This is why we need several teams to lose.

[LASooner]

This is how OU is perceived.

http://i41.tinypic.com/ifoknl.jpg

[hornswaggled]

Those people in New Mexico and Wyoming are outta line.

[SoonerinSouthlake]

Where is the statistic that shows how geographically biased perception matters at all in the actual BCS ranking.

We need to win....get in the game...then win the game.

Then all of those blue red and orange areas can bite me

[LRoss]

1) Sportsnation isn't a part of the BCS formula.

2) Nonetheless, the results would likely take a significant shift if OU knocks out OSU.

[yermom]

if we beat OSU that **** changes though

[agoo758]

Beat Diet Oklahoma, and there will be much more support.

[yermom]

i just hope neither of us lose before then :O

[OU_Sooners75]

LASooner....

You are really worried about what the fans around the nation think?

If you did that at the first of the season, it would have looked similar as to what it does now.

It is regional bias.

[SoonerFanInAustin]

It will be interesting to see how voters will perceive us by beating OSU. It will boil down to choosing a team that finished 2nd in their division, which means they didn't win their Conf or a the Conf champion of what people say is the toughest Conf in college football this yr.

Plus: Alabama will only have 1 win against a team that is ranked. they could have played 6 teams with a losing record.

OU - Could have 4 beaten teams in the final rankings (OSU, K-St, Fla St if they win out and Tulsa if they beat Hou). Heck the winner of the Baylor/Tex game may end up ranked. :) We may have 3 or 4 teams with losing record, but barely. Kansas is the only guarantee right now.

The voters could be tired of our showings in Championship games, even though that shouldn't have any factor.

It will be interesting though.

[BoulderSooner79]

Hey, where is all the luv from our conference brethren? You know BIG12 BIG12 BIG12 !?

:eagerness:

[Breadburner]

This chart means nothing.....

[BoulderSooner79]

This chart means nothing.....

Actually, it does show folks from Oklahoma and Arkansas are homers. And it might imply Texans hate us :P

[oumartin]

Boise and Stanford are one loss teams that actually loss to better teams than Tech, Where's the love for them?
I'd say look at all the one loss teams and look at their worst loss and go from there.

[sooner59]

Honestly, as of this minute...why would anybody think OU should be #3 over Bama or Oregon? If OU wins out, yeah. Right now? No.

[btb916]

Who gives a damn...the only true concern is winning the rest of the games on our schedule. If we make it to the big one, great. If not, well, we'll still have a shot at a BCS bowl. Not too shabby, even if this was supposed to be a special year.

[delhalew]

This thread...pffft.

[LASooner]

Oh right, I forgot, straight thinking robots vote on the official polls. My point is, that this is a perception that is reflected in the polls and is only going to get worse if teams above OU don't lose.

[LRoss]

If there's any relation at all, the perception is a reflection of the polls, not the other way around.

And it WILL change -- at least somewhat -- if OU wins out, whether or not Alabama's able to take care of Georgia Southern and Auburn. I'm for 'Bama and Oregon and Clemson and Stanford and Virginia Tech and Arkansas to take additional losses as well, because I do think it both strengthens OU's chances and helps to shut off the whining and cries of "unfair!" that so often accompany/overshadow the whole BCS deal. But the points still stand -- the chart IS meaningless, and most all of the experts agree that OU winning out most likely = MNC game regardless of Oregon/Bammer/etc.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Meh. Alabama lost to a team that is simply better than them while Oklahoma only lost to a team that was better than them on that particular day and Texas Tech has proven that their past few games.

[SoonerAtKU]

If Alabama wins out, they will have only beaten one team with a pulse. Penn State is and was anemic. Who else have they played and beaten?

OU effectively beat Florida State three times, as the injuries and other aftereffects of that game clearly spilled over into their next two. The Kansas State game may be OU's most impressive performance so far, blowing out a team that only has one other loss by one point, i believe. Until OSU, however. That's the true test.

Oregon beat Stanford, who was certainly a legitimate team. They have a chance against USC to get another quality win, even though SC can't be ranked.

