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okie52
11/21/2011, 12:07 PM
Democrats to protest immigration crackdowns


By Deborah Barfield Berry, Gannett Washington Bureau


The 10 Democrats, including Rep. Terri Sewell of Birmingham, will participate in an ad hoc hearing on the immigration law and later help launch a petition to repeal it at the historic 16th St. Baptist Church in Birmingham. The church was the site of the 1963 bombing that killed four little girls during the civil rights movement.

"The history of fighting for justice and fighting for basic rights is still alive in Alabama," said Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., who is heading the trip. "Indeed, a lot of what we know about social movements, about social change and fighting for justice, we learned from the people of Alabama less than a generation ago."

Supporters of the law, considered one of the toughest in the country, welcome the federal lawmakers.

"We live in America. The First Amendment gives them the right to come and say what they want to say," said State Republican Rep. Kerry Rich, a co-sponsor of the measure. "Some of these people are comparing this to 1961 or the civil rights days. Here's the difference - in the 1960s . . . Alabama was wrong for what it was doing. "

Today, he said, the state is right to press for better enforcement of federal immigration laws.

"What we're upset about is they won't enforce the law," Rich said of federal officials. "That's where the breakdown comes."

The fight between state and federal lawmakers continues to escalate as more states, including Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi, adopt their own immigration-related laws.

That tension is "probably going to get worse before it gets better," said Audrey Singer, immigration expert at the Brookings Institution. "This has become such a divisive issue that people off the top are willing to go to battle. . . . There's tension between what the feds can do and what the states can do."

"It's not pretty, but resolving this issue is becoming an increasingly important issue across the country," she said.

Last week, Republican senators from the South, including Jim DeMint of South Carolina, Jeff Sessions of Alabama and David Vitter of Louisiana, introduced legislation that would block the Justice Department from suing states like Alabama, Arizona and South Carolina over their new immigration laws.

DeMint called it "absurd" that the Obama administration is trying to stop states.

Vitter said states have stepped up to do what the federal government has neglected to do.

"Washington's only response is to oppose the state's enforcement efforts and take them to court," Vitter said. "We're working to stop these politically driven lawsuits by cutting off the ability for the Obama administration to use taxpayers' money to pay for them."

Sessions said the Justice Department "needs to stop going after states that are taking steps in harmony with federal laws to see that our immigration laws actually are enforced and to help end the lawlessness."

The Justice Department has filed lawsuits against Alabama, Arizona and South Carolina. The agency is also reviewing immigration laws recently passed in Georgia, Indiana and Utah.

DeMint's bill would prohibit the agency from using funds to file lawsuits against the states. He introduced a similar bill in 2010 when Arizona passed its immigration law. The measure, which had some Democratic support, failed.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada called the new laws "extreme" and said Republicans instead should work with Democrats to pass federal immigration reform that is "tough, fair and practical."

Gutierrez said had such a law been in place in the 1960's "you could not have fought the Jim Crow laws of the South."

Constitutional law expert Erwin Chemerinsky said Congress can't tell the president and the attorney general they can't challenge laws they believe are unconstitutional.

"Congress has control over spending, but it can't use it in a way that violates the separation of power," said Chemerinsky, dean of the School of Law at the University of California, Irvine.

State lawmakers, many of them Republicans, said they have been frustrated that Congress hasn't acted on immigration reform.

"What we want the federal government to do is enforce their own law," said Rich.

By the end of June, 40 states had enacted 257 immigration-related laws and resolutions, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

The Alabama law bars state and local agencies from doing business with undocumented immigrants, requires schools to collect information on the legal status of students and allows law enforcement officials during the course of their duties to detain people if they have a "reasonable suspicion" they are in the country illegally.

Rich noted that two federal courts have upheld major provisions of the law.

Earlier this week, Justice Department officials filed a brief with the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta arguing immigration is regulated by the federal government and asking the court to block provisions of the Alabama law.

Gutierrez and other Democrats plan to file their own brief with the court Monday.

"We simply cannot have 50 separate immigration laws," said Gutierrez, who leads the immigration task force of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.

Sewell said she hopes the congressional trip to her district focuses attention on those in Alabama hurt by the new law and the need for federal immigration reform "not the current piecemeal approach that we're seeing across the country."

"What I hope comes from this is to urge some of my colleagues from both sides of the aisle to do something on the federal level," she said.

Gutierrez loves those illegals. And, evidently, we owe them.

Trophy Husband
11/21/2011, 12:33 PM
of course they are, the fewer illegals the fewer democratic voters.

