OK Petro Geologists, is this a crazy earthquake conspiracy?

[cleller]

I just posted this thought elsewhere, but its burning a hole in my head.

I live just north or east of the epicenter of these recent quakes. About 2 weeks ago I posted a thread about a company coming out to the area doing a 3D Seismic Exploration. They are calling this The Wilzetta Project. As you may have heard the recent earthquakes have been along the Wilzetta Fault.

Wilzetta was the name of an old townsite in Lincoln County, just northwest of Prague. I ran into the crew doing the work on 10-31-11. They had just arrived in the area, and were looking around to decide where to get started. They told me the work would be done using dynamite. They drill a hole 80 feet deep, drop the charge, then record the findings. The first big quake happened about 5 days later.

My wife first suggested this, and I laughed it off, knowing that the quakes are triggered 2-3 miles deep. I don't want to sound like some kook, or the folks protesting fracking, it is funny timing, though

I'm sure it is all coincidental, there have been more quakes everywhere, but I have to ask if any conspiracy theorists out there can relate the two.

[Petro-Sooner]

I believe its coincidental. Very unlikely a source such as dynamite would trigger faulting. As for fraccing there have been no studies to my knowledge relating the two together but it wouldnt surprise me if there were some type of link. More so just mother nature doing her thing.

[Jacie]

There was a case where injection was causing earthquake activity. Now if I can remember any of the details, it was Colorado and the federal government was funding a study that involved liquid disposal underground, though I don't recall if this was for nuclear waste or something else. But once they started, small earthquaked began to occur in an area that had never experienced them. Seems the locals sued to get the government to stop or maybe they finished the study. For some reason I associate this with another government study involving nuclear detonations underground to stimulate oil flow from shale. Didn't they actually do one or two trials also in Colorado?

[pphilfran]

So....007 actually did save Silicon Valley in "A View to a Kill"

[BU BEAR]

I lived by lignite mines for most of my life. They used underground explosives--never any earthquake activity in the area.

[SoonerLVZ]

As for fraccing there have been no studies to my knowledge relating the two together but it wouldnt surprise me if there were some type of link. More so just mother nature doing her thing.

Here is an article from 11/2 (before the quakes)
http://www.eenews.net/public/eenewspm/2011/11/02/1

A previously unreported study out of the Oklahoma Geological Survey has found that hydraulic fracturing may have triggered a swarm of small earthquakes earlier this year in Oklahoma

[cleller]

If I want the government to pay me money for my trauma, will this thread have to move to the Obamafest forum?

[yermom]

Why would you drill that close to a fault?

[cleller]

Why would you drill that close to a fault?

I'll have to remember that one.

I'd guess they'd reply: Oil!

[yermom]

with my limited understanding of the way fault lines work, adding instability near a fault should make it easier to release the pent up energy, right?

[salth2o]

with my limited understanding of the way fault lines work, adding instability near a fault should make it easier to release the pent up energy, right?

It works with other things or so I've heard...

[Petro-Sooner]

Why would you drill that close to a fault?

Faults can act as a trap for oil and gas in a reservoir. I wish I had a diagram that shows how it works.

[yankee]

Fracking can cause a 5.6 magnitude earthquake? I find that hard to belive. A 5.6, especially in these parts, is nothing to sneeze at.

[yermom]

i wouldn't say it caused it, but expedited, i could see

[cleller]

I demand reparations, or at least counseling.

[Jacie]

Faults can act as a trap for oil and gas in a reservoir. I wish I had a diagram that shows how it works.

I was about to say, wells penetrate faults all the time.

[OUDoc]

I was about to say, wells penetrate faults all the time.
Is it getting hot in here?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I believe its coincidental. Very unlikely a source such as dynamite would trigger faulting. As for fraccing there have been no studies to my knowledge relating the two together but it wouldnt surprise me if there were some type of link. More so just mother nature doing her thing.

Earthquakes in the UK have reportedly been tied to fracking. Not sure if that is media hype or if there has been a scientific link...

[scotplum]

It appears that the injection wells that are used to eliminate the waste material from fracking is the real potential concern. There appears to be plenty of coincidental evidence (at the very least) that shows injection wells play a role in the events that lead to earthquakes. I don't believe that really is even up for debate but whether it can play a role in an earthquake as big as the one Saturday night is very much questioned.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/experts-okla-quakes-powerful-man-made-14900270#.Trki-WU4jgI

An industry-funded study into a 2.3-magnitude tremor in June near a fracking site in England linked the drilling activity to the quake, but it was a "worst case scenario" of fluid injection into the exact wrong place in a fault, said German geologist Stefan Baisch, lead author of the study.

