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8timechamps
9/28/2011, 01:01 PM
Anyone watch this last night (ESPN 30 for 30 movie)?

It was the story about the dude that reached for the foul ball in game 6 of the Cubs/Marlins NLCS. If you don't know about Steve Bartman, here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bartman) the story on him.

I felt bad for the kid. It's a perfect example of people taking things (like sports) too serious. I'd like to think I would not have yelled at him, or thrown anything on him...but, I also know I've been in some situations where I may have been in the frame of mind to react that way.

Anyway, I can't believe the guy has remained out of the public eye since this event. My only guess is that the guy goes to work, then comes back home (I assume still with his parents) and stays inside. He's life was changed forever after that day.

Good movie...I would give it a thumbs up.

GDC
9/28/2011, 02:07 PM
I caught most of it, interesting perspectives.

tulsaoilerfan
9/28/2011, 08:33 PM
Yeah i saw it and even though it still pisses me off 8 years later, the guy didn't deserve what he got; freakin Alex Gonzalez and Dusty dumbass Baker are the real reasons the Cubs blew that game

The Ghost of Mex
9/28/2011, 08:46 PM
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?160025-Catching-Hell

Yes, this was a great documentary. I was shocked at how he was treated by his "friends" at the game. This was a very compelling story...

C&CDean
9/28/2011, 08:52 PM
Who cares? It's the cubbies. It ain't like anybody gives a ****.

The Ghost of Mex
9/28/2011, 08:58 PM
I can't stand em' either, but this was very well made. The whole incident was an enigma.

lexsooner
9/28/2011, 09:03 PM
I saw it and thought about starting a thread about it, so thanks 8timechamps. I agree that Bartman was mistreated. Every fan who hurled abuse at him would have lunged to try and catch that ball if they had been in the area. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and every frustration ever felt by a Cubs fan was directed at him. It was interesting that they interviewed that Unitarian minister who spoke about scape goating and its history.

The parallel story about Buckner was also interesting. But one thing sadly sticks out about his story: Sox fans and the organization only chose to "forgive" him after they won a World Series or two in later years. That to me is not true forgiveness.

8timechamps
9/28/2011, 10:09 PM
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?160025-Catching-Hell

Yes, this was a great documentary. I was shocked at how he was treated by his "friends" at the game. This was a very compelling story...

Dude...I'm never gonna search to see if a thread has already been started. I just start it....cause I'm bat**** crazy like that :O Almost dangerous!

Anyway, yeah, I thought his friend looked like they were trying to distance themselves as much as possible from him. Nice friends.

bluedogok
9/28/2011, 10:20 PM
The parallel story about Buckner was also interesting. But one thing sadly sticks out about his story: Sox fans and the organization only chose to "forgive" him after they won a World Series or two in later years. That to me is not true forgiveness.
The Red Sox changed hands in 2002, the new organization is the one who "forgave him", not the prior owner.

The Cubs blew that series, not Bartman. They had their chances to win after that play and they still blew it.

CowboyMRW
9/29/2011, 12:57 AM
Didn't Moises Alou publicly state that there was no way he was going to catch that ball anyways. I swear I've heard that somewhere

Blue
9/29/2011, 02:16 AM
nm. heh

BigJerm7
9/29/2011, 09:49 AM
he saved them from further embarassment in the series.

Wishboned
9/29/2011, 09:59 AM
Didn't Moises Alou publicly state that there was no way he was going to catch that ball anyways. I swear I've heard that somewhere


He now claims he never said that.

rekamrettuB
9/29/2011, 10:30 AM
He now claims he never said that.

Hell just watch the play. The ball hit the high wall and, when watching the clips the other day, looks like he wouldn't have caught it anyway. He had a chance but who knows now?

badger
9/29/2011, 10:48 AM
I can honestly say that if I was a Cubs fan, a crazy, diehard, oblivious to reality Cubs fan, I would have been furious with Steve Bartman for selfishly sticking his hand out over the fence for a foul ball. It's not like there was an invisible barrier between himself and the field of play --- there's an actual wall there that basically screams "This is where the field ends and the stands start!"

http://cdn.faniq.com/images/blog/Picture%2053%282%29.png

Oh look at the widdle wall. It's soo koote.

