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Trophy Husband
11/11/2011, 05:38 PM
This from the American Standard.

The Blog
SEIU Now Collecting Dues from Medicaid Payments Meant for Disabled Kids
10:09 AM, Nov 11, 2011 • By MARK HEMINGWAY
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There are a number of bizarre schemes unions have used to coerce dues out of public funds. For a long time, I thought the most appalling example was a Michigan scheme where the United Auto Workers and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees held a sham vote-by-mail organizing election that "unionized" Michigan's home daycare providers largely against their will. This allowed them to collect union dues from state chid care subsidies.

However, it turns out there are even worse union scams happening in Michigan right now. Joel Gehrke at the Washington Examiner reports:

If you're a parent who accepts Medicaid payments from the State of Michigan to help support your mentally-disabled adult children, you qualify as a state employee for the purposes of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU). They can now claim and receive a portion of your Medicaid in the form of union dues.

Robert and Patricia Haynes live in Michigan with their two adult children, who have cerebral palsy. The state government provides the family with insurance through Medicaid, but also treats them as caregivers. For the SEIU, this makes them public employees and thus members of the union, which receives $30 out of the family's monthly Medicaid subsidy. The Michigan Quality Community Care Council (MQC3) deducts union dues on behalf of SEIU.

The SEIU takes $6 million a year that would otherwise go to helping disabled children. Unions seem to wonder why they are under attack these days, but you read reports like this and it's not exactly a mystery why more and more Americans are fed up.

soonercruiser
11/11/2011, 10:01 PM
SEIU - really nice people.
:uncomfortableness:

Trophy Husband
11/12/2011, 09:32 AM
Notice how a lot of the pro union, liberal crowd on this board are staying away from this?

soonercoop1
11/12/2011, 10:56 AM
Any union in the public sector should be illegal...even FDR thought so...

Trophy Husband
11/14/2011, 11:55 AM
Where the hell are all lefties?

Ton Loc
11/14/2011, 01:15 PM
There was a time for unions - that time has passed.

diverdog
11/14/2011, 01:46 PM
Well I do not know who is worse....the SEIU for siphoning off dues from medicare benefits or the Republican politicians who advocate throwing the poor off Medicaid. Either way it looks like the poor or sick are going to get screwed by both sides.

Tulsa_Fireman
11/14/2011, 01:51 PM
I'm sure they left because it's like debating a rabid dog.

In fact, there IS no debate. Regardless of what valid points are presented, regardless of how others have said that these tactics ARE beyond the pale and should be addressed, regardless of how even handed the tone of the conversation has been or was, this isn't a debate. This is a sad case of leveled fingers demanding others to think your way which is a disappointing result of today's partisanship. And as is apparent, when either A) others don't conform or B) disengage from the conversation entirely, it's chalked up in the ol' win column for truth, justice, conservatism, and the American way. "Where the hell are all the lefties?" They "left". They obviously don't see the point of vigorous debate and good, clean, civil discourse when the other side of the table isn't there to debate and discuss, but to conquer by all means, slash and burn, and leave nothing but ashes, embers and good ol' flag waving conservatism.

It's fallacious, myopic, and foolish. No wonder our founders formed the Electoral College.

Midtowner
11/14/2011, 02:02 PM
Hey, kudos for crediting the author of your cut/paste, but its premise is awfully silly, i.e., because one union in one state is doing something which is very apparently shady, then they all must be shady. It's classic cherry picking. Also, you don't really know what the SEIU has done on behalf of these people. You might assume that it's nothing and that this is just the SEIU gaming the system. Are they providing benefits for these parents? Better insurance options? Representation against Medicaid authorities when things don't go as planned? Liability insurance? I don't know. Do you? Or rather, does your cut/paste blog?

Tulsa_Fireman
11/14/2011, 02:36 PM
Any union in the public sector should be illegal...even FDR thought so...

Because FDR and Coolidge both considered labor strikes to be dangerously inappropriate in the public sector due to the direct impact to public safety, not because of some implied defiance against unionization in the public sector as a basic premise. The freedoms of speech and association don't disappear because someone paves streets or takes your water bill payments. Hence why there's volumes of legislation at the state level that define specifically what is and is not allowed for organized public sector employees. A dang good example is the Fire and Police Arbitration Act from right here in our beautiful state of Oklahoma. Work stoppages and/or slowdowns as a whole are defined as outright illegal, but allows workers to collectively bargain. Allows arbitration to review disputes but gives the employer the ultimate authority to present any and all changes to a vote of the people, giving the people and their elected representation the final, inarguable, indisputable say in public sector matters.

Sounds like a GOOD thing to me. Eliminating entirely even the suggestion of any sort of organized work shenanigans AND establishing a means for elected representatives to give the PEOPLE the final, ultimate say? Not bad at all.

And with that, no more "FDR DIDN'T EVEN WANT IT" bullcrap because we know exactly why he didn't want it and it wasn't for the reasons you're selling.

49r
11/14/2011, 03:32 PM
Achievement Unlocked!

"Master Baiter" ( 2/154) - Engaging others in senseless"political-ish" debate by cutting/pasting poorly written blogs in a thread you started.

soonercoop1
11/14/2011, 07:32 PM
Because FDR and Coolidge both considered labor strikes to be dangerously inappropriate in the public sector due to the direct impact to public safety, not because of some implied defiance against unionization in the public sector as a basic premise. The freedoms of speech and association don't disappear because someone paves streets or takes your water bill payments. Hence why there's volumes of legislation at the state level that define specifically what is and is not allowed for organized public sector employees. A dang good example is the Fire and Police Arbitration Act from right here in our beautiful state of Oklahoma. Work stoppages and/or slowdowns as a whole are defined as outright illegal, but allows workers to collectively bargain. Allows arbitration to review disputes but gives the employer the ultimate authority to present any and all changes to a vote of the people, giving the people and their elected representation the final, inarguable, indisputable say in public sector matters.

Sounds like a GOOD thing to me. Eliminating entirely even the suggestion of any sort of organized work shenanigans AND establishing a means for elected representatives to give the PEOPLE the final, ultimate say? Not bad at all.

And with that, no more "FDR DIDN'T EVEN WANT IT" bullcrap because we know exactly why he didn't want it and it wasn't for the reasons you're selling.

Public unions have no place in this society and are illegal...pretty simple...just the fact that you can elect the same person you will extort for an overabundance of benefits that must be paid through citizens taxes are enough of a reason...we certainly need firemen and officers and they will always be paid a fair wage...some of what I've seen does not qualify as fair....

soonercruiser
11/14/2011, 10:13 PM
Achievement Unlocked!

"Master Baiter" ( 2/154) - Engaging others in senseless"political-ish" debate by cutting/pasting poorly written blogs in a thread you started.

Didn't see that one in the Bible!
Which version are you using?

soonercruiser
11/14/2011, 10:19 PM
Well I do not know who is worse....the SEIU for siphoning off dues from medicare benefits or the Republican politicians who advocate throwing the poor off Medicaid. Either way it looks like the poor or sick are going to get screwed by both sides.

Diver,
Of course the second part of your statement is simply ridiculous, or a cut and paste from an SEIU or Peloski commercial.
Did you see them throw that old lady off the cliff??? Really??

And of course cutting $500 Billion from Medicare in Obamacare was really good for the poor; wasn't it?
And, all the doctors that are now opting out of treating Medicare patients is really does a lot of good for the poor.
And the HHS now admitting that there are going to be rationing panels manned by bureaucrats, that is good too.
And, HHS now admitting that they reallay can't to long-term care is OK with you too I guess.
Why do you hate the elederly and poor Diver??

diverdog
11/14/2011, 11:27 PM
Diver,
Of course the second part of your statement is simply ridiculous, or a cut and paste from an SEIU or Peloski commercial.
Did you see them throw that old lady off the cliff??? Really??

And of course cutting $500 Billion from Medicare in Obamacare was really good for the poor; wasn't it?
And, all the doctors that are now opting out of treating Medicare patients is really does a lot of good for the poor.
And the HHS now admitting that there are going to be rationing panels manned by bureaucrats, that is good too.
And, HHS now admitting that they reallay can't to long-term care is OK with you too I guess.
Why do you hate the elederly and poor Diver??

cruiser they already ration care and have done if for years.

40 of 47 Republicans in the Senate voted to privatize Medicare and Medicaid. Across the country Republicans in many states are gutting Medicaid.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 09:54 AM
Oh woe is me "privatizing" medicare, how dare we put the power back into the hands of the patients instead of the hands of bureaucrats and politicians.
I find it so ironic, when we discuss abortion the left shouts "leave the decision in the hands of the women, not the fed". Yet when we discuss healthcare, they shout " leave the decisions in the hands of the politicians and bureaucrats."

