Deeper Dive into the Defensive Complaints

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

During the game thread, there were a lot of complaints about our defense with 95% of them directed at our coordinator. I personally don't think that our issues are scheme/call related (the things that the coordinator does) but are related to talent/fit/discipline which are more related to the position coach. For purposes of this thread, BV the LB coach is totally separate from BV the DC.

First point -> Is it the coordinator's fault when you see a Jeckyll and Hyde performance like Saturday?

The big question here is what changed? In 2000 against Nebraska we came out and just let them maul us the first 2 possessions.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIEX7cynX0o

Our coordinators made adjustments and we shut them down the rest of the way. The adjustment in question was benching that year's Thorpe award winner and putting in a player better against the run. The DCs in question had the luxury of having a RS FR ready to play and that the personnel weakness was the only one that could be exploited.

Saturday what we saw was the defensive players come out and dominate and then let off the gas. Going for the jugular is one of the hallmarks of a championship team and it isn't something that can be taught. You have to recruit players that inately understand how to elevate their game to match and overcome their opponent regardless of the situation. Our defense is inconsistent at best with handling abundance and/or adversity. Sometimes they step up to the challenge, other times they don't. In this particular game, KState handed Mo back to us at the end of the half with the fumble and resultant 50 yard field goal. After the half, we dominated them with the biggest adjustment being our DEs playing better.

But what about TTech you ask? TTech was a case of us allowing an opposing QB to get hot. Once he got to that point, nothing we could do was going to work until he snapped out of that groove. It isn't unlike basketball when a shooter gets on a streak. Once they get there they start hitting impossible difficulty shots with ease. The key is to disrupt them so that they never get there. Had we played the first half like we played the 2nd half, the score would have been more in our favor.

2nd Point - Talent

One of my biggest points of contention on this board is us overestimating our raw talent. I contend that we tend to have a lot of overachievers mixed in with a few talented football players and a couple of athletic guys. So for kicks I went and looked up the number of defensive football players we have in the NFL and Texas has in the NFL.

Oklahoma (14) - 16 if you want TGRW and Tommie Harris to count

C.J. Ah You St. Louis Rams Defensive End
Remi Ayodele Minnesota Vikings Defensive Tackle
Quinton Carter Denver Broncos Safety
Keenan Clayton Philadelphia Eagles Linebacker
Auston English Cleveland Browns Defensive End
Dominique Franks Atlanta Falcons Cornerback
Kelly Gregg Kansas City Chiefs Defensive Tackle
Tommie Harris San Diego Chargers Defensive Tackle
Brian Jackson St. Louis Rams Cornerback
Curtis Lofton Atlanta Falcons Linebacker
Gerald McCoy Tampa Bay Buccaneers Defensive Tackle
Brodney Pool New York Jets Safety
Reggie Smith San Francisco 49ers Safety
Jimmy Wilkerson Seattle Seahawks Defensive End

Texas - 24

Sam Acho Arizona Cardinals Linebacker
Tarell Brown San Francisco 49ers Cornerback
Curtis Brown Pittsburgh Steelers Cornerback
Chykie Brown Baltimore Ravens Cornerback
Tim Crowder Tampa Bay Buccaneers Defensive End
Michael Griffin Tennessee Titans Safety
Cedric Griffin Minnesota Vikings Cornerback
Casey Hampton Pittsburgh Steelers Nose Tackle
Lamarr Houston Oakland Raiders Defensive End
Michael Huff Oakland Raiders Safety
Quentin Jammer San Diego Chargers Cornerback
Derrick Johnson Kansas City Chiefs Linebacker
Sergio Kindle Baltimore Ravens Linebacker
Henry Melton Chicago Bears Defensive Tackle
Roy Miller Tampa Bay Buccaneers Defensive Tackle
Roddrick Muckelroy Cincinnati Bengals Linebacker
Frank Okam Tampa Bay Buccaneers Defensive Tackle
Brian Orakpo Washington Redskins Linebacker
Cory Redding Baltimore Ravens Defensive Tackle
Brian Robison Minnesota Vikings Defensive End
Shaun Rogers New Orleans Saints Defensive Tackle
Aaron Ross New York Giants Cornerback
Earl Thomas Seattle Seahawks Safety
Aaron Williams Buffalo Bills Cornerback

We don't beat Texas because we are more talented. We beat them because we have better college football players. When you compare us to the 2000 defense we have more overall talent than they do at pretty much every position. What we don't have is better football players.

