Channel 4 breaking PAC 12 news...10:30 sportscast....

[Soonerus]

PAC 12 confirmed they are not expanding ???

[Dio]

Dean says it too- Ny Times reporting

[ouwasp]

Just saw this on Channel 6 in Tulsa... said Larry Scott couldn't garner enough support for expansion from university presidents.

What now?

[SOONER44EVER]

The Big 12 lives at least 1 more year!!! Yay!!!

[soonervegas]

I for one am looking forward to our first basketball game on the LHN.

Welcome to hell.......

[sooner KB]

Larry Scott:


After careful review we have determined that it is in the best interests of our member institutions, student-athletes and fans to remain a 12-team conference. While we have great respect for all of the institutions that have contacted us, and certain expansion proposals were financially attractive, we have a strong conference structure and culture of equality that we are committed to preserve. With new landmark TV agreements and plans to launch our innovative television networks, we are going to focus solely on these great assets, our strong heritage and the bright future in front of us.

[SoonerMom2]

Wonder if this will back off the SEC on MO?

[Ground_Attack]

LOL...what a cluster****. PAC12 Presidents didn't want to see their schools get ****-canned by the Sooners year in and year out.

[All_Day_28]

I just saw it on espn.com as well. What I don't understand is how they decided against it tuesday, but they weren't supposed to vote on it until thursday.

[colleyvillesooner]

****. We look really stupid now after our "demands".

Now, it's rethink the SEC, or stay in this piece of ****

[All_Day_28]

I wonder how much texas payed the pac-12 for them not to expand so texas could keep the big 12 together.

[Soonerus]

Scott is begging us one year and now acting like Utah and the Buffs filled their desires...something is wrong with this picture...

[Curly Bill]

I think it's an ESPN conspiracy! You know...since they hate us and all. :beguiled:

[Soonerus]

I would predict the full story is not out yet...Boren does his homework if he does anything...

[Curly Bill]

I would predict the full story is jot out yet...Boren does his homework if he does anything...

Yup, I ain't gonna believe anything til it actuall happens.

[SoonerLaw09]

Now that we're back in the Big 8, I didn't think it was possible to hate Texas more. But I do.

[MichiganSooner]

Channel 2 in Tulsa said Pac12 does not want to expand and SEC wants Missouri. Boren better move fast. We'll be stuck in a Big 12 with TX, Tech, Baylor, OSU, KU, KState, Iowa State. Talk about ruining your strength of schedule at least for league play.

[soonervegas]

So back to our "real" options....

TCU?
West Virginia?
BYU?

Probably need to try and go get those three.....

[Soonerus]

Do not underestimate Boren...

[Judge Smails]

What a cluster.

[kevpks]

Grab some Big East teams and get back to 12: West Virginia, South Florida, and TCU. A game in Florida every other year wouldn't be a bad thing. Plus it would be a nice boost for the program that Lee Roy built.

[Soonerus]

Grab some Big East teams and get back to 12: West Virginia, South Florida, and TCU. A game in Florida every other year wouldn't be a bad thing. Plus it would be a nice boost for the program that Lee Roy built.

No, do not settle...too early...

[Ground_Attack]

I wonder how much texas payed the pac-12 for them not to expand so texas could keep the big 12 together.

I was thinking the same thing.

[mgsooner]

Good god this is sad. Absolutely pathetic.

[Soonerus]

Keep the faith, geez, do not underestimate the Sooners brand....

[SoonerLaw09]

We've gone from holding the future of college football to laughingstock in 1 day. Didn't think it was possible.

The only solution to this is, win the whole ************ing thing.

[Statalyzer]

With new landmark TV agreements and plans to launch our innovative television networks

In the PAC-12? Do they even watch their own games on TV? They don't really attend their own games in person at least.

[sooner KB]

No, do not settle...too early...

Have a better idea you'd like to share? Raiding the Big East sounds like our only option at this point.

[SoonerNate]

I don't know all the details but I'm pretty disappointed in Boren right now.

[Soonerus]

I don't know all the details but I'm pretty disappointed in Boren right now.

How about that darn Bebee ???

[soonergirlNeugene]

Big 8 zombie apocalypse!!!!

[mgsooner]

The shine is off the rose for both Boren and Castiglione, BIG TIME.

[soonervegas]

We have three options:

1. Hat in hand to the SEC (alone)
2. Stay in the Big 9
3. Stay in the Big 9 and try to add 1-3

That's the real power David and Joe hold.....

[SoonerMom2]

From the realignment thread there is a rumor the doormats of the PAC 12 did in the realignment -- they didn't want any more competition but they don't win anyways. Bet the two AZ schools were part of that along with UT, CO, OR, and CAL.

Scott looks the worst in this because he was guaranteeing people he had the votes but he didn't. Wonder when they took the vote of if he found out earlier and that caused the remarks of Boren?

[kevpks]

No, do not settle...too early...

I am all for the Pac 12 move but not if they are going to jerk us around as if they hit the jackpot with Colorado and freaking Sister Wives Tech. If the Pac 12 doesn't change their tune quick I'd hope we boot Beebe out, smack Texas around next month on the field and the negotiating table, and secure the future of our current league.

[SoonerLaw09]

We *might* be able to de-rail the Mizzou to SEC thing and take their place....if we hurry up and do it.

[mgsooner]

I am all for the Pac 12 move but not if they are going to jerk us around as if they hit the jackpot with Colorado and freaking Sister Wives Tech. If the Pac 12 doesn't change their tune quick I'd hope we boot Beebe out, smack Texas around next month on the field and the negotiating table, and secure the future of our current league.

What do we have to negotiate with at this point? Are we going to threaten to move to the Big East?

[sooner KB]

From the realignment thread there is a rumor the doormats of the PAC 12 did in the realignment -- they didn't want any more competition but they don't win anyways. Bet the two AZ schools were part of that along with UT, CO, OR, and CAL.

Scott looks the worst in this because he was guaranteeing people he had the votes but he didn't. Wonder when they took the vote of if he found out earlier and that caused the remarks of Boren?

Word on the twitters is that the vote didn't take place, that Scott pulled the plug on his own. I've seen this from someone at the Austin paper and someone from the NYT. Who knows for sure.

[SoonerLaw09]

It just occurred to me that the Pac might have screwed the pooch. In a depleted Big whatever, we might be in a better position to dictate terms...such as, our own TV deal with one of the networks?

[jk the sooner fan]

all the "go to the SEC" talk is silly - given the public commitments Boren et al has made to osu....we arent going anywhere without them in tow - so unless the SEC has plans for both of us - you can forget that

just my opinion

[kevpks]

What do we have to negotiate with at this point? Are we going to threaten to move to the Big East?

SEC! SEC!

or

The conference grow a pair and just tell Texas no on some of their more outlandish plans for the network: high school highlights, conference games, etc. Maybe a new commissioner could help with that.

[3rdgensooner]

we have a strong conference structure and culture of equality that we are committed to preserve. With new landmark TV agreements and plans to launch our innovative television networks, we are going to focus solely on these great assets, our strong heritage and the bright future in front of us. This sounds a lot like a dispute with Texas' brand.

[sooner KB]

Would the SEC take OU/UT/OSU? If so, I think that would be decent.

[mgsooner]

SEC! SEC!

or

The conference grow a pair and just tell Texas no on some of their more outlandish plans for the network: high school highlights, conference games, etc. Maybe a new commissioner could help with that.

OU to the SEC is dead. That ship sailed a long time ago.

As for telling Texas no, how can we do that now? We have no negotiating power whatsoever. Texas can just say FU, what are you gonna do about it? We have absolutely no recourse.

[Soonerus]

Forget the SEC, I might stop watching football if OU went SEC...

[AlboSooner]

Would the SEC take OU/UT/OSU? If so, I think that would be decent.

Might be time to split with UT. Just play that game in October, but never hear from them again.

[SoonerMom2]

I am all for the Pac 12 move but not if they are going to jerk us around as if they hit the jackpot with Colorado and freaking Sister Wives Tech. If the Pac 12 doesn't change their tune quick I'd hope we boot Beebe out, smack Texas around next month on the field and the negotiating table, and secure the future of our current league.

Agree with you 100%! This may explain Boren's demands today.

[ouwasp]

all the "go to the SEC" talk is silly - given the public commitments Boren et al has made to osu....we arent going anywhere without them in tow - so unless the SEC has plans for both of us - you can forget that

just my opinion

Well, I hope Boren sez the he!! with osu now, it's every man for himself. But I have the feeling we don't have any recourse other than to try and salvage the Big XII. Geez.....let's hope at least Beebe is gotten rid of....

[kevpks]

OU to the SEC is dead. That ship sailed a long time ago.


All of this conference crap is too fluid to rule anything out.

[soonergirlNeugene]

Split to where though? With the Pac's about face, the only possibilities might be the ACC or some kind of frankenstein's monster mash up w/ the rejects in the Big East. Talk about an ugly situation. Anyone talking SEC has to realize that will never happen with us joined at the hip to OSU.

