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View Full Version : The Pledge of Allegiance as an Offensive Weapon.



TUSooner
9/14/2011, 10:14 AM
Because I fear this will get ugly, I'm putting it in the political forum.

I've lately been seeing a bunch of people on facebook and emails, &c. touting the Pledge of Allegiance, especially the "under God" part, as a new way to offend "them," "they" being the vast hordes of liberal conspirators undermining our Nation.

Having been part of the generation that recited the Pledge daily at school for many years, it occurs to me that nobody seemed quite that enthusiastic about it back in the day. In fact, most kids didn't understand all of it any more than they understood the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner, which is to say not that much. Neither is fervent patriotism what I remember as an outstanding characteristic of my classmates. Most kids seem to have regarded saying the Pledge as just another thing you had to do at school.

But see how things change, now that the Pledge has been revived as an anti-liberal talisman! What this phenomenon really says to me -- again -- is that lots of people have a sadly shallow concept of patriotism, and worse, that their religion is a merely another political tool.

Yep. I guess you could say I'm cynical.

Pricetag
9/14/2011, 10:22 AM
I've seen a bunch of stuff like that from folks my parents' age on FB. I don't get how they think the Pledge isn't being recited today.

I know that there have been lawsuits about some folks not wanting to do it personally, but I missed the part where all schools stopped it. My oldest son's school still does it. They recite the Oklahoma pledge, as well.

yermom
9/14/2011, 10:41 AM
TU, you'll only have to deal with that until October or so when it's starts up as "Merry Christmas" instead ;)

TUSooner
9/14/2011, 10:46 AM
I've seen a bunch of stuff like that from folks my parents' age on FB. I don't get how they think the Pledge isn't being recited today.

I know that there have been lawsuits about some folks not wanting to do it personally, but I missed the part where all schools stopped it. My oldest son's school still does it. They recite the Oklahoma pledge, as well.

Since I am probably your parents' age, I'll say that the Pledgg has probably taken on that misty wonderfulness that attaches to many things in the past, even if inaccurately. :)

badger
9/14/2011, 10:50 AM
Meh, if the Pledge can be used as a weapon so can not reciting the Pledge?

Remember what a big stink was raised with a division three womens basketball player wouldn't face the flag during the national anthem before ball games? There are two words describing her status as a student-athlete that should make the story irrelevant (yes, "three" and "womens," and during football season, perhaps "basketball" also).

Big stinks are raised over a lot of patriotic, religious things, otherwise who gives a shiite if we say "brave" or "Sooners?" Or if the drunk guy next to you takes off his hat during the pledge/anthem?

Zzzzzzzz. I still remember Badger Girls State (yes, that's what they called it in Wisconsin) having us recite the pledge by stringing the phrase "one nation under God" altogether. No taking a breath between "nation" and "under." You wanna REALLY get people riley over the Pledge, just do that :D

TUSooner
9/14/2011, 10:51 AM
TU, you'll only have to deal with that until October or so when it's starts up as "Merry Christmas" instead ;)

Heh. Yep, that's always good: "Be sure to say 'Merry Christmas' because it's the same as saying 'F*** You' to a liberal." There no better way to show that you're celebrating the birth of the Prince of Love and Peace!

MR2-Sooner86
9/14/2011, 11:45 AM
Patriotism is good but it can become a cult. Personally, I never got the pledge of allegiance and now that I'm older, find it rather stupid. Why? Well why would I pledge my allegiance to a flag? If I'm pledging allegiance to anything it's the United States Constitution.

Our form of government can be dismantled yet they can still keep the flag. The flag is just that, a flag. Sure, you can say it "symbolizes" our Country and Constitution but in the end, it's just a flag. A flag doesn't guarantee us the freedoms we enjoy. Only the Constitution does that.

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2011/06/american-school-children-bellamy-salute.jpg

https://www.procon.org/files/UG%20Images/BigPledge.gif

http://history.verdeserve.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/11.jpg

Are those photos from Nazi Germany? Nope, they're right here in the U.S. of A. It's funny because the people who get upset the most about the Pledge would probably have a stroke if they found out it was written by a socialist.

As for the "under God" part, that wasn't part of the original pledge. That was added in the 1950's along with "In God We Trust" as our National Motto. Why? Well, the Red Scare was in full swing, the Soviet Union was an atheist state, and we wanted to show "them god damn godless commies we're better than them cause we got religion!"

OhU1
9/14/2011, 11:47 AM
Agree TU.

It's kind of sad that few people seem to realize the "under God" language was not part of the pledge until congress added it in the McCarthy era of the 50's. In my opinion adding the words "under God" was a violation of the establishment clause and ironically anti-American in the first place. Indeed, the fake patriotism seen in chain e-mails and Facebook is pretty shallow.

Before anyone accuses me of being an oversensitive atheist heathen, I really don't care about "under God", "Merry Christmas", and "In God we Trust". It's all rather silly and unimportant in my opinion.

TUSooner
9/14/2011, 11:52 AM
What's with all this agreement?! Pretty disappointing.... :frown:



:wink:

MR2-Sooner86
9/14/2011, 12:09 PM
Just looking at the military oath.


I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.

