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JohnnyMack
9/12/2011, 01:05 PM
So BofA has announced it will shave 30,000 jobs off its payroll over the next few years, as reported here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-12/bofa-to-slash-30-000-jobs-in-first-phase-of-cost-cutting-program.html

Now some of these positions will be current employees and some of these positions will be jobs they had intended to create but are now choosing to contract instead of expanding.

As you also remember Warren Buffett recently purchases $5 billion dollars worth of BofA stock and was in turn rewarded with a guaranteed 6% annual dividend (or $300,000,000) for the next 10 years.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/buffett-to-invest-5-billion-in-bank-of-america/

That means he would earn $3 billion dollars if he chose to sit on the stock for the next decade.

The rich get richer and once again no jobs are created.

pphilfran
9/12/2011, 01:13 PM
So BofA has announced it will shave 30,000 jobs off its payroll over the next few years, as reported here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-12/bofa-to-slash-30-000-jobs-in-first-phase-of-cost-cutting-program.html

Now some of these positions will be current employees and some of these positions will be jobs they had intended to create but are now choosing to contract instead of expanding.

As you also remember Warren Buffett recently purchases $5 billion dollars worth of BofA stock and was in turn rewarded with a guaranteed 6% annual dividend (or $300,000,000) for the next 10 years.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/buffett-to-invest-5-billion-in-bank-of-america/

That means he would earn $3 billion dollars if he chose to sit on the stock for the next decade.

The rich get richer and once again no jobs are created.

If he thought he was only going to get 3 billion in profit over three years he would not have done the deal...accounting for stock rise he is expecting at least a double over ten years...he is probably shooting for a triple with that dividend...

jk the sooner fan
9/12/2011, 01:16 PM
kill the rich!!!!!!!!

marfacowboy
9/12/2011, 01:20 PM
BOA is essentially a criminal organization. I bank with a small, local bank for both business and personal accounts and would never go back to a massive organization like that. Local and small suits me well.

Turd_Ferguson
9/12/2011, 01:22 PM
small suits me well.That's what she said you said...

JohnnyMack
9/12/2011, 01:23 PM
kill the rich!!!!!!!!

As usual, you're missing the point. Or simply being intentionally obtuse.

Turd_Ferguson
9/12/2011, 01:24 PM
As usual, you're missing the point. Or simply being intentionally obtuse.You lost me at obtuse...

jk the sooner fan
9/12/2011, 01:24 PM
i get the point......i promise

pphilfran
9/12/2011, 01:24 PM
BOA is essentially a criminal organization. I bank with a small, local bank for both business and personal accounts and would never go back to a massive organization like that. Local and small suits me well.

You may not like the way big banks do business...but they are a far cry from: BOA is essentially a criminal organization

marfacowboy
9/12/2011, 02:18 PM
You may not like the way big banks do business...but they are a far cry from: BOA is essentially a criminal organization

When you intentionally prey on people and use predatory practices to fatten the pockets of a few, you're right on the line in my book. It's just wrong. Most big banks operate in that manner these days, and their activities are highly questionable. The fact that more of the executives are not in prison is amazing to me.

badger
9/12/2011, 02:27 PM
Bank of Oklahoma for our household. It has Oklahoma in its name, it has to be awesome :D

And my card with them still has an OU logo on it because it hasn't gotten identity thefted yet and I got it shortly before OU switched its banking partnership or whatever it is :D

marfacowboy
9/12/2011, 02:34 PM
That's what she said you said...

It ain't the size of the bull, it's how it bucks.

TUSooner
9/12/2011, 02:38 PM
So BofA has announced it will shave 30,000 jobs off its payroll over the next few years, as reported here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-12/bofa-to-slash-30-000-jobs-in-first-phase-of-cost-cutting-program.html

Now some of these positions will be current employees and some of these positions will be jobs they had intended to create but are now choosing to contract instead of expanding.

As you also remember Warren Buffett recently purchases $5 billion dollars worth of BofA stock and was in turn rewarded with a guaranteed 6% annual dividend (or $300,000,000) for the next 10 years.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/buffett-to-invest-5-billion-in-bank-of-america/

That means he would earn $3 billion dollars if he chose to sit on the stock for the next decade.

The rich get richer and once again no jobs are created.

I don't understand your point, JM. This is "capitalism," the antithesis of "socialism" which is just another name for Pure Evil. People, including people like BoA, have an inalienable and unrestrictable right to make as much money as they can. Any regulation or -- God forbid -- taxation of these benign giants would be an insult and a danger to the freedom of the market place. So you need to man up, quit whining, and trust the welfare of the Nation and its citizens to the tender mercies of BoA and its Big Capital cohort. Then all will be well. Trust me.

