Who thinks a another worldwide economic meltdown could be coming?

[cleller]

Everyone is probably sick of following the Greek problem, but the longer it goes on, the more the tone of the coverage seems to be tilting toward some bad domino effect. I try to keep up with the financial markets, and outlooks, so the possibility of big market drops scares me. After the last go-round my risk tolerance has dropped some. It seems like the possibility that Europe will spin into crisis is getting higher every day.

There have been signs of a slight upswing in the US economy recently, and the last few weeks have been good for the US stock markets. Still, we have lots of debt problems that are not going away, and things go global in the blink of an eye. I saw an interview with Jim Rogers, who I used to read in Money magazine years ago. He had some scary comments, and said he is short US and European stocks, long metals. I like the guy, but he is in Soros camp.

I've felt like the 2008 thing could have been so much worse, and the markets bounced back much faster than I figured they would. Makes me wonder if another big kerfluffle is headed this way.

[NormanPride]

Have the problems been fixed? No? Then yes, we're headed for more.

Honestly, though, I really hope the various media outlets pump up the consumer heading into this holiday season. If they get consumer confidence high, then report good numbers after the holiday season we could turn this around a little bit and get some positive movement out of the markets.

[pphilfran]

I don't think we are heading toward a depression...another deep recession is possible...

[BU BEAR]

Yes, I think more economic chaos will envelope most of the world. But, not because of Greece. Greece will hurt Europe and may cause the breakup of the EU economic union. The world will be severely hurt because the U.S. has not and will not address its spending problem, which will lead to problems with the world reserve currency, the U.S. dollar.

[soonercruiser]

:confusion:

[Killerbees]

Yes, I am convinced that there is a large meltdown coming.

Nothing got fixed from the last disaster. Nothing. Banks are still not showing their exposure and the books are still marked to fantasy.

The Euro crisis developing with the PIIGS (Portugal, Greece, Ireland, Italy and Spain) will get the ball rolling. US banks have massive exposure through CDS to Euro banks. When those banks start going down that will show up here immediately. Signs that this might happen sooner rather than later are here. Fed Reverse Repos from foreign accounts (basically cash from foreign investors parked short term at the FED) just jumped to the highest level ever at 124B and it was the 2nd biggest weekly jump ever at 42.5B. The largest was right before the Lehman collapse at 43B. The ECB shows the same with a 16 month high of 275B Euros on deposit for safe keeping. All told there is about 1.6T in liquidity that has been pulled. All this boils down to a large money crunch coming in Euro banks. When they start imploding it will bring down banks here. Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-01/selling-more-insurance-on-shaky-european-debt-raises-risk-for-u-s-banks.html) show why this will happen. Basically our banks are lying about the exposure they have to the PIIGS. The way the get around it is this. Bank buys 10 billion in Greek debt. Bank goes to insurer and pays for CDS to hedge the debt gamble. Insurer goes to banks and buys CDS to hedge the CDS they just sold to another bank. So all the big banks and insurers are just hedging each other without contemplating what will happen if a CDS is triggered and the bank or insurer who issued the CDS they bought cant pay up. This is exactly what happened with AIG and why the gov scrambled to bail out AIG claiming that they were too big to fail. The large US banks are betting that the same thing will happen in Europe and the ECB along with all the EU countries will bail them all out instead of letting them all collapse. They are counting on the EU putting all the sheeple there on the hook for their losses just like our gov screwed us over to bail out our banks and EU banks in 08. If you recall it was AIG that triggered the panic, yes Lehman collapsed but AIG was the one that was "to big to fail" because if it went down the the banks here and in the EU were suddenly on the hook for all those bad bets they made and had hedged with CDS written by AIG.

Even if they do go right on screwing us all over and take the chance of all the sheeple rioting by firing up the printing presses, here and in the EU, to paper over the losses and keep everyone afloat we are still screwed. This can only go on for so long before they completely collapse the currency they are printing via inflation. Which is why Central banks are now buying gold rather than selling it because if this all blows up via inflation we will be moving to a new currency of some kind and that new currency will have some type of hard asset backing it or no one will trust it.

So basically they are left with 2 choices. Either let the defaults happen which would of course mean the destruction of a lot of wealth owned by the very people making this decision or fire up the printing presses and keep everything afloat as long as possible while moving to protect their own assets leaving the wealth destruction on everyone else not smart enough to figure out whats going on or to small to matter.

[8timechamps]

The environment is right for a global recession. In fact, just a couple of days ago, the International Labor Organization said that global economy is on the verge of a new and deeper global job recession. Given that very little has been done to correct the mistakes that were made by the banks, there isn't really a safety net this time. The Fed is making sad attempts to prop the US dollar up, but it's not working. Even Canada's economy is falling.

The question isn't when, but how bad. I don't think we're going to see depression era economies, but certainly nothing to get our own economy going.

Interestingly enough, the oil companies are still recording record profits. Even in the worst economies, someone makes money.

[KantoSooner]

The European crisis is largely one of unfunded government spending. The US has some aspect of this, but is largely a real estate crisis. Ours is further along toward resolution through simple passage of time. Europe, with a far higher public sector in their economies is facing a far worse crisis and has taken virtually no steps toward fixing it. it will be a wonder if the Euro survives.

[badger]

The general public has also dropped back into bad habits that they used to have before this recession --- saving rates are down, credit spending is up... you name it. People are still trying to maintain their same lifestyles even as our purchasing power is going down.

If you are worried about the economy, do your part. Be active in your community. Be an informed voter (and don't forget to show up on voting day). Live within your means without being a penny pinching tightwad. In a nutshell, be a part of the solution, not the problem.

[NormanPride]

It's going to take a generation learning the hard way that they can't buy everything to reset the purchasing mentality of the nation. A simple crisis like this isn't going to do it.

[JohnnyMack]

http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2010/01/15/1040143/420_TheRoad-420x0.jpg

Here's a picture of NP and mini-NP going travelling to an OU game in 2019.

[badger]

http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2010/01/15/1040143/420_TheRoad-420x0.jpg

Here's a picture of NP and mini-NP going travelling to an OU game in 2019.

Badger, befitting her wild animal state of being, is in the woods being angry and rodent-like.
http://www.thebutterdish.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/badger.jpg

[NormanPride]

Hey, at least I got a nice big shopping cart. Not one of them new splitlevel jobs that suck.

[pphilfran]

Badger, befitting her wild animal state of being, is in the woods being angry and rodent-like.
http://www.thebutterdish.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/badger.jpg

While backpacking in Colo I ran onto a momma Badger...damn thing wanted to chew my leg off...

[cleller]

The general public has also dropped back into bad habits that they used to have before this recession --- saving rates are down, credit spending is up... you name it. People are still trying to maintain their same lifestyles even as our purchasing power is going down.
.

This reminds me of some thoughts I had back in 2008. There was a lot of talk about how people were saving their money, no one spending, etc, so the economy was slow getting back in gear. I thought at the time that there was no way Americans would keep their money in their pockets for too long. People are just too addicted to spending. Everyone still had those credit cards, and saving money every month would get old fast.

I looked around for recent personal saving rates, hard to get reliable figures. It looks like the spike in 2009 has gradually gone down to around 3-4%, better than the early 2000's but not great. This has an interesting table at the bottom of the page:
http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-database/economic-data/10396-household-saving-rates.html#axzz1cm1gup71

So, I think its possible that everyone had their wake-up call in 2008, but have since start to backslide like a sinner on Saturday night.

[badger]

While backpacking in Colo I ran onto a momma Badger...damn thing wanted to chew my leg off...

In as not self-serving a manner as possible, let me just say that there is no critter that quite has a temper like a badger and thus they should probably not be messed with it.

The closest I've seen on PBS was the tasmanian devil. In real life, the closest thing I saw with a temper similar to a badger was a snapping turtle.

