We are looking BAD!!!

[tooslow]

As usual, high expectations will result in a letdown. This may be the first year in many that I didn't get my hopes up too high. Along with out offense, our defense is also looking overrated. Yes, it's early, but I'm watching Mizzou do whatever they want on offense and defense. Their D forced a 3 and out and their O ran it down our throats for a TD on their first possession.

We are NOT playing like a #1 team. You don't see Bama or LSU letting any team this year treat them like an average team. As usual, I think the players have been reading too much about how great they are. Unless they play with more intensity, it'll be yet another year of, "Wait until next year!!" This is hard to watch. We are getting dominated, AT HOME.

On a side note, it's early and there's still nearly 4 full quarters to play. :D

Yes, I tend to overreact.... A LOT!!

[Okie35]

We'll still win. Just sleep walking right now and being a bit predictable.

[Ground_Attack]

man, we sure have our share of knee-jerk fans.

[tooslow]

We can EASILY come back to win. No doubt about that. My knee jerk reaction still sounds, though. A Championship team does not allow a team like Mizzou to jump out like that. It seems like we are playing like it's a road game. lol

With a few stops, I think we can still win by at least 2 TDs. We still gotta get the secondary cleaned up for future games.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Its going to be along night and its still early.

[tooslow]

Any idea if/when we ditch the high paced offense? It seems like conference foes and OOC teams with a few weeks to prepare have caught on. Just another one of my knee jerk reactions to just 20 minutes of play. :D

[tooslow]

On a positive note, we scored an actual TD when we had 1st and G from inside the 5yd line. That's usually meant just 3 points.

[Frisco]

Zombies only eat brains. Some of you folks are safe.

[En_Fuego]

As usual, high expectations will result in a letdown. This may be the first year in many that I didn't get my hopes up too high. Along with out offense, our defense is also looking overrated. Yes, it's early, but I'm watching Mizzou do whatever they want on offense and defense. Their D forced a 3 and out and their O ran it down our throats for a TD on their first possession.

We are NOT playing like a #1 team. You don't see Bama or LSU letting any team this year treat them like an average team. As usual, I think the players have been reading too much about how great they are. Unless they play with more intensity, it'll be yet another year of, "Wait until next year!!" This is hard to watch. We are getting dominated, AT HOME.

On a side note, it's early and there's still nearly 4 full quarters to play. :D

Yes, I tend to overreact.... A LOT!!


WHATEVER

[Sooner1972]

Still believe strongly that we can run the table with what is left on our schedule. Obviously we'll have to improve by a million in every single area if we even want to compete with the Alabama-LSU winner, but that is a long way away.

I really wish that we were playing Oregon again OOC. That would be an excellent barometer to see how we stack up.

[VA Sooner]

Chicken little. Time to close this thread.

[CrimsonRez]

a ratterree sighting !!!!!!

[tooslow]

Some of you guys really crack me up. Someone makes an honest opinion and you bust out the crimson and cream kool-aid and act like there's no issues with the team. Unless we make solid improvements, we will not be in a position to be a National Champion this year, or even Big 12 Champ at that.

It appears I will be right about at least a 2 TD victory, if this score stands. Hopefully the rest of my assessment will be wrong.

[tooslow]

I'll admit when I'm wrong, and I was wrong about us being a 2 TD better team than this years version of Mizzou. :(

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

College football is about matchups. They were able to put a more talented receiver on our #5 defensive back quite a bit. Not sure anyone else is that deep at the position besides TTech. Doesn't help that our linebackers can't run sideline to sideline and provide pretty much no support against the run.

[SoonerKnight]

Where were you in 2000? I watched us fall behind only to win some close games and dominate in the champiopnship games!!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Where were you in 2000? I watched us fall behind only to win some close games and dominate in the champiopnship games!!

I was on this board.

One thing that I'll challenge you to do is look at our secondary before the snap and see the confusion. This has typically been the case under Stoops until the Texas game. I'm not really worried about the busts so much as the fact that our linebackers just don't seem to be able to play the run.

[8timechamps]

I was on this board.

One thing that I'll challenge you to do is look at our secondary before the snap and see the confusion. This has typically been the case under Stoops until the Texas game. I'm not really worried about the busts so much as the fact that our linebackers just don't seem to be able to play the run.

Our linebackers didn't play as well tonight, so I'll agree with you there. There were some busts in coverage too...but some of the big plays were typical man-to-man plays you see with younger players in a safety blitzing situation.

