Paterno GONE!

[SoonerMom2]

Who were those hysterical bastards shrieking out questions in the presser? Local media I assume.

That was unbelievable from the media and now ESPN said they are expecting riots from the students!

[OhU1]

Look, Penn State is screwed - $100,000,000's of millions will be paid out by PSU before this is over. Firing Paterno now is the least they can do. But it's way to late to save Penn State from having to fork over some huge chunks of money coming up in the next few years.

I have never liked Penn State but I have to feel bad for their fans and past and present players. How disgusting and vile for your program to be associated with child rape. It would be hard to ever look at your school and your team the same way again - especially since everything having to do with Penn State is synonymous with Paterno and his fake good guy image.

[AlboSooner]

Why does Kirk Herbstreet almost sound disappointed that he was let go? Kinda changes the way I see Kirk now.
Well it was not his kid, so he couldn't care less. He's got Big 10 loyalties to care after.

[IBleedCrimson]

Why is this a sad day for football? Good riddance.

not a sad day for football. its a sad day for humanity.

[SoonerPride]

He won't be but I think that old fake deserves to be indicted criminally.

I do as well.

This isn't just a poor decision.

It's criminal negligence.

He's culpable and should face legal action.

And the victims should sue the university for as much as those who were abused by priests. Bankrupt them and shut the place down.

I'm not kidding.

[nighttrain12]

Good riddance!

If he didn't know better about what he should have done back in 2002 then there is nothing positive to be said about him now. That's sad of course but life is tough.

After contacting his AD he should have confronted Sandusky and also fired him immediately, and then contacted the police.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR CHILD ABUSE!

FYI - Sandusky had retired as a coach 3 years earlier. He didn't work for Paterno anymore.

[SoonerMom2]

The way Herbstreidt is talking sounds like they are already rioting -- welcome to the Big 10/12 or whatever. The OSU has had many riots over the years where dumb kids even burned their own cars.

[salth2o]

Why does Kirk Herbstreet almost sound disappointed that he was let go? Kinda changes the way I see Kirk now.

agreed.

[StoopTroup]

It's nothing to celebrate, because at the end of the day, there are some pretty messed up kids and adults, who were kids when this happened, out there who will not be helped by a bunch of old men losing their jobs. Burden of proof or not, if 1/64th of what was in that Grand Jury report was true, they deserve to lose their jobs at the bare minimum. But the victim list is growing by the day. Easily the worst scandal to ever hit college athletics.






It will help that a bunch of Old men lose their jobs. They failed to recognize a growing problem in our Country and this one was done by a guy that's 67 years old. Paterno is 84. They were both in charge of making good decisions and being mentors to people on top of being a Football Coach. They and many others at Happy Valley made some really awful choices. I hope this is a lesson to everyone who are in their position at other schools whether they are 25 years old or 90 years old. You must always report these types of situations to Authorities.

I'm not celebrating in any way but I am really glad this cover up is finally being handled. Paterno had a chance to do exactly what they are doing right now and he failed to do the right thing.

They will be helped by a bunch of old men losing their jobs and so will kids from here on out hopefully.

[8timechamps]

Well it was not his kid, so he couldn't care less. He's got Big 10 loyalties to care after.

Sadly, that's what I thought too.

[AlboSooner]

not a sad day for football. its a sad day for humanity.

Joepa's firing?

[Sooner Cal]

The media built this image that Joe Paterno was a saint because Joe put himself forward as an honest bloke. He even slammed other coaches implying that they cheated. I always saw him as just a football coach, no more honest than any other coach. It looks like he may be even less honest than most.

Hard to understand why he didn't act when told of the abuse. PSU was in a 5 year losing streak when the Sandusky abuse was witnessed by the GA. They went 26-33 from 2000 to 2004. People were calling for Joe to be fired. He certainly didn't need any other problems. Then there's his personal relationship with Sandusky. Maybe he just couldn't confront him. Whatever the reason, he destroyed his legacy.

[olevetonahill]

Only Not so Happy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CyXBxCup8U

[landrun]

Why does Kirk Herbstreet almost sound disappointed that he was let go? Kinda changes the way I see Kirk now.

In fairness to Kirt, he was the first person I heard say Jo Pa should be fired and not allowed to coach this weekend. I heard him say that yesterday.

[OhU1]

Well, you asked so, yes, I have.
I'm a public school administrator. A few months into my first superintendency I received word that one of my 4th grade students had received a rather severe beating at home before school that morning. This 4th grader was responsible at home for getting 3 younger children up for school, getting them dressed and preparing any breakfast they may get before coming to school. Apparently the kids had been too noisy that morning and "dad" (actually mom's doper shack job) had grabbed her by the throat and slammed her backward against the wall.
I interviewed the child myself. The process took a while and the child expressed fear that word may get back to mom and doper. In her words, "They'll kill me."
She had the bruises to back her story.
I notified DHS. Surprisingly the DHS investigator showed up quite quickly. After looking the situation over the investigator and interviewing all of the kids the DHS investigator and I became convinced that the home was full of drugs that were used in front of the children and was quite violent. The investigator called law enforcement.
After another longer that necessary interview process the officer left to get a search warrant for the home. He assured me he'd be back before the end of the school day. He wasn't.
the kids were more than terrified. Even the smallest of them told me, "We're dead."
I took the kids into my office with the DHS investigator and locked them in there. As I did so I assured the children that they would not be going to their house tonight. If nothing else was arranged, they would be going home with me. Was I within my legal right to say that? Absolutely not. I was however within my moral right. The relief on the children's faces was heartbreaking. Even now I wonder how awful must a child's life be that they'd show such comfort from being told they would not be going home to their mother.
Mom soon arrived. I told her there had been a "problem" reported and that the kids were in a secure place where they would stay until law enforcement arrived. She stomped off to get her "husband."
I had my secretary make a 911 call requesting assistance. A second officer soon arrived. I briefed him on the situation and explained specifically that if he had any intention of giving the kids to mom or "dad" he should just go ahead and handcuff me now.
All this time I was thinking, wow, what a short career as an administrator this was.
Thankfully, he contacted headquarters and was informed the officer #1 was in route back to the school with a court's order to take the children into protective custody and a search warrant for the home.
Yes, there were drugs. As far as I know the children have still not been returned.
Looking back, I know that if I had not been an advocate for the kids
1. The DHS investigator would have "opened a case" that may or may not have gotten the kids help quickly.
2. The original officer would not have pushed for state custody of the kids.
3. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if the kids had gone home and been harmed after trusting me with their story.
4. I'd put my freedom and career on the line again tomorrow to save kids from a similar situation.
5. Every adult who failed those kids deserve to be fired and a reserved seat in the hottest part of hell.

Guzziguy, I don't know Joe Paterno, Joe Paterno is not a friend of mine. Guzziguy, you my friend are no Joe Paterno.

Good job.

[tulsaoilerfan]

IMO Paterno really ****ed over the Board of Trustees and he's coming off looking like the victim now; he should have done the honorable thing and resigned instead of forcing those people to make the decision; now they look like villians for doing the right thing; this is one ****ed up situation

[Herr Scholz]

In fairness to Kirt, he was the first person I heard say Jo Pa should be fired and not allowed to coach this weekend. I heard him say that yesterday.
Yeah, and Herbstreit also said he wouldn't let any of his 4 boys go to Penn St. under the current leaders (at the time).

[StoopTroup]

FYI - Sandusky had retired as a coach 3 years earlier. He didn't work for Paterno anymore.





It goes to show us all that folks go off when Child Molesters pop up that could have been stopped. Even though Sandusky retired....he was probably allowed to retire and instead of disappearing and being ashamed of himself....he was allowed to keep on molesting and even folks like Lou Hotlz today had spoke at this Monsters 2nd Mile program and had given Money to it. There are some pretty famous folks that are pretty outraged that this guy was so close to being stopped in 2002 and was essentially let go.

[8timechamps]

IMO Paterno really ****ed over the Board of Trustees and he's coming off looking like the victim now; he should have done the honorable thing and resigned instead of forcing those people to make the decision; now they look like villians for doing the right thing; this is one ****ed up situation

He did **** over the board. I don't think he's being viewed as a victim, outside of the campus of Penn State.

[tulsaoilerfan]

He did **** over the board. I don't think he's being viewed as a victim, outside of the campus of Penn State. Sorry that's what i mean to say; i will be surprised if there are not riots overnight in Happy Valley

[StoopTroup]

IMO Paterno really ****ed over the Board of Trustees and he's coming off looking like the victim now; he should have done the honorable thing and resigned instead of forcing those people to make the decision; now they look like villians for doing the right thing; this is one ****ed up situation




Yep.

[IBleedCrimson]

Joepa's firing?

i misunderstood.

this situation (a child predator raping children and authority allowing it to continue) is not only a sad day for college football, but a sad day for humanty

[A Sooner in Texas]

He won't be but I think that old fake deserves to be indicted criminally.

If the state Attorney General's Office and DA's Office have any balls, they'll at least take it to the grand jury. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn JoePa knew even more and looked away.

[StoopTroup]

If there are riots....The riots are Paterno's Fault too.

[8timechamps]

Sorry that's what i mean to say; i will be surprised if there are not riots overnight in Happy Valley

I got it, I was just pointing out that the people (probably mostly students) at Penn State seem to be the only ones that view JoPa as a victim. We're on the same page...wow, I didn't know you were as smart as I am?! :)

[FaninAma]

Guzziguy,

Who first informed you of the alleged abuse? Was it a subordinate? Do you instruct your subordinates to go directly to the police or DHS without your knowledge or do you instruct them to go up the chain of command when dealing with legal issues? If you do have a subordinate that disagrees with your decision on a legal matter I assume that you are okay with them going outside the chain of command and over your head when they disagreee with how you are handling the situation. You even admit how stressful the action was that you took. And there is nothing that guarantees you the parents won't hire an attorney who will do everything in his or her power to discredit you. Take my word for it as somebody who has dealt with dozens of these cases over the years. I have had multiple attorneys try to discredit my report and testimony as well threaten me personally with legal action for libeling their clients.

I have never claimed that the Penn State heirarchy didn't fail these kids or fail their moral and legal duty. i strongly disagree that the majority of the failure lies at the feet of Joe Paterno.

I applaud the way you handled the situation with the child and family in your story. You, as opposed to Paterno's superiors, did the right thing. But why did the person who reported the situation to you not go di
rectly to the police or DHS? Why did they report it to you? Is that the policy of the school? Did you talk to your legal office prior to contacting DHS? Again, you took the right action but don't pretend it isn't more complicated than picking up a phone and making a call or that the school you work for doesn't have a po
licy and procedure for instituting a legal action like you did. I guarantee you if there are legal repurcussions that come back on the school they will hang you out to dry if you didn't follow correct policy and procedure.

I point these things out so people understand how tough these situations are. Doing the right thing is not always as easy as you think and sometimes you have to walk that line all by yourself. Not eferybody is prepared to do that and they take the easy way out. Joe Paterno took the easy way out and it cost him but as somebody who has walked that line by myself I can put myself in his shoes and understand why he left it up to his superiors in his chain of command.

One other thing....Herr scholz, you are a flippin' idiot.

[MyT Oklahoma]

FYI - Sandusky had retired as a coach 3 years earlier. He didn't work for Paterno anymore.

Okie dokie.. so forget about firing him but he should have been confronted.. told to stay the hell away from there.. and reported to the police.

The last time I felt so disgusted about child abuse was Ash Wednesday 2002 (I am Catholic) when I learned about a former Catholic Priest in Newton, Kansas who had abused dozens of Altar Boys. Three of whom were rumored to have committed suicide afterwards.

I have zero sympathy for child abusers and for anyone who enables them.

[OhU1]

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/rattlehead666/kirkherbstreit_earthquakeface_sandusky.gif

[Soonerfan88]

If the state Attorney General's Office and DA's Office have any balls, they'll at least take it to the grand jury. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn JoePa knew even more and looked away.

In an interview, the DA was informed by a reporter that Sandusky brought a young boy from his charity to closed practices in 2007 in full view of both Paterno and McQuery. Reporter then asked if that were something that could bring charges. DA appeared to be hearing about this for the first time, said it was an interesting question and would certainly be looked into. This definitely isn't over for anyone who knew.

[LiveLaughLove]

Herbstreit said the board did the right thing, so not sure why people are saying he seemed sad. He just seemed sullen or solemn to me. This is a grave situation.

Sandusky was not a coach currently, but he was still allowed free reign there by the guy that knew of his questionable (at best) behavior. Inexcusable.

Paterno's name should be removed from anything connected to the school. This is THE WORST scandal that I have ever heard of in CFB, or football at any level, period, and he allowed it by his lack of action.

[8timechamps]

In an interview, the DA was informed by a reporter that Sandusky brought a young boy from his charity to closed practices in 2007 in full view of both Paterno and McQuery. Reporter then asked if that were something that could bring charges. DA appeared to be hearing about this for the first time, said it was an interesting question and would certainly be looked into. This definitely isn't over for anyone who knew.

Unfortunately, there will probably be many more incidents that come to light.

Man, I gave my kids an extra long hug tonight before bed.

[SoonerMom2]

Two students have been arrested and cannisters fired into the air to try and disperse the crowd. This might not end well either. It is on ESPN right now.

[AlboSooner]

Herbstreit said the board did the right thing, so not sure why people are saying he seemed sad. He just seemed sullen or solemn to me.

He rode the fence on this. You don't ride the fence on something like this. He said a few things which contradicted each other.

[8timechamps]

Herbstreit said the board did the right thing, so not sure why people are saying he seemed sad. He just seemed sullen or solemn to me. This is a grave situation.