In any event, I do not think the world economy is heading for a depression, but rather, more stagnant-ness that could be interpreted as another recession since there's no growth.

There is a positive and negative way to spin everything and I think media and "experts" are ready to put positive spins on stuff in time for the holidays in hopes of a good economic season. As such, you can anticipate reports of higher jobless rates spun as "More people entering the workforce again after being discouraged about finding a job" and such.

[pphilfran]

Nice post, Momma Badger...

[8timechamps]

In as not self-serving a manner as possible, let me just say that there is no critter that quite has a temper like a badger and thus they should probably not be messed with it.

The closest I've seen on PBS was the tasmanian devil. In real life, the closest thing I saw with a temper similar to a badger was a snapping turtle.

In any event, I do not think the world economy is heading for a depression, but rather, more stagnant-ness that could be interpreted as another recession since there's no growth.

There is a positive and negative way to spin everything and I think media and "experts" are ready to put positive spins on stuff in time for the holidays in hopes of a good economic season. As such, you can anticipate reports of higher jobless rates spun as "More people entering the workforce again after being discouraged about finding a job" and such.

I don't know, Wolverines come pretty close. Also, I found out the hard way that Beavers are very territorial (I'm talking about the actual animal :) ).

Now back to the subject, savings rates aren't down because of consumer spending. Savings rates are a lagging indicator of the jobless rate. More unemployed = Less income to save. As mentioned above, we aren't in as bad a shape as Europe, but we're still vulnerable to a recession. The problem is that we, as a country, have joined the world's global economy (which isn't in itself a bad thing), however more US funding has gone oversees (in both actual funding and jobs), which has left less to stay in country and more exposure to foreign economic crisis.

Until we get people back to work, the economy is going to remain sluggish (at best). It's a vicious cycle.

[Killerbees]

The European crisis is largely one of unfunded government spending. The US has some aspect of this, but is largely a real estate crisis. Ours is further along toward resolution through simple passage of time. Europe, with a far higher public sector in their economies is facing a far worse crisis and has taken virtually no steps toward fixing it. it will be a wonder if the Euro survives.

I dunno, I kind of see the same thing here. Uncontrolled government spending and expansion. I see nothing to say that the housing market is moving toward resolution, unless you include crashing as a resolution. It has all just been delayed. The majority of defaulted homes are just sitting there, no expectation of the banks actually marking them to market value and taking the hit. No changes to prevent them from just carrying on with what they were doing, just a massive infusion of taxpayer cash to bail them out of a tight jam. I agree that in certain countries in Europe the situation is worse but we are only a step or two behind them, and nothing has happened to stop that. We are on the same course as Greece, but there wont be anyone around to bail us out and let us pretend a few more years that we can afford to pay all the social programs we have.

[cleller]

My mom was born in 1922; after my father died she remarried, and her second husband was born in 1915. I heard lots of tales of the Great Depression in Oklahoma from them. It really is unimaginable to anyone born after WWII what life was like then. Never been close to that in the US since. If times like that came around again I can't imagine our current populace coping with it. I'm talking about eating possums, no shoes for 6 months out of the year, sleeping outdoors to escape the heat (no electricity).

To get back on topic, my main concern is the selfish 21st century stuff. Another wipeout of IRAs, and the like. I'll admit, I've become defensive, and am violating the prime directive: trying to time the market. In other words, for the short term, I have scaled back on stock and bond funds, and will re-evaluate sometime in the next year. Kind of ashamed to admit it, but there it is.

Maybe this will mean a big rally for the more stout of heart.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Interestingly enough, the oil companies are still recording record profits. Even in the worst economies, someone makes money.

Funny, the evil oil companies are bad but...

Apple has overtaken Exxon as the most valuable public company in the world. (http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/09/apple-exxon-valuable-company/)

[Killerbees]

My mom was born in 1922; after my father died she remarried, and her second husband was born in 1915. I heard lots of tales of the Great Depression in Oklahoma from them. It really is unimaginable to anyone born after WWII what life was like then. Never been close to that in the US since. If times like that came around again I can't imagine our current populace coping with it. I'm talking about eating possums, no shoes for 6 months out of the year, sleeping outdoors to escape the heat (no electricity).

