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landrun
10/12/2011, 10:45 AM
These people are simply out of their minds.

They're Utopia would be the end of a civilized prosperous America.

They publicly, proudly call for a depraved society within a communist state.

This is the end game of the extreme left. And these people are the exact opposite of the Tea Party. The tea party wants a democratic fiscal responsible government.

"You are an ex-democracy. The era of democracy and capitalism is over. ... You can have sex with animals... "
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/yuck-occupy-wall-street-zombies-lastest-chant-you-can-have-sex-with-animals-video/

"...Long live revolution. Long live socialism..."
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/11/occupy-l-a-speaker-violence-will-be-necessary-to-achieve-our-goals/

KantoSooner
10/12/2011, 10:47 AM
Turn up the squelch on the sarcasm/irony screen.

KantoSooner
10/12/2011, 10:49 AM
Although, on second thought, I'd probably have more respect for anyone who'd stand in today's public square and openly advocate communism and bestiality. That'd take a pair worth buying a beer for.

landrun
10/12/2011, 10:58 AM
Its not sarcasm. And you know it.

The truth really will set you free. Denying reality does no one any good.

TUSooner
10/12/2011, 11:20 AM
These people are simply out of their minds.

They're Utopia would be the end of a civilized prosperous America.

They publicly, proudly call for a depraved society within a communist state.

This is the end game of the extreme left. And these people are the exact opposite of the Tea Party. The tea party wants a democratic fiscal responsible government.

"You are an ex-democracy. The era of democracy and capitalism is over. ... You can have sex with animals... "
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/yuck-occupy-wall-street-zombies-lastest-chant-you-can-have-sex-with-animals-video/

"...Long live revolution. Long live socialism..."
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/11/occupy-l-a-speaker-violence-will-be-necessary-to-achieve-our-goals/

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was a unanimous resolution. A bit like saying the Tea Party is a racist organization because a few crackers are in it. If I missed some irony, please excuse me.

But they sure have attracted a whole ship load of loonies losers and Leninists, unfortunatley.

KantoSooner
10/12/2011, 11:52 AM
Its not sarcasm. And you know it.

The truth really will set you free. Denying reality does no one any good.

Well, damn. Caught again.


purty little ewe, though.

NOW GIVE ME MY NEIGHBOR'S STUFF!

Ton Loc
10/12/2011, 01:17 PM
These people are simply out of their minds.


"You are an ex-democracy. The era of democracy and capitalism is over. ... You can have sex with animals... "
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/yuck-occupy-wall-street-zombies-lastest-chant-you-can-have-sex-with-animals-video/


I thought landrun wrote some outlandish stuff, but did anyone read the comments below the video?

This one was pretty funny:



David Brehan commented:


Waiting to hear them advocate for chicken love, I got distracted trying to find one–ONE–black person in the crowd. Because as we learned with the Tea Party, you are not a legitimate movement if you are mostly white.

dwarthog
10/12/2011, 02:37 PM
I thought landrun wrote some outlandish stuff, but did anyone read the comments below the video?


David Brehan commented:


Waiting to hear them advocate for chicken love, I got distracted trying to find one–ONE–black person in the crowd. Because as we learned with the Tea Party, you are not a legitimate movement if you are mostly white.


This one was pretty funny:

Well, now that it has been pointed out there is a deficiency in the make up of their demographics, expect to see a new craigslist ad soon.....

soonercruiser
10/12/2011, 03:07 PM
Although, on second thought, I'd probably have more respect for anyone who'd stand in today's public square and openly advocate communism and bestiality. That'd take a pair worth buying a beer for.

Pretty much what I would expect!
:distant:

KantoSooner
10/12/2011, 03:29 PM
I take it you find the act of publically advocating communism AND bestiality all in one go to be a commonplace?
I find it rather out there and something that probably would earn a person opprobrium and quite possibly an *** kicking.
Plus it's utterly weird. (I'm not sure which is weirder, communism or sexual desire for animals, perhaps it's a dead heat).
I don't have to support either one to at least admire the spectacle of someone going down in a blaze.

Sooner98
10/12/2011, 03:37 PM
Wrap your heads around this for a minute: these protestors are protesting against a system of government (democracy/freedom) where it is legal to assemble and protest against the government, probably in favor of a new system (Communism) in which their right to assemble and protest against the government is taken away and made illegal.

Whoever compares these fringe lunatics to the Tea Party needs to have their head examined.

soonercruiser
10/12/2011, 03:38 PM
Why would anyone of "good will" revile in the spectacle of another human being's demise?

I wouldn't even wish that on Obama, as much as he wants to destroy the country.

soonercruiser
10/12/2011, 03:39 PM
Just curious...
If they are the 99%, are the animals the other 1%?
(sarcasm)

Midtowner
10/12/2011, 03:43 PM
Did you take a survey? How many of them want communism and bestiality?

TUSooner
10/12/2011, 03:56 PM
Wrap your heads around this for a minute: these protestors are protesting against a system of government (democracy/freedom) where it is legal to assemble and protest against the government, probably in favor of a new system (Communism) in which their right to assemble and protest against the government is taken away and made illegal.

Whoever compares these fringe lunatics to the Tea Party needs to have their head examined.

Wrsp your head around this: You don't really know -- or care -- what OWS is about. You, like the rest of your stampeding herd, read an example of the weirdest OWS elements and jump to the extreme conclusion that they ALL are anti-USA and anti-capitalism all a bunch of Leninist cadres waiting for the moment to impose Bolsehvism from the top down. Some people in the TP movement are far-right nut jobs. Does that mean the TP's goal of limited government is racist and loony? NO is the answer to that. Just because there are some left-wing wackos hanging out with OWS does that mean that all the rest are commies? NO is also the answer to that. Stop being a sucker for every piece of neat and agreeable propaganda you hear.

KantoSooner
10/12/2011, 03:58 PM
I wouldn't necessarily revel in watching someone go down in flames. But, it someone reeeeeaaaaallllly wanted to make such statements, I'd support their right to do so and respect their jutzpah in doing so.

Kind of like watching the guy at the rock concert climb the greased telephone pole naked. You know it's a bad idea, you know he's going to regret it but you are not going to fight him to stop him. and you'll probably cheer like the rest of the fools when he makes it to the top.

Sooner98
10/12/2011, 04:09 PM
Wrsp your head around this: You don't really know -- or care -- what OWS is about. You, like the rest of your stampeding herd, read an example of the weirdest OWS elements and jump to the extreme conclusion that they ALL are anti-USA and anti-capitalism all a bunch of Leninist cadres waiting for the moment to impose Bolsehvism from the top down. Some people in the TP movement are far-right nut jobs. Does that mean the TP's goal of limited government is racist and loony? NO is the answer to that. Just because there are some left-wing wackos hanging out with OWS does that mean that all the rest are commies? NO is also the answer to that. Stop being a sucker for every piece of neat and agreeable propaganda you hear.

I'm not reading propoganda, nor am I jumping to any extreme conclusions - I am listening to their very words and watching their reactions. Watch the video again and listen for the widespread applause in the audience when the speaker boldly proclaims the demise of democracy and capitalism. There are many other videos out there with the same stuff going on, but this should be your first clue as to what this movement is really all about.

Ton Loc
10/12/2011, 05:16 PM
I'm not reading propoganda, nor am I jumping to any extreme conclusions - I am listening to their very words and watching their reactions. Watch the video again and listen for the widespread applause in the audience when the speaker boldly proclaims the demise of democracy and capitalism. There are many other videos out there with the same stuff going on, but this should be your first clue as to what this movement is really all about.

This movement is widespread across the country, but because you pick out one extreme circumstance; from one city; in one specific crowd of people - you can logically deduce that this is the real message to the movement and not an isolated incident.

You should go downtown to our version of the "movement", I suspect you'll find something much different down there.

TUSooner
10/12/2011, 05:18 PM
I'm not reading propoganda, nor am I jumping to any extreme conclusions - I am listening to their very words and watching their reactions. Watch the video again and listen for the widespread applause in the audience when the speaker boldly proclaims the demise of democracy and capitalism. There are many other videos out there with the same stuff going on, but this should be your first clue as to what this movement is really all about.

Alright, so let's say - for argument's sake at least - that there are more loonies involved with OWS than I want to admit. Does that mean that no one in the OWS has a legitimate complaint about how corporate execs are behaving, especially in light of taxpayer bailouts? Is it allright, or beyond any criticism, that corprations, which have no consciences of their own, are raking in great profits and paying exhorbitant exec salaries at the expense of employees and customers &c. (See NP's burp link) Is this not happening? Is it no big deal? Is it an unavoidable part of free enterprise? Can nothing be done? Should nothing be done?

My gripe is that the stink and noise of the unseemlier parts of the crowd are being used as a cheap excuse to avoid the substance of what the more responsible critics are saying. (See NP's burp link again) I can't help but think that too many conservatives equate Megabiz, Inc. with free enterprise and capitalism as a whole, when maybe it's not so. If multinational mega-corporations can call all the shots, there's a danger to more than a few pocketbooks, but also to the physical environment and even the sovereignty of the nation. (CF- British East India Co.) I think you put your faith in Megabiz, Inc. at your pwn peril, and everyone else's, too.

Midtowner
10/12/2011, 05:22 PM
I'm not reading propoganda,

Really? thegatewaypundit.com is something you consider as an unbiased news source?


nor am I jumping to any extreme conclusions - I am listening to their very words and watching their reactions.

Define "they." The people in the video? How many of those people are there? How do you know those people represent the opinion of the body at large? Hint: You have no Earthly idea.


Watch the video again and listen for the widespread applause in the audience when the speaker boldly proclaims the demise of democracy and capitalism.

Most Tea Partiers would agree that such a thing has already happened. Citizens United pretty much killed off Democracy and crony capitalism isn't really capitalism in its true sense. Both are arguably dead. It could be applause of agreement. It could be a clique of people who don't represent the will of the body at large. You just don't know.


There are many other videos out there with the same stuff going on, but this should be your first clue as to what this movement is really all about.

A plurality of anecdotes ain't evidence.

MR2-Sooner86
10/12/2011, 07:57 PM
Animal f*cking communist are people too.

SouthCarolinaSooner
10/12/2011, 10:30 PM
Wrap your heads around this for a minute: these protestors are protesting against a system of government (democracy/freedom) where it is legal to assemble and protest against the government, probably in favor of a new system (Communism) in which their right to assemble and protest against the government is taken away and made illegal.

Whoever compares these fringe lunatics to the Tea Party needs to have their head examined.
Wrap your little head around this for a minute, Communism isn't a system of government. It can be blamed for a whole lot of things, removing people's right to assemble and protest ain't one of 'em.

diverdog
10/12/2011, 10:38 PM
Really? thegatewaypundit.com is something you consider as an unbiased news source?



Define "they." The people in the video? How many of those people are there? How do you know those people represent the opinion of the body at large? Hint: You have no Earthly idea.



Most Tea Partiers would agree that such a thing has already happened. Citizens United pretty much killed off Democracy and crony capitalism isn't really capitalism in its true sense. Both are arguably dead. It could be applause of agreement. It could be a clique of people who don't represent the will of the body at large. You just don't know.



A plurality of anecdotes ain't evidence.

Funny how the righties are still using there is a commie behind every tree when they hear something they don't like.

Sooner98
10/12/2011, 11:08 PM
http://www.cpusa.org/solidarity-with-occupy-wall-street-teleconference-oct-11/

From the Communist Party USA website (yes, the Communist website itself, not a right-wing propoganda site), how they are working hand-in-hand with OWS:


This is an exciting time! Thousands of mainly young people have been occupying Wall Street for three weeks already, and the “Occupy Movement” has spread to more than 200 other cities. On Oct. 6 the actions spread to our nation’s capital.

The Communist Party USA (CPUSA) will hold a national teleconference to discuss it:

Arturo Cambron
The Communist Party and the Occupy L.A. Movement
Tuesday, October 11, 8 pm Eastern
Teleconference number: 605-475-4850 (please note this is the corrected number. ignore previous.)
Access code: 1053538#

Southern California Party leader Arturo Cambron will share how the CPUSA and Young Communist League (YCL) are working in “Occupy Los Angeles.”

This movement, also known as the “99% movement,” is being hailed across the country. Movements and organizations are reaching out in solidarity. The AFL-CIO is opening union halls and offering other material assistance. Ordinary people are donating food, money and materials.

In many areas, the “Occupy Movement” is linking up with the National American Wants to Work Week of Actions, Oct. 10-16.

No doubt the “Arab Spring” demonstrations and those that exploded in Wisconsin, Ohio and elsewhere have inspired it. But underlying it all is the economic crisis, the massive unemployment and growing realization that nothing is getting better, and in fact we may be slipping into a “double dip” crisis. The crushing student debt and the feeling of being locked out of society with no future compound this.

The movement is the newest wrinkle in the all-people’s upsurge against the banks and corporations and reflects a new level of class-consciousness.

While there is a wide range of political and ideological trends, there is a consensus against corporate greed, getting money out of politics, taxing the rich and putting people before profits.

A big challenge for the CPUSA and left, progressive movements is to link these demonstrations with the labor led all-people’s coalition and help deepen understanding that the path to progress must be through electoral and political action including defeating Republican Tea Party reaction in 2012.

Of primary importance is linking it with the burgeoning fight for jobs and especially passage of the American Jobs Act.

We can also play a role in offering more advanced programmatic ideas like nationalizing the banks and socialism.

To have a positive impact, the CPUSA and YCL must be a part of the “Occupy” movement, participating at every level and building greater local support for the actions among labor and progressive forces.

See you all on the call October 11!