What I don't agree completely with, is your assessment of the "confusion" of the dbs under Stoops. I see a lot of communication, and most of it is coming from the sidelines, so they're trying to get the call, communicate with each other and get lined up correctly. That is a fairly recent phenomena in college football (much like the no-huddle offense). It happens to coincide with Stoops being the head coach, but I don't get the feeling there is as much confusion as communication.

[Curly Bill]

Some of you guys really crack me up. Someone makes an honest opinion and you bust out the crimson and cream kool-aid and act like there's no issues with the team. Unless we make solid improvements, we will not be in a position to be a National Champion this year, or even Big 12 Champ at that.

It appears I will be right about at least a 2 TD victory, if this score stands. Hopefully the rest of my assessment will be wrong.

You catch on fast. I may or may not agree with any of your points in this thread, but yeah: you can't ever talk critical of the team or coaches, else you're not a real fan, you're a bandwagon fan, etc... It's pretty funny. :tongue:

[SoonerKnight]

I was on this board.

One thing that I'll challenge you to do is look at our secondary before the snap and see the confusion. This has typically been the case under Stoops until the Texas game. I'm not really worried about the busts so much as the fact that our linebackers just don't seem to be able to play the run.

I was actually responding to tooslow and his dumb comments. I agree we give up too much in the secondary. However, I stand by the fact that we did the same thing in 2000 and yet we won the national championship. Look FSU was hell of a game. These guys are probably still banged up from that game. Stuffs going to happen but this D is still good and will get better!

[picasso]

We can EASILY come back to win. No doubt about that. My knee jerk reaction still sounds, though. A Championship team does not allow a team like Mizzou to jump out like that. It seems like we are playing like it's a road game. lol

With a few stops, I think we can still win by at least 2 TDs. We still gotta get the secondary cleaned up for future games.
Again I will say that Kansas shredded our secondary a week before the Texas game, 2000.
Mizzou is tough.

[Sooner95]

Yea, not to worried. We looked flat coming out, and Mizzou came ready to play. Even with 2 turnovers, and giving up over 500yds to them, we still took control of this game in the 2nd half. Play this game AFTER Ball St? and we would have beat them by 20.

We will get a chance to heal up next week against a MAC team, then prepare for the RRSO..

[picasso]

Some of you guys really crack me up. Someone makes an honest opinion and you bust out the crimson and cream kool-aid and act like there's no issues with the team. Unless we make solid improvements, we will not be in a position to be a National Champion this year, or even Big 12 Champ at that.

It appears I will be right about at least a 2 TD victory, if this score stands. Hopefully the rest of my assessment will be wrong.
We beat Utah State by how many last season?

[Sooner1972]

My gut feeling both then and now is that FSU was really not that very good of a football team. I guess how you define success in this game is based upon your long term goals for this team. If the objective is just to win the conference I think that that will be relatively easy. If the objective is to have a prayer against the SEC winner then I think that we have a long, long, long way to go, and need to shore up so many aspects of our team to be competitive.

[picasso]

If only FSU was an SEC team. That would have been a helluva win.

[Soonerjesse27]

If only FSU was an SEC team. That would have been a helluva win.

we are to slow to play with a sec team......that always gives me a chuckle.

[oudavid1]

Remember that time we were down 14-0 to #1 Nebraska? And then (*ducks out of way of flying orange*).....well you know the rest.

[tooslow]

We beat Utah State by how many last season?

Exactly. What should have been an omen for things to come, was blown off by many here. You all remember the quotes posted here after that game: "Utah State should be ranked," "They are definitely a top 25 team," "Utah State will easily win their league and go undefeated the rest of the way." Didn't they end up with a losing record last year? Sadly, if there was a year for our home winning streak to end, this may be the year. We've got a few teams left on the schedule whose offense and defense are a step up from Missouri's. Would anyone feel comfortable betting the farm that we will finish the season undefeated? We keep playing like we did today, and a 10-2 season would not be a shock.

I have a feeling we will no longer be voted the #1 ranked team tomorrow, which is no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Hopefully that will be a wake up call to our players and they will start playing with a chip on their shoulder in every game from here on out.

[Piware]

Mizzou was better than I thought they would be. They are usually a lot of smack talk and quit by the second half. They had enough talent to make me pay attention in the 1st Quarter. On the upside, the Sooners shook off the cobwebs and mistakes by young players and got the W so I am a happy camper.

I don't care about the #1 ranking. All I care about is the Chase for 8. BOOMER SOONER!

[IronHorseSooner]

I have a feeling we will no longer be voted the #1 ranked team tomorrow, which is no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Hopefully that will be a wake up call to our players and they will start playing with a chip on their shoulder in every game from here on out.