But wastewater from hundreds of wells is often collected and disposed of deep underground through so-called injection wells. In Lincoln County, Okla., where the recent earthquakes hit, there are approximately 1,982 active oil and gas wells, according to Matt Skinner, spokesman for the state agency that oversees oil and gas production. There are 181 injection wells.

These wells pump wastewater often much deeper underground, all day and all night, for years. The weight and pressure from all of this fluid has been known to cause relatively large earthquakes, including recently in Arkansas, home to another large shale gas field.

After a swarm of small earthquakes hit north-central Arkansas near a formation called the Fayetteville Shale, the state issued a temporary moratorium last year on new injection wells. The state found that three wells were operating near an unknown fault and were likely contributing to earthquakes. The state shut those wells and banned future ones near the fault.

[Ton Loc]

Faults can act as a trap for oil and gas in a reservoir. I wish I had a diagram that shows how it works.

I was going to take one off the wall and scan it, but this is easier.

http://www.geol.umd.edu/~jmerck/geol342/images/08faulttrap.jpg

[Ton Loc]

.....
After a swarm of small earthquakes hit north-central Arkansas near a formation called the Fayetteville Shale, the state issued a temporary moratorium last year on new injection wells. The state found that three wells were operating near an unknown fault and were likely contributing to earthquakes. The state shut those wells and banned future ones near the fault.

For the last few years communities around the massive shale fields in Texas have worried about two things - Earthquakes from the waste wells and water pollution. I think they're more worried about the pollution right now.

[scotplum]

For the last few years communities around the massive shale fields in Texas have worried about two things - Earthquakes from the waste wells and water pollution. I think they're more worried about the pollution right now.

I wonder which the folks in Prague are more worried about?

[Sooner5030]

meh....not sure anything manmade could directly cause a disturbance so large that the wave travels through the earth from OK all the way to my bed in Missery. That requires a shiatload of energy. If we could achieve that level of energy mechanically there'd be no reason to drill in the first place.

/not a geologist, physicist or mechanical engineer

[Condescending Sooner]

They do a hell of a lot more drilling in western oklahoma than around prague . No quakes out there.

[Ton Loc]

No giant fault lines either. (Just sayin)

[yermom]

meh....not sure anything manmade could directly cause a disturbance so large that the wave travels through the earth from OK all the way to my bed in Missery. That requires a shiatload of energy. If we could achieve that level of energy mechanically there'd be no reason to drill in the first place.

/not a geologist, physicist or mechanical engineer

the energy is already there along the fault

[Sooner5030]

the energy is already there along the fault

so the fracking could be culpable but not the proximate cause? I'm fine with that theory.

[BU BEAR]

For the last few years communities around the massive shale fields in Texas have worried about two things - Earthquakes from the waste wells and water pollution. I think they're more worried about the pollution right now.

Actually, we are more worried about Yankees coming down, raising cain, and putting a damper on our economic activity.

[cleller]

I wonder which the folks in Prague are more worried about?

Talked with a friend yesterday who lives NW of Prague, right around the epicenter area. He was pretty glum. Whole family has lived in Prague for generations. Worried about future property values, when things may get back to normal, etc.
He has several cracks in drywall, has taken everything off walls, tied his cabinets shut.

We had a 3.6 yesterday afternoon, and a 3.0 this morning.

[OUDoc]

This is going to sound *******-ish but what were property values worth in Prague before the earthquakes?
What can't he and his family do now that they could do before the quakes?

I'm just curious.

[Skysooner]

This is coming from an expert. I have a degree in rock mechanics and work in the petroleum industry.

Seismic dynamite-Not a chance in hell this causes an earthquake. You get as much vibration from a semi driving over the ground.

A View to a Kill-The premise of this movie was absolutely correct. Injecting water directly into a fault plane reduces the tension between the rocks that are holding the fault from moving. In fact, if there is a water supply well within a fault plane, the reduction of fluid levels in the well tell you that pressure is dropping and the fault is about to move.

Injection of salt water-Obviously from above, injecting into a fault plane that is under tension and is at the correct orientation can cause earthquakes. There have been documented cases in Oklahoma, Arkansas and Irving, Texas at a minimum. This isn't going to happen often, and it has to be in the right circumstances (fault that is still somewhat active and oriented at a particular direction to the maximum insitu stress).