So, there's that. And there's the obliviousness of the situation, where the guy is just kind of sitting there expressionless afterward, and beforehand, couldn't pay attention to the game enough to realize that there's a Cubbie player running right toward his section to make the catch.

So, yes there's sympathy with Bartman, but I have to say that as a sports fan, knowing the crazy Cubs fanbase, I can understand the anger of the Chicago mob a little bit too.

Now, I'm not a Cubs fan, so I think they're all childish and silly for reacting the way that they did. Silly Chicago. Your city is so rife with corruption that I just had to tear up laughing at Rod Blago saying he wouldn't pardon Bartman. You tell em, governor!

There's so many things to poke and laugh at about the Cubs, not to mention cast judgemental eyes of disapproval for, and Steve Bartman is just one of many. Let's list some of the anti-Cubs stuff we can throw out, shall we?

1- In the great homerun race, your guy Sammie Sosa came up second. And then, got caught corking his bat, his Cubs teammates destroyed his blaring salsa music boombox in the locker room and he ended up disgraced and outta the league soon after. What a legacy!

2- Your stadium is in pieces. Literally. Let's put seats on top of buildings nearby so we can have even more fans watching the game! Who cares if there's streets inbetween and you're not actually in Wrigley Field's ballpark. You can see the game from here!

3- Your lose a lot. And it'll never stop. It'll stop for Boston, but not you. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA


So anyway, long post short, "Catching Hell" was a fun watch. Check it out later if you didn't a few nights ago :)

lexsooner
9/29/2011, 11:06 AM
Didn't Moises Alou publicly state that there was no way he was going to catch that ball anyways. I swear I've heard that somewhere

I recall that in the documentary he said he would have caught it but for Bartman's interference. In his interview I got the impression Alou did not care about the heat which Bartman took regarding the incident. He never once said that people should let it go and Bartman was doing what any other fan would have done.

badger
9/29/2011, 11:10 AM
I recall that in the documentary he said he would have caught it but for Bartman's interference. In his interview I got the impression Alou did not care about the heat which Bartman took regarding the incident. He never once said that people should let it go and Bartman was doing what any other fan would have done.

I felt a slight language barrier thing going on with Alou, but despite that, also felt a sense of perhaps a little bit of sadness or regret about the event, that it became his legacy also, that the autographed picture requests aren't of him making a spectacular play, but of Bartman taking away his ball.

lexsooner
9/29/2011, 11:20 AM
A lot of folks involved in the incident expressed regret and outrage at the fans' conduct, but the one who seemed totally sincere was the security woman who accompanied Bartman and let him hide out at her apartment. She was in tears over how Bartman was treated and the dignified way he has handled something which has essentially ruined his life through no fault of his own. The tv people were shallow in saying they felt bad - you know if this happened again they would keep showing it over and over again and feature his face in close ups. Scott Turow is an arrogant p****, so who cares what he thinks?

Where in heck was security when that big goon threw the beer in the direction of Bartman and walked off without any consequences? It was videoed up close and the cameraman followed the thug as he walked away? There were a million cops on horseback outside the stadium, but no security or cops around Bartman until much later?

badger
9/29/2011, 11:27 AM
My guess is security feared for their own safety as much as Bartman's with the beer throwers et al. :(

And yeah, you know the security guard lady was being sincere because she went above and beyond duty that night, letting the guy stay at her apartment till things died down, etc.

ouleaf
9/29/2011, 12:09 PM
Have to feel bad for the guy because this whole situation has ruined his life. He didn't even get the ball and the guy who did sold it for $100K, but no one is mad at him. He did what any other fan would have done when a ball comes your way and that is reach out and try to catch it.