SouthCarolinaSooner
10/12/2011, 11:15 PM
http://www.cpusa.org/solidarity-with-occupy-wall-street-teleconference-oct-11/

From the Communist Party USA website (yes, the Communist website itself, not a right-wing propoganda site), how they are working hand-in-hand with OWS:
Quick, to the Un-American Activities Committee!

Midtowner
10/13/2011, 12:40 AM
Funny how the righties are still using there is a commie behind every tree when they hear something they don't like.

Historically speaking, the further to the right they push things and the wider the income disparity becomes, the more they have to fear from the real live commies. This bit of fear is just a bunch of B.S. propaganda trying to distract from the real message here.

TUSooner
10/13/2011, 08:20 AM
http://www.cpusa.org/solidarity-with-occupy-wall-street-teleconference-oct-11/

From the Communist Party USA website (yes, the Communist website itself, not a right-wing propoganda site), how they are working hand-in-hand with OWS:
You still havent answered this:

Alright, so let's say - for argument's sake at least - that there are more loonies involved with OWS than I want to admit. Does that mean that no one in the OWS has a legitimate complaint about how corporate execs are behaving, especially in light of taxpayer bailouts? Is it allright, or beyond any criticism, that corprations, which have no consciences of their own, are raking in great profits and paying exhorbitant exec salaries at the expense of employees and customers &c. (See NP's burp link) Is this not happening? Is it no big deal? Is it an unavoidable part of free enterprise? Can nothing be done? Should nothing be done?

My gripe is that the stink and noise of the unseemlier parts of the crowd are being used as a cheap excuse to avoid the substance of what the more responsible critics are saying. (See NP's burp link again) I can't help but think that too many conservatives equate Megabiz, Inc. with free enterprise and capitalism as a whole, when maybe it's not so. If multinational mega-corporations can call all the shots, there's a danger to more than a few pocketbooks, but also to the physical environment and even the sovereignty of the nation. (CF- British East India Co.) I think you put your faith in Megabiz, Inc. at your own peril, and everyone else's, too.

I know, you're still jerking it in your delirious red menace trance. Communists generally favor ANYTHING that might help them, even for a minute, by the way, so you really continue to prove nothing of import.

KantoSooner
10/13/2011, 08:33 AM
Wrap your little head around this for a minute, Communism isn't a system of government. It can be blamed for a whole lot of things, removing people's right to assemble and protest ain't one of 'em.

How can you make this statement? A prime tenet of communist thought is primary leadershiop position of the party...to the point of exclusion of all other voices. Arguably this can be derived from sources all the way back to the Hegelian dialectic. Removal of all voices in the society save that of the party is a fundamental core belief of communism.

dwarthog
10/13/2011, 08:41 AM
Wrap your little head around this for a minute, Communism isn't a system of government. It can be blamed for a whole lot of things, removing people's right to assemble and protest ain't one of 'em.

WTF?




Definition of COMMUNISM
1
a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2
capitalized a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably


Definition of TOTALITARIAN
1
a : of or relating to centralized control by an autocratic leader or hierarchy : authoritarian, dictatorial; especially : despotic b : of or relating to a political regime based on subordination of the individual to the state and strict control of all aspects of the life and productive capacity of the nation especially by coercive measures (as censorship and terrorism)
2
a : advocating or characteristic of totalitarianism b : completely regulated by the state especially as an aid to national mobilization in an emergency c : exercising autocratic powers

XingTheRubicon
10/13/2011, 08:54 AM
Wrap your little head around this for a minute, Communism isn't a system of government. It can be blamed for a whole lot of things, removing people's right to assemble and protest ain't one of 'em.


[hairGel]
THAT'S NOT TRUE!!!!

sappstuf
10/13/2011, 09:25 AM
Alright, so let's say - for argument's sake at least - that there are more loonies involved with OWS than I want to admit. Does that mean that no one in the OWS has a legitimate complaint about how corporate execs are behaving, especially in light of taxpayer bailouts? Is it allright, or beyond any criticism, that corprations, which have no consciences of their own, are raking in great profits and paying exhorbitant exec salaries at the expense of employees and customers &c. (See NP's burp link) Is this not happening? Is it no big deal? Is it an unavoidable part of free enterprise? Can nothing be done? Should nothing be done?

My gripe is that the stink and noise of the unseemlier parts of the crowd are being used as a cheap excuse to avoid the substance of what the more responsible critics are saying. (See NP's burp link again) I can't help but think that too many conservatives equate Megabiz, Inc. with free enterprise and capitalism as a whole, when maybe it's not so. If multinational mega-corporations can call all the shots, there's a danger to more than a few pocketbooks, but also to the physical environment and even the sovereignty of the nation. (CF- British East India Co.) I think you put your faith in Megabiz, Inc. at your pwn peril, and everyone else's, too.