[mgsooner]

It's time for all of the Big 12 "power brokers" (snicker) to get on their knees and kneel at the feet of BYU. What a banner day this is.

[sooner KB]

Might be time to split with UT. Just play that game in October, but never hear from them again.

Yeah, I think OU/OSU/Mizzou to the SEC would work. That would put OU, OSU, A&M, Mizzou, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, and Miss St in a division. Not as good as P16, but I think it would be decent.

[Soonerus]

All of the " my hairs on fire" routines floor me, trust me OU will end up in a great situation.

[SoonerMom2]

Anyone want to bet that the PAC 12 doormat schools didn't want OK after seeing our game Saturday night?

Now you make lemonade out of lemons and beat the you know what out of every Big 12 school we face starting Saturday night!

We should never schedule another PAC 12 school in any sport.

[Soonerus]

It's time for all of the Big 12 "power brokers" (snicker) to get on their knees and kneel at the feet of BYU. What a banner day this is.

We just got rid of a weirdo group in the Aggies why would we want an even weirder group from BYU ???

[R@bidred]

As bad as it is for us, what do you think TU is thinking? What do we need to play in a BCS game? Could we play BCS as an independent?

[mgsooner]

All of the " my hairs on fire" routines floor me, trust me OU will end up in a great situation.

http://fredwillemse.com/joomla15/images/stories/mininformation.jpg

[okie52]

So boren misplayed his hand....why would anyone stick his neck out without knowing for sure you had an invite?

[3rdgensooner]

All of the " my hairs on fire" routines floor me, trust me OU will end up in a great situation.Agree. And we'll be kicking *** and taking names per usual.

[Soonerus]

TU is Tulsa, UT is Texas...

[Blue]

All of the " my hairs on fire" routines floor me, trust me OU will end up in a great situation.

Says the guy who would quit watching football if we went to the SEC. ;)

[Soonerus]

I was never convinced a long term commitment to the PAC was a good idea for OU...

[Soonerus]

Says the guy who would quit watching football if we went to the SEC. ;)

Great situation by definition excludes the SEC...

[sooner KB]

Soonerus,

Now that you've made it clear in this thread that you are against the SEC and adding BYU, what do you want OU to do?

[Partial Qualifier]

****. We look really stupid now after our "demands".

Now, it's rethink the SEC, or stay in this piece of ****

summed it all up nicely in 2 brief sentences.. spek


It just occurred to me that the Pac might have screwed the pooch. In a depleted Big whatever, we might be in a better position to dictate terms...such as, our own TV deal with one of the networks?

Not to mention, if the report is true, setting themselves up to be the runaway weakest megaconference, if in fact 4 or 5 megaconferences becomes our reality

[Peach Fuzz]

As bad as it is for us, what do you think TU is thinking? What do we need to play in a BCS game? Could we play BCS as an independent?

yeah we're not aTm, or osu, don't aggy this board up plz

[Curly Bill]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! LOL...Y'all crack me up! :smug:

[hawaii 5-0]

Waiting for now seems OK with me.

5-0

[SoonerLaw09]

Anyone know when the Big 12 contract comes up for re-negotiation? Would it be possible at that time for the all the other schools to just kick whorn the hell out of the conference?

[Soonerus]

Soonerus,

Now that you've made it clear in this thread that you are against the SEC and adding BYU, what do you want OU to do?

What's the hurry, OU is a hot commodity and why act like we have to respond to any first overtures, I think OU has many options...

[CarolinaSoonerFan]

I wish we could swap Neb for UT....come on B1G wouldn't you rather have the TVs instead of a partner who won't stab you in the neck?

[sooner KB]

What's the hurry, OU is a hot commodity and why act like we have to respond to any first overtures, I think OU has many options...

What are some of those options?

[mgsooner]

@JimVertuno Jim Vertuno
http://twitter.com/#!/JimVertuno

Big 12 source tells AP #Texas and OU officials to meet in next few days to negotiate deal that keeps both in league five years.

[SoonerLaw09]

What's the hurry, OU is a hot commodity and why act like we have to respond to any first overtures, I think OU has many options...

Wish I could think of one.

[SoonerLaw09]

@JimVertuno Jim Vertuno
http://twitter.com/#!/JimVertuno

Big 12 source tells AP #Texas and OU officials to meet in next few days to negotiate deal that keeps both in league five years.

'scuse me while I go vomit

[mgsooner]

Boy I can't wait to hear the spin from Boren about this. Better put your waders on because the bull sh*t will be knee high.

[Soonerus]

There is a lot of momentum for maintaining a major league in the heartland...OU and UT seem to be the key for this scenario, everybody else is fungible...

[SoonerLaw09]

and we'll be dealing with this crap for years to come.

[CarolinaSoonerFan]

@JimVertuno Jim Vertuno
http://twitter.com/#!/JimVertuno

Big 12 source tells AP #Texas and OU officials to meet in next few days to negotiate deal that keeps both in league five years.

Five years!!!!! At this rate things have gone lately that's like 50 years.

[SoonerMom2]

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
RT @JimVertuno: Big 12 source tells AP #Texas and OU officials to meet in next few days to negotiate deal that keeps both in league 5 years.


Also Blevins tweeted: Book this. PrezBoren was told he-#sooners & #okstate-had the votes 2 join #Pac12. There'll be denials everywhere. But that is a fact. #Big12

[Soonerus]

I only believe 10% of anything Deano says...

[SoonerLaw09]

Big East remainder staying put.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-conferencerealignment-bigeast

[dennis580]

Just saw this on Channel 6 in Tulsa... said Larry Scott couldn't garner enough support for expansion from university presidents.

What now?

Hopefully the SEC. Which should have always been our first choice.

[SoonerMom2]

You can bet money that Beebe will be packing his bag in the next week or so. If I was him I would resign immediately.

[mgsooner]

Big East remainder staying put.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-conferencerealignment-bigeast

If this is true, and if A&M ends up leaving, who are we going to add to get back to 10 teams? Houston? SMU? You must have at least 10 teams to be a BCS AQ conference.

[dennis580]

Wonder if this will back off the SEC on MO?

Hopefully it will get David Boren to give the SEC a call otherwise he has just lost all of his leverage to get Texas to reform the Big 12.

[Soonerus]

Geez, read entire thread...

[SoonerMom2]

Larry Scott according to west coast sources is threatening to resign as Commissioner -- can we swap him for Beebe?

[mgsooner]

David Boren just issued statement: "We were not surprised by the Pac 12's decision to not expand at this time...

"Even though we had decided not to apply for membership this year, we have developed a positive relationship with the leadership...

"of the conference and we have kept them informed of the progress we've been making to gain agreement from the Big 12...

"for changes which will make the conference more stable in the future...

"Stability has been our first goal and we look forward to achieving that goal through continued membership in the Big 12 Conference."

http://twitter.com/#!/Jake_Trotter

[CarolinaSoonerFan]

If this is true, and if A&M ends up leaving, who are we going to add to get back to 10 teams? Houston? SMU? You must have at least 10 teams to be a BCS AQ conference.

How about Montana?

[SoonerMom2]

We need to go after Air Force first as they make a lot of sense as far as being in the middle of the Country and their fans are AWESOME!

[AlboSooner]

Regardless if Scott told Boren they had the votes or not, it's OU who looks bad right now. I do hope this kills any Pac deals in the future. If Boren was lied to then somebody needs to pay for it.

[SoonerLaw09]

Good summary article here:

http://news.yahoo.com/pac-12-says-no-further-expansion-034032635.html

[Soonerus]

I am sorry Boren is sending very mixed signals...Rhodes Scholar and all but is he possibly losing it a little ???

[dennis580]

Scott is begging us one year and now acting like Utah and the Buffs filled their desires...something is wrong with this picture...

Whats wrong is the Pac 12 got way, way, way overpaid on their TV contracts, and thus no longer have the motivation to expand.

[SoonerLaw09]

Either Boren was lied to, or he really had no freakin clue what was going on.

[SoonerMom2]

Those demands today were done on purpose after reading those remarks -- Mr. Beebe has a bullseye on him right now and bet that UT agrees he needs to go.

[SoonerLaw09]

By doing what we did last year, we have allowed ourselves to become Texas' bitch in perpetuity.

Nice jorb, OU administration.

[sooner KB]

If this is true, and if A&M ends up leaving, who are we going to add to get back to 10 teams? Houston? SMU? You must have at least 10 teams to be a BCS AQ conference.

Just because the commissioner of the Big East says they are "committed", doesn't mean WVU or Louisville or whoever would jump ship to the Big 12? This is non-news. Of course the Big East commish would say something like this.

Edit: And if WVU was truly "committed" to the Big East, why did they try to get into the SEC?

