Since we are all coaches here....

[OU_Sooners75]

What defensive scheme would you run? What about the offensive scheme? Would you have a special teams coach?


:biggrin:

[Peach Fuzz]

Nickel... hell anything that's not 3 linemen... ****in joke.

[SoonerLaw09]

Standard 4-3 with a nickel package when needed and man coverage when we don't. Bust receivers in the chops off the line whenever possible without getting torched.

Pro-style single back with 2 tight ends, one who can double as a fullback if needed. Run first pass second. Concentrate on winning the line of scrimmage every time. Quick-strike plays are exciting but it's more important to pick up first downs and keep your own D off the field. But when necessary, have a few deep-threat plays.

In other words, what the St. Louis Rams would do if they had the players.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Who would we play man coverage against?

[Peach Fuzz]

Bust receivers in the chops off the line whenever possible without getting torched.
This. Why we aren't jamming receivers is beyond me. The lack of physicality in the secondary is what keeps us behind SEC.

[OU_Sooners75]

Here is what I was thinking...

What type of offenses do we play most? Spread offenses, right? If not, forgive me if I am wrong in this post.

The best way to defend against the Spread is to disrupt the timing of that offense. You have got to take the QB out of his comfort zone, make him make hastily incorrect decisions.

That said...why not go to a 5 front defense? Why are we currently in a 3 front against true spread offenses?

I am talking about either a 5-2-4 defense or a 3-4-4 defense.

If you are running a 5-2-4, then you have a DL on each OL (unless there is a TE) NG, DT, DT, DE, DE. Essentially you have clogged the middle lanes with linemen. The LBs would the be used as spies or blitzers. Do not worry about having your DBs beingpart of run support, but teach them how to look back while covering. You know is a WR locks onto you and starts to block you, it is a run or a screen. Be tight and bump the WRs. Play man to man on all WRs. If they are playing a 4-5 WR set, then bring on a nickelback to help cover the extra WRs.

The3-4-4 is ran almost the same way. Except you have a NG, two DTs and two Linebackers/DEs.

I may be far off on my thinking...but putting a 5 front defense will help stop the spread much like it did back in the Wing-T days. because it puts more pass rushers/run stoppers in the face of the QB.

Playing defense is always and will always be a numbers game. If you are allowing a true pocket passer in a spread offense the time to throw the ball and set up in the pocket, he will always pick you apart. You have to get a good pass rush...and when you are rushing only 3 guys, you are not getting that pass rush!

[OU_Sooners75]

Who would we play man coverage against?

You can always mix it up. Play a zone man mix. Man on the outside zone underneath.

[Peach Fuzz]

Well, a 50 is great for all kinds of things, except when you get a trips or trey formation and a safety has to roll down like a rover and you have 1 up top. The backside LB's are gonna be 1 on 1 with a back motioning out and we're gonna get torched. Not to mention a CB on an island all game and if he gets beat by a hair, it's a td because we have no safety help as he is helping on the 3 receiver side.

[Peach Fuzz]

I always liked the 8 yard man rule. For any DB, if the receiver they are responsible for breaks an 8 yard cushion, then you are manned up. If not you ride him off to the other zone and get back to your deep third or half.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

You can always mix it up. Play a zone man mix. Man on the outside zone underneath.

Not saying the theory doesn't work, but they would have to get a better caliber of athlete in the D backfield

[rekamrettuB]

Well, a 50 is great for all kinds of things, except when you get a trips or trey formation and a safety has to roll down like a rover and you have 1 up top. The backside LB's are gonna be 1 on 1 with a back motioning out and we're gonna get torched. Not to mention a CB on an island all game and if he gets beat by a hair, it's a td because we have no safety help as he is helping on the 3 receiver side.

It's so easy isn't it?

[cleller]

This. Why we aren't jamming receivers is beyond me. The lack of physicality in the secondary is what keeps us behind SEC.

For certain. Our receivers never seem to get more than 10 yard downfield before a play falls apart. Baylor, any team with a decent QB can hit open guys 15,20,25 yards downfield at will.

[Peach Fuzz]

It's so easy isn't it?
Not sure what you mean?? It's easy when you have DEs that bump out to cover the flat so we don't have to have a rover. No one does that in college anymore, they're aren't many DEs that run 4.5s. Need a Will that can run 4.4 too.

[cleller]

Not saying the theory doesn't work, but they would have to get a better caliber of athlete in the D backfield

If we cannot recruit this caliber of athlete to Oklahoma, how do other teams manage?

[rekamrettuB]

Not sure what you mean?? It's easy when you have DEs that bump out to cover the flat so we don't have to have a rover. No one does that in college anymore, they're aren't many DEs that run 4.5s. Need a Will that can run 4.4 too.

No, I'm agreeing with you. It's easy to say "run a 5-2-4" every play.

[OU_Sooners75]

Not saying the theory doesn't work, but they would have to get a better caliber of athlete in the D backfield

Not disagreeing with you at all on this...

but I think if we coached it, our athletes would be able to perform it.

Right now, the problem with the DBs is what someone said here. They are taught to help in run support. And we you are taught that by your coaches, then you are going to bite on Play action and even double move routes.

[Peach Fuzz]

I think most of the problem lies with complexity of the D. It's obvious the guys are a little hesitant, and that comes from being confused. Run a simplified D that has basic laws that must be instilled every play. They mix it up from there. I'm sure they do this already, still looks too complex for the troops.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I may be far off on my thinking...but putting a 5 front defense will help stop the spread much like it did back in the Wing-T days.

You are. I understand the logic, but there's a problem.

The 3-3 stack and 3-3 offset nickel sets are the way to fly here. A) You account for the six A through C gap responsibilities across the front with 5 bodies, freeing a man in the box. B) By having a 3 down set, you're faster across the front. Penetration is great, but if the pocket collapses or pops wide you need sideline to sideline speed with a guy like Robert Griffin. C) It allows your extra LB the flexibility to peel into the belly or flat zones, spy, or blitz. Hence the edge pressure we were getting in the 1st Quarter along with balls out play from Frank Alexander. D) It allows an LB from that transition to coverage to give your nickel look a dime functionality. E) It minimizes the DL rotation and depth you'd need to rotate a 5 down set, thusly keeping fresher, more aggressive down linemen. F) It allows for better quality contain over a 5 down front, having speed from the LB closing the edges instead of commiting a DB to the flat.

I have serious questions about the shift in aggressiveness from the 1st to 4th quarters and the use of the free LB to generate edge pressure. Once again we saw a liberal use of stunting to attempt to generate pressure from the gut that failed miserably. And WHY you'd want to generate pressure from inside the tackles on a guy with wheels like Griffin is beyond me. Picking up the inside twist is something us hog mollies learn in grade school and it's made that much easier with good fundamental pass pro. The 3-3 Nickel and edge pressure to cut down half of the field, sound, fundamental upfield gap priority DL play, sound, PATIENT linebacker play, and sound Cover 2 is a no brainer here. We had a good part of that. But between a horrid display of linebacker and DB play and getting stuck in the mindset of doing what you want defensively instead of doing what's right put a bullet right in the head of our defense.

Sharks my ***.

[OU_Sooners75]

No, I'm agreeing with you. It's easy to say "run a 5-2-4" every play.

Oh, so you wanted a 5000 word essay on what my idea was?

Didn't know that. I was thinking more of schemes to run, like 3-3-5 or 4-3 or 4-4 or 5-2 or 4-2-5 or etc etc.

[Peach Fuzz]

It just scares me to death when we run a 3-3 against a mobile QB. It only takes 1 15 yard scramble for the D to lose discipline and go after him every time he tucks it. That ends up costing us a few deep balls from then on. 3-3 is an open invitation for RG3 to go off for us at the moment.

[rekamrettuB]

Oh, so you wanted a 5000 word essay on what my idea was?

Didn't know that. I was thinking more of schemes to run, like 3-3-5 or 4-3 or 4-4 or 5-2 or 4-2-5 or etc etc.

I don't "want" anything. Just pointing out it's a very easy to sit here and say "do this or that or the other" with nothing on the line.

[Peach Fuzz]

We could have run a 10-man all out block and had as much success of yall wanna go there.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

If we cannot recruit this caliber of athlete to Oklahoma, how do other teams manage?

I don't know why but it isn't happening...I'm not enough into recruiting to know really the why or what-fors, but look up ESPN top 100 corners from 2012 to 2006(thats as far as it goes back)...

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Hence why you need discipline.

