "way more than their fair share" of injuries to "key players", and "on an annual basis" than do other teams doesn't make me believe them 100%, because I know they sell commercial products with exaggerating and using drama, but the fact that they are saying things like that at all do make me concerned. So I joined this injury site. I look at it all the time, and we are up there, especially in the teams who have a chance at a title category.

Rice has a lot too, but...they're Rice. :)

I think they should try something new, if for no other reason than "What would it hurt?"

[MamaMia]

I know they use a nutritionist who is a professor at Texas. It was part of the anger at mad dog when they found out he learned his nutrion techniques from Oprah.Who, pray tell, is "mad dog." Ha ha ha

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Well, I think another issue is that OU doesn't release information on injuries so they speculate. Like I said, I'd be all for another S&C coordinator.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Who, pray tell, is "mad dog." Ha ha ha

Mad Dog Madsen, former S&C coach at Texas (fired last year I think). Dude weighed at least 400 lbs and was always leading the team onto the field.

[MamaMia]

I have often wondered why Schmidt is on the sidelines yelling at players. Do all S/C coaches do that? I haven't really watched what other teams S/C coaches do as far as being on the sidelines or not.

[rainiersooner]

How do you know they don't incorporate yoga, pilates, etc., into the workouts? Most personal trainers these days incorporate multiple disciplines into S&C training. I'm not saying they do, I'm just wondering what info you have about the exact nature of the training jarhead Schmitty does.

[MamaMia]

This is off topic but...I got nosy when we were at TGOWWDNS. I peeked in and watched the Sooners eating piles and piles of pancakes and then piles of spaghetti with meat sauce and Garlic bread. They had a carbonated beverage machine like the ones in convenience stores, and they had Gatorade and bottled water lined up in ice, all right before we played USC.

When visiting my family members at the USC hotel, I looked into their banquet room about mid afternoon. There were no carbs at all in there, other than a big bowl of crackers and a stoneware thing of croutons by this huge salad bar. They were eating iced down yogurt, applesauce and fruit cups and a bunch of other whole fruits, veggies, and no carb entrees except for peel and eat shrimp and some trays of sushi. I think the only cooked food was the shrimp. The drinks were those power type drinks and bottled water.

The night before the game our team watched the Trojans movie with Brad Pitt.

My sister, who's Goddaughter was a Trojan trainer said the Trojans football team were all in different rooms according to squads, watching OU game film all night.

Thats why I wondered who mad dog was. I though he might have been our nutritionist. :)


Seriously though, about this agility thing. I would give anything if they would just try it next season.

[MamaMia]

How do you know they don't incorporate yoga, pilates, etc., into the workouts? Most personal trainers these days incorporate multiple disciplines into S&C training. I'm not saying they do, I'm just wondering what info you have about the exact nature of the training jarhead Schmitty does. I honestly don't know for certain. I sponsor underprivileged boys to attend the football clinics so we have made some field trips. I use to take the kids to watch them practice and workout through the big glass windows by the Switzer Center, and we have been invited to watch them practice inside the Everest Training Center. I have never seen nor heard that they do anything such as what I am suggesting. I believe that there would be something on soonersports.com or somewhere, if they were doing such a thing.

[rainiersooner]

Mama - here's an interesting article I just read in the NY Times - here's the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/sports/football/kris-jenkinss-view-of-life-in-the-nfl-trenches.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1


With a lot of teams, the methods of strength and conditioning across the N.F.L. are outdated. I’m a kinesiology major. Teams aren’t focused on core stability. You’re doing intense lifting, and you’re top-loading yourself. There’s no base. That’s why a lot of guys have knee problems, hip problems. Those are the things that get neglected, based on this outdated strength system.

What's fascinating is Kris Jenkins' thoughts about S&C in the NFL...basically when you're talking about yoga, pilates, etc., that's what you're talking about...core fitness.

Anyway, just thought you'd find that interesting based on your comments and observations.....

[Breadburner]

Lol....Some peoples kids.....

[Sooner in Tampa]

Well, I think another issue is that OU doesn't release information on injuries so they speculate. Like I said, I'd be all for another S&C coordinator.
I am seriously starting to wonder about Smitty...

[Curly Bill]

Never been a fan of Smitty...I know (not close friends or nothing) a S&C coach for an SEC team who's not a fan either, and this guy is acquainted with what the Sooners do.

[MamaMia]

Mama - here's an interesting article I just read in the NY Times - here's the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/sports/football/kris-jenkinss-view-of-life-in-the-nfl-trenches.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

What's fascinating is Kris Jenkins' thoughts about S&C in the NFL...basically when you're talking about yoga, pilates, etc., that's what you're talking about...core fitness.

Anyway, just thought you'd find that interesting based on your comments and observations.....Thank you. I think this gentleman is on to something. I did a search on him and his views. He makes a lot of sense and I just have a feeling that it would help our players. Anything that may help our team, I'm all for at least trying.

Maybe they will reevaluate some S/C methods and try some of these things. If I get a chance, I'll put a bug in Schmittys ear. ;)

[Curly Bill]

Thank you. I think this gentleman is on to something. I did a search on him and his views. He makes a lot of sense and I just have a feeling that it would help our players. Anything that may help our team, I'm all for at least trying.

Maybe they will reevaluate some S/C methods and try some of these things. If I get a chance, I'll put a bug in Schmittys ear. ;)

I'll give ya $20 to put something besides a bug in it. ;)

[MamaMia]

I'll give ya $20 to put something besides a bug in it. ;)I'm going to be nice. Twice now, I have talked to him for a few seconds. Who knows, I may get to see him before this Spring. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Ha ha ha

Oh, and I'll make a folder of information to give him. It may end up in the garbage, but its worth a try. I am totally willing to make a fool out of myself if I think it may help the players. :O

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

This is off topic but...I got nosy when we were at TGOWWDNS. I peeked in and watched the Sooners eating piles and piles of pancakes and then piles of spaghetti with meat sauce and Garlic bread. They had a carbonated beverage machine like the ones in convenience stores, and they had Gatorade and bottled water lined up in ice, all right before we played USC.

When visiting my family members at the USC hotel, I looked into their banquet room about mid afternoon. There were no carbs at all in there, other than a big bowl of crackers and a stoneware thing of croutons by this huge salad bar. They were eating iced down yogurt, applesauce and fruit cups and a bunch of other whole fruits, veggies, and no carb entrees except for peel and eat shrimp and some trays of sushi. I think the only cooked food was the shrimp. The drinks were those power type drinks and bottled water.

The night before the game our team watched the Trojans movie with Brad Pitt.

My sister, who's Goddaughter was a Trojan trainer said the Trojans football team were all in different rooms according to squads, watching OU game film all night.

Thats why I wondered who mad dog was. I though he might have been our nutritionist. :)


Seriously though, about this agility thing. I would give anything if they would just try it next season.

That USC game boiled down to 2 things -> Turnovers and the mismatch between their nose tackle (Odezi?) and Vince Carter. A turnover neutral game, we lose by 3. A lot of people forget that we scored fairly easily on them and held them to a punt before we allowed them to real off 21 straight points off of 3 turnovers.

[MamaMia]

That USC game boiled down to 2 things -> Turnovers and the mismatch between their nose tackle (Odezi?) and Vince Carter. A turnover neutral game, we lose by 3. A lot of people forget that we scored fairly easily on them and held them to a punt before we allowed them to real off 21 straight points off of 3 turnovers.I forgot that part. I forgot it all, except for the bar being right next to my seat and up a few steps.

[StoopTroup]

It would be great if they could get Insurance Companies to cover the views of Kinesiology for more than just guys that played a little Football. There are plenty of folks who would or could have their lives improved by the findings and Techniques that these Studies prove out.

[StoopTroup]

Insurance Companies are OK with Cortisone shots though.

From the Article: Most stay away from cortisone now, because it’s degenerative.

Imagine if Doctors and insurance Companies would get back to helping people with Quality of Life instead of how profitable procedures/surgeries are or aren't?

[Breadburner]

Hopefully we win out and these stupid threads will stop.....

[OU_Sooners75]

Murray did MMA training, which isn't agility training per se. You state these things as fact, yet if you watch us lift, we do a ton of agility drills.

Not the agility that is killing us.

MMA training teaches a lot of different positions that makes you more and more flexible.

The problem with lifting weights and not concentrating heavily on flexibility as well is your muscles, ligaments, and tendons will be tight. And when they get stretched past their normal flexibility level they will tear, sprain, and break.

Agility is not so much flexibility as it is learning hows to control what your body can do. Agility is where you teach your body how to change different positions or levels.

A lot of NFL programs will have available a lot of dance and tumbling classes to teach flexibility of the players.



A lot of our injuries have been ACL, MCL, bone breaks, and concussions. You cannot train your body to defend against concussions (that I am aware of) but you can train your body to have the flexibility where you will have less risk of ligament tears and muscle strains...Flexibility.

Being a little more flexible will also help you lessen the risk of bone breaks as well.

[toast]

Hopefully we win out and these stupid threads will stop.....


I don't know, I was thinking about looking to see if there was a problem with the types of planes/buses they use to transport the team...

[OU_Sooners75]

Hopefully we win out and these stupid threads will stop.....


Why are they stupid? Because they are not pumping sunshine up your *** or what?

Serious...name one other team that has had the injuries OU has had the last 4 years.

It is a very reasonable thread. Just some misinformation I think.

[rainiersooner]

Hopefully we win out and these stupid threads will stop.....

You don't have to read it, but thanks for your contribution.

I don't know whether we have more injuries than other teams...I do think an interesting discussion can be had about the type of training S&C coaches focus on at different programs. That to me is interesting. Guess that's the great thing about the internet...you can "surf it" when you're bored with the topic on your screen.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Why are they stupid? Because they are not pumping sunshine up your *** or what?

Serious...name one other team that has had the injuries OU has had the last 4 years.

It is a very reasonable thread. Just some misinformation I think.

The problem is that we don't follow other teams well enough to know anything but injuries to superstars (like lemichael james etc). Like I said above, I think Sam's injury was definitely preventable with practice. Whaley's? TLewis? Broken bones are hard to prevent. Broyles' injury may or may not have been preventable -> going all ballerina on a football field puts some weird torque on joints.

Also, I'm not familiar with what goes on in our S&C program outside of several videos i've seen over the years. I know they are huge on target BMI which may be leading to the inflexibility that you are talking about. All that I've ever seen is them doing workouts weighted down, I've never seen them doing those same drills unweighted (which you are supposed to do for flexibility). Heck, even when I was in high school we used to have several batting practice sessions with whiffle ball bats to keep our backs flexible.

[OU_Sooners75]

jkm,

I dont think you can really prevent any injuries...outside of not playing.

That said being more flexible can lessen the likelihood of injuries.

I do not know what their regiment is either. But if all they are doing is lifting, running, cardio, agility, then they need to get some flexibility worked in too.

[Landthief 1972]

That USC game boiled down to 2 things -> Turnovers and the mismatch between their nose tackle (Odezi?) and Vince Carter. A turnover neutral game, we lose by 3. A lot of people forget that we scored fairly easily on them and held them to a punt before we allowed them to real off 21 straight points off of 3 turnovers.

I remember LenDale White gutting our D line like a hot knife in butter, which freed up TwinkleToes to sling the ball at will.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

jkm,

I dont think you can really prevent any injuries...outside of not playing.

That said being more flexible can lessen the likelihood of injuries.

I do not know what their regiment is either. But if all they are doing is lifting, running, cardio, agility, then they need to get some flexibility worked in too.

There are injuries that can be prevented -> Leading with your head down and getting hurt, not trying to catch yourself when you are being tackled, etc. That was Sam's problem, he tried to catch himself on that sack with his elbow, ouch.

[toast]

Paul Thompson is on the radio every week in Tulsa, it may be worth a call just to see what their s&c program consists of.

[Eielson]

Smitty has to go. I know football is a violent sport, but our star players are going down every year. Something has to be done. We've had too many injuries to call them all freak accidents or just plain bad luck.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I remember LenDale White gutting our D line like a hot knife in butter, which freed up TwinkleToes to sling the ball at will.

Here is the play by play:

http://statcrew.com/gifs/newstyle_fb_playbyplay.pdf

It was actually Byrd in the deep middle that killed us at first. Notice the sequence:

We score easily
They score easily up the seam
Bradley drops an easy 3rd down catch, we punt
they punt
Bradley tries to pick up the ball at the 6, they get it punch it in
We throw an INT, they punch it in
We throw an INT, they punch it in
We march down the field and they make a 1 on 1 play on Mark Clayton - Field goal (28-10)
At that point, we give up a run to bush and a long pass and its 35-10 and over

[OU_Sooners75]

There are injuries that can be prevented -> Leading with your head down and getting hurt, not trying to catch yourself when you are being tackled, etc. That was Sam's problem, he tried to catch himself on that sack with his elbow, ouch.
Thats not exactly what I was meaning. there is no way you can stop an injury if enough force is applied.

I know there are ways to prevent injuries when talking about fundamentals.

[OU_Sooners75]

Smitty has to go. I know football is a violent sport, but our star players are going down every year. Something has to be done. We've had too many injuries to call them all freak accidents or just plain bad luck.

Sarcasm?

[tcrb]

I didn't read the entire thread, but earlier this year I did a little research on the number of injuries OU has as compared to other teams. I found a website that lists the cumulative injuries for each team as the season passes. Comparatively, OU actually has had fewer injuries than many other teams. Compared to nebraska and auburn, we're not doing that bad. Link1 (teams A-M) (http://www.goldsheet.com/cfootball_injuriesam.php)Link2 (teams N-Z) (http://www.goldsheet.com/cfootball_injuriesnz.php)

[cccasooner2]

Take a look. :)

http://ezinearticles.com/?Agility-Training-For-Martial-Arts&id=5315386

Incorporating some Yoga wouldn't hurt either. It would help actually.



Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/5315386"


"...........conflict resolution education into a powerful way of living with balance, honor, and integrity."

Sweet, how could one not like this. :gary:

[OU_Sooners75]

I didn't read the entire thread, but earlier this year I did a little research on the number of injuries OU has as compared to other teams. I found a website that lists the cumulative injuries for each team as the season passes. Comparatively, OU actually has had fewer injuries than many other teams. Compared to nebraska and auburn, we're not doing that bad. Link1 (teams A-M) (http://www.goldsheet.com/cfootball_injuriesam.php)Link2 (teams N-Z) (http://www.goldsheet.com/cfootball_injuriesnz.php)

Nice find....


But that looks to be just this year. and current injured players. And it does not have Ronnell Lewis on there.

[NormanPride]

I remember Auburn was decimated by injuries in one of the recent years... But I've never seen anything like what we've had the last three years.

