Snap Count?

[achiro]

Do we have a tell or what?

[meoveryouxinfinity]

xmillionnnnnnnn

[BillySimmons]

Hard not to have a tell when the crowd's that loud.

[delhalew]

Hard not to have a tell when the crowd's that loud.

This. Everything changes when the crowd is so loud that you have to give the play to every lineman individually. Snap count, tempo...different ballgame.

[Pricetag]

It sure looked like they were coming early several times last night, and they never got flagged.

[delhalew]

It sure looked like they were coming early several times last night, and they never got flagged.

Out. Of. Control.

[Keller Sooner]

They were offsides several times. I got to wondering if they were picking up something from one of our o-linemen that was tipping them to the snap count. Anyway it was a great great win in a very hostile and loud environment.

[The Ghost of Mex]

Something was very off. Their DE's were picking something up for sure.

[BigTip]

When it was so obvious to us, I found it strange that the TV boys never said a thing about it.

[BoulderSooner79]

They looked offsides mutliple times to me, but the ref is looking right down the line. I've often seen slow-motion replays like that and the defense is not offside, but it looks like it because they are guessing the snap count and shotgun snaps are slow compared to regular snaps.

IMO, the problem was continually trying to call the play as the play clock went under 5 seconds. LJ was running up and down the line shouting the signal and the RB was often following him just so he could hear. The guys on defense can watch that play clock going down too and clearly there is no snap count in that situation. The center looks backs, sets for a second and then snaps. Same thing everytime. We have seen this be an issue ever since we went no huddle. There has to be a way to handle this w/o radically changing the offense. My first reaction is to just call a play and run it and focus on execution and not try to call a play in response to the defensive alignment at the moment. That takes too much time.

[Curly Bill]

We do sometimes seem to outsmart ourselves rather than just lining up and running the play. We need to evolve from meerkats to some kinda animals that can communicate telepathically.

[BoulderSooner79]

We do sometimes seem to outsmart ourselves rather than just lining up and running the play. We need to evolve from meerkats to some kinda animals that can communicate telepathically.

Why do I ramble so much when you can say it so concisely? ;)

[madillsoonerfan5353]

I think FSU d line done a great job watching the ball instead of listen to the snap count. D Stephenson done just the opposite IMO. That 95 was a beast, agree that they seemed to be early some. But second game of the season on the road playing a top 5 team I'll take a 10 point win every weeek!

[Soonerfan88]

It's not hard to tell when you are snapping the ball when the play clock is at :01. Also, that German kid is very quick and could look like he jumped offsides even when he didn't.

I was really happy to see the team actually huddling at the goal line - even though it didn't help us score.

[mightysooner]

Their D-ends jumped across the line of scrimmage multiple times last night before the ball was snapped and never got called for it once. That's why they were getting so much pressure on Jones.

[rekamrettuB]

Jones/Habern had the same snap count/routine for most of the night. Jones would signal (wave hand), Habern raised head and snapped. The FSU DEs were going on Habern's head. I slo-mo'd a couple times where they got too early 'a jump and didn't get flagged. One time was the 3rd down throw to Broyles at 7:30 left in the game. That was a huge throw and Jones got hit hard. The play that followed that one may have overshadowed it a bit...TD to Stills.

[OUmillenium]

It sure looked like they were coming early several times last night, and they never got flagged.

No doubt, there were a couple of times I was thinking "free play" then there was not even a flag.

[BoulderSooner79]

If Habern could vary the timing of when he looks back vs. when he snaps the ball, it would seem we could get some free plays out of it.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I noticed this also and was thinking some of the same thoughts

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Their D-ends jumped across the line of scrimmage multiple times last night before the ball was snapped and never got called for it once. That's why they were getting so much pressure on Jones.

I think you need to go back and look at it again. I rewound 8 different plays where they got a good jump and on every single one of them they were moving with the ball.

[oumartin]

Bob gave Mark the snap count just to make things interesting.

[BoulderSooner79]

I think you need to go back and look at it again. I rewound 8 different plays where they got a good jump and on every single one of them they were moving with the ball.

That's what I suspected, although I didn't go back and look. I've just seen so many cases where it looks like offsides, but a slow motion replay shows it's just a good jump. The ref looking down the line rarely misses that call, although it does happen. One thing you can say for sure, when they get a jump like that, our O-line guys are at a big disadvantage. I hope we work on ways to discourage this.

[8timechamps]

I think the FSU defensive ends are just that good. Their focus is not on the snap count or even the signal (for Landy, the lowering of his hand so that Habern knows when it's coming), they are looking right at the ball, and are just fast to fire off.

[5noubus]

Im pretty sure they jumped off sides AtLEAST twice. There would be an fsu player in our backfield before landry even moved! I also thought I heard a wistle blow before the snap. It may have just been all that noise. But is sure sounded like one .
I guess if they would have called all those off sides and holding calls (the horse collar.the face masks etc),we might not have finished the game until oswho started theirs!

[Big D Sooner]

It was too loud to go with a normal snap count, we had to go with silent counts out of the shotgun. That is what the hand wave was. That leads to two things happening...
1. The Dline can get a great jump because, just like the center, they can see the signal for the silent count.
2. The Oline loses its advantage of knowing the snap count. They have to either look in at the ball or use a system such as holding hands to know when the ball is snapped.

The defense gets a better jump, the offense gets a slower jump. This explains alot of the pressure that Landry was getting last night.

[SoonerOX]

I agree that Habern's pre-snap routine was the issue. I assume that they will sort this out in the film room.

[hornswaggled]

Look at the play at 12:20 left in the first quarter (when the Noles "forced" us into a third down). The right outside linebacker, #48, is in a three point stance, looking in the direction of the ball. He comes up from his stance before the ball is moved. I looks like he anticipated the snap when Habern lifted his head.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Look at the play at 12:20 left in the first quarter (when the Noles "forced" us into a third down). The right outside linebacker, #48, is in a three point stance, looking in the direction of the ball. He comes up from his stance before the ball is moved. I looks like he anticipated the snap when Habern lifted his head.

Well there are actually 2 problems on that play.

1. Habern has a bad tendency to pull the ball back a 1/2 a yard when he snaps it. This pulls the LOS back along with it since the position of the ball indicates the "actual" LOS. This gives the ability for the DL to move up to 12 inches without being offsides.

2. Habern has a hitch in his snap to the shotgun. They are moving on the hitch, not when the ball moves (which is perfectly legal). The OL doesn't look like it moves until the ball starts going backwards.

[soonercoop1]

No but they definitely have a tell when its a running play....hurry up to the line-turn to the sidelines-freak out/audible and barely snap the ball before the clock runs out....

[hornswaggled]

Well there are actually 2 problems on that play.

1. Habern has a bad tendency to pull the ball back a 1/2 a yard when he snaps it. This pulls the LOS back along with it since the position of the ball indicates the "actual" LOS. This gives the ability for the DL to move up to 12 inches without being offsides.

2. Habern has a hitch in his snap to the shotgun. They are moving on the hitch, not when the ball moves (which is perfectly legal). The OL doesn't look like it moves until the ball starts going backwards.

I agree the defensive man was legally moving, and he had plenty of room to get going without crossing the line of scrimmage at the snap. I also see the hitch you are talking about. It looks like Habert hikes his butt then the ball.

So, Habert's hitch is his tell. Maybe the coaches already know this and are figuring ways to use it to our advantage. Josh was really good a drawing the defense offsides. This could be a subterfuge technique to accomplish that in the future:fat: