The Baylor Position

[SicEmBaylor]

I know there are several threads on similar topics that I could post this in, but I want it in one place.

As I have said elsewhere, this is not about Baylor suing. This is about Baylor refusing to waive its right to sue which no school should do regardless of where they may land after this conference mess is over and done with. I'm sure there are fans of other schools (including this one) who are somewhat miffed about Baylor being the fly in the ointment in all of this, but Baylor is doing what it needs to do in order to secure its own interests.

Let me make this crystal clear: Baylor is doing what EVERY other school in this cluster**** mess has been doing all along, looking out for itself by using whatever resources it has available to it. UT has its money and alumni base, OU has its football prestige, other schools have their TV markets, etc. What Baylor has are trainloads of attorneys who are alumni of our fair institution. If there is anything that Baylor does well, it has always been the quiet use of its legal and political power. Don't forget that our President is one of the nation's most renowned (and by some reviled) attorneys. In all of this mess, I have really feared that our administration was sitting on its *** waiting for the dominoes to fall. It's now clear that Baylor has deftly wielded its political and legal power to put itself into a position with at least one bargaining chip (we don't have very many).

The alternative to this is to do nothing. We stand to lose a lot when the music stops in conference realignment. Standing idle and allowing that to happen uncontested is the absolute worst option. I'm not sure what our end-game in all of this is, but at least we now have some bargaining power that we will use to soften our "landing" when the Big XII does collapse. EVERY other school in the Big XII has been acting in its own interests and we are absolutely no different. We no more have an obligation to stand quiet and allow Aggie to pursuit an action that will result in real detrimental harm to our university than any other school does for the same reasons.

Once again, just so this is crystal clear, Baylor is NOT suing (at the moment). This isn't about that. It's about refusing to waive our right to legal action not about the legal action in and of itself. There's a big distinction between suing and giving up the right to future legal action.

SicEm OUT! ;)

[NormanPride]

tl;dr

Baylor is crying because they are butthurt that the aggies are getting what they want. [/troll]

[Cantstandya]

I know there are several threads on similar topics that I could post this in, but I want it in one place.

As I have said elsewhere, this is not about Baylor suing. This is about Baylor refusing to waive its right to sue which no school should do regardless of where they may land after this conference mess is over and done with. I'm sure there are fans of other schools (including this one) who are somewhat miffed about Baylor being the fly in the ointment in all of this, but Baylor is doing what it needs to do in order to secure its own interests.

Let me make this crystal clear: Baylor is doing what EVERY other school in this cluster**** mess has been doing all along, looking out for itself by using whatever resources it has available to it. UT has its money and alumni base, OU has its football prestige, other schools have their TV markets, etc. What Baylor has are trainloads of attorneys who are alumni of our fair institution. If there is anything that Baylor does well, it has always been the quiet use of its legal and political power. Don't forget that our President is one of the nation's most renowned (and by some reviled) attorneys. In all of this mess, I have really feared that our administration was sitting on its *** waiting for the dominoes to fall. It's now clear that Baylor has deftly wielded its political and legal power to put itself into a position with at least one bargaining chip (we don't have very many).

The alternative to this is to do nothing. We stand to lose a lot when the music stops in conference realignment. Standing idle and allowing that to happen uncontested is the absolute worst option. I'm not sure what our end-game in all of this is, but at least we now have some bargaining power that we will use to soften our "landing" when the Big XII does collapse. EVERY other school in the Big XII has been acting in its own interests and we are absolutely no different. We no more have an obligation to stand quiet and allow Aggie to pursuit an action that will result in real detrimental harm to our university than any other school does for the same reasons.

Once again, just so this is crystal clear, Baylor is NOT suing (at the moment). This isn't about that. It's about refusing to waive our right to legal action not about the legal action in and of itself. There's a big distinction between suing and giving up the right to future legal action.

SicEm OUT! ;)

Can't argue with that... I don't care for Ken Starr though...

[MountainOkie]

I have no problem with Baylor getting paid to sign the waiver of litigation agreement.

But please just let this end.

I know someone else equated this process to a divorce and that's exactly how it's feeling. This is bringing out the CRAZY in each and every school involved.

I cannot wait until this is over.

[NormanPride]

So glad we've got Boren taking the high road on all this. We keep this up, and we come away as the classiest school in some of the messiest times.

[badger]

Baylor's and A&M's biggest rivalry isn't even in football.
http://www.dallasnews.com/incoming/20110314-ncaa-women.jpg.ece/BINARY/w620x413/ncaa+women.jpg

Thanks gawd for Sherri Coale :eek:

[Lott's Bandana]

Baylor Position...

Missionary?

(oh the double-entendre win)

[saucysoonergal]

No other conference will want Baylor after they way they are screaming like babies with hurt feelers.

[mehip]

I'm not sure what our end-game in all of this is, but at least we now have some bargaining power that we will use to soften our "landing" when the Big XII does collapse.

What exactly will be the bargining power? Will baylor even have a position if aTm simply agrees to pay the exit fee? Also, why didn't the baylor Einsteins and the other ugly girlfriends pull this nonsense with Neb? I think that they didn't throw this trantum last year will make it very difficult for them to argue that they are simply attempting to make the aggs follow the letter of the coference agreements.

No, this is simply about a school that has contributed almost nothing to the athletic conference relizing that it will soon end up where it belongs.

[greeksooner]

I am sure Baylor really carried about Rice,TCU, and UH in the old swc. I guess they should sue Baylor for loss of revenue.

[SicEmBaylor]

No other conference will want Baylor after they way they are screaming like babies with hurt feelers.

Yeah, I don't know how we're screaming like babies with hurt feelings. I think it's very easy to make those kinds of comments when you're in the kind of position that OU is in. When you're not, the road ahead is just a little darker.

[Lott's Bandana]

Oh...and Sic 'Em is right.

Never waive your right to sue - Law School 101

[SicEmBaylor]

I am sure Baylor really carried about Rice,TCU, and UH in the old swc. I guess they should sue Baylor for loss of revenue.

It's a completely different situation. The SWC didn't collapse because Baylor went to the Big XII. Also, Baylor hadn't just signed an agreement with the SWC committing itself to the conference for another decade before deciding to bolt.

If the other SWC school wanted to sue then UT, Aggie, and Tech were just as liable as us.

[saucysoonergal]

I thought you were going to Bama or Ole Miss now?





Yeah, it is good to be OU. ;)

[oudanny]

Go Bears!

[SicEmBaylor]

What exactly will be the bargining power? Will baylor even have a position if aTm simply agrees to pay the exit fee? Also, why didn't the baylor Einsteins and the other ugly girlfriends pull this nonsense with Neb? I think that they didn't throw this trantum last year will make it very difficult for them to argue that they are simply attempting to make the aggs follow the letter of the coference agreements.

No, this is simply about a school that has contributed almost nothing to the athletic conference relizing that it will soon end up where it belongs.

Because last year the conference remained intact after Nebraska and Colorado left. That's the difference.

To be honest, what precipitated this more than anything may have been OU's statement on Friday night that they were pursuing other conference options. Up until that point, it looked as if the conference would remain intact with the possible inclusion of new schools. When Boren made his statement, it became clear the Big XII was finished which put Baylor into high gear.

I'm not blaming OU for anything -- they're doing what they have to do. But understand that our position changed as the Big XII's viability changed.