[oudivesherpa]

I didn't read the entire thread, but earlier this year I did a little research on the number of injuries OU has as compared to other teams. I found a website that lists the cumulative injuries for each team as the season passes. Comparatively, OU actually has had fewer injuries than many other teams. Compared to nebraska and auburn, we're not doing that bad. Link1 (teams A-M) (http://www.goldsheet.com/cfootball_injuriesam.php)Link2 (teams N-Z) (http://www.goldsheet.com/cfootball_injuriesnz.php)

LOOK AT LSU! ONLY ONE PERSON OUT (A GUARD) OUT. NO OTHER INJURIES. NO WONDER THEY ARE #1!

[cvsooner]

We've had a run of bad luck the past couple of years, so far as injuries go. How much of it is due to our s & c program, I can't say. Maybe we just need to play more cupcakes on our schedule.

[C&CDean]

Wow. Just wow. We lose a couple games and after we've crucified the coaches now we're gonna hang the S&C coach up on the yardarm as well. People, get a grip. Sheez.

Schmitty is as well respected in the business as any S&C guy at any school. WTF is wrong with you people? There is evidence to support that OU has less injuries than most schools. No, I ain't gonna find it, but it's out there. jkm, I'm especially concerned with your deal on this. You're an x's and o's guy, but on this one, you're a brick short of a load. Sam's shoulder injury could happen to anyone at any time. You get blind-sided you don't have time to prepare. I'm an ex-paratrooper. We learned to land by practicing it thousands of times. Every so often, guess what? You get blind-sided and you pile in like a giant sack of ****.

I ain't saying some dance/gayllet/agility/whatever training wouldn't help, cause it does help. In fact, they do a bunch of agility/stretch/balance stuff already. Simply put, we're snakebit. The law of averages will sway our way some day. Think 2000. Did we have a single significant injury to a key starter (other than Heupel's elbow who still hung in there)? It's luck. Fate. Karma.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Wow. Just wow. We lose a couple games and after we've crucified the coaches now we're gonna hang the S&C coach up on the yardarm as well. People, get a grip. Sheez.

Schmitty is as well respected in the business as any S&C guy at any school. WTF is wrong with you people? There is evidence to support that OU has less injuries than most schools. No, I ain't gonna find it, but it's out there. jkm, I'm especially concerned with your deal on this. You're an x's and o's guy, but on this one, you're a brick short of a load. Sam's shoulder injury could happen to anyone at any time. You get blind-sided you don't have time to prepare. I'm an ex-paratrooper. We learned to land by practicing it thousands of times. Every so often, guess what? You get blind-sided and you pile in like a giant sack of ****.

I ain't saying some dance/gayllet/agility/whatever training wouldn't help, cause it does help. In fact, they do a bunch of agility/stretch/balance stuff already. Simply put, we're snakebit. The law of averages will sway our way some day. Think 2000. Did we have a single significant injury to a key starter (other than Heupel's elbow who still hung in there)? It's luck. Fate. Karma.

Except that Sam resembled a paratrooper who had no training and was pushed out of a plane. Those hits from that BYU guy were not knockout shots where he was bounced off the turf. They were slow falls where he had plenty of time to protect himself. He then does the exact same thing against Texas several games later.

[C&CDean]

Except that Sam resembled a paratrooper who had no training and was pushed out of a plane. Those hits from that BYU guy were not knockout shots where he was bounced off the turf. They were slow falls where he had plenty of time to protect himself. He then does the exact same thing against Texas several games later.

Which means what? Seriously, you gonna blame the shoulder deal on Schmitty? He got pinched. Once your shoulder/collar bone is tender, you're pretty much ****ed until it heals. In the BYU game (you're gonna make me go watch it again) Sam had no clue the guy was fixin' to drill him. NO. CLUE. He hit him just so....boom goes the shoulder. It happens. I've broken my right collar bone once. My left twice. I know how to crash a motorcycle. Sometimes though, that damn pavement just comes up and meets you kinda funky like.

[ashley]

Dumb post.

[OU_Sooners75]

Wow. Just wow. We lose a couple games and after we've crucified the coaches now we're gonna hang the S&C coach up on the yardarm as well. People, get a grip. Sheez.

Schmitty is as well respected in the business as any S&C guy at any school. WTF is wrong with you people? There is evidence to support that OU has less injuries than most schools. No, I ain't gonna find it, but it's out there. jkm, I'm especially concerned with your deal on this. You're an x's and o's guy, but on this one, you're a brick short of a load. Sam's shoulder injury could happen to anyone at any time. You get blind-sided you don't have time to prepare. I'm an ex-paratrooper. We learned to land by practicing it thousands of times. Every so often, guess what? You get blind-sided and you pile in like a giant sack of ****.

I ain't saying some dance/gayllet/agility/whatever training wouldn't help, cause it does help. In fact, they do a bunch of agility/stretch/balance stuff already. Simply put, we're snakebit. The law of averages will sway our way some day. Think 2000. Did we have a single significant injury to a key starter (other than Heupel's elbow who still hung in there)? It's luck. Fate. Karma.


