Ron Paul, surging ahead

[MR2-Sooner86]

http://i41.tinypic.com/281eaz6.gif

Romney Two-Way Race Now Four-Way Republican Dead Heat in Iowa (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-15/romney-two-way-race-is-now-four-way-republican-dead-heat-in-iowa-caucuses.html)


A Bloomberg News poll shows Cain at 20 percent, Paul at 19 percent, Romney at 18 percent and Gingrich at 17 percent among the likely attendees with the caucuses that start the nominating contests seven weeks away.

The poll was conducted by the same pollster who conducted the Des Moines Register poll.

The Des Moines results from the 2008 caucus.
Huckabee: 32%
Romney: 26
McCain: 13
Thompson: 9
Paul: 9

And the actual results:
Huckabee: 34%
Romney: 25
Thompson: 13
McCain: 13
Paul: 9.93

So aside from Thompson, they were close in 2008.

A big thanks to all those in the campaign putting in all the time and hard work.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Nov 17, 2011

Newt Gingrich Surges in Iowa

By Mark Whittington

A Rasmussen poll of likely Iowa Republican voters shows that former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has roared into the lead, getting 32 percent of the vote. Mitt Romney and Herman Cain trail at 19 percent and 13 percent, respectively.

Ron Paul follows with 10 percent and the rest of the field are in single digits.

The surge of Gingrich has constituted one of the most remarkable comebacks in recent political history. His campaign was all but given up for dead last June in the midst of staff departures and a number of missteps. But now, Gingrich is not just the front-runner for the role of conservative alternative to Romney, he is the front runner in fact and against all.

Many Republicans have found favor with Gingrich because of an appealing image of him taking down President Obama in a debate. He has shined consistently in the many Republican candidate forums, including the Lincoln-Douglas style meeting he had with Herman Cain. Republicans want a conservative in the Oval Office. They also want to win. Gingrich seems to fit both criteria, for the moment.

The bad news for Gingrich is that the reason for his sudden surge is that he is just the latest candidate to attract the attention of Republican voters. Bachmann, Perry, and Cain have all risen, only to fall hard once weaknesses have become apparent. It is now Gingrich's time to be in the sun, and to be a target.

Gingrich brings to his front-runner status decades of political experience and a first-class mind. He also brings a record that is open to attack, the most recent of which is a lucrative consulting contract he enjoyed with Freddie Mac. He also has a temperament that can be prickly at times. He is working on the last, attempting with some success to be a calm, statesmanlike adult.

The question arises: Can Gingrich maintain his position as front-runner through the early primaries and caucuses when some of the also-rans will fall by the wayside? Or will he be knocked from his pedestal as others have before him, to be replaced by someone else?

That remains to be seen as the political season grinds on

[SanJoaquinSooner]

but I believe Iowa will be the peak of whoever the cultural conservatives anoint, with Romney taking New Hampshire and eventually the nomination.

[SCOUT]

Gingrich is like Paul in some ways. They have the most concrete and actionable ideas but their persona's won't allow them to win.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Gingrich is like Paul in some ways. They have the most concrete and actionable ideas but their persona's won't allow them to win.

agreed.

I think Iowa pubs would embrace Cain in a heart beat, but the Libya meltdown was just too much following a tough couple of weeks.... He looked as lost as Perry. In some ways worse.

[AlboSooner]

Anybody but Romney.~ GOP

[Jason Alexander]

I cant believe you's guys just compared Gingrich to Paul. Newt is a bully in a suit.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I cant believe you's guys just compared Gingrich to Paul. Newt is a bully in a suit.

What makes it interesting is that Gingrich is Bill Clinton's evil twin brother.

And I think Ann Coulter hates Gingrich more than she hates Clinton or McCain.

[AlboSooner]

Paul will always surge and never be elected.

He's a great candidate to support if by nature you are a contrarian.

[StoopTroup]

Bachman will own them all

[SicEmBaylor]

And I think Ann Coulter hates Gingrich more than she hates Clinton or McCain.
Between Coulter, Gingrich, Clinton, and McCain -- I like Clinton the most.

[SicEmBaylor]

Paul will always surge and never be elected.

He's a great candidate to support if by nature you are an American.
Fify.

[marfacowboy]

He sure looked more intelligent than the rest of those knuckleheads last night. Huntsman doesn't seem dumb or insane. Ron Paul made Cain look like a ignorant moron on the question of bombing Iran.

