Anarchy and a Full Government Takeover of American Society is the Goal!

[soonercruiser]

Witness all the envy the rich talk, Obama stirring up his minions for a fight in all his speeches, the ararchists and unions protesting in front of Wall Street; and now this!

Never has there ever been a President that actively stirred up division amongst Americans!

Governor Bev Perdue of North Carolina Wants to Cancel Elections
by () on September 27, 2011


Would it be a violation of Godwin’s Law to point out that even the Nazis kept having elections even when we were bombing them? Heck, the United States continued having elections in the Civil War, World War I, and World War II. We didn’t put democracy on hold just because we felt like it. There is this thing called the constitution.

But the constitution seems beside the point to one of America’s least popular governors, Bev Perdue of North Carolina. Maybe brains and constitutional fidelity go together.

Perdue has declared that we should just suspend elections in 2012 for Congress until congressmen solve our economic problems. Given her lack of popularity and the fact that her unpopularity coupled with Obama’s unpopularity will probably swing North Carolina to the GOP in 2012, I’m sure she was privately thinking we might as well suspend all elections next year.

After all, elections may matter, but they cost money.

Already people are suggesting she just had to be joking. Except it doesn’t sound like she was joking and to come out now and say she was joking after giving a rather level toned speech in which she did not chuckle about it and, instead, asked people to join with her and support the idea sounds more like post-idiocy spin than truth.


Was she just joking???
You listen to the audio and make your mind up about it.

PJKMzfkbsgU

Soon the LW wing be asking their storm troopers to take to the streets with pitch forks!
Marshall Law; and a delay of the next Presidential Campaign are not unthinkable to the LW.
:chargrined:

[OhU1]

Was this recorded with my grandpa's 1969 Radio Shack tape recorder?

[Midtowner]

Never has there ever been a President that actively stirred up division amongst Americans!


Really?

James Buchanan/Abraham Lincoln?

[marfacowboy]

Frankly, I think the Republicans might like a little anarchism. If they only knew what it was....

[diverdog]

Really?

James Buchanan/Abraham Lincoln?

Nixon?

The problem the Democrats have is that they won the majority to soon. It would have been better to have let the Republicans wallow in the sh*t storm they created for a few years.

[TUSooner]

Cruiser, take my advice: Put yourself on your own ignore list. Your life will be better for it.

[diverdog]

Cruiser, take my advice: Put yourself on your own ignore list. Your life will be better for it.

cruiser and many others that I know like him amaze me. They have spent their entire lives working for the government, reap all the benefits and then turn around and bite the hand that feeds them by badmouthing the entity they choose to work for all their lives. I do not get it.

That does not mean they are bad people but a little misguided in my opinion. Fortunately, this is free nation and Cruiser and others are free to express their opinions.

[JohnnyMack]

These new Dunkin Donuts K Cups are the best coffee I've found for the Keurig, but that isn't saying much. K Cup coffee just isn't the same.

[49r]

These new Dunkin Donuts K Cups are the best coffee I've found for the Keurig, but that isn't saying much. K Cup coffee just isn't the same.

I've wondered about those. Are they like, instant coffee or something?

[diverdog]

These new Dunkin Donuts K Cups are the best coffee I've found for the Keurig, but that isn't saying much. K Cup coffee just isn't the same.

You can make your own k cups .

[badger]

I would be willing to forgo any elections where the incumbent decides not to run for a second term and there is only one challenger that runs. Every other scheduled election must happen, even if it costs money.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Cruiser, take my advice: Put yourself on your own ignore list. Your life will be better for it.haha. Hey TU, go ahead and put the entire forum on iggy. You will get your wish(at least as far as YOU'RE concerned) that way.

[sappstuf]

Oddly enough, she isn't the only Dem to call for less democracy in the past couple of days..

Peter Orszag, Obama's former director of the OMB said the same thing..


To solve the serious problems facing our country, we need to minimize the harm from legislative inertia by relying more on automatic policies and depoliticized commissions for certain policy decisions. In other words, radical as it sounds, we need to counter the gridlock of our political institutions by making them a bit less democratic.

That is exactly what this country needs.. Less accountability.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I would be willing to forgo any elections where the incumbent decides not to run for a second term and there is only one challenger that runs. Every other scheduled election must happen, even if it costs money.If Obearack decides not to run, you think the D's wouldn't field a candidate?

[badger]

That is exactly what this country needs.. Less accountability.

It was Republicans, not Democrats, that brought term limits to this state, not necessarily a good thing in all cases, but one way to ensure that lifelong politicians can't camp in state office here. If I'm not mistaken, they also led the way on presidential term limits after FDR stayed on for too long :D

[sappstuf]

It was Republicans, not Democrats, that brought term limits to this state, not necessarily a good thing in all cases, but one way to ensure that lifelong politicians can't camp in state office here. If I'm not mistaken, they also led the way on presidential term limits after FDR stayed on for too long :D

Please recalibrate your detector and read my post again..

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs5/2411393_o.gif


:smile:

[Ike]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell the title of the post means. The two "goals" seem mutually exclusive.

[badger]

Please recalibrate your detector and read my post again..

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs5/2411393_o.gif


:smile:

So I accidentally quoted your post or quoted the wrong part of your post, whatev man. chill

[sappstuf]

So I accidentally quoted your post or quoted the wrong part of your post, whatev man. chill

I thought the smiley face at the bottom pretty much means chill....

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell the title of the post means. The two "goals" seem mutually exclusive.You're a smart guy. It can't be that hard for you...can it?

[soonercoop1]

That is pretty much the only result that could occur based on his and congresses actions the last few years...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

That is pretty much the only result that could occur based on his and congresses actions the last few years...Some on this board still think he has the good of the country at heart.

[marfacowboy]

Some on this board still think he has the good of the country at heart.

I don't think any of these politicians have the good of the country at heart. It's a business. A big business, and they're basically puppets for the Wall Street and oil tycoons that pay the billion dollar election tab. They pander to special interests, throw their followers an occasional bone, but spend most of their time running a scheme. I basically hate all of 'em.
Never was a better time for a revolution in this country, except most Americans are too fat, ignorant and lazy to do anything about it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

...I basically hate all of 'em.
Never was a better TIME FOR A REVOLUTION in this country, except most Americans are too fat, ignorant and lazy to do anything about it.stop it, marfac! Enough. Mexico is calling you. They LOVE revolutions in Latin America.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Let's burn this mother ****er down! Anarchy FTW!

[cccasooner2]

cruiser and many others that I know like him amaze me. They have spent their entire lives working for the government, reap all the benefits and then turn around and bite the hand that feeds them by badmouthing the entity they choose to work for all their lives. I do not get it.

That does not mean they are bad people but a little misguided in my opinion. Fortunately, this is free nation and Cruiser and others are free to express their opinions.

