Are You Secretly Happy The Big 12 Stayed Together?

[Buckeye Fan]

Your conference is having a great year. 2 Top 5 teams, a great K-State team and WVU coming soon. I think you are better off now than if you went to the Pac-16.

Meanwhile in B1G land...well I'm happy they took Paterno's name off the trophy, that's good. And on the field the conference has been so-so. And with all these coaching changes we'll probably be stuck in neutral for awhile.

Hopefully we'll get Urban Meyer to save the Buckeyes next year.

[BASSooner]

Not really. This conference is as stable as an episode of jersey shore.

[WA. Sooner]

Yes

[olevetonahill]

Aint no secret. Im glad we survived and it appears we have grown a little stronger

[sooneredaco]

So to all you haters (tear down this wall I'm talking to you) Boren really is who we thought he was!!! An awesome leader for this great university, and it seems conference as well!

[olevetonahill]

So to all you haters (tear down this wall I'm talking to you) Boren really is who we thought he was!!! An awesome leader for this great university, and it seems conference as well!

TDTW aint a "Flying Dick Wheel"
Jes sayin

[ouflak]

We've replaced Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas A&M with TCU and West Virginia. And this conference is still set to fall apart at any time, or if the rights get signed over, any time after 6 years.

We have lost stature both athletically and academically and will actually be making less money as a result of the changes to the conference revenue sharing arrangement.

I guess I'm happy we haven't lost our AQ status. Not much else to be happy about really.

[Chuck Bao]

Definitely. I am very happy that the conference stayed together. We obviously have the talent and it would be a sell-out of the athletes, athletes' families and fans to go west coast, south coast or east coast.

[OU Adonis]

No

[delhalew]

I'm not secretive about it. This area deserves a dominant conference. TCU is an upgrade over ATM. Same for WVU over Mizzery. Nebraska is the only real loss we've incurred. Hell, it's not as if the were winning the conference.

[BeaSooner]

I still low-key miss Nebraska. SEC and PAC-10 lost in those deals.

[AlbqSooner]

Actually SEC and PAC-10 got what they wanted; a couple of new whipping posts.

[SoonerMarkVA]

No, not happy about it. We've only postponed the inevitable, IMO, and it seems to me we'll be negotiating from a weakened position. Ultimately may not matter, but I like to strike while the iron's hot. This should have been resolved last year, P-16 if ut had gone, and SEC when they didn't.

But, it is what it is, and the most recent trade of WV for Mizz is, IMO, an uptick at least.

[NYC Poke]

One third of our conference left including two of the conference's most valuable "brands" in Nebraska and A&M. I'm not so sure we "stayed together."

[SoonerLaw09]

I'm only going to be happy if we get back to 12 teams and a CCG, so we can compete with the other major conferences. If we don't, we'll be in danger of becoming Big Least Mk II, flyover country version. Not sure who we would add. Louisville, I guess, tho why everyone's so hot on them I have no idea. They'd be a K-State or Mizzery type team, beat somebody huge every now and then, but never really threatening. Guess since everyone's raiding C-USA and Houston appears to be off the market, we could always ask Tulsa. Because we don't have a shot at the Domers and BYU (yuck anyway), we're kinda stuck with inviting whomever we can get.

[LRoss]

I feel like the B12 has done about as well replacing the departures as could be expected, but still feel like it's been a step backward. That said, I NEVER like the idea of going west, so if those are the two options, I guess I'm ok with it, but not really "happy."

From the OP's B1G perspective, though, I've had the thought lately that any conference save the Big East must suddenly look strong.

My breakdown of the B1G, typically:

Marquee Programs B12 Correlate
Michigan OU
Ohio St Texas

Strong Contenders
Nebraska Ok St
Wisconsin aTm
Michigan St Missouri
Penn St

Mediocre
Iowa K St
Illinois Tech

Doormats
Purdue Baylor
Northwestern Iowa St
Minnesota Kansas
Indiana


Of the 2 traditional B1G names, one of them just got smacked down by the NCAA and lost their iconic coach under shady circumstances. They're not relegated to doormats, but a serious hit in every way. And they've come back a long way, but even Michigan still isn't the power that they have been traditionally.