[primetime43]

No way Bama gets in with that schedule. They get hurt playing Georgia Southern this week. You can't have a team play for the title that didn't even win their division. The team we need to worry about is Oregon because they most likely will be the PAC 12 champs. It would be nice if the Domers or SC got a win for us. How fitting would it be if we jump Oregon even if they don't lose. Karma from '06.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

You can't have a team play for the title that didn't even win their division.

Nebraska 2001 says hi.

[Herr Scholz]

If Alabama wins out, they will have only beaten one team with a pulse. Penn State is and was anemic. Who else have they played and beaten?

Isn't Arkansas ranked #6?

[delhalew]

Nebraska 2001 says hi.

Folks remember what a disaster that was. Voters are not psyched about setting that up again.

[SoonerAtKU]

Isn't Arkansas ranked #6?

Yes, that is the one to which I refer. The inference is that Penn State does not have a pulse. Good job.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Honestly, I wouldn't vote for us right now either in that pole. I want to see how our offense does without Broyles. I also want to see us show up for 3 straight weeks and play without just going through the motions. If we do that, then I think we've got the best resume of the 1 loss teams.

[NYC Poke]

So if LSU loses to Arky, Alabama loses to Auburn, and Oregon loses to USC, will ESPN be calling for the winner of Bedlam to rematch for the MNC? Seems only fair.

[The Maestro]

This is a poll of folks that sit in their Mom's basement eating Cheetos while watching Sports Nation around lunchtime.

We'll be real sexy to voters on the evening of 12/3-morning of 12/4 if we win in Stillwater. That is ALL that matters.

[mightysooner]

If Alabama wins out, they will have only beaten one team with a pulse. Penn State is and was anemic. Who else have they played and beaten?



Arkansas has a pulse.

[SoonerAtKU]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Do two people on this thing really not understand that just because I mention Penn State in another sentence doesn't mean they're the team I refer to in the first? Especially when I use the word anemic to describe PSU?

Anemic in this case refers to being weak or powerless, in case you missed it.

It's Arkansas who has the pulse. They're talented. PSU is not a good team, and neither is anyone else on Alabama's schedule outside of LSU. Is this my fault for being unclear?

[delhalew]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Do two people on this thing really not understand that just because I mention Penn State in another sentence doesn't mean they're the team I refer to in the first? Especially when I use the word anemic to describe PSU?

Anemic in this case refers to being weak or powerless, in case you missed it.

It's Arkansas who has the pulse. They're talented. PSU is not a good team, and neither is anyone else on Alabama's schedule outside of LSU. Is this my fault for being unclear?

It's not your fault. You were clear.

[Seamus]

Arkansas has a pulse.


Yes, that is the one to which I refer. The inference is that Penn State does not have a pulse. Good job.

... And the password is ... ADD ...

[htownsooner7]

Oh right, I forgot, straight thinking robots vote on the official polls. My point is, that this is a perception that is reflected in the polls and is only going to get worse if teams above OU don't lose.

This is a solid thread because perception will affect (and be representative) of how people vote.

[rekamrettuB]

Isn't Arkansas ranked #6?

Stay out of this Texas...it's no longer 2008*.

[Herr Scholz]

Yes, that is the one to which I refer. The inference is that Penn State does not have a pulse. Good job.
So, OU, Oregon and Bama would've all beaten exactly one team each in the top 10 at the end of the season (assuming everyone wins out). But only one team would've lost to a 4-TD dog at home, right? OU would have two wins over ranked teams: OSU and KSU. UT, Baylor and FSU will all either be unranked or barely ranked. Not a strong SOS.

And if Arknasas beats LSU, you have no chance.

[VA Sooner]

A lot can happen in the next few weeks... hope that Oregon surely underestimates a USC team that would like to play the spoiler here.

And here's hoping Les Miles chokes on the grass when playing Arky.... high-powered team... but I'm worried that won't help our cause as much.

[Herr Scholz]

And here's hoping Les Miles chokes on the grass when playing Arky.... high-powered team... but I'm worried that won't help our cause as much.
That would kill your hopes I think. Don't hope for that.

[delhalew]

That would kill your hopes I think. Don't hope for that.

Hope for that if you would prefer we play Bama rather than LSU, is what the stupid whorn meant to say.

[oudavid1]

Where is the statistic that shows how geographically biased perception matters at all in the actual BCS ranking.

We need to win....get in the game...then win the game.

Then all of those blue red and orange areas can bite me


Boise and Stanford are one loss teams that actually loss to better teams than Tech, Where's the love for them?
I'd say look at all the one loss teams and look at their worst loss and go from there.

What OUMartin said.

[The Maestro]

We don't want Arkansas to win, period. They are the only team that has to play at Tuscaloosa and at Baton Rouge. If they go 1-1 in that span, they will jump us, plain and simple. Our best bet is for LSU either to win out and we play them with scenarios of passing Oregon and Bama since they lost to LSU already, or LSU can go ahead and lose to Georgia in the SEC title game.

Oh, and Oregon isn't going to lose to USC. Robert Woods may not even play Saturday.

[The Maestro]

What OUMartin said.

Only factoring in who you lose to is about the dumbest concept ever. If we win at OSU that means road wins at OSU, Baylor, FSU and KSU with a neutral win over Texas. To just ignore those is a simpleton approach. The WHOLE season counts! Yes, we have the ugliest loss, but by virtue of the rest of our games it almost proves that night was pure craziness and not the only thing our season should be judged on.

[SoonerAtKU]

So, OU, Oregon and Bama would've all beaten exactly one team each in the top 10 at the end of the season (assuming everyone wins out). But only one team would've lost to a 4-TD dog at home, right? OU would have two wins over ranked teams: OSU and KSU. UT, Baylor and FSU will all either be unranked or barely ranked. Not a strong SOS.

KSU is currently 13 in the BCS, with two cupcakes left to play. ;) I think they make it into the top 10.

FSU is already ranked and I don't see them losing another game. Unless Clemson drops their next two, they won't be playing a championship game, so they'll likely finish in the top 15-17 before the bowls.

Don't forget that Tulsa is playing Houston in 2 weeks, and that's likely for the berth in the CONFUSA title game. Also don't forget that one or two of the computer rankings takes into account ranking at the time of the game, so we even get credit for beating a vastly overrated #11 Texas. Thanks!

I'm not really worried about whether UT will be ranked. Congrats on being bowl eligible this year. Big turnaround.

[SoonerAtKU]

That would kill your hopes I think. Don't hope for that.

I don't necessarily agree. If that's the only change, and assuming an OU win over OSU, your BCS rankings probably look something like this:

Alabama
Oklahoma
Oregon
Arkansas
LSU
Clemson
OSU
Etc.

Don't underestimate the impact that beating the #2 team on the road in the last week of the season will have on both types of poll. I can see Arkansas maybe jumping Oregon on the strength of the win, but not OU after the boost of OSU.

[Zin]

I think OU will be in a good place with the computers, it is the human polls that I think keeps them out if they win out even with a road win against OSU.

The thing is, if you changed the question in that poll too, "After LSU, which team should be ranked 2nd in the BCS?" I don't think it would look much different. The only exception would be Oklahoma would be whatever color OSU is.

[The Maestro]

I think OU will be in a good place with the computers, it is the human polls that I think keeps them out if they win out even with a road win against OSU.

The thing is, if you changed the question in that poll too, "After LSU, which team should be ranked 2nd in the BCS?" I don't think it would look much different. The only exception would be Oklahoma would be whatever color OSU is.

An ugly Pac 12 title game is Friday night. Alabama won't be playing. The last GameDay is in Stillwater. The last game of the season is in Stillwater. The last Herbie and Musburger Prime Time game is in Stillwater. If we beat the undefeated second ranked team on the road we will get human love, since it is so fickle in the football world. We just need THAT poll THAT night to get us a bump and since Bama and Oregon will be watching the game with losses to LSU on their resume it will be in the minds of the voters.

[primetime43]

Only factoring in who you lose to is about the dumbest concept ever. If we win at OSU that means road wins at OSU, Baylor, FSU and KSU with a neutral win over Texas. To just ignore those is a simpleton approach. The WHOLE season counts! Yes, we have the ugliest loss, but by virtue of the rest of our games it almost proves that night was pure craziness and not the only thing our season should be judged on.