[saucysoonergal]

The Big IX is dead. Pack your bags for the MWC!

[Brophog]

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa283/redeyefry/busux1.gif

[Widescreen]

I understand Baylor's motives. However, their actions indicate that they don't believe a university should be able to affiliate with whatever conference they desire (as long as legalities are resolved). This is a move of desperation - understandable but desperate.

[ouflak]

It is very easy for me to say that if I were a school in Conference USA or the WAC or whatever conference, that had real aspirations of moving on to better things, then I, and probably every other school in my conference, would never let Baylor within a thousand miles of joining our conference. You're going to sue any conference that a departing school joins? Screw that crap!

[S008NER]

Nothing good is going to come out of this, they should have just let it go.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Looks like Iowa St is fighting it too.

[saucysoonergal]

Baylor sucks, Clap, clap, clap!!!

[limey_sooner]

Yeah, they have to look out for their own interests, but why screw with everybody by signing up to a letter telling the SEC that there was no problem with them making an offer to ATM and then turn around and say "but if they go we might sue"

[mehip]

Because last year the conference remained intact after Nebraska and Colorado left. That's the difference..

Nonsense, this was the begining of the end and OU's announcment was simply the end of the begining. Hell, you should sue MU who seemingly started all the silly Big10 rumors.



Up until that point, it looked as if the conference would remain intact with the possible inclusion of new schools. When Boren made his statement, it became clear the Big XII was finished which put Baylor into high gear.

This is ludcrious. You can't possibly belive that the loss of a marque team like Neb and a decent team like Colorado paired with the LHN would have zero longterm ramifications. Also, why on earth would a good school want to play in a watered down big 12.

And, you didn't answer the origional question. What happens if the aggs simply pay the exit fee? What is there to sue about?

I contend that Baylor has contributed almost nothing to the finances of this conference and now that the free ride is nearing the end they are in desperation mode. Regardless of the waiver, the aggs are gone next july; get over it.

[saucysoonergal]

How many football conference games has Baylor actually won in the history of the Big XII?

[Lawton4Life]

The Baylor position involves cutting a hole in the sheet.

[soonerhubs]

Leave it to the Baptists... ;) ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

It is very easy for me to say that if I were a school in Conference USA or the WAC or whatever conference, that had real aspirations of moving on to better things, then I, and probably every other school in my conference, would never let Baylor within a thousand miles of joining our conference. You're going to sue any conference that a departing school joins? Screw that crap!

Your point would have some merit if Baylor were threatening to sue the Big XII -- Baylor does not belong to the SEC. Baylor's actions are designed to, desperately, keep the Big XII intact. Why would any other conference be scared to include Baylor when Baylor's actions are designed to preserve the conference? Again, any legal action would be directed at a conference that we do not belong to.

However, once again, that isn't even the point. Baylor is only refusing to waive its right to pursuit legal action. That's it. Nothing more or less. That's a position that every school should take; every school isn't only because those other schools have a place to go after the Big XII folds.

[spanielboy]

It's a completely different situation. The SWC didn't collapse because Baylor went to the Big XII. Also, Baylor hadn't just signed an agreement with the SWC committing itself to the conference for another decade before deciding to bolt.

If the other SWC school wanted to sue then UT, Aggie, and Tech were just as liable as us.

Typical, we rode the coattails of our betters. When Baylor signed the document on 2 SEP, the conference was still moving forward with the replacement of the Aggies with Notre Dame, Arkansas, and BYU. The Bears are coming across as hypocrites at best and more like litigating extortionists.

The agreement is not a life-binding document -- the Aggies had gone through the very slow process of getting the Big12's blessings and getting ready to pay penalties for leaving. Where is the angst towards the Sooners, Pokes, and Tigers as they too are getting ready to bolt?

[Lott's Bandana]

Hubs, your siggy looks like a SuperConference.

[SicEmBaylor]

Yeah, they have to look out for their own interests, but why screw with everybody by signing up to a letter telling the SEC that there was no problem with them making an offer to ATM and then turn around and say "but if they go we might sue"

Baylor agreed to that letter on the basis of the Big XII remaining intact and bringing in new members. What changed was OU's statements on Friday night that they were no longer committed to the Big XII..as such our position changed as well.

Furthermore, why should we care that our actions are screwing other schools when all of those other schools care not one iota if they screw us? This is everyone for themselves. It's like the sinking of the Titanic....niceties have been set aside for the sake of survival.

[spanielboy]

That's a position that every school should take; every school isn't only because those other schools have a place to go after the Big XII folds.

With TCU to block the entry to the Big East, and the other three former SWC foes (SMU, Rice, and Houston) to block Baylor into the CUSA, has Baylor looked at entry into Mountain West or the Sun Belt Conferences?

[saucysoonergal]

You guys really must have a crush on those collie worshipers. ;)

[soonerhubs]

Hubs, your siggy looks like a SuperConference.

You like it? I tried to fit more, but there are character limits.

[limey_sooner]

Baylor agreed to that letter on the basis of the Big XII remaining intact and bringing in new members. What changed was OU's statements on Friday night that they were no longer committed to the Big XII..as such our position changed as well.

Furthermore, why should we care that our actions are screwing other schools when all of those other schools care not one iota if they screw us? This is everyone for themselves. It's like the sinking of the Titanic....niceties have been set aside for the sake of survival.

Really? I didn't see that part in the letter. I must have missed it. Beyond that if the powers that be at Baylor couldn't see that letting ATM go virtually assured the destruction of the Big12, they really need to get a new board of regents that live in the real world.

[Lott's Bandana]

You like it? I tried to fit more, but there are character limits.

Read: SEC

[OULenexaman]

Baylor and ISU should just assume the position.....take it and move on....or ask for some more stimulus $$

[saucysoonergal]

SicEm, why are you not answering any of my questions?

[badger]

Baylor position truth here. (http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=14466932)

[soonerbub]

Gotta respect da bears position on this but in the end it's akin to the lateral-fest on OUr last play @ mizzou last yr. Too little too late.

[SicEmBaylor]

SicEm, why are you not answering any of my questions?

Because they're ridiculous questions.

[Sooner Cal]

OU has an army of attorneys (including me), so that means nothing.
Anyone can sue, but can you win. That's what matters and they can't.
Stanford, Northwestern and Vanderbilt do well enough, only Baylor and Duke are consistent failures at D1 football. Maybe Baylor should take the path of a Stanford or Northwestern.
This action just reinforces the fact that the Big XII is dead. Assume they were able to force the league to stay together, do you think the teams Universities would get along? I doubt it. Baylor would end up losing in a thousand different ways.
I thought I would rather have Baylor than TT in the PAC 16. Now I'm not so sure.

[SicEmBaylor]

OU has an army of attorneys (including me), so that means nothing.
Anyone can sue, but can you win. That's what matters and they can't.
Stanford, Northwestern and Vanderbilt do well enough, only Baylor and Duke are consistent failures at D1 football. Maybe Baylor should take the path of a Stanford or Northwestern.
This action just reinforces the fact that the Big XII is dead. Assume they were able to force the league to stay together, do you think the teams Universities would get along? I doubt it. Baylor would end up losing in a thousand different ways.
I thought I would rather have Baylor than TT in the PAC 16. Now I'm not so sure.