3. So what do I think is wrong?

1. We need to do a better job of personnel management at positions. We tend to be totally shocked when someone declares early and it leaves a huge hole at that position. This doesn't even take into consideration the "buried on the depth chart" casualties. We could sure use J. Miller right now in the offensive backfield, but he bailed before someone explained to him the realities of college football. All of our coaches need to do a better job of retaining talented kids and explaining to them when their time will come (as well as rewarding them with meaningful PT).

2. BV needs to start pulling MLBs from the juco ranks again. He just can't project size out of high school and he keeps ending up starting undersized guys in the middle. This has the domino effect of getting them hurt so that they can't gain weight so they get hurt again etc.

3. Pick a system and learn how to recruit to it. The difference between 4 star dude A and 3 star dude B is negligible. The difference between 4 star dude A playing a scheme built for 3 start dude B and 3 star dude B playing it is huge. It is amazing to me that our coaches go out and recruit players that end up being good at a polar opposite scheme.

4. Get a special teams coach -> Part of our issues on D are that we seem to have disregarded the notion that field position is important.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Field position is absolutely killing us. On one of KSU's FG drives they had 3 total yards. They ended up with 3 points. THAT is ridiculous.

[SoonerAtKU]

Would you say that LB is the biggest position issue we have on a year-to-year basis? I know some who feel it's at DT, but I know the argument can be made that a hole at LB is much more problematic than at DT.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Would you say that LB is the biggest position issue we have on a year-to-year basis? I know some who feel it's at DT, but I know the argument can be made that a hole at LB is much more problematic than at DT.

Linebacker has been our biggest issue the last 4 years. It has sort of been a problem since BV has been here. Sort of in the sense that we are always playing behind the 8 ball with depth.

Lets take Rocky Calmus as an example:

1999 - played with a broken leg
2000 - played with a broken arm

The problem is that he could never lift and get bigger/stronger because he was hurt. So the next year he plays without the gain in size and gets hurt again - vicious cycle. (That being said, he was a monster even with all of those issues, but guys like him are few and far between). What we see now is that we are forcing FR into the lineup constantly (loftin, lewis, reynolds, etc) who get hurt and never get bigger.

[MikeInNorman]

Never mind. Need to read first, post later.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

That is a defensive players list.

[NormanPride]

I really think we need to just stop stressing over it and accept the fact that we're not going to consistently have great LBs while BV is here. We have a large enough sample size to know that we will constantly have problems with depth and injuries.

I think the most disappointing position over the last three or so years has been DT. And if you ignore McCoy, it's been much longer than that. Shipp used to be a great recruiter, but has failed to bring in enough quality at DT to make up for our bad play at LB. This is why you've seen the sharp dip in overall defense the past few years (along with the improved offenses in the Big 12).

[Widescreen]

McFarland was supposed to be all world. It's not like the cupboard has been bare in terms of getting quality guys out of HS.

[NormanPride]

No, of course not, but this is Oklahoma, and our DTs (minus Walker) are woefully inadequate and inconsistent.

[badger]

NP didn't mention this in his long post, but he's mentioned it to me a few times, so I am going to let you all discuss it too:

Big 12 reffing inconsistency compared with other conference reffing.

What is pass interference in the Big 12 (and there's a lot of it), according to NP, is not pass interference in the bowl games or in other conferences.

NP says holding is hardly ever called in the Big 12, whereas most other conferences call it religiously.

I really haven't noticed this, unless we have the smiling ref call the game (he's the one that kind of smiles as the crowd boos him. It's really cute to watch... he's all like "Here come the boos"). But, it would explain why our defenses would be a little bit too inconsistent for comfort.

I don't think NP was saying this as a "refs are screwing OU" thing, but rather, as a "Big 12 refs are screwing Big 12 teams in bowl prep" thing. If we are getting used to certain things called as pass interference that aren't, or aren't getting called for holding most games then suddenly are in the bowls, how does that help our league get BCS/bowl victories?

Thoughts?