[CarolinaSoonerFan]

It was reported on ESPN earlier that the Big East was going to offer the service academies membership. How much weaker would that make them??

[Soonerus]

By doing what we did last year, we have allowed ourselves to become Texas' bitch in perpetuity.

Nice jorb, OU administration.

Dumb comment...

[SoonerMom2]

Scott told their media including Schroeder that he had the votes to only add OU and OSU but the doormats including the AZ schools said no.

Wonder if this is going to kill the super conferences?

[SoonerLaw09]

Dumb comment...

In what way?

I assume you have a plan for getting us out from under them? You think they won't still run the conference?

[Serge Ibaka]

I still think that this is directly related to Left-Coast fans' unwillingness to travel to Lubbock.

I don't blame them. This never would have happened had we brought KU or Mizzou in stead.

[dennis580]

Do not underestimate Boren...

Boren is not infallible. He should have had a backup plan(SEC) instead solely focusing on the Pac 12. That was a HUGE mistake on his part. Hopefully he will give the SEC a call tommorrow.

[Soonerfan88]

You must have at least 10 teams to be a BCS AQ conference.

Then how is the Big East an AQ conference with only 8 teams?


Yes, this leaves OU with egg on it's face but quite a bit of it also splattered on Larry Scott. Why else would he call the meeting unless he thought it would pass? You just issue a statement about non-expansion, not get together and vote on it.

I was excited about moving to the PAC but am happy to stay in the Big 12 if * can be reigned in. I believe at this point TCU would become acceptable as a replacement for A&M since it leaves the overall Texas teams equal. I also wouldn't mind adding BYU and Air Force to get back to 12. Air Force is as good or better than Colorado on the field and has a bigger national draw. BYU isn't up to Nebraska's speed athletically but will help expand the conference footprint and fanbase.

[Serge Ibaka]

Boren doesn't want the SEC.

1, OU becomes immediately more irrelevant. The arguement that SEC match-ups would provide more "prime time" is a flawed idea--OU already enjoys as much media-saturation as is basically possible.
2, SEC schools suck. The PAC-12 was mostly attractive because of the academic-excellence of its schools.

[AlboSooner]

OK, I've lost faith in Boren. His latest statement makes him look bad,. He either got played big time, or was just posturing with nothing to back it up. We are stuck in the Big12 with no leverage.

[StatesEye]

What makes everyone think that Boren did not get exactly what he wanted? Stable Big 12, reduction of LHN coverage (no conference games, no high school games, etc.), A&M to return.....etc. etc.

[mgsooner]

OK, I've lost faith in Boren. His latest statement makes him look bad,. He either got played big time, or was just posturing with nothing to back it up. We are stuck in the Big12 with no leverage.

Bingo

[mgsooner]

What makes everyone think that Boren did not get exactly what he wanted? Stable Big 12, reduction of LHN coverage (no conference games, no high school games, etc.), A&M to return.....etc. etc.

Wait, A&M is returning?? who said that?

[JiminyChristmas]

Good thing there is no conference championship game trophy to present this year. AWKWARD.....

If you think that the new Big 8 is good for us, answer this; In 1995, would you have agreed to trade NU, CU, and MU for UT, TT, and Baylor? That's what we're down to.

Adding 4 crappy replacements will do nothing for us. There will be no respect nationally for this league. Sure, we'll win a lot of conference championships, but we will be viewed as the 5th best conference out of 6. Yippee!

[Serge Ibaka]

What makes everyone think that Boren did not get exactly what he wanted? Stable Big 12, reduction of LHN coverage (no conference games, no high school games, etc.), A&M to return.....etc. etc.

I can dig it. Boren wanted the Pac-16, or he wanted the status-quo.

[AlboSooner]

Boren doesn't want the SEC.

1, OU becomes immediately more irrelevant. The arguement that SEC match-ups would provide more "prime time" is a flawed idea--OU already enjoys as much media-saturation as is basically possible.
2, SEC schools suck. The PAC-12 was mostly attractive because of the academic-excellence of its schools.
The SEC academic thing is overplayed. They are not that bad, and Pac is top heavy, the rest is average. OU would be middle of the pack academic wise in the SEC, top 8-9 I think.

[Curly Bill]

Hey guys, you think we'll even bother to keep playing football and stuff now? Sheesh, what a buncha whiney-asses!

[Soonerus]

Please do not underestimate Boren or overestimate Texas...

[3rdgensooner]

1, OU becomes immediately more irrelevant. The arguement that SEC match-ups would provide more "prime time" is a flawed idea--OU already enjoys as much media-saturation as is basically possible. The red and blue sections are contradictory.

[SoonerLaw09]

I have not heard anywhere that aTm is not still leaving. While the SEC has denied the Mizzou thing, they have publicly said the invitation to aTm is still open.

[sooner KB]

A&M to return.....

Say what?

[SoonerLaw09]

Ok Rus and Curly, we've had just about enough of you two. If you want to join the conversation in a meaningful way, please do. Otherwise, quit just lobbing mud at the rest of us. Plzkthx.

[Soonerus]

Please A&M leave, weirdest people in the Big XII....

[Soonerus]

[QUOTE=SoonerLaw09;3348757]Ok Rus and Curly, we've had just about enough of you two. If you want to join the conversation in a meaningful way, please do. Otherwise, quit just lobbing mud at the rest of us. Plzkthx.[/QUOT

Ok Noob, you just need to listen to us...you are clueless..

[StatesEye]

Wait, A&M is returning?? who said that?

http://www.soonertimesbb.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=14556&forum_id=2

Much speculation but "people" have been talking to A&M.

[dennis580]

Have a better idea you'd like to share? Raiding the Big East sounds like our only option at this point.

Yes I have better idea its called the SEC. Boren should call the SEC tommorrow, and that should be our sole focus.

[soonergirlNeugene]

Stable Big 12, reduction of LHN coverage (no conference games, no high school games, etc.), A&M to return.....etc. etc.

We haven't gotten either of those things. Especially not with the current rumors coming out of Missouri, SEC smokescreen notwithstanding

[Curly Bill]

Ok Rus and Curly, we've had just about enough of you two. If you want to join the conversation in a meaningful way, please do. Otherwise, quit just lobbing mud at the rest of us. Plzkthx.

LOL... You make me laugh nOOb. I've pretty much been posting what I please where I please for a while now. But thanks for your admonition. LOL

[Soonerus]

Please do not lower yourself to the SEC OU.....

[oumartin]

Can we go independent now?

[Curly Bill]

Please do not lower yourself to the SEC OU.....

Hey! If you can't contribute to this whiney, hand-wringing thread in a more meaningful way you need to just leave! :tongue:

[Soonerus]

Can we go independent now?

Yes, that is an option people are ignoring...

[colleyvillesooner]

What makes everyone think that Boren did not get exactly what he wanted? Stable Big 12, reduction of LHN coverage (no conference games, no high school games, etc.), A&M to return.....etc. etc.

Why would Texas change LHN now? There is no "or else" anymore. Beebe stays, LHN stays (exactly as it is) and we stay and keep owning a conference that gets noticeably weaker by the year

[Serge Ibaka]

The red and blue sections are contradictory.

No they aren't.

If OU joins the SEC, I think that it will become more irrelevant. They already enjoy a lot of media-saturation, they could get lost in the shuffle of all of the other awesome SEC games each Saturday.

Regardless, the quality of our football schedule would be great; football season would be more fun. I'm not scared, though OU would certainly lose more games--it's just a given.

[sooner KB]

What's the hurry, OU is a hot commodity and why act like we have to respond to any first overtures, I think OU has many options...

What are some of those options?

[Soonerus]

Hey! If you can't contribute to this whiney, hand-wringing thread in a more meaningful way you need to just leave! :tongue:

True, it is a pretty high level discussion ...

[AlboSooner]

The existence of the Big 12 aids only those who sought it to be destroyed. Join the SEC if you can

[Soonerus]

The existence of the Big 12 aids only those who sought it to be destroyed. Join the SEC if you can

Please no...

[StatesEye]

Why would Texas change LHN now? There is no "or else" anymore. Beebe stays, LHN stays (exactly as it is) and we stay and keep owning a conference that gets noticeably weaker by the year

We don't know that for sure. Texas could have folded on the OU demands earlier today. We may hear more tomorrow. Texas was faced with reducing the LHN footprint one way or the other. They could do it in the Big 12 or the PAC 12. Perhaps they chose the Big 12 and OU said....."Okay we're cool with that....as long as Beebee is gone, too."

Who really knows.

[SoonerLaw09]

Well...did we kill the board right there?

Heh. Mebbe it's time to stop then. :)

[SOONER44EVER]

Just saw this on twitter:

ChuckCarltonDMN Chuck Carlton
by bbjsports
RT @AaronDickens: Our BYU site is reporting tonight BYU is "highly likely" to join Big 12 if stability is assured. bit.ly/roFXkr (F)

[colleyvillesooner]

We're not going to the SEC. Period.

