All the internet coaches....

[dwarthog]

Need to go do some research with regards to Baylor instead of just whining and griping about the loss.

Baylor had 622 yards against Okie State, 686 yards against Mizzouri etc., those guys can and have been moving the ball on everyone.

A&M kept their offense off the field with a strong run game and so did Kansas.

This is probably the reason we kept trying to run the ball on 1st down. We had to use up clock to keep their offense off the field since there appeared to be little hope we could actually stop them regularly.

The reason they have lost or been in close games is because of turnovers. They have turned the ball over a lot and it has cost them.

Against us, they had zero turnovers while we had 3. They played a perfect game and we didn't. Not much else can be said.

[C&CDean]

FIRE STOOVENERTINEZ!!11!!111

[cccasooner2]

......Against us, they had zero turnovers while we had 3. They played a perfect game and we didn't. Not much else can be said.


I had it vBet the other way around. :(

[Widescreen]

Need to go do some research with regards to Baylor instead of just whining and griping about the loss.

Baylor had 622 yards against Okie State, 686 yards against Mizzouri etc., those guys can and have been moving the ball on everyone.

A&M kept their offense off the field with a strong run game and so did Kansas.

This is probably the reason we kept trying to run the ball on 1st down. We had to use up clock to keep their offense off the field since there appeared to be little hope we could actually stop them regularly.

The reason they have lost or been in close games is because of turnovers. They have turned the ball over a lot and it has cost them.

Against us, they had zero turnovers while we had 3. They played a perfect game and we didn't. Not much else can be said.
Are you really trying to argue that our defense should be on par with OSU's? How many times did they have players running free behind our secondary? It could've been a lot worse.

[Curly Bill]

Need to go do some research with regards to Baylor instead of just whining and griping about the loss.

Baylor had 622 yards against Okie State, 686 yards against Mizzouri etc., those guys can and have been moving the ball on everyone.

A&M kept their offense off the field with a strong run game and so did Kansas.

This is probably the reason we kept trying to run the ball on 1st down. We had to use up clock to keep their offense off the field since there appeared to be little hope we could actually stop them regularly.

The reason they have lost or been in close games is because of turnovers. They have turned the ball over a lot and it has cost them.

Against us, they had zero turnovers while we had 3. They played a perfect game and we didn't. Not much else can be said.

I'm glad we're comparable to everyone. That's comforting, thanks so much for that.

[kevpks]

A defense ranked in the 50s (if we're still that high) is not good enough. I am one Kool-aid drinkin', sunshine pumpin' mo fo and I can see that. I don't think we need a new staff or new players (although hopefully we're bringing in secondary recruits or bringing along redshirts to challenge for playing time) but internal changes have to be made to schemes, preparation, training, or whatever else we can do. This is a program that should have a top 20 defense every season. Period.

[FaninAma]

We lost to freaking Baylor. Heads must roll!


Just kidding. I do think these coaches, if they are as astute as we think they are, will re-examine the part of their defensive philosophy that is causing the breakdowns.

BTW, where was the spy on RGIII during Baylor's last drive?

[dwarthog]

Are you really trying to argue that our defense should be on par with OSU's? How many times did they have players running free behind our secondary? It could've been a lot worse.

Based on the stats, we are 6 yards better than OSU's defense. So arguing really isn't really required is it, the stats speak for themselves.

Point is, they didn't just show up and pull a game out of their butts, they have been doing this all year.

They didn't turn the ball over, we did. Turnovers killed us just like it killed them in their other games.

[Sooners78]

More importantly than our secondary is our dline. If they're consistently getting pressure on the QB, the secondary will look good no matter what. One constant with the great SEC defenses like Bama, LSU, and Georgia is they always have great dlines. Griffin was running around free back there on almost every play.

[C&CDean]

More importantly than our secondary is our dline. If they're consistently getting pressure on the QB, the secondary will look good no matter what. One constant with the great SEC defenses like Bama, LSU, and Georgia is they always have great dlines. Griffin was running around free back there on almost every play.

We're #3 nationally in sacks and tackle for loss. The problem ain't our d-line.

[agoo758]

Everyone on here believes that Venables is Great DC has yet to convince me why he kept rushing only three guys for the rest of the game enabling RG3 continued to pick our secondary apart. Until someone does, I will respectfully disagree with them.

On a more positive note, our D-line has been as good as any in the country this year.

[C&CDean]

Everyone on here believes that Venables is Great DC has yet to convince me while we switched over to rushing only three guys for the rest of the game while RG3 continued to pick our secondary apart. Until someone does, I will respectfully disagree with them.