Watch the LBs every time we get stung on a QB bouncing the pocket. The OL never loses THEIR depth, our LBs lose theirs. They make their read and establish space, then suck right up tight to the LOS and eat a block. A shimmy here, a shake there, and not only is the QB busting a big one on the ground, our LBs never get a finger on it because they can't flow to the tackle or stay clean long enough to flow in the damn first place. When they stay in space, they look AMAZING. When they suck up to the LOS (a shockingly large majority of the time), they've already lost. They're speed guys, sideline to sideline guys. They got no business whatsoever being within 4 yards of the LOS unless they're attacking a gap/ballcarrier. The tradeoff is if they get free, it's a ZERO yard carry. The other hand is if they don't (which they usually don't, it's an easy block for an OL, picking on little guys), they have no impact on the play whatsoever. Then it's a DB coming off coverage to make a tackle, which in turn often turns into a flushed pocket strike for a nice chunk of yards.

It's really sad. It's not aggressiveness, it's stupidity.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

To qualify that, that premise has nothing to do with whether or not the 3-3 Nickel is the right set. Again, you MUST be disciplined. Good sound football and Bayor loses by 21. Literally. Simple, junior high level fundamentals and Baylor loses this game by 21 points.

You tell me where the problem is.

[Peach Fuzz]

Hence why you need discipline.

Watch the LBs every time we get stung on a QB bouncing the pocket. The OL never loses THEIR depth, our LBs lose theirs. They make their read and establish space, then suck right up tight to the LOS and eat a block. A shimmy here, a shake there, and not only is the QB busting a big one on the ground, our LBs never get a finger on it because they can't flow to the tackle or stay clean long enough to flow in the damn first place. When they stay in space, they look AMAZING. When they suck up to the LOS (a shockingly large majority of the time), they've already lost. They're speed guys, sideline to sideline guys. They got no business whatsoever being within 4 yards of the LOS unless they're attacking a gap/ballcarrier. The tradeoff is if they get free, it's a ZERO yard carry. The other hand is if they don't (which they usually don't, it's an easy block for an OL, picking on little guys), they have no impact on the play whatsoever. Then it's a DB coming off coverage to make a tackle, which in turn often turns into a flushed pocket strike for a nice chunk of yards.

It's really sad. It's not aggressiveness, it's stupidity.

Agreed for the most part. The way of thinking they can just run over any OL and get the QB even though they are contain is what bad high school teams are coached. We have no room for that here, yet it happens many, many times a game.

LB is just a tough position for us at the moment. Nelson is getting his **** done, but Wort and Lewis couldn't cover a window with curtains to save their lives. Don't even get me started on the missed tackles. I think a lot of our LB problem is that they are just plain and simply over-rated.

[MamaMia]

1) I would get better field goal kicker. We have missed too many game changing points.

2) We have never been able to adequately defend against the pass since Venebles has been here so its time to get a coordinator that can get the job done

3) We need a new defensive secondary coach

4) I would go to the NFL to get replacements if need be

5) I would play a LOT more man to man with my newly recruited bigger, taller and faster players

6)With these taller, bigger and faster defensive backs, I would hit them at the line of scrimmage and knock the opponents off their routes.

7) My team would do a much better job of tackling. I would make sure they wrap them up and work on their timing

8) The secondary D is allowing the opponents receivers to be wide open. To change that we need to hit them at the line of scrimmage and cover them with more man to man following through with that coverage, making sure they don't catch the ball. Our secondary players would turn the he!! around and go after that ball more.

*With the zone, whats happening is the opponents move out of the that particular zone and the man in the next zone is too far away. There is no coverage in between the zones.

9) When our opponents have a scrambling QB, our players stop covering their receivers as well, which means at some point they are going to be open.

10) I would incorporate some martial arts into the conditioning aspect to help prevent injuries. Martial arts makes you more agile and less injury pron.

11) Another thing thats hurts us is having a one dimensional QB, who our opponents are never intimidated by.

[OUInformant]

What defensive scheme would you run? What about the offensive scheme? Would you have a special teams coach?


:biggrin:

To preface, I am a soccer coach and not a football coach (though my team was undefeated this Fall), so I would hope the OU coaches know far more than me.