OU and Texas are meeting soon to agree to stay in Big 12 fro 5 years, per source. All this for ****ing nothing. If there is no LHN reduction or equal revenue sharing, we got hosed.

Seeing the same 3 -4 names over and over for expansion - WVU, TCU, Louisville and BYU. I'm fine with that.

[SoonerMom2]

We don't know that for sure. Texas could have folded on the OU demands earlier today. We may hear more tomorrow. Texas was faced with reducing the LHN footprint one way or the other. They could do it in the Big 12 or the PAC 12. Perhaps they chose the Big 12 and OU said....."Okay we're cool with that....as long as Beebee is gone, too."

Who really knows.

That wouldn't shock me at all if UT gave in to some demands. Earlier it was reported that UT was willing to cut some money loose to get OU to stay. Who knows where this is going but I would bet that Beebe is going to be joining the unemployment line in the near future.

[SoonerMom2]

Why did the PAC 12 vote tonight when they were supposed to vote on Thursday night? That makes no sense to move it up. There is more at play here than we have any idea -- are we going to become a real conference and be run the right way with Beebe gone? He has been as much of the problem as anything including letting our officials get out of hand the way they assign the two crews from Austin. Time to get a real professional in there.

[The Ghost of Mex]

We don't know that for sure. Texas could have folded on the OU demands earlier today. We may hear more tomorrow. Texas was faced with reducing the LHN footprint one way or the other. They could do it in the Big 12 or the PAC 12. Perhaps they chose the Big 12 and OU said....."Okay we're cool with that....as long as Beebee is gone, too."

...and perhaps Boren said no to PAC on this news and gave Scott the ok to make his anouncement to save face.

[sooner KB]

Seeing the same 3 -4 names over and over for expansion - WVU, TCU, Louisville and BYU. I'm fine with that.

I would be ok with that. I don't see why conference quality is an end-all for so many people when OU will still have the chance to play in a BCS bowl, or national championship game if we go undefeated. Who cares if SEC fans make fun of our conference, if we can play them in a championship game and beat them?

[sooner KB]

Why did the PAC 12 vote tonight when they were supposed to vote on Thursday night?

According to some, they didn't vote. They say Scott pulled the plug on his own.

[AlboSooner]

That wouldn't shock me at all if UT gave in to some demands. Earlier it was reported that UT was willing to cut some money loose to get OU to stay. Who knows where this is going but I would bet that Beebe is going to be joining the unemployment line in the near future.

It is because Texas didn't fold that the Pac said no. Texas wants to keep LHN to itself. Texas doesn't care of it's BIG 12 or Pac, they want LHN. OU in the BIG 12 gives Texas LHN and legitimacy. They know their strength and play it well. OU can't win a war of numbers and TV sets, and neither could AM. I can see why AM left.

It had nothing to do with on the field competition as AM had been beating Texas lately is just every sport.

[AlboSooner]

Why did the PAC 12 vote tonight when they were supposed to vote on Thursday night? That makes no sense to move it up. There is more at play here than we have any idea -- are we going to become a real conference and be run the right way with Beebe gone? He has been as much of the problem as anything including letting our officials get out of hand the way they assign the two crews from Austin. Time to get a real professional in there.
I don't get the Boren fixation with Beebe. If OU can't stand up to Texas, how can Beebe?

[SoonerMom2]

Thanks! That makes more sense that they didn't vote. I detest the media for running with stories without facts.

I just went back and read the comments from today's Oklahoman article and frankly it is all there -- looks like they may have gotten some concessions out of UT on the LHN to scale it back and Beebe is gone which seems to be what was required. Are we on the way to getting a conference network after this? I am wondering since UT had to pretty well scrape the LHN to go to the PAC 12 if they decided it was easier to stay in the Big 12 and make the changes?

[JiminyChristmas]

Seeing the same 3 -4 names over and over for expansion - WVU, TCU, Louisville and BYU. I'm fine with that.

I would be ok with that. I don't see why conference quality is an end-all for so many people when OU will still have the chance to play in a BCS bowl, or national championship game if we go undefeated. Who cares if SEC fans make fun of our conference, if we can play them in a championship game and beat them?

In the BCS world, the weak conference will screw us at some point. Not if, but when. Auburn would have been in ahead of us in 2004 if we had played the watered down version of the Big XII. Thats the problem with staying in my opinion.

[SoonerMom2]

They blame Beebe for not listening to complaints of NE and A&M. He would basically flip them off and started siding with UT on everything. If the PAC 12 did not vote tonight as someone just posted on here then we had to get some concessions out of UT to pull the plug on the PAC 12. When you read the comments from earlier today what it would take to make the Big 12 stable, it starts to make a little sense but we don't come close to having all the facts.

Beginning to wonder if in the end even UT decided it was better to keep a conference in the center of the Country. 2+2 do not equal 4 right now. With Boren meeting with the TX President, we should know more but I was Beebe, I would be cleaning out my desk.

[SoonerMom2]

Out of conference schedule being tough is the way around the conference. If you look at the Top 25 right now the Big 12 is right there and why some other conferences couldn't figure out why everyone wanted out.

[soonerboomer93]

Didn't SEC pull the same move with A&M, it's a political one where the won't really do anything until OU announces it is leaving the Big 12.

[SoonerMom2]

TCU should have been in the Big 12 from the start IMHO!

[Blue]

As the World Turns...These are the days of Our Lives...blah blah. Let me know when they get this worked out.

Rampant speculation for days and weeks and nobody knows what the hell they are talking about.

[SOONER44EVER]

The big 12 has the best record of any conference right now with only 2 total losses. We have 3 teams in the top 10 and 5 teams in the top 25. Not too shabby!

[Sooner Cal]

The drama isn't over.
Boren is too experienced to get played.
Scott is too successful to stay in a job where he can't reach his goals.
The doormats need, no require, the extra money OU would bring. Why do you think Ball State is willing to play us in Norman. They aren't afraid to play us.
The SEC commissioner said the same thing before A&M applied. Then they were accepted albeit conditionally. Like that the same will happen here. That move was to protect the SEC from a tampering claim. It made it clear that A&M sought them out. That makes sense.
There is no way we can create a Big 12 conference that is as good as the one we had two years ago. You will care when the perception is that the conference is Oklahoma and the 11 hicks from the sticks.
The PAC doesn't want to be perceived by UT as a lever against them. This is a battle between OU and Texas, not OU and the PAC vs Texas.
Does anyone wonder why Boren does the talking for OU while it's the AD Dodds speaking for Texas. That's because OU knows what it wants to do and UT doesn't. Dodds can be overruled by the UT President if they choose to reverse course.

This is no guarantee that OU and UT end up in the PAC, but I suspect that it is highly likely.

[soonergirlNeugene]

lol srsly I think I'm done caring about realignment. Just going to enjoy the season, come what may.

[JiminyChristmas]

I don't see Texass conceding anything on the LHN now. Why would they? They know we are stuck. If the roles were reversed, we would be saying "heck no, we are keeping it the way we want it".

[AlboSooner]

We all were led to believe that OU had an offer without Texas. We were led to believe that OU would join Pac regardless of what Texas did. The latest development shows that without Texas there is no invite for OU, and Texas is in no hurry to join Pac as Big 12 gives them most money and control.
ESPN article said Scott didn't even ask for a vote since Texas would not bulge in its LHN position.

[AlboSooner]

I don't see Texass conceding anything on the LHN now. Why would they? They know we are stuck. If the roles were reversed, we would be saying "heck no, we are keeping it the way we want it".
Yup, I wish we had the SEC card to play. I don't know why OU shut that card down. Why not keep it and use it as leverage. OU to SEC would hurt Texas.

[boomersooner28]

WHAT IN THE F IS GOING ON!?!? I AM SO SICK OF THIS REALIGNMENT BULL****!!! :mad:

[SoonerMom2]

I think UT already has made concessions on the LHN and that is why the comments we saw today. On one of their message boards they threw ESPN under the bus blaming them with all the problems with the LHN which I thought was an odd story. Now I am not so sure it was not a CYA for their fans when they give in on some things.

[USC Trojan]

LOL...what a cluster****. PAC12 Presidents didn't want to see their schools get ****-canned by the Sooners year in and year out.


Not exactly. OU should have came when they were invited...

[colleyvillesooner]

Now being reported that other schools want Beebe gone as well. Good 1st step...

[Serge Ibaka]

I am glad that, no matter what, * will definitely come out looking like the tools that they are.

It will be a pleasure to beat them by 50 next month.

[okie52]

Not exactly. OU should have came when they were invited...

You are right....and our prez should have kept his mouth shut.

[AlboSooner]

Now being reported that other schools want Beebe gone as well. Good 1st step...

Texas would sacrifice ten Beebe's to keep LHN, OU and Big 12 together. Beebe being fired doesn't help nor hurt OU one bit. It's a non-issue for the most part.