Make up your damn minds already.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 09:55 AM
why the hell do you liberals think the feds know better what to do with our money than we do? Can you please explain that to me?

Midtowner
11/15/2011, 10:00 AM
why the hell do you liberals think the feds know better what to do with our money than we do? Can you please explain that to me?

Be more specific in your gritching. Platitudes and pablum have no place here. It's this poor argumentative/debate style which makes it so easy to pick out your plagiarism.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 10:02 AM
cruiser they already ration care and have done if for years.

40 of 47 Republicans in the Senate voted to privatize Medicare and Medicaid. Across the country Republicans in many states are gutting Medicaid.

That is an ignorant argument, that's like saying, "well we already tax people, so what's wrong with doubling their taxes?"

diverdog
11/15/2011, 03:31 PM
Oh woe is me "privatizing" medicare, how dare we put the power back into the hands of the patients instead of the hands of bureaucrats and politicians.
I find it so ironic, when we discuss abortion the left shouts "leave the decision in the hands of the women, not the fed". Yet when we discuss healthcare, they shout " leave the decisions in the hands of the politicians and bureaucrats."

Make up your damn minds already.

I am not pro abortion. So chew on that for a while.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 03:34 PM
Be more specific in your gritching. Platitudes and pablum have no place here. It's this poor argumentative/debate style which makes it so easy to pick out your plagiarism.

answer the question or GTFO! Is that specific enough for you?

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 03:35 PM
I am not pro abortion. So chew on that for a while.

are you pro choice?

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 03:36 PM
midtown, how many pounds are in a ton?

diverdog
11/15/2011, 03:41 PM
That is an ignorant argument, that's like saying, "well we already tax people, so what's wrong with doubling their taxes?"

Lets see.... I am going to guess you are one of the 50% of the public that pays no income tax.

diverdog
11/15/2011, 03:44 PM
are you pro choice?

No. I love children.

Chew on this one I am also a long time member of the NRA and the previous national president is a friend of mine. Will be having lunch with him on Thursday.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 03:49 PM
Hey, kudos for crediting the author of your cut/paste, but its premise is awfully silly, i.e., because one union in one state is doing something which is very apparently shady, then they all must be shady. It's classic cherry picking. Also, you don't really know what the SEIU has done on behalf of these people. You might assume that it's nothing and that this is just the SEIU gaming the system. Are they providing benefits for these parents? Better insurance options? Representation against Medicaid authorities when things don't go as planned? Liability insurance? I don't know. Do you? Or rather, does your cut/paste blog?

"Very apparently shady"?? :D

It's either very apparent that it's shady, or it's apparently shady. It can not be very apparently shady.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 03:50 PM
Lets see.... I am going to guess you are one of the 50% of the public that pays no income tax.

Guess again sport.

Midtowner
11/15/2011, 03:52 PM
answer the question or GTFO! Is that specific enough for you?

Again with the lack of critical thinking skills.... your question, if I'm even responding to the right one is a blatantly false analogy and isn't even a very clear question at all. You were gritching about healthcare rationing, something which insurance companies, medicare and medicaid already do to doubling everyone's taxes. The premise in your question is wrong. If your objection is a financial one, there is a very strong likelihood that the Affordable Care Act will lower your cost for healthcare since everyone will now be buying into the system, or at least it'll slow the growth of premiums.

And if you're complaining about healthcare rationing happening on a wider scale, do you actually think that for-profit healthcare companies, which are wildly profitable, are not already rationing healthcare and denying claims on a pretty broad scale? Aside from mere speculation, what makes you think it'd be worse under the new rules?

Educate yourself on the subject before making a bunch of wild accusations and assumptions. Try it.

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/features/index.html

Tell us which of the new rules you think are going to be bad and how they will be disastrous.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 03:52 PM
No. I love children.

Chew on this one I am also a long time member of the NRA and the previous national president is a friend of mine. Will be having lunch with him on Thursday.

A lie on top of a lie, nice.

diverdog
11/15/2011, 03:55 PM
Guess again sport.

Ha. Send me your taxes. I look at taxes all day long and my experience is the vast majority of Americans pay little or no taxes and I am guessing you are one of those folks. The odds are in my favor I am right.

Midtowner
11/15/2011, 03:56 PM
"Very apparently shady"?? :D

It's either very apparent that it's shady, or it's apparently shady. It can not be very apparently shady.