Everyone? Are you ****ing blind? Can you read? Sheez. Don't worry, you've got plenty of company on the crazy train.

[Trophy Husband]

Need to go do some research with regards to Baylor instead of just whining and griping about the loss.

Baylor had 622 yards against Okie State, 686 yards against Mizzouri etc., those guys can and have been moving the ball on everyone.

A&M kept their offense off the field with a strong run game and so did Kansas.

This is probably the reason we kept trying to run the ball on 1st down. We had to use up clock to keep their offense off the field since there appeared to be little hope we could actually stop them regularly.

The reason they have lost or been in close games is because of turnovers. They have turned the ball over a lot and it has cost them.

Against us, they had zero turnovers while we had 3. They played a perfect game and we didn't. Not much else can be said.

Gotcha, the benchmarks for OU's defense are now OSU and Mizzou. You're right, everything is fine.

[Trophy Husband]

We're #3 nationally in sacks and tackle for loss. The problem ain't our d-line.

Do the stats you're providing list what position is responsible for the sacks and tackles for loss?

[C&CDean]

Do the stats you're providing list what position is responsible for the sacs and tackles for loss?

Does it matter?

And let me put on my surprised!! face that you're one of the haters. Meh.

[Trophy Husband]

Does it matter?

And let me put on my surprised!! face that you're one of the haters. Meh.



We're #3 nationally in sacks and tackle for loss. The problem ain't our d-line.

I'm not hating, I just wondered if the sacks and tackles for loss, were coming from the d-line or the backers and secondary? If they are not coming from the d- line you can not make the claim that the d-line ain't the problem just because we're #3 nationally in sacks and tackle for loss. If they are coming primarily from the d-line position, then your assumption would be correct.

[soonervegas]

The only problem is our expectations.....adjust accordingly.

If you know going in it is a 2-loss season it makes it much, much easier.

[C&CDean]

Sacks in order:

Frank Alexander
Ronnell Lewis
Corey Nelson
Tom Wort
Tony Jefferson
R.J. Washington


Tackles For Loss:

Frank Alexander
Ronnell Lewis
Corey Nelson

Yeah, I'd say our d-line is doing alright. Frank and Ronnell are beasts.

[Widescreen]

Frank and Ronnell are beasts.
Yes, and it looks like Ronnell may be done for the year (and possibly his OU career). :(

[C&CDean]

Yes, and it looks like Ronnell may be done for the year (and possibly his OU career). :(

Fire Vulnerables!!1!! No make that Stoops!!11!! POS coaches letting our players get all hurt and ****.

[FtwTxSooner]

The only problem is our expectations.....adjust accordingly.

If you know going in it is a 2-loss season it makes it much, much easier.

Yep, instead of being a preseason number 1, and hyped for a championship run, we just expected our defense would just be as good as OSU and Mizzou, everything would be fine.

[C&CDean]

My advice to everyone is to not real/listen to anything anyone has to say pre-season. If we had all our cogs in place, we'd be very good. We don't, and it's getting worse (injuries primarily). If we win our final two games it will be a monumental effort by the guys who are left standing.

[Widescreen]

My advice to everyone is to not real/listen to anything anyone has to say pre-season. If we had all our cogs in place, we'd be very good. We don't, and it's getting worse (injuries primarily). If we win our final two games it will be a monumental effort by the guys who are left standing.
This I agree with. I typically don't listen to pre-season hype because of recent history in terms of unexpected losses. This year, I allowed myself to fall into the hype trap and it bit me.

[C&CDean]

This I agree with. I typically don't listen to pre-season hype because of recent history in terms of unexpected losses. This year, I allowed myself to fall into the hype trap and it bit me.

It bit us all. The only problem is some folks just can't seem to grasp reality.

[StoopTroup]

We lost to freaking Baylor. Heads must roll!


Just kidding. I do think these coaches, if they are as astute as we think they are, will re-examine the part of their defensive philosophy that is causing the breakdowns.

BTW, where was the spy on RGIII during Baylor's last drive?

Where was the Refs Flag for the push off on Proctor in the EZ?

They had called Stills for less in the Game. The Refs Superglued those flags into their pockets on that last drive. Baylor looks like a World Beater if you can't play them tight because of the refs.