If SEC still wants us, we should consider. SEC wanted OU just for OU, and not because it is Texas' rival.

[USC Trojan]

You are right....and our prez should have kept his mouth shut.

Exactly....this is a direct result of the OU Prez saying "we're finished with the Big 12, we want in the Pac 12" to Scott...then turning around the next day saying "well we will stay if this and that changes.." The Pac 12, pretty much said lets put an end to this ****ery right now.

[the-rover]

Soonerfans........you guys sound like a bunch of aTm aggies when the SEC said the same thing, and now look where they are.

Everyone is posturing. This is a very fluid situation.

Have a little faith in the men who know what's really happening, not in a bunch of blog posters.

[Serge Ibaka]

Exactly....this is a direct result of the OU Prez saying "we're finished with the Big 12, we want in the Pac 12" to Scott...then turning around the next day saying "well we will stay if this and that changes.." The Pac 12, pretty much said lets put an end to this ****ery right now.

Your team sucks.

[En_Fuego]

:cry:Hook em

:pop:

[BASSooner]

Soonerfans........you guys sound like a bunch of aTm aggies when the SEC said the same thing, and now look where they are.

Everyone is posturing. This is a very fluid situation.

Have a little faith in the men who know what's really happening, not in a bunch of blog posters.
^this

[SoonerMom2]

@johnehoover
OrangeBloods reporting Big 12 schools tell Beebe they want new leadership. Step 2 toward Big 12's 2nd resurrection in 2 years. #Sooners

There is a lot more out there we do not know about and at least they made the first step to dumb Beebe!

[EatLeadCommie]

Is it just me, or did this look like a done deal until TEXAS finally said ok, no ACC, we'll go with OU to the Pac12. I smell a Texas rat, yet again.

[SoonerMom2]

Word out of the PAC 12 was they couldn't make a 14-team league work and Scott knew after talking to UT on the weekend they had no desire to go to the PAC 12 and cooperate.

[EatLeadCommie]

Word out of the PAC 12 was they couldn't make a 14-team league work and Scott knew after talking to UT on the weekend they had no desire to go to the PAC 12 and cooperate.
How does a 14 team league not work? I guess maybe they'd have to take one of the Pac 8 teams and stuff them into the other division? They should say to the odd team out that they'll expand to 16 within 3 years and move them back into the original Pac 8 division.

[okie52]

Exactly....this is a direct result of the OU Prez saying "we're finished with the Big 12, we want in the Pac 12" to Scott...then turning around the next day saying "well we will stay if this and that changes.." The Pac 12, pretty much said lets put an end to this ****ery right now.

I have no idea of what went on behind the scenes but OU has egg on it's face for sure.
Good luck to you guys anyhow.

[EatLeadCommie]

well wait...yeah, it really wouldn't work because you'd have to take Cal away from Stanford, USC away from UCLA, Oregon away from Oregon St, or Washington away from Wazoo. And I guess an 8 and 6 team division isn't feasible?

[EatLeadCommie]

I say grab KU and Mizzou and try again...or KU and KSU.

[SoonerMom2]

Their schools didn't want to not play the west coast schools so no one wanted to join the OK schools. Actually I am not sure that they really wanted OU and TX in the conference. Stanford couldn't beat us in the Sun Bowl -- their quarterback was hurt but they had the runner-up for the Heisman and Sam wasn't playing along with 27 other Sooners who were hurt. Did the 'doormats' as the west coast media calls them want OU and TX in the PAC 12 to win championships especially OU in football and UT in basketball? Love the things to do on the west coast but always thought when we lived there their football was not rough and tumble like we saw Saturday night! Cannot stand the Stanford band and maybe in the end it was a wake-up call. Who knows what happened but the best way for us to make the Big 12 work is keep on winning and get #8 after Beebe is fired which sounds like has already happened.

[USC Trojan]

Your team sucks.


55-19.

[USC Trojan]

I have no idea of what went on behind the scenes but OU has egg on it's face for sure.
Good luck to you guys anyhow.

Thank you. Good luck to your Sooners as well.

[PDXsooner]

55-19.

7 year old smack? Funny.

[the-rover]

55-19.

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't there was an issue of forfeiture or cheating or something? Maybe you can refresh our memories on that.

[Ground_Attack]

55-19.

none of the guys that played in that game are on either team. He didn't say "your team suckED".

[PLaw]

Scott is begging us one year and now acting like Utah and the Buffs filled their desires...something is wrong with this picture...

The life lesson here is to choose your friends carefully. OU hitched the Schooner to Bevo last year and it's coming home to roost. PAC made it clear they are not interested in OU without * and they are not interested in * greed or their TLN.

Choose your alliances carefully friends.

Time to turn the page on this mess for 12 more months.

Boomer

[Sooner in Tampa]

@JimVertuno Jim Vertuno
http://twitter.com/#!/JimVertuno

Big 12 source tells AP #Texas and OU officials to meet in next few days to negotiate deal that keeps both in league five years.

We need to seperate ourselves from * they are a ****ing cancer

[Vegas Sooner]

Half of this reported junk is all legal crap.

Nobody knows what is going on. This whole thing will most likely kill the LHN and their 32 subscribers.

[prrriiide]

Will someone - ANYONE - please turn the 40 acres into a smoking black crater? PLEASE??

[Vegas Sooner]

I will be so relieved when the conference realignment is over with.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTjq25oag0g0WKh2bQ7an2OttTfaMX8M-88DzPqOa6LrsBy_ki4NzA6XAlTWw

[FtwTxSooner]

Boren must have only found this out minutes before the press release. There is absolutely no way he would have postured like that without any leverage whatsoever. There is no reason for Texas to concede anything with respect to LHN now.

A&M didn't respond to the SEC's initial statement. Boren in his statement said the university has decided not to apply this year.

This is an unmitigated disaster.

[LASooner]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpfe0mBWzy1qjgdl1.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lp9pr3HpoK1qapg0h.gifhttp://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhg9bf9XK21qexe2j.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq3bthcQUN1r0ftodo1_250.gif

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo6k5t5Gfh1qmga68o1_400.gif

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh5i99zUis1qzw1g3o1_500.gif

[USC Trojan]

none of the guys that played in that game are on either team. He didn't say "your team suckED".


Well this team, sanctions and all, is still 3-0. Not sure how that means we are sucking.

[USC Trojan]

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't there was an issue of forfeiture or cheating or something? Maybe you can refresh our memories on that.

Ah you are talking about Mr Reggie Bush...the guy who scored no TDs and was a non factor in that game.


Listen all crap talk aside, we know what happened on the field. If the shoe was on the other foot, I dare not call OU cheaters. That was a plain old beating. Reggie could have stayed home and the score would have been that same. But that was then, and this is now. I have no doubt that if USC and OU were to play today, the Sooners would return the favor.

[sooneredaco]

Hopefully it will get David Boren to give the SEC a call otherwise he has just lost all of his leverage to get Texas to reform the Big 12.

Ok, I'm that guy....! We are Oklahoma. We don't lose leverage, we make it it. I don't give 2 flying squirts of **** what anybody else thinks

[salth2o]

Well this team, sanctions and all, is still 3-0. Not sure how that means we are sucking.

You suck because you are suc. :rolleyes:

[basel90]

Why would Boren say what he did without guarantees?? I hope he has plan B, i know he is a respected tactician .
I sensed Joe C remaining quite on this as am sure he knew there was no sure deal. I hope Boren did not open his Yap and posture for nothing as this is OU we are talking about ..

[thecrimsoncrusader]

I wonder how much texas payed the pac-12 for them not to expand so texas could keep the big 12 together.

Probably more than the amount that Texas paid Beebe to ensure every team in the Big 12 had to play at least two teams on the road that they already faced on the road the previous season while Texas is the only Big 12 team that doesn't have to make a repeat road trip against the same team. Funny how that worked. I'm sure it is just coincidence! *cough*

[SoonerinSouthlake]

I think it's an ESPN conspiracy! You know...since they hate us and all. :beguiled:


I think people go a little overboard when they say they always talk badly about us, or barely show highlights of us.


But do thing there is ANYTHING that might give ESPN incentive to help kill OU's move to the Pac? Hello LHN

[Boomer Mooner]

All of the " my hairs on fire" routines floor me, trust me OU will end up in a great situation.
You should have watched the FSU game thread. Many of the same people whining how we were done all through the game. Lame.

[Vegas Sooner]

ESPN Sucks. Hitler of Sports.
Listen to Dan Patrick, Trev Alberts, and Bruce Feldman. They are willing to tell the truth.

[King Barry's Back]

Wonder if this will back off the SEC on MO?

That's an interesting question. But I can't see why any conference, hungry for expansion, would back off of any prospective members. So why would the SEC drop MIZZOU? The only answer I can find is that maybe the SEC thinks it could get MO cheaply if they were fleaing a sinking Big 12, but would have to pay out if they are jumping from a going concern?