Would Alou have caught it even if there wasn't any fan interference? I'm not sure, and it's not like it even matter b/c the Cubs were still winning the game at that point. Such BS for a city and fans to villify a guy and ruin his life.

badger
9/29/2011, 12:14 PM
It makes you wonder: What would Texas A&M do if a similar situation cost them a chance at a football national title game?

Answer: Far worse than anything that was done to Steve Bartman.

What other fanbases would have gone beyond what the Cubs did?

Mississippi Sooner
9/29/2011, 12:24 PM
In all my life, I've never understood the lengths people will go to in order to get their hands on a baseball. If it's an historic home run that can be documented, I can sorta understand, but otherwise it's just a damn ball. Even more puzzling to me is why people will cheer the fan that winds up with it. It's just a damn ball.

lexsooner
9/29/2011, 12:38 PM
It makes you wonder: What would Texas A&M do if a similar situation cost them a chance at a football national title game?

Answer: Far worse than anything that was done to Steve Bartman.

What other fanbases would have gone beyond what the Cubs did?

West Virginia, LSU, and all SEC schools. The Aggies, pokes, and yes, some OU fans would have reacted like the Cubs fans - remember the death threats arising out of the Oregon game. But it should be great relief to Texaggie fans that this is a mere hypothetical which would never happen because they would never actually have a legitimate chance at the national title in real life, and will only get beatch-slapped in the SEC.

Wishboned
9/29/2011, 12:46 PM
Have to feel bad for the guy because this whole situation has ruined his life. He didn't even get the ball and the guy who did sold it for $100K, but no one is mad at him. He did what any other fan would have done when a ball comes your way and that is reach out and try to catch it.

Would Alou have caught it even if there wasn't any fan interference? I'm not sure, and it's not like it even matter b/c the Cubs were still winning the game at that point. Such BS for a city and fans to villify a guy and ruin his life.

I don't think Bartman would have sold it even if he'd kept the ball. He has turned down numerous offers to make money from this.

rekamrettuB
9/29/2011, 03:03 PM
In all my life, I've never understood the lengths people will go to in order to get their hands on a baseball. If it's an historic home run that can be documented, I can sorta understand, but otherwise it's just a damn ball. Even more puzzling to me is why people will cheer the fan that winds up with it. It's just a damn ball.

Ya some people even die trying to catch a silly baseball.

badger
9/29/2011, 03:07 PM
Ya some people even die trying to catch a silly baseball.

Think of all the people that suddenly make more noise, stand, hoot and holler for a free t-shirt at LNC. Then, when our team's on defense or we hit a huge shot, they return to sitting on their hands :)

rekamrettuB
9/29/2011, 03:10 PM
Think of all the people that suddenly make more noise, stand, hoot and holler for a free t-shirt at LNC. Then, when our team's on defense or we hit a huge shot, they return to sitting on their hands :)

:beguiled:

badger
9/29/2011, 03:19 PM
It is absolutely amazing though, isn't it? I bet we could be louder than Duke's crazies if we just gave out a t-shirt every time we hit a shot and then tease the crowd with one while we're on defense.

lexsooner
9/29/2011, 04:03 PM
Let's not even mention how people go stupid crazy when a tv camera is on them.

Pricetag
9/30/2011, 09:43 AM
I ended up staying up past midnight last night watching this because of this thread.

It's amazing how this man's life changed in an instant of stupid, blind misfortune, and how lucky everyone else with their hands up were. I have to give it up to Mr. Bartman for the integrity and consistency he has displayed in the years since.

Mob mentality is scary. It's amazing the things we will do just because everyone else is.

trey
9/30/2011, 09:49 AM
i watched it. i hope the cubs never get to the world series. "the friendly confines or wrigley field".....what a joke

yermom
9/30/2011, 09:52 AM
Cubs fans remind me a lot of OSU fans

i didn't watch this, but i'm thinking i'd move. they'd probably love this guy in STL or not care in OK or TX or something

8timechamps
9/30/2011, 01:38 PM
I ended up staying up past midnight last night watching this because of this thread.

It's amazing how this man's life changed in an instant of stupid, blind misfortune, and how lucky everyone else with their hands up were. I have to give it up to Mr. Bartman for the integrity and consistency he has displayed in the years since.

Mob mentality is scary. It's amazing the things we will do just because everyone else is.

A. You're welcome (I hope you didn't get a wink of sleep!)
B. That was my thinking (about Mob mentality). I noticed once things started getting scary for him, his friends seemed to act like they didn't even know him. I'd like to think I wouldn't do that, but given the situation, who knows.

What actually kinda pissed me off was the "Pub Owner" that was reaching for the ball also. He was talking like he made the decision to pull back when he saw Moses' glove...I call BS. The guy was flat out lucky it wasn't him, and the least he could do is admit that he was reaching for the ball.

Blue
10/5/2011, 09:17 PM
Watching this...Disgusted.

With Alou, Baker, the fans, the city, and mostly the sports commentators who refuse to apologize for how they handled it. Michael Wilbon is a fat piece of ****.

Blue
10/5/2011, 09:43 PM
"What is it about Steve Bartman that we can't let go?"- ESPN documentary narrarator

I let it go a week after it happened! Screw you ESPN!

24 hour coverage and sports sensationalism ruining your favorite pastimes since 1983.

thecynic
10/6/2011, 12:17 PM
A. You're welcome (I hope you didn't get a wink of sleep!)
B. That was my thinking (about Mob mentality). I noticed once things started getting scary for him, his friends seemed to act like they didn't even know him. I'd like to think I wouldn't do that, but given the situation, who knows.

What actually kinda pissed me off was the "Pub Owner" that was reaching for the ball also. He was talking like he made the decision to pull back when he saw Moses' glove...I call BS. The guy was flat out lucky it wasn't him, and the least he could do is admit that he was reaching for the ball.

thought the same thing.

I really disliked the one grinning mofo that still thought it was funny that he threw beer on him and got kicked out for it. talk about a pos.

TUSooner
10/6/2011, 12:24 PM
"What is it about Steve Bartman that we can't let go?"- ESPN documentary narrarator

I let it go a week after it happened! Screw you ESPN!

24 hour coverage and sports sensationalism ruining your favorite pastimes since 1983.

Exactly. Except it took me about 7 minutes instead of 7 days.
May the Cubs be forever cursed.

Pricetag
10/6/2011, 12:35 PM
thought the same thing.

I really disliked the one grinning mofo that still thought it was funny that he threw beer on him and got kicked out for it. talk about a pos.
Are you talking about the dude they interviewed by the pool table? Yeah, that guy didn't seem very contrite. Of course, he didn't seem very bright, either.

thecynic
10/6/2011, 01:02 PM
I don't remember if he was the one by the pool table or not, he had on a white shirt and had dark hair. looked kinda like Brad Garrett.

8timechamps
10/6/2011, 08:54 PM
thought the same thing.

I really disliked the one grinning mofo that still thought it was funny that he threw beer on him and got kicked out for it. talk about a pos.

Yeah, that d-bag pissed me off too. I just kept thinking "how old are you?". You could tell he was still giddy that he was the one that threw the beer. Moron.

Taxman71
10/10/2011, 10:20 AM
If I was Bartman, I would have taken the cash and happily drove off in my new luxury car. Cubs have been losers long before he was born and will be long after he is gone. Besides, its not like he can't still support the Cubs from home, he sure as heck isn't going back to Wrigley.

If you think Red Sox fans became POS after their WS, imagine if the Cubs won the trophy.

C&CDean
10/10/2011, 06:22 PM
Why is this thread still alive? It was the cubs. Nobody cares about the cubs. Nobody.