It's really hard to watch that replay on that pass but it's there, it really happened and it's a sad reality when OU Players were playing their *** off to try and deal with the way the game was being called. Although they didn't win and Baylor is good enough to take advantage of the situation, I'm proud that The Team was in this game and would have taken a tough night into OT after 4 quarters of adjustments. When the deck is so stacked and you are as banged up as we are, things like this happen. It's tough on everybody IMO but like some Alums are saying....you don't drop out of School because your Team lost.

See ya at the ISU Game Hopefully. I know there are plenty of TV Fans that will or won't watch but I know this is a very good Team and they have been through a lot. They have beat every Team who's School has bailed out on the Big XII and I know that's not much but it is something. Landry and Broyles have broke School records and have been a joy to watch.

I'm gonna miss them (that is if Landry leaves, which I think he will). I'll miss all our Seniors.

[BoulderSooner79]

Yes, I hope all this post-loss vitriol has ebbed away enough for the fans to heartily acknowledge all the seniors on Saturday. Yes, including Jimmy Stevens.

[Trophy Husband]

Sacks in order:

Frank Alexander
Ronnell Lewis
Corey Nelson
Tom Wort
Tony Jefferson
R.J. Washington


Tackles For Loss:

Frank Alexander
Ronnell Lewis
Corey Nelson

Yeah, I'd say our d-line is doing alright. Frank and Ronnell are beasts.

What's with the attitude? I just asked if you had anything showing where the sacks and tackles for loss were coming from. You provided the information, so you are correct, our D-line ain't the problem.

[Trophy Husband]

It bit us all. The only problem is some folks just can't seem to grasp reality.

Al Esbach:
the coaches think Jarvis Smith will be an absolute superstar

[Okie35]

I'm not hating, I just wondered if the sacks and tackles for loss, were coming from the d-line or the backers and secondary? If they are not coming from the d- line you can not make the claim that the d-line ain't the problem just because we're #3 nationally in sacks and tackle for loss. If they are coming primarily from the d-line position, then your assumption would be correct.

Some of it is due to the LBs and secondary but mainly the d-line. I hate our blitzing scheme sometimes it leaves the middle wide open.

[Trophy Husband]

Some of it is due to the LBs and secondary but mainly the d-line. I hate our blitzing scheme sometimes it leaves the middle wide open.

Covering the middle of the field has never been a BV's coached defense strong point.

[goingoneight]

I remember when OU looked this bad before. In 2002, OSU and Mizzou pantsed our defense and people seem to forget that Savior Mike was on staff, too. We also had a pretty nasty D-line that year, too... so who should've been fired those days?

[Dan Thompson]

As good a runner as Finch is, it was very difficult for someone that weights 166 pounds to block guys that weight 240 or more.

I don't recall any adjustments on defense, until it was too late.

The most interesting thing was LJ did not have any passing TDs.

I hope ISUs passing game does not beat us.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Need to go do some research with regards to Baylor instead of just whining and griping about the loss.

Baylor had 622 yards against Okie State, 686 yards against Mizzouri etc., those guys can and have been moving the ball on everyone.

A&M kept their offense off the field with a strong run game and so did Kansas.

This is probably the reason we kept trying to run the ball on 1st down. We had to use up clock to keep their offense off the field since there appeared to be little hope we could actually stop them regularly.

The reason they have lost or been in close games is because of turnovers. They have turned the ball over a lot and it has cost them.

Against us, they had zero turnovers while we had 3. They played a perfect game and we didn't. Not much else can be said.

Oh, well...sorry, then. We've been misled, it seems.

At the beginning of the season, we had been led to believe that the bar was making the national title game. I see now that the bar all along was really to only have defenses like Oklahoma State and Missouri have.

With that in mind, I now see that we have been overachieving all year. Fantastic.

[OUInformant]

IMO, the coaches are getting too caught up in the mechanical side of football, particularly on defense. I think we have scheme problems in that our defense is too complicated and mechanical. It is a paper defense, that is just way too hard to execute in real life. I just don't think that Javon Harris knows what to do half the time, as we are giving him too many options to choose from. Just tell him to "blitz the QB" or "cover so-and-so".

I say just let the kids go out there and play man-to-man and throw in a couple of blitzes from time-to-time. With the athletes we have, this would probably turn out better for us. If a DB can't cover a guy, then we can drop a safety on that guy specifically.

I refuse to believe that Gabe Lynn, the nation's #1 corner out of HS, can't cover anybody on Texas Tech. I think our coaches need to re-evaluate how they are coaching these kids. High profile status and a big paycheck doesn't guarantee good work.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

My advice to everyone is to not real/listen to anything anyone has to say pre-season. If we had all our cogs in place, we'd be very good. We don't, and it's getting worse (injuries primarily). If we win our final two games it will be a monumental effort by the guys who are left standing.

What are you talking about? No one ever listens to me when I say we are talent thin at X position and that will bite us later in the year.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Covering the middle of the field has never been a BV's coached defense strong point.

I hate to break it to you but outside of the 2000 season, we've never been good at covering the middle of the field. Also, if you go to youtube and pull up the mark clayton highlight video you'll see that everyone we play has just as much of an issue with it as we do.

[OUInformant]

I hate to break it to you but outside of the 2000 season, we've never been good at covering the middle of the field. Also, if you go to youtube and pull up the mark clayton highlight video you'll see that everyone we play has just as much of an issue with it as we do.

Doesn't this have to do with our Cover 2 scheme? We leave the middle of the field defenseless as our safeties move to the outside.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

What's with the attitude? I just asked if you had anything showing where the sacks and tackles for loss were coming from. You provided the information, so you are correct, our D-line ain't the problem.

Ignore Dean.

Within the Baylor game we got great pressure until Ronnell went down. Once he went down, they were able to throw an extra blocker onto Alexander's side and leave RG with the ability to juke Nelson (who is going to be a very good blitzer btw).

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Doesn't this have to do with our Cover 2 scheme? We leave the middle of the field defenseless as our safeties move to the outside.

It has to do with how much college linebackers are a liability in coverage. There have only been a handful of games where we've consistently gotten beat because of Safeties committing (OSU 2002, Baylor 2011, KState 2001, prolly a couple of more). Most of our problems happen between the LBs and in front of the Safeties.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Doesn't this have to do with our Cover 2 scheme? We leave the middle of the field defenseless as our safeties move to the outside.

Oh and one more point, in general you want to ENCOURAGE teams to throw into the middle of a defense. That is where you are going to get the most turnovers. The problem is that, outside of a couple of years, we haven't had the talent/execution to increase the degree of difficulty of these throws to the point where they generate said turnovers (it has mainly been because we lack ballhawks).

[kevpks]

I just hope some of our decent sophomores on defense turn into All-conference and All-American juniors and seniors. We've seen it before. Unlike Texas, our players get better in their time here.

[dwarthog]

Oh, well...sorry, then. We've been misled, it seems.

At the beginning of the season, we had been led to believe that the bar was making the national title game. I see now that the bar all along was really to only have defenses like Oklahoma State and Missouri have.

With that in mind, I now see that we have been overachieving all year. Fantastic.

Everyone was a paper tiger before the first game.

Hell Texas had everyone convinced they were going to actually be somebody this year too, and they had a whole handful of nothing from the previous year with nothing to add to it this year.

Still gotta play the games though.

[SoonerNate]

Need to go do some research with regards to Baylor instead of just whining and griping about the loss.

Baylor had 622 yards against Okie State, 686 yards against Mizzouri etc., those guys can and have been moving the ball on everyone.

A&M kept their offense off the field with a strong run game and so did Kansas.

This is probably the reason we kept trying to run the ball on 1st down. We had to use up clock to keep their offense off the field since there appeared to be little hope we could actually stop them regularly.

The reason they have lost or been in close games is because of turnovers. They have turned the ball over a lot and it has cost them.

Against us, they had zero turnovers while we had 3. They played a perfect game and we didn't. Not much else can be said.

It's Baylor dude. IT'S BAYLOR!!!!!!!!!

Please quit making excuses for this joke of a coaching staff.

Just my $0.02

[RedRum]

It's just time to put loyalty aside and revamp the defensive staff. It has to be done, even if they have a good showing against OSU. Hopefully this will be the straw that broke the camel's back and now eschbach and those 'sports reporters', I use that term loosely, will get the b.... to start asking Stoops the questions that need to be asked instead of lobbing softballs to him every Tuesday afternoon. I've been a Bob Stoops fan for a long time, but even I have realized the time has come for a fresh approach.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Red, go read through the secondary thread and see if you think that a wholesale change is a good idea. In a nutshell, we have no defensive identity and we've recruited a bunch of mismatched pieces that don't fit together. Even if we bring in someone new, those facts aren't going to change overnight.

[C&CDean]

It's Baylor dude. IT'S BAYLOR!!!!!!!!!

Please quit making excuses for this joke of a coaching staff.

Just my $0.02

Your 2 pennies ain't worth the jizz I squirted on some hooker's face in 1974. Just sayin'.

[dwarthog]

It's Baylor dude. IT'S BAYLOR!!!!!!!!!

Please quit making excuses for this joke of a coaching staff.

Just my $0.02

I don't believe I was making an excuse for anyone, coach or player.

Just pointing out that if may have been just a bit unreasonable for folks to believe that we would roll into town and collect an "easy" win and roll on back out.

In the grand scheme of storied programs, Baylor isn't in the same class as OU, few team in college football are, but games still have to be played and this edition of Baylor was a bit more dangerous than given credit.

That's all and my $0.02 as well.

Geez, just noticed your location, now I'm bummin'.:(

[MamaMia]

It's just time to put loyalty aside and revamp the defensive staff. It has to be done, even if they have a good showing against OSU. Hopefully this will be the straw that broke the camel's back and now eschbach and those 'sports reporters', I use that term loosely, will get the b.... to start asking Stoops the questions that need to be asked instead of lobbing softballs to him every Tuesday afternoon. I've been a Bob Stoops fan for a long time, but even I have realized the time has come for a fresh approach.Actually the guys on the Sports Animal are questioning Stoops not taking a more active roll. They mentioned how he yelled at Stills for spiking the ball after scoring a TD for 5 minutes straight but sat idly by as Gabe Lynn ans Harris were not benched until after they allowed Tech and the Bears 6, maybe 7 touchdowns on their watch.

[Blue]

IMO, the coaches are getting too caught up in the mechanical side of football, particularly on defense. I think we have scheme problems in that our defense is too complicated and mechanical. It is a paper defense, that is just way too hard to execute in real life. I just don't think that Javon Harris knows what to do half the time, as we are giving him too many options to choose from. Just tell him to "blitz the QB" or "cover so-and-so".

I say just let the kids go out there and play man-to-man and throw in a couple of blitzes from time-to-time. With the athletes we have, this would probably turn out better for us. If a DB can't cover a guy, then we can drop a safety on that guy specifically.

I refuse to believe that Gabe Lynn, the nation's #1 corner out of HS, can't cover anybody on Texas Tech. I think our coaches need to re-evaluate how they are coaching these kids. High profile status and a big paycheck doesn't guarantee good work.

Great post. The D is too damn complicated. Just let the players play and make plays.

[RedRum]

Never said anything about overnight, just sometimes it's time to get fresh blood in the program. New ideas. The problems we've had are the same ones over and over. What would be crazy is to keep everything the same and somehow think that these issues that have plagued us for six + years are simply going to go away.

[oupride]

I consider the 4th and 1 stop a turnover. Thanks for the post.

[RedRum]

Let's hear them say that at the press conference then I'll be impressed.

[MamaMia]

It's Baylor dude. IT'S BAYLOR!!!!!!!!!

Please quit making excuses for this joke of a coaching staff.

Just my $0.02I knew when Baylor got that QB and hired Briles, that they weren't going to be an easy win but teams worse than OU have beaten them.

[pappy]

Need to go do some research with regards to Baylor instead of just whining and griping about the loss.

Baylor had 622 yards against Okie State, 686 yards against Mizzouri etc., those guys can and have been moving the ball on everyone.

A&M kept their offense off the field with a strong run game and so did Kansas.

This is probably the reason we kept trying to run the ball on 1st down. We had to use up clock to keep their offense off the field since there appeared to be little hope we could actually stop them regularly.

The reason they have lost or been in close games is because of turnovers. They have turned the ball over a lot and it has cost them.

Against us, they had zero turnovers while we had 3. They played a perfect game and we didn't. Not much else can be said.

Don't forget about the 545 yards they put up on Stephen F. Austin.

[VA Sooner]

Within the Baylor game we got great pressure until Ronnell went down. Once he went down, they were able to throw an extra blocker onto Alexander's side and leave RG with the ability to juke Nelson (who is going to be a very good blitzer btw).


I agree with this 100%. I think the defense started getting challenged more once we didn't have a great disruptive force on the line to keep pressure on RGIII who got more time to go through progressions, more time to plant his feet and allow his receivers to get open and even some running room, especially on that last drive. King and Washington are good... but the Hammer is an impressive DE.

[VA Sooner]

The defense is complicated and perhaps a bit much for Javon. Moving to a man-to-man scheme may be easier for him and perhaps let him shine. Definitely worth evaluating in practice but I'm sure they've already done this.

Someone explain to me the 50 defense and why it was so successful a couple of years ago... I'm missing something.

[SoonerNate]

Your 2 pennies ain't worth the jizz I squirted on some hooker's face in 1974. Just sayin'.

No argument there ; )