Koch Bros. trading with Iran...don't worry, it's all legal

[JohnnyMack]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html

[Position Limit]

dude whatever. just a couple of proud john birch members trying to make an honest buck. well it would be honest but for silly rules and regulations. the transparencies and hypocrisy of the uber powerful have become standarized commodities. i saw this story on bloomberg tv yesterday. just shook my head barely suprised and moved on.

[TUSooner]

So who thinks we need to entrust our civil liberties, the environment, and the Nation's welfare in general to these lovers of freedom and liberty? Let's see some hands. Anybody?

[TUSooner]

Oh yeah, quit picking on the rich, JM.

[sappstuf]

It is all legal... That laughable piece even says so..


Internal company records show that Koch Industries used its foreign subsidiary to sidestep a U.S. trade ban barring American companies from selling materials to Iran. Koch-Glitsch offices in Germany and Italy continued selling to Iran until as recently as 2007, the records show.

"Sidestep"?? What does that mean? Doesn't it mean following the law? There is a reason many other American based companies have used a foreign subsidiary to conduct business there, because that is what our law requires. Many American based companies still do it today and it is perfectly legal.

Oh and that girl that said she was fired and was suing for wrongful termination in France?? She lost and was ordered to pay court costs.. Funny how that didn't make it into the story.

These Koch stories are really becoming like "truther" and other conspiracy tales.. Vague innuendos coupled with supposed evil intents... They are "obsessed with secrecy" because they don't release how much profit they make.... They are a private company!! They don't have to. I guess they sidestepped the law on that one too...

The obsession is silly and amusing.

[Position Limit]

sap,

i would suggest trying to finish the article before you throw out the usual "left wing obsession" defense. but hey, iran is always in play with arms or oil supplies and money to be made. i knew they had a crappy regulatory record, but nothing like this article pointed out. yeah i know it's bloomberg and they have an agenda and the facts are probably made up blah blah blah, but i found it interesting.

[Midtowner]

Halliburton did the same with its subsidiary KBR. I don't recall whether the justice department determined it was legal. These are highly complex business entities, so determining legality is not a task most news reporters (even those with law degrees) are really qualified to undertake.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I haven't been to this thread since football season started. What have I missed?

[yermom]

It is all legal... That laughable piece even says so..



"Sidestep"?? What does that mean? Doesn't it mean following the law? There is a reason many other American based companies have used a foreign subsidiary to conduct business there, because that is what our law requires. Many American based companies still do it today and it is perfectly legal.

Oh and that girl that said she was fired and was suing for wrongful termination in France?? She lost and was ordered to pay court costs.. Funny how that didn't make it into the story.

These Koch stories are really becoming like "truther" and other conspiracy tales.. Vague innuendos coupled with supposed evil intents... They are "obsessed with secrecy" because they don't release how much profit they make.... They are a private company!! They don't have to. I guess they sidestepped the law on that one too...

The obsession is silly and amusing.

so doing business with Iran is okay with you?

[sappstuf]

so doing business with Iran is okay with you?

If everything that was immoral was illegal, we would live in a theocracy(or at least something very close).

What they did isn't illegal. General Electric did the same thing along with many other companies, like Caterpillar, Hewlitt-Packard, Honeywell, Tyson Foods and many others in the oil business.

Hit-pieces making it SEEM illegal even though they don't actually say it is illegal(because they can't) makes for good conspiracy fodder...

I do love silly conspiracy theories.

[KantoSooner]

The laws are not so cut and dried. Is the manager of an American company's Malaysian plant, for instance, bound by US law not to trade with Myanmar companies....even if that would be a violation of Malaysian law?
Not commenting directly on the Koch's who are the demons d'jour, but it is worth noting that the situation might not be completely black and white.

[Midtowner]

The federal criminal code as applied to multinational corporations and the business practices of their subsidiaries is not something I or most of the legal profession would be comfortable making such sweeping statements about.

The ethics of the situation are an entirely different matter though.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

The US Government does business with tyrants and proliferators so why shouldn't corporations? It's not like corporations and government aren't one and the same anyways.

My company does business with Iran (non-US based company). I still take a pay check from them. You folks can take your high horse and leave it in an appropriate place.

[OklahomaTuba]

I'd take providing distillation columns to an ethanol plant in Iran anyday over giving semi-automatic weapons to mexican drug cartels, for free, that killed untold numbers of Americans, as was the case with Obama's justice department.

Part of the problem here is that Koch-Glitch (a company I know a lot about as they make distillation equipment for the refining/water & food service industries) and every other equipment supplier that manufactures goods for exports is just knowing for sure where the equipment you are making is going to end up.

Most of the time when your bidding these things, your bidding them to the engineering house or the OEM. And many times it is a secret where this **** is going. So lots of room for possibly going to a bad country.

Big company's are at disadvantage because things like this just get lost. I seriously doubt that any company (Koch, GE, whatever) really sought to do business with this terrorist state. It appears some employee over in Europe wasn't thinking that doing business in Iran was a big deal. Shame on Koch for their compliance folks not catching this ****. Looks like they will have to whip the ol checkbook out again.

As usual, all its takes is one bad apple, and that sounds like what happened here. Overall, Koch appears to be doing a decent job of this stuff given how big a company they are (90,000+ employees around the globe).

[OklahomaTuba]

The federal criminal code as applied to multinational corporations and the business practices of their subsidiaries is not something I or most of the legal profession would be comfortable making such sweeping statements about.

The ethics of the situation are an entirely different matter though.

That's the problem here, someone from Europe's ethics are much different than someone from America's, simply because they see no problem doing business with Iran. It's a big problem every multinational that I've seen deals with. Its much worse in the upstream oil and gas industry.

Again, it wasn't like Koch was handing guns away to mexican drug cartels like Obama's fond of doing.

[JohnnyMack]

That's the problem here, someone from Europe's ethics are much different than someone from America's, simply because they see no problem doing business with Iran. It's a big problem every multinational that I've seen deals with. Its much worse in the upstream oil and gas industry.

Again, it wasn't like Koch was handing guns away to mexican drug cartels like Obama's fond of doing.

Do you really want to get into a discussion about Presidents arming people in other countries? Really?

[yermom]

The federal criminal code as applied to multinational corporations and the business practices of their subsidiaries is not something I or most of the legal profession would be comfortable making such sweeping statements about.

The ethics of the situation are an entirely different matter though.

this is my point. just because it's not illegal doesn't mean they aren't *******s.

[KantoSooner]

I did have the joy of working for a Japanese company and corresponding with an Iraqi guy, after Gulf War I who had no idea I was an American. His whining and moaning following US airstrikes on his factory were pleasant to listen to.

Especially since he'd had to pre-pay for his shipment and my bosses had zero intent of giving him his money back.

[diverdog]

My solution would be simple. If you are a leader of a company and you deal with the enemy then you lose your company, all your wealth and then you are lined up against the wall and shot.

This is not the first time the **** bros have made money being in bed with the enemy.

[diverdog]

That's the problem here, someone from Europe's ethics are much different than someone from America's, simply because they see no problem doing business with Iran. It's a big problem every multinational that I've seen deals with. Its much worse in the upstream oil and gas industry.

Again, it wasn't like Koch was handing guns away to mexican drug cartels like Obama's fond of doing.

No they were helping Iran make more money so they could build more IED's to kill our sons and daughters.

[cleller]

The bright side of this: by clicking the link, I found that Julia Koch looks terrific in an evening gown.

[Caboose]

Do you really want to get into a discussion about Presidents arming people in other countries? Really?

Does this somehow dispute that Obama armed Mexican drug cartels who then used the guns to murder US citizens?

[JohnnyMack]

Does this somehow dispute that Obama armed Mexican drug cartels who then used the guns to murder US citizens?

I will not dispute that F&F put guns into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. As I will assume you won't dispute that our government has a long history of putting guns/weapons/money into the hands of people who have in turn used them against us.

[soonercruiser]

JohnnyMack,
Just curious if you were posting neg about Obama's GE Corporation doing business with Iran?
Just wondering?
(Didn't think so)

[yermom]

How often does JM even defend Obama?