Yes I took out the part of obeying the President as the Commander-in-Chief. With that said, our military swears allegiance to the Constitution, not the flag. Why can't the pledge of allegiance do the same?

Ike
9/14/2011, 12:11 PM
I try not to think about fake-facebook-patriotism like the examples you mention here, but when I do, I am often a little taken aback at people who think it is somehow patriotic to make kids say the pledge at school. This strikes me as the antithesis of what our nation stands for (or at least claims to stand for): The ability to choose your life. Making kids pledge their allegiance to either the flag or the country (especially at ages where it is unlikely that they would know what the words "indivisible", "allegiance", or "republic" even mean) teaches those kids that either a) you don't really have as much choice as we will later tell you you have; or b) that words don't matter...you say it to get on with the day, and that it means exactly bupkus for your life. IMO, neither of those two lessons are beneficial, either for the kids, or for society as a whole.

Pricetag
9/14/2011, 12:13 PM
Since I am probably your parents' age, I'll say that the Pledgg has probably taken on that misty wonderfulness that attaches to many things in the past, even if inaccurately. :)
Heh, you don't act like you're pushing 70.

XingTheRubicon
9/14/2011, 12:42 PM
I'm getting pretty offended at the end of Obama's speeches...what a bible thumper.

TUSooner
9/14/2011, 12:50 PM
Heh, you don't act like you're pushing 70.

Sheesh. Maybe I'm YOUR age... but just overly sentimental. <shakes head>

Ton Loc
9/14/2011, 01:29 PM
The Pledge is something I remember to this day, but at the same time I'm not sure what the point was.

Also, my kid is in the Mid-Del school district and they still do the Pledge. Also they do the folllowing:

The Oklahoma Pledge
A Student Pledge
A Be a Good Person Pledge
Word of the Day
And the Teacher's PLedge - no one really does that one, not even the teachers.

Its about 5 minutes of nonsense no one really pays attention to. I heard it when I took my kid to 1st grade this year and I was totally WTF the whole time, but no one else seemed to notice it.

SCOUT
9/14/2011, 01:38 PM
Patriotism is good but it can become a cult. Personally, I never got the pledge of allegiance and now that I'm older, find it rather stupid. Why? Well why would I pledge my allegiance to a flag? If I'm pledging allegiance to anything it's the United States Constitution.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands...

Sure it doesn't specify the constitution, but I think it is still clear that you are not just addressing the flag.

JohnnyMack
9/14/2011, 01:55 PM
I'm getting pretty offended at the end of Obama's speeches...what a koran thumper.

FIFY

47straight
9/14/2011, 02:02 PM
How dare those "pledgers" get all up in your face with that.

MR2-Sooner86
9/14/2011, 02:35 PM
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands...

Sure it doesn't specify the constitution, but I think it is still clear that you are not just addressing the flag.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/k/kp.gif

This flag represents the Democratic People’s Republic.

Without naming the country, it has a flag that represents "the Republic for which it stands."

Is that the case though?

SicEmBaylor
9/14/2011, 02:50 PM
I try to accept the pledge for what it is -- an act of respect toward the nation we call home.

However, I have a real serious issue with pledging undying allegiance to any state. The "indivisible" part of the pledge is far far more offensive than the God part, IMHO.

TUSooner
9/14/2011, 03:03 PM
Just looking at the military oath.



Yes I took out the part of obeying the President as the Commander-in-Chief. With that said, our military swears allegiance to the Constitution, not the flag. Why can't the pledge of allegiance do the same?

Does that mean you consider obeying the C-in-C as merely an option, depending on whether you like his politics? That's a real question, not an acusation, by the way. Perhaps you left that part out as simply not relevant to this issue.

SCOUT
9/14/2011, 03:08 PM
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/k/kp.gif

This flag represents the Democratic People’s Republic.

Without naming the country, it has a flag that represents "the Republic for which it stands."

Is that the case though?

I pledge allegiance to the flag OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and to the Republic for which it stands.

MR2-Sooner86
9/14/2011, 03:19 PM
Does that mean you consider obeying the C-in-C as merely an option, depending on whether you like his politics? That's a real question, not an acusation, by the way. Perhaps you left that part out as simply not relevant to this issue.

I left that part out because he isn't my boss. When you join the military, the C-in-C is your boss and when he gives you an order, you obey. That doesn't apply to a civilian.

47straight
9/14/2011, 11:00 PM
One time I had to pledge allegiance to the State of California as part of a job.


I crossed my fingers.

TUSooner
9/15/2011, 07:58 AM
I left that part out because he isn't my boss. When you join the military, the C-in-C is your boss and when he gives you an order, you obey. That doesn't apply to a civilian.
True, dat.

soonercruiser
9/15/2011, 08:46 PM
GOD Bless This Thread!
:tongue:

Tulsa_Fireman
9/18/2011, 02:08 PM
I pledge allegiance to my bawls and poon.

soonercruiser
9/18/2011, 09:14 PM
I left that part out because he isn't my boss. When you join the military, the C-in-C is your boss and when he gives you an order, you obey. That doesn't apply to a civilian.

Again, you guys leave out one detail in that oath....."obey the lawful orders of....".
You are not required to LIE for the C-in-C!
He does a good enough job of that on his own!
:tongue: