PDA

View Full Version : Justice Dept Attacks on Gibson Guitar Politically motivated??



soonercruiser
9/8/2011, 10:35 AM
This post is a follow-up to my previous post about the armed federal raids on Gibson Guitar's 3 production factories stateside.

The story seems to be evolving into a political motivated attack by the Justice Department.
Remember - Obama himself said that "we will punish our enemies"! And most of you just dismissed that as hollow rhetoric.
But, the Obama Administration has taken political cronyism to a whole new level. Is this the change we were promised??
It seems to be one of the only significant changes we can see with this group of thugs!

The Justice Department has become a tool of the LW of the Demoncratic Party! The use of federal power and resources in unAmerican, and immoral!
Consider the selective enforcement of U.S. law - lack of immigration law enforcement, and dismissal of voter intimidation cases; and now intimidation of businesses owned by conservative contributors.



CEO of Gibson Guitar a Republican donor; Democrat competitor uses same wood
By ANDREW LAWTON - Fri Aug 26, 1:17 pm

Gibson’s press release claims that, while this incident marks the second raid of their facility in around two years, this is the first of the raids to cost the company time and resources, as they needed to shut down operations. It seems as though this was all for naught.
The release read:

"The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department’s interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.
On August 24, 2011, around 8:45 a.m. CDT, agents for the federal government executed four search warrants on Gibson’s facilities in Nashville and Memphis and seized several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. Gibson had to cease its manufacturing operations and send workers home for the day, while armed agents executed the search warrants. Gibson has fully cooperated with the execution of the search warrants.
The fact that the government would issue warrants based on their interpretation of another country’s laws is laughable–and scary–in and of itself, but that they would demonize an American, non-unionized (coincidentally, I’m sure) company for something that isn’t even a crime (especially not in the American lawbooks) is a gross misjustice. Keep in mind that the Indian government itself wasn’t involved in the Gibson warrants and raid.
This unfortunate event begs the question, Why Gibson?
Putting aside the presumably misguided motivation to enforce another sovereign nation’s laws, why would a homegrown American company be the target of the Department of Justice in the first place?
It’s worth pointing out that Henry E. Juszkiewicz, Gibson’s Chief Executive Officer, is a donor to a couple of Republican politicians. According to the Open Secrets database, Juszkiewicz donated $2000 to Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN07) last year, as well as $1500 to Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN). Juszkiewicz also has donated $10,000 to the Consumer Electronics Association, a PAC that contributed $92.5k to Republican candidates last year, as opposed to $72k to Democrats. (The CEA did, however, contribute more to Democrats in the 2008 election cycle.)

When warrants as ridiculous such as these are issued and executed, there appears no other reason than because the company or individual at hand is being targeted, not because there is any sort of wrongdoing. As a company, Gibson is a legendary. They’ve done nothing wrong, except, apparently, deigning to have a Republican CEO."

The plot thickens, however.
One of Gibson’s leading competitors is C.F. Martin & Company. The C.E.O., Chris Martin IV, is a long-time Democratic supporter, with $35,400 in contributions to Democratic candidates and the DNC over the past couple of election cycles. According to C.F. Martin’s catalog, several of their guitars contain “East Indian Rosewood.” In case you were wondering, that is the exact same wood in at least ten of Gibson’s guitars.
The Gibson facility wasn’t raided over allegations of tax evasion, charges of embezzlement, or even something as drab as child labor. Not even close. It was raided over what the DOJ deems an inability to follow a vague domestic trade law in India (one that apparently the Indian government didn’t seem too concerned about enforcing) regarding a specific type of wood. Not illegal wood, just wood with obscenely specific procedural guidelines.
http://landmarkreport.com/andrew/2011/08/ceo-of-gibson-guitar-a-republican-donor/



DOJ used to punish Republican Donors Gibson Guitar Company
http://www.thecitizen.com/node/8415

http://nation.foxnews.com/gibson-guitars/2011/08/28/ceo-gibson-guitar-republican-donor-democrat-competitor-uses-same-wood

OutlandTrophy
9/8/2011, 12:48 PM
It's a freaking travesty as to what's going on with the Gibson raid. If the rosewood would have been ready to assemble with the inlays already installed in India then there would have been no big deal. Since Gibson imports raw wood and has American workers assemble them here in America they get raided.