Of the next tier, we all know what's gone on at PSU, and while we don't know the future of that, we know that it's going to be devastating from a football perspective. All their commits de-committed, right? And obviously their iconic coach is gone . . . ugly from a football perspective.

For the meantime/forseeable future, that leaves some combo of Nebraska, Wisconsin, and M St to run roughshod over the conference. Can you imagine if the B12 was going to be a dogfight between aTm, OSU, and Missouri? (Of course I know that two of them are gone, but I think TCU and WVU fit in just as well in the "strong contenders" category -- actually maybe stronger if anything.) What a travesty that would be. Only twice in B12 history has either OU or Texas not played in the B12CG, and of course that's gone but OU's still there for this year in the de-facto game (assuming form holds, of course). So for a conference that already has 4 perennial doormats, two of their upper-tier teams are taking serious blows outside of the normal ebb and flow of teams being up and down. Looking at the short/medium term future from a B1G perspective, yeah the B12 might look pretty strong after all!

[LRoss]

Well that didn't format well. . . .

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Is tosu applying for membership into the B12 now?

[tator]

I'm happy that OU is still playing on Saturdays. As long as that continues, I'm fine.

[sooneron]

I'm only going to be happy if we get back to 12 teams and a CCG, so we can compete with the other major conferences. If we don't, we'll be in danger of becoming Big Least Mk II, flyover country version. Not sure who we would add. Louisville, I guess, tho why everyone's so hot on them I have no idea. They'd be a K-State or Mizzery type team, beat somebody huge every now and then, but never really threatening. Guess since everyone's raiding C-USA and Houston appears to be off the market, we could always ask Tulsa. Because we don't have a shot at the Domers and BYU (yuck anyway), we're kinda stuck with inviting whomever we can get.

This is silly. With teams like OU, ut, osu and now WV/TCU (which was the best FB brand(s) in the Big lEast) we will never be mentioned in the same breath as them. Should we add two? I agree with that. I'd take Louisville. I wouldn't mind getting into recruiting in Ohio, if not just for the OLinemen. So, Cincy could help there. I would be willing to take a decent to solid athletic program from here on out. I almost no longer care about the academics portion of the equation. This is a new era where the almighty dollar rules. Saying that, there is something nice about keeping things as regional-centric as possible. Going to the PAC 12 never agreed with my gut.

[JiminyChristmas]

Nebraska belongs in the Marquee Program category.

I agree that we need a conference in the middle of the country, but what we have now is weaker, both athletically and academically, than what we had before. Hands down.

[LRoss]

You could make a strong case for Nebraska as marquee. But they've been 7-7 ('02), 5-6 ('04), and 5-7 ('07) since their last conference championship ('99!) and they've finished out of the AP top 25 5 times since they've finished in the top 10. IMO, that puts them clearly below the level of OU and Texas in the B12. And if they weren't marquee in the B12 but they are in the B1G, than that's even worse for the B1G!

Again, a strong case could be made, and a couple great seasons and I could put them back. But for the meantime, I would say they're below the top tier.

[diegosooner]

No. I wanted OU in the Pacific Conference.

[OULenexaman]

should just call it the Johnson & Johnson conference with all these band aids stuck on it......it sucks.

[EatLeadCommie]

Not really, as I think the underlying problems are still there. However, I am happy with all the additions except for WVU, who I think is too far out of the region and a complete disaster academically.

[marfacowboy]

I've always been vocal about my preference to keep the conference together and of my confidence in the University's leadership. I never thought it make a lick of sense to go elsewhere.

[soonerboomer93]

Not really, as I think the underlying problems are still there. However, I am happy with all the additions except for WVU, who I think is too far out of the region and a complete disaster academically.