Turd_Ferguson
9/12/2011, 02:45 PM
It ain't the size of the bull, it's how it bucks.8 seconds ain't noth'n to brag about...

marfacowboy
9/12/2011, 02:49 PM
I don't understand your point, JM. This is "capitalism," the antithesis of "socialism" which is just another name for Pure Evil. People, including people like BoA, have an inalienable and unrestrictable right to make as much money as they can. Any regulation or -- God forbid -- taxation of these benign giants would be an insult and a danger to the freedom of the market place. So you need to man up, quit whining, and trust the welfare of the Nation and its citizens to the tender mercies of BoA and its Big Capital cohort. Then all will be well. Trust me.

Just 'cause it's legal don't mean it's right.
I spent some time working for big corporations. My experience suggests, as does a lot of irrefutable evidence, many big corporations and a lot of super wealthy people make their uber-profits off the backs of people that aren't always well equipped to do anything about it. Some destroy the land. Get by with whatever they can, and all for the almighty dollar. It's out of control and unsustainable economically, and the whole nation is facing a comeuppance. Mainly our kids and grandkids. It's a shame what's happened, and it's not one political party or another. It's just greed.

marfacowboy
9/12/2011, 02:51 PM
8 seconds ain't noth'n to brag about...

Hell, I'd be happy to see eight seconds.

Turd_Ferguson
9/12/2011, 02:56 PM
Hell, I'd be happy to see eight seconds.Told ya it was noth'n to brag about, but here ya go...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109021/

badger
9/12/2011, 02:58 PM
I don't understand your point, JM. This is "capitalism," the antithesis of "socialism" which is just another name for Pure Evil. People, including people like BoA, have an inalienable and unrestrictable right to make as much money as they can. Any regulation or -- God forbid -- taxation of these benign giants would be an insult and a danger to the freedom of the market place. So you need to man up, quit whining, and trust the welfare of the Nation and its citizens to the tender mercies of BoA and its Big Capital cohort. Then all will be well. Trust me.

There is one reason why Bank of America shouldn't have the "inalienable, unrestrictable right to make as much money as they can" without "any regulation" or "taxation.

A $20 billion government bailout in 2009.

I don't care if they paid it back, they still owe the government for getting them back on their feet and therefore, they should not be an unrestricted, free-to-do-whatever business that might just fall back on begging for bailout money. The government has a right to keep an eye on a company it has invested in just two years ago.

I love capitalism, but BoA gave up its unquestioned independence by accepting U.S. government help.

marfacowboy
9/12/2011, 03:06 PM
Told ya it was noth'n to brag about, but here ya go...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109021/

Great film, terrible story. He was a good 'un.

TUSooner
9/12/2011, 03:07 PM
I don't understand your point, JM. This is "capitalism," the antithesis of "socialism" which is just another name for Pure Evil. People, including people like BoA, have an inalienable and unrestrictable right to make as much money as they can. Any regulation or -- God forbid -- taxation of these benign giants would be an insult and a danger to the freedom of the market place. So you need to man up, quit whining, and trust the welfare of the Nation and its citizens to the tender mercies of BoA and its Big Capital cohort. Then all will be well. Trust me.

I perceive my ironical sarcasm was a failure. I belive in capitalsim as well; economic freedom goes hand in hand all other freedoms. Yet, when I see behavior like this from unaccountable corporations, I know that laissez faire is not the answer. I suppose anyone is theoretically free to buy BoA stock and share the loot, but some folks will have to wait until they finish buying groceries and paying taxes and health insurance premiums before they can drop $5BB on stock.

jk the sooner fan
9/12/2011, 06:41 PM
Just 'cause it's legal don't mean it's right.
I spent some time working for big corporations. My experience suggests, as does a lot of irrefutable evidence, many big corporations and a lot of super wealthy people make their uber-profits off the backs of people that aren't always well equipped to do anything about it. Some destroy the land. Get by with whatever they can, and all for the almighty dollar. It's out of control and unsustainable economically, and the whole nation is facing a comeuppance. Mainly our kids and grandkids. It's a shame what's happened, and it's not one political party or another. It's just greed.

so what percentage of profits do you think they arent entitled too? I can only assume that you think that the people whose backs this money is earned off should get a cut....what %?? are you for an equitable split amongst all co-workers of the entire profit margin?

Caboose
9/12/2011, 07:27 PM
And in other news: The purpose of Bank of America's existence is to create jobs! Who knew?