[NormanPride]

I completely steal all that from jkm, hon. Grand Theft Idea.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Oklahoma needs the speedy SAMs and WILLs they can typically deploy, but they really could use a 245lb. MIKE. I miss the Sooners having a Torrence Marshall/Lance Mitchell type behind the DTs. It's "almost" like having an extra DT where if the back gets past the DTs, they usually don't get past the MIKE. That kind of body can be suicidal against spread teams, but it's at least nice to have it as an option.

My lone complaint of Coach Venables is he usually takes a half to adjust as opposed to being able to adjust after a couple of series. Sometimes the damage is already done by not being able to adjust after a couple of series. Regardless, I've accepted that though because Coach Venables is going to be here until at least the day that Coach Stoops retires IMO.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Oklahoma needs the speedy SAMs and WILLs they can typically deploy, but they really could use a 245lb. MIKE. I miss the Sooners having a Torrence Marshall/Lance Mitchell type behind the DTs. It's "almost" like having an extra DT where if the back gets past the DTs, they usually don't get past the MIKE. That kind of body can be suicidal against spread teams, but it's at least nice to have it as an option.

My lone complaint of Coach Venables is he usually takes a half to adjust as opposed to being able to adjust after a couple of series. Sometimes the damage is already done by not being able to adjust after a couple of series. Regardless, I've accepted that though because Coach Venables is going to be here until at least the day that Coach Stoops retires IMO.

Yeah, he really struggles to project weight gain. Our best high school MLB has been Zach Latimer, a guy that was recruited for DE and couldn't put on weight.

I'm not really sure its fair to say that he doesn't adjust series to series. Most of the issues this year have been player intensity issues, those aren't things that you can correct in a series unless the player has a Calvin Curry type memory. A good example on offense is Ryan Broyles - the guy disappears after a fumble for a quarter - how do you coach around that? Bench your best player? Or let him work through it and hope no damage is done during that time?

[C&CDean]

Some people spend way too much time analyzing **** in minute detail.

Me? It boils down to this: we have a lot of really good football players. Players who were studs in high school. Players who are big/strong/fast/smart enough to win. Win every game against any college opponent.

We have outstanding PROVEN coaches, top-drawer facilities, top-drawer strength and conditioning, and pretty much top-drawer everything. IMHO, our woes (if you wanna call what we have to .... endure? as Sooner fans) woes, they are this: we have players who bonehead out on us from time-to-time. We have players who take a play or two off. We do not have a true killer instinct. None of this is really coachable/teachable. It just takes a group of young men who happen to gel into a monster unit. We do it for a half, or a quarter, and sometime even almost a whole game. We just can't do it for several games in a row.

I guess I'm gonna blame video games/twatting/facebook/etc. What else makes these talented young men be so ****ed up at times?

[En_Fuego]

twatting

I use to twat often, but now, not so much. Aw yes, twatting was fun back in the day.

[toast]

Thanks for the thread and insights jkm.

Special teams used to be a strength, and now we hold our breath for every field goal attempt and kick-off. When was the last time we returned a ko for a td, Demarco against Tulsa in 2007 or maybe Baylor later that year?

[CU Sooner]

I thnk the reason we have lighter LBs is because of the spread offenses that have taken hold in the conference. Coaches are in a tough position in that they have to have players get us through the season and then play stronger offenses rather than finesse.

To say we haven't had very good LB play since venables has been here is absurd. If there is one position every year i don't worry about it is usually LB. Is it our deepest, no and i accept the point that because they are lighter they get hurt. But the talent is there and it usually shows. Only 09 is the year i can think of that our LB's were the weak spot, other than that they are usually the strong suit.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Yeah, he really struggles to project weight gain. Our best high school MLB has been Zach Latimer, a guy that was recruited for DE and couldn't put on weight.

Alabama doesn't seem to have that problem and no, I don't want to start rooting for them instead. :-)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

To say we haven't had very good LB play since venables has been here is absurd. If there is one position every year i don't worry about it is usually LB. Is it our deepest, no and i accept the point that because they are lighter they get hurt. But the talent is there and it usually shows. Only 09 is the year i can think of that our LB's were the weak spot, other than that they are usually the strong suit.

That isn't what I said. I said that linebacker DEPTH has been an issue since BV has been at OU. For the first 6-7 years this didn't hurt us because we had relatively few injuries at the position and the one time we had a starter go down we had a really good backup (gayron allen).