Propaganda blogs are not exactly known for being fair to both sides. I admit that with the information provided in your cut/paste, what the SEIU is doing is apparently pretty shady. I have some reasonable doubt, however, as to there not being two sides to this story. The SEIU has not responded to the story, nor has anyone outside of the far right wing blogosphere.

Midtowner
11/15/2011, 03:57 PM
Ha. Send me your taxes. I look at taxes all day long and my experience is the vast majority of Americans pay little or no taxes and I am guessing you are one of those folks. The odds are in my favor I am right.

He has 4 kids, so the likelihood that he pays taxes is fairly low.

diverdog
11/15/2011, 03:59 PM
A lie on top of a lie, nice.

I live in Dover Delaware. Google John Sigler and see where he lives.

I was raised Irish Catholic and have always been pro life.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 04:17 PM
Again with the lack of critical thinking skills.... your question, if I'm even responding to the right one is a blatantly false analogy and isn't even a very clear question at all.

Uh, no you're not answering the right question, so apparently you lack the critical thinking skills you demand of others.


And if you're complaining about healthcare rationing happening on a wider scale,
Actually, no I wasn't complaining about that.


Educate yourself on the subject before making a bunch of wild accusations and assumptions. Try it.


Ironic, you tell me not to make assumptions and accusations, yet you are posting responses to arguments I have not yet made.


Again, tell me why you think the federal government knows better what to do with your money than you?
Tell me why you think people are entitled to free healthcare. Please, Mr. Critical Thinker, tell me where that right, entitlement or what ever the hell you want to call it, is written.
Until you can provide anything other than "it sounds like a swell idea" to back your belief that we all have the right to free healthcare, you're just pissing in the wind.

diverdog
11/15/2011, 04:19 PM
He has 4 kids, so the likelihood that he pays taxes is fairly low.

Yep. He is probably writing off his interest expense on his mortgage so his actual tax rate is probably between zero and nine percent on the income tax side.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 04:19 PM
I live in Dover Delaware. Google John Sigler and see where he lives.

I was raised Irish Catholic and have always been pro life.

get over it, i have no beef with you.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 04:22 PM
Yep. He is probably writing off his interest expense on his mortgage so his actual tax reat is probably between zero and nine percent on the income tax side.

again a baseless assumption and accusation. If what you say is true, then I should be furious that the evil rich aren't having to pay their fair share, even though I pay NOTHING. Now explain to me how someone who pays NO taxes has any right to bitch about what others who actually pay taxes, pay?

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 04:23 PM
tax reat

what the hell is a tax reat?

diverdog
11/15/2011, 05:16 PM
what the hell is a tax reat?

Sorry. It should be rate. Typo on iphone.

Trophy Husband
11/15/2011, 05:39 PM
again a baseless assumption and accusation. If what you say is true, then I should be furious that the evil rich aren't having to pay their fair share, even though I pay NOTHING. Now explain to me how someone who pays NO taxes has any right to bitch about what others who actually pay taxes, pay?

well?

soonercruiser
11/15/2011, 11:50 PM
No. I love children.

Chew on this one I am also a long time member of the NRA and the previous national president is a friend of mine. Will be having lunch with him on Thursday.

I will have to testify on Diver's behalf (from my OUI days), that he does fall on the conservative side of the thought tree sometimes.

Just don't get close enogh to let him show you his gun; or close enough that he could bite you. :love-struck:

http://members.cox.net/franklipsinic/Other/DiverDog.jpg

Trophy Husband
11/16/2011, 12:09 PM
I will have to testify on Diver's behalf (from my OUI days), that he does fall on the conservative side of the thought tree sometimes.

Just don't get close enogh to let him show you his gun; or close enough that he could bite you. :love-struck:

http://members.cox.net/franklipsinic/Other/DiverDog.jpg

I have no beef with him.

diverdog
11/16/2011, 06:09 PM
I will have to testify on Diver's behalf (from my OUI days), that he does fall on the conservative side of the thought tree sometimes.

Just don't get close enogh to let him show you his gun; or close enough that he could bite you. :love-struck:

http://members.cox.net/franklipsinic/Other/DiverDog.jpg

Love the pic.

I would say I am a redneck liberal of sorts.

soonercruiser
11/16/2011, 09:29 PM
Love the pic.

I would say I am a redneck liberal of sorts.

OR, occasionally, "Out of sorts"!
:D