To get back on topic, my main concern is the selfish 21st century stuff. Another wipeout of IRAs, and the like. I'll admit, I've become defensive, and am violating the prime directive: trying to time the market. In other words, for the short term, I have scaled back on stock and bond funds, and will re-evaluate sometime in the next year. Kind of ashamed to admit it, but there it is.

Maybe this will mean a big rally for the more stout of heart.

If your trying to time the market I think it is time to pull out now. Completely out of stocks and hold cash. I am mostly in this position after today with exception of a few long term shares I own. I think you are right and getting back in will happen when either I see a breakout upward or after a big drop. It might be next month and it might be early next year but the time to get back in will come.

[Killerbees]

Interestingly enough, the oil companies are still recording record profits. Even in the worst economies, someone makes money.

I didnt look it up but if you were to look up companies that actually produce a base commodity like oil, gold, wheat, sugar etc I would bet that you will find record profits over the 2 years. Of course the oil companies profits dwarf those of all the rest but if you look at a percentage basis I think its pretty much inline with most businesses. They have just concentrated the huge market into a handful of businesses.

[Killerbees]

Funny, the evil oil companies are bad but...

Apple has overtaken Exxon as the most valuable public company in the world. (http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/09/apple-exxon-valuable-company/)

Well, at least until Samsung and Droid rape them.

[8timechamps]

I dunno, I kind of see the same thing here. Uncontrolled government spending and expansion. I see nothing to say that the housing market is moving toward resolution, unless you include crashing as a resolution. It has all just been delayed. The majority of defaulted homes are just sitting there, no expectation of the banks actually marking them to market value and taking the hit. No changes to prevent them from just carrying on with what they were doing, just a massive infusion of taxpayer cash to bail them out of a tight jam. I agree that in certain countries in Europe the situation is worse but we are only a step or two behind them, and nothing has happened to stop that. We are on the same course as Greece, but there wont be anyone around to bail us out and let us pretend a few more years that we can afford to pay all the social programs we have.

I agree, and to add to that, the banks have tightened loan approvals to such a small threshold, that lending is already hard to come by.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Well, at least until Samsung and Droid rape them.

HA! I love my Galaxy S2 but I know the iPhone isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. As for the iPad, nobody else has even come close to sniffing it's numbers.

Just a hunch but I suspect we're going to see Apple get a little more aggressive. I mean everybody is falling all over Siri but the truth of the matter is it was just a regular app in the app store. The company was going to make a droid version before Apple bought them, gave them a whole lot more money to work with, and made it an iPhone exclusive.

[8timechamps]

Funny, the evil oil companies are bad but...

Apple has overtaken Exxon as the most valuable public company in the world. (http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/09/apple-exxon-valuable-company/)

Here's the difference: I don't have to buy apple products to get my kids to school. Also, Apple products don't cause an increase in my grocery bill. I'm not upset that oil companies are making money, just find that it may be part of the problem.

[BU BEAR]

Here's the difference: I don't have to buy apple products to get my kids to school. Also, Apple products don't cause an increase in my grocery bill. I'm not upset that oil companies are making money, just find that it may be part of the problem.

Then get pissed off at the group who sets the price of oil: OPEC. Exxon and other domestic producers are merely producing at the price set by OPEC.

Oh, wait! We cannot take OPEC. Schnikeys!

[Killerbees]

I think this thread might just be pretty timely.

I was reading just a bit before I go to bed and noticed the CME raised margin requirements to 100% for all commodities. I do not believe this has ever happened. Its weird. It basically means that alot of people that are leveraged are going to have to come up with a ton of cash or have their holdings liquidated until margin requirements have been met.