However, since 2008, LB has not been a position of strength, it has been average to below average. It has been covered up to varying degrees by better play at other positions (most notably DE), but it isn't the position it was from 1999 to 2004.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Some people spend way too much time analyzing **** in minute detail.

Me? It boils down to this: we have a lot of really good football players. Players who were studs in high school. Players who are big/strong/fast/smart enough to win. Win every game against any college opponent.

We have outstanding PROVEN coaches, top-drawer facilities, top-drawer strength and conditioning, and pretty much top-drawer everything. IMHO, our woes (if you wanna call what we have to .... endure? as Sooner fans) woes, they are this: we have players who bonehead out on us from time-to-time. We have players who take a play or two off. We do not have a true killer instinct. None of this is really coachable/teachable. It just takes a group of young men who happen to gel into a monster unit. We do it for a half, or a quarter, and sometime even almost a whole game. We just can't do it for several games in a row.

I guess I'm gonna blame video games/twatting/facebook/etc. What else makes these talented young men be so ****ed up at times?

Some people spend way too much time telling people to get off their lawn ;-)

I believe I covered the killer instinct above. It is a weird and elusive concept though. For example, Texas found it in 2005 after we spent 3 years bending them over.

[C&CDean]

Well it would have been simpler to say "grow some cajones and beat them down" than all that technical crap, no? I mean seriously, that's what it's all about. They've shown they can be stone cold killahs. They just choose to do it every so often instead of all the damn time.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Well it would have been simpler to say "grow some cajones and beat them down" than all that technical crap, no? I mean seriously, that's what it's all about. They've shown they can be stone cold killahs. They just choose to do it every so often instead of all the damn time.

Yes, but this thread was for the game thread whiners.

[C&CDean]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking care of those people for me. Seriously.

[BoulderSooner79]

That isn't what I said. I said that linebacker DEPTH has been an issue since BV has been at OU. For the first 6-7 years this didn't hurt us because we had relatively few injuries at the position and the one time we had a starter go down we had a really good backup (gayron allen).

However, since 2008, LB has not been a position of strength, it has been average to below average. It has been covered up to varying degrees by better play at other positions (most notably DE), but it isn't the position it was from 1999 to 2004.

Not claiming we had depth in '07 overall, but Curtis Lofton was about as good as we've had under Stoops. And having Ryan Reynolds gave us depth at one position.

[sooneron]

2. BV needs to start pulling MLBs from the juco ranks again. He just can't project size out of high school and he keeps ending up starting undersized guys in the middle. This has the domino effect of getting them hurt so that they can't gain weight so they get hurt again etc.


THIS, I agree with. WHOLEHEARTEDLY. When was the last time we had a TRUE MLB that would translate to the next level? Lofton was able to pack pounds on, but he was still undersized at 6'1 or 2. Why can't we get a kid in the Hawk or Matthews mold? We have a proven track record at LB.

[sooneron]

Actually, when was the last time we had a juco that wasn't an OL?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Not claiming we had depth in '07 overall, but Curtis Lofton was about as good as we've had under Stoops. And having Ryan Reynolds gave us depth at one position.

Which was why I said the position has been weak overall since 2008. ;)

As an aside, this is one of the jacked up views of our fanbase. Loftin and TGRW are 2 early entrants that cost us National Championships. It is amazing how everyone skewers coaches on a weekly basis but without exception give a pass to kids jumping for NFL money...

[prrriiide]

Something I wonder...and I first thought this about Josh, but I guess it would apply to BV as well...when you have an absolutely GREAT position coach (remember, BV has coached 2 Butkus winners) that moves into a coordinator role and retains the position responsibilities, do the position players get shorted? This occurred to me watching Landry in the Taco Tech game...he just didn't seem to have his head in the game. Is part of that because Josh's focus is no longer solely on the QBs and where they are at physically and mentally before/during the game? Is Landry a player that consistently needs his position coach in his ear to remind him to stay focused? Is it possible that OUs LB issues are partly a consequence of BV not being able to focus all of his energies on the LBs?

[BoulderSooner79]

Which was why I said the position has been weak overall since 2008. ;)

As an aside, this is one of the jacked up views of our fanbase. Loftin and TGRW are 2 early entrants that cost us National Championships. It is amazing how everyone skewers coaches on a weekly basis but without exception give a pass to kids jumping for NFL money...

