Amanda Knox Goes Free

[lexsooner]

Nevertheless, I think she did it. From everything I have read, she is a sexual freak with poor impulse control, having had casual sex with countless men from Seattle to NY to Italy, and doing special hemp every morning chased by booze. Her blogs indicate she also has a sexually sadistic streak to her. I guess screw ups by cops and prosecutors are not uniquely American.

[AlboSooner]

She gave herself up when she accused a bartender of the murder. The bartender had a very strong alibi, plus she was home the night of the murder. Who knows what the truth is, but if I had to choose one side, I'd say she did it.

[lexsooner]

Unfortunately, other than the books and movies about her, this is probably not the last we have heard from her. She is seriously disturbed and I expect in the next few years we will see something about her in the news, another dead, sexually totured body in her apartment, drugs OD, or something along those lines. The Seattle press did some investigating into her after her story broke a few years ago and found she was pretty much what the prosecution has portrayed: a hyper-sexual maneater with sadistic traits.

[OhU1]

When it comes to somewhat attractive white female killers there seems to be a "beyond any possible doubt because I can't image a pretty girl like that killing her baby" standard.

That being said, how many pervs on this board would say yes to an Anthony/Knox three way? :beguiled: (the agreed upon Safe Word would be: "Oh my God! Put down the knife!).

[rekamrettuB]

a hyper-sexual maneater with sadistic traits.

I date these types almost exclusively.

[lexsooner]

When it comes to somewhat attractive white female killers there seems to be a "beyond any possible doubt because I can't image a pretty girl like that killing her baby" standard.

That being said, how many pervs on this board would say yes to an Anthony/Knox three way? :beguiled: (the agreed upon Safe Word would be: "Oh my God! Put down the knife!).

Is there any chance the press can stop referring to every young woman on trial as "beautiful?" Amanda Knox is not beautiful. She is probably a bit above average but definitely not hot. Anthony is more attractive, but not quite "beautiful. From everything I have read, Knox is many times scarier than Anthony. If Anthony refused to do some sexual act or was a perceived sexual competitor, Knox would probably slash her throat.

[lexsooner]

I date these types almost exclusively.

You are more man than the rest of us as long as your manhood is still intact.

[KantoSooner]

You're entitled to your beliefs, however:

1. The cops botched this investigation utterly. Barney Fife could have maintained the chain of custody on the evidence more professionally. Thus, there really was very little 'evidence' other than a dead body.

2. The prosecutor was and is a politically motivated hack/clown. We'll never know, but I'd be willing to bet that, had George W not been president, Knox would never have been charged. This was a case of a prosecutor who was so alive with hate for Americans that he would have filed charges against an American for something sooner or later.

My impression is that virtually no one gave a damn about Kercher or finding her killer(s).

[Midtowner]

Nevertheless, I think she did it. From everything I have read, she is a sexual freak with poor impulse control, having had casual sex with countless men from Seattle to NY to Italy, and doing special hemp every morning chased by booze. Her blogs indicate she also has a sexually sadistic streak to her. I guess screw ups by cops and prosecutors are not uniquely American.

You should read more about this specific prosecutor. His career was in the tank after he struck out going after a serial killer, saying that the serial killer was really a satanic cult who murdered young lovers to harvest their internal organs for use in their satanic rituals--that was really his theory of the case. He came to that conclusion after he locked up his prime suspect and the killings kept happening. When journalists started asking questions and publishing stories questioning his methods and conclusions, he had them criminally prosecuted. He is also facing trial for abuse of his office.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_of_Florence

So when he says these things about Ms. Knox, you're going to have to take them with a lump of salt.

I mean, as to this case, the prosecutor's first theory that the murder motive was a Satanic ritual orgy (kind of his go-to motive when there is none), then it later became just a sex game gone wrong, then jealousy, then down to no motive whatsoever. He just made stuff up as he went along. Everything which could have gone wrong with the prosecution's case went wrong, which is something that is supposed to happen when the person being prosecuted actually is innocent. The prosecution's forensics were grossly mishandled and evidence was in fact fabricated, for example, what the prosecution said was Knox' DNA on the knife upon reexamination turned up to be a speck of flour.

Is it possible Knox is guilty? Oh I suppose it is, but the prosecution sure as hell didn't prove it. That's their job and they failed wholly.