Well said. Remember a few years ago Florida lost to Ole Miss in the Swamp with the "Chosen One" and LSU lost to Kentucky and still got in the Big dance. Sounds crazy but I think the more Tech loses the more it looks like a fluke.

[LASooner]

Don't underestimate the impact that beating the #2 team on the road in the last week of the season will have on both types of poll.

In 2007 OU beat the #1 team in the country on the last week of the season and it did nothing except cause people to say we "exposed Missouri" and we went to the Fiesta Bowl

[primetime43]

In 2007 OU beat the #1 team in the country on the last week of the season and it did nothing except cause people to say we "exposed Missouri" and we went to the Fiesta Bowl

Don't you know an Sec team with 2 losses is > Big 12 with 2 losses! LSU didn't lose in regulation that year:D

[LVokie]

So, OU, Oregon and Bama would've all beaten exactly one team each in the top 10 at the end of the season (assuming everyone wins out). But only one team would've lost to a 4-TD dog at home, right? OU would have two wins over ranked teams: OSU and KSU. UT, Baylor and FSU will all either be unranked or barely ranked. Not a strong SOS.

And if Arknasas beats LSU, you have no chance.

How exactly do you figure? To begin with, let's assume that OU wins out (since the argument's pointless otherwise). If A&M beats Kansas (REALLY tough to imagine that) and Texas, they have a good shot to be ranked in the BCS at 7-5; the computers like them almost as much as Auburn (better in some cases), and Auburn's ranked despite hardly showing up at all in the polls. If they DON'T beat Texas, then one of the following three things happens: (1) Texas also beats K-State and Baylor and probably rises into the top 15; (2) Texas beats either Baylor or K-State but loses to the other, in which case they're still around #25 in the BCS; or (3) Texas loses to both K-State and Baylor. If they lose to Baylor, then Baylor will also likely get back into the BCS rankings (presumably dropping out after losing to OU) given how badly Tech is playing at the moment; if Texas loses to K-State but beats Baylor, then K-State (barring an upset to Iowa State at home) will quite possibly be BCS Top 10 by the end of the year. Thus, to sum up so far, the worst case scenario (barring major upsets) would be Texas beating K-State, losing to A&M, then beating Baylor, which would give K-State ranked perhaps #18-20, Texas ranked #23-25, and A&M perhaps #25. Barring major upsets, there's simply no way that OU beats less than three ranked teams this year, and (if things work out optimally) they could quite conceivably beat as many as six (if FSU keeps rolling and Tulsa beats Houston at home) with two in the top 10.

This is all immaterial, anyway, because SOS is not merely done by looking at the numbers to the left of the names of your opponents, but also by looking to the numbers on the right. Simply put, the combined W-L record of OU's opponents (and THEIR opponents) beats the crap out of Oregon's, Arkansas', or Alabama's. Not strong? It KILLS theirs in the computers, even before OU plays OSU. While we're at it, funny that you harp on the supposed lack of ranked teams on our schedule yet ignore that of Alabama (four now, two if they beat Auburn assuming Penn State loses the next two weeks as I expect them to), Arkansas (four now, three if Auburn loses, although if Auburn wins and Arky beats LSU then Arky obviously gets the nod barring an upset in the CCG), or Oregon (two or three, depending on if you count USC since the BCS doesn't). That is, it WOULD be funny if it weren't plainly just a product of you hating the fact that OU has as good as shot as anybody to go to the title game for the fifth time under Stoops while your boys sit at home after playing in the Who-Gives-A-S*** bowl in late December.

EDIT - I know I'm leaving out the SEC CCG game as a source for another ranked team, but it's beside the point. A conference champ from the SEC West is GOING to go to the title game; the argument is about whether or not another SEC West team would get the other spot based on SOS, and the answer is quite simply NO. Oregon's just SOL if we win out unless an SEC East team wins the conference. (If we lose to Baylor or somehow choke against Iowa State, they're naturally back in play. Otherwise ... enjoy the Rose Bowl, fellas.)