Maybe integrity?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Originally Posted by diverdog
"cruiser and many others that I know like him amaze me. They have spent their entire lives working for the government, reap all the benefits and then turn around and bite the hand that feeds them by badmouthing the entity they choose to work for all their lives. I do not get it.

That does not mean they are bad people but a little misguided in my opinion. Fortunately, this is free nation and Cruiser and others are free to express their opinions."


He knows what fuels the entire economy. It is those who create products and services that people purchase. It is the Private Sector. He knows what an out-of-control money-sucking blob the government is, doing countless things outside its prescribed functions.

[diverdog]

Maybe integrity?

That is a fricken hoot. You know he is a double dipper....

[diverdog]

Originally Posted by diverdog
"cruiser and many others that I know like him amaze me. They have spent their entire lives working for the government, reap all the benefits and then turn around and bite the hand that feeds them by badmouthing the entity they choose to work for all their lives. I do not get it.

That does not mean they are bad people but a little misguided in my opinion. Fortunately, this is free nation and Cruiser and others are free to express their opinions."


He knows what fuels the entire economy. It is those who create products and services that people purchase. It is the Private Sector. He knows what an out-of-control money-sucking blob the government is, doing countless things outside its prescribed functions.

So why did he take a second government job? I know dozens of guys like cruiser. They know how to scheme the system and get the maximum benefits. You look through the government in Oklahoma and look how many people worked for the federal government...retired and then worked for the state government and retired again. That is why we are going broke as nation because we have tons of double dippers drawing two taxpayer funded retirement checks, social security and government funded medical benefits. If a union teacher had done the same thing you guys would be screaming bloody murder.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

So why did he take a second government job? I know dozens of guys like cruiser. They know how to scheme the system and get the maximum benefits. You look through the government in Oklahoma and look how many people worked for the federal government...retired and then worked for the state government and retired again. That is why we are going broke as nation because we have tons of double dippers drawing two taxpayer funded retirement checks, social security and government funded medical benefits. If a union teacher had done the same thing you guys would be screaming bloody murder.I don't know about cruiser's employment. I agree with you that the govt. is effed up, to have such a system in place that allows all the overly generous pensions that have been established for govt. service, whether in the public schools, post office, or any other of the myriad of places where the govt. lurks and spends.

The subject of govt. employment unions iis another matter, and it sucks reallyl badly; also a huge problem dragging the country down.

[diverdog]

I don't know about cruiser's employment. I agree with you that the govt. is effed up, to have such a system in place that allows all the overly generous pensions that have been established for govt. service, whether in the public schools, post office, or any other of the myriad of places where the govt. lurks and spends.

The subject of govt. employment unions iis another matter, and it sucks reallyl badly; also a huge problem dragging the country down.

Cruiser was a lifer in the military which is fine. So was my dad. But instead of working in the private sector after he/cruiser got out he went to work for the state. My dad went to work in the private sector.

In my rotary club we have 20 guys like cruiser. All hard right and anxious to gut everyone else's pensions but their own. One of members who is so far right he makes Limbaugh look like a raving hippie is a triple dipper....Air Force retired, State retired and County retired. The man has absolutely no credibility with me and he is a tea bagger. I will tell you if his benefits got cut he would be the first to riot. He thinks he deserves what he got but no one else deserves the same benefits. And to top it all off he bitches about paying taxes.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Cruiser was a lifer in the military which is fine. So was my dad. But instead of working in the private sector after he/cruiser got out he went to work for the state. My dad went to work in the private sector.

In my rotary club we have 20 guys like cruiser. All hard right and anxious to gut everyone else's pensions but their own. One of members who is so far right he makes Limbaugh look like a raving hippie is a triple dipper....Air Force retired, State retired and County retired. The man has absolutely no credibility with me and he is a tea bagger. I will tell you if his benefits got cut he would be the first to riot. He thinks he deserves what he got but no one else deserves the same benefits. And to top it all off he bitches about paying taxes.You understand some things about screwed-up govt. and how to game the system. So, how did you become such a Leftist?

I certainly disapprove of people double dipping, etc. but it's there...and shouldn't be. I DO applaud that cruiser and others you mentioned at least understand the screwed up govt. we now have, and the need for massive overhaul.

[SicEmBaylor]

Really?

James Buchanan/Abraham Lincoln?
Word.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm sitting here trying hard to figure out exactly how anarchy and a "full government takeover" can simultaneously be a goal of anyone. It's kind of one or the other. I sure as hell know which one I'd favor.

[SicEmBaylor]

stop it, marfac! Enough. Mexico is calling you. They LOVE revolutions in Latin America.
We used to love revolutions in this country as well. They're sometimes (often) necessary.

[diverdog]

You understand some things about screwed-up govt. and how to game the system. So, how did you become such a Leftist?

I certainly disapprove of people double dipping, etc. but it's there...and shouldn't be. I DO applaud that cruiser and others you mentioned at least understand the screwed up govt. we now have, and the need for massive overhaul.

I am not a far left as you think.

[JohnnyMack]

I am not a far left as you think.

If you don't fellate a Ronald Reagan blow-up doll each night before bed, you're too far left for him.

[SicEmBaylor]

I don't even need to say it anymore.

[soonercruiser]

You liberal mantra and repeat post dissing others are gettin old Diver!
Really - OLD!

[SicEmBaylor]

You liberal mantra and repeat post dissing others are gettin old Diver!
Really - OLD!
I take it back. I do need to say it.

I weep for the Republic.

[Curly Bill]

I take it back. I do need to say it.

I weep for the Republic.

If you're just now starting you haven't been paying attention the past 19 years. :tongue:

[SicEmBaylor]

If you're just now starting you haven't been paying attention the past 150 years. :tongue:

fify

[Curly Bill]

I don't disagree with that. I was just trying to keep it fairly modern so the kids would have a better chance of understanding.

[soonercruiser]

Some on this board still think he has the good of the country at heart.

That would be Midtowner, TU, and Diver.

Step#1 - American economic collapse; riots in the street and anarchy.

Step #2 - government takes over; becoming non-democratic; eventually Allama Iqbal and Khalifat.

George Soros says so.

[soonercruiser]

Never was a better time for a revolution in this country, except most Americans are too fat, ignorant and lazy to do anything about it.

I cannot dosagree with your last statement.
They are too busy watching reality TV; Twittering about their last sexual encounter (posting about their genitals on this forum); or only get their news from ABS, NBS, MSNBS, and CNBS. (Which says everything is just fine!)

[soonercruiser]

Cruiser was a lifer in the military which is fine. So was my dad. But instead of working in the private sector after he/cruiser got out he went to work for the state. My dad went to work in the private sector.