But that seems like chump change compared to the TV money being batted around, so who knows?

[King Barry's Back]

Word on the twitters is that the vote didn't take place, that Scott pulled the plug on his own. I've seen this from someone at the Austin paper and someone from the NYT. Who knows for sure.

Here's my take. OU wanted to go, and wanted to take OSU with us. PAC12 said "Good to go as long as Texas comes with you, too."

All the song and dance about TX saying "Oklahoma is not committed to the Big 12 so we are looking at the ACC" was cover dressing. TX wanted some leverage with the PAC12, and OU didn't want to look like little sister to TX - which is how we kind of looked last year.

So, the key to the whole deal working was TX and the PAC12 agreeing on the LHN.

I believe that the PAC12 wouldn't budge much for the Horn's TV proposals - a couple of which have emerged in recent days - and TX walked to preserve their beloved network.

Which means if we were really going to the PAC12 to dilute the power of LHN, we have now doubly screwed ourselves.

[trey]

i don't understand why boren opened his mouth a few friday's ago about not being a wallflower in all of this....what was the point? he should have kept his mouth shut.

[StatesEye]

Look, I don't know anymore than anyone else. I can only guess (educated) about how and why things are going down the way they are. I'd like to refer everyone to Andy Staples article from CNNSI.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/09/21/pac.12.realignment/index.html?sct=cf_t11_a1

He has a "source" he does not tell us what kind of source he is using (PAC-12 conference bigwig?, PAC-12 conference university ath director?, university pres?). He just says it is a source. Heck....it could be a source inside his own head. Later Mr. Staples tells us the source said "...taking only Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would have created another complicated set of issues, leading Pac-12 leaders to conclude that staying at 12 was the best move for the conference." Well....what are those so-called "issues"? That's total BS pulled from someones....well, ya know.

From where I sit...and this is speculation just like Mr. Staples' source....Texas conceded to OU's and other Big 12 members' demands. What those concession are exactly we will have to wait and see. But apparently they were sufficient to keep OU in the Big 12 for 5 more years. The PAC-12 did not vote on the issue because OU and Texas said no thanks to the PAC-12....not the other way around. There is silence on the Big 12 side to allow the PAC-12 a graceful exit. Furthermore, Mizzou has said no to the SEC because of this new agreement in the Big 12. They would rather stay with us as well. Hence, the SEC now saying they never offered Mizzou.

OU is not "stuck" with Texas. OU got exactly what it wanted. A stable Big 12 with prospects for expansion. Beebe will also be looking for a new job. This is how I see it (speculation, as it is)....and there is currently no credible "source" that contradicts this.

[HToady]

I think OU is still in control even without the PAC-12 exit leverage.

If OU gets it's way about Beebe, then the RIGHT BIG-12 leader can make the other things happen.

Stand your ground. Coaches, players, and fans want regional rivalries.

[jkjsooner]

OU to the SEC is dead. That ship sailed a long time ago.

As for telling Texas no, how can we do that now? We have no negotiating power whatsoever. Texas can just say FU, what are you gonna do about it? We have absolutely no recourse.

What negotiating power does Texas have? No other conference will take them with their demands.

[3rdgensooner]

Look, I don't know anymore than anyone else. I can only guess (educated) about how and why things are going down the way they are. I'd like to refer everyone to Andy Staples article from CNNSI.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/09/21/pac.12.realignment/index.html?sct=cf_t11_a1

He has a "source" he does not tell us what kind of source he is using (PAC-12 conference bigwig?, PAC-12 conference university ath director?, university pres?). He just says it is a source. Heck....it could be a source inside his own head. Later Mr. Staples tells us the source said "...taking only Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would have created another complicated set of issues, leading Pac-12 leaders to conclude that staying at 12 was the best move for the conference." Well....what are those so-called "issues"? That's total BS pulled from someones....well, ya know.

From where I sit...and this is speculation just like Mr. Staples' source....Texas conceded to OU's and other Big 12 members' demands. What those concession are exactly we will have to wait and see. But apparently they were sufficient to keep OU in the Big 12 for 5 more years. The PAC-12 did not vote on the issue because OU and Texas said no thanks to the PAC-12....not the other way around. There is silence on the Big 12 side to allow the PAC-12 a graceful exit. Furthermore, Mizzou has said no to the SEC because of this new agreement in the Big 12. They would rather stay with us as well. Hence, the SEC now saying they never offered Mizzou.

OU is not "stuck" with Texas. OU got exactly what it wanted. A stable Big 12 with prospects for expansion. Beebe will also be looking for a new job. This is how I see it (speculation, as it is)....and there is currently no credible "source" that contradicts this.Great post

[badger]

I've read all 11 pages and I must say, you guys were BUSY last night!

Chill out all. I often have to remind people to TRUST STOOPS during the football season, since he has led us back to glory and led us much awesomeness on the field, in recruiting and is a high character guy. Perhaps its time to remind you all to TRUST JOE C and TRUST BOREN. Aside from rising tuition and the Jeff Capel thing, have either of them done anything bad for athletics or academics and hasn't the university just exploded with new facilities, higher enrollment, greater national interest, etc?

So anyway, this is the type of meltdown thread I like giggling about when I see on other forums, and one that facepalm when I see with Sooners. Everything is going to turn out fine, guys.

[kevpks]

On the football side of things, this actually could work out great. The Big XII is our easiest path to a national championship every year. Our strong non-conference scheduling for the next five years is enough to offset the loss of Nebraska and A&M from our schedule. Texas can keep printing money all they want but if we kick their *** in October, it doesn't matter all that much.

[FtwTxSooner]

What negotiating power does Texas have? No other conference will take them with their demands.

Why does Texas need to negoiate they have everything they want. Now we are left with nothing with no place to go within reason.

[kevpks]

Why does Texas need to negoiate they have everything they want. Now we are left with nothing with no place to go within reason.

I would assume Texas wants stability like OU does. Concessions are needed to create that.

[Veritas]

On the football side of things, this actually could work out great. The Big XII is our easiest path to a national championship every year. Our strong non-conference scheduling for the next five years is enough to offset the loss of Nebraska and A&M from our schedule. Texas can keep printing money all they want but if we kick their *** in October, it doesn't matter all that much.
It could work out great, but it won't, because this isn't and never has been about what happens on the field: it's about a fully metastasized burnt orange cancer that need to be surgically removed. OU came close to expunging the disease but it turns on nobody wants the cancer either because they know cancer just won't stop being cancer, absorbing and controlling anything in touches.

[King Barry's Back]

I think OU is still in control even without the PAC-12 exit leverage.

If OU gets it's way about Beebe, then the RIGHT BIG-12 leader can make the other things happen.

Stand your ground. Coaches, players, and fans want regional rivalries.

Maybe you are right, but....

How does a change in personnel in the league office solve any problems. Beebee didn't blow TX because he enjoyed kneeling, he did it because TX is the mover and shaker in the conference. New flash: THEY STILL ARE.

Also, bear in mind that any decisions made by Beebee could have been overturned by votes of the conference members. I don't know Big XII by laws, so it might have required a supermajority, or it might have taken some time to overturn Beebee's decisions - but they could have been overturned.

Or the members could have voted to get rid of Beebee anyway, without all this drama.

No, changing conference commissioners may help, but it won't be decisive.

[King Barry's Back]

On the football side of things, this actually could work out great. The Big XII is our easiest path to a national championship every year. Our strong non-conference scheduling for the next five years is enough to offset the loss of Nebraska and A&M from our schedule. Texas can keep printing money all they want but if we kick their *** in October, it doesn't matter all that much.

True, but the problem with that argument is that the larger the financial disadvantage, the harder it is to beat them. They already beat us half the time we play. If the money edge widens even further to their favor, their competitive edge will grow.

[SoonerMom2]

From George Schroeder: Adding just the Oklahoma schools to get to Pac-14 was discussed by Scott and presidents. Logistics/geography outweighed financial benefits.

President of NCAA put pressure on the PAC 12 Presidents to slow everything down and also other conferences according to other sites. This may be the real reason is because the NCAA President decided to say stop it and PAC 12 complied.

[FtwTxSooner]

I'll try to put a positive spin on things for moving forward...

One way to change things would be for the Big 12 members to gang up on Texas like they did Nebraska when the league was formed. NU needed to admit partial and non qualifiers to compete, and that was rejected soundly in an 11-1 vote.

The conference needs to write Boren's list of demands up as league bylaws, and all members need to step up and vote on them. If Texas decides to bolt at that point, so be it.

[PrideMom]

It made NO sense in not having a conference in the middle of the USA. The Big XII was a very STRONG conference. The football has always been good, and the minor sports -basketball (Sorry, Kansas, but yes basketball is minor), baseball, softball, etc. would have suffered greatly if the Big XII was no more.