For an attorney, you should understand the distinction of our position better. Baylor brought up the spectre of legal action not as a precursor of said legal action but as a way of blocking Aggie's move to the SEC.

I don't think anyone really thinks that Baylor would win a suit against SEC. For the nth time, it isn't about filing or winning any sort of law suit. It's about Baylor refusing to WAIVE its right to sue.

[Landthief 1972]

SicEm, you're right, Baylor has every right to protect its interests. From the looks of things, you're about to be demoted from a once-respected AQ in the the BCS to the MWC or Conference USA, just when your football team looks to be getting some traction.

With that said, this talking about suing is just dragging out the inevitable...and making the transition for the other school a severe pain in the ***, which is sure as hell not doing your school any favors. If OU is getting a case of the red-*** thanks to A&M—a school that puts more butts in the seats than Baylor and has a bigger fanbase, which means more exposure for recruitment purposes—do you really think Boren is going to be thrilled about the Baptists trying to push their weight around?

It makes one feel like the schools that want to leave and get out from under the rule of Texas and their handpuppet Beebe are going to be more than willing to throw money at Baylor just to get them to shut up, rather than stay in a weakened conference that will cost them more money than that in the long run from lost revenue due to overlapping TV coverage in Texas and a bunch of also-rans like SMU and Houston likely to come in [YAWN].

On a side note: the Save Texas Football web page on Baylor's website is the worst kind of pandering imaginable. This has nothing to do with saving the Texas "football heritage." Give me a break. It's about Baylor not wanting to have to shuffle off to a weaker conference...because a patchwork Big XII is still more appealing to Baylor than a move to a mid-major conference.

There's a lot of Baylor fans pissed at A&M right now, and rightly so. But they had very little to say when Mizzou started shopping themselves to the B1G. They said nothing when Texas started the Longhorn Network (and invited A&M to be a part of it, originally). They said nothing when ESPN overpaid to broadcast the LHN and wanted to broadcast high school games, giving Texas an upper hand in recruiting. They said nothing when Nebraska saw the writing on the wall and Colorado left for cash. Why? Not because those schools were diminishing the quality of the conference by their actions. Baylor was happy to sit quietly on their thumbs as long as they could keep calling themselves members of the Big XII, even if that meant the Big XII ended up with a bunch of mid-major members, so they could continue to gleam onto the money that Texas and OU bring in with their BCS bowl cash. Now that it's come back to bite you in the ***, you want to lawyer up? Sorry, that dog don't hunt.

[Widescreen]

For an attorney, you should understand the distinction of our position better. Baylor brought up the spectre of legal action not as a precursor of said legal action but as a way of blocking Aggie's move to the SEC.

I don't think anyone really thinks that Baylor would win a suit against SEC. For the nth time, it isn't about filing or winning any sort of law suit. It's about Baylor refusing to WAIVE its right to sue.
I mentioned this in another thread, but I don't believe you can actually waive your right to sue so all of this is nonsense. Even if BU sent in a letter waiving their right to sue, they could still come back and sue with no repercussions.

[Mr. Nuke]

Gotta respect da bears position.
Still feel that way when this is ultimately an elaborate extortion attempt on Oklahoma?


Baylor was among six Big 12 schools that will not sign a waiver to allow Texas A&M to go to the Southeastern Conference following a meeting of the Big 12 presidents Wednesday afternoon, a source close to Baylor told the Tribune-Herald.

The other schools were Kansas, Kansas State, Texas Tech, Iowa State and Missouri.

If Oklahoma reaffirms its commitment to the Big 12, the schools are expected to sign the waiver that would allow the Aggies to go to the SEC without any legal action. The Sooners, who are reportedly considering a move to the Pac-12, are expected to make their decision within the next two week
http://www.wacotrib.com/news/breakingnews/Big-12-school-threatens-legal-action-as-SEC-invites-Texas-AM-to-join-league.html?abc=I0XA4pU5

[UTgradOUfan]

SicEm your posts are well written for the most part but your logic is getting ever more convoluted. That's tolerable. You lost all credibility w/ me when you went off as BU being some academic heavy-weight. School pride is great but when you slandered Tech suggesting it is academically inferior you wandered into territory which reveals your intellectual and pedagogic limitations. Stick to football. Otherwise some Rice or Southwestern grad will make it all too clear where your BU degree ranks in the hierarchy of Texas higher education.

[royalfan5]

This whole ongoing conference cluster**** makes me realize not as many people watched casino as I thought. That is how this all going to end, with baseball bats in a cornfield.

[FtwTxSooner]

Well, Baylor is not alone. Add Iowa State, and now possibly Kansas to the list of schools that will refuse to grant a waiver.

[Dan Thompson]

It must be the money.

Why would anyone leave Pepperdine, in Malibu for Waco, Tx?

I am speaking of Ken Starr, who was at Pepperdine.

[soonerbub]

Those schools have to protect themselves don't they? This was all gonna play out this way in the end. When this all comes together & we do leave the little sisters will get severance out of the pockets of the schools that leave (including OU).

It's gonna be very ugly but is any divorce not?

Sic em being in Vicksburg while this all plays out is apropo (sorry dude)

[mehip]

Still feel that way when this is ultimately an elaborate extortion attempt on Oklahoma?

If Oklahoma reaffirms its commitment to the Big 12, the schools are expected to sign the waiver that would allow the Aggies to go to the SEC without any legal action. The Sooners, who are reportedly considering a move to the Pac-12, are expected to make their decision within the next two week

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/breakingnews/Big-12-school-threatens-legal-action-as-SEC-invites-Texas-AM-to-join-league.html?abc=I0XA4pU5

So much for the moral high groud eh baylor. If this statement is true how can this be considered anything but extortion? Also, rember the last time the big 12 attempted to force some schools to re-afrim their love for the conference? Well, one of our best formal rivals ended up in the big 10 and the other in the Pac.

Before I never payed attention to baylorl; just some crappy private school. Now I want to see them get the hell beat out of them in every game they play in every sport.

[Widescreen]

n/m

[SicEmBaylor]

Still feel that way when this is ultimately an elaborate extortion attempt on Oklahoma?


http://www.wacotrib.com/news/breakingnews/Big-12-school-threatens-legal-action-as-SEC-invites-Texas-AM-to-join-league.html?abc=I0XA4pU5

We've held to the position that the Big XII should remain intact from Day 1 and have never wavered from that commitment (for obvious reasons). "Extortion" or not; this is consistent with our position.

If the Big XII is kept together even one more year with duct tape and legal threats then so be it. That gives us one more year to negotiate a better position for ourselves when it does fall apart.

[Widescreen]

We've held to the position that the Big XII should remain intact from Day 1 and have never wavered from that commitment (for obvious reasons). "Extortion" or not; this is consistent with our position.

If the Big XII is kept together even one more year with duct tape and legal threats then so be it. That gives us one more year to negotiate a better position for ourselves when it does fall apart.
What makes you think it's going to be different a year from now? Or 5 years from now? If all that it takes to keep the conference together is a threat of a frivolous suit, nothing will ever change.

[SicEmBaylor]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I don't believe you can actually waive your right to sue so all of this is nonsense. Even if BU sent in a letter waiving their right to sue, they could still come back and sue with no repercussions.

I wondered that myself. I didn't know how legally binding a "waiver" was but if you say it isn't then I believe you. Nonetheless, I think the SEC is either using it as a way of "politely" declining the Aggie invite or they just want the political cover that such a waiver might provide.