49r
9/12/2011, 07:32 PM
I perceive my ironical sarcasm was a failure. I belive in capitalsim as well; economic freedom goes hand in hand all other freedoms. Yet, when I see behavior like this from unaccountable corporations, I know that laissez faire is not the answer. I suppose anyone is theoretically free to buy BoA stock and share the loot, but some folks will have to wait until they finish buying groceries and paying taxes and health insurance premiums before they can drop $5BB on stock.

fwiw TUSooner, *I* got the sarcasm...and yes, we are now seeing the results of decades of deregulation. I am of the opinion we are at or are near the bottom of this cycle. At least I hope so.

GKeeper316
9/12/2011, 11:47 PM
I don't understand your point, JM. This is "capitalism," the antithesis of "socialism" which is just another name for Pure Evil. People, including people like BoA, have an inalienable and unrestrictable right to make as much money as they can. Any regulation or -- God forbid -- taxation of these benign giants would be an insult and a danger to the freedom of the market place. So you need to man up, quit whining, and trust the welfare of the Nation and its citizens to the tender mercies of BoA and its Big Capital cohort. Then all will be well. Trust me.

ikr??

prrriiide
9/13/2011, 01:27 AM
It ain't the size of the bull, it's how it bucks.

Keep tellin' yerself that, hoss.

prrriiide
9/13/2011, 01:34 AM
so what percentage of profits do you think they arent entitled too? I can only assume that you think that the people whose backs this money is earned off should get a cut....what %?? are you for an equitable split amongst all co-workers of the entire profit margin?

They're entitled to 100% of the profits that don't come at the cost of the environment, are not sleazy fine-print charges and fees, that aren't anywhere close to a gray area legally, that don't come as a result of shady business practices (like CDS's), and aren't coming at the same time that they are putting 30,000 people in the unemployment line for the American taxpayer to take care of. When you look at their job cuts like that, it's just another government bailout that they're looking for, only this time they don't have to pay it back.


And in other news: The purpose of Bank of America's existence is to create jobs! Who knew?

If they're going to hire them in the first place, they need to be ready to take care of them. If the company can get along without those 30,000 people now, why'd they hire them in the first place? Answer: they were flush with government bailout money and could pocket big profits, all while looking good as a job creating business. Now that the government titty has dried up, they have to get their profits from the same place the rich and corporations always do: at the expense of the everyday guy.

marfacowboy
9/13/2011, 04:14 AM
so what percentage of profits do you think they arent entitled too? I can only assume that you think that the people whose backs this money is earned off should get a cut....what %?? are you for an equitable split amongst all co-workers of the entire profit margin?

I think the solution to most of the disparities in large corporations, where senior executives make 500% more than the average worker, is for workers to have more equity. That's what I did in my own company. I offer every employee ownership, either through allowing them to buy in or earn equity through service and other contributions. Everyone has a voice. We'd discuss and perhaps vote on key measures. Things are open. It's called democracy in the workplace. And we have virtually no turnover. In fact, we haven't lost an employee since 2005, and that one needed to go. People don't feel like they're just part of some big machine, where the senior management is living in another universe from the average worker. Our customer churn rate is low, as well. It all fits together.
And if companies like BP weren't allowed to go into countries like Nigeria (or the Gulf), and completely trash their country and either pay nothing or a pittance for their misdeeds, their profits would not be so obscene.

diverdog
9/13/2011, 06:10 AM
so what percentage of profits do you think they arent entitled too? I can only assume that you think that the people whose backs this money is earned off should get a cut....what %?? are you for an equitable split amongst all co-workers of the entire profit margin?

BOA took their bail out money and instead of loaning it out they invested it in US treasuries. So not only do they get taxpayer dollars but they also continue to make a profit off the backs of the taxpayer. I would say they should not be entitled to those profits.

Caboose
9/13/2011, 08:04 AM
If they're going to hire them in the first place, they need to be ready to take care of them.

REEEEEEEALLY? IS that how you think it works? I cant wait to inform my employer today that they have to "take care of me" for the rest of my life since they hired me in the first place.

GrapevineSooner
9/13/2011, 08:57 AM
If they're going to hire them in the first place, they need to be ready to take care of them.

Ever heard the term, "At Will" employment?

Turd_Ferguson
9/13/2011, 10:34 AM
REEEEEEEALLY? IS that how you think it works? I cant wait to inform my employer today that they have to "take care of me" for the rest of my life since they hired me in the first place.This is where the unions work out really well. They fight for the employee that can't/won't do his/her job...

JohnnyMack
9/13/2011, 10:44 AM
Bank of America can do whatever it wants. They can hire people, not hire people, take all their cash and burn it in a giant bonfire while drinking untold cases of Natty Light. It's their prerogative. So can Warren Buffett. The thread was merely meant as an observation as to how money, and in turn wealth, is managed in today's economy. Ultimately Bank of America has to answer to its stock holders. The stock holders want profits and dividend checks.