I really don't get why people from Oklahoma and Texas complain about how far WVU is. Correct, it is pretty far out of the region, however, that affects WVU much more then the other schools. They'll be traveling to this area 4/5 times a year for football, plus once like 9 times year for each other sport. We'll be going there once every other year for football, and once a year for other sports.

Oh, but they're over doubling their tv revenue so that doesn't hurt.

[stoopified]

no

[ouflak]

I really don't get why people from Oklahoma and Texas complain about how far WVU is. I think that those people who wanted the Big XII to stay together were hoping it would grow to be something super-regional with Arkansas, A&M,... pretty much the entire old cast plus perhaps New Mexico and/or TCU/Houston,... some teams along those lines.

This is clearly no longer a 'regional' conference now. And with all of the flirtation with BYU, it's obvious the leadership of this conference doesn't care one bit that it stays such. As you said, the distances aren't that big of a deal until you a significant percentage of your teams scattered across the landscape.

[Tear Down This Wall]

No.

For as many years as we have been in a conference with Baylor and Texas Tech, no. And, now, add TCU and West Virginia to the list. As long as we continue in a conference with Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, and West Virginia, no.

The only people happy about this are:
(1) people short-sighted enough to believe there's some sort of Sooner Network deal out there that will rival the Longhorn Network failure (this is likely our own Dumb and Dumber, Boren and Castiglione), and
(2) people who fear being in a more competitive conference.

In short, there are Sooner fans who see the light and would aim higher. Our leaders, though, are the anti-Teddy Roosevelt: They speak loudly, but carry a small stick.

[BeaSooner]

Nebraska belongs in the Marquee Program category.



This.

[agoo758]

I am happy, and not secretly either.

[EatLeadCommie]

I really don't get why people from Oklahoma and Texas complain about how far WVU is. Correct, it is pretty far out of the region, however, that affects WVU much more then the other schools. They'll be traveling to this area 4/5 times a year for football, plus once like 9 times year for each other sport. We'll be going there once every other year for football, and once a year for other sports.

Oh, but they're over doubling their tv revenue so that doesn't hurt.

Well since I was for the Pac 16, it might not make sense that I complain about geography, but with the addition of TCU, it seemed like we were going to keep it fairly regional. I guess looking back on it, Louisville or Cinci were the only other options. Both are about as far as WVU. Perhaps in a couple years if we add those two schools, the addition of WVU will be more in line with the overall footprint of the Big XII.

[soonervegas]

If the option was going the the Pac 12 with just OSU (or)

Staying here....

I am glad we stayed.

Now if we could have gotten the Pag 16 done...with UT and Tech. I would want that more than staying put.

[SoonerLaw09]

This is silly. With teams like OU, ut, osu and now WV/TCU (which was the best FB brand(s) in the Big lEast) we will never be mentioned in the same breath as them. Should we add two? I agree with that. I'd take Louisville. I wouldn't mind getting into recruiting in Ohio, if not just for the OLinemen. So, Cincy could help there. I would be willing to take a decent to solid athletic program from here on out. I almost no longer care about the academics portion of the equation. This is a new era where the almighty dollar rules. Saying that, there is something nice about keeping things as regional-centric as possible. Going to the PAC 12 never agreed with my gut.

You make valid points. Going to the PAC-**** never agreed with my loins either. If pressed I think we fit better with the SEC or B1G. However, now that we are who we thought we were, I'd agree with raiding Ohio. Cincy is a good choice. I wonder if we could get Miami OH or Ohio U to join? It would improve their profile, get them more $$$ and a recruiting edge, and we'd get an up-and-comer. The downside is those Wednesday-Thursday games they play every year, we'd have to fix that.