Here's the thing, though, about voting a team #1 versus anywhere else. Generally, you don't drop a #1 team, especially one who wins a game by double-digits against a good opponent after having fought a tough game the week before, and who didn't have their full compliment of guys. Coaches, and most media (aka Herbie) have a view that the #1 team gets everybody's best shots each week, and until they lose, you don't drop them. Every other team is generally fair game for movement. We will lose votes, but not drop. You have to remember that some of the folks pumping LSU/'Bama to #1 are SEC homers (ie Rece Davis- 'Bama grad).

Also, don't sleep on the fact that the Big 12 continues to have the best non-con record of ALL conferences, to include the mighty SEC, with one of the only two losses by Mizzou, which was on the road in OT against an ASU team that just stomped SUC! OU, OSU, A&M, *, and Baylor are all ranked, and I could make cases for ISU, KSTATE, possible Tech, and maybe Mizzou (sorry KU, but you stink)!

People may view this a sunshine-pumping, but we have to take this in context. We took a good team's best shot when we were in a bit of a let-down game without all of OUr guys, and still won by double-digits, with the last TD in garbage time. LSU and 'Bama (as much as I respect them) don't have the target of #1 on their chests, even though they are in the SEC, and that is a HUGE difference (just as 'Bama fans about last year).

[C&CDean]

Gosh, there's a whole lotta stupid going on in this thread. Well not a whole lot, but too much.

[cleller]

Well, Stoops, Venables, and Travis were all pretty self-critical last night. Whatever focus that may have been lacking is going to get addressed. By the time we get to Dallas, things could look a lot different in discipline and intensity.
Missouri does always seem to play us hard.

[BoulderSooner79]

The thing I liked in this game was mid-game adjustments. We clearly had the wrong packages and/or personal out there on D to start the game and then throttled them after the first 2 scores. Their 3rd score came with the game almost out of reach - would have taken a series of miracles. And the last score just window dressing for them. I'm not sure if the offense made adjustments or just started playing better after a slow start. This kind of game will make us better. Be calm and focused and don't get rattled - it's a 4 qtr game.

[sOUnder]

If Missouri hadn't choked away that game at Arizona State a couple of weeks ago, they would have been ranked last night. AZ State dismembered USC yesterday, furthering the notion that maybe Mizzou is better than their (non) ranking.

I give them credit for not rolling over when they were down 17.

[GottaHavePride]

1. We started slow because we were beat up from FSU.

2. We had some key guys out.

3. We won by 10. Once we took the lead, this game was never in doubt.

4. Go back and check the replay of their last touchdown. #9 TOTALLY bit on a fake and blew his coverage. If he keeps his guy covered, Franklin has nowhere to throw and gets absolutely flattened by the safety blitz (which was completely unblocked, btw). He screwed up for 1/2 a second and bam, Mizzou touchdown.

[BoulderSooner79]

If Missouri hadn't choked away that game at Arizona State a couple of weeks ago, they would have been ranked last night. AZ State dismembered USC yesterday, furthering the notion that maybe Mizzou is better than their (non) ranking.

I give them credit for not rolling over when they were down 17.

That Franklin kid is good and this was only his 4th start. We put him under pressure many times and were never able to force a turnover. Pretty impressive.

[BoulderSooner79]

1. We started slow because we were beat up from FSU.

2. We had some key guys out.

3. We won by 10. Once we took the lead, this game was never in doubt.

4. Go back and check the replay of their last touchdown. #9 TOTALLY bit on a fake and blew his coverage. If he keeps his guy covered, Franklin has nowhere to throw and gets absolutely flattened by the safety blitz (which was completely unblocked, btw). He screwed up for 1/2 a second and bam, Mizzou touchdown.

I agree Lynn messed up his coverage on that play, but otherwise played a strong game. It's going to pay off down the line that we are getting experience for these young guys.

[GottaHavePride]

I agree Lynn messed up his coverage on that play, but otherwise played a strong game. It's going to pay off down the line that we are getting experience for these young guys.

Exactly. But that's a correctable mistake, not an end of the world "ZOMG WE'RE TURRIBLE THOSE LOOZEYANUNS WILL ET OUR BABBYS!" kind of problem.

He'll probably hear plenty about that Monday morning.

[Jdog]

Last night memorial stadium didn't provide OU with much of a home field advantage. Fans kind of slept through the first quarter and a half of last nights game. maybe time for Bob to call 'em out for it.