[lexsooner]

You're entitled to your beliefs, however:

1. The cops botched this investigation utterly. Barney Fife could have maintained the chain of custody on the evidence more professionally. Thus, there really was very little 'evidence' other than a dead body.

2. The prosecutor was and is a politically motivated hack/clown. We'll never know, but I'd be willing to bet that, had George W not been president, Knox would never have been charged. This was a case of a prosecutor who was so alive with hate for Americans that he would have filed charges against an American for something sooner or later.

My impression is that virtually no one gave a damn about Kercher or finding her killer(s).

There's no doubt the prosecutor botched the case and I am not questioning the appeals court's decision to free her. I'm sure they had legitimate grounds to do so. However, I still believe she committed the crime. The question of actual innocence vs. enough evidence for the state to prove its case are two different things.

[KantoSooner]

There's no doubt the prosecutor botched the case and I am not questioning the appeals court's decision to free her. I'm sure they had legitimate grounds to do so. However, I still believe she committed the crime. The question of actual innocence vs. enough evidence for the state to prove its case are two different things.

No doubt. I, too, suffered through three long years of law school. This was not an ordinary crime, however. Even judging on the basis of a slim body of evidence, the damage to the body of the deceased is extraordinary. And, as the old saw goes: extraordinary conclusions require extraordinary proof.
That a young woman in today's world enjoys sex, even fairly kinky sex, does not, for me, rise to the level of 'extraordinary'. Nor does the fact that she was a friend of the deceased and had access to the place of the crime. Not even that she might have engaged in a menage a trois with the deceased.
She was handy. So far, that's what the cops have proven. And that, folks, ain't enough. Not for the law, and not really for us yokels. There's nothing out there that connects her to the crime except that she knew the deceased.

[Skysooner]

I only knew peripherally what happened prior to a few days ago but having read both sides, it is clear to me that Guede was the only one that can be definitively tied to the scene. All of the other evidence was problematic which is why she was acquitted under appeal.

It appears to me that she did nothing better or worse than many of us did while in college, and her "confession" came after long hours of interrogation in a language she couldn't completely understand. These "confessions" used to happen all of the time in the US prior to Miranda and are still a problem today.

[lexsooner]

No doubt. I, too, suffered through three long years of law school. This was not an ordinary crime, however. Even judging on the basis of a slim body of evidence, the damage to the body of the deceased is extraordinary. And, as the old saw goes: extraordinary conclusions require extraordinary proof.
That a young woman in today's world enjoys sex, even fairly kinky sex, does not, for me, rise to the level of 'extraordinary'. Nor does the fact that she was a friend of the deceased and had access to the place of the crime. Not even that she might have engaged in a menage a trois with the deceased.
She was handy. So far, that's what the cops have proven. And that, folks, ain't enough. Not for the law, and not really for us yokels. There's nothing out there that connects her to the crime except that she knew the deceased.

In most cases I would agree with you that she was no more than a convenient target for the prosecution - and we all know prosecutors will railroad people when there is a high profile case, but after reading some fairly in-depth articles about her background leading up to the fateful night, I think she was very much capable of the murder. From what I read, Knox was not merely a young woman who enjoyed partying and lots of sex. She was a rare case of a disturbed individual who was out of control with her lack of impulse control and poor boundaries, but yet fully in control with maintaining a part-time job and high grades which landed her the opportunity to go to study in Italy.

From the news stories (not tabloids either): At UW she enjoying writing fiction with sexually sadistic themes such as rape. She spent two years at UW doing drugs (a special high grade pot) and alcohol daily and sleeping with countless guys and developed a reputation for being a man-eater who aligned herself with men and got nasty if any other women tried to enter her circle. Right before she left for Italy she threw a party at her flat at UW which was essentially a drug and alcohol-fueled orgy which turned into vandalism on the outside street. The cops showed up and they found the person to arrest: Knox. She ended up with a fine and then flew to Italy and within hours she boarded a train in Rome and proceeded to have sex with a stranger she met on board. These are just some of facts about her. Sorry, folks, none of this sound like a normal wild, fun-loving coed. It sounds like a disturbed young woman with no impulse control who was already out of control and very much capable of taking it to the next level.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I'm just ready for her and Casey Anthony to team up for a porn.