Travel is easy, and the fans can get to the away games. Last night I was watching the Texas Rangers game in Oakland that started at 9:00 PM, and thought that would be an what OU would be looking at in the future....UGH!!!

[SoonerMarkVA]

By doing what we did last year, we have allowed ourselves to become Texas' bitch in perpetuity.

Nice jorb, OU administration.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. We should have struck while the iron was hot. It's possible last year the P-10 wouldn't have taken a contingent from the XII without ut. But I guess we'll never know. And at that time, it could have been 6 teams, not 5. If ut had balked, OU/OSU/TT/KU/MU/CU all could have gone, leaving Utah where it belongs and ut blowing in the wind.

CU looked kind of dumb when everything collapsed last year, but they're laughing now.

[SoonerMom2]

johnehooverJohn E. Hoover

Boren may have had 3 clear objectives: 1, stay in B12. 2, remove Beebe. 3, alter B12 balance of power. Could get all 3.

[MI Sooner]

We're not going to the SEC. Period.

OU and Texas are meeting soon to agree to stay in Big 12 fro 5 years, per source. All this for ****ing nothing. If there is no LHN reduction or equal revenue sharing, we got hosed.

Seeing the same 3 -4 names over and over for expansion - WVU, TCU, Louisville and BYU. I'm fine with that.

Sorry but I keep hearing that we need equal revenue sharing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't OU get more than 1/10 of the conference's TV pie? If so, can someone explain to me why OU would demand LESS money? Also, OU shouldn't have a problem with TLN, since we wanted our own network, and still might get one (or rather, might get better distribution for our existing network).

If Missouri and A&M leave, it's my understanding that as long as we add two more teams, the current TV contracts are still valid. We'd also retain our BCS auto-bid, right? So who cares if the teams we add are marginally weaker than A&M or Missouri?

We need to fight for UNEVEN revenue sharing, add BYU or whomever else is willing to join, schedule good OOC games, and be content that our TV contracts will likely bring in less per team than some other conferences. The problem is that the Big XII is saddled with Baylor, TTU, OkSt, KSU, and (maybe) ISU, who add virtually nothing to the TV pie, as they either have small fan bases, redundant within the conference, or both.

So the Big XII gets less TV money per team than other conferences, but OU gets it's fair (larger) share of that. Once we swallow our pride, accept that Texas's fair share is even larger than ours, and get ride of the other teams with 1) penis envy, and 2) other options, we'll be set in a stable conference where the big dogs (OU and TX) are happy, and the other schools have no choice but to like it.

[SoonerMom2]

Maybe the PAC 12 watched our game with FSU and decided they wanted no part of OU and our defense especially after UCLA lost to UT. :)

Agree with Pride Mom that in the end the middle of the country does need its own conference and maybe that is also what the President of the NCAA saw when he starting getting the word out to slow down the Super Conferences.

[Mac94]

The problem is one of stability still .... reading this I read about some 5 year deal. Five years? That's stability? That's called delaying the inevitable ... not stability. Mizzou has wanted out ... heck ... they started this almost two yrs ago ... they just haven't found anyone that will take them yet. Colorado and Nebraska are gone and my Ags are gone after this year. You all have wanted out but are in for now because the Pac-12 is taking things slow. The Big-12(-3) surviving for now is just a partnership of conveniece until better options open up at a later date. That is not stability.

[cccasooner2]

ToAz-qBUH1Y&feature

[tulsaoilerfan]

Didn't SEC pull the same move with A&M, it's a political one where the won't really do anything until OU announces it is leaving the Big 12.

That's what i'm thinking; for legal reasons also the Pac 12 can't come out and say "Yes we want OU, OSU, Texas, and Tech to come join our league until they all leave the big 12

[FtwTxSooner]

That's what i'm thinking; for legal reasons also the Pac 12 can't come out and say "Yes we want OU, OSU, Texas, and Tech to come join our league until they all leave the big 12

Though, the A&M president did not issue a press release saying we're staying in the Big 12 and will not apply for the SEC this year after the SEC's vote.

[jkjsooner]

On the football side of things, this actually could work out great. The Big XII is our easiest path to a national championship every year.

Not to change the subject but not only is this wimpy talk but it's also why we need a playoff system. There should be no "scheduling a national championship" talk.

[Bccajun]

Boren stated a few weeks ago he was being courted by a couple of conferences. Could he have already know the PAC12 was not an option. Still wanting out of the B12 and after seeing all that took place with A&M and the SEC never mentioned the SEC so not to get the same treatment from them A&M got even though the SEC wanted A&M. Extending an invitation to Missouri and turning down WVU leaving the door open for both OU and State. If not the SEC what was the other conference. Big East and ACC are not where I think OU wants to be.

If OU wants Texas to play fair and if Texas board of regents said LHN adjustment not an option. If that is the case OU will not stay from last Boren statement.

So it must be the SEC option.

[okiedokie]

Sorry but I keep hearing that we need equal revenue sharing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't OU get more than 1/10 of the conference's TV pie? If so, can someone explain to me why OU would demand LESS money? Also, OU shouldn't have a problem with TLN, since we wanted our own network, and still might get one (or rather, might get better distribution for our existing network).

If Missouri and A&M leave, it's my understanding that as long as we add two more teams, the current TV contracts are still valid. We'd also retain our BCS auto-bid, right? So who cares if the teams we add are marginally weaker than A&M or Missouri?

We need to fight for UNEVEN revenue sharing, add BYU or whomever else is willing to join, schedule good OOC games, and be content that our TV contracts will likely bring in less per team than some other conferences. The problem is that the Big XII is saddled with Baylor, TTU, OkSt, KSU, and (maybe) ISU, who add virtually nothing to the TV pie, as they either have small fan bases, redundant within the conference, or both.

So the Big XII gets less TV money per team than other conferences, but OU gets it's fair (larger) share of that. Once we swallow our pride, accept that Texas's fair share is even larger than ours, and get ride of the other teams with 1) penis envy, and 2) other options, we'll be set in a stable conference where the big dogs (OU and TX) are happy, and the other schools have no choice but to like it.


sorry, but I want competitive games and not just a cake walk thru the season. Adding two lesser teams will make it even worse. Don't you think you get more excited every Sat when you know a BIG game is about to play out? I know I do.

[ric311]

It could work out great, but it won't, because this isn't and never has been about what happens on the field: it's about a fully metastasized burnt orange cancer that need to be surgically removed. OU came close to expunging the disease but it turns on nobody wants the cancer either because they know cancer just won't stop being cancer, absorbing and controlling anything in touches.

After reading this entire thread - this is by far the most accurate post here. This was never about on-field results. It was never about OU. It was all UT. The Pac wants absolutely nothing to do with UT. Nothing. Contrary to what the whorns might tell you, the Pac (and the Pac Presidents, in particular) saw the cancer that is UT and decided to pass.

[Sooner98]

Can someone explain to me why Texas should make ANY concessions now, either on the LHN, or any other issue? Since we are apparently stuck right where we are with no other options, what kind of leverage do we have to tell them what to do at all? We will continue to be one of their loyal servants until the B1G comes calling for them and Notre Dame and they leave us in the dust. Then our conference will be even more Mountain West-like than it is now.

I guess since we are stuck in a pitiful conference, we'd better go out and schedule 2 or 3 Ohio States or Alabamas every year in the non-conference to make our schedule look halfway decent for the voters. Otherwise we stand to get left out of the BCSCG if there are three or more undefeateds.

[jkjsooner]

It made NO sense in not having a conference in the middle of the USA. The Big XII was a very STRONG conference.


I bolded the key word. We are no longer a strong conference. The conference is becoming more of a joke every year.

The thing I worry about is that the SEC now has inroads into Texas. When a kid is deciding on OU or A&M, dontcha think he's going to give A&M an much hardler look now than he did in the past? Our conference is getting weaker by the year and at some point that will hurt recruiting.

[Mac94]

After reading this entire thread - this is by far the most accurate post here. This was never about on-field results. It was never about OU. It was all UT. The Pac wants absolutely nothing to do with UT. Nothing. Contrary to what the whorns might tell you, the Pac (and the Pac Presidents, in particular) saw the cancer that is UT and decided to pass.

And that's why A&M will be in the SEC next year ... all the instability that Texas has helped create.

[achiro]

Can someone explain to me why Texas should make ANY concessions now, either on the LHN, or any other issue? Since we are apparently stuck right where we are with no other options, what kind of leverage do we have to tell them what to do at all? We will continue to be one of their loyal servants until the B1G comes calling for them and Notre Dame and they leave us in the dust. Then our conference will be even more Mountain West-like than it is now.

