Hit on Brandon Williams Was Helmet to Helmet and Should Have Been Flagged.

[FaninAma]

In fact the Texas bunghole led with the crown of his helmet and it resulted in a fumble. Freaking toadie officials should be protecting the players in an end of game blowout and the lamenut anouncers Herbie and Brent said nary a word about it.

The officials sure caught the helmet dip against OU on the ensuing Texas possession.

I know it didn't affect the outcome but the play against Williams was a very dirty play.

[Sooner_Tuf]

You need to read the rules. It was not a dirty play. It's unfortunate their helmets hit but he wasn't targeted.

[C&CDean]

You need to read the rules. It was not a dirty play. It's unfortunate their helmets hit but he wasn't targeted.

So I guess the PF against us when we damn near killed the FSU kid was a dirty play? Confused.

[Therealsouthsider]

...he led with the crown, whether it was intentional or not, it was direct helmet to helmet and should have been called...also found it interesting the announcers said nothing

SS

[Sooner_Tuf]

So I guess the PF against us when we damn near killed the FSU kid was a dirty play? Confused.

El Dean we're talking about the Texas Game that happened yesterday.

[C&CDean]

El Dean we're talking about the Texas Game that happened yesterday.

No ****?

The hit yesterday most certainly should have been flagged if the play I'm referring to was. Neither play was there intent to maim or injure, it just so happened they hit head-to-head - and the UT guy most certainly led with the crown of his helmet. Personally, I don't think either play warranted a flag, but if they're going to call it, they damn sure oughta be consistent about it. Hell, they called it on us on the next series against their POS QB. The officiating yesterday was pretty damn sloppy.

[AlboSooner]

It was an illegal hit which caused him to lose the ball. You could see he was a tad disoriented after the hit.

[FaninAma]

You need to read the rules. It was not a dirty play. It's unfortunate their helmets hit but he wasn't targeted.

You need to look at the replay before you comment. The Texas player lowered his helmet so that he led with the crown and launched himself at Williams. It was not an accident or unintentional.

[King Barry's Back]

No ****?

The hit yesterday most certainly should have been flagged if the play I'm referring to was. Neither play was there intent to maim or injure, it just so happened they hit head-to-head - and the UT guy most certainly led with the crown of his helmet. Personally, I don't think either play warranted a flag, but if they're going to call it, they damn sure oughta be consistent about it. Hell, they called it on us on the next series against their POS QB. The officiating yesterday was pretty damn sloppy.

Dean, by my limited understanding of the rules, the FSU hit you are referring to should not have been flagged. Watch the video and you'll see that the flag came out very late, after it was clear the kid was hurt.

Neither OU defender really lead with the helmet, they just both happened to get there together. (Is that kid out of the hospital yet? Ouch.)

[stoops the eternal pimp]

IF Williams would have went down and not moved, they probably would have flagged it

[landrun]

I think you're all dead wrong about this rule. Here's my understanding after reading about this after the FSU game.

A helmet to helmet his is illegal on a defenseless player. Meaing a wide receiver coming down with the ball in mid air, etc...
On the other hand, when a line backer and running back both lower their pads and head for a collision where the back is attempting to run over the line backer, there is no such thing as a helme to helmet hit. The back is fully prepared for the hit. And is often initiating the hit as much as the defense is. It isn't illegal.

Not only that, the penalty isn't even helmet to helmet. It is any part of your body to the head of the defeseless offensive player. Shoulder, hands... etc... it is illegal to hit a defenseless offensive player in the helmet. Period. No matter that you hit them with.

The hit on the FSU player was illegal because we hit him in the helmet while he was defenseless.
The hit on Brandon was your typical up the gut run and they didn't nothing more illegal than Brandon himself did.

[SoonerKnight]

Dean, by my limited understanding of the rules, the FSU hit you are referring to should not have been flagged. Watch the video and you'll see that the flag came out very late, after it was clear the kid was hurt.

Neither OU defender really lead with the helmet, they just both happened to get there together. (Is that kid out of the hospital yet? Ouch.)


The FSU flag was because the kid was shaking and unconcious in the end zone. the hit on Williams should have been called. You look at the number of penalties OU has had this season compared to what they had yesterday and there are one of two reasons for it.

1. bad officiating calling everything they possibly could get away with. Especially when Stoops is telling one official what the rule is and he agreed but could not change the ruling.