[GottaHavePride]

After FSU, Mizzou is a small-potatoes opponent to our fans. And once we started putting the boot in at the start of the second half, they just sat back and watched. A lot of them probably started heading for their cars "to beat the rush" after the 3rd quarter. It's been that way for at least 10 years. They'll get riled up when someone like Nebraska or Alabama shows up with a #1 or #2 ranking, and they hate the damn Pokes, but that's about it.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I agree Lynn messed up his coverage on that play, but otherwise played a strong game. It's going to pay off down the line that we are getting experience for these young guys.

Lynn got abused on 3 of their 4 TD drives. Like I said above, they got some favorable matchups on our #5 defensive back. When you play man coverage with no safety over the top, that is going to happen. Everyone has been screaming for more man coverage for the last decade, well this is what happens in man coverage when you have a coverage mismatch.

[BoulderSooner79]

Lynn got abused on 3 of their 4 TD drives. Like I said above, they got some favorable matchups on our #5 defensive back. When you play man coverage with no safety over the top, that is going to happen. Everyone has been screaming for more man coverage for the last decade, well this is what happens in man coverage when you have a coverage mismatch.

Inexperienced guys will make mistakes if you play them and never get experienced if you don't. I still like what I saw last night with Lynn. Even if he covers that guy well on the TD play, there is no guarantee it's not complete anyway - the rules favor the receiver in a 1 on 1 situation.

[tooslow]

Thanks for the few level headed replies. As for the name calling, real nice. Lots of ignorance around here. I didn't realize I couldn't express my opinion that differs from the majority. I hope Travis Lewis doesn't show up here. He will be in for a rude awakening since he was quoted as saying, "We played like a 25th-, 30th-ranked team," "We are not the No. 1 ranked team in the nation right now." Actually, I'm sure the majority would then agree that we did not look good. Much easier for some fans to hear criticism from members of the team, as opposed to fellow fans who call it like they see it.

In order not to continue ruffling feathers, mods are more than welcome to close this thread.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Inexperienced guys will make mistakes if you play them and never get experienced if you don't. I still like what I saw last night with Lynn. Even if he covers that guy well on the TD play, there is no guarantee it's not complete anyway - the rules favor the receiver in a 1 on 1 situation.

This is more than inexperience, we just don't have a lot of guys that seem to fit the mold of an SEC man to man defense. It was one thing that I loved about the zone - the ability to hide less talented positions and force offenses to pound themselves against our stars.

Against FSU we were able to limit it for the most part, but against Mizzou they were able to get those weaker positions exposed in open space 1 on 1 8-10 times with some pretty good results. How many times did you see our DBs with their backs turned to the LOS chasing a receiver as a running back with the ball bore down on them? How many times did you see running plays where there wasn't a linebacker in the picture? How many times did you see a DE make a solo tackle to prevent a long running play?

This seriously is the most talented set of DEs I've seen at OU. The rest not so much. I just have to wonder when I watch team after team with a fireplug that can clog the middle and we get blown 3 yards off the ball. :(

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Lynn had a bad game...Javon Harris had a bad game..Other than Frank Alexander, I don't know who did. Well, Hurst played well also. Lynn was stuck playing man to man but playing with a zone technique. He was isolated against Moe early on one of the scoring drives I believe. Moe runs 5-6 yards at him then cut to the middle of the field. Lynn watches him run to him and then make the cut. Moe takes 3 steps out of his cut before Lynn decides to go with him. End result is Lynn chasing him and a big completion.

And it bothers me that Fleming just seems to not know what the heck is going on. A few plays, he's not even looking for the ball at all.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Lynn had a bad game...Javon Harris had a bad game..Other than Frank Alexander, I don't know who did. Well, Hurst played well also. Lynn was stuck playing man to man but playing with a zone technique. He was isolated against Moe early on one of the scoring drives I believe. Moe runs 5-6 yards at him then cut to the middle of the field. Lynn watches him run to him and then make the cut. Moe takes 3 steps out of his cut before Lynn decides to go with him. End result is Lynn chasing him and a big completion.

And it bothers me that Fleming just seems to not know what the heck is going on. A few plays, he's not even looking for the ball at all.

That was the 2nd TD for Mizzou. I just don't understand how you can let your most inexperienced DB have the most difficult cover (interior slot no safety help so hard jam with inside leverage). Compounding those problems was that they also gave him Mizzou's best route runner. Geez, you could see the drool on the TV.

Along with Alexander and Hurst, I thought Colvin, RJ Washington, and Ronnell played well. We have the guys on the outside to play man, but we don't have the middle (DT/LB/S). I just can't help but think that this was a test to see if we play zone the rest of the way or if we are going to just try to improve our technique over the next 2 weeks.