Well, I had highlighted your range of 99-04 and you reader's digested me :)

Totally agree with you on some early entrants. Lofton really surprised me because he only started 1 year. Reggie Smith and Malcolm Kelly also jumped. If those 3 guys stick around, I'd bet real money #8 would be in our trophy case. But I have to say I can understand the kid's motivation and the lure of NFL money. What I wish they would notice is that star players often stay associated with their colleges later in life and not with NFL teams. College is still special and fleeting, while NFL is all business.

[ashley]

The spread offense is causing headaches for most every team.

[Lawton4Life]

Some of this is spot on...not sure how we figured we were going to win a NC with Gayron Allen out there at Linebacker....however I do feel we beat Florida in 08 if we still had Lofton.

Thatcher didnt win the Thorpe in 2000 though, he won the special teams award. Williams won it on 01 and Strait in 03.

Some of that Texas list is going to peter out...we had tons of folks on rosters in the early to mid part of the decade, but they ended up washing out..Calmus, Woolfolk etc.

[NormanPride]

Malcolm Kelly was a cancer to our WR corps, and Ryan Broyles cured it in '08. He came in one game and lit things up, which scared Manny and Iggy into playing like they should. They had seen Kelly loaf it up for three years and thought that was the way you did things at OU.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Some of this is spot on...not sure how we figured we were going to win a NC with Gayron Allen out there at Linebacker....however I do feel we beat Florida in 08 if we still had Lofton.

Thatcher didnt win the Thorpe in 2000 though, he won the special teams award. Williams won it on 01 and Strait in 03.

Some of that Texas list is going to peter out...we had tons of folks on rosters in the early to mid part of the decade, but they ended up washing out..Calmus, Woolfolk etc.

yep, thatcher was a semi-finalist my bad.

http://www.soonersports.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/aa-jt-thatcher-2000.html

[instigator]

I don't even want to think what having Loftin against TBoner would have meant. :(

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Malcolm Kelly was a cancer to our WR corps, and Ryan Broyles cured it in '08. He came in one game and lit things up, which scared Manny and Iggy into playing like they should. They had seen Kelly loaf it up for three years and thought that was the way you did things at OU.

Yeah, I was going to mention that Kelly going pro made our team better. I'm still not sure if it was Kelly being a bad apple or Sumlin just not caring at all. [Also it was Manny who lit it up (200 yards receiving or somesuch) that got things straightened out until Iglesias reverted to his old ways in the Florida game.]

[stoops the eternal pimp]

One of the reasons I was excited about Ronnell Lewis when they brought him in was finally having a linebacker with size who could shed and move...Obviously his play at DE has been great, so not complaining

[delhalew]

Alabama doesn't seem to have that problem and no, I don't want to start rooting for them instead. :-)
That's because if a kid doesn't grow into a draft pick, he gets kicked to the curb. I don't want to win that way.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Some of this is spot on...not sure how we figured we were going to win a NC with Gayron Allen out there at Linebacker....however I do feel we beat Florida in 08 if we still had Lofton.

Thatcher didnt win the Thorpe in 2000 though, he won the special teams award. Williams won it on 01 and Strait in 03.

Some of that Texas list is going to peter out...we had tons of folks on rosters in the early to mid part of the decade, but they ended up washing out..Calmus, Woolfolk etc.

If Gayron Allen was on this team, no one would be able to run on us. He was a VERY good college linebacker who could run sideline to sideline and play on our opponents side of the ball. I wish we could get more Allens and Heineckes that would show the rest of the team how to do the little things to win. Now, to your point were they built for the pros? Absolutely not, its a totally different game where very few blue collar players make it (though some do like Wes Welker). The only weak spot that 2002 team had was at strong safety. You add TGRW to the mix with Woolfolk, Perkins, Pool, Strait and OMG that is one incredible D.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

One of the reasons I was excited about Ronnell Lewis when they brought him in was finally having a linebacker with size who could shed and move...Obviously his play at DE has been great, so not complaining

Ronnell was what 215? 220? out of high school so he was going to eat himself into a DE regardless. 200 LB high school linebackers just don't seem to exist, they are either 190 or 220...

[NormanPride]

The guys who weigh 200 are RBs it seems...