I see one person going after schmitty....

That said, a lot of the injuries we have endured, are not from the S&C...it is the bodies seems too tight or not as flexible as most.

Maybe they have too much muscle on their bodies? If so, they need flex training too.

Not sure why you get all pissy when someone expresses displeasure with a coach or the entire coaching staff.

Love ya bro...but chillax. Let each and everyone of us have our opinions, even if they aren't full of sunshine.

[the_edge]

OU's "problem" with injuries isn't so much that we've had starters out for a significant amount of time, it's had more to do with the fact that the second team guys that have come in to replace them haven't played very well.

And before somebody says, "Duh!," I don't necessarily believe that being second team at a supposed preseason #1 team should mean you can't play football.

[StoopTroup]

Not sure why you get all pissy when someone expresses displeasure with a coach or the entire coaching staff.



Maybe because the entire 1st page of this wonderful Thread was based on some BS someone heard from a Friend of Michelle Bachman's who had a Mother come up to her and tell her that her Daughter's Brain was ravaged after she was given a gardasil shot?

Seriously....we all hate losing but I still haven't really seen anything that proves any of the BS we are talking about hasn't been done, Tried, Ruled out by Smitty or verified that it was why other Teams that have seasons with Zero or few injuries that used such techniques or they just got lucky.

What is good for one player might not be good for another and I'm sure the coaches at OU are more than concerned about it as anyone. I won't say that it didn't make for some interesting reading at some point but I still don't believe anyone here has enough real information to uncover the Story of the year and bring an end to all of our injury woes. It's more just a kind of everyone feeling sincerely concerned that someone should do something when they really don't know anything about what goes on with our Players during the off Season. It's all really just because Bob doesn't talk about such things to any of us and if he had the answer why would he want to give his competition an edge like that? I think he's the kind of guy that would based on how he gives of himself with Children. I'm sure the percentage of Coaches in Football would all be solving such a problem if there was a way to lower the percentages.

This thread kind of implies that Stoops doesn't give a **** IMO. I don't like it and I think Dean is right.

[StoopTroup]

Smitty has to go. I know football is a violent sport, but our star players are going down every year. Something has to be done. We've had too many injuries to call them all freak accidents or just plain bad luck.


It's quotes like this that really help....lol

[StoopTroup]

If AD had done some yoga he might have avoided that darn Collarbone Injury.....

[swardboy]

If AD had done some yoga he might have avoided that darn Collarbone Injury.....

NO NO! He should have been taking flying lessons. If Smitty would incorporate flying lessons Broyles would have landed properly as would AD trying to get into the endzone when he got that injury.

[tcrb]

Football is a violently physical sport. Injuries happen to every team. My bet is than on average over time, OU does not have any more injuries than any other team. But as fans of OU, we are inherently more cognoscente of the injuries that happen on our roster than we are of those to other teams. Again, take a good look at the link in my earlier post for some perspective. Auburn has been decimated with injuries since early in the season and so has Nebraska. There are a bunch of other teams too that have had more injuries than us this year. OU actually did really well until Whaley went down, and then Broyles. Now Ronnell (I'm not sure why he's not listed yet on the link). But LSU hasn't had many injuries and virtually no season-ending ones....similar to OUr team in 2000. Like Dean said, it's more fate than anything. Our conditioning program is as good as anyone's. The bigger problem is that we dont have enough quality depth to recover when one of the starters does go down.

[C&CDean]

I see one person going after schmitty....

That said, a lot of the injuries we have endured, are not from the S&C...it is the bodies seems too tight or not as flexible as most.

Maybe they have too much muscle on their bodies? If so, they need flex training too.

Not sure why you get all pissy when someone expresses displeasure with a coach or the entire coaching staff.

Love ya bro...but chillax. Let each and everyone of us have our opinions, even if they aren't full of sunshine.

Anyone blaming our injuries on S&C are going after Schmitty.

It ain't sunshine I'm looking for. I'm looking for wins.

I can handle people's opinions - up until they go full-out stupid. I can tolerate people like CB and marty ragging out the coaches ad nauseum because they go stupid 24/7 - not just when we lose a game or two. The most serious offenders are the ones who make the pinnacle of stupid comment "Stoops ain't never fired anyone and he never will." They are so far beyond clueless there's no hope for them. Has he fired Venables? No. Why? Because he's an outstanding DC and coach. (yeah, I know, have an opinion...blah blah blah)

My problem is with people just automatically going "I'm gonna go to the lowest common denominator...yeah, fire the ****ing coaches." And make no mistake about it, that's what they're doing. If a guy blows a coverage? ****ing coach. If a guy drops a pass? Wasn't coached up well enough. If a guy jumps offside? Must not have covered that one in practice. If a guy gets hurt? Schmitty bulks them up too much. If Bob punts on 4-and 1? Man, I miss big play Bob. He's gone all ***** on us.