[SoonerLaw09]

This is silly. With teams like OU, ut, osu and now WV/TCU (which was the best FB brand(s) in the Big lEast) we will never be mentioned in the same breath as them. Should we add two? I agree with that. I'd take Louisville. I wouldn't mind getting into recruiting in Ohio, if not just for the OLinemen. So, Cincy could help there. I would be willing to take a decent to solid athletic program from here on out. I almost no longer care about the academics portion of the equation. This is a new era where the almighty dollar rules. Saying that, there is something nice about keeping things as regional-centric as possible. Going to the PAC 12 never agreed with my gut.

And I meant Big Least Mk II in the sense of being 10 teams without a CCG, when everyone else will have it. We would, in that case, have to continue to schedule major nonconference games to make sure we were in the mix. Which I like. But we'd even have to step it up beyond what we're already at. Fun, but dangerous.

[LASooner]

No.

And we won't really see the effects for a few years

[SoonerLaw09]

You could make a strong case for Nebraska as marquee. But they've been 7-7 ('02), 5-6 ('04), and 5-7 ('07) since their last conference championship ('99!) and they've finished out of the AP top 25 5 times since they've finished in the top 10. IMO, that puts them clearly below the level of OU and Texas in the B12. And if they weren't marquee in the B12 but they are in the B1G, than that's even worse for the B1G!

Again, a strong case could be made, and a couple great seasons and I could put them back. But for the meantime, I would say they're below the top tier.

Sorry dude but I gotta call BS on that. The "N" might stand for nowldedge, but the Huskers have the same level of traditional power that we do, and they've done it more recently.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm not secretly happy; I'm overtly happy. I am thrilled beyond words.

[Ton Loc]

Do we retain our auto BCS bid? Then yes.

[soonerboomer93]

I think that those people who wanted the Big XII to stay together were hoping it would grow to be something super-regional with Arkansas, A&M,... pretty much the entire old cast plus perhaps New Mexico and/or TCU/Houston,... some teams along those lines.

This is clearly no longer a 'regional' conference now. And with all of the flirtation with BYU, it's obvious the leadership of this conference doesn't care one bit that it stay such. As you said, the distances aren't that big of a deal until you a significant percentage of your teams scattered across the landscape.

What mid-major in the region has shown it's ready to move up and play with the AQ conferences?

That's the root of the whole issue, who is ready to move up. TCU was already scheduled for the move up.


Now, are some teams in this region going to move to an AQ, apparently so, but that's merely a case of the SS big Least throwing some **** at the wall and seeing what sticks.

[UberSooner]

I'm happy we stayed put but that doesn't mean I'm happy with the state of the conference. Pac was never realistic in my mind simply because of the costs associated with shipping all our teams, over that much territory. I don't honestly think the added revenue would have justified that additional expense. I'm probably in the minority in believing football would have taken a recruiting hit. OU's major selling point to Texas recruits has been, "you can play for a national championship and your folks can realistically make every home and texas away game", if they can afford the gas. I don't think we would have landed anymore cali recruits, maybe lost some.

Having said that, TCU and WV, for whatever they may bring, do not equal the loss of aTm and Mizzu in all sports. We are a weaker conference now than 4 years ago and the prospects for ever being that strong again are not good. I guess i'm more resigned to the state of things than anything else.

[LASooner]

Huskers have the same level of traditional power that we do, and they've done it more recently.

Done what more recently? Last time OU played them, they lost. They haven't won a conference championship since 99, they haven't played for a national title since 2001, what exactly have they done more recently except, move?

[SoonerMom2]

So to all you haters (tear down this wall I'm talking to you) Boren really is who we thought he was!!! An awesome leader for this great university, and it seems conference as well!

Looks like he has systematically been getting what he wanted all along! I think #1 was to rid of Beebee and before the Big 12 is finished, they will be back to 12 or even more. Any time you can get the rest of the conference to vote against Texas, it is a win. I liked the idea of going to the PAC 12 but only the CA part but then we lived in So Cal for over four years so that had a lot to do with that. In the end, it is better we have a conference in the middle of the country.

[ouflak]

Looks like he has systematically been getting what he wanted all along!