Sandusky was not a coach currently, but he was still allowed free reign there by the guy that knew of his questionable (at best) behavior. Inexcusable.

Paterno's name should be removed from anything connected to the school. This is THE WORST scandal that I have ever heard of in CFB, or football at any level, period, and he allowed it by his lack of action.

Well, I think I may have jumped the gun. From what I've heard now, it seems he also thought the board made the right move. I just have no sympathy for Paterno losing his job, or anyone associated with this mess, and I think I just saw any "solemness" as sympathy.

I've always liked Herbstreet, so it's good to here he's in agreement.

[Wishboned]

If the state Attorney General's Office and DA's Office have any balls, they'll at least take it to the grand jury. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn JoePa knew even more and looked away.

With the revelations coming out now about how long this sick bastard Sandusky was doing this there had to be plenty of red flags and warning signs.

I believe that Paterno knew, or suspected, and turned a blind eye towards it.

His name should be stricken from the NCAA record books.

[salth2o]

How does JoPa even begin to formulate a public response to this? If he says he knew this was going on, he will be strung up (and may be anyway). If he goes SGT. Shultz and says I know nothing, he loses all credibility and respect.

[VA Sooner]

Message sent... the PSU board of trustees aren't messing around and this was the only way to stop the hemorrhaging from this nightmare. Inexcusable that this was allowed to go on during his time at PSU and that JoePa had knowledge of it.

This is still in motion though... it's going to be a long night in College Park, PA.

[IBleedCrimson]

you are defined by your actions. paterno's lack of action allowed children to be abused in the most horrific ways. sorry, but thats how the **** goes

[BillyBall]

We are..... Peder State!

[OhU1]

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/rattlehead666/jerrysandusky_lebowskiballshine.gif

[SoonerMom2]

Penn State is in State College, PA. We have stopped there on our way back from my in-laws in Upstate NY.

[Herr Scholz]

One other thing....Herr scholz, you are a flippin' idiot.
OK. I guess I'm easy to attack because I'm a Horn fan. I simply disagree with your opinion. I think the guy deserves to be prosecuted. He let boys get raped by a monster.

[nighttrain12]

We are..... Peder State!

Penn-itration State.

[Herr Scholz]

Dude: "The creep can roll man..."
Walter: "Yeah but he's a pervert"
Dude: "Yeah"
Walter: "No he's a pedophile with a record. He served 6 months in Chino for exposing himself to an 8 year old. When he moved to Hollywood he had to go door to door to tell everyone that he was a pederast."
Donny: Walter, what's a pederast?"
Walter: "Shut the f*** up donny."

[BeaSooner]

McQueary should be next

[Herr Scholz]

I'll also say this, FaninAma, I've got 2 boys so this hits home for me. You have kids? Or are you just trying to be the devil's advocate here as well as lashing out at a Longhorn?

[FaninAma]

OK. I guess I'm easy to attack because I'm a Horn fan. I simply disagree with your opinion. I think the guy deserves to be prosecuted. He let boys get raped by a monster.

No, he didn't. Penn State, like any other large state or federal institution, has a policy for handling legal issues that occur within the institution. As an employee of one of these institutions you are required to follow their policies on legal matters. It involves contacting your chain of command who should in turn contact the legal department.

Now you can argue that Paterno should have followed up on his report and gone over the head of the person or persons above him but that is a very treacherous road to go down. You better be prepared to look for another job when you do it. And I get the point that Paterno carried enough clout he could have forced the issue a lot more than he did. But he has also been an employee of this institution for over 60 years. He probably trusted his superiors to do the right thing.

One other thing, if you go outside policy and procedure of your employer and there are legal ramifications or fallout from it you better not count on your employer to stand behind you as you defend yourself from the legal counterattack whether it is justified or not.

We all hope we would have done more than Paterno did if faced with the same situation. The ugly truth is if you truly undertand the road you are about to travel down it is not hard to understand why he didn't. I honestly hope every single one of you who hopes he suffers as much as possible for his error does better when faced with a similiar situation.

Funny thing about being human, sometimes we don't do the right thing even though we have the best of intentions.

[8timechamps]

I don't want to throw JoPa into the same classification as Sandusky (a monster), so I think my anger toward JoPa is that he turned a blind eye from what he knew. He was Penn State, he was bigger than the president at Penn State. He wanted that power, and he got it. He could have stepped in and saved other victims, and he chose not to. He may not be the monster that Sandusky is, but he certainly isn't the JoPa that he wanted us to think he was. In the end, if losing his job is the only price he has to pay for his inaction, then he got off pretty easy.

[Herr Scholz]

No, he didn't.
Yeah. He did.



Now you can argue that Paterno should have followed up on his report and gone over the head of the person or persons above him but that is a very treacherous road to go down. tion.
I will and I do. He should've called the police. Period.

Again, do you have kids?

[8timechamps]

McCreary should be next

Not sure, from reading the Grand Jury report, it appears that McCreary told everyone he could at the school. He even told his own dad, who urged him to tell JoPa. Should he have gone to the police on his own, sure, but at 28, I'm not sure if I would have told every one I worked for, then to the police. It may be that he is as much at fault as everyone else, or he was a 28 year old kid, who told everyone he thought to tell, and didn't know what to do after that (thinking it was all be handled).

[SoonerMom2]

Students turned over a media van -- students starting to getting out of control. The students are mad at the media. Police are very outnumbered and cannot break up the crowd.

[SCOUT]

This whole thing just makes me sick. This piece of **** had a foundation for at risk kids. You know, those that needed someone to look out for them.

Not only did he betray the trust of their parents (for those that have them), but I can't even comprehend the trust issues these kids will have for the rest of their lives. No, JoPa didn't commit this crime. He just helped let it happen for a couple of decades.

JoPa said that he had a slew of grand kids. I wonder if he would have said something to the police if Sandusky was raping them instead of some poor kids.

[sooneron]

I think that 50% of the reason that he was fired tonight was his dictating to the trustees that they should not deliberate over his situation. Never poke the powers that be...

[BB37]

How long will he live........tough changing your life at that age.

I've thought for a long time that JoPa wouldn't last long once he retired. Seems like some people retire, and for whatever reason, die. I certainly don't wish that on JoPa, but wouldn't surprise me.

We've seen it twice in the past two weeks with BBSr and Andy Rooney. And neither of them left in the midst of a scandal like this.

And I agree, certainly not wishing anything of the sort on Mr. Paterno.

[BeaSooner]

Not sure, from reading the Grand Jury report, it appears that McCreary told everyone he could at the school. He even told his own dad, who urged him to tell JoPa. Should he have gone to the police on his own, sure, but at 28, I'm not sure if I would have told every one I worked for, then to the police. It may be that he is as much at fault as everyone else, or he was a 28 year old kid, who told everyone he thought to tell, and didn't know what to do after that (thinking it was all be handled).

As an eye-witness, he had a personal responsibility. He saw it first-hand. And continued to GA, accept a coaching position, and witness Sandusky bringing more children to the facilities. I just don't know how you go on as if it didn't happen. What feedback could he have possibly received that negated him from escalating to the police? If you saw a murder, reported it to your supervisor and they responded "we handled it", yet you continued to see the murderer walking free, parading in front of you, how do you justify not escalating it?

[8timechamps]

I think that 50% of the reason that he was fired tonight was his dictating to the trustees that they should not deliberate over his situation. Never poke the powers that be...

Yep. Ego, it's a bitch.

[sooneron]

Students turned over a media van -- students starting to getting out of control. The students are mad at the media. Police are very outnumbered and cannot break up the crowd.

This can't be, PSU and B1G fans are so classy!
NSFW or NSFYE
jDiRPUiQZHc

[yankee]

Yeah, Penn State took the high road and fired the guy who reported that crime they didn't do anything about. (rolls eyes)

[Soonerfan88]

Ama, you truly believe that worrying about chain of command issues and blindly following policy is more important that stopping child molestation? It's one thing when you are reporting theft or fraud and another when it involves that level of assault.

I agree that Paterno didn't have to immediately called 911, but McQueary should have as it was an assault in progress. However, once they reported it to senior officials and nothing was done about it, you are damn right both should have taken further action and gone to the authorities with the information.

And if my boss refuses to do the right thing then fires me for doing it instead, I think I needed to find a better place to work anyway.


Edit: And I don't have kids nor need to have them to understand how wrong this is.

[BeaSooner]

Ama, you truly believe that worrying about chain of command issues and blindly following policy is more important that stopping child molestation? It's one thing when you are reporting theft or fraud and another when it involves that level of assault.

I agree that Paterno didn't have to immediately called 911, but McQueary should have as it was an assault in progress. However, once they reported it to senior officials and nothing was done about it, you are damn right both should have taken further action and gone to the authorities with the information.

And if my boss refuses to do the right thing then fires me for doing it instead, I think I needed to find a better place to work anyway.


Edit: And I don't have kids nor need to have them to understand how wrong this is.

and a lawyer. even a ****ty one will do.

[8timechamps]

As an eye-witness, he had a personal responsibility. He saw it first-hand. And continued to GA, accept a coaching position, and witness Sandusky bringing more children to the facilities. I just don't know how you go on as if it didn't happen. What feedback could he have possibly received that negated him from escalating to the police? If you saw a murder, reported it to your supervisor and they responded "we handled it", yet you continued to see the murderer walking free, parading in front of you, how do you justify not escalating it?

From what I read in the Grand Jury report, It appeared he only saw the one incident. He informed JoPa, The AD, and the president. My point is that I can understand why a 28 year old kid might think that was who he needed to notify. Now, I stopped reading the report after the 3rd victim's testimony, so I may have missed the additional instances he witnessed, and if that's the case, then I agree with you.

Just to be clear: I think McQuery needs to be gone too. My point is that I think he did what he thought was appropriate at the time. I don't think he turned a blind eye. However, I'd also like to think if I were in his shoes, I would have beaten' the **** out of Sandusky, but that's easy for me to say.

[Herr Scholz]

Don't know how anyone can give Paterno a pass on this. Really don't.

[Veritas]

Students turned over a media van -- students starting to getting out of control. The students are mad at the media. Police are very outnumbered and cannot break up the crowd.
That's a pretty damn sad statement. Buncha little boys get raped, living legend coach doesn't do what he could have to stop it, gets fired, so kids that are of the age that it could have been them getting cornholed riot about it.

Morons.

[sooneron]

No, he didn't. Penn State, like any other large state or federal institution, has a policy for handling legal issues that occur within the institution. As an employee of one of these institutions you are required to follow their policies on legal matters. It involves contacting your chain of command who should in turn contact the legal department.


In this case, the perp is someone that is not a member of the institution in any official regard, so I disagree with your opinion on this.

[SoonerMom2]

The funniest thing I heard all night was the anchor asking if the students had been drinking and the reporter in the crowd chuckled. Looks like they have been destroying property. Large numbers of police officers. They have cleared out the students from the turned over media van.

[SoonerMom2]

That's a pretty damn sad statement. Buncha little boys get raped, living legend coach doesn't do what he could have to stop it, gets fired, so kids that are of the age that it could have been them getting cornholed riot about it.

Morons. They are morons and worse they are drunk morons the way it sounds.

[Soonerfan88]

8X, why do you persist in calling a 28 year old a kid? At what age do people start being responsible in your world? He saw a rape in progress and didn't ever call the police. When I was 28, I saw my downstairs neighbor beating up his wife and called 911 so I'm certainly going to report a child being raped.

And McQueary never left Penn State so he continued to see Sandusky have free reign of the campus for the next 9 years. He was present in 2007 when the pervert brought another boy from his foundation to a closed PSU practice and still said nothing. He should also have been fired tonight.

[IBleedCrimson]

No, he didn't. Penn State, like any other large state or federal institution, has a policy for handling legal issues that occur within the institution. As an employee of one of these institutions you are required to follow their policies on legal matters. It involves contacting your chain of command who should in turn contact the legal department.

Now you can argue that Paterno should have followed up on his report and gone over the head of the person or persons above him but that is a very treacherous road to go down. You better be prepared to look for another job when you do it. And I get the point that Paterno carried enough clout he could have forced the issue a lot more than he did. But he has also been an employee of this institution for over 60 years. He probably trusted his superiors to do the right thing.

One other thing, if you go outside policy and procedure of your employer and there are legal ramifications or fallout from it you better not count on your employer to stand behind you as you defend yourself from the legal counterattack whether it is justified or not.

We all hope we would have done more than Paterno did if faced with the same situation. The ugly truth is if you truly undertand the road you are about to travel down it is not hard to understand why he didn't. I honestly hope every single one of you who hopes he suffers as much as possible for his error does better when faced with a similiar situation.

Funny thing about being human, sometimes we don't do the right thing even though we have the best of intentions.

yes, we realize paterno did the BARE MINIMUM required of him. he did ONLY what the law required.

thats the whole point. he could have stopped children from being raped by picking up a phone again, and consciously decided NOT TOO. to him, being just within lawfulness = doing his duty. and children continued to be raped because of those conscious decisions.

[sooneron]

We all hope we would have done more than Paterno did if faced with the same situation. The ugly truth is if you truly undertand the road you are about to travel down it is not hard to understand why he didn't. I honestly hope every single one of you who hopes he suffers as much as possible for his error does better when faced with a similiar situation.

Funny thing about being human, sometimes we don't do the right thing even though we have the best of intentions.

A.) How did Joe KNOW the road that he was about to travel down?

B.) How do you know that Joe & the AD didn't offer the McQuery kid a coaching job to shut him up?