In my rotary club we have 20 guys like cruiser. All hard right and anxious to gut everyone else's pensions but their own. One of members who is so far right he makes Limbaugh look like a raving hippie is a triple dipper....Air Force retired, State retired and County retired. The man has absolutely no credibility with me and he is a tea bagger. I will tell you if his benefits got cut he would be the first to riot. He thinks he deserves what he got but no one else deserves the same benefits. And to top it all off he bitches about paying taxes.

This is an irration and insane attack - probably cut & paste from the Huffington Guide on Attacking Conservatives.
I am really sorry that the military shafted you so badly Diver, that you have to be so bitter and angy at the rest of us.
It really must be a tough life.
I did a long post a while back about why I made the decisions I did.
You didn't read it - or you dimiss the reasoning, and hate the result of other's good decisions in life. (and a good bit of luck & blessings too in my case)
You are jealous of others!
You fit perfectly the mantra of class envy!
You are a great member of the 97% club that voted for Obama.
Keep up the classic Alinskyian personal attacks on those who disagree with you.
You must be happy on the New Plantation.

[soonercruiser]

If you don't fellate a Ronald Reagan blow-up doll each night before bed, you're too far left for him.
So, JM, who was it that was attacking others for completely wasted, useless rhetoric rather than a civil discussion.
Oh! It was YOU!
:monkey:

[SicEmBaylor]

So, JM, who was it that was attacking others for completely wasted, useless rhetoric rather tha a civil discussion.
Oh! It was YOU!
:monkey:

How is it that my politics are the polar opposite of JM's and yet I agree with him far more than I do most "conservatives" around here? There has to be a reason for that. I wonder what it could be...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

We used to love revolutions in this country as well. They're sometimes (often) necessary.Well, we all (should)know they don't have to happen, but we are facing an economic situation which requires that the govt. shrink, and if it(they) won't then collapse will happen. If the Left organizes and riots before the election, that will start it.

if you want some more discussion on that disgusting subject, here's a start: http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?156660-What-would-put-off-a-REVOLT-til-after-the-12-election&highlight=revolt

[marfacowboy]

I think most people in the country want the same things. A decent education, fair wages, healthcare, a decent place to live and a chance for their families. Recreation, some vacation time, etc. And up until recently, I think most people felt this was attainable. But today, we have young people that wonder if they'll ever get there. They did all the right things, yet now find themselves with crushing student loan debt and an economy teetering on the edge of the abyss. Some of them are already facing ruined credit and high interest rates, trouble even renting an apartment or buying an inexpensive car. Just keeping the lights on is a challenge. Many have no health insurance, because they're too old to be on their parents policies and can't find work. It's a huge percentage of the 18-26 age group.
This is not the fault of the government. There are a lot of things government doesn't do well, but there are things it does very well. Does it need to shrink? You bet it does. But the budget discussions are being held hostage by petty politics, and a few completely insane individuals doing little more than playing games. The things they want to do are dangerous. If there's anything that's wrong with government, it's the multi-billion dollar entitlement checks and tax credits it gives to large corporations, particularly the defense industry. Want to cut? Start there. We could cut $300 billion from the defense budget and still spend more than China, Russia, the UK and France COMBINED. It is completely unnecessary. In fact, it's insane. The only reason we have a fiscal issue with Social Security (and way down the road) is because politicians took the money and used it for other things. They've basically stolen our savings. And the only reason USPS has a problem is an act passed by Congress forcing them to to pre-fund 75 years of future retiree health benefits over a ten-year span.
The biggest problem in America is growing corporate power, not the government. Our government has essentially been taken over by corporate interests. Insurance, oil and gas, defense and Wall Street. We the people have become we the sheeple.

[SicEmBaylor]

I think most people in the country want the same things. A decent education, fair wages, healthcare, a decent place to live and a chance for their families. Recreation, some vacation time, etc. And up until recently, I think most people felt this was attainable. But today, we have young people that wonder if they'll ever get there. They did all the right things, yet now find themselves with crushing student loan debt and an economy teetering on the edge of the abyss. Some of them are already facing ruined credit and high interest rates, trouble even renting an apartment or buying an inexpensive car. Just keeping the lights on is a challenge. Many have no health insurance, because they're too old to be on their parents policies and can't find work. It's a huge percentage of the 18-26 age group.
This is not the fault of the government. There are a lot of things government doesn't do well, but there are things it does very well. Does it need to shrink? You bet it does. But the budget discussions are being held hostage by petty politics, and a few completely insane individuals doing little more than playing games. The things they want to do are dangerous. If there's anything that's wrong with government, it's the multi-billion dollar entitlement checks and tax credits it gives to large corporations, particularly the defense industry. Want to cut? Start there. We could cut $300 billion from the defense budget and still spend more than China, Russia, the UK and France COMBINED. It is completely unnecessary. In fact, it's insane. The only reason we have a fiscal issue with Social Security (and way down the road) is because politicians took the money and used it for other things. They've basically stolen our savings. And the only reason USPS has a problem is an act passed by Congress forcing them to to pre-fund 75 years of future retiree health benefits over a ten-year span.
The biggest problem in America is growing corporate power, not the government. Our government has essentially been taken over by corporate interests. Insurance, oil and gas, defense and Wall Street. We the people have become we the sheeple.
Most of what you're saying is absolutely right. I will not deny those problems exist, and you're absolutely right that the Defense budget needs to be slashed. We certainly should be able to do that in such a way that it does not drastically reduce our defense capability. The DOD is like any other government agency -- too many bureaucrats with their own little fiefdoms and budgets to protect. There are too many of them that likely represent billions of dollars that have little to do with actually protecting this country and everything to do with keeping a larger slice of the pie for themselves.

You're also right about social security. The retirement savings of millions of Americans has been continuously raided over the years when the economy was booming and politicians put little thought into its future impact.

Here's where you're wrong: You're looking to the Federal government to provide these services and to find solutions to your aforementioned problems. You mentioned that the Federal government is good at some things -- like what? The Federal government was neither intended nor designed to provide the kinds of services you mentioned. The Federal government is not authorized to provide retirement benefits. The Federal government is not authorized to make sure college graduates can easily pay off their student loans. The Federal government's job is not to make sure that the lights are turned on.

HOWEVER, if you do believe that government should provide those sorts of services then look to the appropriate government to provide them. Look to the government that is closest to the people it represents and is in the best position to tailor public policy that fits the citizens it represents. Look to the STATE governments to fix those problems.

[diverdog]

This is an irration and insane attack - probably cut & paste from the Huffington Guide on Attacking Conservatives.
I am really sorry that the military shafted you so badly Diver, that you have to be so bitter and angy at the rest of us.
It really must be a tough life.
I did a long post a while back about why I made the decisions I did.
You didn't read it - or you dimiss the reasoning, and hate the result of other's good decisions in life. (and a good bit of luck & blessings too in my case)
You are jealous of others!
You fit perfectly the mantra of class envy!
You are a great member of the 97% club that voted for Obama.
Keep up the classic Alinskyian personal attacks on those who disagree with you.
You must be happy on the New Plantation.

