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soonercruiser
11/10/2011, 07:40 PM
So, kiss another 20,000 jobs good-bye for now!
What the he11 is the matter with these morons? They already conducted their "impact" studies!
Did they discover another Snail Darter in Kansas?

Obama has his administartion push the Solyndra loan, wasting $528 Million taxpayer dollars.
Then, he is too much of a coward to make the decision on the XL Pipeline that would create some 20,000 jobs for years to come!
Or, worst, just says he welcomes the delay - PAST THE ELECTION??????
:uncomfortableness:

Obama doesn't give a dang about creating jobs!
He just wants more of our tax dollars to spread around to his "green" friends!


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/obama-administration-delays-keystone-xl-pipeline-12-18-months-punts-past-election/
Nov 10, 2011 3:50pm
Obama Administration Delays Keystone XL Pipeline 12-18 Months, Punts Past Election

The Obama administration announced today that it would study alternate routes for the controversial Keystone XL pipeline, kicking a politically contentious issue down the road past the 2012 election.

The State Department, which conducts the impact study of the proposed project, said today that it will take an additional 12-18 months to consider alternate routes in Nebraska, where environmental activists worry a giant underground aquifer might become contaminated if the pipeline passes over it.

President Obama issued a statement welcoming the move.
“I support the State Department’s announcement today regarding the need to seek additional information about the Keystone XL Pipeline proposal,” he said. “Because this permit decision could affect the health and safety of the American people as well as the environment, and because a number of concerns have been raised through a public process, we should take the time to ensure that all questions are properly addressed and all the potential impacts are properly understood.”

The State Department denied the move was politically motivated.
“This decision is based on the process that we have been going through. This is not a political decision,” Assistant Secretary for Oceans and International Environmental and Scientific Affairs Dr Kerri-Ann Jones told reporters.

The $7 billion project by TransCanada, years in the making, would bring oil from the tar sands in Canada to refineries in the U.S. south. Proponents say it is key to securing more stable sources of energy.

The move avoids a politically difficult decision that was expected before the end of the year. Opponents, namely environmental advocates, warned of the carbon emissions and possible contamination risks. Supporters, including labor unions, said it would create jobs and provide secure streams of energy.

The American Petroleum Institute quickly convened a conference call with journalists, even before the official State Department announcement, declaring that any delay or denial of the project would “damage America’s energy and national security.”

House Speaker John Boehner also joined in the criticism, citing the economic impact of a delay.

“More than 20,000 new American jobs have just been sacrificed in the name of political expediency. By punting on this project, the president has made clear that campaign politics are driving U.S. policy decisions – at the expense of American jobs,” he said in a statement.

StoopTroup
11/10/2011, 09:38 PM
You seem to still have a lot of unanswered unresolved issues and you call him a Coward.

REDREX
11/10/2011, 09:49 PM
It is a stupid decision---Its not like the states it will go through do not already have pipelines---------When gas prices stay up thank Barack

StoopTroup
11/10/2011, 09:55 PM
^ you have a much better approach. Nice post.

soonercruiser
11/10/2011, 11:03 PM
Thanks Red!
That's the type of discussion I was looking for. Or, an opposing view.

But, NOT a post from someone with his own "issues" - with personal attacks.

soonercruiser
11/10/2011, 11:34 PM
Some liberal environmentalist rants...

Admitting that it's not just a delay....


Big news: We won. You won.Not completely. The president didn’t outright reject the pipeline permit. My particular fantasy–that he would invite the 1253 people arrested on his doorstep in August inside the gates for a victory picnic by the vegetable garden–didn’t materialize.
But a few minutes ago the president sent the pipeline back to the State Department for a thorough re-review, which most analysts are saying will effectively kill the project.
http://www.tarsandsaction.org/

Environmentalist had threatened to abandon Obama over this????



Keystone XL pipeline decision delayed until after 2012 election
With the State Department announcement Thursday that it would study alternate routes for the $7-billion pipeline, the administration sought to calm the environmentalist movement that has mobilized against the proposal — no small matter for Obama given activists' threats that they might abandon his reelection campaign.
The decision also exposed the Democratic administration to the same criticism the White House has leveled at congressional Republicans regarding deficit reduction: delaying a tough call in hopes that the politics will be better after next November's election.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-keystone-20111111,0,1732793.story

Makes you wonder what was the result of the report on the original path? Or, doesn't it politically matter?
AND - there already is an existing Canadian pipeline!!!????