Fracking-Fracking can cause earthquakes via the same mechanism. Still the fracking affects a more limited area than longterm water injection, and the likelihood of it happening in a region is slim. We are generally not drilling horizontal wells into fault planes, because it means we get nothing out of the well when we frac in the vicinity of one. Basically it removes part of the wellbore from play and you want as much wellbore open as you can get to enhance production and economics. The British study was true. There was also the OGS study and some in Canada right now. They are very limited, and the earthquakes are on the order of 2-3 magnitude which means unless you are right on top of it, it won't affect anything.

Summary, there are many things that can cause earthquakes, but the big ones in Oklahoma are going to be the result of natural processes unless Christopher Walken happens to be flying above them in a blimp (ie A View to a Kill). Fracking can cause limited earthquakes, but as noted above, injection of water into a tectonically active area is the worst possible thing. These earthquakes weren't caused by that.

[thecynic]

I don't have enough knowledge to argue for or against injection drilling causing the earthquakes. But if it can cause minor tremors like the ones we've been having for a few years in Eastern OK county. Couldn't the shaking from the temors hasten or cause what is going to already happen on a fault line? I'm not wording this very well, but the ground is shaking at 3.2 over and over again, couldn't that spur the bigger ones along the fault? I'm sure the answer will be no, but I don't see how it couldn't. So while injection drilling doesn't cause the activity along the Wilzetta (sp) fault, it could be responsible for the smaller quakes that may have started it all. Again, not flaming or arguing, just trying to figure it out. doesn't it seem a bit much to just write it off as coincidence?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Skysooner,

Is the issue from water injection or fracking bigger than that from coal mining subduction?

I know depthwise, subduction is more of an issue, but wonder from an industry perspective is there any difference?

[Skysooner]

No, because small scale earthquakes have very little effect more than a couple of miles from the epicenter. Again, we don't drill up against major active faults for the reasons stated earlier. There are lots of faults in the earth that are seals and haven't been active for millions or hundreds of millions of years. A 4+ earthquake is the buildup of a lot of energy over a very long time that just gives way. Now that has an effect hundreds of miles away and can trigger movement along faults that were stressed but unlikely to move unless given a shock of big energy. Most people have just heard about fracking, but it was developed in the 1940s. We have been doing horizontal well fracking like since the early 1990s Even the high volume slickwater fracs which are in the news have been done since around 1999. It is primarily water injection that is the main culprit and that has been known for years. That is why it is regulated.

[colleyvillesooner]

We just need Superman to fly into the middle of the fault and push everything back up.

[Skysooner]

Skysooner,

Is the issue from water injection or fracking bigger than that from coal mining subduction?

I know depthwise, subduction is more of an issue, but wonder from an industry perspective is there any difference?

That depends. Coal mining subduction has a rebound effect over a broader area, but it also depends on the rock underlying it and how much tension it is under.

Fracking and water injection is closer to the source, so it is likely going to have a bigger effect overall. However, fracking and water injection also have a very limited range of effect while coal subduction will have a larger area.

To date, there have been a very few earthquake events associated with fracking and water injection and only in very specific areas that have active faults, are under active stress and are at about a 45 degree angle to the maximum principal stress.

For those wanting more specifics, basically what water pressure does is slide Mohr's circle to the left by reducing sigma 1 and sigma 3 pressures and when it hits the failure envelope which is most active in the 30 to 45 degree angle from maximum principal stress then it can move.

[tator]

No, because small scale earthquakes have very little effect more than a couple of miles from the epicenter. Again, we don't drill up against major active faults for the reasons stated earlier. There are lots of faults in the earth that are seals and haven't been active for millions or hundreds of millions of years. A 4+ earthquake is the buildup of a lot of energy over a very long time that just gives way. Now that has an effect hundreds of miles away and can trigger movement along faults that were stressed but unlikely to move unless given a shock of big energy. Most people have just heard about fracking, but it was developed in the 1940s. We have been doing horizontal well fracking like since the early 1990s Even the high volume slickwater fracs which are in the news have been done since around 1999. It is primarily water injection that is the main culprit and that has been known for years. That is why it is regulated.
Agreed, we've been fracking for a very long time. There's not as much correlation as there seems, cynic.

[cleller]

This is going to sound *******-ish but what were property values worth in Prague before the earthquakes?
What can't he and his family do now that they could do before the quakes?

I'm just curious.

Actually, values of anything associated with real estate have gone up steadily over the last 10-20 years. For instance, in 1999, land values have gone from around $500/acre to $1000-2000/acre. Homes have also gone up, as Lincoln County is about an hour from both Oklahoma City and Tulsa.

If this pattern continues, it seems logical that folks might shy away from homes near Prague, just for the association with the earthquakes. Prague is a nice town, good people.