It would take a long time for me to write what I would do, but in a nutshell, I would shift my coverages depending upon the down and required first-down yardage. I would frequently run man-to-man blitzes on 1st, 2nd and 10, employing a Cover 1 scheme, especially against bad QBs (with 4 linemen and 3 LBs always). Since OU's DBs should be better than most WRs, I would play man-to-man most of the time, regardless of the situation. It seems that most LBs can't cover very well, so I always cringe when linemen or LBs drop into coverage. I would rather have them try to bat down balls. If I were OU, I would keep the defense simple, as I feel that OU's defense is athletic and skilled but always confused (and looking to the sideline).

I would definitely employ a special teams coach. I would try to block punts, FGs, and return kicks. OU hasn't returned a kick in a long long time. I would make special teams a game-changer, like Frank Beamer.

I liked the old 1995 Nebraska "loco" style of playing defense.

Offensively, I would scrap this Texas Tech style of offense that we play. It worked with Sam Bradford, the #1 NFL draft pick, but it fails against good defenses (it even did with Bradford against Florida). As good as the Belldozer looks, I would get a big run/pass guy like him and some elite FBs and TEs and play smash-mouth football until I basically demoralize teams. You don't need some elite gun-slinger to do this either, just a guy who can occasionally deliver a crisp pass. Then I would rely on playing physical defense and having special teams that are, indeed, "special".

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Not disagreeing with you at all on this...

but I think if we coached it, our athletes would be able to perform it.

Right now, the problem with the DBs is what someone said here. They are taught to help in run support. And we you are taught that by your coaches, then you are going to bite on Play action and even double move routes.

The problem is where do you find time for all of this coaching. The coaches are allowed interaction with the players for a little less than 100 total hours from the end of the bowl game until the 1st game. The Pros rip through that in 2 weeks. I just don't think that you can get overly complicated on defense, you have to pick a style and go with it for your primary cover guys (either man or zone). And then hope and pray that you can find some safeties that can understand some complicated schemes.

[Peach Fuzz]

Playing soft man in the B12 is just asking for a double-move bite.

[TXBOOMER]

I prefer more ball control offense. I would like to see them mix in more of the bell dozer and let LJ slow the pace. We don't need to keep exposing the weak defense. I like a 4-3 base defense, but they have to play nickel alot because of the schemes they face. I would like to see more man coverage and more blitzing also more jamming receivers off of the line of scrimmage. But that ain't gonna happen so it don't make a F&&K.

[MamaMia]

Playing soft man in the B12 is just asking for a double-move bite.The best way to defend against that is to refrain from holding and knock him on the ground before that ball is thrown. That'll fix that.

I would even sacrifice a couple of penalties right off the bat for roughing or whatever to let them know they aren't up against a bunch of sissies.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Since OU's DBs should be better than most WRs, I would play man-to-man most of the time, regardless of the situation.

The problem with this is the underlying assumption. Your assumption is based on the unreality that OU recruits elite cover cornerbacks and always has. This assumption is disproved by looking historically at what we've put into the NFL. As a matter of a fact, the lack of corners drafted at OU speaks to your assumption being the opposite.

My argument is based on the idea that schools tend to attract certain types of athletes at certain positions. When you historically look at OU, you'll have a hard time with any list of linebackers, defensive line, running backs and safeties. Thus even when we have crappy coaches (Gibbs/Schnelly/Blake) we still have good talent at these positions we've historically been good at. However, when you look at other positions like Corner/WR the list is so small that it quickly goes from X 2000's player to X 1970's player to X 1950's player.

[Peach Fuzz]

Without a doubt. The best secondaries are the most physical.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Without a doubt. The best secondaries are the most physical.

I definitely agree with this, but unlike the front 7, play in the secondary is controlled by the guys with the yellow hankies. If you've watched SEC games at all over the last decade, some of their best defenses have been beaten by 5-6 PI calls.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I am talking about either a 5-2-4 defense or a 3-4-4 defense.

This is an interesting post as its basically what we've been running all season. I've seen plays where we had Alexander, Ronnell, a DT, RJ and David King on the field at the same time (with 2 linebackers which killed the thing). I think running a 3-4 suits OU historically better than a 4-3 but I don't trust our current staff to be able to recruit to it.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

5) I would play a LOT more man to man with my newly recruited bigger, taller and faster players

No offense, but this statement isn't grounded in reality. Taller/Bigger players tend to suck in man to man coverage because they can't turn their hips or accelerate as fast as a smaller player. If you want to play man to man you inevitably have to go with smaller players.