When people chillax, Big Daddy will chillax. I will jump right on board the "fire coach xx" bandwagon when coach xx deserves it. Am I saying they don't make mistakes? Hell no. However, their mistakes aren't losing us games. Other folks' mistakes are. Watch the dang tape.

And I love you too bro.

[TXBOOMER]

Ou runs 30% more plays on offense than most teams. I guess I would expect 30% more injuries on offense. Defense has got to the point where they can't get off of the field so I would expect they are running more plays than the average college defense. As far as doing agility drills. Please, they do world class strength and conditioning and injury prevention training. They do not have twice as many injuries as other major college football programs. If that were a fact it would be all you here about every time someone was laying on the turf.

[TXBOOMER]

If AD had done some yoga he might have avoided that darn Collarbone Injury.....

LOL

[OU_Sooners75]

If AD had done some yoga he might have avoided that darn Collarbone Injury.....

I know it is beyond your capacity to think for yourself Greg, but come on.

There is more flex training than Yoga.

[OU_Sooners75]

Anyone blaming our injuries on S&C are going after Schmitty.

It ain't sunshine I'm looking for. I'm looking for wins.

I can handle people's opinions - up until they go full-out stupid. I can tolerate people like CB and marty ragging out the coaches ad nauseum because they go stupid 24/7 - not just when we lose a game or two. The most serious offenders are the ones who make the pinnacle of stupid comment "Stoops ain't never fired anyone and he never will." They are so far beyond clueless there's no hope for them. Has he fired Venables? No. Why? Because he's an outstanding DC and coach. (yeah, I know, have an opinion...blah blah blah)

My problem is with people just automatically going "I'm gonna go to the lowest common denominator...yeah, fire the ****ing coaches." And make no mistake about it, that's what they're doing. If a guy blows a coverage? ****ing coach. If a guy drops a pass? Wasn't coached up well enough. If a guy jumps offside? Must not have covered that one in practice. If a guy gets hurt? Schmitty bulks them up too much. If Bob punts on 4-and 1? Man, I miss big play Bob. He's gone all ***** on us.

When people chillax, Big Daddy will chillax. I will jump right on board the "fire coach xx" bandwagon when coach xx deserves it. Am I saying they don't make mistakes? Hell no. However, their mistakes aren't losing us games. Other folks' mistakes are. Watch the dang tape.

And I love you too bro.

On the coaching thing...I for one don't necessarily think coaches being fired is the answer...per say...but I do have my opinions on a few of the coaches that could be replaced.

That said, the Tampa 2 defense just isn't working in this league anymore. We need coaches that are brave enough to admit that and make appropriate changes.

As far as injuries. Broken bones are hard to prevent, but it does seem OU has been suffering from a lot of ACL and ligament/tendon injuries.

I love having coach Schmitty. I dont know what is regiment is. But if they are not doing flex exercises, then their bodies can become tight and more prone to injuries of the joints. But I damn sure aint blamin Schmitty.

FTR, I do honestly think Stoops should get rid of Willie Martinez, Bruce Kittle (sp?) and James Patton at the very least. But that is my opinion.

[C&CDean]

On the coaching thing...I for one don't necessarily think coaches being fired is the answer...per say...but I do have my opinions on a few of the coaches that could be replaced.

That said, the Tampa 2 defense just isn't working in this league anymore. We need coaches that are brave enough to admit that and make appropriate changes.

FTR, I do honestly think Stoops should get rid of Willie Martinez and James Patton at the very least. But that is my opinion.

You may be right, but only a complete suicidal coach would try to replace a defensive philosophy mid-season. Unless they just go "**** it, y'all go out there and rip heads off, **** down necks, break legs, and if the QB is still standing after the 1st quarter you're coming out and somebody else is going in. Assignments bassignments, kill somebody."

FTR, I think we need to recruit a lot better at DB.

[Mississippi Sooner]

FTR, I think we need to recruit a lot better at DB.

Hmmm. Might have something there.

[rainiersooner]

I remember after the GOWWDNS several people wanted to fire the shoe-coach.

[swardboy]

I remember after the GOWWDNS several people wanted to fire the shoe-coach.

I haven't noticed that problem recently, but there was a time there when I went nuts over our slipping slippers.

[OU_Sooners75]

You may be right, but only a complete suicidal coach would try to replace a defensive philosophy mid-season. Unless they just go "**** it, y'all go out there and rip heads off, **** down necks, break legs, and if the QB is still standing after the 1st quarter you're coming out and somebody else is going in. Assignments bassignments, kill somebody."

FTR, I think we need to recruit a lot better at DB.

That is the philosophy we need! LOL

And yes, we definitely need better DBs.

at the shack here is what I wrote...right or wrong..I dont know:


That all said, the best way that has been found to defend the spread....bring lots and lots of pressure every down.

You have to have disciplined DBs. You have to have DBs that can cover man to man as well are superb zone coverage guys. They also have to trust the front 7 in stopping the run.