The Huff and Puff Post
A State Department decision to reroute the pipeline would require an environmental review of the new section, a process that would likely push a final decision on the pipeline past the 2012 election.

The heavily contested project has become a political trap for President Barack Obama, who risks angering environmental supporters if he approves the pipeline and could face criticism from labor and business groups for thwarting jobs if he rejects it. Some liberal donors have threatened to cut off funds to Obama's reelection campaign if he approves the pipeline....

The Keystone XL pipeline would double the capacity of an existing pipeline operated by TransCanada, and supporters say it could significantly reduce U.S. dependence on Middle Eastern oil while providing thousands of jobs.

TransCanada has said any delay in the approval process could cost it millions of dollars and keep thousands of people of from getting jobs.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/state-dept-keystone-xl-pipeline-route_n_1084115.html



New York Times...
“This decision just puts off a green light for the tar sands by a year,” Mr. Hurowitz said in an e-mailed statement. “That’s why I’m a little dismayed at suggestions that this kick-the-can decision means environmentalists will enthusiastically back President Obama in 2012. Is the price of an environmentalist’s vote a year’s delay on environmental catastrophe? Excuse me, no.” Oil industry officials, some unions and the Canadian government said they were disappointed because the action delays what they call the economic benefits of the $7 billion project.

Jack N. Gerard, president of the American Petroleum Institute, said of the president’s decision, “This is all about politics and keeping a radical constituency, opposed to any and all oil and gas development, in the president’s camp in 2012. Whether it will help the president retain his job is unclear but it will cost thousands of shovel-ready opportunities for American workers.”

Andrew MacDougall, a spokesman for Stephen Harper, the Canadian prime minister, said, “While we are disappointed with the delay, we remain hopeful the project will be decided on its merits and eventually approved.”

TransCanada said that it would work with the State Department to find a new route, but warned that delay could kill the project, and with it tens of thousands of construction and related jobs and billions of dollars in tax revenues.

“If Keystone XL dies,” said Russell K. Girling, the company’s chief executive, “Americans will still wake up the next morning and continue to import 10 million barrels of oil from repressive nations without the benefit of thousands of jobs and long-term energy security.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/us/politics/administration-to-delay-pipeline-decision-past-12-election.html

But, it does look like even the Repubican Gov of Kansas, and Kansans themselves wanted a relook at the path of the pipeline.
Which raises the question....why weren't they consulted in the beginning???
Maybe a arrrogant State Department????
The NYTimes article goes on.....


Public officials and citizens in Nebraska have been vocal about the proposed pipeline route, not only because of fears about the Sand Hills region but because it will cross the Ogallala Aquifer, a critical source of drinking water for the Great Plains. Gov. Dave Heineman of Nebraska, a Republican, has been pushing for the pipeline to be rerouted and recently called a special legislative session to focus on Keystone XL.

“I am pleased that Nebraskans have been heard,” Mr. Heineman said in a telephone interview. “We’ve tried to make it very clear that we support the pipeline but oppose the route over the Ogallala Aquifer,” Mr. Heineman said, adding he was not expecting the State Department’s decision. “I hope we can find a common-sense solution, change the route and begin construction of the pipeline.”

Ton Loc
11/11/2011, 09:50 AM
That the governor of Nebraska wants it re-routed is good enough for me. States rights and all....
Environmentalists cause delays, but they always lose - In the end money wins out.
Besides, whoever wins the election gets this pushed through, Obama included.

marfacowboy
11/11/2011, 09:58 AM
I wish he would have denied its permit. The delay is no doubt political, since it's a lightning rod issue. Obama hasn't acted decisively on many issues. That's why so many on the left are upset with him. But frankly, cast of clowns on the right is laughable. It's clear Perry isn't ready. Obama would destroy that man in a debate. Romney? He apparently stands for nothing. And then there's Gingrich, the family values guy that's been married, what, three times? And don't even get me started on Mr. 999. What a joke.
Frankly, they're all bad. But at least Obama is qualified for the job and doesn't have mental lapses like Aunt Bethany in Christmas Vacation.

cleller
11/11/2011, 10:51 AM
In August 2011 the State Department found that the present route would be the most economically sensible, and pose a low risk of environmental impact.