[Johnny Utah]

I definitely agree with this, but unlike the front 7, play in the secondary is controlled by the guys with the yellow hankies. If you've watched SEC games at all over the last decade, some of their best defenses have been beaten by 5-6 PI calls.

... which in the Big 12 would be at least 10-12 PI calls. As others have posted, the coaches, administrators, etc really need to fix the officiating in the Big 12 so that its remaining teams can be competitive in OOC games.

[MamaMia]

I definitely agree with this, but unlike the front 7, play in the secondary is controlled by the guys with the yellow hankies. If you've watched SEC games at all over the last decade, some of their best defenses have been beaten by 5-6 PI calls. I doubt that. You wont be penalized if you knock them on their asses before the ball is thrown, or if you turn around and are going for the ball after the release. The secondary defense has just as much right to that ball as the receiver.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I prefer more ball control offense. I would like to see them mix in more of the bell dozer and let LJ slow the pace. We don't need to keep exposing the weak defense. I like a 4-3 base defense, but they have to play nickel alot because of the schemes they face. I would like to see more man coverage and more blitzing also more jamming receivers off of the line of scrimmage. But that ain't gonna happen so it don't make a F&&K.

Heh, the funny thing is that your defense tends to mirror your offense. I just don't think its possible to sustain a high scoring finesse offense and a physical defense at the same time.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I doubt that. You wont be penalized if you knock them on their asses before the ball is thrown, or if you turn around and are going for the ball. That secondary defense has just as much right to the ball as the receiver.

According to the rules. Yes. According to how the big 12 calls it? No. If you have any doubt go back and look at that first PI call in the Baylor game. There was nothing there but 2 guys chicken fighting for an uncatchable ball thrown 10 yards out of bounds.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I doubt that. You wont be penalized if you knock them on their asses before the ball is thrown, or if you turn around and are going for the ball after the release. The secondary defense has just as much right to that ball as the receiver.

Oh and as far as the jamming at the LOS, there was a game back in 2001 I believe where Quentin Jammer got flagged 3 times for defensive holding for jamming at the LOS. Its why there is no silver bullet for secondary coverage.

[Johnny Utah]

Heh, the funny thing is that your defense tends to mirror your offense. I just don't think its possible to sustain a high scoring finesse offense and a physical defense at the same time.

A somewhat bigger question ... how/why do you all think Stoops, who made his reputation as a defensive coach, transitioned to this finesse offense and bend don't break defense philosophy?

[MamaMia]

No offense, but this statement isn't grounded in reality. Taller/Bigger players tend to suck in man to man coverage because they can't turn their hips or accelerate as fast as a smaller player. If you want to play man to man you inevitably have to go with smaller players. I disagree. Look at Blackman from oSu as just one example of a physical specimen. So if you had a DB built like Blackman who is fairly tall, fast and strong, he would be able to able to get the job done as a DB. It depends on the player. If you have players with the same physical attributes they should be able to defend man to man. You have to know who you are recruiting and why.

[MamaMia]

Oh and as far as the jamming at the LOS, there was a game back in 2001 I believe where Quentin Jammer got flagged 3 times for defensive holding for jamming at the LOS. Its why there is no silver bullet for secondary coverage.If he got flagged he must have been holding. You dont have to hold to jam.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I disagree. Look at Blackman from oSu as just one example of a physical specimen. So if you had a DB built like Blackman who is fairly tall, fast and strong, he would be able to able to get the job done as a DB. It depends on the player. If you have players with the same physical attributes they should be able to defend man to man. You have to know who you are recruiting and why.

In the Stoops era, I've seen exactly 2 corners over 6'1 that could cover -> Terrance Newman and Myron Rolle. The next best after that is probably our very own Chijoke Onyenegecha who was a below average college corner.

The reason that it works at receiver is that they are a) always going forward and b) they know where they are going. If you took Blackmon and put him into a backpedal and had to deal with 18 directional fakes he'd fail miserably.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

If he got flagged he must have been holding. You dont have to hold to jam.


Rule 9 covers "Conduct of Players and Others Subject to the Rules." Section 3 covers "Blocking, Use of Hands or Arms" and Section 4 is directed at defensive players. Section 3, Article 4 of Rule 9 states that a "defensive player may use hands and arms to push, pull, ward off or lift offensive players when attempting to reach the runner." But they may not use hands and arms to tackle, hold or otherwise illegally obstruct an opponent other than a ball carrier.