[EnragedOUfan]

I heard all of these earthquakes will eventually start taking their toll on the livestock in the vicinity. Chickens will stop laying eggs, Cows will stop producing milk, the animals will not take the earthquakes well, something to do with their instincts. Just a theory I heard...

[OUDoc]

I heard all of these earthquakes will eventually start taking their toll on the livestock in the vicinity. Chickens will stop laying eggs, Cows will stop producing milk, the animals will not take the earthquakes well, something to do with their instincts. Just a theory I heard...
Sacrifice enough virgins and it will all turn back around.

[picasso]

There was a University of Tulsa seismologist professor type on the news last week that nearly laughed at this assumption.

[soonerbrat]

Earthquake experts dubious of any drilling linkThursday, November 10, 2011
Page Content
Even if you didn’t actually feel one or more of Central Oklahoma’s recent earthquakes, no doubt you have heard about them.

Friends may even have asked you whether hydraulic fracturing caused the tremors, the largest of which reached a state record 5.6 magnitude.

Feel free to tell them what the experts are saying. Federal, state and academic experts say readings show that the Oklahoma quakes were natural, following the lines of a long-known fault.

“You don't need a huge fault to produce an earthquake that big,” U.S. Geological Survey seismologist Paul Earle told The Associated Press. “It’s uncommon, but not unexpected.”

The magnitude-5.6 quake that rocked Oklahoma three miles underground had the power of 3,800 tons of TNT, which is nearly 2,000 times stronger than the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the AP reported.

By comparison, the typical energy released in tremors triggered by hydraulic fracturing "is the equivalent to a gallon of milk falling off the kitchen counter," Stanford University geophysicist Mark Zoback told the AP.

While the recent earthquakes were large, such activity is not unprecedented for Oklahoma. Pioneers reported temblors before statehood. A 5.5-magnitude quake was recorded at El Reno in 1952. A series of aftershocks followed.

[cleller]

There was a University of Tulsa seismologist professor type on the news last week that nearly laughed at this assumption.

They laughed at Galileo, Elvis, Oppenheimer, Van Gogh, Jonas Saulk, and Phil Spector, too.

[cleller]

I heard all of these earthquakes will eventually start taking their toll on the livestock in the vicinity. Chickens will stop laying eggs, Cows will stop producing milk, the animals will not take the earthquakes well, something to do with their instincts. Just a theory I heard...

So far still getting our normal amount of eggs. Those ducks seemed to be hiding theirs even better now, though.
UPDATE: I put all the ducks and hens up for the night about 5:00pm. Went back out farting around at 5:30 pm and saw a duck egg in the pen. This is highly irregular, in every sense of the word. There was also a full moon last night, I think.

[oumartin]

you guys are idiots.. here is the proof.. I got it from Youtube!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LdAyodpUk0

[picasso]

They laughed at Galileo, Elvis, Oppenheimer, Van Gogh, Jonas Saulk, and Phil Spector, too.
Yeah ok, good comparison.

[oumartin]

Big oil has us all brainwashed but it's all their fault!

Big oil is the debil and God aint taking it no more!

[Petro-Sooner]

No more God said!!!!

[pphilfran]

At Greenpeaces command Algore holds his staff out over the oil, and throughout the night a strong leftist wind divides the sludge pit, and Algore and his followers pass through with a wall of oil on either side. Bigoil pursue, but at daybreak Algore clogs their gas guzzlers wheels and throws them into a panic, and with the return of the oil Bigoil and his entire army are destroyed

[Breadburner]

I heard all of these earthquakes will eventually start taking their toll on the livestock in the vicinity. Chickens will stop laying eggs, Cows will stop producing milk, the animals will not take the earthquakes well, something to do with their instincts. Just a theory I heard...

And Momma could lose her orgasm......:confusion:

[cleller]

Oil is the reason God made Oklahoma. Don't fight it.

[Skysooner]

3 miles deep? That was definitely not oilfield induced then. There is no production in Lincoln Co. that deep.

[Jacie]

They laughed at Galileo, Elvis, Oppenheimer, Van Gogh, Jonas Saulk, and Phil Spector, too.

I don't recall anyone noted by historians as laughing at Galileo, upset with him, yes, but I do not recall anyone thinking he was somehow funny. Phil Spector, yeah, but look at the guy's hair. Also not sure about anyone documented laughing at Oppenheimer (more likely he scared the hell out of people) or Jonas Saulk, though I will concede Elvis.

Besides, what you don't see are the thousands or millions of fools who were laughed at and rightly so but history doesn't usually mention failure unless they do so in a spectacular fashion.