The DL has to be quick, agile and agressive. But they also have to be passive aggressive, in where they do not always over pursue the rush that will cause problems on delays and draws.


The LBs have to be able to cover the slots. If that means the defense evolves into the OLBs being the Tony Jefferson types, then go for it. The OLB have to have the ability and speed to cover slots and RBs. The MLB has to have the ability to stuff the run and play an underneath zone/spy.

[jkjsooner]

Mama - here's an interesting article I just read in the NY Times - here's the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/sports/football/kris-jenkinss-view-of-life-in-the-nfl-trenches.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1



What's fascinating is Kris Jenkins' thoughts about S&C in the NFL...basically when you're talking about yoga, pilates, etc., that's what you're talking about...core fitness.

Anyway, just thought you'd find that interesting based on your comments and observations.....

A couple of points:

1. Have you ever seen these NFL guys without shirts on? (Please spare the homo comments.) The ones who have lower body fat are generally ripped in the abs. I don't believe for a second that core strength is not incorporated in their workouts.

2. Recent studies have shown that core strength if vastly overrated when it comes to athletic performance. The studies were more about performance than injury prevention but I think the latest thinking is that core strength (while it is important to maintain proportion) has been overstated over the last 20 or so years. More recent thinking has led many to conclude that "training for your sport" will build core strength in a more natural way.

[jkjsooner]

Ou runs 30% more plays on offense than most teams. I guess I would expect 30% more injuries on offense. Defense has got to the point where they can't get off of the field so I would expect they are running more plays than the average college defense. As far as doing agility drills. Please, they do world class strength and conditioning and injury prevention training. They do not have twice as many injuries as other major college football programs. If that were a fact it would be all you here about every time someone was laying on the turf.

Actually this is a very good point. I'd bet we run a lot more plays (offensively and defensively) than most teams. That does mean we're at a slightly higher risk.

The recent problem hasn't been injuries as much as injuries to the best players. I think that can only be explained by bad luck.

I saw the OP mentioned Kelly. Whatever dude was doing either didn't work or he stopped doing it before arriving in the NFL. He constantly had hamstring injuries and the Redskins coaches blamed his lack of physical fitness as being the primary factor.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Which means what? Seriously, you gonna blame the shoulder deal on Schmitty? He got pinched. Once your shoulder/collar bone is tender, you're pretty much ****ed until it heals. In the BYU game (you're gonna make me go watch it again) Sam had no clue the guy was fixin' to drill him. NO. CLUE. He hit him just so....boom goes the shoulder. It happens. I've broken my right collar bone once. My left twice. I know how to crash a motorcycle. Sometimes though, that damn pavement just comes up and meets you kinda funky like.

Yes, but what you failed to mention was that you sacraficed your collarbone so you didn't spill your beer.

I'll give you an example: I played a TON of pickup basketball when I was at OU. When you go in for layups, there is a natural tendency for you to watch your shot after you shoot it even if you get hammered. I wasn't any different than anyone else until I landed on someone's foot and ripped every tendon in my ankle. At that point, I had to "TRAIN" myself to not watch the shot, but to look down so that I didn't land on someone's foot. Or if Aubrey Beavers did a flying hip check into me on a layup that I watched where he knocked me instead of watching the shot and plowing into one of those stone pillars by the steps in Huffman.

That is the training I'm talking about with Sam. He is watching the ball after he let it go instead of immediately snapping back and protecting himself from the pressure. Also remember that these guys are going 10-12 MPH not 40. There is a lot more time than you realize to react and brace yourself.

[8timechamps]

We all know that the human body is not built for football. I can't believe that OU (or any other serious football program) hasn't researched and incorporated the latest in S&C drills/preparation.

We've all heard that one of the major keys to winning a championship is keeping everyone healthy. That's exactly why LSU is #1. Much like why we won it all in 2000.

A one or two year compilation of injury statistics doesn't really tell enough to point the finger at any one particular thing (or coach). If there was an extensive database of injuries, say over a 10 year span, then you could draw some conclusions. I'm sure OU keeps tabs on all of that.

In the end, we've had a really unfortunate string of injuries the past few seasons. Law of averages at work again.

[cvsooner]

At least the known injuries don't look like they're out of line with everybody else's. Some teams have fewer; some have more.

http://sportsdirect.usatoday.com/football/ncaaf-injuries.aspx?page=/data/ncaaf/injury/injuries.html

[pphilfran]

Murray said they didn't and he was doing yoga on his own which really increased his flexibility and recovery from the hammy.

I guess it didn't stop his injury...

[cvsooner]

Murray changed his workout routine after the dislocated kneecap and the hamstring injury in successive years. He did play injury-free in his senior year.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

here is the article

http://newsok.com/ou-football-demarco-murray-quinton-carter-work-with-mma-trainers/article/3488753

[jkjsooner]

That is the training I'm talking about with Sam. He is watching the ball after he let it go instead of immediately snapping back and protecting himself from the pressure. Also remember that these guys are going 10-12 MPH not 40. There is a lot more time than you realize to react and brace yourself.