[LVokie]

In 2007 OU beat the #1 team in the country on the last week of the season and it did nothing except cause people to say we "exposed Missouri" and we went to the Fiesta Bowl

Which is a big part of the reason why I simply don't recognize a title for that year. However, don't you see that the result from that year actually works in our favor? LSU got in because the voters could not stand putting in a team that didn't win its own conference (Georgia or Kansas) or that got beaten handily by LSU earlier in the year even though they were ranked higher and beat a higher-ranked opponent by a wider margin than LSU did that week (Virginia Tech). If the same arguments still apply, then whichever SEC West teams don't win the division are eliminated from the discussion, as is Oregon if LSU wins out. (Even if they don't, we'll jump Oregon if we win out since we will have beaten OSU and Baylor on the road while Oregon only has USC and Oregon State at home followed by a mediocre PAC-12 South team for the conference title; the computers will favor us substantially, since we're basically tied now even after their "statement" game, we'll split the votes pretty evenly, and it will be enough.)

[oudavid1]

Only factoring in who you lose to is about the dumbest concept ever. If we win at OSU that means road wins at OSU, Baylor, FSU and KSU with a neutral win over Texas. To just ignore those is a simpleton approach. The WHOLE season counts! Yes, we have the ugliest loss, but by virtue of the rest of our games it almost proves that night was pure craziness and not the only thing our season should be judged on.

I see what you mean. But objectively, I still think Oregon and Arkansas have played better football.

[jumperstop]

I see what you mean. But objectively, I still think Oregon and Arkansas have played better football.

Is this the same Arkansas that should have lost to aTm if they didn't choke it away? How good is aTm?

[cvsooner]

Which is a big part of the reason why I simply don't recognize a title for that year. However, don't you see that the result from that year actually works in our favor? LSU got in because the voters could not stand putting in a team that didn't win its own conference (Georgia or Kansas) or that got beaten handily by LSU earlier in the year even though they were ranked higher and beat a higher-ranked opponent by a wider margin than LSU did that week (Virginia Tech). If the same arguments still apply, then whichever SEC West teams don't win the division are eliminated from the discussion, as is Oregon if LSU wins out. (Even if they don't, we'll jump Oregon if we win out since we will have beaten OSU and Baylor on the road while Oregon only has USC and Oregon State at home followed by a mediocre PAC-12 South team for the conference title; the computers will favor us substantially, since we're basically tied now even after their "statement" game, we'll split the votes pretty evenly, and it will be enough.)Didn't we also have two losses in '07? Colorado and Tech, both on the road?

[rekamrettuB]

In 2007 OU beat the #1 team in the country on the last week of the season and it did nothing except cause people to say we "exposed Missouri" and we went to the Fiesta Bowl

I think OU was number 9 at that time going into the game. If OU were number 5 or better, I think they would have moved up to #2 that year prior to LSU. UGA would have moved up had they won their division/SEC title game.

[jumperstop]

I think OU was number 9 at that time going into the game. If OU were number 5 or better, I think they would have moved up to #2 that year prior to LSU. UGA would have moved up had they won their division/SEC title game.
What did we end up getting to after that game?

[NYC Poke]

Strangely, y'all are in sort of a better position than we are at this point, in that you're pretty much in a BCS bowl no matter what happens on 12/3 (assuming we both win out up to then). We may need y'all to get to the MNC to get a BCS bid if we lose.

[rekamrettuB]

What did we end up getting to after that game?

Did we end up #3? I don't recall. I do recall the 9 tho as we were in San Antone for the game.

[jumperstop]

Strangely, y'all are in sort of a better position than we are at this point, in that you're pretty much in a BCS bowl no matter what happens on 12/3 (assuming we both win out up to then). We may need y'all to get to the MNC to get a BCS bid if we lose.
Ehh I think we both go to a BCS bowl no matter what. Lets say worst case senario you guys get thumped, you'd drop to 10 at worst. KSU would be right behind you guys somewhere so they won't go in front of you. The BCS would be more than happy to take 2 Big 12 teams, especially if both are inthe top ten.

[jumperstop]

Did we end up #3? I don't recall. I do recall the 9 tho as we were in San Antone for the game.
I was thinking 4, but I guess I'll look it up...