[SicEmBaylor]

What makes you think it's going to be different a year from now? Or 5 years from now? If all that it takes to keep the conference together is a threat of a frivolous suit, nothing will ever change.

I have no idea how much will be different. My hope is that one more year would give our administration extra time to find a new home for when the conference collapse; because, I know that right now we have no such home or prospects for one.

[soonerbub]

The extortion occured in '94 when Queen Ann brought em in--this is pulling the plug on a comatose league suffering permanent brain damage

[Mississippi Sooner]

This whole ongoing conference cluster**** makes me realize not as many people watched casino as I thought. That is how this all going to end, with baseball bats in a cornfield.

"You only exist out here because of me!"

[Keller Sooner]

Now I better understand why President Boren wants OU out of this mess. UT screwed the conference
and now other schools want to jump on what were good partners and try to prevent them from finding stability with another conference. Makes good sense to me!!!

[SicEmBaylor]

The extortion occured in '94 when Queen Ann brought em in--this is pulling the plug on a comatose league suffering permanent brain damage

You really really ought to know what you're talking about before posting this stuff. The political dynamics of that situation have been properly laid out time and time again and yet the "Ann Richards" angle never seems to die.

Ann Richards did not give two flying ****s about Baylor or college athletics in general. Ann Richards had virtually ZERO to do with any of it.

[SicEmBaylor]

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-09-07/only-baylor-officials-have-long-term-goals-in-mind

[Landthief 1972]

Baylor position truth here. (http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=14466932)

"Texas A&M President R. Bowen Loftin told the AP in an interview that Tuesday's email was "really a violation of trust" on the part of Beebe."

Loftin expected any different from that slimeball Beebe?

[BASSooner]

After thinking about all this, a lot of the fault is from the SEC as well.

For all we know, Texas A&M APPROACHED the SEC and took the action FIRST to try and gain membership. I'm not sure what grounds any school in the Big 12 would have to sue the SEC since the aggies were the ones that took the initiative. So it makes you wonder why that clause was in there.

Also, for Baylor, this deal to leave and compensate others IN CASE of a downfall was worked before the aggies announced their intent to leave. Otherwise,Baylor would've just blocked the aggies long ago. Why now?

[SicEmBaylor]

They all agreed and now that it has happened they have done a John Kerry flip flop. Disgusting!

Let me explain the nuance of our position once again. We committed to the letter because the remaining Big XII schools were supposedly committed to strengthening the Big XII by bringing in new schools. Baylor agreed to this because it still ensured the survival of the Big XII which has always been our position.

What changed was Boren publicly stating on Friday night that OU was looking at other conferences which meant there was no longer that commitment to strengthen the Big XII after Aggie left. As such, Baylor changed its position in regard to Aggie because the existence of the Big XII was no longer ensured by the departure of Aggie to the SEC.

This is called "nuance" not a "flip flop."

[SoonerMom2]

I lived in TX when the Big 12 was formed and Lt Gov Bullock along with Ma Richards made sure that Baylor was brought along. Not everyone on this board has lived in OK their whole life. Knew a member of the Board of Regents from one of the state schools and they were not quiet about how Bullock and Richards were putting pressure on UT to bring Baylor or the SWC was not dissolving. If anyone thinks that UT would have taken Baylor without being forced, think again.

[westbrooke]

I don't get the Baylor hatred in this thread. Are you really surprised that Baylor would act to defend itself? Are you really unable to see that it's in Baylor's interest to keep this conference together as long as possible? If the league dissolves this year and Baylor is out on their asses, or if the league dissolves next year and Baylor is out on their asses, is it so difficult to understand that Baylor wants to at least get one more year of Big 12 money and some extra time to find the softest landing spot? What do they gain by being nice when there's clearly no one else looking out for them?

If we want to leave this conference, it will be because it's in our best interests. That puts our best interests in direct opposition to Baylor's. Don't act like it's some malicious, hell-born motive to **** us over. Instead, we should consider ourselves lucky (and thank the giants of OU's past) to have the options that we do.

[SoonerMom2]

No amount of whining on the part of Baylor on here is going to make one bit of difference. Baylor agreed and now they want paid -- Ken Starr at his finest. I had little respect for Baylor before this and now have zero. Never thought I would be on the side of A&M but I am this time. This conference is dead and needs buried. Want to see Baylor try to get in another conference with Ken Starr as their President. He is toxic!

[Landthief 1972]

This is called "nuance" not a "flip flop."

I'd say a more accurate word is "posturing."

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Baylor and Iowa State are the ghetto trash of college athletics. They suck off the tit of the real revenue producers - OU and * - and don't want to give up the gravy train. They should have been in Conference USA a long time ago.

[Landthief 1972]

I don't get the Baylor hatred in this thread. Are you really surprised that Baylor would act to defend itself? Are you really unable to see that it's in Baylor's interest to keep this conference together as long as possible? If the league dissolves this year and Baylor is out on their asses, or if the league dissolves next year and Baylor is out on their asses, is it so difficult to understand that Baylor wants to at least get one more year of Big 12 money and some extra time to find the softest landing spot? What do they gain by being nice when there's clearly no one else looking out for them?

If we want to leave this conference, it will be because it's in our best interests. That puts our best interests in direct opposition to Baylor's. Don't act like it's some malicious, hell-born motive to **** us over. Instead, we should consider ourselves lucky (and thank the giants of OU's past) to have the options that we do.

Because Baylor didn't make a squeak when the other schools ran our conference into the ground, and now they're going to try and keep us nailed to this dead-end. Stay in the Big XII and take on SMU, or Houston? Fark you, Baylor.

[soonerbub]

You really really ought to know what you're talking about before posting this stuff. The political dynamics of that situation have been properly laid out time and time again and yet the "Ann Richards" angle never seems to die.

Ann Richards did not give two flying ****s about Baylor or college athletics in general. Ann Richards had virtually ZERO to do with any of it.

OK fine sorry I don't follow the intracacies of texass politics from the days gone by. You are starting to show your *** here & it's unbecoming. All I know is when the conference formed we had NEVER lost to baylor--16 years later & that's still true.

The fact is that OU was going through the worst period of football in our history when this conference was formed with the help of traitor Donnie Duncan and a buncha texass good ole boys. Now that we are "back" and standing up for OUrselves all the texass ****sticks don't know what to do.

Baylor is the furthest thing from the mind of President Boren in this mess. It's turned into a good ole pissing match between us & the 40 acres.

So quoting Doc in Tombstone: "I forgot you were still there...you may go now."

[MountainOkie]

Forget it.

Let's leave before A&M and make this entire discussion moot.

Baylor I understand your actions seem to be in your self-interest, but this is like trying to stop up a cut artery with a band-aid.

Plus I don't think one year of acrimony is going to help your position anyway.

[MRNOTDUCKS]

Sic 'Em

I hope you make a lot of noise on your way into the darkness. It's inevitable, and it's about time Baylor took its rightful place in a lesser conference.
You guys were living the dream, and you still don't want to wake up. You've ridden our coattails for too long, so this most recent move doesn't even come as a surprise.
Be real proud of the litigation efforts of your school, because everyone likes lawyers. What did Shakespeare say?

You guys are the new Mike Leach of college football. Who in their right mind would want to accept you into their conference after all of the punk-*** moves you are making right now?!