Why are they doing this, is the question. It could be because they the CME itself is cash strapped in the wake of the MF Global collapse and they are trying raise all the cash they can. This is scary and could very well trigger the big collapse we have been discussing. It could be that they simply made a mistake in the press release, unlikely. It could be that they are just trying to take advantage of the poor suckers who got hammered in the MF Global fiasco and force them into liquidation because although they kept their trades they still dont have access to the cash.

One thing that adds credence to the CME being cash strapped is the fact that Rick Santelli was talking today about it being weird that trades were going through the CME just fine but the cash was being delayed for significant periods. Hmmm, dunno but sounds like they may have been fighting for cash flow.

I looked up some typical bloggers I read to get their take. One thinks that this is being misread and will only aply to new trades so this will be a non issue, the other thinks the CME is trying to get liquidity and if they don't it will make lehman look like a warmup.

Things are going to be dicey Monday morning. To much bad news and all the signs are appearing of a liquidity crisis. Just what the FED needs to fire up the presses.

[pphilfran]

I didnt look it up but if you were to look up companies that actually produce a base commodity like oil, gold, wheat, sugar etc I would bet that you will find record profits over the 2 years. Of course the oil companies profits dwarf those of all the rest but if you look at a percentage basis I think its pretty much inline with most businesses. They have just concentrated the huge market into a handful of businesses.

You are correct and 8time is completely off base...he thinks a company with 370 billion in sales shouldn't make 30 billion in net profit...they paid 21 billion in taxes...

XOM is a massive company that he thinks should only make 5% on their investment...

[pphilfran]

Some info from XOM...Be sure to look at the info in the gas pump breakdown...this info is from EIA (fed org that is our energy expert...they are used by Congress and the Prez)

At $3.56 a gallon
Crude Oil 68% of cost
Refining 13%
Taxes 12%
Distribution and Marketing 7%



http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2011/04/27/gas-prices-and-industry-earnings-a-few-things-to-think-about/

Less than 3 percent of ExxonMobil’s earnings are from U.S. gasoline sales
ExxonMobil’s earnings are from operations in more than 100 countries around the world. The part of the business that refines and sells gasoline and diesel in the United States represents less than 3 percent – or 3 cents on the dollar – of our total earnings. For every gallon of gasoline, diesel or finished products we manufactured and sold in the United States in the last three months of 2010, we earned a little more than 2 cents per gallon. That’s not a typo. Two cents.

ExxonMobil’s earnings are in line with the industry average
In 2010, ExxonMobil made less than 8 cents for every dollar of revenue from all of our businesses around the world. That’s less than half of companies selling pharmaceuticals, beverages, tobacco and computers, just to name a few. On a dollar-for-dollar basis, our earnings, and those of the U.S. oil and gas industry at large, are generally in line with the average earnings of all U.S. industries.

[pphilfran]

I don't want facts to get in the way so I will just join in on the Hate Evil Big Oil bandwagon...

[AlboSooner]

Then get pissed off at the group who sets the price of oil: OPEC. Exxon and other domestic producers are merely producing at the price set by OPEC.

Oh, wait! We cannot take OPEC. Schnikeys!

We can't leave OPEC because no US administration has proposed, nor followed a serious energy independence plan, and the reason for this is Big Oil corrupting Congress to block any move that will threaten their monopoly. Big Oil controls much of Congress and has a powerful propaganda arm which uses familiar venus to create doubt, to create debate, to create fears. They don't have to convince the public that Big Oil is nice, they only to convince them that energy Independence is not worht the cost right now.

Big Oil has historically supported the GOP, which is why many GOP-leaning people have no problem with Big Oil. GOP profits from campaign contributions, and Big Oil profits from representation in congress.

When small Ethanol tried to do the same with Obama, the GOP/FoxNews allegiance playing as spokespeople for Big Oil tore Obama to shreds over this.

As an independent, I just want this country to prosper, and despite calls for energy independence we can't seem to do it, and the reason is Oil.