Edit: 4th BCS, 3rd AP, 3rd Coaches after we beat Mizzou....
http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings/_/year/2007/week/15

We jumped 5 spots that week but so did LSU....So it's more than possible that we can get 5 to 2.

[NYC Poke]

Ehh I think we both go to a BCS bowl no matter what. Lets say worst case senario you guys get thumped, you'd drop to 10 at worst. KSU would be right behind you guys somewhere so they won't go in front of you. The BCS would be more than happy to take 2 Big 12 teams, especially if both are inthe top ten.

I hope you're right, I just hate leaving things twisting in the fickle winds of the BCS. Remember who I root for. I'm conditioned to expect disappointment.

[jumperstop]

I hope you're right, I just hate leaving things twisting in the fickle winds of the BCS. Remember who I root for. I'm conditioned to expect disappointment.

Ohh no worries, we'll make sure there is plenty of disappointment...but I still think we are both going to get into a BCS bowl.

[rekamrettuB]

I was thinking 4, but I guess I'll look it up...

Edit: 4th BCS, 3rd AP, 3rd Coaches after we beat Mizzou....
http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings/_/year/2007/week/15

We jumped 5 spots that week but so did LSU....So it's more than possible that we can get 5 to 2.

Yep. If it happens that OU beats the Pokes it will be fun to see all the talk of rematch vs OU which, unfortunately, will include the last 3 NC games.

[rekamrettuB]

I hope you're right, I just hate leaving things twisting in the fickle winds of the BCS. Remember who I root for. I'm conditioned to expect disappointment.

You guys go 11-1 and you probably end up in the top 4-6 range and would go somewhere. Fresh face with high powered offense will work in your favor. Heck the Orange took KU a few years back.

[jumperstop]

You guys go 11-1 and you probably end up in the top 4-6 range and would go somewhere. Fresh face with high powered offense will work in your favor. Heck the Orange took KU a few years back.
Yeah the Big 12 normally travels pretty well, and I think the fan base would be excited to go to a BCS bowl even if they were just kicked out the NCG hunt..

[NYC Poke]

Yeah the Big 12 normally travels pretty well, and I think the fan base would be excited to go to a BCS bowl even if they were just kicked out the NCG hunt..

If I'd been told at the beginning of the season we'd make a BCS bowl I'd have been ecstatic. Obviously I will be disappointed if we don't get to the MNC game, but I will be very happy with the season overall.

[yermom]

If things go the right way, the pokes should a lock for the fiesta

If we can't get to #2, I guess they could have problems

[LVokie]

Didn't we also have two losses in '07? Colorado and Tech, both on the road?

Sure did. I don't have much problem with us not going, but what exactly did LSU prove that last week that we didn't?

#9 OU - beat #1 Missouri 38-17
#7 LSU - beat #14 Tennessee 21-14 (Tennessee leads 14-13 until giving up a pick-6 and 2-point conv with 10 min to play)

Not to mention we kicked the tar out of OSU the previous week while LSU was losing at home to an Arkansas team that finished the season 8-5. Now, if one wanted to keep LSU above us since hey were two spots ahead and the Big 12 was arguably down (the South certainly was, relative to normal), then fine. But here's something else:

#6 Va Tech - beat #11 Boston College 30-16 (tied at 16 heading into the 4th, then Va Tech pulls away)

So Va Tech was ranked higher heading into the week, beat a higher-ranked opponent more decisively, and got jumped ... yeah, that makes a lot of sense. More than any other team, I think they got jacked. However, Kansas at #5 and Georgia at #4 had plenty to complain about as well. Okay, so I can see bringing Kansas down a bit since their resume was rather pitiful, but rocketing LSU over an idle Georgia from three spots down based on a 7-point win over a mid-ranked team? REALLY? WHY? Let me be clear: if OSU gets walloped by ISU and plummets to 10th or so in the polls and we're somehow three spots below an idle Alabama heading into CCG week, I will have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with Alabama staying above us if we only beat OSU by 7. None at all. That makes perfect sense. Shafting Georgia and Virginia Tech like that, though ... no. Screw every voter who arrived at that conclusion. That title game simply did not happen. (There was a game, sure, right in LSU's backyard, but it was an absolute mockery. A sham. NOBODY won that season.)