[westbrooke]

Because Baylor didn't make a squeak when the other schools ran our conference into the ground, and now they're going to try and keep us nailed to this dead-end. Stay in the Big XII and take on SMU, or Houston? Fark you, Baylor.

It's not a dead end from their perspective. If OU stays and we reassemble with SMU, Houston, or whatever school we can sucker in, we keep those TV contracts paying off for years to come. They're under no obligation to look out for our best interests, only their own. The other schools that "ran our conference into the ground" precipitated realignment talk that might have benefited them too (remember, Baylor was one of the teams rumored to be in contention for a PAC move last year). They know their *** is grass this time.

We can make all the noise we want about how we're the cash cow and Baylor is dead weight, but we've signed contracts with that dead weight. They tear up the contracts because we now find it convenient to do so? No need to whine about the necessity of negotiating with them; just negotiate and be done with it.

[Brophog]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/9/7/31e01d3a-b94e-43da-b139-9837848d9c2b.jpg

[Widescreen]

I don't think Baylor is helping themselves with a "soft landing" by threatening litigation. In fact, I suspect this will have the opposite result. Time will tell.

[Sooner_Tuf]

Some of you are crazy. The whole reason to have a conference is to give security and protection for the future of it's members. That's why it's members sign contracts to meet it's obligations. It is how member schools borrow money, they use the security provided by these commitments.

I'd never sign a waiver even if it wasn't enforceable. Because it would just add another layer to resolve before getting to the heart of the matter. If you don't think OU wouldn't sue if they were about to get abused you are sadly mistaken.

Baylor is getting screwed, they shouldn't sit there and take it. They should seek whatever remedies are available to them.

[OUNASH]

I know there are several threads on similar topics that I could post this in, but I want it in one place.

As I have said elsewhere, this is not about Baylor suing. This is about Baylor refusing to waive its right to sue which no school should do regardless of where they may land after this conference mess is over and done with. I'm sure there are fans of other schools (including this one) who are somewhat miffed about Baylor being the fly in the ointment in all of this, but Baylor is doing what it needs to do in order to secure its own interests.

Let me make this crystal clear: Baylor is doing what EVERY other school in this cluster**** mess has been doing all along, looking out for itself by using whatever resources it has available to it. UT has its money and alumni base, OU has its football prestige, other schools have their TV markets, etc. What Baylor has are trainloads of attorneys who are alumni of our fair institution. If there is anything that Baylor does well, it has always been the quiet use of its legal and political power. Don't forget that our President is one of the nation's most renowned (and by some reviled) attorneys. In all of this mess, I have really feared that our administration was sitting on its *** waiting for the dominoes to fall. It's now clear that Baylor has deftly wielded its political and legal power to put itself into a position with at least one bargaining chip (we don't have very many).

The alternative to this is to do nothing. We stand to lose a lot when the music stops in conference realignment. Standing idle and allowing that to happen uncontested is the absolute worst option. I'm not sure what our end-game in all of this is, but at least we now have some bargaining power that we will use to soften our "landing" when the Big XII does collapse. EVERY other school in the Big XII has been acting in its own interests and we are absolutely no different. We no more have an obligation to stand quiet and allow Aggie to pursuit an action that will result in real detrimental harm to our university than any other school does for the same reasons.

Once again, just so this is crystal clear, Baylor is NOT suing (at the moment). This isn't about that. It's about refusing to waive our right to legal action not about the legal action in and of itself. There's a big distinction between suing and giving up the right to future legal action.

SicEm OUT! ;)

Where was Baylor when they left Houston, Rice, SMU, TCU out in the cold from the new Big XII 16 yrs. ago. No possible lawsuit then to keep those member schools together. My how time has changed. What goes around comes around. I for one do not feel sorry for Baylor.

[SicEmBaylor]

OK fine sorry I don't follow the intracacies of texass politics from the days gone by. You are starting to show your *** here & it's unbecoming. All I know is when the conference formed we had NEVER lost to baylor--16 years later & that's still true.

The fact is that OU was going through the worst period of football in our history when this conference was formed with the help of traitor Donnie Duncan and a buncha texass good ole boys. Now that we are "back" and standing up for OUrselves all the texass ****sticks don't know what to do.

Baylor is the furthest thing from the mind of President Boren in this mess. It's turned into a good ole pissing match between us & the 40 acres.

So quoting Doc in Tombstone: "I forgot you were still there...you may go now."

I wouldn't say that I'm showing my *** here at all. I've tried to remain as civil as possible as I explain the position that Baylor has taken and why. Take note of the fact that I have not once insulted the University of Oklahoma in any of this. However, there have been a few in this thread who have clearly shown their ***.

[SicEmBaylor]

Where was Baylor when they left Houston, Rice, SMU, TCU out in the cold from the new Big XII 16 yrs. ago. No possible lawsuit then to keep those member schools together. My how time has changed. What goes around comes around. I for one do not feel sorry for Baylor.
I've already addressed this. Read the rest of the thread.

[SicEmBaylor]

Sic 'Em

I hope you make a lot of noise on your way into the darkness. It's inevitable, and it's about time Baylor took its rightful place in a lesser conference.
You guys were living the dream, and you still don't want to wake up. You've ridden our coattails for too long, so this most recent move doesn't even come as a surprise.
Be real proud of the litigation efforts of your school, because everyone likes lawyers. What did Shakespeare say?

You guys are the new Mike Leach of college football. Who in their right mind would want to accept you into their conference after all of the punk-*** moves you are making right now?!

Once again, let's make a distinction here. We aren't making these moves against the Big XII; we're making these moves in support of the Big XII. I fail to see why any other conference wouldn't want us because we're taking actions to try to save the conference we belong to.

Essentially what you're saying is that no conference should want us because some day that conference may fall apart and we may once again take actions to save that conference. Your insult makes absolutely no logical sense.

[badger]

SicEm is a good resident baylor fan. I think we have another somewhere, but he's probably off hating aggie on BF.com or something :P

If there is a fraction of a chance that the current 10 in the Big 12 can stick together and perhaps expand, then I'm all for it.

If just one of the 10 leaves, and the replacement isn't better than the one that left, then it's all over.

[JiminyChristmas]

There are NO possible replacements for Nebraska and aTm. None. Won't happen.

[Frozen Sooner]

Oh...and Sic 'Em is right.

Never waive your right to sue - Law School 101

People waive their right to sue on advice of counsel all the time. Amend that to "never waive your right to sue without getting something in return."

[pweitkem]

Sucks for Baylor, ISU and KSU. No way around it. Baylor threatening lawsuit.... my bad Sicem. Baylor not agreeing to not sue sometime in the future, is exactly what any institution in their position should do. Baylor will lose a ton of money here. Just not sure what the other options are for them at this point.

[Frozen Sooner]

I wondered that myself. I didn't know how legally binding a "waiver" was but if you say it isn't then I believe you. Nonetheless, I think the SEC is either using it as a way of "politely" declining the Aggie invite or they just want the political cover that such a waiver might provide.

Yes, you can waive your right to sue. People do it all the time. What do you think you do when you agree to an insurance settlement?

[MountainOkie]

Now that I've calmed down a little. You know, let the anger subside. This starts to strike me as just really desperate. On Baylor's part, not sicem.