I think deep in your heart you already know there more loonies there than you care to admit. There are a bunch of anarchists and socialists and general loonies that want to draw attention to themselves, have been trying to do so for years and now they finally have their chance.

The fact that you keep refering to NP's burp link from Business Insider, a company that makes its money by following corporations, instead of information coming from the OWSs tells me the OWSs have a message problem.

Ton Loc
10/13/2011, 09:45 AM
I think deep in your heart you already know there more loonies there than you care to admit. There are a bunch of anarchists and socialists and general loonies that want to draw attention to themselves, have been trying to do so for years and now they finally have their chance.

The fact that you keep refering to NP's burp link from Business Insider, a company that makes its money by following corporations, instead of information coming from the OWSs tells me the OWSs have a message problem.

I don't think they (OWS) have a message problem as much as they have a problem with media outlets covering these niche, outlier, crazy people groups that continue to try to attach themselves to OWS. This is clouding the overall message of OWS, making people focus on the wrong things, and sucking the importance of the true message.

This is most effective on people like Sooner98 and Soonercruiser. C'mon guys, don't be so easily swayed.

sappstuf
10/13/2011, 10:22 AM
I don't think they (OWS) have a message problem as much as they have a problem with media outlets covering these niche, outlier, crazy people groups that continue to try to attach themselves to OWS. This is clouding the overall message of OWS, making people focus on the wrong things, and sucking the importance of the true message.

This is most effective on people like Sooner98 and Soonercruiser. C'mon guys, don't be so easily swayed.

The thing is, I those niche, outlier, crazy people have been with it from the very start. For instance, here is the website that has posts all the way back to June calling for organization for OWS.

http://occupywallst.org/

It isn't hard to find websites like Socialist Party USA, that directly links to that website and is giving places and dates of where to protest.

http://socialistparty-usa.org/occupywallstreet.html

You say that the crazies have attached themselves to OWS, you might have it somewhat backwards.. The regular people attached themselves to the crazies.

NormanPride
10/13/2011, 10:23 AM
But being easily swayed is fun and doesn't require thinking...

TitoMorelli
10/13/2011, 10:26 AM
Seems to me that the lame-stream media has, with a few exceptions, avoided focusing on the weirdos and slackers in the crowd, whose numbers are far greater than some of you are willing to accept or admit.

Some of those who live or work in the Zucotti Park area have a new slogan now:


"I CAN SMELL ALINSKY FROM MY FRONT DOOR"

TUSooner
10/13/2011, 10:28 AM
I think deep in your heart you already know there more loonies there than you care to admit. There are a bunch of anarchists and socialists and general loonies that want to draw attention to themselves, have been trying to do so for years and now they finally have their chance.

The fact that you keep refering to NP's burp link from Business Insider, a company that makes its money by following corporations, instead of information coming from the OWSs tells me the OWSs have a message problem.

You are still avoiding the message by pooping on... well, not even the messenger, but the messenger's "friends". (And that's even after I have conceded for the sake of arguemnt that OWS attracts loonies!) Face it, your ilk are in over your heads as soon as you are asked to do something besides regurgitate slogans and simplistic talking points.

Ton Loc
10/13/2011, 10:54 AM
The thing is, I those niche, outlier, crazy people have been with it from the very start. For instance, here is the website that has posts all the way back to June calling for organization for OWS.

http://occupywallst.org/

It isn't hard to find websites like Socialist Party USA, that directly links to that website and is giving places and dates of where to protest.

http://socialistparty-usa.org/occupywallstreet.html

You say that the crazies have attached themselves to OWS, you might have it somewhat backwards.. The regular people attached themselves to the crazies.

Please, go to downtown OKC, visit with the people there that are apart of OWS. You'll have a hard time finding those crazies, but you will find a ton of out of work older people and a lot of people in their late twenties wondering what the hell happened.

sappstuf
10/13/2011, 11:04 AM
You are still avoiding the message by pooping on... well, not even the messenger, but the messenger's "friends". (And that's even after I have conceded for the sake of arguemnt that OWS attracts loonies!) Face it, your ilk are in over your heads as soon as you are asked to do something besides regurgitate slogans and simplistic talking points.

Your argument is wrong. The OWS ARE the loonies along with a few common sense people sprinkled in and their message is fine.

By simplistic talking points do you mean

"Hey hey, ho ho, wall street greed has got to go!"

I guess that brilliant message will solve everything.... And off topic, but can left wing protesters please come up with some other chant.. Good grief.