[KantoSooner]

Okay, so the basis of your argument is that:

1. She had a history of 'sleeping around'.

2. She got 'jealous' if other women were around 'her' men.

3. She liked to drink alcohol and get stoned (on 'special' pot, no less. Perhaps you refer to Salmon River Quiver or some such which is a) quite usual for the past ten years or so and, b) has been breathlessly reported upon by the media...all while there is a dearth of evidence that it does anything more than make you REALLY STONED).

4. She hosted loud, wild party(ies).

All this is then conflated into her being a 'man eater' with 'impulse control' issues (nice use of words to imply a psychological condition for what otherwise could be described as 'she's a wildass party girl') who's 'fully capable' of 'going to the next level'.

You'll excuse me for saying this but, you have failed to state a case that supports your conclusion. Or, rather, you state a case that would support putting about 60% of American youth between the ages of 19 and 25 in protective custody.

What convent did you attend? The behavior described during her college years would have been considered pretty normal for a co-ed in my day. Except that the drug menu would have been much broader and more aggressive. (note: pot smokers don't kill people except when they drive or operate machinery. They are too busy trying to find the secret meaning in Cartoon Network or waiting, INTERMINABLY, for the pizza guy to arrive. Or maybe taking a long, hot shower with everyone else in their co-ed dorm - Ah, the memories!).

And what's 'the next level' all about? Is there some slippery slope down which you descend, without recourse, when you start to sleep with multiple partners or smoke pot? And this trail leads, ineluctably to rape and bloody murder?

Maybe she and her boyfriend really did kill Kercher (in a barocque and particularly savage way with no particular violence in either's past) and then frame an errant African for their crime. It's possible.

But Occam's Razor would insist that we also entertain the notion that, if so, they would have left some trace of themselves behind. And, absent such evidence that we entertain the notion that perhaps they really are innocent.

[marfacowboy]

Nevertheless, I think she did it. From everything I have read, she is a sexual freak with poor impulse control, having had casual sex with countless men from Seattle to NY to Italy, and doing special hemp every morning chased by booze. Her blogs indicate she also has a sexually sadistic streak to her. I guess screw ups by cops and prosecutors are not uniquely American.

I think there's a strong double standard with this sort of stuff. Most guys I knew would have had sex with as many good looking women they could, and in college, probably boozed it up everyday. Most of 'em hit the bong pretty regularly. They probably would have willingly let Amanda tie 'em up, too.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Nevertheless, I think she did it. From everything I have read, she is a sexual freak with poor impulse control, having had casual sex with countless men from Seattle to NY to Italy, and doing special hemp every morning chased by booze. Her blogs indicate she also has a sexually sadistic streak to her. I guess screw ups by cops and prosecutors are not uniquely American.

Where have you read/heard this. I haven't seen anything close to this. You mean the Italian prosecutor could be right with all the satan stuff???

[soonerboomer93]

In most cases I would agree with you that she was no more than a convenient target for the prosecution - and we all know prosecutors will railroad people when there is a high profile case, but after reading some fairly in-depth articles about her background leading up to the fateful night, I think she was very much capable of the murder. From what I read, Knox was not merely a young woman who enjoyed partying and lots of sex. She was a rare case of a disturbed individual who was out of control with her lack of impulse control and poor boundaries, but yet fully in control with maintaining a part-time job and high grades which landed her the opportunity to go to study in Italy.

From the news stories (not tabloids either): At UW she enjoying writing fiction with sexually sadistic themes such as rape. She spent two years at UW doing drugs (a special high grade pot) and alcohol daily and sleeping with countless guys and developed a reputation for being a man-eater who aligned herself with men and got nasty if any other women tried to enter her circle. Right before she left for Italy she threw a party at her flat at UW which was essentially a drug and alcohol-fueled orgy which turned into vandalism on the outside street. The cops showed up and they found the person to arrest: Knox. She ended up with a fine and then flew to Italy and within hours she boarded a train in Rome and proceeded to have sex with a stranger she met on board. These are just some of facts about her. Sorry, folks, none of this sound like a normal wild, fun-loving coed. It sounds like a disturbed young woman with no impulse control who was already out of control and very much capable of taking it to the next level.

So shes' a female Charlie Sheen?

[lexsooner]

Where have you read/heard this. I haven't seen anything close to this. You mean the Italian prosecutor could be right with all the satan stuff???

Here one of a number of articles about her: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-498853/The-wild-raunchy-past-Foxy-Knoxy.html

No, I think the satan worship theory is ridiculous. However, I also don't think she was a normal young fun-loving woman either - pretty disturbed, actually. .