2. All of a sudden OU became undisciplined and start making mistakes.

I tend to think the officials were pretty bad yesterday. they seem to call a lot more penalties on OU rather than * for some reason. I am glad they called holding on that last run back for a touchdown. We have not given up a touched down on speacial teams all year and then all of a sudden 2 of them!! Yeah riiiiiight!

[FtwTxSooner]

I think you're all dead wrong about this rule. Here's my understanding after reading about this after the FSU game.

A helmet to helmet his is illegal on a defenseless player. Meaing a wide receiver coming down with the ball in mid air, etc...
On the other hand, when a line backer and running back both lower their pads and head for a collision where the back is attempting to run over the line backer, there is no such thing as a helme to helmet hit. The back is fully prepared for the hit. And is often initiating the hit as much as the defense is. It isn't illegal.

Not only that, the penalty isn't even helmet to helmet. It is any part of your body to the head of the defeseless offensive player. Shoulder, hands... etc... it is illegal to hit a defenseless offensive player in the helmet. Period. No matter that you hit them with.

The hit on the FSU player was illegal because we hit him in the helmet while he was defenseless.
The hit on Brandon was your typical up the gut run and they didn't nothing more illegal than Brandon himself did.

Great summary. Some folks are just too prone to whine without even knowing the rules themselves.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Somehow everyone is dead wrong even though not everyone is agreeing on the call

[C&CDean]

Great summary. Some folks are just too prone to whine without even knowing the rules themselves.

So, are you saying you know the rules in detail, or that you don't know ****?

[SoonerKnight]

So, are you saying you know the rules in detail, or that you don't know ****?

I'd say he don't know ****!! Is accurate!!

[8timechamps]

While we're on the subject, which one of our d-linemen were called for the helmet-to-helmet hit on (I think) Ash (could have been McCoy) late in the game? Was is Ronnell?

Regardless, I don't understand, given the way that rule has become so prevalent when dealing with the QB, he did that. At first I thought it was a bad call, until I saw the replay. Maybe whichever QB it was, was talking trash, or maybe Ronnell (or Walker, can't remember) had some kind of brainfart.

[FaninAma]

I'd say he don't know ****!! Is accurate!!

I will let everybody make up their own mind by reviewing the play. The Texas player did not hit Brandon head on. He launched himeself from Brandon's left side and hit him (Brandon) in the left side of the helmet with the crown of his helmet. Brandon was woozy as he walked off the field.

It was a helmet to helmet hit. The Texas player led with the crown of his helmet. It was an illegal hit.

I'm not defending the rule but if you are going to have the rule then be consistent.

[C&CDean]

I will let everybody make up their own mind by reviewing the play. The Texas player did not hit Brandon head on. He launched himeself from Brandon's left side and hit him (Brandon) in the left side of the helmet with the crown of his helmet. Brandon was woozy as he walked off the field.

It was a helmet to helmet hit. The Texas player led with the crown of his helmet. It was an illegal hit.

I'm not defending the rule but if you are going to have the rule then be consistent.

I think I just said that about 5 hours ago. Be consistent. that's all.

[Sooner_Tuf]

I agree the officiating was poor at times yesterday and just like normal Texas got some calls to help keep them in the game (Stills' push off for example).

If someone can link to the play we are talking about please do so because my memory of it is not the same as posted. I didn't see anyone launch into anyone. Williams still had forward momentum after the hit evidenced by the ball continuing straight down the field.

landrun has the rule right. Unless the Big XII has an additional rule that applies here. If so I couldn't find it. The NCAA rules are available on ncaa.org in pdf format.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

While we're on the subject, which one of our d-linemen were called for the helmet-to-helmet hit on (I think) Ash (could have been McCoy) late in the game? Was is Ronnell?

Regardless, I don't understand, given the way that rule has become so prevalent when dealing with the QB, he did that. At first I thought it was a bad call, until I saw the replay. Maybe whichever QB it was, was talking trash, or maybe Ronnell (or Walker, can't remember) had some kind of brainfart.

Alexander..

[stoops the eternal pimp]

AND YOU ARE ALL WRONG!

[btk108]

AND YOU ARE ALL WRONG!

Freakin' know it all....why I oughta

[stoops the eternal pimp]

WRONG! IN fACT, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!

[BoulderSooner79]

My understanding is similar to landrun - it has to be a defenseless player. They flag Stills for that on that block, but correctly picked up the flag because a different ref saw it was shoulder to shoulder. So it doesn't have to be the ball carrier. I would assume that Williams had no protection on that play since he is a runner and not defenseless. *But*, they flagged a tOSU player for hitting Martinez last night when he was a runner - he was 10 yards down field, so no way was he a protected QB in the pocket. Even the announcers said it was a bad call and wouldn't have been thrown if it were a RB. So now, I don't understand the rules. The Alexander flag was correct. He got caught half way between leaping to bat the pass and lunging to make a tackle and his helmet hit Ash's facemask. Ref has to call that, but it certainly wasn't intentional.

BTW, that FSU kid was fine and played the next week. Stills missed a game with his forearm to the head that the refs missed. Grrrrr.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

WRONG!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

maybe you are right

[stoops the eternal pimp]

WRONG!@

[dennis580]

In fact the Texas bunghole led with the crown of his helmet and it resulted in a fumble. Freaking toadie officials should be protecting the players in an end of game blowout and the lamenut anouncers Herbie and Brent said nary a word about it.

The officials sure caught the helmet dip against OU on the ensuing Texas possession.

I know it didn't affect the outcome but the play against Williams was a very dirty play.

I'll cut the refs a break on that. Its very difficult for the refs to pick that up when a RB runs in the middle of the line like that, and lowers his head. Plays like that are very rarely called. So you shouldn't be expecting a call in that situation.

[dennis580]

No ****?

The hit yesterday most certainly should have been flagged if the play I'm referring to was. Neither play was there intent to maim or injure, it just so happened they hit head-to-head - and the UT guy most certainly led with the crown of his helmet. Personally, I don't think either play warranted a flag, but if they're going to call it, they damn sure oughta be consistent about it. Hell, they called it on us on the next series against their POS QB. The officiating yesterday was pretty damn sloppy.

The are very consistant it about. You will very rarely see a running back who runs into the middle, and lowers his head get a call for helmet to helmet in that situation.

[FaninAma]

I think I just said that about 5 hours ago. Be consistent. that's all.

Great minds think alike. Everybody knows that.

[8timechamps]

Alexander..

WRONG!


or right.

[BASSooner]

WRONG!@

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Yr9XyBdnI

[StoopTroup]

Targeting or initiating Contact with the Crown of the helmet

Rule 9 Section One Article Three

No player shall target or initiate contact against an opponent to the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question it is a foul Rule 9-6.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Defenseless Player: Contact to head or neck Area


Rule 9 Section One Article Four

No Player shall target or initiate contact to the head or neck Area of a Defenseless Opponent with the helmet, forearm, elbow or shoulder. When in question it is a foul (Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are found in the NCAA Manual for 2011-2012 (A 2 year free downloadable Publication)

https://www.ncaapublications.com/s-5-Playing-rules.aspx

[cccasooner2]

Targeting or initiating Contact with the Crown of the helmet

Rule 9 Section One Article Three

No player shall target or initiate contact against an opponent to the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question it is a foul Rule 9-6.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Defenseless Player: Contact to head or neck Area


Rule 9 Section One Article Four

No Player shall target or initiate contact to the head or neck Area of a Defenseless Opponent with the helmet, forearm, elbow or shoulder. When in question it is a foul (Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6)-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are found in the NCAA Manual for 2011-2012 (A 2 year free downloadable Publication)

https://www.ncaapublications.com/s-5-Playing-rules.aspx


The loophole in the rule for consistency: "When in question it is a foul". The shalls are overridden by judgement. Acctually I'm saying this wrong. The foul should be called if it even looks wrong and leave no room for judjement. The foul should be called much more often.

[StoopTroup]

I just posted the ruling as it's pretty obvious there is no real answer unless you talk with the officiating crew. These days...I really don't think they are there to call a perfect game....they are there to make it a fair contest.

We all know that didn't happen at Eugene, OR a few years back.

The crews all do a post game review of the calls and they either learn from it or they continue to call it the way they see it/read it.

Hopefully they keep working on this ruling and clear it up. I don't want to see guys crippled from spinal problems or careers ended early from concussions.

Our guys have been involved in some pretty brutal hits.

[StoopTroup]

Remember....it is ok to totally go Ninja and kick a player in the head though. :D

Roundhouses aren't covered.