Ya know your rant would have some credibility if you worked in the private sector but you don't. End of story.

As far as class envy goes that is a hoot. I have a very good job and so does my wife. Maybe not dentist kind of money but we are not that far off. We pay quarterly estimated taxes and those taxes go to support you. You cannot say the same thing cruiser. Therefore you are the one living on the plantation and everyone else is paying for it.

You cannot go walking around being some big bad *** conservative and still suck on the government tit. It doesn't work that way.

[diverdog]

Most of what you're saying is absolutely right. I will not deny those problems exist, and you're absolutely right that the Defense budget needs to be slashed. We certainly should be able to do that in such a way that it does not drastically reduce our defense capability. The DOD is like any other government agency -- too many bureaucrats with their own little fiefdoms and budgets to protect. There are too many of them that likely represent billions of dollars that have little to do with actually protecting this country and everything to do with keeping a larger slice of the pie for themselves.

You're also right about social security. The retirement savings of millions of Americans has been continuously raided over the years when the economy was booming and politicians put little thought into its future impact.

Here's where you're wrong: You're looking to the Federal government to provide these services and to find solutions to your aforementioned problems. You mentioned that the Federal government is good at some things -- like what? The Federal government was neither intended nor designed to provide the kinds of services you mentioned. The Federal government is not authorized to provide retirement benefits. The Federal government is not authorized to make sure college graduates can easily pay off their student loans. The Federal government's job is not to make sure that the lights are turned on.

HOWEVER, if you do believe that government should provide those sorts of services then look to the appropriate government to provide them. Look to the government that is closest to the people it represents and is in the best position to tailor public policy that fits the citizens it represents. Look to the STATE governments to fix those problems.

Sicem:

The one problem with state government is that they make cronyism in Washington look almost nonexistent. In most cases state governments are far more corrupt than the federal government. I give you NJ and Alabama as two prime examples. They are either dominated by union politics or good ole boy politics. Either way they are going to favor a very small group of people.

When I was in Oklahoma I think every county commissioner went to jail for corruption. If you wanted a road grated or paved you had to pay a bribe. I also grew up during segregation and if that was left up to the states we would still have it in many states. I am far less trusting of state governments than I am the federal government.

[sappstuf]

Sicem:

The one problem with state government is that they make cronyism in Washington look almost nonexistent. In most cases state governments are far more corrupt than the federal government. I give you NJ and Alabama as two prime examples. They are either dominated by union politics or good ole boy politics. Either way they are going to favor a very small group of people.

When I was in Oklahoma I think every county commissioner went to jail for corruption. If you wanted a road grated or paved you had to pay a bribe. I also grew up during segregation and if that was left up to the states we would still have it in many states. I am far less trusting of state governments than I am the federal government.

Isn't that evidence against your point?? How many federal politicians go to jail for corruption?

[diverdog]

Isn't that evidence against your point?? How many federal politicians go to jail for corruption?

A lot. Thank god for the FBI.

[marfacowboy]

Here's where you're wrong: You're looking to the Federal government to provide these services and to find solutions to your aforementioned problems. You mentioned that the Federal government is good at some things -- like what? The Federal government was neither intended nor designed to provide the kinds of services you mentioned. The Federal government is not authorized to provide retirement benefits. The Federal government is not authorized to make sure college graduates can easily pay off their student loans. The Federal government's job is not to make sure that the lights are turned on.


I think the USPS runs pretty well. It's amazing to me that I can mail a letter from Baltimore to Los Angeles for less than fifty cents and it usually shows up in less than three days. Our military works well. It's the best on the planet. Corporation For Public Broadcasting, the National Park Service.

Social Security was enacted largely in response to the number of elderly people living in poverty. At the time it was created, that number exceeded 50%. The fact of the matter is in a large complex society such as ours, you have to have safety nets for people. Not everyone is going to be able to build their own nest egg, and it would be unconscionable to think that the needy should simply be left to die under a viaduct somewhere. The program has to be national, because it's a national issue.

One of the foremost Christian intellectuals of our age, Francis Schaeffer, stated that ultimately human societies are judged by how they treated their own people. Our record is a mixed bag. In one period, we had slavery, lack of voting rights for women, discrimination against Spanish speaking people and the genocide of Native peoples. Then we progressed a bit with social programs and laws. By the late 60's, Jim Crow was buried and racism only lingered in the hearts of poorly educated louts. But now it appears we're in danger of going backward, dismantling many of the things we did well. When I listen to the lank language of the far right, I find truly frightening. It's all about privatization. Making the world more comfortable for corporations, even corporations that are highly destructive and damaging not only to small business and local communities, but to the land.

Keep in mind corporations only exist to do one thing. Return share holder value. That's all they're tasked to do according to their charters. The people within corporations will do whatever is necessary to advance their own star. Anyone at the top that doesn't increase shareholder value will not long last. And there are huge profits to be made. I know because I worked for two huge corporations in the 1980's and early 1990's. I know full well what goes on. For all the good many corporations do, they cannot be allowed to operate freely, governed only by the market. We have plenty of evidence that illustrates the extreme dangers in that scenario. Destroy or gut EPA at your own peril.

Oh, and if you're a policeman, fireman or other union worker, beware. Those in power are out to break you, too. Don't think there isn't already talk of privatizing municipal police forces. The GOP is not your friend.

[East Coast Bias]

There are some other things the government does well: How about the FDA? Would you want the drug companies free to cut out all the testing and safety requirements?Granted some of these agencies have bloated and need to be cut back. The EPA has taken a lot of criticism, but does anyone remember what the air was like before they came along? How about our rivers and all the superfund sites? Do we really want to let factories start dumping into the rivers again? The list goes on and on. Highway and airline safety.Food safety and inspections? Do you trust corporations to police themselves in some of these areas or will they pursue profits at any cost? I agree with Marf that corporate greed and money drives too much of the policy at this point and in some cases government in the thing between us and disaster. Barney Frank says government are the things we choose to do together. There are still many things we have to do together.........

[TUSooner]

1 - The title of this thread is nonsensical and perfectly stupid, in other words, exactly what one expects from cruiser or Rush's Parrot. That's mainly why they dwell together on my ignore list.

2- If you do not read marfa's posts 50 & 56 (especially the part about the purpose of corporations) you should not be allowed to post in this forum. Ever. That's especially true for you ding-dong ideologues who think we should trust the public good to the tender mercies of multinational corporations and "money changers".