[BoulderSooner79]

I definitely noticed Fleming did not seem to play well yesterday or against FSU. Maybe this is a hangover from missing spring or he is being asked to do different things than last season when he played well.

[NormanPride]

Gabe looked like he wasn't used to really getting tested. We need to run Broyles at him more...

Do you think we get Travis back at 100% this year? I was disappointed in how their speedy RB was able to get the corner against us. I know he's really damn fast, but we should be able to close that off with our level of talent.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I definitely noticed Fleming did not seem to play well yesterday or against FSU. Maybe this is a hangover from missing spring or he is being asked to do different things than last season when he played well.

Every year our DBs look lost until the 5th game so I'm not as worried about them (although Lynn has a LOONNNNG way to go). As Picasso alluded to earlier, we got lit up in 2000 by Kansas (though we did have 5 picks in that game).

However, one thing that tends to be constant is run defense and right now, the only way we stop the run is with our front 3 (assuming Casey Walker in). Our linebackers are just so slow to diagnose the play and are ONLY looking at their single key. Let me get some pictures of that toss sweep TD and I'll show you what I'm talking about.

[Lawton4Life]

Mizzou wants to spread you out and either throw it or run at you in the middle. It's hard to defend both, especially if you dont know whats coming

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

While the game is kicking over from the Tivo, here are some stats that back up what we are saying.

1. Currently ranked #9 in sacks. aTm is ahead of us, but they also had like 10 against SMU.
2. Pass Defense - 96; Run Defense - 54; -> Remember sacks count against rushing totals, not passing
3. 23rd in TFLs (this is just bad when you count the sack totals)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Mizzou wants to spread you out and either throw it or run at you in the middle. It's hard to defend both, especially if you dont know whats coming

What you have to understand is that teams attack other teams based on film. That Mizzou film highlighted a LOT of weaknesses that pretty much anyone on our schedule can exploit. The key difference between Mizzou and FSU was not having Corey Nelson on the field. He did so many little things against FSU that made it hard for them to run the ball. I understand why he wasn't on the field (imagine Moe getting lined up against him [shiver]) but Wort is just so inconsistent from week to week.

[The Maestro]

Yeah, I am concerned about our linebackers. Needs to be a playmaker position. To this point, not happening.

And I will never understand the delayed blitz. On Missouri's second TD, the receiver caught the ball RIGHT where Javon Harris was standing when the ball was snapped...and 15 yards deep, he came on a blitz at the snap. Uhhhhhh...it takes 3 seconds to even get to the line and by then the QB is throwing right where Harris came from...touchdown Missouri. A delayed blitz is not a blitz...it is just like having 10 players on the field.

Oh well...win, advance, learn, fix and move ahead to next opponent.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I don't necessarily think its about being playmakers maybe but just being sound in their assignments..And not falling into the trap of standing and watching when you are supposed to be reading and reacting..

Of all the secondary, the player that concerns me the most is Harris. Not when he is blitzing, but just slow to the ball at times.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Gabe looked like he wasn't used to really getting tested. We need to run Broyles at him more...

Do you think we get Travis back at 100% this year? I was disappointed in how their speedy RB was able to get the corner against us. I know he's really damn fast, but we should be able to close that off with our level of talent.

It wasn't so much he was fast, but that 10 guys stood and watched..When everyone else stands still, it will make a fast guy look faster.

[NormanPride]

That is true somewhat, but I saw at least three plays where we had multiple guys going at him with what seemed like good angles, and he just ran around them. Now, some of that is taking poor angles, and some of that is that the dude was just really fast.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Yeah, I am concerned about our linebackers. Needs to be a playmaker position. To this point, not happening.

And I will never understand the delayed blitz. On Missouri's second TD, the receiver caught the ball RIGHT where Javon Harris was standing when the ball was snapped...and 15 yards deep, he came on a blitz at the snap. Uhhhhhh...it takes 3 seconds to even get to the line and by then the QB is throwing right where Harris came from...touchdown Missouri. A delayed blitz is not a blitz...it is just like having 10 players on the field.

Oh well...win, advance, learn, fix and move ahead to next opponent.

Yep, 2nd TD where Lynn got toasted. The delayed blitz works fairly well in some situations with certain personnel. I rewound that play like 10 times trying to figure out why we A) tipped it so early and B) were so far back when we started the blitz. From where Harris started, that was a 25-30 yard run at the QB. If he had amazing speed that is a 2.5 second run and in Pinkel's O the ball is typically out of the QBs hands in 2. Unless it is some kind of run blitz, it just isn't designed right.