[KantoSooner]

Huntsman and Gingrich actually knew what they were talking about and had thought about foreign affairs on their own. Romney was very well prepared, but this is clearly not what he cares about; his mucking into a near trainwreck by suggesting a clear violation of Posse Comitatus was evidence enough of that. Santorum beats the same drum he has for ten years. Philosophically pure, electable at the state level, but not fit for national command. Bachman had the breakout performance of the night. She sounded engaged and thoughtful instead of her usual bewildered and mis/uninformed and bat**** crazy. Low expectations are her friend. Ron Paul, bless his heart, missed the whole isolationism debate prior to our getting into WWI. He ought to go back and read the transcripts. Perry and Cain are pathetic nincompoops whose minders shouldn't have dressed them up and let them go outdoors last night.

Best exchange of the night was when Newt answered Ron Paul's assertion that normal criminal law had worked just fine in the OKC bombing investigation. "After the bombing succeeded, that's kind of the point."

[Ton Loc]

Huntsman and Gingrich actually knew what they were talking about and had thought about foreign affairs on their own. Romney was very well prepared, but this is clearly not what he cares about; his mucking into a near trainwreck by suggesting a clear violation of Posse Comitatus was evidence enough of that. Santorum beats the same drum he has for ten years. Philosophically pure, electable at the state level, but not fit for national command. Bachman had the breakout performance of the night. She sounded engaged and thoughtful instead of her usual bewildered and mis/uninformed and bat**** crazy. Low expectations are her friend. Ron Paul, bless his heart, missed the whole isolationism debate prior to our getting into WWI. He ought to go back and read the transcripts. Perry and Cain are pathetic nincompoops whose minders shouldn't have dressed them up and let them go outdoors last night.

Best exchange of the night was when Newt answered Ron Paul's assertion that normal criminal law had worked just fine in the OKC bombing investigation. "After the bombing succeeded, that's kind of the point."

What's the deal with Huntsman again? I saw him on a few different shows the last week or so and he seems not to be an idiot.

[KantoSooner]

Here's the official bio:
Jon Meade Huntsman, Jr. (born March 26, 1960) is an American politician and diplomat who served as the 16th Governor of Utah. He also served in the administrations of four United States presidents and is a candidate for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination.[1]

Huntsman worked as a White House staff assistant for Ronald Reagan, and he was appointed by George H.W. Bush as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Commerce and later as United States Ambassador to Singapore from 1992–1993. Huntsman served as Deputy United States Trade Representative under George W. Bush, launching global trade negotiations in Doha, Qatar in 2001 and guiding the accession of China and Taiwan into the World Trade Organization.

Huntsman has also served as CEO of his family's Huntsman Corporation and was elected Governor of Utah in April, 2004 and won re-election in 2008 with nearly 78% of the vote. While governor, he also served as chairman of the Western Governors Association and as a member of the Executive Committee of the National Governors Association. On August 11, 2009, he resigned as governor to accept an appointment as the United States Ambassador to the People's Republic of China.

Other things:

Successful businessman in a harsh field inhabited by ugly, nasty competitors.

Lifelong interest in China that started during his Mormon mission days. Speaks Mandarin ('fluently enough, though with an American accent' accoriding to one Chinese who's heard him speak).

He out Romneys Romney on the business front, ditto for Cain. Has government experience to rival Santorum, Perry, and Bachman. And has a depth of engagement and intellectual accomplishment in foreign affairs to rival Gingrich. He also covers many of Paul's best points with equal devotion (for example: concern over the debt) without becoming rigid.

Not sure he's got the fire in the belly and I'm frankly a bit queasy with the idea of a Mormon president, but this guy has clearly ticked all the boxes and is relatively young at 51. He's for real

[Ton Loc]

So Mormon is what's keeping him down? I don't get it. He has worked with well with presidents from both sides, has experience in the private and public sector, he hasn't sexually assaulted anyone, so what's the deal?

Not to take away from Ron Paul, I'd vote for him over those other guys, but Huntsman seems like a good representitive too.

[KantoSooner]

I don't know if it's the Mormon thing or not. For me, personally, its a factor. Whether the rest of the country shares my bias, i do not know.

[Frozen Sooner]

It's not anti-Mormon bigotry that's holding Huntsman down in the Republican primaries. It's that he doesn't think there's any controversy regarding evolution by natural selection or over global climate change.

[okie52]

It's not anti-Mormon bigotry that's holding Huntsman down in the Republican primaries. It's that he doesn't think there's any controversy regarding evolution by natural selection or over global climate change.

He is a big amnesty advocate and dream act proponent along with being a supporter of crap and trade.

He is pretty sharp but those issues kill him with me.

[okie52]

Immigration
•Huntsman threatened to veto a measure repealing in-state college tuition for the children of illegal immigrants, but the measure didn't pass during his time as governor.
•On the subject of border fences, he has said: "I hate the thought of a fence on the border. As an American, the thought of a fence to some extent repulses me, because it is not consistent with the image that we projected to the rest of the world. But the situation is such today that I don't think we have a choice, and before we begin the conversation of processing 11 or 12 million undocumented workers, we've got to secure the border. There's got to be an alternative rather than sending people back. That's unrealistic."

Energy/Environment
•While governor, Huntsman would not allow hotter levels of nuclear waste in Utah.
•One of his chief goals as governor was to make Utah the premier destination for renewable energy.
•Believes Congress should cap greenhouse-gas pollution.
•Believes in using alternative sources for energy and efficiency.
•In 2007, he signed the Western Climate Initiative in response to the global warming problem. Thus, Utah joined other state governments in reducing production of greenhouse gases.

Read more: Jon Huntsman: Campaign Issues — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/us/government/presidential-campaign-2012-jon-huntsman-issues.html#ixzz1eYBsx0EI

[okie52]

Huntsman’s Flip-Flop Moment
Jun 23, 2011 8:33 PM EDT


Cap and trade used to be cool—now it's radioactive. Howard Kurtz on Jon Huntsman’s novel explanation for his change of heart.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/politics.html

[okie52]

Did Gingrich Walk Into an Immigration Minefield at Debate?



Brace yourself, Newt Gingrich.

The former House speaker entered volatile territory on Tuesday at the GOP presidential debate when he voiced support for allowing long-term illegal immigrants to stay in the country -- a proposal his presidential rivals were quick to characterize as amnesty.

The accusation is potentially troublesome for Gingrich, who has been surging in the polls, and one he’s already seeking to rebut by saying that it’s the only “humane” option.

“The party that says it's the party of the family is going to adopt an immigration policy which destroys families who have been here a quarter century,” said Gingrich, who denied his proposal amounted to amnesty. “I'm prepared to take the heat for saying, let's be humane in enforcing the law without giving them citizenship but by finding a way to create legality so that they are not separated from their families.”

It didn’t take long for Gingrich to start taking heat for his proposals: Both Rep. Michele Bachmann and Mitt Romney both characterized them as amnesty.

“Look, amnesty is a magnet,” Romney said. “When we have had in the past programs that said people who come here illegally will get to stay illegally for the rest of their life, that will only encourage more people to come here illegally. The right course is to say we welcome people who want to come here legally.”


But Gingrich’s support for letting illegal immigrants stay in the country, including support for part of the federal DREAM Act that would grant citizenship to those who serve in the military, is the one moment that could ripple across the primary. Immigration is a highly sensitive issue among conservatives –- Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s defense earlier the campaign of giving in-state tuition to illegal immigrants helped sink his formerly high-flying effort. Gingrich’s defense of his proposal as the “humane” option also echoes Perry’s suggestion that those who opposed the tuition plan “didn’t have a heart,” a comment that alienated many conservatives.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/2012-presidential-campaign/did-gingrich-walk-into-an-immigration-minefield-at-debate--20111122?page=1

[bigfatjerk]

I'm not really against a stance that's for immigration if we simply got rid of all government welfare programs and had replacements in the private sector. A welfare system like we have in this country can't really take care of a big influx of new population. Unlike a lot of countries around the world we can probably handle a big population increase as far as land goes. But economically it doesn't make sense with a welfare program.

[soonercruiser]

Immigration seems to be Okie's "hot button".
Most of the moderates on the forum take frequent issue with those of us with strong beliefs. As we do rant on from time to time.
Yet, there are some hard right stances even I can't take.
Isn't it interesting how the shoes fits differently, on different days?
Hmmmmm...

[KantoSooner]

If you're willing to examine your own positions, beware, you're already too 'liberal' for the jihadi's.


On the other hand, you're displaying self awareness and intellect, so the slings and arrows of those with eyes waaaay too close together is a small cross to bear.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Newt's got the mojo.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Best exchange of the night was when Newt answered Ron Paul's assertion that normal criminal law had worked just fine in the OKC bombing investigation. "After the bombing succeeded, that's kind of the point."

Ron Paul should've said that if we had the Patriot Act back then he still would've been able to do what he did.

Besides what he was stating is that the justice system worked. We got McVeigh, took him to trial, and punished him. We didn't have to treat the American people like criminals.

Now, to Newt, that's not good enough. We have to execute U.S. citizens without a trial and burn the Bill of Rights because the terrorist might just win if we don't.

[KantoSooner]

Ron Paul should've said that if we had the Patriot Act back then he still would've been able to do what he did.

Besides what he was stating is that the justice system worked. We got McVeigh, took him to trial, and punished him. We didn't have to treat the American people like criminals.

Now, to Newt, that's not good enough. We have to execute U.S. citizens without a trial and burn the Bill of Rights because the terrorist might just win if we don't.

I was celebrating the best zinger of the night. If nothing else, my brief history on this board should prove that I'll support individual rights above all else to the point of personal humiliation.

Go in Peace, friend.