[BeaSooner]

From what I read in the Grand Jury report, It appeared he only saw the one incident. He informed JoPa, The AD, and the president. My point is that I can understand why a 28 year old kid might think that was who he needed to notify. Now, I stopped reading the report after the 3rd victim's testimony, so I may have missed the additional instances he witnessed, and if that's the case, then I agree with you.

he didn't witness any additional that I am aware of. but Sandusky continued to parade children to preseason practices etc that was 2005-2006. and didn't he still have an office on campus? he had to know it was swept under the carpet. it isn't like Sandusky disappeared. he was still hanging out.

[8timechamps]

The funniest thing I heard all night was the anchor asking if the students had been drinking and the reporter in the crowd chuckled. Looks like they have been destroying property. Large numbers of police officers. They have cleared out the students from the turned over media van.

Chances are 99% of them don't really care enough about JoPa to be upset (to the point of rioting), but they're young, dumb and probably full of alcohol. The media was the spark that lit that fire.

[Veritas]

I wasn't aware that there was such a history at PSU of the students rioting. WTF. Who does that ****?

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/crowds-at-penn-state-after-joe-fired-110911

[SoonerMom2]

It is a Big 10/12 deal. When The OSU won the National Championship, they rioted in Columbus and some girl was caught on video setting fire to her car -- that is one time there was no insurance claim. They burned couches, etc.

[sooneron]

They call it Pennsyltucky for a reason.

[Veritas]

Tear gas and riot cops. Stay classy PSU.
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/10/2551233/penn-state-riot-tear-gas-pepper-spray

I gotta say, I'm glad I'm not going to the game there this weekend. I had an opportunity for tickets but passed. I've heard their treatment of opfans is pretty bad, can't imagine what things will be like on Saturday.

[SoonerMom2]

It was a local media truck -- broke out all the windows. The students believe if they riot enough that they can make it happen that Paterno can coach on Saturday according to the ESPN Reporter who was hit by a rock. Anger toward the media. This 'blame the media' mantra is getting really disgusting all the way around. The drunk students has moved to another part of the street. Police are telling the media they need to get out of the area. Now throwing beer bottles at the police officers.

[salth2o]

Students turned over a media van -- students starting to getting out of control. The students are mad at the media. Police are very outnumbered and cannot break up the crowd.

Occupy State College 99% dip****s.

[8timechamps]

8X, why do you persist in calling a 28 year old a kid? At what age do people start being responsible in your world? He saw a rape in progress and didn't ever call the police. When I was 28, I saw my downstairs neighbor beating up his wife and called 911 so I'm certainly going to report a child being raped.

And McQueary never left Penn State so he continued to see Sandusky have free reign of the campus for the next 9 years. He was present in 2007 when the pervert brought another boy from his foundation to a closed PSU practice and still said nothing. He should also have been fired tonight.

First, back up the truck...I'm just voicing my thoughts on this mess. I'm over 40, so I call most 20ish age people "kids". No double meaning. I am also trying to look at it from my perspective....If I, at age 28, saw what McQuery saw, what would I do? I would contact everyone around me (head coach, assitant coaches, Athletic director, university president) and told them what I had seen. And while I don't know what the responses were, I can veture a guess that they were probably along the lines of "OK, well take it from here".

Should he have walked out and called the police, sure, but I don't know if I were in that position if I would have done that after being told by my supriors that "everything would be taken care of". Maybe he thought they were contacting the police? I don't know what his thinking was, I'm just saying I can understand why he may have felt that he had done as much as he could at that time. When in reality, none of us know how we would have done at that time in his situation.

Like I said above, I'd like to think I would have beat the hell out of Sandusky on the night the incident occurred, but I've also said things like "I'd like to think I woulnd't have given the order to fire the TOW at the suspicious vehicle in Iraq, if I had to do it all over again"....so, it's all just speculation.

In the end, McQuery will be gone, as he should be, I'm just saying I can understand to a point that he thought he had done the right thing.

[FaninAma]

88, reread my posts. I think you will see we are on the same page. The only difference is thst I recognize the role human frality plays in our decisions.

Paterno trusted his superiors too much. He had been a company man for over 60 years. His faith in his superiors and the policies of the company/ institution were understandable but misplaced. You will never convince me he willfully covered for a child molester. He lived up to his institutional duty but failed the higher moral standard. How many of us would similiarly come up short in a comparitive situation? Report problems up the chain of command. Let administration and the legal department handle it. Lets wait and see what the AD and vice president did with the information. I will be shocked if they didn't talk to the University legal department but I don't see any attorneys being crucified for this as of yet.

He deserves to be fired but he doesn't deserve the pure vitriol being hurled his way and the calls for perpetual suffering some on this thread are demanding. Personally I have some empathy for an 84 year old man who most likely is ending an otherwise exceptional career and life on a very sad note.

[BeaSooner]

First, back up the truck...I'm just voicing my thoughts on this mess. I'm over 40, so I call most 20ish age people "kids". No double meaning. I am also trying to look at it from my perspective....If I, at age 28, saw what McQuery saw, what would I do? I would contact everyone around me (head coach, assitant coaches, Athletic director, university president) and told them what I had seen. And while I don't know what the responses were, I can veture a guess that they were probably along the lines of "OK, well take it from here".

Should he have walked out and called the police, sure, but I don't know if I were in that position if I would have done that after being told by my supriors that "everything would be taken care of". Maybe he thought they were contacting the police? I don't know what his thinking was, I'm just saying I can understand why he may have felt that he had done as much as he could at that time. When in reality, none of us know how we would have done at that time in his situation.

Like I said above, I'd like to think I would have beat the hell out of Sandusky on the night the incident occurred, but I've also said things like "I'd like to think I woulnd't have given the order to fire the TOW at the suspicious vehicle in Iraq, if I had to do it all over again"....so, it's all just speculation.

In the end, McQuery will be gone, as he should be, I'm just saying I can understand to a point that he thought he had done the right thing.

I understand your thoughts, I just think that after days turned into weeks turned into months and no outcome, that he should have escalated it.

[guzziguy]

Guzziguy,

Who first informed you of the alleged abuse? Was it a subordinate? Do you instruct your subordinates to go directly to the police or DHS without your knowledge or do you instruct them to go up the chain of command when dealing with legal issues? If you do have a subordinate that disagrees with your decision on a legal matter I assume that you are okay with them going outside the chain of command and over your head when they disagreee with how you are handling the situation. You even admit how stressful the action was that you took. And there is nothing that guarantees you the parents won't hire an attorney who will do everything in his or her power to discredit you. Take my word for it as somebody who has dealt with dozens of these cases over the years. I have had multiple attorneys try to discredit my report and testimony as well threaten me personally with legal action for libeling their clients.

I have never claimed that the Penn State heirarchy didn't fail these kids or fail their moral and legal duty. i strongly disagree that the majority of the failure lies at the feet of Joe Paterno.

I applaud the way you handled the situation with the child and family in your story. You, as opposed to Paterno's superiors, did the right thing. But why did the person who reported the situation to you not go di
rectly to the police or DHS? Why did they report it to you? Is that the policy of the school? Did you talk to your legal office prior to contacting DHS? Again, you took the right action but don't pretend it isn't more complicated than picking up a phone and making a call or that the school you work for doesn't have a po
licy and procedure for instituting a legal action like you did. I guarantee you if there are legal repurcussions that come back on the school they will hang you out to dry if you didn't follow correct policy and procedure.

I point these things out so people understand how tough these situations are. Doing the right thing is not always as easy as you think and sometimes you have to walk that line all by yourself. Not eferybody is prepared to do that and they take the easy way out. Joe Paterno took the easy way out and it cost him but as somebody who has walked that line by myself I can put myself in his shoes and understand why he left it up to his superiors in his chain of command.

One other thing....Herr scholz, you are a flippin' idiot.

* Yes the school has/had a policy.

* A teacher brought the matter to my attention. If I'd been unresponsive or unavailable I would have expected her to contact law enforcement.

* As for the rest of your discussion, see # 4 in my list of outcomes at the end of my original post.

* I'm still in school administration, however at my current posting I'm not the superintendent. Given similar circumstances, my boss would take action similar to what I did. I have no doubt. If I thought differently I wouldn't have accepted the job. If strong, decisive, protective action wasn't taken in a similar set of circumstances, I would present myself to my boss and simply say, "The authorities will be called. Would you like to make the call or shall I."

* I have, in fact, quit a management job in education because of differences with my supervisor that were related to the safety of students and staff. I had money in my department budget to do a safety training and was told not to do it. The district at the time was desperately out of compliance on safety issues involving chemical storage, safety equipment and chemical documentation. They'd gotten that way because of training neglect. The dollars to make it right were very significant. I believe the district, through the actions of my superiors chose to keep the staff ignorant of their legal responsibilities so the needed repairs wouldn't be demanded. I couldn't continue in that position with a clear conscience so I resigned. My reasons for resigning were clearly stated in my resignation letter.

I believe that you must be willing to do what's best for those under you who have no control even if it has a large personal cost to you. Otherwise, well, I have no use for you.

In education, simply put, the good of the students are my first concern. After that, comes the staff. My personal comfort is at best 3rd.

[Veritas]

You guys watching ESPiN? That kid had some balls saying he thought the firing was the right move, surrounded by a crowd that's probably gonna kick his *** after the cameras go away.

[8timechamps]

I understand your thoughts, I just think that after days turned into weeks turned into months and no outcome, that he should have escalated it.

That's where he went wrong. He should have followed up regularly enough to know where in the process things were. And then I'd think he would have had the "Ah ha" moment upon realizing nothing had ever been reported....then reported it himself.

[IBleedCrimson]

Personally I have some empathy for an 84 year old man who most likely is ending an otherwise exceptional career and life on a very sad note.

how about empathy for raped children? and anger for someone who enabled it?

[FaninAma]

In this case, the perp is someone that is not a member of the institution in any official regard, so I disagree with your opinion on this.
The crime in question happened on University propert and Sandusky was given emeritus status by Penn State so you are wrong and he was affiliated with the university.

By all means, if it makes you feel better to draw and quarter an 84 year old man for mistakes in judgemtn he made by following what was probably university policy then be my guest.

[SCOUT]

I understand your thoughts, I just think that after days turned into weeks turned into months and no outcome, that he should have escalated it.

Shouldn't he have stopped it when he saw it? I recognize this is asking a lot, but am I alone in thinking just telling your boss isn't enough. I would hope Head Coaches, Assistant Coaches, and just good people would do better.

[SoonerMom2]

You guys watching ESPiN? That kid had some balls saying he thought the firing was the right move, surrounded by a crowd that's probably gonna kick his *** after the cameras go away. Been watching ESPN and couldn't believe what that kid had to say when he was surrounded. I think he wanted to be the face of Penn State that not everyone was a moron.

[Veritas]

Been watching ESPN and couldn't believe what that kid had to say when he was surrounded. I think he wanted to be the face of Penn State that not everyone was a moron.
Agreed. And good for him. Took some sack.

[BeaSooner]

Shouldn't he have stopped it when he saw it? I recognize this is asking a lot, but am I alone in thinking just telling your boss isn't enough. I would hope Head Coaches, Assistant Coaches, and just good people would do better.

Absolutely, but he didn't. The first move should have been to remove the child from the situation.

Admittedly, if I walked in on that I would be in utter shock and disbelief. But he had 9 years to redeem himself. Such a shame that he never found the fortitude to do it.

[BeaSooner]

Agreed. And good for him. Took some sack.

Something that "men" of higher stature didn't exhibit.

[olevetonahill]

Tear gas and riot cops. Stay classy PSU.
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/10/2551233/penn-state-riot-tear-gas-pepper-spray

I gotta say, I'm glad I'm not going to the game there this weekend. I had an opportunity for tickets but passed. I've heard their treatment of opfans is pretty bad, can't imagine what things will be like on Saturday.

Ill be surprised if the dont cancel the Game

[FaninAma]

Guzziguy, you would have expected the teacher to go over your head? So the next teacher that does on a legal matter you will be fine and a-okay with?

Did you contact the school attorneys and get their advice on your actions? Do you expect your teachers to routinely do more than contact you on legalor discipline issues or are they free to go above your head if they don't like your actions or if they think younare acting too slowly? How about if they don't like the leagla department's actions?

Would you ignore their advice or take a course of action not recommended by school attorneys if you disagreed with their decision even if your superintndent supported that decision? How far are you willing to walk out on that limb by yourself?

The fact that you are willing to quit your job and accept all of the negative ramifications of that action is impressive. I support you. I applaud you. I have done the same. All I am saying that many are not willing to do that. Does that make them the type of villain Paterno is being made out to be?

And it is my opinion the information Paterno had went up the administrative CoC and it went to the University legal department. So how far out on that limb should have a 75 year old man (at the time) trying to hang onto a job that many already wanted him to quit gone?

I am defending no one at Penn State on this travesty. All I am doing is asking that some of you hard@$$es who want Paterno flayed alive or who are otherwise comparing him to the child rapist to step back and have some petspective on the issue.

[guzziguy]

Just for fun, I looked up JoPa's mandatory reporting law applicable in his state. Here it is.

§ 42.42. Suspected child abuse—mandated reporting requirements.

(a) General rule. Under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6311 (relating to persons required to report suspected child abuse), licensees who, in the course of the employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall report or cause a report to be made to the Department of Public Welfare when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse.

(b) Staff members of public or private agencies, institutions and facilities. Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).

(c) Reporting procedure. Reports of suspected child abuse shall be made by telephone and by written report.

(1) Oral reports. Oral reports of suspected child abuse shall be made immediately by telephone to ChildLine, (800) 932-0313.

(2) Written reports. Written reports shall be made within 48 hours after the oral report is made by telephone. Written reports shall be made on forms available from a county children and youth social service agency.

(d) Written reports. Written reports shall be made in the manner and on forms prescribed by the Department of Public Welfare. The following information shall be included in the written reports, if available:

(1) The names and addresses of the child and the parents or other person responsible for the care of the child, if known.

(2) Where the suspected abuse occurred.

(3) The age and sex of the subjects of the report.

(4) The nature and extent of the suspected child abuse including any evidence of prior abuse to the child or siblings of the child.

(5) The name and relationship of the persons responsible for causing the suspected abuse, if known, and any evidence of prior abuse by those persons.

(6) Family composition.

(7) The source of the report.

(8) The person making the report and where that person can be reached.

(9) The actions taken by the reporting source, including the taking of photographs and X-rays, removal or keeping of the child or notifying the medical examiner or coroner.

(10) Other information which the Department of Public Welfare may require by regulation.

[BeaSooner]

It just boils down to your job security vs. the safety of disadvantaged children. The choice is easier for some than others.

[guzziguy]

Oklahoma's mandatory reporting law is much better and offers protection for people reporting.

A. 1. Every:
a. physician or surgeon, including doctors of medicine and dentistry, licensed osteopathic physicians, residents
and interns, examining, attending or treating a child under the age of eighteen (18) years,
b. registered nurse examining, attending or treating such a child in the absence of a physician or surgeon, c. teacher of any child under the age of eighteen (18) years, and
d. other person
having reason to believe that a child under the age of eighteen (18) years is a victim of abuse or neglect, shall report the matter promptly to the Department of Human Services. Such reports may be made by telephone, in writing, personally or by any other method prescribed by the Department. Any report of abuse or neglect made pursuant to this section shall be made in good faith.
2. Every physician or surgeon, including doctors of medicine, licensed osteopathic physicians, residents and interns, or any other health care professional attending the birth of a child who tests positive for alcohol or a controlled dangerous substance shall promptly report the matter to the Department of Human Services.
3. No privilege or contract shall relieve any person from the requirement of reporting pursuant to this section.
4. The reporting obligations under this section are individual, and no employer, supervisor or administrator shall impede or inhibit the reporting obligations of any employee or other person. No employer, supervisor or administrator of any employee or other person required to provide information pursuant to this section shall discharge, or in any manner discriminate or retaliate against, the employee or other person who in good faith provides such child abuse reports or information, testifies, or is about to testify in any proceeding involving child abuse or neglect; provided, that the person did not perpetrate or inflict such abuse or neglect. Any employer, supervisor or administrator who discharges, discriminates or retaliates against the employee or other person shall be liable for damages, costs and attorney fees. Internal procedures to facilitate child abuse or neglect reporting and inform employers, supervisors and administrators of reported suspected child abuse or neglect may be established provided that they are not inconsistent with the provisions of this section and that such procedures shall not relieve the employee or such other person from the individual reporting obligations required by this section.
5. Every physician or surgeon making a report of abuse or neglect as required by this subsection or examining a child to determine the likelihood of abuse or neglect and every hospital or related institution in which the child was examined or treated shall provide copies of the results of the examination or copies of the examination on which the report was based and any other clinical notes, x-rays, photographs, and other previous or current records relevant to the case to law enforcement officers conducting a criminal investigation into the case and to employees of the Department of Human Services conducting an investigation of alleged abuse or neglect in thecase.
B. If the report is not made in writing in the first instance, it shall be reduced to writing by the Department of Human Services, in accordance with rules promulgated by the Commission for Human Services, as soon as may be after it is initially made by telephone or otherwise and shall contain the following information:
1. The names and addresses of the child and the child's parents or other persons responsible for the child's health, safety or welfare;
2. The child's age;
3. The nature and extent of the abuse or neglect, including any evidence of previous injuries; 4. If the child has tested positive for alcohol or a controlled dangerous substance; and
5. Any other information that the maker of the report believes might be helpful in establishing the cause of the injuries and the identity of the person or persons responsible therefor if such information or any part thereof is known to the person making the report.
C. Any person who knowingly and willfully fails to promptly report any incident as provided in this section may be reported by the Department of Human Services to local law enforcement for criminal investigation and, upon conviction thereof, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
D. 1. Any person who knowingly and willfully makes a false report pursuant to the provisions of this section or a report that the person knows lacks factual foundation may be reported by the Department of Human Services to local law enforcement for criminal investigation and, upon conviction thereof, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
2. If a court determines that an accusation of child abuse or neglect made during a child custody proceeding is false and the person making the accusation knew it to be false at the time the accusation was made, the court may impose a fine, not to exceed Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00) and reasonable attorney fees incurred in recovering the sanctions, against the person making the accusation. The remedy provided by this paragraph is in addition to paragraph 1 of this subsection or to any other remedy provided by law.
E. 1. Nothing in this section shall be construed to mean a child is abused or neglected for the sole reason the parent, legal guardian or person having custody or control of a child, in good faith, selects and depends upon spiritual means alone through prayer, in accordance with the tenets and practice of a recognized church or religious denomination, for the treatment or cure of disease or remedial care of such child.
2. Nothing contained in this subsection shall prevent a court from immediately assuming custody of a child, pursuant to the Oklahoma Children's Code, and ordering whatever action may be necessary, including medical treatment, to protect the child's health or welfare.
F. Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to exempt or prohibit any person from reporting any suspected child abuse or neglect pursuant to subsection A of this section.

[guzziguy]

Oklahoma's mandatory reporting law is much better and offers protection for people reporting.

A. 1. Every:
a. physician or surgeon, including doctors of medicine and dentistry, licensed osteopathic physicians, residents
and interns, examining, attending or treating a child under the age of eighteen (18) years,
b. registered nurse examining, attending or treating such a child in the absence of a physician or surgeon, c. teacher of any child under the age of eighteen (18) years, and
d. other person
having reason to believe that a child under the age of eighteen (18) years is a victim of abuse or neglect, shall report the matter promptly to the Department of Human Services. Such reports may be made by telephone, in writing, personally or by any other method prescribed by the Department. Any report of abuse or neglect made pursuant to this section shall be made in good faith.
2. Every physician or surgeon, including doctors of medicine, licensed osteopathic physicians, residents and interns, or any other health care professional attending the birth of a child who tests positive for alcohol or a controlled dangerous substance shall promptly report the matter to the Department of Human Services.
3. No privilege or contract shall relieve any person from the requirement of reporting pursuant to this section.
4. The reporting obligations under this section are individual, and no employer, supervisor or administrator shall impede or inhibit the reporting obligations of any employee or other person. No employer, supervisor or administrator of any employee or other person required to provide information pursuant to this section shall discharge, or in any manner discriminate or retaliate against, the employee or other person who in good faith provides such child abuse reports or information, testifies, or is about to testify in any proceeding involving child abuse or neglect; provided, that the person did not perpetrate or inflict such abuse or neglect. Any employer, supervisor or administrator who discharges, discriminates or retaliates against the employee or other person shall be liable for damages, costs and attorney fees. Internal procedures to facilitate child abuse or neglect reporting and inform employers, supervisors and administrators of reported suspected child abuse or neglect may be established provided that they are not inconsistent with the provisions of this section and that such procedures shall not relieve the employee or such other person from the individual reporting obligations required by this section.
5. Every physician or surgeon making a report of abuse or neglect as required by this subsection or examining a child to determine the likelihood of abuse or neglect and every hospital or related institution in which the child was examined or treated shall provide copies of the results of the examination or copies of the examination on which the report was based and any other clinical notes, x-rays, photographs, and other previous or current records relevant to the case to law enforcement officers conducting a criminal investigation into the case and to employees of the Department of Human Services conducting an investigation of alleged abuse or neglect in thecase.
B. If the report is not made in writing in the first instance, it shall be reduced to writing by the Department of Human Services, in accordance with rules promulgated by the Commission for Human Services, as soon as may be after it is initially made by telephone or otherwise and shall contain the following information:
1. The names and addresses of the child and the child's parents or other persons responsible for the child's health, safety or welfare;
2. The child's age;
3. The nature and extent of the abuse or neglect, including any evidence of previous injuries; 4. If the child has tested positive for alcohol or a controlled dangerous substance; and
5. Any other information that the maker of the report believes might be helpful in establishing the cause of the injuries and the identity of the person or persons responsible therefor if such information or any part thereof is known to the person making the report.
C. Any person who knowingly and willfully fails to promptly report any incident as provided in this section may be reported by the Department of Human Services to local law enforcement for criminal investigation and, upon conviction thereof, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
D. 1. Any person who knowingly and willfully makes a false report pursuant to the provisions of this section or a report that the person knows lacks factual foundation may be reported by the Department of Human Services to local law enforcement for criminal investigation and, upon conviction thereof, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
2. If a court determines that an accusation of child abuse or neglect made during a child custody proceeding is false and the person making the accusation knew it to be false at the time the accusation was made, the court may impose a fine, not to exceed Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00) and reasonable attorney fees incurred in recovering the sanctions, against the person making the accusation. The remedy provided by this paragraph is in addition to paragraph 1 of this subsection or to any other remedy provided by law.
E. 1. Nothing in this section shall be construed to mean a child is abused or neglected for the sole reason the parent, legal guardian or person having custody or control of a child, in good faith, selects and depends upon spiritual means alone through prayer, in accordance with the tenets and practice of a recognized church or religious denomination, for the treatment or cure of disease or remedial care of such child.
2. Nothing contained in this subsection shall prevent a court from immediately assuming custody of a child, pursuant to the Oklahoma Children's Code, and ordering whatever action may be necessary, including medical treatment, to protect the child's health or welfare.
F. Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to exempt or prohibit any person from reporting any suspected child abuse or neglect pursuant to subsection A of this section.

[Therealsouthsider]

....if by retire, they mean being helped up onto a railroad car on a train headed to hell, then yeah, he's retiring


ss

[nighttrain12]

Ill be surprised if the dont cancel the Game

That wouldn't be fair to all the players on both teams.

[olevetonahill]

That wouldn't be fair to all the players on both teams.

Never said it would be. Just that I wouldnt be surprised. If the croweds keep acting stupid it may happen

[S008NER]

Just talked with my cousin and this is one of the most serious riots that they have ever had. The reports of hundreds rioting are incorrect, more like thousands. Also reports of injured police who have been hit by throw objects.

[Widescreen]

I don't understand how you can walk in on something like that and then walk away wondering what to do. I'll grant that he was shocked, but get over that within a few seconds and INTERVENE.

[WileyCoyote]

WTF is in the water in "Happy Valley" !?! This WHOLE thing redefines FUBAR.
I have a feeling this is half-time or maybe just the end of the 1st Qtr of this game.

(BTW, common sense tells me that 1999 (or whenever) is not when this Sandusky perv was started his run. He, most likely didnt wake up and just decide to start molesting kidsin 1999. There probably was/is a long history of dirty secrets going back on this guy. So we really dont know how deep this water is.)

Stay tuned....

[Widescreen]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7214791/penn-state-scandal-tv-van-gets-flipped-joe-paterno-riots-turn-violent


At his house, Paterno said: "Right now, I'm not the coach. And I've got to get used to that. After 61 years, I've got to get used to it. I appreciate it. Let me think it through."

His wife, Sue, was teary-eyed as she blew kisses to about 100 students on the lawn. "You're all so sweet. And I guess we have to go beat Nebraska without being there. We love you all. Go Penn State," she said.
I guess Joe thinks he might get reinstated. And his wife's main concern is PSU football. Nice.

[BigJerm7]

Letting an old guy (that I wouldn't put in charge of a freakin picnic) run a $50 million organization only because he is a legend is a horrible decision. He should have retired 20 years ago.....and/or someone with some sense should have fired him back then.

Agreed. I wouldn't even be a passenger in a car this dude was driving.

2 Championships in 50 years. I don't see what the big deal was about this guy and why they held on so long. I know championships aren't everything, but I know sometimes people get anxious that Stoops has only won one. Makes me even more thankful to be a Sooner.

[Sooner95]

Good move.

[royalfan5]

That wouldn't be fair to all the players on both teams.

That's why if the game isn't played, it should be a Penn State forefit. That's more fair.

[FaninAma]

Guzziguy,

Then the teacher who reported the suspected child abuse to you instead of DHS violated the law. According to your interpretation of the statute he or she should have called DHS first before going to you and failing to do so should cause he or she to be terminated. Right? That's the standard you are holding Paterno to.

And are you or your attorneys now confering with this teacher so he or she knows what actions are being taken so if the actions do not meet her satisfaction she can go take other actions?

Exactly how involved do you want your staff to be involved on a day to day basis with legal matters?
How about when the case isn't so clear and the signs are subtle? Are you going to support teachers, and janitors and anybody who works at the school going to DHS with ANY suspicion of child abuse or are you going to want them to come to you first?

And if you want them to go directly to DHS instead of coming to you have you informed your staff of this policy? After all, that is your interpretation of the statute. Your subordinztes should never come to you first with hteir suspicions. If not, you are not fulfilling your duties under the statute.

[AlbqSooner]

If I were a Nebraska football player I would not feel safe going into that game and winning.

Someone posted that JoePa should be presented to the Grand Jury. He was. They did not indict.

[sooneron]

The crime in question happened on University propert and Sandusky was given emeritus status by Penn State so you are wrong and he was affiliated with the university.

By all means, if it makes you feel better to draw and quarter an 84 year old man for mistakes in judgemtn he made by following what was probably university policy then be my guest.
I read that he was basically a volunteer to the program.

And yes, please feel free to put words in my mouth as to what I think should have been done with Paterno. Whereas, I stated that I was not sure if he should be prosecuted. Yeah, but go ahead and lie and run with that. Contrarian D*****.