[NormanPride]

Or was executed horrendously. I would lean more towards that.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

This is actually worse than I thought it was (note, the board shrinks down the pics, if you want to see the full resolution copy the link and look at it separately)

http://pics.ouportal.com/mizzoublitz1.png

Arrows show all out blitz. Circled the 2 corners jamming at the LOS. Note Jefferson has 2 yards more cushion than Lynn.

http://pics.ouportal.com/mizzoublitz2.png

1st issue is circled - Fleming allows an inside release.
2nd issue - Colvin rubs harris and delays the delayed safety blitz further. He should have went behind the safety.
3rd issue - Lynn is still backpedaling

[Side Note on Leverage] - As a DB you always push your man towards your help (either another player or the sidelines in that order of precedence). So if you have a safety over the top you want to force a player to the middle (called outside leverage). If you have no safety help you want to force them towards the sidelines (called Inside Leverage). One caveat, even when you have a safety over the top, not everyone can get help from him, thus even with a safety some defenders are "on an island" and have to force the receiver towards the sidelines.
[Reasoning] - the goal in man to man is to increase the difficulty of the throw. This is done by making the throw longer as well as giving the receiver less room to operate to make a catch.

http://pics.ouportal.com/mizzoublitz3.png

At this point the bottom side is toast.

1. Fleming's man has an easy shallow cross for big yards
2. Lynn looks like he is anticipating a curl route and is stuck in mud
3. Colvin hasn't closed on the wheel route which is wide open

The top side is still in good shape


http://pics.ouportal.com/mizzoublitz4.png

Lynn goes for a juke and jumps outside giving his guy the inside lane. Not good for the bottom side.

How about the top side? Notice that Jefferson has gone to neutral leverage on the inside move. If his guy was the primary post route he would have gotten it at this point. Hurst has overcommitted to the fade so he's vulnerable for the comeback route at the sticks.

Middle lane opens up for harris but he has 10 yards to cover and the QB is about to throw

http://pics.ouportal.com/mizzoublitz5.png

Separation on Lynn, Comeback route at the top gets Hurst

http://pics.ouportal.com/mizzoublitz6.png

Harris is 6 yards from the QB at the throw. Everything is starting to breakdown in the secondary

http://pics.ouportal.com/mizzoublitz7.png

This is the end of the play, he could have went to every receiver on the field and had at least a decent chance of a completion

[NormanPride]

They did this to us last year as well. We are in the middle of switching our recruiting to man coverage defense, and are still stuck with a bunch of guys more accustomed to zones.

[SoonerAtKU]

Why in the world would you make that call against that offensive package/formation? I know the conventional wisdom against a 5-wide set is to overload one side of the line and send 4 where they have 3, but you have to put your safety in a position to actually get to the QB.

Hell, even if you zone out one of your ends to help cover that wheel-stop, you at least take away that option.

Also, why in the world would you send Lewis in against an OT with no help? It's not like you expect that guy to pull out of the way and run-block somewhere else, right? It's 5-wide and he's the left tackle, he's not going to do anything other than put Lewis in the ground or eat him up (which he did).

Also, if Colvin's clear responsibility is #3 in motion, why is he playing so deep? What the technique reason behind that cushion? He's 10 yards away from his man when the play starts, and he finishes it 7 yards away.

Anyway, I don't know enough about all of this to criticize, but it's fascinating to see, so thanks, jkm.

[Breadburner]

That blitz had no chance.......

[stoops the eternal pimp]

If Colvin comes in more shallow, that creates a bigger cluster bomb..somehow

[SoonerAtKU]

If Colvin comes in more shallow, that creates a bigger cluster bomb..somehow

So he's acting as a sort-of safety for that particular assignment? I can see it causing a problem if he rubs one of the other guys off of their route.

[Breadburner]

I think its execution as well......

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay1-1.png

Just showing defensive balance

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay1-2.png

Showing the lane they rush through as well as Lewis's Gap. Frank goes full bore to force the QB to give the ball to the running back. This would have been a handoff to our heavy side if not for the bad snap.
http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay1-3.png

Shows bad snap and how it disrupts the timing.

Some things to note: Lewis watching the OL and not the play. Wort shooting the gap even though there is no chance of him catching the running back. This doesn't even get into the fact that he's running into a trap.

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay1-4.png

At this point, Lewis has no idea where the ball is, however he's not in bad position. The QB has several holes that he can choose. Wort senses a trap.

