GETTING BEAT DEEP

[ictsooner7]

WHEN IS THE PROBLEM GOING TO BE FIXED? THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE ATM IN 2003 OR '04. FIX THE DAMN PROBLEM, IF IT TAKES NEW COACHS, SO BE IT. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF GETTING BEAT AND HAVING BOBBY SAY ITS EXECUTION. HOW MANY PLAYERS HAVE WE ROTATED THROUGH SINCE ATM? IT IS NOT THE PLAYERS, IT IS COACHING!

FIX THE PROBLEM!

[landrun]

You're right. But the homers here don't want to admit it, or hear it. I guess they'd rather thump their chest because we beat Texas. The fact that we just choked away a national championship chance .... again .... with outstanding players is meaningless to them. I really don't get it. Why these annual embarrassments are now acceptable to the Sooner program is beyond me.

[pappy]

You're right. But the homers here don't want to admit it, or hear it. I guess they'd rather thump their chest because we beat Texas. The fact that we just choked away a national championship chance .... again .... with outstanding players is meaningless to them. I really don't get it. Why these annual embarrassments are now acceptable to the Sooner program is beyond me.

this.

[cleller]

Its hard to fire people you look on as family.

[bonkuba]

Its hard to fire people you look on as family.

Every relative needs the **** kicked out of em every now and then.

[PhilTLL]

Okay...how would you change the coaching? Tell us your surefire formations. Do you think they tell the players "Listen, boys, I really want you to bite like hell on those play fakes!" If you want to look at it as a recruiting problem, that makes more sense. But do you think letting a guy run past you by ten yards is really a "you haven't been properly coached" issue?

Edit to add: I think we do have coaching issues, but they're more about fire and focus. What schemes would have prevented that nonsense last night? And did we have any pass rush to speak of?

[diverdog]

Okay...how would you change the coaching? Tell us your surefire formations. Do you think they tell the players "Listen, boys, I really want you to bite like hell on those play fakes!" If you want to look at it as a recruiting problem, that makes more sense. But do you think letting a guy run past you by ten yards is really a "you haven't been properly coached" issue?

One of the big issues from what I understand is that Brent's defense is overly complicated and players are constantly out of position.

But lets face it we ran into a really good quarterback last night and he exposed us.

[PhilTLL]

One of the big issues from what I understand is that Brent's defense is overly complicated and players are constantly out of position.

But lets face it we ran into a really good quarterback last night and he exposed us.

Hm, this actually makes sense. I hadn't really contemplated that before.

And yes, we did get exposed by a really good, really mobile quarterback.

[DocD]

You have to ask yourself if this would happen against the LSU or Bama defense. We all know it wouldn't. This is who we are comparing ourselves to and who we should be comparing ourselves to . . . the best. And we have consistently come up way short of that in the pas 6-8 years on defense.

[ictsooner7]

Okay...how would you change the coaching? Tell us your surefire formations. Do you think they tell the players "Listen, boys, I really want you to bite like hell on those play fakes!" If you want to look at it as a recruiting problem, that makes more sense. But do you think letting a guy run past you by ten yards is really a "you haven't been properly coached" issue?

Edit to add: I think we do have coaching issues, but they're more about fire and focus. What schemes would have prevented that nonsense last night? And did we have any pass rush to speak of?

This is a typical red herring argument, what would you do? What do you want them to do? It is not my job to coach defense at the University of Oklahoma, it is Brent Venables job. HE is responsible for the defense, not me. He is getting paid to coach defense, not me. He needs to do his job, 479 yards passing and 4 td's is not doing his job. Driving 70something yards in 51 seconds is not doing HIS job, I do my job, he needs to do his better. PERIOD!

[rekamrettuB]

You have to ask yourself if this would happen against the LSU or Bama defense. We all know it wouldn't. This is who we are comparing ourselves to and who we should be comparing ourselves to . . . the best. And we have consistently come up way short of that in the pas 6-8 years on defense.

I'm sorry but it would if Bamma/LSU had to face it week in and week out. The SEC does not have the QBs or the systems in place to run these offenses consistently.

[Curly Bill]

I'm not by any means an SEC fan, but if they chose to run offenses like we see in the Big 12 they could easily do so. Instead they've chosen what would seem to be a better path with more pro-style offenses and teams built around defense. I don't think there's any question as to which conference has chosen correctly.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I'm not by any means an SEC fan, but if they chose to run offenses like we see in the Big 12 they could easily do so. Instead they've chosen what would seem to be a better path with more pro-style offenses and teams built around defense. I don't think there's any question as to which conference has chosen correctly.

Absolutely agreed; they have 5 titles in a row and probably looking at number 6 this season

[SoonerLB]

Okay...how would you change the coaching? Tell us your surefire formations. Do you think they tell the players "Listen, boys, I really want you to bite like hell on those play fakes!" If you want to look at it as a recruiting problem, that makes more sense. But do you think letting a guy run past you by ten yards is really a "you haven't been properly coached" issue?