What a POS piece of legislation.

Maybe the Democrats will continue with these types of jobs bills. The kind that penalize American workers. Assclowns.

Thank you Democrats.

OutlandTrophy
9/8/2011, 12:52 PM
VjvPdHqpgfM

thanks, Democratic party.

Thanks a lot.

pphilfran
9/8/2011, 12:54 PM
Nothing, I repeat, nothing ever surprises me...

TUSooner
9/9/2011, 08:35 AM
Yeah, but more Democrats play Gibsons!

I got nuthin. The law is dumb and badly enforced, but I'm always skeptical of claims that every bad act must be motivated by a petty, partisan vendetta.

sappstuf
9/29/2011, 11:06 AM
A photo has been released from the raid...

http://c1.nrostatic.com/uploaded/imagecache/homepage/pic_homie_092711_AAA.jpg

Midtowner
9/29/2011, 11:56 AM
That there's some sort of deep conspiracy against Gibson seems a little iffy. And if Gibson is guilty of violating the law, they ought to be punished.

Turd_Ferguson
9/29/2011, 12:52 PM
And if Gibson is guilty of violating the law, they ought to be punished.I bet you feel the exact same way about illegal immigrants...

pphilfran
9/29/2011, 01:06 PM
I bet you feel the exact same way about illegal immigrants...

What does illegal immigration have to do with the fed going after Gibson for using an illegal (producing country that we support) raw material import?

Midtowner
9/29/2011, 01:08 PM
I bet you feel the exact same way about illegal immigrants...

I believe they should follow the law as well, but I don't see what that has to do with the price of tea in China.

sappstuf
9/29/2011, 01:11 PM
What does illegal immigration have to do with the fed going after Gibson for using an illegal (producing country that we support) raw material import?

Phil,

I think his point was that if both actions are illegal than the illegal immigrants should be held accountable as well.

pphilfran
9/29/2011, 01:24 PM
Phil,

I think his point was that if both actions are illegal than the illegal immigrants should be held accountable as well.

Well, errrrr, maybe...

sappstuf
9/29/2011, 01:25 PM
Phil,

I think his point was that if both actions are illegal than the illegal immigrants should be held accountable as well.

For example..

Obama's uncle was in court this morning because he was driving drunk and hit a cop car. He has also been in the country illegally for 20 years..

Consequences?


His attorney, P. Scott Bratton, did, however, tell the Herald that Obama, who has been living illegally in the United States for nearly 20 years, has returned to work at Conti Liquors in Framingham.

I would like to think that Uncle Obama is getting special favors... But I know he isn't at least in returning to work..

I'm sure that job is one that "Americans don't want".....

diverdog
9/29/2011, 02:00 PM
It's a freaking travesty as to what's going on with the Gibson raid. If the rosewood would have been ready to assemble with the inlays already installed in India then there would have been no big deal. Since Gibson imports raw wood and has American workers assemble them here in America they get raided.

What a POS piece of legislation.

Maybe the Democrats will continue with these types of jobs bills. The kind that penalize American workers. Assclowns.

Thank you Democrats.

There are a couple of things at work here. The Lacy Act which forbids the trade in threatened and endangered species in the US and the International CITIES treaty. Both are good laws and do what they are suppose to do and that is protect things that are highly threatened. This violation actually falls under the 2008 revision that protects a broader range of forest products.

My question would be how on earth did these products make it to Gibson through customs? Was there illegal documentation or did customs not inspect the shipment? It seems to me that they were ratted out by a competitor that could not get their hands on the same type of woods.

I do not believe for a second that this is some sort of political retaliation. If Gibson wants to play the woe is me card and continues to paint this as some sort of political hit job then they do it at their own risk. There are lots of left wing guitar players out there who would not want to be playing on guitars that caused the destruction of endangered forest.

If I were Gibson's marketing company I would sign on to the Rainforest Action Networks pledge to not use any threatened or endangered woods or wood from certain forest in the building of my guitars.