Liberals are always concerned about things being fair. It isn't fair that rich people have money and we don't.. It isn't fair I have to pay my student loans back.. It isn't fair that rich people can risk large amounts of their own wealth and then be taxed at 15% if they are lucky enough to make a profit.

I find this very odd. One of the first lessons we teach children is that life in all its variabilites isn't fair. It never has been and never will be. It isn't fair my kids have to worry about fire ants and scorpions in Texas when kids in Connecticut don't. It isn't fair my kids cannot play outside in the sprinkler because of water restrictions. Oh well. I don't think we should fly scorpions around the country to level the playing field.. Rich kids probably get stung at a lesser rate by scorpions and fire ants than people of lesser wealth.

Who cares. Class envy and jealousy gets the country no where and that is at least an underlying message that is being sent out by the OWSs even if unintentional. And that is ironic, because at the end of the day, our "poor" are the wealthiest poor the world has ever seen.

TUSooner
10/13/2011, 11:07 AM
Please, go to downtown OKC, visit with the people there that are apart of OWS. You'll have a hard time finding those crazies, but you will find a ton of out of work older people and a lot of people in their late twenties wondering what the hell happened.

Why would anybody want to do that? It would only complicate things. It's much easier to say "they're loonies and commies" than to admit there are any sane ones and - heaven forbid! - to see what they are actually saying.

sappstuf
10/13/2011, 11:19 AM
Please, go to downtown OKC, visit with the people there that are apart of OWS. You'll have a hard time finding those crazies, but you will find a ton of out of work older people and a lot of people in their late twenties wondering what the hell happened.

http://cdn.elev8.com/files//2009/04/obama_pointing_small.jpg

His stimulus was a disaster, a failure by its own standards.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d102/sappstuf/stimulus.jpg

You can't say he didn't know how bad it was because he campaigned on the fact that it was the worst depression since the great depression and he had the medicine. He passed exactly what the Dems wrote up and locked the Repubs out.

What exactly has changed in the way Wall Street operates in the past 5 years? Honestly? Not much.. It is just an easy target when things are going bad and there is no doubt that things are going badly right now. Obama continously engaging in class warfare doesn't help either.. at all. But that is his background and what he does, I get it.

I don't mind people going out and protesting, I'm glad they are passionate enough to do so. But I doubt this group will have the impact on the 2012 elections as the tea party did on the 2010 elections.

TUSooner
10/13/2011, 11:22 AM
Your argument is wrong. The OWS ARE the loonies along with a few common sense people sprinkled in and their message is fine.

By simplistic talking points do you mean

"Hey hey, ho ho, wall street greed has got to go!"

I guess that brilliant message will solve everything.... And off topic, but can left wing protesters please come up with some other chant.. Good grief.

Liberals are always concerned about things being fair. It isn't fair that rich people have money and we don't.. It isn't fair I have to pay my student loans back.. It isn't fair that rich people can risk large amounts of their own wealth and then be taxed at 15% if they are lucky enough to make a profit.

I find this very odd. One of the first lessons we teach children is that life in all its variabilites isn't fair. It never has been and never will be. It isn't fair my kids have to worry about fire ants and scorpions in Texas when kids in Connecticut don't. It isn't fair my kids cannot play outside in the sprinkler because of water restrictions. Oh well. I don't think we should fly scorpions around the country to level the playing field.. Rich kids probably get stung at a lesser rate by scorpions and fire ants than people of lesser wealth.

Who cares. Class envy and jealousy gets the country no where and that is at least an underlying message that is being sent out by the OWSs even if unintentional. And that is ironic, because at the end of the day, our "poor" are the wealthiest poor the world has ever seen.

That's actually close to an answer, albeit rambling and accidental. I take it as: "Nothing should be done, nothing needs to be done, because any 'unfairness' is just a necessary part of free enterprise." Is that accurate? I don't necessarily agree with that or mock it either. It's a thought to consider.

More questions, though:
Does this "laissez faire" apply to directors getting lushly compensated for leading companies into a taxpayer bailout that was worked out by a crony Government? Are you happy trusting the future of capitalism and your nation to Megabiz, Inc.? If you are, just say it.

cleller
10/13/2011, 11:26 AM
Why don't "occupy" the business end of some tools, shovels, etc, and go build houses for the poor, or a fence around Canada?

How do they feel about the alternatives to the bailouts? Lots more people would have lost jobs in the the auto industries, banks, etc, that might never come back.