Here is the rule, you tell me if some lesser trained ref might be disagree with you.

[MamaMia]

In the Stoops era, I've seen exactly 2 corners over 6'1 that could cover -> Terrance Newman and Myron Rolle. The next best after that is probably our very own Chijoke Onyenegecha who was a below average college corner.

The reason that it works at receiver is that they are a) always going forward and b) they know where they are going. If you took Blackmon and put him into a backpedal and had to deal with 18 directional fakes he'd fail miserably. I'm not saying that Blackman would be a good defensive back. I'm saying that someone with his physique who was recruited and coached to play that type of coverage would help us do a better job of defending against the pass.

Onyenegecha was a below average player in my opinion. He got burned numerous times mostly on double moves. He bit too hard on the 1st move allowing the reciever to go around him, and with no help behind him...on an island.

[toast]

For myself, part of the equation would be: a) which assistant coaches I could get and their strengths and b) what type of athletes could I consistently recruit and keep on campus. Defensively would probably lean more to 4-3 and offensively, I'm old school and like to utilize fb and te vs spread.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I'm not saying that Blackman would be a good defensive back. I'm saying that someone with his physique who was recruited and coached to play that type of coverage would help us do a better hob of defending against the pass.

And those kids are almost wholly playing wideout. And the fact remains, just like JKM posed, that the bigger the kid (excluding freakish physical specimens that come once a decade), the less he'll be able to react and close to moves in the route. The fact is that the WR has the advantage from jump. They know the pattern, they can adjust body position to take advantage of the DBs address within the constraints of the route, and is one change of direction away from space. A foot can be the difference between well defensed and a 15 yard reception. That's WELL within the ability of a moderate WR, let alone a decent one.

So what's the answer? Smaller frames, quicker reaction to address the advantages the wideout has. The ability to change direction and close space with quickness to be able to maintain coverage against all the advantages listed. All that AND manage to not snag a PI call. It's simple physics that a 6'1", 220 pound kid is NOT going to be able to do these things like a similarly physically inclined 5'9", 175 pound kid. That is an undeniable consistency. To think otherwise is just wishful thinking.

[MamaMia]

Here is the rule, you tell me if some lesser trained ref might be disagree with you. They aren't going to flag them if you jam them at the line. Now...once they clear the line, you can still hit them but it has to be before the ball is released and you cant use your hands.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

The jam isn't the end-all, be-all either.

To jam a wideout, you have to close to engage. Any WR coach worth his salt will lateral step his initial moves, maintain timing by doing so, and turn your jamming CB into a CB that's a half step beat from the snap. It's a tool, not a system.

Even some of the best bump cover corners in the NFL don't jam every down, nor do they want to. It's a constant back and forth in support of the defensive call and in attempting to keep wide receivers off-balance in their decision making. Do I open laterally? Do I angle the sideline on his inside-eye? Do I engage and separate? Do I hit the push to set up the stop?

Point being, you roll bodies up and get physical every down you're gonna get torched. Does it have a place? Hell yeah. But again, it's a tool, not a system.

[MamaMia]

The jam isn't the end-all, be-all either.

To jam a wideout, you have to close to engage. Any WR coach worth his salt will lateral step his initial moves, maintain timing by doing so, and turn your jamming CB into a CB that's a half step beat from the snap. It's a tool, not a system.

Even some of the best bump cover corners in the NFL don't jam every down, nor do they want to. It's a constant back and forth in support of the defensive call and in attempting to keep wide receivers off-balance in their decision making. Do I open laterally? Do I angle the sideline on his inside-eye? Do I engage and separate? Do I hit the push to set up the stop?

Point being, you roll bodies up and get physical every down you're gonna get torched. Does it have a place? Hell yeah. But again, it's a tool, not a system.tool...system...whatever you want to call it, we need to do it.

anything is better than just standing there until their receivers catch the ball. Whatever it takes to keep the ball out of the receivers hands, thats what we need to do.

[OU_Sooners75]

I wish this place had a graphic mod so we could draw up formations and stuff. heh.


But in all seriousness, for OU to be paying a Defensive Coordinator $1,000,000, one would think he would be able to divise a defensive scheme, and have the know how, to shut the opposing offense down with 2 weeks to prepare for a team.

I honestly do not know the correct answer, or if there is one. But until something changes, then we Sooner fans need to just expect 1-2 losses every year!