I really think there's a huge market for a portable combine that fits in something the size of a 18-wheeler. Just go from school to school, collect stats, sell them to colleges. The potential for data mining and trend analysis after a few years is mind boggling. Anyone know a VC that wants to finance me? :D

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Ronnell was what 215? 220? out of high school so he was going to eat himself into a DE regardless. 200 LB high school linebackers just don't seem to exist, they are either 190 or 220...

Yeah he was 220, but you could tell looking at his frame that he was going to be at 240ish fairly easy...

[StoopTroup]

Listen....

I lean a bit towards Dean on this one but jkm's post last year that showed Travis Lewis wasn't the GREATEST LINEBACKER TO EVER PLAY AT OU....was enlightening for some and others stayed in denial.

When Austin passed away....we lost one of those guys with heart at the linebacker position. It's hard to replace a guy like him with folks on defense wearing his jersey on their sleeve. I think it was going until the Tech Game. It kept guys, especially at the Linebacker Position, playing hard and leading the defense to play lights out and make the QB disturbances that JKM talks about.

You look at the situation and wonder....how the hell can OU Players drop a game like that at home, spoil a winning streak and put themselves in the National Championship Lottery?

It's pretty easy. We ran out of people at the Linebacker Position. We had injuries in other places too but Linebackers lost that game. I still contend that as good as Travis Lewis could be....he's still not 100% but I hate giving him an excuse because he's supposed to be the leader on Defense and at OU the Leader on Defense has always been the Middle Linebacker. If he's a weak link....other guys have to take up the slack and help. During the Tech Game....we were deep into our depth chart at Linebacker and Tubberville was prepared to take advantage of us and once he saw it working....he never let up. Their QB was large and in charge and had a great day. Our offense made mistakes too and when you put it all in a mixing bowl....Tech got to lick the Bowl and we got the dirty spoon Momma dropped on the floor.

We lost. What happened after Wort returned to the lineup against KSU? I rest my case.

The real Leader on Defense is Tom Wort. We miss him when he's not out there.

[delhalew]

I think you may be right, Greg...especially about Wort growing into the leader that Lewis gives lip service to being. Wort plays with emotion, and may get out of position, but Lewis plays with selfishness that jkm has laid out in detail. Travis is a great player, if only he'd go the extra mile to be a legendary leader. I don't think Wort is ready yet to get everyone in place. I hope he gets there.

[StoopTroup]

Sometimes you might not ever be ready. You just have to make the most of the Moment you are given and what I see from Wort when he's on the field is a leader. We are in trouble without him this year.

[delhalew]

Sometimes you might not ever be ready. You just have to make the most of the Moment you are given and what I see from Wort when he's on the field is a leader. We are in trouble without him this year.

Right now it's good enough for Wort to be an emotional leader, but when Travis leaves, someone has to direct traffic out there.

[SoonerAtKU]

I think Lewis' biggest issue is not being one thing or the other. He's not fast enough to be a rover covering two zones or breaking deep to zone out on a safety blitz, and he's not big enough to take on a blocker and shed to get to the ball.

On a related note, is there any talent in the pipe other than Bird and Nelson? What does the position look like next year? In two years?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I think Lewis' biggest issue is not being one thing or the other. He's not fast enough to be a rover covering two zones or breaking deep to zone out on a safety blitz, and he's not big enough to take on a blocker and shed to get to the ball.

On a related note, is there any talent in the pipe other than Bird and Nelson? What does the position look like next year? In two years?

1st statement - I don't think its a lack of talent. Lewis has the physical skills to be the greatest linebacker in OU history, he just doesn't have a college type motor. Compare him physically to Brian Bosworth or Rocky Calmus and he blows them away. You watch the college performances and they blow his doors off because they go hard til the whistle on every. single. play. I also think that he'll do much better in the pros where they tend to take plays off unless the play is right at them. It is one of the differences in the games that bothers me to no end.

2nd Question - Kellen Jones has shown some flashes when he's been in the lineup so assuming he doesn't eat himself into DE we should be able to add one more starter. The problem is that once again we have 15 LBs on the roster and 4 play.

[SoonerAtKU]

Do you think it's an issue of motivation, whether it comes from within or from Venables? Or, do you think it's a case of someone trying to conserve energy for the "big moments" when he thinks he can make the biggest impact?

I've also realized that this is a question of a personal nature and that it's very likely that nobody on this site is either Travis himself or dating Travis. It's fairly unlikely I'll get an answer on this and that's ok.