That will never be good enough reason for the environmentalists, but sounds like a done deal. The idea that the project gets nixed, or sent back for do-overs seems impossibly low. Purely a delay tactic. Now it will be at least 15 months until things get rolling again. Not much "buck stops here" in Obama.

okie52
11/11/2011, 11:40 AM
I wish he would have denied its permit. The delay is no doubt political, since it's a lightning rod issue. Obama hasn't acted decisively on many issues. That's why so many on the left are upset with him. But frankly, cast of clowns on the right is laughable. It's clear Perry isn't ready. Obama would destroy that man in a debate. Romney? He apparently stands for nothing. And then there's Gingrich, the family values guy that's been married, what, three times? And don't even get me started on Mr. 999. What a joke.
Frankly, they're all bad. But at least Obama is qualified for the job and doesn't have mental lapses like Aunt Bethany in Christmas Vacation.

As long as you are good with 57 states.

TheHumanAlphabet
11/11/2011, 12:14 PM
This was a punt decision clear and simple. He can love on the Green's and still be for the pipeline, just needs a little re-route. Trouble is, this requires new regulatory approval, new right of ways negated and new design work. Effectively pushes it way past the next election to let someone else deal with it. O'bummer couldn't find his way out of a wet paper bag if his life depended on it. This man is no leader and will never be one.

Midtowner
11/11/2011, 02:00 PM
I wish he would have denied its permit. The delay is no doubt political, since it's a lightning rod issue. Obama hasn't acted decisively on many issues. That's why so many on the left are upset with him. But frankly, cast of clowns on the right is laughable. It's clear Perry isn't ready. Obama would destroy that man in a debate. Romney? He apparently stands for nothing. And then there's Gingrich, the family values guy that's been married, what, three times? And don't even get me started on Mr. 999. What a joke.
Frankly, they're all bad. But at least Obama is qualified for the job and doesn't have mental lapses like Aunt Bethany in Christmas Vacation.

+1

And this decision is good politics. He was in a lose-lose situation.

soonercoop1
11/11/2011, 02:46 PM
I wish he would have denied its permit. The delay is no doubt political, since it's a lightning rod issue. Obama hasn't acted decisively on many issues. That's why so many on the left are upset with him. But frankly, cast of clowns on the right is laughable. It's clear Perry isn't ready. Obama would destroy that man in a debate. Romney? He apparently stands for nothing. And then there's Gingrich, the family values guy that's been married, what, three times? And don't even get me started on Mr. 999. What a joke.
Frankly, they're all bad. But at least Obama is qualified for the job and doesn't have mental lapses like Aunt Bethany in Christmas Vacation.

Obama is qualified for the job? Seriously you must be kidding, not paid much attention in the last 3 years, or just hate America...

REDREX
11/11/2011, 08:03 PM
I wish he would have denied its permit. The delay is no doubt political, since it's a lightning rod issue. Obama hasn't acted decisively on many issues. That's why so many on the left are upset with him. But frankly, cast of clowns on the right is laughable. It's clear Perry isn't ready. Obama would destroy that man in a debate. Romney? He apparently stands for nothing. And then there's Gingrich, the family values guy that's been married, what, three times? And don't even get me started on Mr. 999. What a joke.
Frankly, they're all bad. But at least Obama is qualified for the job and doesn't have mental lapses like Aunt Bethany in Christmas Vacation.-----Obama is qualified--- For what ?---Being a community organizer?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
11/11/2011, 08:14 PM
... Obama is qualified for the job and doesn't have mental lapses....Oooo marfac, you're so happenin'!!!

StoopTroup
11/11/2011, 08:27 PM
Thanks Red!
That's the type of discussion I was looking for. Or, an opposing view.

But, NOT a post from someone with his own "issues" - with personal attacks.

Coward.

soonercruiser
11/11/2011, 08:52 PM
I wish he would have denied its permit. The delay is no doubt political, since it's a lightning rod issue. Obama hasn't acted decisively on many issues. That's why so many on the left are upset with him. But frankly, cast of clowns on the right is laughable. It's clear Perry isn't ready. Obama would destroy that man in a debate. Romney? He apparently stands for nothing. And then there's Gingrich, the family values guy that's been married, what, three times? And don't even get me started on Mr. 999. What a joke.
Frankly, they're all bad. But at least Obama is qualified for the job and doesn't have mental lapses like Aunt Bethany in Christmas Vacation.