I'm no QB coach but I'd guess "snapping back and protecting" yourself could easily lead to poor fundamentals - i.e. not following through on your throw. The natural instinct would be to begin the protecting action a little too soon.

[cccasooner2]

I'm no QB coach but I'd guess "snapping back and protecting" yourself could easily lead to poor fundamentals - i.e. not following through on your throw. The natural instinct would be to begin the protecting action a little too soon.

Made me think of the Sanchez flinch where he was set at receiver I think. :D

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm no QB coach but I'd guess "snapping back and protecting" yourself could easily lead to poor fundamentals - i.e. not following through on your throw. The natural instinct would be to begin the protecting action a little too soon.

How does the follow through influence the flight of the ball?

;)

[StoopTroup]

Jimmy Stephens is the Teams Yogurt Instructor.

[hornswaggled]

IIRC Schmitty was the S&C coach in 2000. I remember him getting a lot of credit for helping the team win a National Championship.

[jkjsooner]

How does the follow through influence the flight of the ball?

;)

Ever heard of follow through in basketball? Yes, after a ball is released it is on it's trajectory and nothing the shooter/passer does can influence it. If you properly follow through you guarantee that your fundamentals are sound throughout the period where the ball is in contact with the player. If you try to cut short your follow through inevitably you will alter your motion while the ball is still in contact with the player.

If we were precise machines that could replicated virtually identical motion time after time then the follow through concept would probably be meaningless. We're not and we need tools to make us as consistent as possible. Keeping your entire motion as continuous and fluid as possible is such a tool.

Same with kicking field goals and punting. These guys are as exposed as anyone after their activities complete. Would you want them to take a defensive posture immediately after the foot left the ball? I've watched enough kicks and punts to know that they don't do that.

My specific knowledge is more from a basketball perspective but the same concept applies to many sports.

[MamaMia]

IIRC Schmitty was the S&C coach in 2000. I remember him getting a lot of credit for helping the team win a National Championship. Who didn't? Even I personally got a lot of congratulations way back then. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/smilies/giggle.gif

[hornswaggled]

Who didn't? Even I personally got a lot of congratulations way back then. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/OUmom/smilies/giggle.gif

I'm sure you deserved it. ;)

[sooneron]

FYI, AD and Sam both did Pilates while at OU. They were encouraged to do so, by DUH DUH DUH!!! Schmitty. Maybe he need to make it more mandatory, I'm willing to bet that a lot of guys are too lazy to bother with it and they want the glorified size and speed.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Ever heard of follow through in basketball? Yes, after a ball is released it is on it's trajectory and nothing the shooter/passer does can influence it. If you properly follow through you guarantee that your fundamentals are sound throughout the period where the ball is in contact with the player. If you try to cut short your follow through inevitably you will alter your motion while the ball is still in contact with the player.

If we were precise machines that could replicated virtually identical motion time after time then the follow through concept would probably be meaningless. We're not and we need tools to make us as consistent as possible. Keeping your entire motion as continuous and fluid as possible is such a tool.

Same with kicking field goals and punting. These guys are as exposed as anyone after their activities complete. Would you want them to take a defensive posture immediately after the foot left the ball? I've watched enough kicks and punts to know that they don't do that.

My specific knowledge is more from a basketball perspective but the same concept applies to many sports.

I guess the point I was going to make is that there are a lot of coaches who exagerate the follow through because they think it does influence the throw. How many times have you seen our QBs just hold the follow through after a throw even until the receiver catches it. It is perfectly okay to throw it and when your arms hits then end of its motion disconnect from the target.

To equate it to basketball, what I see our QBs doing is shooting the jump shot and landing with their hands still in the follow through motion. Then backing up as it goes through the hoop with the hand still up there. When, in most cases, you are done with your followthrough before your body begins its downward decent. There is plenty of time to disconnect from the ball look down to make sure nothing is underneath you and then reconnect with the ball (I mean you shot it, you know where its going).

[NormanPride]

I thought Sam's injury was because his arm was pinned by the defender and he couldn't catch his fall. Same thing happened to Romo either that year or next, I think.

[StoopTroup]

Sam got hurt because of a really hard Downward Dog.

[StoopTroup]

FYI, AD and Sam both did Pilates while at OU. They were encouraged to do so, by DUH DUH DUH!!! Schmitty. Maybe he need to make it more mandatory, I'm willing to bet that a lot of guys are too lazy to bother with it and they want the glorified size and speed.

It's so damn funny when the truth comes out that the players are all instructed in what the best things to do to avoid injury are and yet....injuries happen.

Football is a violent Game. Just in HS alone I had two concussions just from practice drills. I didn't get a starting position because I told the Coaches I am the guy they needed at DE. I remember back then that at that point in time we were all being told that some athletes were doing Ballet to help avoid injury because of the stretching that was involved and the specific muscle training that is involved in Ballet. Of course if any of the guys took Ballet it was in private and because it was rumored that the Ballet Instructor was hot and really liked young guys. :D