Some Stats to Consider

[stoops the eternal pimp]

When comparing coaches and what they had to prepare for..I know this doesn't tell the whole story and I'm the first to tell you that you can make stats say whatever you want...Just took a few samples..

1999
7 teams attempted over 500 passes 2 in big 12(OU and Texas)
3 offenses in top 50 (OU at 9, texas at 17, aTM at43) in passing offense
3 offenses in total offense top 50 ( OU at 11, Texas at 29, NU at 44)
10 of the top 50 defenses where in the big 12 in 99( OU at 39th_)
Tennessee at 20th top sec school(3 sec schools in top 50)

2000
5 offenses in top 50( OU, Texas, Nebraska, Iowa State, Kstate) 1 top 10 offense
5 teams with over 500 passes(TT only big 12 school)
4 teams in top 50 in passing offense
Defense, 6 big 12 schools in top 50 in total defense( OU behind Kstate and texas at 8)
4 SEC defenses in top 50 (arkansas best at 12th)

2003
4 schools in top 50 in passing offense (OU,TT,Colorado , Kansas)
5 schools with over 500 attempted passes(TT, only big 12 school)
7 schools in top 50 offense
4 teams in top 50 defense( OU is 3rd)
5 sec schools in top 50(lSU is 1)

2008
10 teams in conference in top 50 in passing offense
5 teams in top 10 in total offense, 10 teams in top 50
5 teams alone in big 12 with 500 pass attempts
0 big 12 schools in top 50 in defense
11 SEC Schools in top 50 in total defense
2 teams in top 50 in passing offense for SEC..




2011
5 of top 10 teams in total offense Big 12
0 teams in top 20 SEC
4 out of top 10 passing offenses big 12
1 sec team in top 20
5 out of top 10 total defense SEC
Kstate is top defense at 29th in big 12
3 teams in top 50 for Big 12

[stoops the eternal pimp]

*Also any and all of these numbers can be off as I'm also doing work on a rundown on the lack of DBs in the big 12 and looking at lots of stuff.

[NormanPride]

What do you mean by the lack of DBs?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Lack of NFL quality DB talent in the Big 12..How the better ones have all migrated to the SEC

[jumperstop]

Defense wins championships....So for us to win another NC we need better defense. (ie a different conference where we don't prepare for passing teams all year and acctually get a chance to prepare for a team we might meet in a NCG...)

[stoops the eternal pimp]

You know that's a great way to look at it..

[85sooners]

d-fence!!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Lack of NFL quality DB talent in the Big 12..How the better ones have all migrated to the SEC

I don't think this is the case. I just think that they are being sucked up as WRs by every school running a spread.

[NormanPride]

Also a good point.

[madillsoonerfan5353]

Defense wins championships....So for us to win another NC we need better defense. (ie a different conference where we don't prepare for passing teams all year and acctually get a chance to prepare for a team we might meet in a NCG...)

I agree that Defense wins championships, but in the last two NC games we played we held the opponent under their season averages and still got beat. UF-24 and LSU-21. So I think our Offense factors into the equation a little as well. As in we cannot grind out yardage and run time off the clock. I think that this plays a part in our poor kick coverage as well. (I know we played some game in the Orange Bowl in 2005, but it was taken from the record books.) IMHO.

:gary:

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I don't think this is the case. I just think that they are being sucked up as WRs by every school running a spread.

Yeah, that is going on and has been..But the elite corners are shying away from this conference and maybe that's why..They are being told they want them at WR and they don't want to play that..I really don't know, but I don't think it's the best db's getting moved.

[madillsoonerfan5353]

I know that I’m an OU fan, but give me the Defensive unit that went to Tallahassee and play * in the Cotton Bowl and I would put a 100 dollars on them head to head against Bama and LSU to at a neutral site and I know this Defense would do their part in winning that game. It would be the Offense IMO that would once again cost us a NC.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I don't disagree with that..But they didn't have to face offensive juggernauts week after week either who threw the ball a majority of the time.

[NormanPride]

We're by no means awful, but key injuries have exposed how thin we are at certain positions. DT and CB specifically...

[madillsoonerfan5353]

We're by no means awful, but key injuries have exposed how thin we are at certain positions. DT and CB specifically...

THIS^^^^ That game Saturday showed that our #2's and 3's are not ready or good enough to play at this level. LSU didn't have any problems with 3 starters out. So is that on the coaches teaching or recruiting?