3- SicEm, your devotion to ideological purity is naive, ivory-tower theorizing of a dangerous sort - as bad as that of any ivory-tower "liberal". Take it out of its glass case and see how it works in the real world where real people reside before you tout your dogma as the cure for what ails society. In many ways you are a very thoughtful and intelligent poster, but in other significant ways you are utterly clueless about the realities of human society today and throughout history.

4- Federal Courts are a big +1 for the US. If you want efficiency, sensibility, fairness, justice, and intelligent analysis and decisions, you are generally more likely to find them in federal court than in most state courts.

[soonercoop1]

Sicem:

The one problem with state government is that they make cronyism in Washington look almost nonexistent. In most cases state governments are far more corrupt than the federal government. I give you NJ and Alabama as two prime examples. They are either dominated by union politics or good ole boy politics. Either way they are going to favor a very small group of people.

When I was in Oklahoma I think every county commissioner went to jail for corruption. If you wanted a road grated or paved you had to pay a bribe. I also grew up during segregation and if that was left up to the states we would still have it in many states. I am far less trusting of state governments than I am the federal government.

They went to jail for much less than the current politicians have done in DC....state government is substantially more beholden to the people and the people have the ability to make sure their beliefs are upheld....federal government is not beholden to the "people" because they have have been allowed to legislate their control and have not been held accountable for their actions...this has been accomplished with the full cooperation of the national media...

[Midtowner]

They went to jail for much less than the current politicians have done in DC....state government is substantially more beholden to the people and the people have the ability to make sure their beliefs are upheld....federal government is not beholden to the "people" because they have have been allowed to legislate their control and have not been held accountable for their actions...this has been accomplished with the full cooperation of the national media...

You should be more specific. It's probably not realistic to expect any government to act without being somewhat corrupt. There's just too damn much money for corruption ot to happen. The question is whether that corruption cripples the system. If you really think it's so bad here, talk to someone from Rwanda about corruption in their government and its results.

[SicEmBaylor]

3- SicEm, your devotion to ideological purity is naive, ivory-tower theorizing of a dangerous sort - as bad as that of any ivory-tower "liberal". Take it out of its glass case and see how it works in the real world where real people reside before you tout your dogma as the cure for what ails society. In many ways you are a very thoughtful and intelligent poster, but in other significant ways you are utterly clueless about the realities of human society today and throughout history.
I do not deny that providing services to the citizenry is a proper function of government. Everything from retirement to healthcare to clean streets are a function of government. But, I will always believe that social services are best provided at the state level where the government is closest to the people and, theoretically, more responsive to the people. I don't believe that a one-size-fits-all national policy is the best way to go in a country as diverse as ours. There are VAST socio-economic and cultural differences from state to state and those difference should have an impact on the government's social policy. That simply cannot be done at the Federal level. States are in a better position to identify and solve problems unique to their own state.

What makes that impossible are the myriad of Federal laws that supersede state law on domestic policy issues. The tax code is built in such a way as to raise revenue for the purpose of funding a never ending number of Federal programs that are best handled on the state level. These laws make it impossible, impractical, and in some cases illegal for the states to experiment with programs and services.

The freedom to experiment with different programs is the key to good social/domestic policy. The states should be the primary architects of this nation's domestic policy. Allowing different states to create different programs, experiment with what works best, and allow other states to look at what their neighbors did right/wrong in the area of social policy. This is the only legitimate solution to our nation's problems. I'm positively begging the American people to stop looking toward the Federal government to solve their problems. Allow more progressive states to craft their own progressive-style social policy. Allow more conservative states to do the same. Allow the battleground states to come up with something in the middle. Let the Tea Party folks in moe conservative states get a taste for a government that refuses to address social problems. Let liberal folks in more liberal states see their state economies grind to a halt because of too large and costly a social policy. I truly believe that eventually most states would come up with solutions squarely in the middle where most Americans want their politicians to reach a consensus.

Now, I'm not naive enough to believe that any of that will ever come to fruition. I believe just the opposite. What I truly believe is that our country will continue down the path its been on until there is a total and complete social collapse, and I have no expectation that what follows that will be any better than what it replaces.

[marfacowboy]

I do not deny that providing services to the citizenry is a proper function of government. Everything from retirement to healthcare to clean streets are a function of government. But, I will always believe that social services are best provided at the state level where the government is closest to the people and, theoretically, more responsive to the people. I don't believe that a one-size-fits-all national policy is the best way to go in a country as diverse as ours. There are VAST socio-economic and cultural differences from state to state and those difference should have an impact on the government's social policy. That simply cannot be done at the Federal level. States are in a better position to identify and solve problems unique to their own state.

What makes that impossible are the myriad of Federal laws that supersede state law on domestic policy issues. The tax code is built in such a way as to raise revenue for the purpose of funding a never ending number of Federal programs that are best handled on the state level. These laws make it impossible, impractical, and in some cases illegal for the states to experiment with programs and services.

The freedom to experiment with different programs is the key to good social/domestic policy. The states should be the primary architects of this nation's domestic policy. Allowing different states to create different programs, experiment with what works best, and allow other states to look at what their neighbors did right/wrong in the area of social policy. This is the only legitimate solution to our nation's problems. I'm positively begging the American people to stop looking toward the Federal government to solve their problems. Allow more progressive states to craft their own progressive-style social policy. Allow more conservative states to do the same. Allow the battleground states to come up with something in the middle. Let the Tea Party folks in moe conservative states get a taste for a government that refuses to address social problems. Let liberal folks in more liberal states see their state economies grind to a halt because of too large and costly a social policy. I truly believe that eventually most states would come up with solutions squarely in the middle where most Americans want their politicians to reach a consensus.

Now, I'm not naive enough to believe that any of that will ever come to fruition. I believe just the opposite. What I truly believe is that our country will continue down the path its been on until there is a total and complete social collapse, and I have no expectation that what follows that will be any better than what it replaces.

Well, the states already control welfare distribution for unemployment.

You statement about letting people solve their own problems reminds me of a line from the film The Outlaw Josey Wales. Wales is talking to Ten Bears and says "Governments don't live together, people do." I think there is something to be said for people in their own communities solving their respective issues. In fact, the only place real democracy occurs in this nation is in our homes, some workplaces, our communities and maybe one day in our bioregions. It's where people get together to solve problems, and they solve them through discussion, often even with consensus decision making. What happens in Washington is not democracy. It's a bought and paid for Representative body.

But in the event they can't, or when they act in ways that are antithetical to democracy and fairness, that's when the Federal government steps in to solve the issues.

Edward Abbey once said, "The purpose and function of government is not to preside over change but to prevent change. By political methods when unavoidable, by violence when convenient." There's a lot of truth to that statement.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You cannot go walking around being some big bad *** conservative and still suck on the government tit. It doesn't work that way.Better he know the truth and espouse it, rather than not, or clamming up. If you are correct about his employment, I can't condone some of his decisions there, but at least he is aware that the situation is a problem. And, he DOES have a right to speak his opinion, just as you do.

