Wailing and gnashing of teeth: Special teams

[Fraggle145]

Since 2008 we have given up more touchdowns per kickoff than any program in the country.

Since 2007 we havent had a kickoff return touchdown.

Just sayin'.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[olevetonahill]

Bitch bitch bitch

[Fraggle145]

yeah yeah yeah. ;)

[olevetonahill]

yeah yeah yeah. ;)

:tickled_pink:

[Soonerjeepman]

we are 5 - 0 ranked #1 by coaches, #3 ap...and prob (God willing) play for the MNC...guess we got to complain about something....

reminds me of folks complaining about not "running" against the horns... a win is a win...

[NormanPride]

****, WE SUCK ***. ****, I HATE IT HOW BAD WE ARE.

[Mississippi Sooner]

Fire somebody!!!

[PalmBeachSooner]

Hire somebody!!!!

Like a special teams coach. Bring back Coach Hayes!

[LVSOONER15]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH That sucks!!! But keep on winning SOONERS!

[colleyvillesooner]

I gave Trotter that stat and data.

[BoulderSooner79]

The teams ranked behind us must be gawd-awful.

I like what Stoops said in his presser when someone brought up that stat. I don't care about what happened in previous years, those guys are not on this team (or to that effect). The coverage has been quite good this year with one mistake against the horns. It's weird how some types of plays bother folks more than others. Giving up a TD on a big pass play or long run play doesn't seem to have the same impact as a KO return. They all look like 6 points to me. And a missed FG seems to rile people so much more than a missed block that results in a sack/fumble on our QB. Mistakes will happen and the important point is how often and how does the team respond. Against the horns, our offense marched down the field in 2 minutes with no timeouts and regained the 24 point lead right before half. That's the way to handle things.

[ddub0224]

Fire somebody!!!

Clearly this is on Bob, fire him!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The teams ranked behind us must be gawd-awful.

I like what Stoops said in his presser when someone brought up that stat. I don't care about what happened in previous years, those guys are not on this team (or to that effect). The coverage has been quite good this year with one mistake against the horns. It's weird how some types of plays bother folks more than others. Giving up a TD on a big pass play or long run play doesn't seem to have the same impact as a KO return. They all look like 6 points to me. And a missed FG seems to rile people so much more than a missed block that results in a sack/fumble on our QB. Mistakes will happen and the important point is how often and how does the team respond. Against the horns, our offense marched down the field in 2 minutes with no timeouts and regained the 24 point lead right before half. That's the way to handle things.

When you simplify it down, this is a recruiting miss at kicker. If the kicker can kick it 7 yards deep there is pretty much zero chance of a kickoff return for a TD. The problem is if he kicks it between the 5 yard line and 2 yards deep - that seems to be the optimum distance for the wedge to set up and there be a crease by the time he gets to the wedge. Pre-Hunnicutt we were hitting it to the 5 yard line, now Hunnicutt seems to be hitting at the goal line to 5 yards deep.

[NormanPride]

Isn't O'Hara still doing it?

[8timechamps]

When you simplify it down, this is a recruiting miss at kicker. If the kicker can kick it 7 yards deep there is pretty much zero chance of a kickoff return for a TD. The problem is if he kicks it between the 5 yard line and 2 yards deep - that seems to be the optimum distance for the wedge to set up and there be a crease by the time he gets to the wedge. Pre-Hunnicutt we were hitting it to the 5 yard line, now Hunnicutt seems to be hitting at the goal line to 5 yards deep.

Agreed. We've missed on the kickers. Didn't we have a guy committed a few years ago that was a stud, but he ended up not coming? Maybe it was longer than a few years ago. Anyway, having a kicker that can stick it in the endzone is a major benefit.

[Landthief 1972]

Curious to know where OU ranked for the number of kickoffs vs. other BCS qualifier teams since 2007. A kick-to-return for TD ratio would give us a more accurate indication of whether it's a problem or not.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

It's a schematic failure just as it is in Oklahoma's return game for both punts and kick returns where Oklahoma consistently fails to block the gunners. Ryan Broyles is one of the best punt returners in the nation, but he never gets to show it because of poor punt return schemes. Oklahoma's only strengths in special teams is Way punting the ball and the potential of Hunnicutt.