[Frozen Sooner]

Keep the political stuff out of this thread, people. If it's directly related to Baylor's actions, fine, but no more discussion of Kenn Starr's role in Whitewater or random attacks on political candidates from two cycles ago.

[Sabanball]

I look for TAMU to call Baylor's bluff, indemnify Slive and the SEC, and go ahead and announce their membership to the SEC...Here's a good argument for it

http://outkickthecoverage.com/why-baylors-claims-against-the-sec-have-no-merit.php

[Widescreen]

Yes, you can waive your right to sue. People do it all the time. What do you think you do when you agree to an insurance settlement?
Doesn't that mean that you can still sue? You're just incredibly unlikely to prevail?

[Frozen Sooner]

In a technical sense, yes, you can always sue. I mean, nothing stops you from physically going down to the courthouse and filing paperwork. You'd then be dismissed on the pleadings and likely taxed costs, because such a suit would be frivolous and vexatious.

The only way you could prevail at trial is if you could show that the waiver itself was unconscionable or otherwise ineffective. That doesn't go to the actual question of whether a waiver of a right to sue is effective. They are.

[jk the sooner fan]

Doesn't that mean that you can still sue? You're just incredibly unlikely to prevail?

no, when you settle, you sign an agreement saying you won't sue - you can't, its a legally binding document/contract


i understand what baylor is doing......but i think its super chicken ****

it won't stop anything, it'll just slow down the eventual outcome

[Widescreen]

The only reason I say that is because way back when I took a business law course at TU. The professor was a well-known local judge. I vividly remember him telling us that technically, you can't sign-away your right to sue. I think that's the only thing I remember from that course. :D

[mehip]

Once again, let's make a distinction here. We aren't making these moves against the Big XII; we're making these moves in support of the Big XII. I fail to see why any other conference wouldn't want us because we're taking actions to try to save the conference we belong to.


At best this is intellectually dishonest, at worst it is an outright lie. Baylor has no interest other than preserving an income source. They did nothing to stop the last two teams that left nor do I recall them offering anything to aTm to keep them in the fold. If baylor and it's politicians truly gave a damn about the long term strength of the conference they would have spoken up earlier. But now that the conference is in it's convalescence it is behaving like a greedy and petulant grandchild that wants it's 'fair share' grand ma's money.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

umm let me just point that waiving your rights does not mean you cannot sue. A contractual agreement cannot take away the right of US constitution.

Just like every time you go river rafting and you sign a waiver. It's not worth the paper it's written on. If you fall out & are paralyzed, you have every right to sue for damages, and nobody's really going to care about the waiver you signed.

And that's court 101.

[Frozen Sooner]

The only reason I say that is because way back when I took a business law course at TU. The professor was a well-known local judge. I vividly remember him telling us that technically, you can't sign-away your right to sue. I think that's the only thing I remember from that course. :D

Yeah, my old Torts professor was very fond of asking "Can A sue?" in class and then saying "Of course he can! You can sue for anything! But will he WIN???"

Imagine that with a Turkish/Israeli accent.

[Frozen Sooner]

umm let me just point that waiving your rights does not mean you cannot sue. A contractual agreement cannot take away the right of US constitution.

Just like every time you go river rafting and you sign a waiver. It's not worth the paper it's written on. If you fall out & are paralyzed, you have every right to sue for damages, and nobody's really going to care about the waiver you signed.

And that's court 101.

Um, no.

You can waive your right to a jury trial by contract. That's a constitutional right. Yet such agreements are upheld all the time. See arbitration agreements and the multitude of cases upholding them.

You can waive your right to confront your accuser by contract. That's a constitutional right. See plea bargains and the numerous cases upholding them.

You can waive your right to not self-incriminate. Again, see plea bargains and the numerous cases upholding them.

The list goes on.

As for your rafting deal...I don't know about Oklahoma, but such waivers are upheld in Alabama all the time. I assure you that contracts waiving liability are indeed enforceable. You're also confusing constitutional rights with causes of action: there is no constitutional right to sue for tortious interference with contractual relationships. The cause of action arises under state law, not constitutional law, and if I recall correctly, not all states even recognize such a cause of action. States can condition those causes of action however they like (in a general sense).

[Doged]

I have no problem at all with Baylor's stance in this (or any of the other schools that are doing the exact same thing, though Baylor is catching the brunt of it on this board). Anyone who thinks they should just sit on their hands and do nothing is delusional. Baylor's best interest is for the Big 12 to stay together (and again, the same is true for the other schools taking the same action). They're doing what they can to band-aid it together for as long as possible.

I'd like for all those schools to sit back and let this conference die quickly, too, but to get all torked at them for not doing that is rediculously stupid, to say the least.

[Breadburner]

Maybe somebody is doing an end-around using Baylor......:fat:

[limey_sooner]

Hee. The hashtag #FailedBaylorLawsuits is now up on twitter.

[mehip]

I have no problem at all with Baylor's stance in this (or any of the other schools that are doing the exact same thing, though Baylor is catching the brunt of it on this board). Anyone who thinks they should just sit on their hands and do nothing is delusional. Baylor's best interest is for the Big 12 to stay together (and again, the same is true for the other schools taking the same action). They're doing what they can to band-aid it together for as long as possible.

I'd like for all those schools to sit back and let this conference die quickly, too, but to get all torked at them for not doing that is rediculously stupid, to say the least.

You are 100% correct. What I think is getting people fired-up about it is the 'we just want what is best for the conference' act. For me I'd prefer these hangers on just be honest and say 'we want to get paid'.

[Lott's Bandana]

Yes, you can waive your right to sue. People do it all the time. What do you think you do when you agree to an insurance settlement?

Agreed, however...at this point the "extortion" has not been identified yet, so I clipped my statement.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go fly an airliner to The Mayo Clinic so I can perform surgery while speaking Swahili.

[SicEmBaylor]

Hee. The hashtag #FailedBaylorLawsuits is now up on twitter.

Don't you have to file a lawsuit before it can fail?

[limey_sooner]

Don't you have to file a lawsuit before it can fail?

Fair point. This hashtag is also up #Big12ConcessionsToKeepOU. If this is all about self interest what is baylor and the rest of the dwarves willing to give up for OU to save their collective asses.

[SicEmBaylor]

Baghdad Beebe just issued a far more eloquent statement saying what I've been trying to explain here all day:
“This is the first time to my knowledge that a conference has been requested to waive any legal claims toward another conference for any damages suffered with a membership change. The Big 12 Conference was asked by Texas A&M University and the Southeastern Conference to waive any such claim to help facilitate Texas A&M’s departure from the Conference without any consideration to the Big 12. Although they were not obligated to do so, the Big 12 Board of Directors decided to accommodate that request as it relates to The Big 12 Conference, Inc., which is reflected in the September 2 letter sent to SEC commissioner Mike Slive. However, the waiver did not and could not bind the individual member institutions’ governing boards to waive institutional rights. If the departure of Texas A&M results in significant changes in the Big 12 membership, several institutions may be severely affected after counting on revenue streams from contracts that were approved unanimously by our members, including Texas A&M. In some cases, members reasonably relied on such approval to embark on obligations that will cost millions of dollars.”

[Lott's Bandana]

"...that will cost me my job.”


Google Translate is teh allsome.

[Frozen Sooner]

Oooh. Reasonable reliance. Second Restatement § 90 speak for "I'm about to get ****ed in court".