[sappstuf]

Well, the states already control welfare distribution for unemployment.

You statement about letting people solve their own problems reminds me of a line from the film The Outlaw Josey Wales. Wales is talking to Ten Bears and says "Governments don't live together, people do." I think there is something to be said for people in their own communities solving their respective issues. In fact, the only place real democracy occurs in this nation is in our homes, some workplaces, our communities and maybe one day in our bioregions. It's where people get together to solve problems, and they solve them through discussion, often even with consensus decision making. What happens in Washington is not democracy. It's a bought and paid for Representative body.

But in the event they can't, or when they act in ways that are antithetical to democracy and fairness, that's when the Federal government steps in to solve the issues.

Edward Abbey once said, "The purpose and function of government is not to preside over change but to prevent change. By political methods when unavoidable, by violence when convenient." There's a lot of truth to that statement.

It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I think the USPS runs pretty well. It's amazing to me that I can mail a letter from Baltimore to Los Angeles for less than fifty cents and it usually shows up in less than three days. Our military works well. It's the best on the planet. Corporation For Public Broadcasting, the National Park Service.

Social Security was enacted largely in response to the number of elderly people living in poverty. At the time it was created, that number exceeded 50%. The fact of the matter is in a large complex society such as ours, you have to have safety nets for people. Not everyone is going to be able to build their own nest egg, and it would be unconscionable to think that the needy should simply be left to die under a viaduct somewhere. The program has to be national, because it's a national issue.

One of the foremost Christian intellectuals of our age, Francis Schaeffer, stated that ultimately human societies are judged by how they treated their own people. Our record is a mixed bag. In one period, we had slavery, lack of voting rights for women, discrimination against Spanish speaking people and the genocide of Native peoples. Then we progressed a bit with social programs and laws. By the late 60's, Jim Crow was buried and racism only lingered in the hearts of poorly educated louts. But now it appears we're in danger of going backward, dismantling many of the things we did well. When I listen to the lank language of the far right, I find truly frightening. It's all about privatization. Making the world more comfortable for corporations, even corporations that are highly destructive and damaging not only to small business and local communities, but to the land.

Keep in mind corporations only exist to do one thing. Return share holder value. That's all they're tasked to do according to their charters. The people within corporations will do whatever is necessary to advance their own star. Anyone at the top that doesn't increase shareholder value will not long last. And there are huge profits to be made. I know because I worked for two huge corporations in the 1980's and early 1990's. I know full well what goes on. For all the good many corporations do, they cannot be allowed to operate freely, governed only by the market. We have plenty of evidence that illustrates the extreme dangers in that scenario. Destroy or gut EPA at your own peril.

Oh, and if you're a policeman, fireman or other union worker, beware. Those in power are out to break you, too. Don't think there isn't already talk of privatizing municipal police forces. The GOP is not your friend.That's boiler plate schtick there, comrade marfac. Hail the Government. They know best, and should have the right to complete control of everything, including our very lives.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I do not deny that providing services to the citizenry is a proper function of government. Everything from retirement to healthcare to clean streets are a function of government. .NO WONDER!

[JohnnyMack]

That's boiler plate schtick there, comrade marfac. Hail the Government. They know best, and should have the right to complete control of everything, including our very lives.

When the **** did he say anything approaching that you bat**** crazy nincompoop?

[marfacowboy]

When the **** did he say anything approaching that you bat**** crazy nincompoop?

It's the last refuge for people like him. Just regurgitate whatever non-sensical spittle you can think of. Poke fun at the messenger, avoid the message. Repeat the party mantra over and over and over. He's overmatched.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

When the **** did he say anything approaching that you bat**** crazy nincompoop?Yeah, that's the kind of comment we've come to expect from you. Read his indictment of the Private Sector and conservatives again, and maybe you will begin to have an inkling of a tiny flicker of light in some remote corner of the bean about it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

It's the last refuge for people like him. Just regurgitate whatever non-sensical spittle you can think of. Poke fun at the messenger, avoid the message. Repeat the party mantra over and over and over. He's overmatched.See post 69, Einstein.

[TUSooner]

It's the last refuge for people like him. Just regurgitate whatever non-sensical spittle you can think of. Poke fun at the messenger, avoid the message. Repeat the party mantra over and over and over. He's overmatched.

That's Rushie! He coughs up a hairball and acts like he knitted a cashmere sweater.

[TUSooner]

I do not deny that providing services to the citizenry is a proper function of government. Everything from retirement to healthcare to clean streets are a function of government. But, I will always believe that social services are best provided at the state level where the government is closest to the people and, theoretically, more responsive to the people. I don't believe that a one-size-fits-all national policy is the best way to go in a country as diverse as ours. There are VAST socio-economic and cultural differences from state to state and those difference should have an impact on the government's social policy. That simply cannot be done at the Federal level. States are in a better position to identify and solve problems unique to their own state.

What makes that impossible are the myriad of Federal laws that supersede state law on domestic policy issues. The tax code is built in such a way as to raise revenue for the purpose of funding a never ending number of Federal programs that are best handled on the state level. These laws make it impossible, impractical, and in some cases illegal for the states to experiment with programs and services.

The freedom to experiment with different programs is the key to good social/domestic policy. The states should be the primary architects of this nation's domestic policy. Allowing different states to create different programs, experiment with what works best, and allow other states to look at what their neighbors did right/wrong in the area of social policy. This is the only legitimate solution to our nation's problems. I'm positively begging the American people to stop looking toward the Federal government to solve their problems. Allow more progressive states to craft their own progressive-style social policy. Allow more conservative states to do the same. Allow the battleground states to come up with something in the middle. Let the Tea Party folks in moe conservative states get a taste for a government that refuses to address social problems. Let liberal folks in more liberal states see their state economies grind to a halt because of too large and costly a social policy. I truly believe that eventually most states would come up with solutions squarely in the middle where most Americans want their politicians to reach a consensus.

Now, I'm not naive enough to believe that any of that will ever come to fruition. I believe just the opposite. What I truly believe is that our country will continue down the path its been on until there is a total and complete social collapse, and I have no expectation that what follows that will be any better than what it replaces.

That's great theory, and I surely agree that the states should be the incubators and testing grounds for ideas. I suppose the biggest obstacle to that ideal is the need for commercial uniformity (Commerce Clause stuff) and the need to ensure the respect for federal constitutional rights in all the states. The devil's in the details, they say.

[marfacowboy]

It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues.

Ain't that the truth.

[marfacowboy]

That's Rushie! He coughs up a hairball and acts like he knitted a cashmere sweater.

That's a keeper.

[marfacowboy]

Yeah, that's the kind of comment we've come to expect from you. Read his indictment of the Private Sector and conservatives again, and maybe you will begin to have an inkling of a tiny flicker of light in some remote corner of the bean about it.