To be in a conference with a better academic reputation? Then I guess he's done a bang up job! We've lost 4 AAU universities in the last 2 years and gained 1 mediocre university and .... well ... West Virginia.

Glad you got what you wanted Boren! I'm sure amongst those circles of academia, WE WILL SHINE!


In the end, it is better we have a conference in the middle of the country.

I'm fairly certain that West Virginia is not considered 'middle of the country'.

[8timechamps]

I'm not secretly happy, I'm publicly happy.

Right now, I think one could argue that we are the best football conference in the country. Even if you wanted to argue that the SEC is the best, then you'd have to list us as 1a in the rankings. Even with the loss of A&M and Mizzou, the addition of WVU and TCU will keep the power of the conference strong.


And for those that aren't happy, just wait, things will change again.

[ouflak]

I'm not secretly happy, I'm publicly happy.

Right now, I think one could argue that we are the best football conference in the country. Even if you wanted to argue that the SEC is the best, then you'd have to list us as 1a in the rankings. Even with the loss of A&M and Mizzou, the addition of WVU and TCU will keep the power of the conference strong.

It's hard to see how TCU and WVU will keep the power of the conference the same as Nebraska, Colorado, A&M and Missouri. Guess we'll all find out how such a thing might be possible soon enough.

[8timechamps]

It's hard to see how TCU and WVU will keep the power of the conference the same as Nebraska, Colorado, A&M and Missouri. Guess we'll all find out how such a thing might be possible soon enough.

I'm only referring to the present. CU is horrible, and A&M is the usual fraud. Missouri is a decent team, and while I think Nebraska is decent, I think they are overrated. TCU knocked off Boise (and is ranked) and WVU is on the fringes of being ranked, and will continue to improve with Holgorsen. Historically, Nebraska was the biggest loss, but right now, I really don't miss them. In time, I may think otherwise though....but, I don't think things will stay the same anyway.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COiIC3A0ROM

Cue Al Green

[silverwheels]

If there is a long term future for this conference, I don't like it unless we can get back to 12 or even 14. But then again, our options for those 2-4 teams are not exactly overwhelming. I'm anxious to see the new SEC payouts once they re-do their TV contracts. The Big 12 lost several major markets/fanbases and now the only "big" markets in the conference are in Texas. But ESPN and FOX got what they wanted and the conference stayed together, and they don't really have to shell out any decent amount of money for what amounts to Texas and a bunch of small markets.

[8timechamps]

If there is a long term future for this conference, I don't like it unless we can get back to 12 or even 14. But then again, our options for those 2-4 teams are not exactly overwhelming. I'm anxious to see the new SEC payouts once they re-do their TV contracts. The Big 12 lost several major markets/fanbases and now the only "big" markets in the conference are in Texas. But ESPN and FOX got what they wanted and the conference stayed together, and they don't really have to shell out any decent amount of money for what amounts to Texas and a bunch of small markets.

It could be argued that losing the St. Louis market (whatever share Mizzou represented) could have been offset by gaining some of the East Coast market that WVU carries. However, I think the Big XII lost in terms of TV sets in the Houston market, by losing A&M.

[soonercoop1]

No...

[soonerboomer93]

It's hard to see how TCU and WVU will keep the power of the conference the same as Nebraska, Colorado, A&M and Missouri. Guess we'll all find out how such a thing might be possible soon enough.

What's the big deal about A&M?

[soonerboomer93]

It could be argued that losing the St. Louis market (whatever share Mizzou represented) could have been offset by gaining some of the East Coast market that WVU carries. However, I think the Big XII lost in terms of TV sets in the Houston market, by losing A&M.

There are a fair amount of A&M fans here, but really, UT is still the major team in this market.

[BeaSooner]

What's the big deal about A&M?

They have milk men as cheerleaders and buried their dog by the stadium....eh, no. Actually, the only thing really cool about them is they conduct a TAPS ceremony after dark the 1st Tuesday of every month to honor those students who have passed. It would give you goose-pimples.