I guess since we are stuck in a pitiful conference, we'd better go out and schedule 2 or 3 Ohio States or Alabamas every year in the non-conference to make our schedule look halfway decent for the voters. Otherwise we stand to get left out of the BCSCG if there are three or more undefeateds.
I keep hearing some of you say that we have no leverage. The leverage started a couple of weeks ago when Stoops said something about not really needing the TX game. The PAC said no because of TX(the LHN), not OU. OU can still threaten to leave TX in the ACC dust.
I for one would really like to see the BIG12 make it. I think there are some decent teams that could be picked up. Teams that have a decent base to start with and will only get stronger with a BIG12 resume. Think about WV and the recruiting they could do out East with a Big12 name.

[Soonerjeepman]

I bolded the key word. We are no longer a strong conference. The conference is becoming more of a joke every year.

The thing I worry about is that the SEC now has inroads into Texas. When a kid is deciding on OU or A&M, dontcha think he's going to give A&M an much hardler look now than he did in the past?

no, a/m will get their butt handed to them every yr in the SEC...I'd be willing to bet they don't go much over .500 most seasons over the next 5yrs...after that, who knows....play for OU winning 10-12 games a yr, consistently in the MNC picture of a/m playing in a tough conf and not being in the top 10...I'd think OU would win that battle every year.

[jkjsooner]

Can someone explain to me why Texas should make ANY concessions now, either on the LHN, or any other issue? Since we are apparently stuck right where we are with no other options, what kind of leverage do we have to tell them what to do at all?

We definitely don't have the leverage we had or thought we had. However, I ask again, what kind of leverage does Texas have? They always acted as if they could go anywhere and maintain their special benefits. They found out that that was not true.

The rest of the conference may not have the leverage to request that everything be equal because Texas does have better options if they're willing to accept equal revenue sharing.

It really looks to me like OU and Texas both lost some leverage here.


One thing I think we have going for us is that Texas can't leave without opening up opportunities for us as well. From our perspective (not necessarily the rest of the conference members) we don't have to worry about them leaving and that reduces Texas's bargaining power a little. If Texas goes to the PAC I think we will be invited as well. Same with the SEC (though Texas would never go that route). The only iffy is if Texas goes to the Big 10. We wouldn't get an invite but that would put pressure on the SEC/PAC to expand. If the PAC feels pressured to expand there really isn't any options comparable to us (assuming Texas is off the table).

[Mac94]

We definitely don't have the leverage we had or thought we had. However, I ask again, what kind of leverage does Texas have? They always acted as if they could go anywhere and maintain their special benefits. They found out that that was not true.

The leverage Texas has right now is the status quo ... the conference already has unequal revenue sharing ... the LHN already exists, etc. Oklahoma is trying to press change with reduced leverage ... if OU makes demands ... Texas say ... no, what are you gonna do about it? Since the rules are already in place ... it's harder to change them. Texas is in position of not having to do anything at this point and they maintain what they want.

[jkjsooner]

Sorry but I keep hearing that we need equal revenue sharing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't OU get more than 1/10 of the conference's TV pie? If so, can someone explain to me why OU would demand LESS money?

Stability. How has the unequal revenue sharing gone for us the last couple of years? We've lost CU, NU, and A&M. That's not good.

Also, don't expect a great TV deal the next time the contract comes up. The instability + loss of market share will kill the Big 12.

[kevpks]

True, but the problem with that argument is that the larger the financial disadvantage, the harder it is to beat them. They already beat us half the time we play. If the money edge widens even further to their favor, their competitive edge will grow.

OU has plenty of options for keeping pace in revenue. The Big XII's voting members have the power to limit the disparity and they should use it. My point is that Texas has always had more money and we've seen the results. They are a top 10 program. We are a top 3 program, and arguably the top depending on your criteria.

[Sooner98]

The leverage Texas has right now is the status quo ... the conference already has unequal revenue sharing ... the LHN already exists, etc. Oklahoma is trying to press change with reduced leverage ... if OU makes demands ... Texas say ... no, what are you gonna do about it? Since the rules are already in place ... it's harder to change them. Texas is in position of not having to do anything at this point and they maintain what they want.

Exactly. The Oklahoman reported yesterday that 2 things had to happen: Beebe be fired (that's the easy part), and major revamping to the LHN has to occur. My question now is, why would Texas agree to changing anything? What can we do about it? It's like, "If you don't scale down and re-vamp the LHN, then we are leaving for the PAC...err....nevermind, carry on as you were."

[FtwTxSooner]

After reading this entire thread - this is by far the most accurate post here. This was never about on-field results. It was never about OU. It was all UT. The Pac wants absolutely nothing to do with UT. Nothing. Contrary to what the whorns might tell you, the Pac (and the Pac Presidents, in particular) saw the cancer that is UT and decided to pass.

Texas may have blew the 4 team deal, though the PAC didn't want us in a 2 team deal either.

[stoopified]

The Big 12 lives at least 1 more year!!! Yay!! :D ! Fixed

[SoonerMarkVA]

Ironic thing is, ut's money is what gives it the huge advantage in the non-revenue sports. It hasn't given them some impenetrable grip on national domination in football or basketball, but they do have that in other sports. Everyone focuses on the football, but the LHN isn't going to put them into the outer orbit.

On one hand, I think, "Who really cares about the other sports?" On the other hand, it burns me to see ut with a massive lead in overall championships because of it. That's what their greed has really bought them, but I suspect all the ut supporters do nothing but grumble that they haven't been able to topple OU in football and KU in basketball.

Anyway, if the concern is the impact on football (or basketball), then there's nothing to fear from LHN. If they could buy their way to the top, they'd already have done it.

[Sooner98]

http://m.yahoo.com/w/sports/home/experts/article?offset=0&urn=urn%3Anewsml%3Asports.yahoo%2Cyhoo%3A20050301% 3Ancaaf%2Carticle%2Cdw-wetzel_big_12_lives_to_play_092111%3A1&.ts=1316616207&.ysid=NeMes4jZ11ClrTElTQS75Y1G&.intl=US&.lang=en

[SoonerEmpire]

Now that we're back in the Big 8, I didn't think it was possible to hate Texas more. But I do.

Big 9. It's only the Big 8 if Missouri leaves, which, I doubt the SEC will want them now if the rest of the Big 12 doesn't break up. However, if by some strange happenstance they do still take Missouri... if we're going to be in the Big 8 again, does that mean we get to start running the wishbone again and revive the epic track meets? ;)

[soonerboomer93]

Stability. How has the unequal revenue sharing gone for us the last couple of years? We've lost CU, NU, and A&M. That's not good.

Also, don't expect a great TV deal the next time the contract comes up. The instability + loss of market share will kill the Big 12.

We haven't really lost any markets from the contraction. A&M cost nothing, we lost Denver but no one there cares about CU. What will kill is the LHN and that's what this fight is about. It's not a money thing, it's about ESPN using it's LHN to pully ****ty moves and texas turning a blind eye to it. It's not the money the network is bringing texas, it's the moves the network is making. Paying KU to get the UT Kansas game one the network (selling out fans who won't be able to see that game now). Showing HS highlights when they were banned from showing game. It's sketchy moves by ESPN that is causing this. This is about the schools and the conference being in control of the Big 12 and not letting EPSN take over.

[Dan Thompson]

What a FUBAR. Or maybe - FIRE, READY, AIM.

[jkjsooner]

The leverage Texas has right now is the status quo ... the conference already has unequal revenue sharing ... the LHN already exists, etc. Oklahoma is trying to press change with reduced leverage ... if OU makes demands ... Texas say ... no, what are you gonna do about it? Since the rules are already in place ... it's harder to change them. Texas is in position of not having to do anything at this point and they maintain what they want.

I agree with this. However, Texas can't assume that either us or Missouri will never have other options. Texas needs stability in the Big 12 for their own best interests.

Like I said, I don't think we have the leverage to demand 100% equal revenue sharing as Texas has other alternatives in that scenario but I think we do have some leverage to say, "You better extend some olive branches to the rest of the conference."

Whether we or Missouri have options to leave right now does not mean neither will in the near future. Obviously three Big 12 schools had those options and exercised them. That's a warning sign to Texas.

The fact that Texas doesn't have the sweetheart deals outside of the Big 12 means Texas needs the Big 12. (And, yes, the Big 12 needs Texas.) It's a dangerous path for Texas to assume that no other Big 12 school will have options outside of the Big 12.

[jkjsooner]

We haven't really lost any markets from the contraction. A&M cost nothing, we lost Denver but no one there cares about CU.

Tell that to the guys who make the contracts. Nobody in the NE cares about college football but that didn't stop the ACC from taking BC to increase their footprint in the northeast.

Picking up these pro media markets doesn't make sense to me at all but it appears to make a difference to the network executives and I can only assume they've done their research in these matters.

I don't get why conferences and networks care about Boston or NYC viewers who don't give a flip about CFB but they do.

To summarize, I agree with you 100% but admit that both of us must be wrong.

[Mac94]

My guess is Texas will play it this way .... agree to replace Beebe ... agree to equal tier 1 and 2 revenue sharing ... they'll give up a few mill (and so will OU in this case) ... but stand firm on the tier 3 / LHN