I've laid blame at the feet of both the government and the private sector. You have to have balance. You can't have an unregulated free market. Didn't we learn anything from 2008 and from the BP disaster in the Gulf? My god. I've stated clearly that we need smaller government, but it can't be the way the far right describes. That's insane. But the fact of the matter is I don't think anyone in the GOP really even believes half the things they say. They're just responding to a illogical base that's frothing at the mouth over things that don't even exist.
Not all corporations are bad, but a few of them are worse than bad. They're literally a threat to health, ecosystems democracy and freedom.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

That's Rushie! He coughs up a hairball and acts like he knitted a cashmere sweater.Your brilliant reliance on the stupid card serves you well.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

...I don't think anyone in the GOP really even believes half the things they say. They're just responding to a illogical base that's frothing at the mouth over things that don't even exist.
Not all corporations are bad, but a few of them are worse than bad. They're literally a threat to health, ecosystems democracy and freedom.see post #76

[marfacowboy]

see post #76

See a psychiatrist

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

See a psychiatristMarfac, that's just smart of you. haha What type of owboy are you, Dallas, Orange aggy, what?

[marfacowboy]

Marfac, that's just smart of you. haha What type of owboy are you, Dallas, Orange aggy, what?

Oh, just the dime store brand.

[JohnnyMack]

Yeah, that's the kind of comment we've come to expect from you. Read his indictment of the Private Sector and conservatives again, and maybe you will begin to have an inkling of a tiny flicker of light in some remote corner of the bean about it.

There's a good sector of the private sector that deserves to be indicted. And you're fooling yourself if you think it was anyone other than "conservatives" putting place the super convoluted tax loopholes and shelters that corporations could hide in.

[SicEmBaylor]

There's a good sector of the private sector that deserves to be indicted. And you're fooling yourself if you think it was anyone other than "conservatives" putting place the super convoluted tax loopholes and shelters that corporations could hide in.

The private sector is as capable of infringing upon our rights as the government and they do. The sooner my fellow conservatives figure this out the better. Centralized banking and everything that goes along with it has been a pox upon the house of the Republic.

[soonercruiser]

I think the USPS runs pretty well. It's amazing to me that I can mail a letter from Baltimore to Los Angeles for less than fifty cents and it usually shows up in less than three days. Our military works well. It's the best on the planet. Corporation For Public Broadcasting, the National Park Service.

Social Security was enacted largely in response to the number of elderly people living in poverty. At the time it was created, that number exceeded 50%. The fact of the matter is in a large complex society such as ours, you have to have safety nets for people. Not everyone is going to be able to build their own nest egg, and it would be unconscionable to think that the needy should simply be left to die under a viaduct somewhere. The program has to be national, because it's a national issue.

One of the foremost Christian intellectuals of our age, Francis Schaeffer, stated that ultimately human societies are judged by how they treated their own people. Our record is a mixed bag. In one period, we had slavery, lack of voting rights for women, discrimination against Spanish speaking people and the genocide of Native peoples. Then we progressed a bit with social programs and laws. By the late 60's, Jim Crow was buried and racism only lingered in the hearts of poorly educated louts. But now it appears we're in danger of going backward, dismantling many of the things we did well. When I listen to the lank language of the far right, I find truly frightening. It's all about privatization. Making the world more comfortable for corporations, even corporations that are highly destructive and damaging not only to small business and local communities, but to the land.

Keep in mind corporations only exist to do one thing. Return share holder value. That's all they're tasked to do according to their charters. The people within corporations will do whatever is necessary to advance their own star. Anyone at the top that doesn't increase shareholder value will not long last. And there are huge profits to be made. I know because I worked for two huge corporations in the 1980's and early 1990's. I know full well what goes on. For all the good many corporations do, they cannot be allowed to operate freely, governed only by the market. We have plenty of evidence that illustrates the extreme dangers in that scenario. Destroy or gut EPA at your own peril.

Oh, and if you're a policeman, fireman or other union worker, beware. Those in power are out to break you, too. Don't think there isn't already talk of privatizing municipal police forces. The GOP is not your friend.

If the USPS is an example of something that the fed does well, we are in real trouble.
I believe that the statistics are $Billions in the hole the last several years - $8 Billion last year alone!
Say good-bye (soon) to Saturday postal service.
But, I can live with that.
That's one good government cost cut that we will all have to live with.

[soonercruiser]

Some of this has been good give & take arguments.
But, some who can't argue facts, still seem to ultimately resort to the Alinskyian "attack the messenger" tactic!
:chargrined:

[marfacowboy]

If the USPS is an example of something that the fed does well, we are in real trouble.
I believe that the statistics are $Billions in the hole the last several years - $8 Billion last year alone!
Say good-bye (soon) to Saturday postal service.
But, I can live with that.
That's one good government cost cut that we will all have to live with.


There was an interesting article that came out earlier this month about the financial situation at the postal service. It pointed out that in 2006, Congress passed a postal reform law requiring the USPS to pre-fund 75 years of future retiree health benefits over a ten-year span. The act meant that every September 30th, the USPS had to cough up $5.5 billion to the Treasury for the pre-funding of future retirees' health benefits, meaning the Postal Service pays for employees 75 years into the future. The USPS is funding the retirement packages of people who haven't even been born yet.The Postal Service isn't paid for by taxpayer dollars, but rather fully funded by the sale of stamps. It was only a few years ago that the USPS was considered not only stable, but thriving.

[8timechamps]

I'm so far beyond angered at the people in DC, that I don't listen to much of what they say on any issue anymore. Our government has reached an epic level of gridlock, and the expenditures resulting from it, probably outweigh the benefits they think they are getting.

Is there a "reset" button I can push, you know...to start in over. Not "start it over" as in we're back to the 1700, I still want my modern conveniences of life, just am mad at being mad at the government. And the bureaucratic rhetoric BS!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The private sector is as capable of infringing upon our rights as the government and they do. The sooner my fellow conservatives figure this out the better. Centralized banking and everything that goes along with it has been a pox upon the house of the Republic.The govt. hold and wields the real power over everything, including banking, and you guys know it. You're flapping your gums when you ignore that, and I'm sure you know that too...or, at least you should.

Heck, marfac, diverdog and the rest of you libs are suggesting the govt. exercise their power even more than they already have, showing you know where the real power lies. Of course, we have laws that limit the power of the executive branch, but some folks are ready and willing to put them aside.