BOOMER!

[Peach Fuzz]

In high school we played against blackmon. We had either the end or the Rover jam him on each and every play while the cb had the third coverage on his side. We we're a lot smaller than him and held him to nothing basically. All he could do was run a post or fade and we had the speed to hang with him and defend as long as it's not a jump ball. Final score Clinton 42 Plainview 7. He managed to get a 50 yarder on broken coverage. So my point is, if you can give him a blow withing the first 3 yards, he's gonna have a frustrating, long day.

Baylor's WRs are more of a threat than OSU's IMO. Not because of talent, but the style of their routs. If we can stop the biting on double moves against JB, they will have a lot harder time. Their biggest advantage for him is the play action which scares me to death with our LBs and Safeties.

[MamaMia]

..or 3. Buckle up.

[East Coast Bias]

I am no football expert, but it seems our secondary just doesn't know the basics of coverage. They have no awareness of where the ball is, when to shield etc. On that last scoring play our man was with the receiver stride for stride then just let the receiver move to the ball at the end. His deep help was totally lost on who to cover or where to go. He looked the part of the "stunned sooner" at the end of the game. If you think back our traditional problem has been covering short stuff over the middle, the coaches have done better addressing that this year. Receivers are getting deep with way too much separation if the D-line doesn't shorten the play. It seems we are getting the talent but can't or don't have time to teach the skills. At times our safeties seem so lost maybe we should run man to man and make it easier for them to make the right reads?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

They aren't going to flag them if you jam them at the line. Now...once they clear the line, you can still hit them but it has to be before the ball is released and you cant use your hands.

You are acting as if its some unbiased unchanging judge determining this. Penalty flags are as consistant as the scoring in Figure Skating.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

In high school we played against blackmon. We had either the end or the Rover jam him on each and every play while the cb had the third coverage on his side. We we're a lot smaller than him and held him to nothing basically. All he could do was run a post or fade and we had the speed to hang with him and defend as long as it's not a jump ball. Final score Clinton 42 Plainview 7. He managed to get a 50 yarder on broken coverage. So my point is, if you can give him a blow withing the first 3 yards, he's gonna have a frustrating, long day.

Baylor's WRs are more of a threat than OSU's IMO. Not because of talent, but the style of their routs. If we can stop the biting on double moves against JB, they will have a lot harder time. Their biggest advantage for him is the play action which scares me to death with our LBs and Safeties.

Heh, I'm trying to imagine how our fans would react if we had Frank Alexander out there giving Blackmon a jam.

The problem with the jam is that there are a lot of ways to get out of it. Jamming can be defeated by motion, picks, rub routes etc (picks are especially deadly as you basically give the guy a touchdown). Yes picks are illegal but they are RARELY called.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I am no football expert, but it seems our secondary just doesn't know the basics of coverage. They have no awareness of where the ball is, when to shield etc. On that last scoring play our man was with the receiver stride for stride then just let the receiver move to the ball at the end. His deep help was totally lost on who to cover or where to go. He looked the part of the "stunned sooner" at the end of the game. If you think back our traditional problem has been covering short stuff over the middle, the coaches have done better addressing that this year. Receivers are getting deep with way too much separation if the D-line doesn't shorten the play. It seems we are getting the talent but can't or don't have time to teach the skills. At times our safeties seem so lost maybe we should run man to man and make it easier for them to make the right reads?

In Proctor's defense, he was in a no win situation. He had coverage forever (5-6 seconds), he was alone with a guy in the end zone and he can't look back for fear of losing the guy and then the WR got away with a push off to get open. Once again, push offs are illegal but they are rarely called unless your name is Kenny Stills.

[Peach Fuzz]

That's kind of my point in a poorly explained way. We can't jam him without basically manning up and I don't see us being able to do it. I do think we have to find a way to disrupt routs. I'm at a loss as to how we can do that with the current organization.

[MamaMia]

You are acting as if its some unbiased unchanging judge determining this. Penalty flags are as consistant as the scoring in Figure Skating. If you jam them in their pad area, it is NOT going to be flagged. Period. Thats what we need to do at times to let them know that we are not just going to allow them to run their routes unckecked.