[jumperstop]

We're by no means awful, but key injuries have exposed how thin we are at certain positions. DT and CB specifically...

This certainly doesn't help.

[jumperstop]

THIS^^^^ That game Saturday showed that our #2's and 3's are not ready or good enough to play at this level. LSU didn't have any problems with 3 starters out. So is that on the coaches teaching or recruiting?

Ehh they pay their players and Lester sold his soul the the devil.....I thought we've played alright defense up until last week, with the exception being Mizzou.

[NormanPride]

What did LSU lose? A CB and a RB? Was the third guy a starter? Call me when they lose half their OL, their entire middle of their D, AND play a top 10 offense that week. Still, an unacceptable loss, and the backups played well enough to win (with the exception of the DTs). It was the starters that lost that game.

Back on topic, I don't know that I've seen many elite corners in the Big 12 recruiting areas go to schools outside the Big 12... But then again I don't follow recruiting a lot. Most of the top talent around the Big 12 stays in the Big 12. Same with the SEC...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Back on topic, I don't know that I've seen many elite corners in the Big 12 recruiting areas go to schools outside the Big 12... But then again I don't follow recruiting a lot. Most of the top talent around the Big 12 stays in the Big 12. Same with the SEC...

Good point..Looks like the majority of the top corners are coming out of different parts of the country..

Anyway, the main reason I posted those here was to show what Mike Stoops had to prepare for vs Venables.. The only thing the same is the team names but the league doesnt not resemble what it was back in the day..I dare say if he was DC and Venables had left, nothing would really be different.

[jumperstop]

What did LSU lose? A CB and a RB? Was the third guy a starter? Call me when they lose half their OL, their entire middle of their D, AND play a top 10 offense that week. Still, an unacceptable loss, and the backups played well enough to win (with the exception of the DTs). It was the starters that lost that game.

Back on topic, I don't know that I've seen many elite corners in the Big 12 recruiting areas go to schools outside the Big 12... But then again I don't follow recruiting a lot. Most of the top talent around the Big 12 stays in the Big 12. Same with the SEC...

So is this a regional thing? Are the highschools in the SEC country more defensive based than those coming out of the Big 12 territory? Or are Big 12 schools just scheming differently than SEC schools? Not that anyone will have an answer for these, more of something to think about. Basically why is there such a difference in where we see the talent in different conferences?

[NormanPride]

Well, I think it's more that a fairly high percentage of NFL talent in general comes from SEC country. Scheme and playcalling don't have a huge impact at the highschool level, I don't think. But there are more high population areas that love football in the SEC than in the Big 12.

I mean, in general it's no surprise that the best teams are around high population areas. A bigger population means a higher percentage chance that there is a stud out there. OU has Dallas, but is otherwise an anomaly, along with Nebraska. It also helps that SEC country is almost purely football-centric. Big 12 likes basketball and baseball, but the SEC on average couldn't care less about sports that don't involve tackling. :)

[SoonerAtKU]

Lets not forget that Auburn this year is high-school level on offense. They're back to square one without Newton and Malzahn. They're not going to challenge anyone defensively, so let's not chalk that one up to LSU's suffocating defense just yet.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Basically as a conference, we started out as the tough running, sound defense conference..Now we are the WAC with better talent...

[jumperstop]

Basically as a conference, we started out as the tough running, sound defense conference..Now we are the WAC with better talent...

This...I know our conference did well in the non-con, but I think the perception is that the spread is for soft teams who can't win with their strength and they have to use finess. I hope we start to see a shift back to defensive dominance....

[stoops the eternal pimp]

And that to happen, there would have to be shift in offenses again..As long as teams in this league are going to throw the ball 50 times a game, its going to be this way..

I know going back and looking at the teams Mike Stoops/Brent Venables had to game plan for vs what Venables does now, BV's job seems a lot harder now than it was then.

[8timechamps]

THIS^^^^ That game Saturday showed that our #2's and 3's are not ready or good enough to play at this level. LSU didn't have any problems with 3 starters out. So is that on the coaches teaching or recruiting?

You know, I've seen the LSU think mentioned a lot this past week. I disagree. They played Auburn, and don't let the media fool you in to thinking Auburn is good. Their offense is anemic (they're ranked 93rd in the country this week, and I think they weren't ranked much higher last week). And their defense isn't much better.

Had it been Arkansas they beat, you could make a case for LSU not missing a beat, but Auburn just isn't good.