[pphilfran]

One more thing and I will shut up....:)

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=23&t=10

In 2010, the United States consumed about 138.6 billion gallons (or 3.3 billion barrels) of gasoline, a daily average of about 379.7 million gallons (9 million barrels). This was 2.7% less than the record high of about 142.38 billion gallons (or 3.39 billion barrels) consumed in 2007.

The fed gasoline excise tax is set at 18.4 cents per gallon...or 25 billion or so...then you add diesel on top of that 25 billion...

The fed has a cash cow!

If the US wants to limit XOM profits we should put in place a effective energy policy...drive oil prices down and put a crimp in XOM's wallet....

[Killerbees]

We can't leave OPEC because no US administration has proposed, nor followed a serious energy independence plan, and the reason for this is Big Oil corrupting Congress to block any move that will threaten their monopoly. Big Oil controls much of Congress and has a powerful propaganda arm which uses familiar venus to create doubt, to create debate, to create fears. They don't have to convince the public that Big Oil is nice, they only to convince them that energy Independence is not worht the cost right now.

Big Oil has historically supported the GOP, which is why many GOP-leaning people have no problem with Big Oil. GOP profits from campaign contributions, and Big Oil profits from representation in congress.

When small Ethanol tried to do the same with Obama, the GOP/FoxNews allegiance playing as spokespeople for Big Oil tore Obama to shreds over this.

As an independent, I just want this country to prosper, and despite calls for energy independence we can't seem to do it, and the reason is Oil.

Please dont get this thread locked by discussing politics.

[pphilfran]

That is why I am bowing out....I have tried to tiptoe around it but I will eventually fail.... :)

[Blue]

I dunno, I kind of see the same thing here. Uncontrolled government spending and expansion. I see nothing to say that the housing market is moving toward resolution, unless you include crashing as a resolution. It has all just been delayed. The majority of defaulted homes are just sitting there, no expectation of the banks actually marking them to market value and taking the hit. No changes to prevent them from just carrying on with what they were doing, just a massive infusion of taxpayer cash to bail them out of a tight jam. I agree that in certain countries in Europe the situation is worse but we are only a step or two behind them, and nothing has happened to stop that. We are on the same course as Greece, but there wont be anyone around to bail us out and let us pretend a few more years that we can afford to pay all the social programs we have.

I agree with you. The recession never really stopped. Just an influx of massive stimulus to delay the inevitable. Banks still are not lending money to small businesses and prices for gas, groceries, and most products have risen. I don't agree with the sentiment that people are still living above their means. Some people yes, but others have had no choice to downsize and not consume. Easy choice when they have no income. Depression...maybe if there is not more bailouts and stimulus...continued recession...definitely.

[cleller]

I've never quite got why people love to hate the oil companies. They've paid lots of money to lots of Oklahomans, despite the mind-numbing complexities of tracking down mineral owners. They employ even more Oklahomans in one way or another, and provide a product that makes tons of cash in taxes for the government.
They make it possible to travel and see the world, on and on; I have never worked for the industry, both am a native Okie.

If people truly dislike oil, it is possible with a little planning and spending to drastically cut how much gas you buy. Move into the inner city, buy a bike, buy and electric car, etc.

[8timechamps]

You are correct and 8time is completely off base...he thinks a company with 370 billion in sales shouldn't make 30 billion in net profit...they paid 21 billion in taxes...

XOM is a massive company that he thinks should only make 5% on their investment...

Where am I off base? I didn't say there was anything wrong with oil companies making profit, all I said is that it was "interesting".

How in the hell do you people assume to know what "interesting" means to me? Seriously, I'm in the business of making as much money as possible, do you guys really thing I care that oil companies are profiting?

Maybe read what's written in the future, rather than just assuming. We all know what assuming does...

[8timechamps]

Then get pissed off at the group who sets the price of oil: OPEC. Exxon and other domestic producers are merely producing at the price set by OPEC.

Oh, wait! We cannot take OPEC. Schnikeys!

Honestly, I really don't give a **** how much big oil makes in profits. The gas prices are what they are, so I pay 'em. Just like everyone else.