[Skysooner]

Here one of a number of articles about her: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-498853/The-wild-raunchy-past-Foxy-Knoxy.html

No, I think the satan worship theory is ridiculous. However, I also don't think she was a normal young fun-loving woman either - pretty disturbed, actually. .

That's about the most worthless source out there. They took bits and pieces from a jailhouse diary and placed it all out of context along with offering $40,000 to friends from school to give out dirt on her. This is the same paper that published that the appeal failed for around 30 minutes yesterday. Hardly an unbiased source.

[soonerboomer93]

Here one of a number of articles about her: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-498853/The-wild-raunchy-past-Foxy-Knoxy.html

No, I think the satan worship theory is ridiculous. However, I also don't think she was a normal young fun-loving woman either - pretty disturbed, actually. .

dude, did you really really just link to an article that had


The officer suspected "some kids" were just playing their music too loud, but what he found was no run-of-the-mill summer student party: he later told colleagues it was like a scene from Baghdad.
Gangs of students, high on drink and drugs, were hurling rocks into the road. Cars were swerving to avoid them. Debris littered the road. It was mayhem.

I mean, they make it sound like they're rioting in the streets, and they arrested 1 person for that?

p.s. Daily Mail is a tabloid

p.s.s you really read that whole article and decided to believe it blindly? Just the last 3 or 4 paragraphs made me laugh at it.

[Midtowner]

The UK's libel laws are pretty strong. I'm sure the DM has excellent insurance coverage.

So what if a young, attractive female like casual sex, drinking and smoking marijuana? That describes a large portion of current college co-eds who aren't murderers.

[sappstuf]

The Monster of Florence is an excellent book. The first half recounts the actual murders and how gruesome and numerous they were. The second half is the author and an Italian journalist tracking down evidence and trying to find the real suspect. Douglas Preston, the author, was arrested by the same prosecutor and this is his recount of that.


For the past five years, I have been working with an Italian journalist, Mario Spezi, on a book about the case of a serial killer known as the Monster of Florence, who murdered fourteen people in the hills of Florence from 1974 to 1985. The Monster has never been caught and the case is still open. It has become the longest-running and most expensive criminal investigation in modern Italian history. Our book, which will be published in Italian in Italy in April and later in America in English, faults the investigation and specifically criticizes the chief Examining Magistrate of Perugia, Giuliano Mignini, and the chief prosecutor, Michele Giuttari, who are in charge of one branch of the investigation.

I went to Italy on Feb. 14 with my family on vacation and to do some work with Spezi on the book. I was taken into custody by the police on Feb. 22. I was brought before Giuliano Mignini. There I was aggressively interrogated for three hours by him and three police detectives. I was asked about my relationship with Spezi and questioned in great detail about our journalistic activities, our theories, thoughts, and beliefs in the case. When I explained that my activities as an investigative journalist were privileged, Mignini shouted that this wasn’t about freedom of the press, but was about a criminal matter of the “utmost seriousness,” and that if I didn’t answer the questions fully I would be arrested and charged with perjury. I was forced to answer the questions under the threat of arrest — which I did.

Mignini then proceeded to play back telephone conversations I had had with Spezi, which they had wiretapped.He played the same passages again and again, demanding to know what we were “really” talking about, demanding that I explain the “real meaning” behind every casual word we had exchanged. They had also recorded conversations we had had in Spezi’s car, which had been broken into and bugged–Spezi found the bug yesterday. When I asked if I was being accused of a crime, Mignini said he believed I had committed not one but several serious felonies–to whit: planting evidence to frame an innocent man, obstruction of justice, and being an accessory to murder — all utterly false accusations.

Despite answering their questions fully and truthfully, in the end they charged me with “reticenza” and “false testimonianze” — two serious crimes of perjury — but said the charges wold be suspended to allow me to leave Italy, to be reinstated later. In other words, it seems their goal was to get me out of Italy — never to return.

The timing of this is not surprising. Our book will be published on April 19. The police had earlier obtained a draft of the book which they had seized in a search of Spezi’s apartment, and so Mignini and Giuttari know well what we have written about him. This was a naked attempt to use the power of the state to intimidate and silence two journalists, and it may be a prelude to a legal action in Italy to block publication of the book.