[NormanPride]

I've always thought that, as a coach, you should analyze what your conference is doing, and do the opposite on offense. On defense, you look at what they are doing and gear up for it. But think about it. What is the conference geared towards? Spread out passing! What can beat those defenses? Grinding the ball down their tiny little throats, making their speed pointless and their smaller size a disadvantage.

On defense you do what the offenses are doing. But on O, you should do the exact opposite as everyone else.

[SoonerAtKU]

On defense you do what the offenses are doing. But on O, you should do the exact opposite as everyone else.

This is the primary reason OU was able to run up 5 in a row on Texas in the first part of the 2000s. Their DC was hired to beat Nebraska, A&M under Slocum, and OU under Blake. Their defense would have destroyed Texas' offense, too. They were just woefully unprepared for the way Stoops, Leach, and Mangino were going to change the way offenses in the Big XII would play.

To add to that, they had a read-react offense at the time that could be fooled into audibling into a set number of plays. Game, set, match, good guys.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

^great point

[NormanPride]

Didn't know that about their offense. That seems like a failure in philosophy to me. The defense should only marginally dictate what the offense does. Concentrate on matchups rather than plays, and if they're covering a particular matchup then switch plays and attack a different one.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I've always thought that, as a coach, you should analyze what your conference is doing, and do the opposite on offense. On defense, you look at what they are doing and gear up for it. But think about it. What is the conference geared towards? Spread out passing! What can beat those defenses? Grinding the ball down their tiny little throats, making their speed pointless and their smaller size a disadvantage.

On defense you do what the offenses are doing. But on O, you should do the exact opposite as everyone else.

Kind of like what Kansas State is doing?

[NormanPride]

Yeah, but a little more downhill rather than side to side.

[soonercoop1]

This D has been very average nationally for several seasons now...the scheme is too complicated and the coach has reached his ceiling...the D is a soft bend don't break style that might beat the weak sisters in the Big12 but never a team with a good physical D...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

It has, but noticing other teams in the conference, average defense seems to be the conference benchmark..

[Salt City Sooner]

This D has been very average nationally for several seasons now...the scheme is too complicated and the coach has reached his ceiling...the D is a soft bend don't break style that might beat the weak sisters in the Big12 but never a team with a good physical D...
I know it wasn's a vintage season to say the least, but we were #8 in the nation in total defense (#7 in scoring D) just 2 years ago. The vast majority of that season's struggles were on offense, obviously due to the huge number of injuries sustained on that side of the ball.

[soonercoop1]

I know it wasn's a vintage season to say the least, but we were #8 in the nation in total defense (#7 in scoring D) just 2 years ago. The vast majority of that season's struggles were on offense, obviously due to the huge number of injuries sustained on that side of the ball.

Sorry, forgot so OU had a good D 1 season out of the last 7...

[NormanPride]

We are consistently near the top in our conference, and considering almost every offense we play is now in the top 20, that's pretty dang good.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Sorry, forgot so OU had a good D 1 season out of the last 7...

That is some pretty intense confirmation bias you have there...

[NormanPride]

Your silly psychology hasn't produced the MNC any faster than his confirmation bias!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Your silly psychology hasn't produced the MNC any faster than his confirmation bias!

True. However, I think our fanbase focuses way too much on the alignmentee and not on the alignees (Of course, the quality of the alignees are also the responsibility of the alignmentee, but I digress). They tend to inflate the talent level of the alignee and not realize the shortcomings that the alignmentee has to overcome.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Here's another stat to consider - we're an elite football school and, yet, all of our kickers blow. All = 100%.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Here's another stat to consider - we're an elite football school and, yet, all of our kickers blow. All = 100%.

Before Stoops, the highest field goal % we had in history was around 68%. Expectations once again.

[cvsooner]

From soonersports.com: "Over the last two seasons, Oklahoma has made 38-of-47 field goals (81%)." And fans think we've missed them all? Puh-leeze. We've actually been pretty good at kicking field goals...just not from over 40 yards. And they don't give style points. 'Well, it was almost blocked.' But. It wasn't blocked.

[soonercoop1]

True. However, I think our fanbase focuses way too much on the alignmentee and not on the alignees (Of course, the quality of the alignees are also the responsibility of the alignmentee, but I digress). They tend to inflate the talent level of the alignee and not realize the shortcomings that the alignmentee has to overcome.

Either way coaching would be the culprit...a MNC is pretty much a pipe dream until OU gets back to a Top 10 D every season...