Sorry Cowboy!
You last sentence disqualifies you as a credible opinion.
Are you talking about the same guy that can't do a speech or town hall without a teleprompter????
:hopelessness:

soonercruiser
11/11/2011, 08:55 PM
This was a punt decision clear and simple. He can love on the Green's and still be for the pipeline, just needs a little re-route. Trouble is, this requires new regulatory approval, new right of ways negated and new design work. Effectively pushes it way past the next election to let someone else deal with it. O'bummer couldn't find his way out of a wet paper bag if his life depended on it. This man is no leader and will never be one.

Actually, not completely accurate.
There were alternative pipeline paths that were already evaluated according to an OPUBCO article in the Daily Oklahoman tody. (below)
If that is true......no big delay is necessary. Unless, the major decision maker is A COWARD!
I may just be too naive to think that a real leader would ACT NOW!

So far, I can't fin a word-for-word article link, despite the article being the banner headline on today's Oklahoman front page.
Obama Administration puts oil pipeline decision on hold
Washington Bureau
by Chris Casteel ("Today's Paper" link, lower right)
http://newsok.com/

Quotes from the article include....

Kerri-Ann Jones, an assistant secretary of state, told reporters that the decision was made by the State Department and that the Whitehouse did not try to influence it.(how convenient...to deflect criticism.....unlike the Solyndra energy loan scandal)

The article goes on to page 4A, where there is a map of the pipelines, existing and proposed.
If the map is accurate, there is NO NEW PATH through Kansas.....just a doubling of the capacity of the existing pipeline. (see map)
the headline of the page 4A continuation is "Lankford to seek go-ahead on southern leg"


In a statement, TransCanada said several alternate routes had been studied, including one that would have by-passed the "Sand Hills" and aquafer, and others that would have reduced the miles of pipeline crossing through the Sand Hills. That research should be the basis of the new review and help expedite the process, the company said.

Sooooo....there is no real justification for a delay for further research on the behalf of Kansas.

Lankford is quoted as making perfectly valid points on approving parts of the project!


U.S. Rep James Lankford, R-OKCity, called the decision "an obvious political punt", and said he would press the State Department to permit the project, but start with the southern leg that goes from Cushing to the Gulf Coast

Cushing, a major oil supply hub that is already connected to Canada by the first (existing) Keystone pipeline, is close to the maximum capacity at times this year.

Lankford said building the southern leg of the pipeline could resolve the supply issues at Cushing while the Nebraska route was further studied.

Now this makes common sense!
Will the Obama administration use common sense???
Don't hold your breath. :uncomfortableness:

cleller
11/12/2011, 08:10 AM
+1

And this decision is good politics. He was in a lose-lose situation.

So this means you don't think our economy needs this pipeline, the oil, and the jobs it supplies, and never will? Or just that it will help his re-election, so it is now permissible?
Obama would have excoriated Bush for such a tactic.

We Need Change! Now! Bom-de-bomp-bomp-ba!

soonerhubs
11/12/2011, 08:46 AM
When does putting off the creation of 20,000 jobs make good politics?

cleller
11/12/2011, 09:16 AM
Or how about this one:

We Can't Wait!

Has that been taken already?

pphilfran
11/12/2011, 11:57 AM
+1

And this decision is good politics. He was in a lose-lose situation.

Good politics...bad in any other business...

He is not being paid to get reelected...he is getting paid to make wise decisions in a reasonable time frame....

diverdog
11/12/2011, 05:33 PM
Good politics...bad in any other business...

He is not being paid to get reelected...he is getting paid to make wise decisions in a reasonable time frame....

Phil:

I do not know much about this project other than I read there is already an over capacity of pipeline right now. Do you know if this true? The other thing I read is that farmers and land owners are upset because they can use eminent domain to acquire the land. Is that true?

REDREX
11/12/2011, 07:33 PM
Phil:

I do not know much about this project other than I read there is already an over capacity of pipeline right now. Do you know if this true? The other thing I read is that farmers and land owners are upset because they can use eminent domain to acquire the land. Is that true?-----Wrong Pipeline space is short----------And Eminent Domain can be used by any common carrier---not only pipelines but also Railroads---- And you don't acqiure land only a right of way across the land

soonercruiser
11/12/2011, 09:41 PM
Phil:

I do not know much about this project other than I read there is already an over capacity of pipeline right now. Do you know if this true? The other thing I read is that farmers and land owners are upset because they can use eminent domain to acquire the land. Is that true?

Diver,
The Oklahoma papers have had numerous articles written on the "bottleneck" with all the oil coming into Cushing, OK.
I was suprised to see the reference in that last article I posted saying it was only "near capacity".
All that I have heard locally is, they can't get enough oil out of Cushing.
Phil???

soonercruiser
11/12/2011, 09:48 PM
Diver,

Here is an article from Commodity On-Line
http://www.commodityonline.com/news/Oil-glut-in-Cushing-and-pipeline-bottlenecks-37733-3-1.html


NEW YORK (Commodity Online): North America has witnessed phenomenal growth in Oil supplies and is among the largest contributor to non-OPEC oil supply growth. However, pipeline bottlenecks have created problems for WTI sweet Crude Oil making it the cheapest Oil available due to the glut despite Libyan tensions pushing up oil prices globally.

How long will WTI crude oil with delivery point at Cushing, Oklahoma remain the benchmark for the global commodity? It may not last beyond 2014, according to an analysis by Bank of America-Merrill Lynch (BofAML). North American crude oil supplies are surging at a fast pace and US was the largest contributor to non-OPEC oil supply growth in 2010, adding nearly 370,000 b/d, and Canadian oil output increased by 150,000 b/d/. Presently, refineries around Oklahoma are flooded with crude oil and capacities stretched to the limit.

Surplus oil in PADD 2 region are being moved to other parts of USA where refining capacitiies are available but they are limited by pipeline supply bottlenecks especially to US Gulf Coast.
Similarly, Crude Oil movements into PADD 4, the Rockies, have accelerated ) towards the end of last year. But refineries around the Rockies are
already operating at very high levels, and we see limited scope for further crude oil movements into PADD 4

With the pipeline system saturated, shippers have moved on to other sources of transport including rail and truck to take advantage of the price differentials
between landlocked WTI and Gulf Coast seaborne grades such as Light Louisiana Sweet and HLS (Chart 17).


And, from Hydrocarbonprocessing.com
http://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com/Article/2829281/Margins-surge-for-US-inland-refiners-as-Cushing-crude-bottleneck-leads-to-WTI-discount-study.html


Margins surge for US inland refiners as Cushing crude bottleneck leads to WTI discount - study
05.17.2011 |

US refinery margins surged in the first quarter, led mostly by inland refineries amid historically low prices for WTI-priced inland crude oils relative to waterborne alternatives, according to a study released on Tuesday from consulting firm Baker & O’Brien.

Once sufficient additional pipeline capacity is placed into service, the current high discounts will likely decrease to historic norms. However, a return to historical norms may not happen until 2013 or later.

diverdog
11/12/2011, 10:24 PM
-----Wrong Pipeline space is short----------And Eminent Domain can be used by any common carrier---not only pipelines but also Railroads---- And you don't acqiure land only a right of way across the land

Thanks Rex. I really have not followed this issue at all. My guess is that the pipeline is being stopped by Nimby groups on both sides.

diverdog
11/12/2011, 10:25 PM
Diver,

Here is an article from Commodity OPn-Line
http://www.commodityonline.com/news/Oil-glut-in-Cushing-and-pipeline-bottlenecks-37733-3-1.html



And, from Hydrocarbonprocessing.com
http://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com/Article/2829281/Margins-surge-for-US-inland-refiners-as-Cushing-crude-bottleneck-leads-to-WTI-discount-study.html

Thanks cruiser.

cleller
11/13/2011, 01:48 PM
Gen. Leslie Groves was handed the job of building the Pentagon in August of 1941. By April of 1942, people were moving into some offices there. By October, 1942 construction was nearing completion and Groves began planning construction for sites related to the Manhattan Project. The Pentagon was officially dedicated in January, 1943. Under 18 months start to finish.

This pipeline project is ready to go, but Obama needs as much time as it took to build the Pentagon just to make up his mind?

I imagine Gen. Groves would be sick to his stomach at the bunch of indecisive do-nothings that run our government. On both sides.