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View Full Version : OWS - A "Den of Thieves"???



soonercruiser
10/18/2011, 10:14 PM
Are these outside OWS thieves?
Or, just another part of the OWS fabric - "something for nothing"?

Thieves preying on fellow protestersOctober 18, 2011

NYPost.com By LARRY CELONA, LAURA ITALIANO REBECCA HARSHBARGER, FRANK ROSARIO and JAMIE SCHRAM

It’s a den of thieves!

Occupy Wall Street protesters said yesterday that packs of brazen crooks within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.

“Stealing is our biggest problem at the moment,” said Nan Terrie, 18, a kitchen and legal-team volunteer from Fort Lauderdale.

“I had my Mac stolen -- that was like $5,500. Every night, something else is gone. Last night, our entire [kitchen] budget for the day was stolen, so the first thing I had to do was . . . get the message out to our supporters that we needed food!”

Crafty cat burglars sneaked into the makeshift kitchen at Zuccotti Park overnight and swiped as much as $2,500 in donated greenbacks from right under the noses of volunteers who’d fallen asleep after a long day whipping up meals for the hundreds of hungry protesters, the volunteers said.

“The worst thing is there’s people sleeping in the kitchen when they come, and they don’t even know about it! There are some really smart and sneaky thieves here,” Terrie said.

“I had umbrellas stolen, a fold-up bed I brought because my back is bad -- they took that, too!”

Security volunteer Harry Wyman, 22, of Brooklyn was furious about the thievery -- and vowed to get tough with the predatory perps.

“I’m not getting paid, but I’m not gonna stand for it. Why people got to come here and do stupid stuff? All it does is make people not wanna come here anymore,” Wyman fumed.

At one point yesterday, Wyman and other volunteers briefly scuffled with a man who was standing near a park entrance with a pail calling out: “Donations! Donations!” -- and pocketing the cash people tossed in the bucket.

Meanwhile, the Rev. Jesse Jackson was at Zuccotti late last night as he and about 50 protesters formed a human chain in front of a medical tent after police officers came over to ask about the tent, cops and protesters said.

dwarthog
10/19/2011, 09:07 AM
Some share willingly, other not so much.

Their stuff you just have to take.

You know, money, computers, a$$.....

It is "fair" after all....

badger
10/19/2011, 09:12 AM
Can't say that I'm surprised. These people are protesting because they have nothing left to lose. So... stuff to gain just sits out for the taking? They take it.

There's a sense of desperation among them, like this is their last resort after being unemployed, up to their ears in debt and needing some type of relief from their financial woes.

Expensive stuff sitting out there unprotected amongst a bunch of people that have nothing to lose? You're gonna lose stuff to them.

sappstuf
10/19/2011, 09:52 AM
Can't say that I'm surprised. These people are protesting because they have nothing left to lose. So... stuff to gain just sits out for the taking? They take it.

There's a sense of desperation among them, like this is their last resort after being unemployed, up to their ears in debt and needing some type of relief from their financial woes.

Expensive stuff sitting out there unprotected amongst a bunch of people that have nothing to lose? You're gonna lose stuff to them.

There is a flaw in your logic. The reason there is expensive stuff is because there are people in the group that have lots of money or at least their parent do in the case of all the college age kids out there.

I bet there are more than a few trust fund babies out there protesting against "the rich".

dwarthog
10/19/2011, 10:18 AM
Based on this work, it doesn't come across as a crowd with "nothing left to lose"


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html



Our research shows clearly that the movement doesn't represent unemployed America and is not ideologically diverse. Rather, it comprises an unrepresentative segment of the electorate that believes in radical redistribution of wealth, civil disobedience and, in some instances, violence. Half (52%) have participated in a political movement before, virtually all (98%) say they would support civil disobedience to achieve their goals, and nearly one-third (31%) would support violence to advance their agenda.