After the interrogation, the police raided Spezi’s apartment (for a third time–he’d been raided twice before) and took away many documents. They also broke into Spezi’s car and planted a microphone, which he later found. Following that, the police apparently leaked details of their investigation to the press, and articles in Corriere della Sera, La Nazione, and Il Giornale, about my interrogation and the search and seizure of Spezi’s papers. The police also leaked out the information that Spezi was suspected of involvement in several murders and that he may be connected to the Satanic sect which the police believe was behind the Monster of Florence serial killings.

Notice that last sentence? That prosecutor apparently believes Satanic cults are everywhere in Italy..

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Here one of a number of articles about her: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-498853/The-wild-raunchy-past-Foxy-Knoxy.html

No, I think the satan worship theory is ridiculous. However, I also don't think she was a normal young fun-loving woman either - pretty disturbed, actually. .

Interesting stuff...Per the LameStreamMedia, you'd think she is as pure as the driven snow...

[Penguin]

There's DNA and an eyewitness linking Amanda Knox to the crime, but America assumes she is innocent.

There's no DNA or any eyewitness that links Casey Anthony to the death of her child, but America assumes she is guilty.



Americans are whack, y'all.

[Skysooner]

There's DNA and an eyewitness linking Amanda Knox to the crime, but America assumes she is innocent.

There's no DNA or any eyewitness that links Casey Anthony to the death of her child, but America assumes she is guilty.



Americans are whack, y'all.

The DNA evidence was what exonerated her. They handled it badly and one piece was collected 40+ days after the crime from the crime scene. The eyewitness was the guy whose DNA was found on, in and around the murder victim. He initially identified some mysterious Italian man and not Amanda. He later came back and identified the boyfriend and said that Amanda was outside the room.

There was a serious lack of credible evidence in this case. The police had the DNA to solve the case early, but they failed to do so.

[picasso]

You're entitled to your beliefs, however:

1. The cops botched this investigation utterly. Barney Fife could have maintained the chain of custody on the evidence more professionally. Thus, there really was very little 'evidence' other than a dead body.

2. The prosecutor was and is a politically motivated hack/clown. We'll never know, but I'd be willing to bet that, had George W not been president, Knox would never have been charged. This was a case of a prosecutor who was so alive with hate for Americans that he would have filed charges against an American for something sooner or later.

My impression is that virtually no one gave a damn about Kercher or finding her killer(s).
Italy has a ****ed up justice system.

[SicEmBaylor]

There's DNA and an eyewitness linking Amanda Knox to the crime, but America assumes she is innocent.

There's no DNA or any eyewitness that links Casey Anthony to the death of her child, but America assumes she is guilty.



Americans are whack, y'all.

Neither of these statements are true.

[Okla-homey]

Interesting to note that even in Italy, the moneyed white kids get off while the poor person of color who was involved with them and the victim rots in prison.

[KantoSooner]

Interesting to note that even in Italy, the moneyed white kids get off while the poor person of color who was involved with them and the victim rots in prison.

And kids who are connected in Sierra Leone get off. Hint: if accused of a crime, be wealthy, educated and plugged into the legal system/power structure and have a realtively clean record. It will help, no matter what country you live in.

Alternatively, if you lack the above, try very very hard not to walk on the grass.

[Midtowner]

Interesting to note that even in Italy, the moneyed white kids get off while the poor person of color who was involved with them and the victim rots in prison.

Guede confessed to the murder. When he was offered a deal, he implicated Knox and her boyfriend. Guede is only going to serve 16 years. Knox and her boyfriend were sentenced to 25 and 24 respectively.

[sappstuf]

Italy has a ****ed up justice system.

/thread

[cleller]

The whole sex game murder by committee idea is complicated in its nature. Murders generally are not.

I'd say the likelihood of the Guede guy raping, robbing and killing her is way more plausible than the whole orgy theory. Being a willd hippy party girl is one thing. Killing is rough, down and dirty business. Knox and her emo boyfriend don't come from that world. Guede does.

They showed the actual video of the "recovery" on the bra clasp that allegedly had Sollecito's DNA, on 48 hours tonight. It was 6 weeks after the murder. The investigators picked it up, passed it between two men, put it in an envelope, took it back out, put it back on the filthy floor, photographed it, then picked it up again. It could have had Stegosaurus DNA on it by the time they were finished.

The prosecutor looked clinically insane. The "witness" heroin addict they used looked like Otis Campbell on a bad night.