[soonerboomer93]

It's hard to see how TCU and WVU will keep the power of the conference the same as Nebraska, Colorado, A&M and Missouri. Guess we'll all find out how such a thing might be possible soon enough.

TCU and WVU both have more BCS appearances then Mizzou and A&M

Oh yeah, Kansas has more then Mizzou.

[the-rover]

No, the Big XII did not stay together

[8timechamps]

There are a fair amount of A&M fans here, but really, UT is still the major team in this market.

How about LSU? Seems like there would be equal amounts.

[soonerboomer93]

A bit more because of the influx after Katrina but no, UT is #1, then A&M then a variety.

[FaninAma]

The Big12-2-1+2 Conference is awesome. OU fans can now take road trips to the following cosmopolitan destinations:

Lubbock, Tx.
Ames, Ia.
Manhattan, Ks.
Morgantown, Wv.
Waco, Tx.
Stillwater, Ok.

How could any fan not be thrilled about travelling to any of these beautiful, fun-filled destinations?

Academics you say? Who cares that we just watched 2/3 of the Big 12's AAU institutions leave.

Just as long as we don't leave Okie State behind. Who cares that both state universities will now become mediocre in athletics and academics......right?

I fully expect Kansas to bail in the next 2 years. West Vir
ginia will stay until the ACC or SEC offers. Texas will eventually go independent or join the Big 1G. But by gawd we'll still be sticking up for our hillbilly cousins in Stillwater. Isn't that, afterall, in OU's best interest?

[soonerboomer93]

And if that happens OU will pick up the phone and make the call. Boren may have to suck it up and play nice, but he'll make a certain call.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

And if that happens OU will pick up the phone and make the call. Boren may have to suck it up and play nice, but he'll make a certain call.

Not following... to whom? B1G or SEC? I would think both would be in play at that juncture.

[soonerboomer93]

There is no reason to be in the B1G. It's a downgrade (football competition wise). If we get into the AAU, then we might get into the B1G. The only advantage there is, bases on current programs we'd probably be the best team (and honestly, by a long shot).

Silve would cum in his pants if OU called.

[sooneron]

Didn't Nebbish just lose or are they in the process of losing their AAU status?
Like I stated, this is no longer about academics, it's about cash and remaining viable. Yes, we lost a good overall program when we lost Atm. The were top ten in the President's (used to be Sear's don't know who sponsors it now) trophy. WVU has crap academics, but good bball and football. Those are the two that count most.

[allanace16]

Bugeaters lost their AAU status.

A&M is a bigger loss across all sports than most people are giving them credit for. Probably the biggest loss out of the defectors, though it's obviously between them and Nebbish. I actually think A&M will be a bigtime competitor in the SEC in every non football sport.

As for being happy the conference stayed together, I give this an incomplete grade. We all know this isn't gonna work in the long term. Hopefully the recruiting rule changes in the SEC will clear up what I think is a lot of Boren's issue with us going there (oversigning) and now that any of the realistic options are going to be an academic upgrade, that'll help too. But who knows, we could end up anywhere in the next 5-6 years. I have no worries that the OU brand will stay strong, even in the conference's current configuration, at least until the next round of defections. I kinda wish we had gotten it over with, but I actually think when the next round of stuff goes down OU will be looked at as a great "final piece" to complete some one of these conferences at 16.

[Buckeye Fan]

Didn't Nebbish just lose or are they in the process of losing their AAU status?
Like I stated, this is no longer about academics, it's about cash and remaining viable.

They already lost their AAU status and 2 B1G schools voted against them (Michigan and Wisconsin I think). welcome to your new family...

I agree it's about cash and for the B1G I think it was about the cash from a championship game.

But I don't think all these conference changes will matter much, the teams are more important. What conference is Boise State or TCU or Utah (was) in? They came out of nowhere by winning games and then playing on tv, it didn't matter what their conference was.