It's easy to shrug off the kick-off return in this most recent OU/TX game since Oklahoma is undefeated and the score was lopsided, but it wasn't easy to shrug off when that was a pivotal play in the 2008 OU/TX game and the 2010 Missouri and ATM games and it damn near costed Oklahoma in the 2010 OU/OSU game. If kickoffs were still from the 35, it would be worth just kicking the kickoffs out of bounds with this group, but that extra 5 yards and having a team start at the 40 is just a little too close to the mid-field.

One thing I have noticed is all of the kick-offs that went for touchdowns against Oklahoma since the 2008 season is when the kickoffs went right down the middle of the field. Oklahoma covered them well when they kicked off to the left or right side of the field, especially the left side of the field.

[BoulderSooner79]

The KO return in the '08 OU/TX wasn't that pivotal.

[Fraggle145]

http://www.cfbstats.com/2010/leader/national/team/defense/split01/category05/sort05.html

Here is a good link. We were worst in the country last year. Good teams to compare us to can be found by sorting it by returns/game.

I'm not saying its a huge issue at the moment. Its just part of a worrisome trend. A free 7 points or good field position for the opposing team is never a good thing. It cost us the game against Mizzou last year.

I also like us having a good return game, which disappeared for some reason after Perkins left (yes I know he was teh awesome at it and a special return player) and after whoever it was touched the ball on our own red **** hair line in TGOWWDNS.

[BoulderSooner79]

http://www.cfbstats.com/2010/leader/national/team/defense/split01/category05/sort05.html

Here is a good link. We were worst in the country last year. Good teams to compare us to can be found by sorting it by returns/game.

I'm not saying its a huge issue at the moment. Its just part of a worrisome trend. A free 7 points or good field position for the opposing team is never a good thing. It cost us the game against Mizzou last year.

I also like us having a good return game, which disappeared for some reason after Perkins left (yes I know he was teh awesome at it and a special return player) and after whoever it was touched the ball on our own red **** hair line in TGOWWDNS.

That's a misleading list because it is sorted by TD returns and yes OU gave up the most. Other columns are not bad, especially the yds/ret at 21.5 assuming those TDs are averaged in there. It would be interesting to see what our average was not counting the scores. I.e. whether we put our D in a bad position all the time. And the good part was that we had a very high average of KO/game (lots of scores on our part). I also disagree it cost us the game at Mizzou. We had a 21-20 lead going into the 4th and got stomped from there. How a team performs in the 4th *heavily* out-weighs what it does in the 1st. But that was last year and I'm not ready to think we are going to be bad at return coverage this year because of 1 big play last week.

I don't remember Perkins doing KO returns, but maybe he did. He was awesome at punt returns, but so way Broyles in '09, so Perkins wasn't the last one. Not sure what we are doing differently than '09 because Broyles was a real weapon that season.

[cleller]

Boise and Oregon both had 90+ kickoffs to our 81, and none returned for a TD, while we had 4. Their average return yards per game was about 150 to our 124, though. Hard to argue that the extra 25 yards is worse than 4 TD's.

Hopefully if Hunnicutt can get the kicks deeper, this will improve.

[thecrimsoncrusader]

The KO return in the '08 OU/TX wasn't that pivotal.

Oklahoma was up 14-3 with 13 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter. At that point in time, Oklahoma was moving the ball well and Texas had negative rushing yards and wasn't moving the ball well in general. Based on game flow, it had the makings of Oklahoma going up 21-3, but instead, because of the easy kick-off return for a touchdown, the next thing you know it is 14-10. It was pivotal. Not as pivotal as Ryan Reynolds injury, but pivotal nonetheless.

[BoulderSooner79]

Oklahoma was up 14-3 with 13 minutes to go in the 2nd quarter. At that point in time, Oklahoma was moving the ball well and Texas had negative rushing yards and wasn't moving the ball well in general. Based on game flow, it had the makings of Oklahoma going up 21-3, but instead, because of the easy kick-off return for a touchdown, the next thing you know it is 14-10. It was pivotal. Not as pivotal as Ryan Reynolds injury, but pivotal nonetheless.