[TUSooner]

There was an interesting article that came out earlier this month about the financial situation at the postal service. It pointed out that in 2006, Congress passed a postal reform law requiring the USPS to pre-fund 75 years of future retiree health benefits over a ten-year span. The act meant that every September 30th, the USPS had to cough up $5.5 billion to the Treasury for the pre-funding of future retirees' health benefits, meaning the Postal Service pays for employees 75 years into the future. The USPS is funding the retirement packages of people who haven't even been born yet.The Postal Service isn't paid for by taxpayer dollars, but rather fully funded by the sale of stamps. It was only a few years ago that the USPS was considered not only stable, but thriving.

Yes. This is the reason the USPS is in a hole. Not because it's inefficient but because the squeeze is on.

[soonercruiser]

There was an interesting article that came out earlier this month about the financial situation at the postal service. It pointed out that in 2006, Congress passed a postal reform law requiring the USPS to pre-fund 75 years of future retiree health benefits over a ten-year span. The act meant that every September 30th, the USPS had to cough up $5.5 billion to the Treasury for the pre-funding of future retirees' health benefits, meaning the Postal Service pays for employees 75 years into the future. The USPS is funding the retirement packages of people who haven't even been born yet.The Postal Service isn't paid for by taxpayer dollars, but rather fully funded by the sale of stamps. It was only a few years ago that the USPS was considered not only stable, but thriving.

I seriously doubt that the USPS is already funding the retirements of future employees not yet born.
Come on now! Be serious! And, I thought that I was good at hyperbole????
Sounds like it was an attempt to make the the USPS catch up on future obligations of employees "present".
They'd just better hope that the spendaholic politicians don't rip into that like they did the Social Security Trust.

[sappstuf]

There was an interesting article that came out earlier this month about the financial situation at the postal service. It pointed out that in 2006, Congress passed a postal reform law requiring the USPS to pre-fund 75 years of future retiree health benefits over a ten-year span. The act meant that every September 30th, the USPS had to cough up $5.5 billion to the Treasury for the pre-funding of future retirees' health benefits, meaning the Postal Service pays for employees 75 years into the future. The USPS is funding the retirement packages of people who haven't even been born yet.The Postal Service isn't paid for by taxpayer dollars, but rather fully funded by the sale of stamps. It was only a few years ago that the USPS was considered not only stable, but thriving.

Yep, but they are going to have a $10 billion loss this fiscal year alone... They will be "loaned" taxpayer money to cover the difference because stamps do not cover their actual cost.. That loan is a worse bet than Solyndra's..

Mail peaked in 2006 and decreased every year since. First class mail has taken a devastating hit. Those two things have nothing to do with the retirement funding.

That letter is costing you more than 50 cents.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/technology/in-the-post-office-crisis-a-national-paralysis.html

[diverdog]

Yep, but they are going to have a $10 billion loss this fiscal year alone... They will be "loaned" taxpayer money to cover the difference because stamps do not cover their actual cost.. That loan is a worse bet than Solyndra's..

Mail peaked in 2006 and decreased every year since. First class mail has taken a devastating hit. Those two things have nothing to do with the retirement funding.

That letter is costing you more than 50 cents.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/technology/in-the-post-office-crisis-a-national-paralysis.html

Sapp:

This lands squarely on congress. The USPS is trying to do the right thing and congress is stopping them.

[sappstuf]

Sapp:

This lands squarely on congress. The USPS is trying to do the right thing and congress is stopping them.

Did I enter the Twilight Zone or something?? Isn't funding retirement a GOOD thing? Good grief.

They missed their payment in 2009... Or rather the Dems let them "defer" it.. I guess it would be better for everyone if they were allowed to continue to defer their payments... Any guesses when that deferred payment will be made? Probably July Neverteenth.. Which is when all the payments would be made if the post office had their way... How exactly, would that be better? Oh, they still lost 4 billion in 2009 even after they missed the payment.

By doing "the right thing", besides trying not to fund retirement, which you now think is a good thing, I assume you mean they want to stop Saturday deliveries.. According to the post office themselves, stopping Saturday delivery will save them $3 billion annually... This year they are going to be $10 billion in the hole. I guess all they need to do now is stop Monday and Tuesday delivery and work about a half day on Wednesday and they will be in the black..

Damn congress!

[SicEmBaylor]

Keep in mind that while the USPS is not wholly government funded, they can and routinely do take out low interest rate loans from the Treasury Dept. They wouldn't be able to survive without those loans. So saying they aren't tax payer funded isn't entirely accurate.

[diverdog]

Did I enter the Twilight Zone or something?? Isn't funding retirement a GOOD thing? Good grief.

They missed their payment in 2009... Or rather the Dems let them "defer" it.. I guess it would be better for everyone if they were allowed to continue to defer their payments... Any guesses when that deferred payment will be made? Probably July Neverteenth.. Which is when all the payments would be made if the post office had their way... How exactly, would that be better? Oh, they still lost 4 billion in 2009 even after they missed the payment.

By doing "the right thing", besides trying not to fund retirement, which you now think is a good thing, I assume you mean they want to stop Saturday deliveries.. According to the post office themselves, stopping Saturday delivery will save them $3 billion annually... This year they are going to be $10 billion in the hole. I guess all they need to do now is stop Monday and Tuesday delivery and work about a half day on Wednesday and they will be in the black..

Damn congress!

We.ll two things.

1. I was addressing the fact that the USPS is trying to consolidate operations, eliminate saturday delivery and reprice the mail. All of that has to be approved by congress.

2. The current funding schedule for their retirement is far to aggressive. No corporation could stay in business with the schedule that congess has placed on them. It should be reworked.

[marfacowboy]

I seriously doubt that the USPS is already funding the retirements of future employees not yet born.
Come on now! Be serious! And, I thought that I was good at hyperbole????
Sounds like it was an attempt to make the the USPS catch up on future obligations of employees "present".
They'd just better hope that the spendaholic politicians don't rip into that like they did the Social Security Trust.

Well, you can read the Act (http://www.prc.gov/prc-docs/aboutprc/paea/PL109-435PAEA.pdf) to verify it (because it's true) or you can take a shortcut and go to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Regulatory_Commission#Changes_under_the_Pos tal_Accountability_and_Enhancement_Act_of_2006_-_H.R._6407)and read about it. Facts is facts....

[sappstuf]

We.ll two things.

1. I was addressing the fact that the USPS is trying to consolidate operations, eliminate saturday delivery and reprice the mail. All of that has to be approved by congress.

2. The current funding schedule for their retirement is far to aggressive. No corporation could stay in business with the schedule that congess has placed on them. It should be reworked.

Well they didn't make their 2009 payment... So that will have to be reworked.. They lost $10Billion this year... So they probably won't make this year's payment either... It seems to me that it can only be considered "far to aggressive" if they are actually making their payments and that it IS being reworked no matter what.

If their payment is "deferred" this year as well, that will mean they will have actually paid $5billion over 3 years into their retirement fund. Considering the post office likes to brag that they are the largest employer behind Walmart, do you think that $1.6billion a year is enough to actually fund it?