[pphilfran]

Where am I off base? I didn't say there was anything wrong with oil companies making profit, all I said is that it was "interesting".

How in the hell do you people assume to know what "interesting" means to me? Seriously, I'm in the business of making as much money as possible, do you guys really thing I care that oil companies are profiting?

Maybe read what's written in the future, rather than just assuming. We all know what assuming does...

There was no assumption made...at least three different people took exception to your post...

One of three things has happened...

1. We misread your statements
2. You were not clear in your statements
3. We read your statements correctly and disagreed with them...

My problem was with your statement that record oil company profits were part of the problem...oil company profits are not part of the problem...the lack of an energy policy and wildly fluctuating crude prices due to the lack of policy is the problem....

You can now clarify your statements and correct me if I am wrong in linking your various posts...

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Everyone is probably sick of following the Greek problem, but the longer it goes on, the more the tone of the coverage seems to be tilting toward some bad domino effect. I try to keep up with the financial markets, and outlooks, so the possibility of big market drops scares me. After the last go-round my risk tolerance has dropped some. It seems like the possibility that Europe will spin into crisis is getting higher every day.

There have been signs of a slight upswing in the US economy recently, and the last few weeks have been good for the US stock markets. Still, we have lots of debt problems that are not going away, and things go global in the blink of an eye. I saw an interview with Jim Rogers, who I used to read in Money magazine years ago. He had some scary comments, and said he is short US and European stocks, long metals. I like the guy, but he is in Soros camp.

I've felt like the 2008 thing could have been so much worse, and the markets bounced back much faster than I figured they would. Makes me wonder if another big kerfluffle is headed this way.

Of course we may have global recessions in the future, but I don't expect a meltdown. But no doubt the goose that laid golden eggs is missing.

[cleller]

My usual plan is to just do the opposite or whatever Boone Pickens says. Lately he has been pretty quiet, though. No doubt caressing his scale model of Pickens Stadium with one hand....

[8timechamps]

There was no assumption made...at least three different people took exception to your post...

One of three things has happened...

1. We misread your statements
2. You were not clear in your statements
3. We read your statements correctly and disagreed with them...

My problem was with your statement that record oil company profits were part of the problem...oil company profits are not part of the problem...the lack of an energy policy and wildly fluctuating crude prices due to the lack of policy is the problem....

You can now clarify your statements and correct me if I am wrong in linking your various posts...

First and foremost, let me say that I personally have no problem with oil companies. My initial comment:


Interestingly enough, the oil companies are still recording record profits. Even in the worst economies, someone makes money.

...wasn't written with some kind of secret double meaning. I simply noted that it was interesting that there are companies that are recording record profits in this poor economy. If you read more into that than I intended, that's on you.

My second comment as a response to a post about Apple outpacing oil companies in profits:


Here's the difference: I don't have to buy apple products to get my kids to school. Also, Apple products don't cause an increase in my grocery bill. I'm not upset that oil companies are making money, just find that it may be part of the problem.

Maybe this was misleading. My comment was pretty simple, but in case you didn't understand, or I wasn't clear; the comment that oil companies "may be part of the problem" has to do with their relationship to Apple and how it is applied in my life...not some worldwide economic diatribe. I don't have to pay $75 if I want to take my iPad on a trip. So the problem I was referring to, has to do with Apple making profits versus something I have to use making record profits. When I said it was a problem, I meant "I don't walk away from the gas station with a big smile on my face feeling like things are great".

You strike me as someone hell-bent on arguing. Maybe you work for an oil company, or maybe you made a lot of money on oil companies in the past. I don't know, maybe you're a super extreme republican that hates it when oil companies are attacked. I don't know what exactly set you off, but you have apparently mistaken me for someone else. I'm the person that doesn't really give a **** about corporate profits unless they fall short of projections. I'd think you would have picked up on that in the previous retirement plan thread. Guess not.

[pphilfran]

Thanks for your reply...