Can't convince me - can't say we are headed to 21-3 when we were kicking off to go on defense. Many times a quick score like that hurts the defense of the return team because they have no time to rest. That appeared to happen in this case. We got the ball after their return and scored in a few plays and the scoring play itself was a busted coverage where they let Gresham get behind them. It was the only obvious busted assignment in the game and it looked like it happened because the horn defense wasn't ready to come back on the field. So in less that 2 minutes of clock time, we trade quick scores and are back up by 11 again at 21-10 and are kicking off again with a normal return. And if you want to talk about "momentum" then I would say we should have it, because we are the ones with the most recent big play score. If they get charged up because of a KO return and we don't after a big Gresham TD, then we suck. Likewise, if we get deflated from giving up a KO return and they don't get deflated from giving up a big TD pass - then they are better than us anyway. Regardless, if a team can't overcome what happened in the first half, they don't deserve to win. We led as late as the 4th quarter.

Now if you want to talk pivotal, you are spot on about the Reynolds injury. They averaged ~3yds/play before and 8yds/play after - that's pivotal. And we still should have won, but fortunately the game didn't matter except for stimulating the banner-behind-airplanes industry.

[hornswaggled]

What perplexes me is how frequently our team has given up TD's during a kickoff in the past few years and how infrequently our kickers have put the ball out of play on KO. If it is true, as Fraggle145 cites, that our kids are scored on more than any other d1 team, then it is a problem. I know they we have overcome these coverage mistakes and gone on to win the game in many cases (I can't even say most cases with certainty, because it has happened so often.). However, IIRC the difference in score in at least 5 games that the Sooners lost in the last three years was equal to or less than the points that opponnents scored from KO returns for touchdown.

I know the KO coverage team did a lot better last year than they did prior. And they have done well this year, having only one KO return for TD in five games. Still, when the Sooners score a FG instead of a TD it always worries me that we may lose 4 points differential when we next kick off.

I also have no doubt that Coach Stoops is aware of his team's KO coverage record. Otherwise, he would assign me to research the data and make a report. I only hope it doesn't bite us in the rear during a crucial game as it has in the past.

--
My two cents

[thecrimsoncrusader]

Can't convince me - can't say we are headed to 21-3 when we were kicking off to go on defense.

I can say that given Texas couldn't move the ball (especially on the ground) until Reynolds injury and Oklahoma was moving the ball with ease. Based on the intel leading up to that point, it was very logical to assume Texas would be punting and more than likely, on their own side of the field. Based on what was transpiring on offense and defense by both teams at the time, it's very difficult to see Texas having the emotional fight in a scenario where the score was 21-3 even if the injury to Ryan Reynolds still transpired. Especially with Texas being traditionally weak mentally when it comes to teams fielded by Mack Brown. In any event, I've seen enough of your posts and I know myself well enough to know we will never agree regarding this discussion and that it would be an infinite loop. :-)

[tulsaoilerfan]

Maybe we've given up more TD's cause we kick off more than almost every team in the country? **** happens

[BoomerJ]

Isn't O'Hara still doing it?

Pretty sure it was O'Hara on the Texas return. We just need to teach our kickers how to tackle.

[colleyvillesooner]

Nope. You would think that, but of you do it on average TD per kickoffs, we are at 3%. That is 3x the national average from 2009-2011.

[BoulderSooner79]

I can say that given Texas couldn't move the ball (especially on the ground) until Reynolds injury and Oklahoma was moving the ball with ease. Based on the intel leading up to that point, it was very logical to assume Texas would be punting and more than likely, on their own side of the field. Based on what was transpiring on offense and defense by both teams at the time, it's very difficult to see Texas having the emotional fight in a scenario where the score was 21-3 even if the injury to Ryan Reynolds still transpired. Especially with Texas being traditionally weak mentally when it comes to teams fielded by Mack Brown. In any event, I've seen enough of your posts and I know myself well enough to know we will never agree regarding this discussion and that it would be an infinite loop. :-)

I'm a simple guy. From the 50,000 foot level, OU is kicking off with an 11 point lead and ~2 minutes later they are kicking off again with an 11 point lead. In the meantime, OU has had back-to-back offensive series that result in TDs while the UT offense has sat on the bench. The UT defense has had to play back to back series with no rest and no chance to make adjustments while the OU defense has done the opposite. The momentum of the last big play belongs to OU. Everything points to advantage OU. I'm not saying anyone would want to give up a KO return, but OU made it an advantage by responding. And they did the exact same thing last week by sandwiching that KO return with 2 TD drives. It turned to an even bigger advantage last week because the half prevented the horns from any kind of response.