Finally, if they violated the law then they should be fined.

sappstuf
9/29/2011, 02:08 PM
Did they get their Rosewoods mixed up?


East Indian Rosewood has been used extensively on acoustic guitars since the mid 1960s as a substitute for the now-endangered Brazilian Rosewood.

East Indian Rosewood is commonly used for fine furniture, musical instruments, veneer, turned and other specialty wood objects.

pphilfran
9/29/2011, 02:19 PM
The wood could legally be imported if they were in the complete form of a fret board...

The wood Gibson (and supposedly others) used was not the finished product, only the raw wood...

To me this seems to be a pizz ant item...the fed should have called up the CEO of Gibson and set up a meeting...tell the CEO that the wood they have cannot be imported again in the future. it is against trade laws of countries we trade with....use up your current inventory of wood but on future orders find a supplier for the completed fret board....

sappstuf
9/29/2011, 02:22 PM
The wood could legally be imported if they were in the complete form of a fret board...

The wood Gibson (and supposedly others) used was not the finished product, only the raw wood...

To me this seems to be a pizz ant item...the fed should have called up the CEO of Gibson and set up a meeting...tell the CEO that the wood they have cannot be imported again in the future. it is against trade laws of countries we trade with....use up your current inventory of wood but on future orders find a supplier for the completed fret board....

So you are saying it is nothing to fret about? ;)

pphilfran
9/29/2011, 03:03 PM
So you are saying it is nothing to fret about? ;)

:(

TheHumanAlphabet
9/30/2011, 04:00 AM
Gibson guitars are killing trees and deforesting the world, didn't you know. obammy will save us all and make the climate better...

sappstuf
9/30/2011, 06:22 AM
The wood could legally be imported if they were in the complete form of a fret board...

The wood Gibson (and supposedly others) used was not the finished product, only the raw wood...

To me this seems to be a pizz ant item...the fed should have called up the CEO of Gibson and set up a meeting...tell the CEO that the wood they have cannot be imported again in the future. it is against trade laws of countries we trade with....use up your current inventory of wood but on future orders find a supplier for the completed fret board....

Phil,

I ran across this and you are right.


Namely, a June shipment of 1,250 sawn logs was classified as "finished parts of musical instruments," which is allowed under Indian law. In reality, according to the sworn affidavit of Fish and Wildlife Service agent Kevin Seiler, the wood was unfinished – a violation of the Lacey Act.

The Lacey Act, originally passed by Congress in 1900, was amended in 2008 as part of that year’s Farm Bill to include protection for certain wood and endangered animal species. At its core, the Lacey Act makes it illegal to import plants or wildlife into the U.S. if those goods are harvested in a way that violates the laws of another country.

It isn't that the wood can't be used and sold, it is that Indian laws are trying to protect their labor force(Harvesting and manufacturing into fret boards is two completely different things). Obama is apparently happy to help the Indians enforce their labor laws at the expense of American labor....

I'm glad our economy is humming along and unemployment is at all time lows or this WOOD be silly.

sappstuf
9/30/2011, 06:34 AM
The wood could legally be imported if they were in the complete form of a fret board...

The wood Gibson (and supposedly others) used was not the finished product, only the raw wood...

To me this seems to be a pizz ant item...the fed should have called up the CEO of Gibson and set up a meeting...tell the CEO that the wood they have cannot be imported again in the future. it is against trade laws of countries we trade with....use up your current inventory of wood but on future orders find a supplier for the completed fret board....

Are you kidding? That isn't how the Feds roll..


In 2009, more than a dozen agents with automatic weapons invaded the Gibson factory in Nashville.

You thought I was joking with the old Ellian Gonzalez photo!

http://c1.nrostatic.com/uploaded/imagecache/homepage/pic_homie_092711_AAA.jpg

soonercruiser
9/30/2011, 09:24 PM
New Justice Department and ATF joint initiative!
Guns for Guitars!
:jaded:

TitoMorelli
9/30/2011, 11:16 PM
http://rlv.zcache.com/obama_change_you_can_step_in_bumper_sticker-p128809884508928509trl0_400.jpg