EXACTLY!! Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we do not have "outsanding" defensive players, we have mediocre defensive players that at times seem not so smart. We've all been force fed recruiting kool aid, and it's not as sweet as we were led to believe it would be. You can't coach stupid, it just comes naturally.

[Curly Bill]

You can try to avoid recruiting stupid. If we're recruiting stupid that's as big or bigger problem than poor coaching. Either way they are players that this staff brought in, and has coached.

[Jacie]

If internet forums had been in existance in 1982, The King would not have been around to win #6 . . .

[SOONER44EVER]

Its hard to fire people you look on as family. Other coaches do it all the time.

[Curly Bill]

I still say BV has incriminating pictures on Bob - it's the only explanation! LoL

[SOONER44EVER]

You can try to avoid recruiting stupid. If we're recruiting stupid that's as big or bigger problem than poor coaching. Either way they are players that this staff brought in, and has coached. And it's the coaches who leave certain players getting beat over and over out on the field.

[Curly Bill]

It's not like coaching in high school where you just have to work with what you got. At the college level, especially the level OU is on, if there's a problem with the players it largely comes back to the coaches. Either recruit better & smarter players, coach them better, or change your scheme to attract better players, but it's on the coaches one way or the other.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

When I see these threads and notice the years where they eliminate the Mike Stoops years, does anyone not remember 1999 or 2000, 2001, or 2002? It happened then too.

[LiveLaughLove]

If internet forums had been in existance in 1982, The King would not have been around to win #6 . . .

Herring, the color of which is red.

The King wouldn't give two craps what is said here, and neither does Stoops.

These boards are for the fans. We crow like roosters when things are swell, and blat like sheep when things go to hell.

Every schools fans do it. There is a lot of knowledge in the collective, and a lot of lunacy. Up to each to decide which is which.

[OU_Sooners75]

EXACTLY!! Contrary to what some people seem to believe, we do not have "outsanding" defensive players, we have mediocre defensive players that at times seem not so smart. We've all been force fed recruiting kool aid, and it's not as sweet as we were led to believe it would be. You can't coach stupid, it just comes naturally.

You are a ****ing idiot if you are calling our kids stupid!
Care to explain why this happens every year, even in years when these kids were in Junior high?

This is coaching...and yes, some coaches do teach to play aggressive or to cheat up on the middle routes.

Jesus...I am tired of the dumbasses coming in here and saying it is all players and calling the 17-22 year old kids stupid!

Fact...OU runs a very complicated defense....the coaches decide that. The coaches should be held responsible for the consistent failures over the span of 10 years...not the players!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Fact...OU runs a very complicated defense....the coaches decide that. The coaches should be held responsible for the consistent failures over the span of 10 years...not the players!

Wow, it almost sounds like you've changed your reasoning on why our coaches are failing ;)

The only point that I'd add is that we run a very complicated defense without an identity.

[LVSOONER15]

You're right. But the homers here don't want to admit it, or hear it. I guess they'd rather thump their chest because we beat Texas. The fact that we just choked away a national championship chance .... again .... with outstanding players is meaningless to them. I really don't get it. Why these annual embarrassments are now acceptable to the Sooner program is beyond me.

I second that.

[engineer24]

the difference is that OU's defensive philosophy is that the secondary has to be just as good playing against the run as they do the pass. Other teams dont teach that, they let the front 7 concentrate on the run and let the back 4 deal with protecting against the deep ball. How many times has the LSU secondary been beaten by a deep ball in the last 5 years?

As a secondary player, if you are tasked with responding to the run plays, you are going to bite all the time on play fakes, zone reads, etc. If your only responsibilty is to cover your WR, then you dont get beat deep very often.

Now Bob Stoops will go on his press conference tomorrow and say that its an "execution" issue, that the secondary didnt read their keys properly and over-reacted to the run.

I'm telling you that if you took the elite LSU secondary and made them play this scheme, they would also get burned repeatedly by deep passes. At some level you need to understand as a coach that these guys are not NFL players -- they cant read offenses and react to both run and pass without giving something up. Apparently Bob Stoops has decided that his scheme and players its better to take a chance of getting beat by the deep ball so they can focus all 11 players on stopping the run.

[EatLeadCommie]

Its hard to fire people you look on as family.

This. The ultimatum has to come from Joe or Boren. Joe is probably too close to the coach and their families, so it's gonna have to come from Boren.

[I Am Right]

coaching

[OU_Sooners75]

Wow, it almost sounds like you've changed your reasoning on why our coaches are failing ;)

The only point that I'd add is that we run a very complicated defense without an identity.

Show me where I have even changed my stance? The coaches are failing...and the failures are occurring in more than just one area.

The defensive philosophy is too complicated for these young kids.
The coaches have them thinking and not reacting.
The coaches keep the wrong personnel on the field for way too long.
etc, etc.

There is enough adding to the failure on our defense that you can almost write a book on it!