The vast majority of demonstrators are actually employed, and the proportion of protesters unemployed (15%) is within single digits of the national unemployment rate (9.1%).

badger
10/19/2011, 10:24 AM
All right then, perhaps it's because they are looking for a redistribution of property as well as a redistribution of wealth?

You have a nice computer/camera/etc and I do not. I do now!

BU BEAR
10/19/2011, 10:42 AM
They have nothing to lose---well, except for that really sweet Mac Game System.

dwarthog
10/19/2011, 10:56 AM
:)
All right then, perhaps it's because they are looking for a redistribution of property as well as a redistribution of wealth?

You have a nice computer/camera/etc and I do not. I do now!

It certainly looks that way! :)

Breadburner
10/19/2011, 11:04 AM
5,500 for a laptop....What an idiot.....

dwarthog
10/19/2011, 11:08 AM
5,500 for a laptop....What an idiot.....

But, but, it was a MAC!

sappstuf
10/19/2011, 11:19 AM
5,500 for a laptop....What an idiot.....

Mommy and daddy probably bought it so their kid could protest...

TheHumanAlphabet
10/19/2011, 12:06 PM
Apple has one of the largest gross margins in history, what was it reported, like 42%. They are good and a "proper" OWS company. Evil ExxonMobil gross margin was like 18%. So why is Apple given the free pass? These people are idiots and clueless as hell. They just want to protest and change the world. But if the world looked like they want it to, it would collapose on itself in short order and then things would get really ugly. Then these idiots would be protesting the failure and want more change...

Midtowner
10/19/2011, 12:59 PM
Apple has one of the largest gross margins in history, what was it reported, like 42%. They are good and a "proper" OWS company. Evil ExxonMobil gross margin was like 18%. So why is Apple given the free pass? These people are idiots and clueless as hell. They just want to protest and change the world. But if the world looked like they want it to, it would collapose on itself in short order and then things would get really ugly. Then these idiots would be protesting the failure and want more change...

Most of their ire is focused at the way the corporate game is played, corporations' unequal role in the democratic process, executive compensation vs. compensation for the 99%, etc., not profit margins.

47straight
10/19/2011, 01:34 PM
Question - if your Mac notebook gets stolen, are you still a creative and unique individual?

47straight
10/19/2011, 01:35 PM
Most of their ire is focused at the way the corporate game is played, corporations' unequal role in the democratic process, executive compensation vs. compensation for the 99%, etc., not profit margins.

I'm pretty sure Steve Jobs made much more than folks on the assembly line making the iPhone.

GrapevineSooner
10/19/2011, 01:41 PM
I wish I could afford a $5,500 Mac. The Man must not be keeping some of these folks down too much if they can afford one.

badger
10/19/2011, 01:56 PM
I wish I could afford a $5,500 Mac. The Man must not be keeping some of these folks down too much if they can afford one.

Hmm, I can just see the justification to spending that now outta whoever got one:

"I couldn't afford not to get it!"

"It's not about what you can and can't afford, it's about whether the investment is worthwhile for the cost."

"It's not $5,500 if you put it on a credit card!"

^^^^ ding ding ding winnar!

soonercruiser
10/19/2011, 08:52 PM
Creativity a little slower, and a few gig short on long-term memory!

diverdog
10/19/2011, 10:30 PM
Most of their ire is focused at the way the corporate game is played, corporations' unequal role in the democratic process, executive compensation vs. compensation for the 99%, etc., not profit margins.

I think the rank and file Tea Party and OWS folks should get together without their corporate backers and then they would be a real threat. There should be real anger directed both at Wall Street and the Federal Government.

Frozen Sooner
10/19/2011, 10:44 PM
I don't think there IS a $5,500 mac notebook. The largest figure I could get the Apple Store online to admit to was $4,099 for the newest MacBookPro 17" with a 512GB solid-state hard drive. I mention the hard drive because the solid state drive was a $1,100 upgrade over the 720GB SATA drive that comes stock.

Midtowner
10/19/2011, 11:14 PM
This article sounds like some BS story told by the folks who are afraid of the OWS movement actually succeeding.

sooner_born_1960
10/20/2011, 08:05 AM
Yeah, that's probably it.

XingTheRubicon
10/20/2011, 08:14 AM
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/9871/fagsc.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/fagsc.jpg/)

47straight
10/20/2011, 12:41 PM
I don't think there IS a $5,500 mac notebook. The largest figure I could get the Apple Store online to admit to was $4,099 for the newest MacBookPro 17" with a 512GB solid-state hard drive. I mention the hard drive because the solid state drive was a $1,100 upgrade over the 720GB SATA drive that comes stock.

Maybe the number includes software.

47straight
10/20/2011, 12:42 PM
This article sounds like some BS story told by the folks who are afraid of the OWS movement actually succeeding.

Of course, it had to be a Fox News plant. That's the only logical explanation.

Frozen Sooner
10/20/2011, 12:56 PM
Maybe the number includes software.

I guess that's a reasonable explanation. Maybe he had Photoshop on it or something.

My point wasn't that the story was made up, BTW, just that the guy was exaggerating.

SicEmBaylor
10/20/2011, 01:01 PM
Color me skeptical.

My guess is that people are looking awfully hard for links to terrorist groups regardless of how loose and flimsy those links are. It's easier to stop the movement by yelling, "terrorist!" than it is to discredit their opinions.

Breadburner
10/20/2011, 01:53 PM
Question - if your Mac notebook gets stolen, are you still a creative and unique individual?

No the person that stole it is......:calm:

prrriiide
10/20/2011, 02:37 PM
Based on this work, it doesn't come across as a crowd with "nothing left to lose"


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html

Seriously, Clarence? You expect the WSJ to be objective about this? One of the loudest mouthpieces for conservatives and owned by Rupert Murcoch (you know - the guy that owns Faux News)? The same people that are absolutely dependent upon the goodwill of the power brokers on Wall St. in order to write any stories AT ALL? How did they get their "research?" By hacking the protesters phones?

Puh-leeze.


virtually all (98%) say they would support civil disobedience to achieve their goals

OH NOOOOHS!!!!

Civil disobedience...like the Selma Marches, the Bus Boycott, even Glenn "I'm a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic" Beck's rally in DC. Yes, I can see where civil disobedience is such an evil thing. God forbid anyone would ever throw tea into Boston harbor. This country was founded upon disobedience, civil or otherwise.

Find an organization with the same results that doesn't have skin in the game and a pre-determined political viewpoint like the WSJ, then get back to us.

Midtowner
10/20/2011, 02:57 PM
Of course, it had to be a Fox News plant. That's the only logical explanation.

Well let's look at it from this perspective. Logically, does the fact that some people who have comingled with the protesters are thieves make the protests more or less valid?

If it has no effect, then what's the motivation to report this?

BU BEAR
10/20/2011, 03:04 PM
Well let's look at it from this perspective. Logically, does the fact that some people who have comingled with the protesters are thieves make the protests more or less valid?


I find it fascinating that someone who is at a protest at which the overarching message is to use government coercion to take from the top 1% and redistribute to the so-called 99%ers would have a problem when his Mac, which has to be one of the 1% sweetest Macs in the U.S., gets jacked. What happened to his sense of communalism and egalitarianism? Oh, wait! Perhaps the point of the OWS Movement is that everyone should have their stuff yanked except the occupiers.

dwarthog
10/20/2011, 03:22 PM
Seriously, Clarence? You expect the WSJ to be objective about this? One of the loudest mouthpieces for conservatives and owned by Rupert Murcoch (you know - the guy that owns Faux News)? The same people that are absolutely dependent upon the goodwill of the power brokers on Wall St. in order to write any stories AT ALL? How did they get their "research?" By hacking the protesters phones?

Puh-leeze.



OH NOOOOHS!!!!

Civil disobedience...like the Selma Marches, the Bus Boycott, even Glenn "I'm a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic" Beck's rally in DC. Yes, I can see where civil disobedience is such an evil thing. God forbid anyone would ever throw tea into Boston harbor. This country was founded upon disobedience, civil or otherwise.

Find an organization with the same results that doesn't have skin in the game and a pre-determined political viewpoint like the WSJ, then get back to us.



WSJ was reporting a poll which was taken by people participating in the OWS event.

Construct the reality of your choice if you wish, the results of the poll indicate otherwise.

http://www.douglasschoen.com/pdf/Occupy_Wall_Street_Poll_Douglas_Schoen.pdf



Occupy Wall Street Survey Topline
Douglas E. Schoen, LLC
Results for the Occupy Wall Street survey are based on 198 face-to-face interviews
conducted in Zuccotti Park on October 10th and 11th.
1. Gender:
44% Female
56% Male
2. Age
49% 18-29
23% 30-39
15% 40-49
9% 50-64
4% 65+
3. Party: With which political party do you identify? {Open Ended}
*5% Anarchist
1% Constitutionalist
32% Democrat
4% Former/disillusioned Democrat
6% Independent
6% Libertarian
6% Socialist
3% Working Families Party
33% Do not identify with any political party
4% Not sure
4. Employment: Are you employed, underemployed, or unemployed?*
53%
18%
14%
15%
Employed
Part-time employed/ underemployed
Students
Unemployed
*
5. (if underemployed/unemployed) Did you lose your job recently as a result of the
economic downturn?*
82% Yes
18% No

etc....

Midtowner
10/20/2011, 04:14 PM
I find it fascinating that someone who is at a protest at which the overarching message is to use government coercion to take from the top 1% and redistribute to the so-called 99%ers would have a problem when his Mac, which has to be one of the 1% sweetest Macs in the U.S., gets jacked. What happened to his sense of communalism and egalitarianism? Oh, wait! Perhaps the point of the OWS Movement is that everyone should have their stuff yanked except the occupiers.

Or maybe that the 1% should pay its fair share as opposed to say.. 9-9-9?

sappstuf
10/20/2011, 04:28 PM
The average American worker in the bottom 5% of income earners is STILL richer than 68% of the world population..

I think that is pretty incredible and something to be proud of.

If these protesters really want the "rich" to pay their fair share they should probably realize that in the big scheme of things, they are pretty wealthy.

Nah... Hate the rich guy and take his money!!

Midtowner
10/20/2011, 04:33 PM
The average American worker in the bottom 5% of income earners is STILL richer than 68% of the world population..

I think that is pretty incredible and something to be proud of.

If these protesters really want the "rich" to pay their fair share they should probably realize that in the big scheme of things, they are pretty wealthy.

Nah... Hate the rich guy and take his money!!

I guess if we could all simultaneously have our current income and live in Ghana, that statistic would be meaningful.

dwarthog
10/20/2011, 04:38 PM
I guess if we could all simultaneously have our current income and live in Ghana, that statistic would be meaningful.

Maybe it would help to appreciate what you have instead of wishing for what others have?

Sooner98
10/20/2011, 05:00 PM
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/9871/fagsc.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/fagsc.jpg/)

Damn you for beating me to this. :smile:

sappstuf
10/20/2011, 05:03 PM
I guess if we could all simultaneously have our current income and live in Ghana, that statistic would be meaningful.

Oh man... You got me.. If only what I was talking about was adjusted for the cost of living in different countries, then we would be talking about consistent living standards worldwide.

Oh wait... It does.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/the-haves-and-the-have-nots/

We are not even close to the income equality of other countries because our "poor" are so rich.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/01/28/business/economy/economix-28milanovic/economix-28milanovic-custom1.jpg

Sooner98
10/20/2011, 05:16 PM
I guess if we could all simultaneously have our current income and live in Ghana, that statistic would be meaningful.