GKeeper316
9/13/2011, 12:40 PM
This is where the unions work out really well. They fight for the employee that can't/won't do his/her job...

thats not true and you know it...

TUSooner
9/13/2011, 04:05 PM
And in other news: The purpose of Bank of America's existence is to create jobs! Who knew?

Of course you make a valid point. Yet the bigger question is what IS the goal of a nation's economy, or the world's for that matter? Everything starts with free enterprise, but is the goal of an economic system simply to allow the stronge, clever, and ambitious to enrich themselves by any means short of armed robbery? Should it not also be to provide goods and services that others are willing to pay for, like Adam Smith's nifty model (which has great fundmenatl truth in it, despite its age).

And what about employment? Is an economic system successful if a large number of people (how large is OK?) are willing and able to work but have no jobs? Is it successfull if the wealth is, more or less, "hoarded" or kept out of circulation by the richest people? (Let them at least buy luxury goods and hire servants.) These are serious questions that the folks with canned ideological answers don't want to touch. Metaphysics meets economics every day, and that's undeniable. I sure don't have the answers, but ignoring the question is not an answer either.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/13/2011, 04:37 PM
That's what she said you said...Obviously! Bulls Eye!

Bourbon St Sooner
9/13/2011, 04:49 PM
I can't believe some of you guys think big business and the government are different entities. They are one in the same. Each working in the interest of the other.

The problem has never been unfettered capitalism. It's crony capitalism. BAC should be in the ****ter right now.

SicEmBaylor
9/13/2011, 05:13 PM
I've always found it ironic that Bank of America's spokesman is a Canadian socialist.

SicEmBaylor
9/13/2011, 05:14 PM
I can't believe some of you guys think big business and the government are different entities. They are one in the same. Each working in the interest of the other.

The problem has never been unfettered capitalism. It's crony capitalism. BAC should be in the ****ter right now.

This. I'm continually astounded that so-called conservatives fail to see the same danger in Big Business that they see in Big Government. You're totally right -- each works in the interest of the other.

pphilfran
9/13/2011, 05:25 PM
Glass–Steagall Act

marfacowboy
9/13/2011, 05:35 PM
I can't believe some of you guys think big business and the government are different entities. They are one in the same. Each working in the interest of the other.

The problem has never been unfettered capitalism. It's crony capitalism. BAC should be in the ****ter right now.

Ding. We have a winner. The only exception I'd make is that unfettered capitalism, capitalism based on the principle of growth ad infinitum, is non-sustainable. All of our growth, since the advent of industrialism, has been based on the cheap availability of fossil fuels. It can't last. Economic systems can't exist in a vacuum that ignores biological and geophysical reality. While industrial growth has delivered many wonderful things, we've allowed it to get out of hand.
I was always struck by a scene in Lonesome Dove where Woodrow Call is trying to get Gus to agree to go to Montana. He states he wants to get there "before the bankers and lawyers get there" and ruin it. Of course, the horse is out of the barn, and I'm not sure how we can get back to something more sensible.
I remember when I was in my late twenties and early thirties and everyone was "fired up" about working for a big corporation, making money and living the dream. By the time most of us hit 40, we were looking for ways out.
Good discussion, folks.

TUSooner
9/13/2011, 06:09 PM
I can't believe some of you guys think big business and the government are different entities. They are one in the same. Each working in the interest of the other.

The problem has never been unfettered capitalism. It's crony capitalism. BAC should be in the ****ter right now.

Ah, so! That's a true thing.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/13/2011, 06:17 PM
Ding. We have a winner. The only exception I'd make is that unfettered capitalism, capitalism based on the principle of growth ad infinitum, is non-sustainable. All of our growth, since the advent of industrialism, has been based on the cheap availability of fossil fuels. It can't last. Economic systems can't exist in a vacuum that ignores biological and geophysical reality. While industrial growth has delivered many wonderful things, we've allowed it to get out of hand.
I was always struck by a scene in Lonesome Dove where Woodrow Call is trying to get Gus to agree to go to Montana. He states he wants to get there "before the bankers and lawyers get there" and ruin it. Of course, the horse is out of the barn, and I'm not sure how we can get back to something more sensible.
I remember when I was in my late twenties and early thirties and everyone was "fired up" about working for a big corporation, making money and living the dream. By the time most of us hit 40, we were looking for ways out.
Good discussion, folks.haha. yeah, you got it all figgered out.

TUSooner
9/13/2011, 08:52 PM
haha. yeah, you got it all figgered out.

crickets: chirp, chirp, chirp

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/14/2011, 04:50 PM
crickets: chirp, chirp, chirpThat's a fitting end to a thilly thread! The End!