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay1-5.png

Wort gets detonated. Lewis is doing a great job of standing up the OL and still seeing the ball carrier. Optimally it would be IN the hole, but this isn't bad (and why I said his technique is better this year). One thing to note is that at this point no one realizes this is a run even though they should know by now. A long time ago, a DB coach told me that along with the 4 keys I was supposed to watch, I needed to key on a guard as a quick run/pass indicator. Guards are the most likely to go downfield to block (mainly a linebacker) and are the easiest key to determine run. You'd just fix one in your peripheral vision with the linebacker and if he got close to the LB, then you knew it was a run. Anyway, apparently no one else in the secondary has ever heard of that key.

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay1-6.png

1. Fleming has beaten his block but has no clue its a run (even though he was being blocked :cower: ). he makes no effort to close this down, later you'll see him blocked again.
2. Lewis gets his first test of his lateral speed

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay1-7 .png

Lewis just has no take off right now - 2 steps for the QB - 1/2 step for Lewis

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay1-8.png

Fleming blocked again. No Lewis

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-1.png

Same thing, showing the balance (This is the next play). The Mizzou coaches realize that we are outnumbered on this side and aren't going to beat anyone 1:1 so they overload it for hte big play.
http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-2.png

Basics of the option - 1 player is assigned QB, 1 is assigned Pitch. Frank has the QB who has pitch? Based on the number of people not going to the pitchman, I'd say we don't know. If I had to guess, I'd think Harris/Fleming have pitch. Please note the shadows of Harris, he never moves from there.

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-3.png

Not sure what kind of D we are in. Based on Wort I'd think it was some kind of robber.

[The X's are the guys who have no clue this is a run (note the guards)

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-4.png

Lewis makes a mistake here. He pauses in case the QB cutsback. He has to trust Wort will make that play.

Please note that if Everage were still playing there would be a blur heading towards the alley (running lane).

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-5.png

Lewis takes on the blocker, the hesitation cost him position. Wort is being incredibly passive right now.

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-6.png

Circles indicate holds they got away with (both were totally unnecessary).

Lewis shucks the blocker but is out of position because of the hesitation, One of Wort/Harris should get to the ball carrier.

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-7.png

Wort however just isn't moving. I find it ironic that Lewis shuffling is covering more ground than Wort is. Fleming needs to get his hands off the DB and head to the ball carrier. Worst case scenario its a flag.

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-8.png

That is a huge crease.

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-9.png

Hello Mr Harris, How you been?

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-10.png

and buhbye

[8timechamps]

Pretty good breakdown.

In the first play, however, I'm thinking Wort is on a blitz. In my opinion, and based on assuming he's blitzing, he's in position. If, on the other hand, he's just on a read, then he screwed up pretty bad.

You can definitely tell from this that Lewis is not at 100%. And the Mizzou coaches made a great call on this (Flemming didn't help much either) play.

I'm not sure you can say the DBs didn't realize it was a run, as they have responsibilities until they are sure the pass is out of the question. Also, do we still play a 1:1 option defense? I just assumed it's more of a zone, and Franklin's decision is based off of Alexander's intentions. With Lewis in the flat zone. You could be right though, I just don't know.

It didn't hurt Missouri that Josey has great speed, but there was a breakdown nonetheless.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm not sure you can say the DBs didn't realize it was a run, as they have responsibilities until they are sure the pass is out of the question. Also, do we still play a 1:1 option defense? I just assumed it's more of a zone, and Franklin's decision is based off of Alexander's intentions. With Lewis in the flat zone. You could be right though, I just don't know.

It didn't hurt Missouri that Josey has great speed, but there was a breakdown nonetheless.

My point is that once the guard goes more than 3 yards downfield and engages the linebacker (right in front of the referee) it CAN'T be a pass (except for a throw behind the LOS). That penalty is called Illegal Man Downfield.

I don't know how the mechanics of players playing a zone in a man to man defense would work. It just seems to risky that the offense runs someone with certain gap responsibilities off the play by using motion, etc.

[8timechamps]

My point is that once the guard goes more than 3 yards downfield and engages the linebacker (right in front of the referee) it CAN'T be a pass (except for a throw behind the LOS). That penalty is called Illegal Man Downfield.

I don't know how the mechanics of players playing a zone in a man to man defense would work. It just seems to risky that the offense runs someone with certain gap responsibilities off the play by using motion, etc.

You're right, I was thinking more about the CBs reading Franklin, you did mention the Guard tipping the play.

Isn't a Cover 2 of Cover 3 basically a zone/man combo? Or are you talking about offensive zone blocking?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

You're right, I was thinking more about the CBs reading Franklin, you did mention the Guard tipping the play.

Isn't a Cover 2 of Cover 3 basically a zone/man combo? Or are you talking about offensive zone blocking?