TUSooner
10/13/2011, 11:26 AM
His stimulus was a disaster, a failure by its own standards {blah blah blah it's always Obama's fault} I bet you were a dodgeball champ.

soonercruiser
10/13/2011, 11:30 AM
Alright, so let's say - for argument's sake at least - that there are more loonies involved with OWS than I want to admit. Does that mean that no one in the OWS has a legitimate complaint about how corporate execs are behaving, especially in light of taxpayer bailouts? Is it allright, or beyond any criticism, that corprations, which have no consciences of their own, are raking in great profits and paying exhorbitant exec salaries at the expense of employees and customers &c. (See NP's burp link) Is this not happening? Is it no big deal? Is it an unavoidable part of free enterprise? Can nothing be done? Should nothing be done?

My gripe is that the stink and noise of the unseemlier parts of the crowd are being used as a cheap excuse to avoid the substance of what the more responsible critics are saying. (See NP's burp link again) I can't help but think that too many conservatives equate Megabiz, Inc. with free enterprise and capitalism as a whole, when maybe it's not so. If multinational mega-corporations can call all the shots, there's a danger to more than a few pocketbooks, but also to the physical environment and even the sovereignty of the nation. (CF- British East India Co.) I think you put your faith in Megabiz, Inc. at your pwn peril, and everyone else's, too.

For arguments sake, let's say that this is a discussion about demonizing the Tea Party rallies?
I understand, and agree completely with your logic TU, regarding there being some legitimate "beefs" in the OWS crowd.

BUT....the problem here is that you and the other liberal leaning posters on this forum were making hay against the Tea Party at the time of their rallies against big government and out-of-control spending. You all were the LW "stampeding herd" at that time!
And, now you expects us, as the opposition thought process to be sympathetic to pointing out the higher percentage of complete flaming idiots and anarchists in the OWS crowds.
:distant:

soonercruiser
10/13/2011, 11:37 AM
Wrap your little head around this for a minute, Communism isn't a system of government. It can be blamed for a whole lot of things, removing people's right to assemble and protest ain't one of 'em.

This statement is completely unbelievable!
Yup! During the height of communism in the Soviet Union and Mao's China large groups of protesters were seen every day on their streets! Right!
Tell that to all the people who ended up in the gulags, labor camps, or just plain dead!
I supposed the Nazi death camps weren't real either????
:stupid:

soonercruiser
10/13/2011, 11:41 AM
"Life isn't fair"!!! Get over it!

Some people make bad decisions.
Some people have bad parent(s)!
Some people get cancer!
Some people loose their shirts, trying to take advantage of the system.

Take one of the OWS protesters - wants a high paying job - Columbia graduate with Liberal Arts Degree???
:stupid: $100K in educational debt!
Whats she gonna do with that education? Get paid for painting on sidewalks?

sappstuf
10/13/2011, 11:48 AM
That's actually close to an answer, albeit rambling and accidental. I take it as: "Nothing should be done, nothing needs to be done, because any 'unfairness' is just a necessary part of free enterprise." Is that accurate? I don't necessarily agree with that or mock it either. It's a thought to consider.

More questions, though:
Does this "laissez faire" apply to directors getting lushly compensated for leading companies into a taxpayer bailout that was worked out by a crony Government? Are you happy trusting the future of capitalism and your nation to Megabiz, Inc.? If you are, just say it.

There is an old saying.. You are at the bottom of a hill and 10 barrels are rolling towards you, what should you do? Answer? Nothing. 9 will roll off in different directions and then you can focus your attention on the actual one that is a problem. We have a few problems out there, no doubt, but you can never solve every single problem and it is a huge waste of time and energy to try.

Unfairness doesn't limit itself to our free enterprise system, it is just a part of the universe.

On your second point, I will say this. Corporations and any business have one pure motive.. Make a profit. Some call them evil for this. Whatever. It is what they do. The government is supposed to set the boundries of the playing field, set and observe broad rules and when neccessary step in to enforce them.

Now. Which one is not doing their job? I don't blame corporations for doing what they are doing, it is what they are there to do.

It is the government that has lost its way.

sappstuf
10/13/2011, 11:50 AM
I bet you were a dodgeball champ.

Do you not agree it was a failure based on its own standards? I would be happy to give you the facts if necessary.

sappstuf
10/13/2011, 12:06 PM
Please, go to downtown OKC, visit with the people there that are apart of OWS. You'll have a hard time finding those crazies, but you will find a ton of out of work older people and a lot of people in their late twenties wondering what the hell happened.

You might be literally right that there are a "ton", but I'm not too impressed with the numbers I can see..

http://newsok.com/occupy-okc/multimedia/photos/gallery/603184

Midtowner
10/13/2011, 12:25 PM
Why don't "occupy" the business end of some tools, shovels, etc, and go build houses for the poor, or a fence around Canada?