[westbrooke]

You are 100% correct. What I think is getting people fired-up about it is the 'we just want what is best for the conference' act. For me I'd prefer these hangers on just be honest and say 'we want to get paid'.

Who has actually said that? You called out SicEm for intellectual dishonesty (at best) for saying they are working for the conference rather than against it, but that in no way implies that their motives are purely altruistic, as far as I can tell. Working to save the conference is the same thing as preserving an income source. It also preserves prestige, access to better recruits, publicity, etc. - all the things we want for ourselves. The difference is that we can find those things elsewhere. Baylor and the other schools speaking up now have varying but decidedly less ability than we do to find those benefits elsewhere. Good on them for fighting for their place at the table.

[SicEmBaylor]

More official word from Baylor:


Since the news of a possible Texas-A&M-to-the-SEC move broke about a month ago, Baylor officials have been consistent in their stance and message, emphasizing the importance of not throwing away successful, historic rivalries for the sake of bigger TV contracts.

Recently, it has looked as if college athletics was about to turn into a free-for-all, with conferences raiding one another just to avoid being raided themselves. Lost in the midst of this mad scramble for the next lucrative TV contract is any sense of what’s best for the universities involved. Absent from the discussion is any consideration of the welfare of the student-athletes (LINK???), the best interests of the fans (who watch historic rivalries go by the wayside), the effect on the home states involved (which have much to lose in the shuffle), and the impact such hysteria can have on the very essence of the collegiate football experience.

At the moment, the carousel’s turning has at least slowed as regards the Big 12. Currently, SEC leaders are awaiting written assurances from each Big 12 school that they will agree to waive their institutional rights regarding future conference expansion and any negative impact that might have on member institutions. In a statement issued earlier today, Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe made it clear that each of the schools in the Big 12 retains its individual rights. He further noted that significant changes to the Big 12 membership could negatively affect Big 12 institutions that were counting on revenue streams from contracts that were previously approved unanimously by Big 12 members, including Texas A&M. I have yet to hear of any Big 12 institution that has signed such a waiver.

As always, Baylor officials are working hard with the university’s best interests in mind. It’s important that Baylor remain on the national stage, so that people nationwide get to learn about BU and all that it has to offer — as they did with the big win over TCU Friday, and the men’s basketball team’s Elite Eight run, and the women’s basketball national championship, and … well, you get the idea.

But there’s something bigger than just Baylor’s interests at stake here. This is about doing the right thing. There are real costs when universities begin to break commitments and contracts (beyond simply setting a bad example for the young minds on campus) — up to and including anarchy in the world of college athletics.

Baylor is standing up for itself and for the integrity of college athletics, and people are starting to take notice. The Sporting News called Baylor “the closest thing to a hero at this point,” adding that BU “is fighting to keep alive a workable business that has value to literally millions of people.” CBS Sports applauded Baylor for speaking out. CNN has picked up the story. A Yahoo! Sports headline today reads “College sports realignment capers a study in greed.”

In short, Baylor is standing up for our university, but also for something bigger. Our leaders have stepped into a space that few would have the courage to enter, but one that is gaining traction. Of that, we can all be proud.

Sic ’em, Baylor!

[SicEmBaylor]

Who has actually said that? You called out SicEm for intellectual dishonesty (at best) for saying they are working for the conference rather than against it, but that in no way implies that their motives are purely altruistic, as far as I can tell. Working to save the conference is the same thing as preserving an income source. It also preserves prestige, access to better recruits, publicity, etc. - all the things we want for ourselves. The difference is that we can find those things elsewhere. Baylor and the other schools speaking up now have varying but decidedly less ability than we do to find those benefits elsewhere. Good on them for fighting for their place at the table.

Exactly. I never said that Baylor is doing this out of the goodness of its heart and for "God, King, and Conference." Quite the contrary, I have said that all of this is an attempt to leverage the absolute best possible scenario for ourselves. Whether that be money, finding a new conference, or preserving the existing Big XII.

Baylor has felt from Day 1 that what is best for us is for the Big XII to stay together. I think the whole "Save Texas Football" is pretty ancillary to the ultimate goal of preserving revenue and prestige but nonetheless...we've been working to preserve the Big XII. I understand the desire of other institutions to find a new conference, but my point here is that they are looking out for their own self-interests just as we are and have every right to do.

[mehip]

Who has actually said that? You called out SicEm for intellectual dishonesty (at best) for saying they are working for the conference rather than against it, but that in no way implies that their motives are purely altruistic, as far as I can tell. Working to save the conference is the same thing as preserving an income source. It also preserves prestige, access to better recruits, publicity, etc. - all the things we want for ourselves. The difference is that we can find those things elsewhere. Baylor and the other schools speaking up now have varying but decidedly less ability than we do to find those benefits elsewhere. Good on them for fighting for their place at the table.

Fair enough. Perhaps my perception is off or simply biased by my growing disgust with the politics involved in keeping this dysfunctional conference together.

But, I still think that their position will not lead to anything except further acrimony and the best and most logical move will be to simply let those who wish to leave to do so. If there are pre-agreed financial penalties than those should be enforced and leave it at that.

[EDIT]
I've asked this earlier and it wasn't addressed. But if the aTm machines simply pay the exit fees does Baylor even have a realistic reason to litigate. Further, what will they do if the aTm machines indemnify the sec will Baylor and it's silly politicians attempt to sue a them? I sincerely hope that the aggs do this.

[Widescreen]

More official word from Baylor:
That sounds very high-minded but everyone with a brain knows that most of it is horse manure. Doing the right thing is allowing schools to affiliate with the conferences of their choice. They need to just admit that this is a play for self-preservation AND THAT'S ALL IT IS. At least their statements would be credible at that point.

[SicEmBaylor]

That sounds very high-minded but everyone with a brain knows that most of it is horse manure. Doing the right thing is allowing schools to affiliate with the conferences of their choice. They need to just admit that this is a play for self-preservation AND THAT'S ALL IT IS. At least their statements would be credible at that point.

It is a play for self-preservation. I should clarify though, that statement didn't come from the Administration -- it came from the Alumni Association.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

I know you're Mr Alabama 3L but both of my parents are judges. waivers aren't worth the paper they are signed on.

Edit: this is a generality for examples like the rafting one, at least in oklahoma. and i have no idea how it would apply here.

[3DSooner]

What these asshats from Baylor don't seem to understand is the fact that the Baylor "position" is gonna be the bend over position since no conference is gonna want their sorry asses after this! This is going to backfire on them so hard that they will never understand how this worked against them until it is too friggen late!
Good luck losers!

[Frozen Sooner]

I know you're Mr Alabama 3L but both of my parents are judges. waivers aren't worth the paper they are signed on.

Well, in that case...:rolleyes:

[PLaw]

I know there are several threads on similar topics that I could post this in, but I want it in one place.

As I have said elsewhere, this is not about Baylor suing. This is about Baylor refusing to waive its right to sue which . . .
SicEm OUT! ;)

Well said, Sic 'em and well played by the Baylor administration. All of the ire from TAMU, the SEC, and others should be towards Austin, not Waco. However, if Baylor originally agreed with the Big 12 position, then renegged on that position. Well, that creates a whole new discussion.

Boomer

[Okla-homey]

Baylor should just face facts. They are now, and will always be, a permanent football cellar-dweller. They should just deal with it and see if C-USA will take them in when the dust settles.