Does the average citizen of Ghana have air conditioning, color television with cable/satellite, an automobile, and an Xbox or Playstation, like the average "poor" person does here in the United States?

47straight
10/20/2011, 09:08 PM
Well let's look at it from this perspective. Logically, does the fact that some people who have comingled with the protesters are thieves make the protests more or less valid?

If it has no effect, then what's the motivation to report this?

Dude - let's be honest. It wasn't thieves. It was Fox News/WSJ/Rupert Murdoch plants posing as thieves.

47straight
10/20/2011, 09:09 PM
Seriously, Clarence? You expect the WSJ to be objective about this? One of the loudest mouthpieces for conservatives and owned by Rupert Murcoch (you know - the guy that owns Faux News)? The same people that are absolutely dependent upon the goodwill of the power brokers on Wall St. in order to write any stories AT ALL? How did they get their "research?" By hacking the protesters phones?

Puh-leeze.



OH NOOOOHS!!!!

Civil disobedience...like the Selma Marches, the Bus Boycott, even Glenn "I'm a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic" Beck's rally in DC. Yes, I can see where civil disobedience is such an evil thing. God forbid anyone would ever throw tea into Boston harbor. This country was founded upon disobedience, civil or otherwise.

Find an organization with the same results that doesn't have skin in the game and a pre-determined political viewpoint like the WSJ, then get back to us.


Agree with you that 98% supporting civil disobedience is no big deal.

Find your rant about the WSJ farcical.

prrriiide
10/21/2011, 03:20 AM
Find your rant about the WSJ farcical.

Find it however you want, but the fact remains that the WSJ editorial room is slanted so far to the right, Tony Hawk would be scared to skate it.

dwarthog
10/21/2011, 07:47 AM
Find it however you want, but the fact remains that the WSJ editorial room is slanted so far to the right, Tony Hawk would be scared to skate it.


Please regale us with those noted bastions of unbiased reporting!

soonercruiser
10/21/2011, 09:22 PM
Please regale us with those noted bastions of unbiased reporting!

Exactly!!!
:encouragement:

That's why I referred to it as a "random act of journalism!
(Soory...that's a "Rushism"; but very descriptive.)

TitoMorelli
10/22/2011, 12:04 AM
Civil disobedience...like the Selma Marches, the Bus Boycott, even Glenn "I'm a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic" Beck's rally in DC. Yes, I can see where civil disobedience is such an evil thing. God forbid anyone would ever throw tea into Boston harbor. This country was founded upon disobedience, civil or otherwise.

Find an organization with the same results that doesn't have skin in the game and a pre-determined political viewpoint like the WSJ, then get back to us.

So how does a boycott constitute civil disobedience? For that matter how does gathering in a park only after having obtained proper permission and permits constitute it? And how does crapping on police cars and in the doorways of other peoples' homes and businesses constitute patriotic dissent?

diverdog
10/22/2011, 05:41 AM
Oh man... You got me.. If only what I was talking about was adjusted for the cost of living in different countries, then we would be talking about consistent living standards worldwide.

Oh wait... It does.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/the-haves-and-the-have-nots/

We are not even close to the income equality of other countries because our "poor" are so rich.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/01/28/business/economy/economix-28milanovic/economix-28milanovic-custom1.jpg

I do not believe this chart is adjusted for purchasing power or if it is it is not adjusted for currency valuations. I also find it rather confusing. How can two countries have 100% of the worlds income? Does income include durable investments? Why use ventile instead of percentiles? Why pick 3 random countries? The chart is interesting but it is nothing that I would hang my hat on.

In my opinion the methodology known as the Gini coeffecient is a more reliable gauge of world income inequities.

soonercruiser
10/22/2011, 08:15 PM
So, Diver, are you saying the graph is worthless?