[Soonerborn03]

Add Content

[soonerloyal]

Why on earth should the Penn State football players be punished for any of this - especially by forfeiture of the Saturday game? They've done nothing wrong; indeed, they have earned their success this season by getting it done on the field. For heaven's sake - some people need to calm down and think things through. It's simply illogical and overreactive to punish these student athletes, especially for non-football-related transgressions done by staff, admins, LEOs and other students.

[FaninAma]

Volunteers are considered a part of your organization, ron. If you don't think so go talk to a hospital who uses them.

The reason a large entity like Penn State has legal dpartments and employs armies of legal staff and attorneys is so they can deal with issues like these instead of forcing individual employees to do so.

And I guarantee you once these issues are turned over to legal thye never know what specific actions were taken.

Technically everyone who fails to report suspected child abuse directly to DHS is in violation of the statute but if every person who instead reported to a superior or othr third person were fired there would be a lot of unemployed people. And if the environment at a large institution fosters the attitude that you are on your own and you should go directly to enforcement agencies then at some point one of your employees is going to file a false or unsupportable claim and your organization is going to be held accountable by opposing attorneys.

The system no doubt failed. The higher ups and legal department at Penn Dtate sgould be held accountable. crucifying Joe Paterno is just vindictive and a witch hunt, IMO.

[jkjsooner]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7214791/penn-state-scandal-tv-van-gets-flipped-joe-paterno-riots-turn-violent

And his wife's main concern is PSU football. Nice.

Life does go on. You can't preceed every single comment with "we just pray for the kids." That's an impossible expectation.

Say what you want about Paterno's inaction here but it's a little unfair to take every single statement/sentence and criticize them for not being "concerned for the children." They have said they are concerned for the children many times. (You can choose to believe that or not.) What you seem to be asking for is simply impossible.

Paterno and his wife are going to utter hundreds of thousands of sentences the rest of their lives. Not every one is going to reference the victims of this incident. You're just going to have to get over it.

Note: This is not a general defense of Paterno.

[jkjsooner]

Agreed. I wouldn't even be a passenger in a car this dude was driving.

2 Championships in 50 years. I don't see what the big deal was about this guy and why they held on so long. I know championships aren't everything, but I know sometimes people get anxious that Stoops has only won one. Makes me even more thankful to be a Sooner.

He did have several undefeated years w/o a championship so the championship count isn't completely fully under his control.

[marfacowboy]

LASooner's right, and it hadn't really dawned on me, but this has to be the worst scandal in college football history...at least my lifetime.

Worst sports story ever. Certainly the biggest scandal since SMU and morally, it's one billion times worse. This makes the Black Sox scandal look like a third page story.

[delhalew]

Guzziguy,

Who first informed you of the alleged abuse? Was it a subordinate? Do you instruct your subordinates to go directly to the police or DHS without your knowledge or do you instruct them to go up the chain of command when dealing with legal issues? If you do have a subordinate thuat disagrees with your decision on a legal matter I assume that you are okay with them going outside the chain of command and over your head when they disagreee with how you are handling the situation. You even admit how stressful the action was that you took. And there is nothing that guarantees you the parents won't hire an attorney who will do everything in his or her power to discredit you. Take my word for it as somebody who has dealt with dozens of these cases over the years. I have had multiple attorneys try to discredit my report and testimony as well threaten me personally with legal action for libeling their clients.

I have never claimed that the Penn State heirarchy didn't fail these kids or fail their moral and legal duty. i strongly disagree that the majority of the failure lies at the feet of Joe Paterno.

I applaud the way you handled the situation with the child and family in your story. You, as opposed to Paterno's superiors, did the right thing. But why did the person who reported the situation to you not go di
rectly to the police or DHS? Why did they report it to you? Is that the policy of the school? Did you talk to your legal office prior to contacting DHS? Again, you took the right action but don't pretend it isn't more complicated than picking up a phone and making a call or that the school you work for doesn't have a po
licy and procedure for instituting a legal action like you did. I guarantee you if there are legal repurcussions that come back on the school they will hang you out to dry if you didn't follow correct policy and procedure.

I point these things out so people understand how tough these situations are. Doing the right thing is not always as easy as you think and sometimes you have to walk that line all by yourself. Not eferybody is prepared to do that and they take the easy way out. Joe Paterno took the easy way out and it cost him but as somebody who has walked that line by myself I can put myself in his shoes and understand why he left it up to his superiors in his chain of command.

One other thing....Herr scholz, you are a flippin' idiot.

I've heard enough. Your mentality is our biggest problem in this country. A lawyer will always advise you to CYA over doing the right thing.

Your heart will tell you what is right. If want to be able to look at yourself in the mirror without puking, you better do what's right.

This is the take away. This is what we SHOULD be learning from this. No doubt many of us will waste this opportunity.

[soonersam]

Is very sad to see him go out like this but its the only choice the U had... You cant hide the abuses of young ones when youre a institution for educating young ones!

Jo Pa is at fault for not making sure it was handled and for ever looking that ****** bag in the face again. He allowed him on campus and around even after he knew!!!

[AlboSooner]

The tremendous support shown for Paterno which ironically means "fatherly" in Italian, demonstrates that if Paterno had wanted that monster investigated, he would have gotten his wish. Paterno has such an influence that could have even gotten Sandusky castrated, had he not cowered in his shameful inaction.

PSU has gone in a matter of a few days, from a highly regarded institution, to a shameful entity that would cover up any crime for football glory. What PSU did, is far far worse than any other NCAA scandal by other school. For example, the OSU tattoo violation seems like a walk in park compared to what happened at Penn State.

Also, the image of the Big 10 has taken a tremendous hit.

[FaninAma]

BTW, ron, your name calling belies the raw emotional level on which you are operating. I suspect you have never found yourself in a situation like Paterno did.

The media is in a feenzy. The public is in a frenzy even though they don't know the entire story and background and they want blood. The Penn State trustees, like the gutless cowards they are, are going to give them what they want when in fact it was their board that approved the policies and procedures under which Paterno was operating.

By all means, clean house but these @$$wipes should also resign and accept their share of the blame for what happened. But they won't and I doubt you see anybody going after the legal department at Penn State. Why is that? why aren't you calling for their heads? They had the same 3rd party information Paterno had plus they are trained to deal with these matters and get paid well to do so.

[AlboSooner]

I wonder what Paterno would have done if McQueery had told him, "hey I saw Sandusky raping your grandchild in the showers." Might he have acted differently?

It's all good to make statements vicariously, but the issue changes when the victim is your relative.

[SoonerMarkVA]

OK. I guess I'm easy to attack because I'm a Horn fan. I simply disagree with your opinion. I think the guy deserves to be prosecuted. He let boys get raped by a monster.

Horn or no horn, I agree. There is no excuse for anyone who was aware not to pursue this with the authorities. The GA was especially sick as he could have intervened on behalf of a helpless child, which should have superseded whatever discomfort or uncertainty he felt.

[delhalew]

Take the hint America. If you learn someone is in trouble DO MORE. Personallly invest yourself in making sure the defenseless are protected. Never walk away.

[AlboSooner]

Did Sandusky pimp out kids to rich donors?
http://audio.weei.com/a/48513214/mark-madden-talks-about-the-penn-state-scandal-and-drops-a-new-bomb-about-jerry-sandusky.htm

[WileyCoyote]

When confronted with immeadiate "life or death" situations instinctive behavior takes over. There isnt time to think or deliberate. "Fight or flight" kicks in. Courage or cowardice shows itself.

For the kid in the shower that McQueery (sic) came upon, it was a "life or death" situation as far as I am concerned. McQueery instinctively failed. He was a pathetic coward. He knows it and will carry that mental baggage the rest of his life.

Nobody can convince me that, no matter how much all the consequences were weighed and the compromises were discussed after that, the guys (Joe Pa included) who were informed had no idea how to handle it. So they did nothing. Not to decide, is to decide.

I have no sympathy for anyone in this except the victims. Not one ounce, no matter how it is "spun".

[sooneron]

BTW, ron, your name calling belies the raw emotional level on which you are operating. I suspect you have never found yourself in a situation like Paterno did.

The media is in a feenzy. The public is in a frenzy even though they don't know the entire story and background and they want blood. The Penn State trustees, like the gutless cowards they are, are going to give them what they want when in fact it was their board that approved the policies and procedures under which Paterno was operating.

By all means, clean house but these @$$wipes should also resign and accept their share of the blame for what happened. But they won't and I doubt you see anybody going after the legal department at Penn State. Why is that? why aren't you calling for their heads? They had the same 3rd party information Paterno had plus they are trained to deal with these matters and get paid well to do so.

BTW, my name is not ron. Do you see two R's in sooneron? No. I've been on this board as long as you have (long time) and yet, you don't know that. Not that I care anyway...

First of all, I think anyone that was involved in this AD dept to the legal people that had knowledge of this should be fired. Joe is the main figure in all of this besides Sandusky- and my issue is partially with the 02 story, the rest of my disdain for Paterno has to do with the fact that he still allowed Sandusky to bring kids to the facilities and to team functions, including to the hotel where the team was staying as recently as 2007. You don't see anything wrong with that? Not only did Joe see nothing wrong with this given what he had been told in 02 AND probably 98, is beyond me. How McQueary could stand to be anywhere in the same town, let alone the same football facility, after witnessing what he did is also beyond me. To me, that is culpability and it points to the fact that either Joe covered up the mess beginning back in 98 or 02 or he is totally senile and has been for a decade now. Either way, he needed to be fired, as does anyone that swept this under the rug. Do I think he should be prosecuted? As I have PLAINLY (once again) stated I am not sure if he should be. Therefore, I am not calling for him being "drawn & quartered" as you so falsely stated.He is going to be named in lawsuits and probably should be.

[olevetonahill]

Joe Pa was a term of respect he has lost that respect
He is henceforth just paterno ( NO caps)

[sooneron]

So sayeth the shepherd! :D

[FaninAma]

On,

Sincerest apologies on the name confusion.

Paterno didn't allow Sandusky to do anyhting. You obviously have no clue how a large organization like Penn State operates. If the administration didn't want Sandusky around he wouldn't be around.

Criticize Paterno for not living up to a higher moral standard. That's fine. But focus your anger on those who make the decisions and set he policy. And I can assure you its n
ot an 84 year old figure head coach. And don't tell me Paterno didn't follow Penn State policy.

I guarantee you Bob Stoops would follow whatever policy OU has in place for dealing with this situation. Would he have gone over his ADs and administration contact's repecti
ve heads if he saw nothing was happening? I hope he would but I would understand if he didn't.

I hope everbody who is outraged by this will take it upon themselves to be more aggressive about reporting suspected child abuse directly to DHS or the police. it will make my job a lot, lot easier. But somehow I suspect that doesn't happen becuase the sad fact is when faced with this daunting responsibility most people are going to pass the buck on to a doctor, or a superior, or a teacher and allow them to do the heavy lifting. That's just human nature. And I understand that and I understand what my role is........but it doesn't make the decisions any easier.

I will await a thread that excoriates Penn State's administration, the campus police who investigated Sandusky in 1998, Sandusky's charitable organization and even the Dhs in Pennsylvania who I can assure you received a report about Sandusky at somepoint in the past 15 years.

[winout]

Coach Paterno just got his record-setting 409th victory last Saturday right? Was the revelation of these charges held until he broke the record? I heard on local sports radio that the press might be complicit because they knew of these charges for awhile. This is very interesting.

[olevetonahill]

Ron,

Paterno didn't allow Sandusky to do anyhting. You obviously have no clue how a large organization like Penn State operates. If the administration didn't want Sandusky around he wouldn't be around.

Criticize Paterno for not living up to a higher moral standard. That's fine. But focus your anger on those who make the decisions and set he policy. And I can assure you its not an 84 year old figure head coach.

I think you are way Underestimating the Power he had there. They wanted him to Retire years ago , He told em to **** off dip ****s . He would retire when HE was ready

[olevetonahill]

If they were gonna do that they would have waited till the end of the season

[marfacowboy]

He's still listed as the head coach on their website. That McQueary guy is the recruiting coordinator? You know that's not going to last.

[sooneron]

I'd be willing to wager that Sandusky didn't pay for his room that he shared with the kid. I'd call that "facilitating" if you have knowledge of prior "issues". Not to mention a police investigation, an eye witness account, and what was probably a forced resignation along with a signed "I promise not to shower with little boys anymore" proclamation. You don't think that a lawyer is going to bring that up at trial?
I never have said that the system is awesome and it works, it stinks, but people can circumvent the system if they feel it's necessary and a life may be at stake. Would paterno have lost his job for this? Given the state of the team back in 02-05, possibly, but by doing nothing since 02 (bare minimum), he may as well have given his blessing afterwards when he watched the sick **** continue parading the kids to campus.

[sooneron]

I think you are way Underestimating the Power he had there. They wanted him to Retire years ago , He told em to **** off dip ****s . He would retire when HE was ready

Yep, this. He could have practically made policy as he had seen fit with the juice that he had.

[Veritas]

I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm hoping that Bo and Tom decide that the exposing the players and fans to this environment is not worth the physical risk.

What do you guys think? I'm obviously emotionally attached to the Husker program so I'm interested in your 3rd party opinions.

[sooneron]

Yeah, if they had a boner for him and his record that much, they would have let him finish the season.

[BigTip]

Penn-itration State.

State Pen State

[sooneron]

I wouldn't worry about it. My guess is that there will be a HUGE police presence at BS on Saturday.

[badger]

It was the grand jury arrests that happened this week though that prompted all of this at once, correct? The timing might have nothing to do with the media.