The 2/3 just refers to the number of safeties (and how they split up the field 1/2s or 1/3s). You can run any combination of man/zone with the other people in the shell.

[8timechamps]

The 2/3 just refers to the number of safeties (and how they split up the field 1/2s or 1/3s). You can run any combination of man/zone with the other people in the shell.

I do know that, I guess I was unclear about your comment (re:mixing zone/man). I've coached the 4-4 for a long time, but not an expert (by any means) on mixing secondary coverage.

[Partial Qualifier]

You guys can elaborate on the symptoms of an unfocused team like nobody's bizness

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I do know that, I guess I was unclear about your comment (re:mixing zone/man). I've coached the 4-4 for a long time, but not an expert (by any means) on mixing secondary coverage.

You said this - Also, do we still play a 1:1 option defense? I just assumed it's more of a zone, and Franklin's decision is based off of Alexander's intentions

My point was I don't know how you would have zone responsibilities against the run when your defense is playing man under. Typically when you balance out the secondary, someone has pitch and the alley.

[8timechamps]

You said this - Also, do we still play a 1:1 option defense? I just assumed it's more of a zone, and Franklin's decision is based off of Alexander's intentions

My point was I don't know how you would have zone responsibilities against the run when your defense is playing man under. Typically when you balance out the secondary, someone has pitch and the alley.

Okay, I see what you're saying.

From my knowledge of defense, unless we are playing a team that runs an option offense (which is fairly rare in our league), we typically give our outside linebackers D (and outside) gap responsibility. It's the ends responsibility to contain and take the nearest ball carrier...if by chance a team (that's not an option team) does run the option, the end will key whomever has the ball (which is probably the QB)...after the pitch, it becomes the OLB responsibility. He doesn't automatically play the pitch man, but I guess it's a given that he's got him if the play is strung out that far.

[The Ghost of Mex]

Wort gets detonated. Lewis is doing a great job of standing up the OL and still seeing the ball carrier. Optimally it would be IN the hole, but this isn't bad (and why I said his technique is better this year). One thing to note is that at this point no one realizes this is a run even though they should know by now. A long time ago, a DB coach told me that along with the 4 keys I was supposed to watch, I needed to key on a guard as a quick run/pass indicator. Guards are the most likely to go downfield to block (mainly a linebacker) and are the easiest key to determine run. You'd just fix one in your peripheral vision with the linebacker and if he got close to the LB, then you knew it was a run. Anyway, apparently no one else in the secondary has ever heard of that key.


What were the first four?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

It would depend, but mostly TE/FB/WR/QB (key would change based on offensive shifts/motion/play)

[NormanPride]

This is way too much confusion to be just normal jitters and lack of focus. Anyone else think we didn't prepare as much for these guys and were looking ahead at other opponents? Or that we tried to keep our D overly simplistic to not show anything to later teams on the schedule? It looked the whole night like our guys had been coached up on the basics of Mizzou, but not the finer points.

I don't know if that's a symptom of focus on what's being taught, or that what's being taught didn't prepare them enough.

[The Ghost of Mex]

It seems to me that in this game our two LB's were not very effective a stopping the run (shocking analysis I know...). They ran mostly outside the tackles and the LB's kept plugging middle gaps or were blocked inside most of the evening allowing nice running lanes to the outside. The times they were effective I noticed one of them would blitz from the outside and usually applied great pressure on QB. I think we should have played three LB's to help outside contain.

I'm going to suggest this to Coach V for next years MU game. I wished I had thought of this last week...

[NormanPride]

The problem with playing three LBs against Mizzou is that they never really have a running down, and who does Nelson cover?

After all of the talk, and all of the analysis of horrible play it comes down to this: We botched the first quarter, shut them down for the second and third (I think they got like 150 yards those two quarters and never past our 35). Then late in the fourth we laid back to eat time and prevent the big play, which they got in that option run. It was a day of terrible execution, showcased some of our inherent weaknesses, and showed off some nagging injuries as well. We will get better.

What would we be saying about the D if we hadn't laid back and let them score twice in junk time to eat the clock?

[Okie35]

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay1-2.png

Showing the lane they rush through as well as Lewis's Gap. Frank goes full bore to force the QB to give the ball to the running back. This would have been a handoff to our heavy side if not for the bad snap.


http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-9.png

Hello Mr Harris, How you been?

http://pics.ouportal.com/MizzouRunPlay2-10.png



and buhbye

I thought if Frank would've crashed harder on that down block he would've got that tackle. Did he? I can't remember what happened. Either way if he followed the tackles hip instead of trying to go around him he would've disrupted the play. I thought Javon got held but whatever he should've taken a better angle anyway.