How do they feel about the alternatives to the bailouts? Lots more people would have lost jobs in the the auto industries, banks, etc, that might never come back.

The bailouts were probably necessary.

The failure to pass a regulatory scheme to prevent a similar collapse is not excusable.

soonercruiser
10/13/2011, 12:33 PM
The bailouts were probably necessary.

The failure to pass a regulatory scheme to prevent a similar collapse is not excusable.

Chris Dodd and Barney's Frank would NEVER allow real "change" to Fannie & Freddie; let alone meaningful oversight.
They, James Johnson & Franklin Raines saw to it that no credible oversight would ever happen.

CrimsonCream
10/13/2011, 12:41 PM
"Life isn't fair"!!!

Actually, that is a John F. Kennedy quote.

And, of course, he also said "Ask not what Your Country can do for you but................................" Guess we've gotten away from that.

diverdog
10/13/2011, 01:09 PM
Your argument is wrong. The OWS ARE the loonies along with a few common sense people sprinkled in and their message is fine.

By simplistic talking points do you mean

"Hey hey, ho ho, wall street greed has got to go!"

I guess that brilliant message will solve everything.... And off topic, but can left wing protesters please come up with some other chant.. Good grief.

Liberals are always concerned about things being fair. It isn't fair that rich people have money and we don't.. It isn't fair I have to pay my student loans back.. It isn't fair that rich people can risk large amounts of their own wealth and then be taxed at 15% if they are lucky enough to make a profit.

I find this very odd. One of the first lessons we teach children is that life in all its variabilites isn't fair. It never has been and never will be. It isn't fair my kids have to worry about fire ants and scorpions in Texas when kids in Connecticut don't. It isn't fair my kids cannot play outside in the sprinkler because of water restrictions. Oh well. I don't think we should fly scorpions around the country to level the playing field.. Rich kids probably get stung at a lesser rate by scorpions and fire ants than people of lesser wealth.

Who cares. Class envy and jealousy gets the country no where and that is at least an underlying message that is being sent out by the OWSs even if unintentional. And that is ironic, because at the end of the day, our "poor" are the wealthiest poor the world has ever seen.


They have a few legitimate complaints. The first is the burden the will have to bear in the future. None of the pain will be felt by current recipients of government benefits. Secondl,y they are getting overwhelmed by college expenses. Third, the are fighting and dying in our wars and being ask to pay for it. They are right to be blaming Wall Street and shining the light down some of those rat holes. And I think their complaints about unlimited corporate access to the political process is also a legitimate.

If this movement gets its act together it will be far more powerful than the tea party.

KantoSooner
10/13/2011, 01:15 PM
The bailouts were probably necessary.

The failure to pass a regulatory scheme to prevent a similar collapse is not excusable.

Yup! We could maybe debate the first (I'd personally have liked to see more carnage in the financial markets and more money spent shielding individual investors/home owners/share holders etc and less spent on bailinig out lemming bankers who made bad or non-decisions. But, meh, I'll go with it was necessary)
As to the second, I'll agree with you as well. But as a first step, we might try enforcing the laws we already have. Our regulatory agencies and the justice dept were roaming around experimenting with how many fingers they could insert into two nostrils vs how many thumbs they could wedge up their butts.
Their incompetence rivalled that of the wall street 'pros' who kept pouring money into investments they themselves had not the vaguest notion how worked. Or, worse, into investments that were supposed to work because, winkwinknodnod, the fix was in.

Bourbon St Sooner
10/13/2011, 01:24 PM
sex with animals? - They just got a hole new group of converts in Stillwater.

TUSooner
10/13/2011, 01:28 PM
* * *
Unfairness doesn't limit itself to our free enterprise system, it is just a part of the universe.

On your second point, I will say this. Corporations and any business have one pure motive.. Make a profit. Some call them evil for this. Whatever. It is what they do. The government is supposed to set the boundries of the playing field, set and observe broad rules and when neccessary step in to enforce them.

Now. Which one is not doing their job? I don't blame corporations for doing what they are doing, it is what they are there to do.

It is the government that has lost its way.

Well, **** and ****! You said something I can agree with.


I think some OWS people would also agree with that

cleller
10/14/2011, 01:17 PM
The bailouts were probably necessary.

The failure to pass a regulatory scheme to prevent a similar collapse is not excusable.

WE AGREE! One of my few left of center views is that because some of the existing agencies were so lax in doing their jobs, things got bad enough to require more action. The SEC could have/should have stopped Madoff early on. Brooksley Born spotted danger and fraud back during the Clinton administration, and no one listened.

Interesting topics. There's a fine line between regulating things to death, and falling off a cliff.