[AlboSooner]

When confronted with immeadiate "life or death" situations instinctive behavior takes over. There isnt time to think or deliberate. "Fight or flight" kicks in. Courage or cowardice shows itself.


Fight or flight is not about cowardice or bravery. It is purely an autonomous response fueled by epinephrine and other hormones which puts your body in a very stressful physiological situation. It's not possible to control fight or flight. Cowardice and bravery are conscious decisions. They are the outcome of coherent thoughts.

McQueery's cowardice was as a result of a series of conscious decisions: he valued his job more than doing the right thing and calling the cops. The same goes for the janitors who witnessed a similar scene in the showers.

[badger]

I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm hoping that Bo and Tom decide that the exposing the players and fans to this environment is not worth the physical risk.

What do you guys think? I'm obviously emotionally attached to the Husker program so I'm interested in your 3rd party opinions.

I'm sorry that it has to be your program to go to that madhouse right after this all happened... but at the same time, you guys are the ones that wanted to be in the Big Ten rather than the Big 12. If you stayed here, you might be playing us this weekend instead.

[AlboSooner]

I guarantee you Bob Stoops would follow whatever policy OU has in place for dealing with this situation. Would he have gone over his ADs and administration contact's repecti
ve heads if he saw nothing was happening? I hope he would but I would understand if he didn't.

Unless you are Stoops, you can't guarantee anything, and you are engaging in some serious overreaching.

[badger]

Fight or flight is not about cowardice or bravery. It is purely an autonomous response fueled by epinephrine and other hormones which puts your body in a very stressful physiological situation. It's not possible to control fight or flight. Cowardice and bravery are conscious decisions. They are the outcome of coherent thoughts.

McQueery's cowardice was as a result of a series of conscious decisions: he valued his job more than doing the right thing and calling the cops. The same goes for the janitors who witnessed a similar scene in the showers.

And this was before the great recession. Can you imagine what people are doing now to cling to their jobs? I'd hope that we all would do the right thing if faced with difficult job-or-doing-what's-right decisions... but what's "right" is all a certain point of view to some people, I guess. :(

[colleyvillesooner]

I'm sorry that it has to be your program to go to that madhouse right after this all happened... but at the same time, you guys are the ones that wanted to be in the Big Ten rather than the Big 12. If you stayed here, you might be playing us this weekend instead.

http://files.sharenator.com/original_Always_remember_the_snipe-s140x140-146970-580.gif

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I posted this on my facebook last night but I'll post it here also

If I paid $20,000 to send my kid to college and saw them chanting in support of Paterno on TV, they would be having a lot of fun at the local junior college the next semester

[Soonerfan88]

The grand jury investigation has been going on since 2009 I believe. It's what finally forced Sandusky out of the charity in 2010. It's been known about in the area for some time but no one wanted to talk about it publicly. This is a good interview with someone well connected to Penn State.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqa9OvJvx2I

[Soonerus]

No way could the press hold anything...

[delhalew]

Uhhgg. Just make it stop...
http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

[stoops the eternal pimp]

dear lowered

[SoonerMarkVA]

Uhhgg. Just make it stop...
http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

I think the question of whether Sandusky is a depraved monster who preys on children is settled. The more disturbing question now to be answered is, how widespread was the knowledge, and how much were people willing to cover up to protect the image of PSU and glorify its football program? Madden sure seems to suggest a *lot* was known and ignored.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm hoping that Bo and Tom decide that the exposing the players and fans to this environment is not worth the physical risk.

What do you guys think? I'm obviously emotionally attached to the Husker program so I'm interested in your 3rd party opinions.

I have to agree..No way is this a safe environment

[sooneron]

The grand jury investigation has been going on since 2009 I believe. It's what finally forced Sandusky out of the charity in 2010. It's been known about in the area for some time but no one wanted to talk about it publicly. This is a good interview with someone well connected to Penn State.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqa9OvJvx2I
Wow

[BrockLanders]

Get a rope.


Uhhgg. Just make it stop...
http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Penn State presser said that McQueary will be coaching Saturday..Not sure if from the field or booth yet....idiots

[Soonerfan88]

Then PSU didn't show anything by firing Paterno & president and deserve all the backlash they get. If you let one of them stay, might as well keep them all IMO. McQueary actually witnessed the crime and did nothing. Paterno had more power & credibility in that state than the governor and did nothing. I'm just disgusted.

Oh BTW, all those janitors need to be fired too.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Completely agree '88..

[sooneron]

yep.

[En_Fuego]

Last night I was thinking I watched a show on TV about something similar to the events of this scandal. And then it hit me, Law & Order SVU. I googled the episode and found this.;

"Normally, Law & Order: SVU rips its stories from the headlines after they actually take place in the real world. But could it be possible that just this once, SVU predicted a scandal before it broke? Regular viewers may be struck by the similarities between the horrifying child abuse allegations against former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky—accusations that legendary coach Joe Paterno knew about—and the crime tackled in the recent SVU episode "Personal Fouls." Here's the preview:

http://gothamist.com/2011/11/09/did_law_order_svu_predict_the_joe_p.php

While it's close, sadly this story really was ripped from the headlines. It's based on Coach Bob Oliva from Christ the King H.S.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I will be honest..I know these players on the PSU team have nothing to do with any of this, but I will openly be pulling for the Huskers Saturday...

[badger]

I have to agree..No way is this a safe environment

I just don't see how Nebrasky gets outta this game. If there was a terrorist event, perhaps. If there were more than two arrests and an overturned media minivan, perhaps. If somebody actually died and the whole campus was in mourning (rather than just acting like he died and wasn't fired), then maybe.

I won't be so bold as to say that Nebraska should have known somewhat what they were getting into when going to the Big Ten with their lengthy coaching tenures, crazy huge stadiums and alumni bases, couch burnings and control freak presidents/athletic directors/coaches/boosters. Something that Penn State has gone through recently can't be predicted. However, they had to know that the Big Ten would be different than the Big 12.

When I watch this video (with headphones, it's NSFW language), I can picture this happening to Nebraska fans in their red jerseys visiting State College:

jDiRPUiQZHc

And that is with JoePa not being fired!

These are the types of environments they were getting into when they got into the Big Ten, even without what just happened.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

So going back and looking at some other things, this is a comment that Paterno made about a Florida State player who was sent home before playing PSU in the Orange Bowl whever allegations of rape were raised:


“There’s some tough—there’s so many people gravitating to these kids. He may not have even known what he was getting into, Nicholson. They knock on the door; somebody may knock on the door; a cute girl knocks on the door. What do you do?”

[stoops the eternal pimp]

This should kill recruiting for about a decade...

Especially considering McQueary is the recruiting coordinator

[OULenexaman]

was the recruiting coordinator....

[badger]

Especially considering McQueary is the recruiting coordinator

He'll be the next one to be fired. This is far from over.

On a sidenote, I decided to see if the Internet fan reaction matched the ESPN videos they've been showing... there are Penn Staters comparing this situation to Hitler and Soviet Russia. One even said that Saturday's game should bring fans together like Marshall in the 70s. Ho-ly crap, Penn State. Get off your effing high horse and stop pretending to be victims.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

When I read or hear them say "Prayers for the victims" or "First let's remember the victims", they sound like Ricky Bobby saying "With all due respect"

[OULenexaman]

I'm thinking this will be a great game to watch....no telling what kind of moronic **** some of these kids will try and pull off.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Oh I bet the ratings will be off the charts

[marfacowboy]

I figure Nebraska is going to put a pretty good whipping on them. They're going to be in a nasty mood anyway, after losing to Northwestern.That assistant better hope he's in the press box. I can't imagine the police presence at the game. It's going to be a circus.

[soonerboomer93]

http://www.timesonline.com/columnists/sports/mark_madden/madden-sandusky-a-state-secret/article_863d3c82-5e6f-11e0-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html

Article about this stuff, from back in April

[BigJerm7]

No, he didn't. Penn State, like any other large state or federal institution, has a policy for handling legal issues that occur within the institution. As an employee of one of these institutions you are required to follow their policies on legal matters. It involves contacting your chain of command who should in turn contact the legal department.

Now you can argue that Paterno should have followed up on his report and gone over the head of the person or persons above him but that is a very treacherous road to go down. You better be prepared to look for another job when you do it. And I get the point that Paterno carried enough clout he could have forced the issue a lot more than he did. But he has also been an employee of this institution for over 60 years. He probably trusted his superiors to do the right thing.

One other thing, if you go outside policy and procedure of your employer and there are legal ramifications or fallout from it you better not count on your employer to stand behind you as you defend yourself from the legal counterattack whether it is justified or not.

We all hope we would have done more than Paterno did if faced with the same situation. The ugly truth is if you truly undertand the road you are about to travel down it is not hard to understand why he didn't. I honestly hope every single one of you who hopes he suffers as much as possible for his error does better when faced with a similiar situation.

Funny thing about being human, sometimes we don't do the right thing even though we have the best of intentions.

Can you point me in the direction of any policy or law that says you can't report the sexual assault of a child to the police before you tell your boss? What if you tell your boss and he doesn't do anything?

So Paterno keeping his job was more important than reporting sexual abuse of a child?

[cccasooner2]

I will be honest..I know these players on the PSU team have nothing to do with any of this, but I will openly be pulling for the Huskers Saturday...

In light of all the stuff that has come out and is still coming out, I find it hard to believe PSU just does not forfit the entire season. Pulling for a victor in a PSU/Nebraska game is ridiculous.

[En_Fuego]

I read in the Grand Jury Report where Sandusky had taken some of the kids to his Church...........WTF

How could someone that rapes and abuses children come close to a church. Makes me sick.


"Sandusky took the boy to restaurants, swimming at a Hotel near Sandusky's home, and to church."

[sooneredaco]

[QUOTE=En_Fuego;3395032]I read in the Grand Jury Report where Sandusky had taken some of the kids to his Church...........WTF

How could someone that rapes and abuses children come close to a church. Makes me sick. [QUOTE]

I don't know.... I'd ask the Catholic Church though they seem to have done it for some time

[Soonerwake]

I think you are way Underestimating the Power he had there. They wanted him to Retire years ago , He told em to **** off dip ****s . He would retire when HE was ready

I have said that about 25 times today. Joe Paterno IS Penn State. Period... He was asked to resign in 2004, and said no. Yet, nothing happened. How many coaches in the NCAA could get away with that? The answer... one - Joe Paterno.

Sandusky was investigated in 1998, retired in 1999 at pretty much the top of his game. I can't see how Paterno didn't know about it. In fact, I would bet that the "retirement" was arranged and Paterno would have been in the middle of it. The incident in 2002 - Paterno was told about it the next day. Whether it was categorized as rape, or fondling, or touching, or whatever is irrelevant. Sandusky is a piece of crap and yet noone did anything. And, Joe knew, yet he (Sandusky) was allowed to continue to be around the program. Paterno knows more than we are being told and deserves to be fired for being an enabler. I say fire them all - administration, coaches, etc..

[OUNASH]

Penn State needs to call it a season, clean house of its coaching staff and start over. The coaching staff is a close nit unit and you can't tell me that most of them did not have some knowledge of what was going on. They also need to take any revenues from their TV contracts and split it among the victims of these horrible crimes. Let the players transfer without having to sit out a year. I think this is the only way Penn State can truly begin to right any wrong doing.

[freshchris05]

I'm sorry that it has to be your program to go to that madhouse right after this all happened... but at the same time, you guys are the ones that wanted to be in the Big Ten rather than the Big 12. If you stayed here, you might be playing us this weekend instead.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_l2VT7bYUEaY/TILco0svy1I/AAAAAAAAFgY/iyfTuBLny0E/s1600/now-run-tell-dat.jpg

[OULenexaman]

In light of all the stuff that has come out and is still coming out, I find it hard to believe PSU just does not forfit the entire season. Pulling for a victor in a PSU/Nebraska game is ridiculous. yeah right.....PSU is 8-1 and 5-0 conference.....only loss is to Bama. They are not gonna throw in the towel.

[OULenexaman]

oops....bad tip.

[BigTip]

oops....bad tip.

Too soon?



lol

[picasso]

I read in the Grand Jury Report where Sandusky had taken some of the kids to his Church...........WTF

How could someone that rapes and abuses children come close to a church. Makes me sick.
I think one would call it living in two different worlds.

[OULenexaman]

just sayin.....dat look like red card.:disgust:

[badger]

I don't know.... I'd ask the Catholic Church though they seem to have done it for some time

I think this Penn State case shows that pedophiles will put themselves in positions anywhere where children will trust them so that they can abuse that trust, whether it be a church, a non-profit or an athletic program.

[MichiganSooner]

This is so sad. To have a coach on the staff abusing young boys is totally shameful. Do not understand the grad student assistant not pursuing the whole episode and worst yet, accepting a permanent position on the staff. How he could work as an assistant coach knowing what he saw the defensive coordinator do to a child in the showers, is beyond me.

I just can't stop thinking about those boys; under pressure of pleasing a big-time coach at a big-time college; dreaming of playing for the Nittany Lions; probably being told, "this is what football players do with their coach if they want to play". Embarrassed to tell their parents or anyone else. This is awful.

[8timechamps]

I do not agree that Penn State should forfeit the remainder of the season. The players on the team should not be punished for what happened. However, my concern is for the Nebraska fans (or any opposing team fans that go to Happy Valley). For what ever reason, the PSU fans feel the need to be violent in response to this situation. Makes no sense to me, but then again, the whole thing is senseless.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Penn St Boards http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395

Interesting.

[Eielson]

I heard a rumor that Sandusky's 2nd Mile program may have been pimping out children to donors. This just keeps getting worse.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Thanks Flag.....It's amazing how powerful homerism is...

There should be rioting/anger because a 10 year old was raped, not because someone lost a job

[En_Fuego]

Thanks Flag.....It's amazing how powerful homerism is...

There should be rioting/anger because a 10 year old was raped, not because someone lost a job

Watching this unfold on TV just blows my mind. You have thousands of protesters wanting a Man reinstated for knowing of child rapes and molestation's........And then rumors (rumors of course) suggesting that these children were "Pimped Out" to donors. WTF is going on these days ?

[En_Fuego]

The one question in my mind is...........Why isn't this McQeeeeeeery dude fired. He was an eye witness.

[badger]

Penn St Boards http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395

Interesting.

Yeah, that's the forum I stole my meltdown crap from, the junk about Hitler and Soviet Russia. Yes, a few insane white-outs are comparing this situation to that :mad:

Here, since we already beat A&M anyway and hate them too:
aGtoaa9UKcs
zeZ-mT6Tlpc

[badger]

After JoePa lost earlier this year he said "They kicked the crap outta us. Anything else you wanna know?" He then yells at a reporter to get a hearing aid.

pMvjRdyZMFM

It really was time for him to go, even absent of this horrible situation. His team might only have one loss, but they aren't being talked up like an outside-title-contender-team like other one-loss teams are for a reason.

[EatLeadCommie]

yeah the one thing that stood out to me when I first started hearing about this was that the first allegation surface in 98 and in 99 Sandusky was told he wouldn't follow Paterno and that he should retire.

now this rumor about pimping out the kids...holy crap I hope that isn't true.

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

[sooneron]

And people are disgusted that he lost his job...

BFD.

[StoopTroup]

Good riddance.

[En_Fuego]

Good riddance.

Bad Riddance.....I know he's OLD ..........But he knew better.....Don't ya thank ?

[recemp]

Bet the Big XII is looking pretty good to Nebraska about now. Know a Husker fan headed for un-Happy Valley this weekend - a little nervous

[badger]

Bet the Big XII is looking pretty good to Nebraska about now. Know a Husker fan headed for un-Happy Valley this weekend - a little nervous

Nebrasky is looking good to the Big 12 too. Come back, Bugeaters! Let's both beat Texas again like the good ol' days!

[En_Fuego]

Nebrasky is looking good to the Big 12 too. Come back, Bugeaters! Let's both beat Texas again like the good ol' days!

And all of this crazy stuff happens on a conference realignment .........Imagine that ?

Nevermind......that was a stupid comment

[cccasooner2]

The one question in my mind is...........Why isn't this McQeeeeeeery dude fired. He was an eye witness.


That is not important, what is important is that PSU suffers the ultimate indiginty of losing a football game this weekend.

[badger]

That is not important, what is important is that PSU suffers the ultimate indiginty of losing a football game this weekend.

Since that is apparently all they care about :mad:

[MyT Oklahoma]

I saw that story regarding Sandusky pimping some of these victims out to big PSU boosters.. that's even more disgusting.

Penn State should be flushed down the toilet (and that's before 2,000 or so students rioted last night).

I also saw where some Bugeaters are worried about their game this weekend and I don't blame them. Not our problem though we're not in the Big 10.

[SoonerMom2]

Here is the link on the disgusting story of Sandusky pimping out young boys to wealth donors of the charity. Makes you ill: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/penn-state-scandal-rumors-sandusky-pimping_n_1086099.html?ref=sports&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%7C111562

[BeaSooner]

Fight or flight is not about cowardice or bravery. It is purely an autonomous response fueled by epinephrine and other hormones which puts your body in a very stressful physiological situation. It's not possible to control fight or flight. Cowardice and bravery are conscious decisions. They are the outcome of coherent thoughts.

McQueery's cowardice was as a result of a series of conscious decisions: he valued his job more than doing the right thing and calling the cops. The same goes for the janitors who witnessed a similar scene in the showers.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Well, actually you said it better than I might have.

[badger]

Switzer reacting to JoePa decision:

http://newsok.com/penn-state-tragedy-barry-switzer-says-joe-paterno-had-to-go/article/3621872?custom_click=lead_story_title

[cccasooner2]

Here's an article on the original prosecuting attorney.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45244328/ns/local_news-philadelphia_pa/

[BigTip]

yeah the one thing that stood out to me when I first started hearing about this was that the first allegation surface in 98 and in 99 Sandusky was told he wouldn't follow Paterno and that he should retire.

now this rumor about pimping out the kids...holy crap I hope that isn't true.

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/11/10/rumor-sandusky-pimped-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=CBS+Chicago%27s+Most+Popular+Sports+S tories

Geez! Now this selling the children thing is gathering steam. Like they needed any more horror to this.

[badger]

Here is the link on the disgusting story of Sandusky pimping out young boys to wealth donors of the charity. Makes you ill: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/10/penn-state-scandal-rumors-sandusky-pimping_n_1086099.html?ref=sports&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%7C111562

Not sure I trust the sources cited there... but absolutely horrible if true :(

[En_Fuego]

Barry Switzer knew Joe Paterno's career could end only one way.

Penn State football coach Joe Paterno, left, and University of Oklahoma football coach Barry Switzer share a laugh before the 1985 Orange Bowl. OKLAHOMA ARCHIVE PHOTO

MULTIMEDIA
VIDEOview all videos

Berry Tramel: Who's Minding the Store?
Nov 10Penn State University appeared to stable leadership. Then...

Press Row - 5 in 5: Legacy of Joe Paterno
Nov 10Joe Paterno has been fired following scandal at Penn...
PHOTOview all photos


Penn State tragedy: Barry Switzer says Joe Paterno had to go
RELATED CONTENT
DOCUMENTS
Read the Pennsylvania attorney general's summary of findings and recommended charges in the investigation of Jerry Sandusky (warning: contains graphic language)
View the document (warning: contains graphic language).
INTERACTIVE

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Accusations rock Happy Valley
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Once he saw the footage of the Penn State coach standing on his lawn, talking to reporters and admitting to the world that he should've done more, the former Oklahoma coach realized his fate was sealed. He would be forced out. He would be fired.
“I knew that it would come to this,” Switzer said.
It had to.
“They did the right thing at the university,” he said. “The university had to do this, and it was the right thing to do.”
He paused and sighed.
“It's a tragic, sad story. There are no winners here.”
He paused again.
“There are no winners at all.”
College athletics has never seen anything like what has unfolded this past week at Penn State. Heavens, sports has never seen anything worse. There has been no bigger scandal, no worse indignity. This goes beyond athletes trading memorabilia for tattoos or boosters taking recruits on ritzy harbor cruises or agents paying rent for a superstar's parents. This goes beyond trouble that has rocked Ohio State and Miami and USC and so many others. This even goes beyond the wild west days at Oklahoma.
Yes, those were ugly, awful times in Norman that forced Switzer out the door and embarrassed an entire state. But the details of what happened then don't make your skin crawl like the never ending news stream flowing these days from Happy Valley.
Ironically, it was Paterno who took aim at Switzer nearly three decades ago. He proclaimed that he wouldn't retire and “leave college football to the Jackie Sherrills and Barry Switzers of the world.” He quickly apologized to Switzer, and the two became friends in the years that followed.
Switzer even wrote extensively about Paterno in his book.
But no excuses — Paterno had to go.
“Having been in this profession a long time and knowing how close coaching staffs are, I knew that this was a secret that was kept secret,” Switzer said. “Everyone on that staff had to have known, the ones that had been around a long time.”
Those are chilling words. They are the most disturbing missives, not in a week filled with heinous reports and atrocious news, but read again what Switzer said. Everyone had to have known.
Everyone.
If that doesn't cause a chill to run up your spin, nothing will.
“You think that a 13-year assistant … hasn't told someone else?” Switzer said. “His wife? His father? People knew. The community knew.”
He's right, of course. State College is like many college towns, big enough to have the diversity of a larger city but small enough to have the familiarity of a tinier town. It is an idyllic setting for many folks.
But everybody tends to know everybody's business.
Much like Norman where people knew there were problems with the Sooner program before players started shooting guns off the dorm balcony, people in State College had to know something was amiss with Jerry Sandusky.
“There are more people culpable than just Joe Paterno and the athletic director,” Switzer said via telephone while traveling in Texas. “There are so many other people that have thought, ‘I could've done something about this, too' that didn't come forward. That's the tragedy of it.”
That is the tragedy. The adults who had the power to protect kids from a monster. The adults who passed the buck and expected someone else to take care of the problem. The adults who could've saved at least eight little boys from carrying the scars of sexual abuse for the rest of their lives.
And among those adults is Paterno, the man who'd been seen as one of sports' most honorable coaches at one of college football's most upstanding programs.
“There's no university immune to this,” Switzer said. “No one is immune to what happened at Penn State or what happened at Oklahoma. It happened years ago, and it'll happen years in the future.
“People make poor decisions, poor choices, and this is what can occur.”
But how?
How can such powerful programs and commanding coaches lose control like this?
“I'll tell you how it happens — it's the American sports phenomenon,” Switzer said. “I've seen it happen all my life; we've made coaches and players and athletes more than what we are. It's what happens in American sports. Because of that, they've gotten away with more than they should have.
“These students the other night, I watched ‘em occupy State College, and I thought, ‘They don't understand.' If they stopped and thought about … how many people were involved and knew this and did nothing, they just haven't lived long enough.
“And what they've done is try to support somebody the university can't support.”
No one knows better than Switzer how difficult it is to be forced out of a job that you love from a program that you built at a university that you champion. But he also knows that there was no other conclusion for Paterno.
Joe had to go.


Read more: http://newsok.com/penn-state-tragedy-barry-switzer-says-joe-paterno-had-to-go/article/3621872#ixzz1dLeaXy7m

[En_Fuego]

It's a done deal now......National News is up on the story.

[soonerloyal]

I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm hoping that Bo and Tom decide that the exposing the players and fans to this environment is not worth the physical risk.

What do you guys think? I'm obviously emotionally attached to the Husker program so I'm interested in your 3rd party opinions.

I'm going to say this again, and I hope it will be given careful consideration: There is absolutely no reason for either teams' players to be afraid because of, nor any reason for them to be punished for, events that they had absolutely no part in, or for which they are to blame. These student athletes have worked hard for the opportunity to play this game, and there isn't a single reason they shouldn't. The minority of students at Penn State out in the streets being violent are just that - a minority. The student leaders as well as faculty leaders have stated that the actions of a few are not the standard of the majority, and have called for upholding the standards of excellence for which their majority are known. I doubt that there will be anything for fans or players to fear, except fear itself.

Put the investigative and punitive part of this away from the field and let the kids play the game.

[En_Fuego]

nevermind

[SoonerMarkVA]

Here's an article on the original prosecuting attorney.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45244328/ns/local_news-philadelphia_pa/

Wow. Just wow.

I mean, how horrifically ugly can this thing get? At this point, can you afford to dismiss this possibility as so outlandish? Did the cover-up possibly include murder?

I don't know what to think about what's possible up there. All I know is, everything I thought about uterus sweeping things under the rug with local support is mere child's play.

[cleller]

This pimping rumor will REALLY get some of the fringe areas of the media into a dither.

The only way I can try to understand the thing is by plugging in names from our program in place of the players here. Now, that's not a fun thing to dwell on, but it helps illustrate how tough it is to sever close, old ties.
But, considering what was going on, I still can't imagine anyone tuning it out, and tacitly allowing it to continue the way it did at Penn State.

Geez why couldn't this guy just be chasing call girls, gambling, drinking, trading mortgage backed securities, etc?

[jkjsooner]

I also saw where some Bugeaters are worried about their game this weekend and I don't blame them. Not our problem though we're not in the Big 10.

I don't get this. What exactly are they afraid of? Does anyone honestly think that students are going to attack NU fans because their coach got fired? It doesn't make sense to me.

[jkjsooner]

Wow. Just wow.

I mean, how horrifically ugly can this thing get? At this point, can you afford to dismiss this possibility as so outlandish? Did the cover-up possibly include murder?

I don't know what to think about what's possible up there. All I know is, everything I thought about uterus sweeping things under the rug with local support is mere child's play.

My goodness. This guy prosecuted hundreds of criminals. There are many people who might want to get back at him. There is absolutely no evidence that his disappearance had anything to do with this case.

This is simply irresponsible journalism.

[8timechamps]

I don't get this. What exactly are they afraid of? Does anyone honestly think that students are going to attack NU fans because their coach got fired? It doesn't make sense to me.

Did you see the riots last night? Not only that, but Penn State is pretty notorious for being really tough for visiting fans. I'm not saying they shouldn't go, I'd just be very careful if it were me. The people (mostly students) up there are not in their right minds at this point in time.

[SoonerMom2]

ESPN NCAAF - MSNBC reports former Penn State coach Joe Paterno has hired a criminal defense lawyer

[cleller]

Did you see the riots last night? Not only that, but Penn State is pretty notorious for being really tough for visiting fans. I'm not saying they shouldn't go, I'd just be very careful if it were me. The people (mostly students) up there are not in their right minds at this point in time.

NU fans are the Mother Teresa of college football. Hope those Yanks know that.

[8timechamps]

NU fans are the Mother Teresa of college football. Hope those Yanks know that.

Yep. I've been to Memorial Stadium (the one in Lincoln) many times, never had a bad experience.

[SoonerMom2]

Wow. Just wow.

I mean, how horrifically ugly can this thing get? At this point, can you afford to dismiss this possibility as so outlandish? Did the cover-up possibly include murder?

I don't know what to think about what's possible up there. All I know is, everything I thought about uterus sweeping things under the rug with local support is mere child's play.

I remember when that DA disappeared and they never found his car -- thought it was really strange and has been on some of the shows on unsolved crimes several times. Does make you wonder.