[NormanPride]

1st statement - I don't think its a lack of talent. Lewis has the physical skills to be the greatest linebacker in OU history, he just doesn't have a college type motor. Compare him physically to Brian Bosworth or Rocky Calmus and he blows them away. You watch the college performances and they blow his doors off because they go hard til the whistle on every. single. play. I also think that he'll do much better in the pros where they tend to take plays off unless the play is right at them. It is one of the differences in the games that bothers me to no end.

2nd Question - Kellen Jones has shown some flashes when he's been in the lineup so assuming he doesn't eat himself into DE we should be able to add one more starter. The problem is that once again we have 15 LBs on the roster and 4 play.

Do you mean only 4 get meaningful playing time? Or that only 4 are good enough to play?

Do you think Bird is good enough to play?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Do you mean only 4 get meaningful playing time? Or that only 4 are good enough to play?

Do you think Bird is good enough to play?

Bird is really good against the run (as in our best run defender right now). Against the pass, he looks like he has cement in his shoes. The thing is he's in the best position on the D to hide (in the middle) much like they did with Reynolds his SR year. Plus if he gets better against the run by next year, you can run the hybrid 4-2-5 with Nelson coming in on passing downs (creating a 3-3-5).

[NormanPride]

Think he'll ever see the field consistently? (my guess is no)

[StoopTroup]

Right now it's good enough for Wort to be an emotional leader, but when Travis leaves, someone has to direct traffic out there.





Tom was doing just fine when Travis was out. Travis was over on the sidelines helping from what I hear but still....with or without Travis....I think he would have stepped up and done just fine. I think what I'm getting at is....Brent is probably hesitant to tell Travis Tom's in charge and it's obviously going to change as soon as Travis is gone. I think they are being nice and trying to give Travis time to step it up and be the player they think he can be and I'm more realistic and would have made him 2nd fiddle to Tom and tell him he needed to earn his spot back. I love competition. It works well with emotion. If any of these guys that think they are gonna move on to the NFL don't think that will happen to them when they get to the NFL, if they are lucky enough to get to the NFL that is, they aren't ready to go. It just has nothing to do with loyalty or what you did last game....it has to do with putting the best Team on the Field every week. If Travis can't handle that....he might as well be even 2nd in the depth chart.

[StoopTroup]

Bird is really good against the run (as in our best run defender right now). Against the pass, he looks like he has cement in his shoes. The thing is he's in the best position on the D to hide (in the middle) much like they did with Reynolds his SR year. Plus if he gets better against the run by next year, you can run the hybrid 4-2-5 with Nelson coming in on passing downs (creating a 3-3-5).



Reynolds is a good example of a guy that is a leader. That guy really knew how to take control out there. He was emotional, always banged up but his life was helping our Defense do the best they could out there every single snap and I see that in Tom Wort. I don't in Travis Lewis.

Brent Venables could do Travis the best favor in the World right now by Starting Wort and Bird and setting Lewis as we go into this game. I'd tell him he's off his game. Then we might see the animal that used to be T-LEW again and he might even make Special Teams in the NFL for someone.

[Chiliman]

A lot of truth in what stooptroup says. BV would prefer that the MLB be the leader of the defense and call the signals. It is no coincidence when Austin got healthy, even though he had lost some of his explosiveness, that BV had him calling the defense and the defense improved dramatically. Austin was smart and disciplined. Must qualities for the MLB in OU's defense. As good as Travis has been, Austin was much more of a leader. He had the respect of his teammates and they knew his only concern was helping them win. Austin would have never called a teammate out in public or the media. I promise you the coaches were livid with Lewis about that. The players in that locker room know who can play and who will always lay it on the line for them.

Tom is better this year because he has some experience and he's becoming more disciplined. He's not freelancing all the time like he was prone to do last year. I think Tom is becoming the emotional leader of the defense by his passionate play. Austin had a quiet confidence and knew what he was doing. As the MLB, the players knew how much confidence BV was investing in him. I think the same thing is evolving with Tom.