Ton Loc
11/21/2011, 02:38 PM
Two Things:

So...why can't we just enforce the laws that are already on in place that deal with illegal immigration? I don't see how passing more laws help.

Also, comparing this to what happened in the 60s is dumb, disrespectful and shameful.

okie52
11/21/2011, 03:10 PM
Two Things:

So...why can't we just enforce the laws that are already on in place that deal with illegal immigration? I don't see how passing more laws help.

Also, comparing this to what happened in the 60s is dumb, disrespectful and shameful.

I am sure if the laws that are in place were enforced on the federal level the states wouldn't be enacting their own.

And, I agree, the comparison of the 60's to this is ridiculous.

SanJoaquinSooner
11/22/2011, 12:35 AM
Jesus Hernandez Christ, Okie, you're obsessed. I just checked: 94 out of your last 100 posts are immigration related.

Get some help.

Take up another cause -- maybe fight against drunk driving. Form a new chapter of COMADD: Crotchety-Old-Men-Against-Drunk-Driving.

okie52
11/22/2011, 07:32 AM
94/100? Well I wouldn't want you to think I was less than 100% against illegal
immigration.

I'm just trying to offset the work that people like you and Gutierrez do to promote illegal
Immigration. I haven't started a class (like you)for illegals yet although it would be a
great way to
round a few up. Would you like for me to mail you some maps so you can help them find
their way home?

Texting drivers are much worse than drunk drivers. And then there are the uninsured
drivers which are often illegals...now there's a real crime. Something even you should be mad about.

soonercoop1
11/22/2011, 08:40 AM
Looks like most politicians from Illinois should be ignored as many of them are anti-American....

cleller
11/22/2011, 09:16 AM
Have them talk with Obama. He keeps it quiet, but his administration has deported people at a blistering rate compared to Bush.

okie52
11/22/2011, 09:47 AM
Have them talk with Obama. He keeps it quiet, but his administration has deported people at a blistering rate compared to Bush.

That was before his policy change a few months ago. Now, he only deports criminals that have committed crimes other than being illegals.

KantoSooner
11/22/2011, 10:03 AM
Illegals will not stay here without jobs. In a short time, word will get back to Mexico and Centro America that it is next to impossible to survive in the USA because you can't get work.
That's if, of course, it really is hard to get work here.
But it isn't. It's easy to get work here, even for utterly undocumented aliens. Those of us who are not house-bound see these folks every day. We and our government do nothing.

If we want to solve the illegal alien problem, force employers to use EVerify and then start fining and jailing employers who employ illegals. Very simple and already in place.

Go ahead and keep on rounding up and deporting and by all means do whatever is reasonable to enforce border security. But unless and until the supply of 'illegal' jobs dries up, we're all pissing into the wind.

If we want a 'plan' that balances the equities pretty well and takes human decency into account, look no further than 'The Bush Plan'. Don't like 'W'? Fine, relabel it. Call it the 'Obama Plan' for all I care. When push comes to shove, we're not going to come up with anything significantly better.

The fact that we keep returning to this issue like a dog to its vomit is ample proof that at least a large portion of our population is quite satisfied with the status quo.

okie52
11/22/2011, 10:13 AM
Illegals will not stay here without jobs. In a short time, word will get back to Mexico and Centro America that it is next to impossible to survive in the USA because you can't get work.
That's if, of course, it really is hard to get work here.
But it isn't. It's easy to get work here, even for utterly undocumented aliens. Those of us who are not house-bound see these folks every day. We and our government do nothing.

If we want to solve the illegal alien problem, force employers to use EVerify and then start fining and jailing employers who employ illegals. Very simple and already in place.

Go ahead and keep on rounding up and deporting and by all means do whatever is reasonable to enforce border security. But unless and until the supply of 'illegal' jobs dries up, we're all pissing into the wind.

If we want a 'plan' that balances the equities pretty well and takes human decency into account, look no further than 'The Bush Plan'. Don't like 'W'? Fine, relabel it. Call it the 'Obama Plan' for all I care. When push comes to shove, we're not going to come up with anything significantly better.

The fact that we keep returning to this issue like a dog to its vomit is ample proof that at least a large portion of our population is quite satisfied with the status quo.

Everify would be a great start to driving this unwanted hoard out of the US but the Bush plan was terribly flawed...unless you think we owe 12,000,000 plus citizenship. Severe punishment for employers that knowingly hire illegals, denying benefits and having government agencies, schools, hospitals, law enforcement, etc... notifying ICE when illegals are found will get this country cleared out in a hurry.

SanJoaquinSooner
11/22/2011, 10:20 AM
94/100? Well I wouldn't want you to think I was less than 100% against illegal
immigration.

I'm just trying to offset the work that people like you and Gutierrez do to promote illegal
Immigration. I haven't started a class (like you)for illegals yet although it would be a
great way to
round a few up. Would you like for me to mail you some maps so you can help them find
their way home?

.

I completely understand Okie. There's a conspiracy to replace all Wonderbread with tortillas on the shelves at Edmond's Walmart Supercenter.

okie52
11/22/2011, 10:32 AM
I completely understand Okie. There's a conspiracy to replace all Wonderbread with tortillas on the shelves at Edmond's Walmart Supercenter.

I'm sure that is the extent of the conspiracy as you see it.

Do you still have family seeking citizenship?

KantoSooner
11/22/2011, 11:27 AM
Everify would be a great start to driving this unwanted hoard out of the US but the Bush plan was terribly flawed...unless you think we owe 12,000,000 plus citizenship. Severe punishment for employers that knowingly hire illegals, denying benefits and having government agencies, schools, hospitals, law enforcement, etc... notifying ICE when illegals are found will get this country cleared out in a hurry.

The Bush plan was a compromise, to be sure; but I think a not unreasonable one. At the end of the day, we have a long border with Mexico. That won't change. Nor will we be able to dictate what the Mexicans decide to do with their country. We couldn't stop cross border transits even if we really wanted to; and the family ties across the border are too deep for us to really want to. So, we're kind of stuck with a less than perfect situation.

We've allowed this problem to fester for so long that we've now got a large number of families that are completely mixed between being legal, illegal and in legal limbo (partially because INS is a seething mess of incompetance, mismanagement and pedestrian laziness).

I'm willing to set aside philosophical purity in order to get a solution.

okie52
11/22/2011, 12:27 PM
The Bush plan was a compromise, to be sure; but I think a not unreasonable one. At the end of the day, we have a long border with Mexico. That won't change. Nor will we be able to dictate what the Mexicans decide to do with their country. We couldn't stop cross border transits even if we really wanted to; and the family ties across the border are too deep for us to really want to. So, we're kind of stuck with a less than perfect situation.

We've allowed this problem to fester for so long that we've now got a large number of families that are completely mixed between being legal, illegal and in legal limbo (partially because INS is a seething mess of incompetance, mismanagement and pedestrian laziness).

I'm willing to set aside philosophical purity in order to get a solution.

It just depends on the political will to solve the situation. Admittedly, there hasn't been much of one. The repubs through their business cronies don't really want to see it end and the dems because they see future voter support from the illegals will support them. Yet overwhelmingly the public wants illegal immigration to end and the border to be secured.

As horrible as I see amnesty for 12,000,000 people the real pitfall is the immigration reunification of families which could greatly increase that number. Just imagine that number increasing to 30-40,000,000 when estranged family members are granted citizenship. And, if you will notice how the latinos vote, they support illegal immigration (unless it is while they reside in Mexico).

If a compromise was made that would end birthright citizenship to those here illegally and not allow citizenship to be extended to family members outside the US then that might be the best I could hope for. The problem will be that hispanic numbers (they are far and away the biggest breeders in the US) will continue grow and pressure will once again be placed on the government to relax immigration enforcement (or remove it altogether) until the US resembles the same crappy country that Mexico is.

KantoSooner
11/22/2011, 01:57 PM
Two or three random points, as I think we're essentially loudly agreeing.

1. I think the numbers need investigation. I don't think we're dealing with 12 million illegals, and as for relatives adding up to 40 or more, you don't need to allow visas or citizenship to them. We are not bound to do so now. Still, whatever the number we can agree on 'lots' and 'lots more than we will ever reach political consensus to forcibly evict'.
2. Birthrate. Funny thing, the birthrate in Mexico is plunging. The five kid families of yore are just that: history. There's a real risk of irony that we might get our act together on illegal immigration just as the crisis passes. Not for sure, but the birth rate discrepancy is not nearly what it was even 25 years ago.
3. Birthright citizenship is a tricky one, but I, at least, would favor limiting automatic citizenship to those born of citizen parent (or parents). Whereever they happen to live.

4. I spend a great deal of time driving back roads in OK, TX, KS, AR, MO and LA for work. It's interesting in a lot of ways. Having been out of the country for 25 years, I am constantly amazed at the richness of our country and at the mind boggling depth of industrial capacity. What is a veneer in most other countries is deep and broad here.
And in a lot of those local communities live a large number of hispanics. Many are first generation Americans. Here are a few of the things that characterize them: they tend to work damn hard, they tend to go to protestant churches (yes, many of the zanier ones, but the catholic influence is likely in the minority), they tend to have 1-3 kids and to push the kids relentlessly to do well in school and to speak English and they tend to have strong families. In short, they are a typical immigrant story community in this country.
I have no doubt that there are other stories to be told in other places, but I bring this anecdote up to make the point that hispanic immigration is not all negative.

IndySooner
11/22/2011, 02:11 PM
4. I spend a great deal of time driving back roads in OK, TX, KS, AR, MO and LA for work. It's interesting in a lot of ways. Having been out of the country for 25 years, I am constantly amazed at the richness of our country and at the mind boggling depth of industrial capacity. What is a veneer in most other countries is deep and broad here.
And in a lot of those local communities live a large number of hispanics. Many are first generation Americans. Here are a few of the things that characterize them: they tend to work damn hard, they tend to go to protestant churches (yes, many of the zanier ones, but the catholic influence is likely in the minority), they tend to have 1-3 kids and to push the kids relentlessly to do well in school and to speak English and they tend to have strong families. In short, they are a typical immigrant story community in this country.
I have no doubt that there are other stories to be told in other places, but I bring this anecdote up to make the point that hispanic immigration is not all negative.In fairness, this is the case in this part of the country because the protestant influence is heavier. In more Catholic areas of the country, they tend to stick to the Catholic roots of Mexico, though there is really less and less religious influence in that country, as well as most countries around the world.

KantoSooner
11/22/2011, 03:36 PM
I'd grant the truth of that. Interestingly, the Catholic church is scared ****less about the growth of protestantism in Brazil, Mexico and Central Africa (where protestant churches are kicking Islam's butt at the moment).

okie52
11/22/2011, 04:15 PM
Two or three random points, as I think we're essentially loudly agreeing.

1. I think the numbers need investigation. I don't think we're dealing with 12 million illegals, and as for relatives adding up to 40 or more, you don't need to allow visas or citizenship to them. We are not bound to do so now. Still, whatever the number we can agree on 'lots' and 'lots more than we will ever reach political consensus to forcibly evict'.
2. Birthrate. Funny thing, the birthrate in Mexico is plunging. The five kid families of yore are just that: history. There's a real risk of irony that we might get our act together on illegal immigration just as the crisis passes. Not for sure, but the birth rate discrepancy is not nearly what it was even 25 years ago.
3. Birthright citizenship is a tricky one, but I, at least, would favor limiting automatic citizenship to those born of citizen parent (or parents). Whereever they happen to live.

4. I spend a great deal of time driving back roads in OK, TX, KS, AR, MO and LA for work. It's interesting in a lot of ways. Having been out of the country for 25 years, I am constantly amazed at the richness of our country and at the mind boggling depth of industrial capacity. What is a veneer in most other countries is deep and broad here.
And in a lot of those local communities live a large number of hispanics. Many are first generation Americans. Here are a few of the things that characterize them: they tend to work damn hard, they tend to go to protestant churches (yes, many of the zanier ones, but the catholic influence is likely in the minority), they tend to have 1-3 kids and to push the kids relentlessly to do well in school and to speak English and they tend to have strong families. In short, they are a typical immigrant story community in this country.
I have no doubt that there are other stories to be told in other places, but I bring this anecdote up to make the point that hispanic immigration is not all negative.

We don't have to allow anyone to immigrate but our policy has been for a number of years to allow family members (brothers, sisters, father, mother, etc...) to immigrate. A change in that policy would be greatly appreciated. I think we are dealing with more than 12,000,000 but I use that figure because it has been the generally accepted one.

I wish the declining birthrate in Mexico would catch on with Hispanics here.
The birthrate of illegals and hispanics in this country greatly exceeds those of whites or blacks. Whites are almost heading towards a negative population growth and Blacks have been maintaining a 13% balance in proportion to the population. Hispanics, legal and/or illegal, are off the charts and that is just one reason they passed Blacks as the largest minority.

We aren't getting the best and/or the brightest of the latin countries, we are getting the unskilled and poorly educated. They are hardworking people and generally good people to be around with strong family bonds but they aren't strengthening our country by providing expertise and skills that should be recruited. They are just cheap labor that end up costing tax payers through our benefits and schooling...and citizenship will just further exacerbate the situation.

I don't want our country to grow, BTW, but rather I want it to shrink so obviously overpopulating people that are here illegally doesn't fit in that picture. I prefer to see our resources last a long time rather than have our country follow the paths of China and India.