[A Sooner in Texas]

* Yes the school has/had a policy.

* A teacher brought the matter to my attention. If I'd been unresponsive or unavailable I would have expected her to contact law enforcement.

* As for the rest of your discussion, see # 4 in my list of outcomes at the end of my original post.

* I'm still in school administration, however at my current posting I'm not the superintendent. Given similar circumstances, my boss would take action similar to what I did. I have no doubt. If I thought differently I wouldn't have accepted the job. If strong, decisive, protective action wasn't taken in a similar set of circumstances, I would present myself to my boss and simply say, "The authorities will be called. Would you like to make the call or shall I."

* I have, in fact, quit a management job in education because of differences with my supervisor that were related to the safety of students and staff. I had money in my department budget to do a safety training and was told not to do it. The district at the time was desperately out of compliance on safety issues involving chemical storage, safety equipment and chemical documentation. They'd gotten that way because of training neglect. The dollars to make it right were very significant. I believe the district, through the actions of my superiors chose to keep the staff ignorant of their legal responsibilities so the needed repairs wouldn't be demanded. I couldn't continue in that position with a clear conscience so I resigned. My reasons for resigning were clearly stated in my resignation letter.

I believe that you must be willing to do what's best for those under you who have no control even if it has a large personal cost to you. Otherwise, well, I have no use for you.

In education, simply put, the good of the students are my first concern. After that, comes the staff. My personal comfort is at best 3rd.

Guzziguy, thank you for being the best kind of educator.

[cccasooner2]

..................... My personal comfort is at best 3rd.


WTF is wrong with you? This site is full of Walter Mitty types willing to put it all on the line, flushing body parts down drain pipes, saying prayers, and other stuff too. So, who do you think wins the game Saturday, PSU or NU, seriously?

[70sooner]

got a link on another board to a story about OU and PSU when they played in 85 and the following quote was in the article. I remember Miami wearing fatigues, but I don't remember OU ever players doing the same. Does anybody remember this?


When the National Championship game rolled around that season, the Orange Bowl featured the Sooners and the Nittany Lions. Living up to their reputations, Oklahoma sauntered off its airplane dressed in combat fatigues, ready to rock and roll. Penn State calmly walked from its airplane, dressed in suits, ready to fight for the integrity of college football.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ycn-10411815

[jkjsooner]

Did you see the riots last night? Not only that, but Penn State is pretty notorious for being really tough for visiting fans. I'm not saying they shouldn't go, I'd just be very careful if it were me. The people (mostly students) up there are not in their right minds at this point in time.

I saw a bunch of kids out in a party type atmosphere. As with all similar gatherings a few took it too far and turned over a van. This wasn't the Watts Riots.

Nothing I saw would give me any pause about attending a game there.

[soonerloyal]

The fella is wrong - it was Miami, the next year, that wore the "fatigues". His bad.

[jkjsooner]

got a link on another board to a story about OU and PSU when they played in 85 and the following quote was in the article. I remember Miami wearing fatigues, but I don't remember OU ever players doing the same. Does anybody remember this?


When the National Championship game rolled around that season, the Orange Bowl featured the Sooners and the Nittany Lions. Living up to their reputations, Oklahoma sauntered off its airplane dressed in combat fatigues, ready to rock and roll. Penn State calmly walked from its airplane, dressed in suits, ready to fight for the integrity of college football.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ycn-10411815

No, we did not do that. Is that a real article or one of those that anyone can write?

[Wishboned]

No, we did not do that. Is that a real article or one of those that anyone can write?

I think Bosworth actually talks about wearing fatigues when they got off the plane in his book.

[FaninAma]

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=7212054&hcId=7208723&topId=null

I find it interesting that a school reported abuse allegations against Sandusky in the spring of 2008 yet he wasn't arrested for over 3 years. You know they had the information from 1998 available yet it took 3 years? Really?

These are the same authorites Paterno is getting crucified for not contacting directly. Anybody want to comment on the fact it took them over 3 years to get the real criminal off of the streets?

The more information that comes out the more it looks like Paterno is being used as the scapegoat for the Penn State board of trustees, the state "authorities" in both 1998 a
nd 2008.

There is a lot of blame to go around. The biggest mistakes were made in order:

The DA who didn't file charges in 1998.

The university administrators and legal department who allowed Sandusky to remain affiliated with the university in 1998.

The state authorities who took 3 years to get Sandusky off the streets after they received the 2008 report.

The AD and PSU administation for their lack of action of reports they received in 2002.

Then comes Paterno and every other person who knew about this case somewhere during this 15 year wi
ndow and you know there were many.

Throw rocks at JoPa if you wish but save a few for these other parties of interst and be sure to include the state authorities who were the only people who had the power to put this guy away as early as 1998.

[sooneron]

No, we did not do that. Is that a real article or one of those that anyone can write?

Apparently anyone can write it. I could have sworn it was Skip that wrote it. It very easily could have started ... "Now, I remember the Orange Bowl in 1986, but first let me tell you that I am a true OU fan and always will be!"

[sooneron]

I think Bosworth actually talks about wearing fatigues when they got off the plane in his book.

I believe that Boz may have, but wearing fatigue pants was actually pretty popular backinnaday. I remember hitting the surplus store on Porter.

[picasso]

got a link on another board to a story about OU and PSU when they played in 85 and the following quote was in the article. I remember Miami wearing fatigues, but I don't remember OU ever players doing the same. Does anybody remember this?


When the National Championship game rolled around that season, the Orange Bowl featured the Sooners and the Nittany Lions. Living up to their reputations, Oklahoma sauntered off its airplane dressed in combat fatigues, ready to rock and roll. Penn State calmly walked from its airplane, dressed in suits, ready to fight for the integrity of college football.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ycn-10411815
That's wrong.

[SoonerMom2]

SAN ANTONIO -- Penn State's trip to the Alamo Bowl in 1999 has attracted the interest of Texas authorities amid allegations of child sex abuse involving a former assistant coach.

San Antonio police Sgt. Chris Benavides said Thursday his department is "looking into the possibility that an offense may have happened" while the football team was in town.

Former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky faces child sex abuse charges in Pennsylvania. A grand jury report says Sandusky took one boy he allegedly molested to the game and threatened to send him home when the victim resisted his advances.

The Alamo Bowl was Sandusky's last game at Penn State, where he coached for more than 30 years and was once the heir apparent to Joe Paterno. Paterno was fired for failing to do more about an abuse report involving Sandusky.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/16067514/texas-police-open-inquiry-into-expenn-state-coach

[8timechamps]

I saw a bunch of kids out in a party type atmosphere. As with all similar gatherings a few took it too far and turned over a van. This wasn't the Watts Riots.

Nothing I saw would give me any pause about attending a game there.

That's great that you wouldn't have any pause. Fortunately, you don't speak for everyone. Tom Osborn was worried enough to ensure that there would be additional security in place for the safety of the fans and team/coaches. Unless, of course, you know more about the situation.

And you must not have watched all of the coverage from last night, because there was a lot more than a "party atmosphere". Police, by rule, don't use pepper spray, tear gas and riot gear for a party.

Have you been around many Nebraska fans that travel? Many of them are not 20-30 year olds, that can hold there own if things were to get touchy.

[Wishboned]

I believe that Boz may have, but wearing fatigue pants was actually pretty popular backinnaday. I remember hitting the surplus store on Porter.

I went and dug up my copy of "The Boz" to see what he said.


Meanwhile, I got off the plane in army fatigues (a little number designed by Oscar de la ROTC). My buddy Paul Migliazzo wore a pair of jeans ripped from the cuff to the hip and held together by about a thousand safety pins. A lot of the guys wore some scary stuff, too, a lot of gold chains and $300 sweatsuits and Reeboks. And, of course shades-standard. Standing on the tarmac that day, we must've looked like we took a wrong turn at Hollywood and Vine. We were the exact kind of people your mother said not to hang out with. We were The Wrong Crowd.

Before that game, Joe jumped our case-especially my case-one day at a press conference, saying his players would never dress like that, be outrageous, say outlandish things, try to stand out.

[8timechamps]

I went and dug up my copy of "The Boz" to see what he said.

Paul Misliazzo...ah, the memories.

[Wishboned]

McQuery won't be coaching on Saturday...


STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP)—Penn State says assistant coach Mike McQueary won’t coach the Nittany Lions on Saturday because “multiple threats” have been made against him.

The university released a statement Thursday night saying it would be “in the best interest of all” if the receivers coach didn’t attend the game against Nebraska at Beaver Stadium.

The football program is in turmoil following the firing of longtime coach Joe Paterno, brought down in a scandal involving child sex-abuse allegations against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.

McQueary testified to a grand jury that he encountered Sandusky in the Penn State showers with a 10-year-old boy in 2002. He later told Paterno of the incident.

Sandusky was arrested and charged last Saturday. His lawyer maintains his client is innocent.


http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-pennstate-mcqueary

[AlboSooner]

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee483/albosooner/mj-pedo.gif

[70sooner]

I believe that Boz may have, but wearing fatigue pants was actually pretty popular backinnaday. I remember hitting the surplus store on Porter.


true, but OU never cultivated the thug mentality/fatigue thing as did Miami.

[FaninAma]

AGain, Paterno being forced to resign is fine but if this isn't really a witchhunt then here is a list of others who should resign or be fired:

Anybody still working at the local DA's office from 1998 that worked on the case. Everbody in the PSU administration and BoT that knew about the allegations in 1998 and 2002. Anybody in DHS that knew aboutthe allegations in 1998 and 2008 including the dirctor of those agencies and whoever oversees them in the state government. Everybody in the private sector who had knowledge of Sandusky's actions including those in the media, Happy Valley community and the 2nd Mile charity that failed to report him to DHS or failed to do more when they saw no action being taken.

Let's hold every single person who had knowledge about Sandusky to the same standard Paterno is being held to. Every Single Person.

[picasso]

Fan, I'm sure as more details come out more heads will roll. Why in all hell they didn't nip this in the bud when it first came to light is a mystery.

[OULenexaman]

A lot of folks will have a bad judgement day ahead of them.

[FaninAma]

Matt,

I agree totally. What I find distateful is the attempt to identify a few individuals by the media and higher-ups to use as sacrificial lambs in an attempt to protect themselves.

If you hold Paterno to a certain standard then hold every other person who had at least 2nd hand information about Sandusky to that same standard. If that standard is met I feel confident the unemployment rolls in Pennsylvania are about to swell.

And i would really like to hear more from sanctomonious state officials on why it took from 2008 to 2011 to arrest Sandusky after the school did make an official report to the appropriate authorities as well as what went into the decision to not file charges in 1998.

[Soonerjeepman]

I don't have a prob with Joe P being fired...he LET THIS A_HOLE use the campus facilities AFTER he was told what happened...

as a teacher I have to tell my boss (principal) first...if I suspect anything...and there is a fine line of going over the boss's head..BUT .the problem is he was told THAT SOMETHING HAPPENED there was no "suspecting" and didn't go any further...

all folks involved should be fired...can't believe McQueary had to "call my dad" he was frickin 30 yrs old...

[OULenexaman]

Ama.... you do know the DA from 98 is sleeping with the fishes. Coincedence??

[Wishboned]

AGain, Paterno being forced to resign is fine but if this isn't really a witchhunt then here is a list of others who should resign or be fired:

Anybody still working at the local DA's office from 1998 that worked on the case. Everbody in the PSU administration and BoT that knew about the allegations in 1998 and 2002. Anybody in DHS that knew aboutthe allegations in 1998 and 2008 including the dirctor of those agencies and whoever oversees them in the state government. Everybody in the private sector who had knowledge of Sandusky's actions including those in the media, Happy Valley community and the 2nd Mile charity that failed to report him to DHS or failed to do more when they saw no action being taken.

Let's hold every single person who had knowledge about Sandusky to the same standard Paterno is being held to. Every Single Person.


I completely agree. They all failed.

[FirstandGoal]

...And i would really like to hear more from sanctomonious state officials on why it took from 2008 to 2001 to arrest Sandusky after the school did make an official report to the appropriate authorities as well as what went into the decision to not file charges in 1998.

You know, its kinda hard as more info unfolds to pick out just one thing that is the most horrifying, but I think this might actually be the one thing for me.
As morally bankrupt as any and all in the AD were at the time, to find out that the mother****ing police for God's sakes were notified and then actually overheard a confession and then charges were ultimately decided not to be filed completely horrifies me.
I seriously don't even have the words to describe the feeling of complete betrayal in our justice system that this has caused for me.

[FaninAma]

Ama.... you do know the DA from 98 is sleeping with the fishes. Coincedence??

Yes, I did. I am sure there were a lot of people he prosecuted who had motive to do that. If you really want to put a tin foil hat on and try to relate it to this case then one would have to consider there was a coverup and the DA had to be part of that initially but then got cold feet.

Was Paterno culpable in this? Sure he was. But if a consistent standard is applied and the question is asked "why w
as Sandusky allowed to remain a free man so long" then there will be many dozens of culpable people that will have to answer for their inaction.

And if they are culpable then they need to pay the same price Paterno played.....loss of employment and incredible damage to their reputation.

[FirstandGoal]

Ama.... you do know the DA from 98 is sleeping with the fishes. Coincedence??

This seems a bit of a reach to me because of the timing of the whole thing.

[OULenexaman]

TIMING??? He vanished in 05.

[FirstandGoal]

TIMING??? He vanished in 05.

So he vanished 7 years after he dismissed the case. Lots of time in that 7 years for someone else to be pizzed off and take him out. I happen to think that his disappearance has nothing to do with the Penn State deal. But hey, I could be wrong.