[tooslow]

Prior to this season, I was concerned with our secondary and ability to stop teams that are good at throwing the ball. I'll admit that after the FSU game, I thought my fears were unfounded. I realize that the Tech game was only 1 game, but that was also our first game against a team with a great passing offense. Here's the national passing rankings of teams we've faced so far along with future opponents, with total offensive rankings in parentheses:

Tulsa: 47 (34)
FSU: 13 (35)
Mizzou: 54 (14)
Ball St: 42 (44)
Whorns: 103 (88)
Kansas: 89 (90)
Tech: 5 (11)

A&M: 18 (9)
Baylor: 12 (15)
Iowa St: 76 (67)
Okie Lite: 4 (3)

We are 1-1 against teams ranked in the top 15 in total offense, losing to the team ranked 5th in passing. The A&M game looks to be a great test to see how good our defense really is.

[NormanPride]

No doubt, this is a gut-check game for the D.

[cvsooner]

With two more tough offenses to follow, no less.

[oumartin]

Losing to a more talented team= understandable

Losing to a far inferior team once or twice a year=coaching

[C&CDean]

Yeah, cause everybody knows the coaches whiff on tackles, get out of position, and get hurt so inferior players have to play.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Losing to a more talented team= understandable

Losing to a far inferior team once or twice a year=coaching

Wow some of the greatest college coaches in history must have sucked in your eyes. Every one of them lost to teams that they were better than (at least on paper, not on the field that day). There is nothing a coach can do when an opposing difference maker gets hot.

[sooneron]

That's just crazy talk jkm!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

That's just crazy talk jkm!

Think about the coaches who lost to "inferior" teams with National Championships on their resume -> Bud Wilkinson, Barry Switzer, Tom Osborne, Pete Carroll, Lou Holtz, Nick Saban, Jim Tressell, Bobby Bowden, Jimmy Johnson...

Heck most of those losses to inferior teams were in bowl games, some of them (looking at you JJ) got us a MNC...

[vtsooner21]

Seems that the D hits well, but doesn't wrap up. Take a look back at the big plays that hurt the Sooners. Not as though they don't hit, but at times just don't wrap up. Is this the way of the future? Or is this just an anomaly?

Boomer

[tooslow]

I've noticed more and more players going for highlight reel hits, instead of wrapping up while making a hit. It's also not just players on our team, as I've seen a few "shoulder" tackles by other team's defenders as well.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I've noticed more and more players going for highlight reel hits, instead of wrapping up while making a hit. It's also not just players on our team, as I've seen a few "shoulder" tackles by other team's defenders as well.

Form Tackling is something that you have to continually reinforce. This isn't a new phenomenon as we talked about this when Everage was playing and when Rufus was playing etc...

[NormanPride]

And it's not just us, it's everywhere in football. Even the pros do it most of the time, which means that coaches everywhere must not think it's a big deal.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

And it's not just us, it's everywhere in football. Even the pros do it most of the time, which means that coaches everywhere must not think it's a big deal.

Oh they think its a big deal, even in those ESPNU videos you can hear them yell "wrap them up" several times. The problem is that its one of those things that you have to keep practicing until it becomes instinctual. In other words, practice limits by the NCAA have made it a rare commodity at the college level.

[NormanPride]

Then why do you see it at the pro level as well?

[PDXsooner]

One thing I've learned over the years is that people who can break down the X's and O's of the game are a dime a dozen. But teaching and implementing it and getting a bunch of 20 year old kids to execute it is a whole different story.

It's not like there are any schematic "discoveries" on this message board that at least someone on the OU coaching staff hasn't brought up or identified. It's just that getting a team to execute involves a whole list of variables that most of us are completely unfamiliar with on this level.

[tooslow]

Then why do you see it at the pro level as well?

Because they'll have a better chance of making SportCenter's Top 10?

[NormanPride]

One thing I've learned over the years is that people who can break down the X's and O's of the game are a dime a dozen. But teaching and implementing it and getting a bunch of 20 year old kids to execute it is a whole different story.

It's not like there are any schematic "discoveries" on this message board that at least someone on the OU coaching staff hasn't brought up or identified. It's just that getting a team to execute involves a whole list of variables that most of us are completely unfamiliar with on this level.

I don't know that anyone here is saying the coaches are completely unaware of these things... They look at a ton more tape than any of us do, and they see the kids in practice every day. What we're trying to do is address the widespread complaints on this board about generalized topics.

[BoulderSooner79]

Because they'll have a better chance of making SportCenter's Top 10?

Bingo!