[OKLA21FAN]

JKM,
what was your opinion of going for the '4th and 12' (or so) inside the red zone with less than 7 minutes left in the game down by 14. Immediately, I told the fan sitting next to me, that taking the FG was a good plan, cause 'we were going to get the ball back two more times' (which we did and we know the results of those two possessions.) I just felt like this going for it was a 'desperation' move. Those 3 points (although with our kicking game is always an adventure) would have obviously huge going into the final minute'

I'll hang up and listen off the air....thanks ;)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

If you jam them in their pad area, it is NOT going to be flagged. Period. Thats what we need to do at times to let them know that we are not just going to allow them to run their routes unckecked.

You can't absolutely say this because you are talking about 40-99 year old men watching it from 20-70 yards away.

Lets talk about some other rules that technically you can never get called for -> Late hit out of bounds. In the 2008 Texas game, we got called for this 3 different times when Colt just flopped on the sidelines. All 3 extended drives and resulted in 17 points in a game we lost by 10. The last one was so laughable because our guys had their hands up and he flopped anyway and got the call even though no one touched him.

There is also a technical problem that you aren't addressing. Jamming in the pad area is easier the closer you are to the guy your jamming. Anything more than 2 yards is a crapshoot. One other little Big 12 officiatingism is that they are a lot more lax than other leagues on what constitutes being on the line of scrimmage. It isn't uncommon for a flexed WR to be a yard behind the ball and still considered on the line of scrimmage. This is just another tool that can defeat jamming and why we basically went away from it after the 1999 season.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

JKM,
what was your opinion of going for the '4th and 12' (or so) inside the red zone with less than 7 minutes left in the game down by 14. Immediately, I told the fan sitting next to me, that taking the FG was a good plan, cause 'we were going to get the ball back two more times' (which we did and we know the results of those two possessions.) I just felt like this going for it was a 'desperation' move. Those 3 points (although with our kicking game is always an adventure) would have obviously huge going into the final minute'

I'll hang up and listen off the air....thanks ;)

Hitting those throws is not LJ's strong suit, thus you try for points. JW and NH were excellent at hitting those so it would have been a good call then.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

On the other hand, there's a HUGE difference between "jamming a wideout" and good ol' fashioned press coverage. I'd donate a kidney to a person of your choice if we'd see more of that, ESPECIALLY in support of the blitz with safeties over.

[BoulderSooner79]

My one "couch coach" recommendation is very specific and I've been playing this broken record since the TT game when Whaley was sick (sorry). We need to get Brandon Williams a larger role in the offense. His running style is similar to Whaley's and he looks like a break out game about to happen. I like Finch as much as the rest of you, but he is not an every down back. Broyles was the best player on our team and he was sorely missed yesterday. But I think losing Whaley has actually had more negative impact. Our running effectiveness has evaporated (outside the Belldozer) and that has bled through to the whole team including defense. If our schemes are so complex that we can't get a talent like Williams on the field when he is sorely needed, then I question the scheme more than the player. Maybe consider huddling up (*gasp*) and explain his responsibilities each play until he gets comfortable.

I know, totally stupid. Carry on.

[bluedogok]

I disagree. Look at Blackman from oSu as just one example of a physical specimen. So if you had a DB built like Blackman who is fairly tall, fast and strong, he would be able to able to get the job done as a DB. It depends on the player. If you have players with the same physical attributes they should be able to defend man to man. You have to know who you are recruiting and why.
Big guys like that become receivers not DB's, the receiver types who are small become DB's, there just aren't that many with a similar size. The majority of DB's in college and the NFL are much smaller than the receivers they cover.


If he got flagged he must have been holding. You dont have to hold to jam.
You don't have to be holding to be called for it either, especially in the Big 12. Holding is purely a judgmental call the majority of the time since they could pretty much call it on multiple players on any play. It all comes to to the officials judgment and most do not call penalties on what they actually see, they call them on what they think they see.


If you jam them in their pad area, it is NOT going to be flagged. Period. Thats what we need to do at times to let them know that we are not just going to allow them to run their routes unckecked.
Maybe in the SEC where their officials allow the DB's to mug receivers, it doesn't apply to Big 12 officials.

[BoulderSooner79]

Speaking of PI penalties.. It hit me while I was watching ISU/OSU Friday that there were at least 3-4 PI flags (both ways) that would have never been flagged by SEC officials. It's tough, but you have to adapt to the rules as they are applied in your conference. I guess ADs can lobby about rules interpretation between seasons, but you have not much teams can do during the season.