[Veritas]

Oooh. Reasonable reliance. Second Restatement § 90 speak for "I'm about to get ****ed in court".
Gawd you're so ****ing sexy when you talk legal.

Can you explain what the hell that all means?

[Frozen Sooner]

Gawd you're so ****ing sexy when you talk legal.

Can you explain what the hell that all means?

When you start talking about your reasonable reliance on someone else's promises, a lot of the time you're setting up a promissory estoppel claim. It's a way to imply a contract in law that doesn't exist in fact: someone promised they'd do something for free, and you relied on that promise and incurred expenses as a result. The Restatements of the Law are legal treatises that attempt to encapsulate the state of the common law. The Restatement (Second) of Contracts § 90 is the section that deals with promissory estoppel.

I think what he's getting at here is that they reasonably relied on Texas A&M's promise that they wouldn't exercise the liquidated damages clause of the Big 12 contract, and stand to lose a bunch of money as a result of A&M's reneging. That's just off the top of my head, though. There's a fairly obvious problem with this as a promissory estoppel claim: you're only entitled to restitution, not expectancy, under promissory estoppel.

Anyhow, promissory estoppel claims are notorious losers in actual court.

[Jdog]

I am sure Baylor really carried about Rice,TCU, and UH in the old swc. I guess they should sue Baylor for loss of revenue.

Sorry sicEm but Baylor football has never really been a good fit in the conference! Granted you have good women's bball and a top notch track program but you have to admit, it's bad when you can't draw more bear fans to yourhome games than the visiting team does

[Jdog]

SicEm you're a good person and I really truly mean no harm to you. You've been very respectful but you have to understand that the Sooners have a position too. We have a very strong football brand to protect. If you don't think that tu could bolt once OU commits then your not thinking straight. I can't help but think that TU playing Baylor to protect LHN.

[SicEmBaylor]

Sorry sicEm but Baylor football has never really been a good fit in the conference! Granted you have good women's bball and a top notch track program but you have to admit, it's bad when you can't draw more bear fans to yourhome games than the visiting team does

When has that ever happened even in the history of the Big XII? That's an Aggie legend that has never been true.

[SicEmBaylor]

SicEm you're a good person and I really truly mean no harm to you. You've been very respectful but you have to understand that the Sooners have a position too. We have a very strong football brand to protect. If you don't think that tu could bolt once OU commits then your not thinking straight. I can't help but think that TU playing Baylor to protect LHN.

What does the University of Tulsa have to do with any of this?

I absolutely believe and understand OU's position in all of this. I have no problem with it. OU is going to do what OU needs to do. But what YOU have to understand is that we are no different than OU in trying to protect our interests.

My biggest criticism of OU is the timing of Boren's statement last Friday night.

[SoonerMom2]

Dean Blevins just reported on Channel 9/10 news that Baylor caved and A&M going to the SEC.

[Frozen Sooner]

Not saying it isn't true, but I wouldn't trust Blevins on anything saying anyone's going to the SEC.

[Widescreen]

Not saying it isn't true, but I wouldn't trust Blevins on anything saying anyone's going to the SEC.
Not unless he attached a percentage to it.

[Jdog]

It's about spin - and i guess Boren had to show some of OUs cards......and you must not be from Texas - because TU is how most tech smu tcu houston and aggie fans refer to the shorthorns.

[Widescreen]

Dean Blevins just reported on Channel 9/10 news that Baylor caved and A&M going to the SEC.
I thought it was more than Baylor holding this up.

[SicEmBaylor]

It's about spin - and i guess Boren had to show some of OUs cards......and you must not be from Texas - because TU is how most tech smu tcu houston and aggie fans refer to the shorthorns.

In all of my years, I have never heard anyone but Aggie refer to UT as "TU."

[silverwheels]

Aggy.

[SoonerMom2]

I thought it was more than Baylor holding this up.

Think we have been getting some bad info all day of info that was planted on purpose as The Oklahoman has that OU was not put in a position of having to stay to allow A&M to leave and Tech has said they were not holding it up.

Looks like in the final analysis that OU was the ONLY ONE who agreed to sign the waiver but now others are saying they wouldn't sue.

Who knows the truth -- Blevins had no percentages of what was happening.

[Sooner_Havok]

Anyhow, promissory estoppel claims are notorious losers in actual court.

Yet they always win in the case books. lol.

[Jdog]

It Must have caught on - though most of the people that know who have the mentioned affiliation are older than 50

[DenverSooner751]

Wow, really? That shocks me. Growing up in Dallas all I ever heard aggie call texass as TU because they"re not "The University of Texas" because that would imply they were first or better or some shiz....

Totally respect what you are saying about Baylor protecting their interests, however, it's a futile effort long term. It may provide leverage short term but long term, Baylor will....WILL be left in the dust, so all this posturing and political wrangling isn't exactly accomplishing anything other than short term chest pounding about legal knowledge. The time will come and the knockout blow will be delivered, so it's not exactly a strategic move....purely tactical.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[AlboSooner]

Baylor is irrelevant. Their 15 seconds of fame will die in a bowl of fire if OU heads west. <no dancing>

[prrriiide]

How many football conference games has Baylor actually won in the history of the Big XII?

Here is a link to Baylor's records vs. all conferences since joining (sponging off of) the BigXII:

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/confres.pl?start=1996&end=2010&team=Baylor&limit=500

Of note is the 18-102 record vs. BigXII opponents. Also their 0-1 bowl record. The lone bowl being the Meineke Car Care Bowl of Texas, which paid the conference a whopping $750,000. This after making $5-10 million a year off of the backs of other BigXII schools for 15 years.

We didn't want them in the first place, they have contributed next to nothing to the conference coffers, they have leeched off of schools like OU since the league's inception, and DO NOT DESERVE a place in an AQ conference. PERIOD.

[DenverSooner751]

How many football conference games has Baylor actually won in the history of the Big XII?

Here is a link to Baylor's records vs. all conferences since joining (sponging off of) the BigXII:

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/confres.pl?start=1996&end=2010&team=Baylor&limit=500

Of note is the 18-102 record vs. BigXII opponents. Also their 0-1 bowl record. The lone bowl being the Meineke Car Care Bowl of Texas, which paid the conference a whopping $750,000. This after making $5-10 million a year off of the backs of other BigXII schools for 15 years.

We didn't want them in the first place, they have contributed next to nothing to the conference coffers, they have leeched off of schools like OU since the league's inception, and DO NOT DESERVE a place in an AQ conference. PERIOD.

THIS

[Jdog]

When has that ever happened even in the history of the Big XII? That's an Aggie legend that has never been true.

I've been to 5 OU games I Waco and not once do I recall seeing more bear fans at a game than Sooner fans. At 2 games I actually sat on the press box side with a bunch of sooner fans.

[prrriiide]

Your point would have some merit if Baylor were threatening to sue the Big XII -- Baylor does not belong to the SEC. Baylor's actions are designed to, desperately, keep the Big XII intact. Why would any other conference be scared to include Baylor when Baylor's actions are designed to preserve the conference? Again, any legal action would be directed at a conference that we do not belong to.

However, once again, that isn't even the point. Baylor is only refusing to waive its right to pursuit legal action. That's it. Nothing more or less. That's a position that every school should take; every school isn't only because those other schools have a place to go after the Big XII folds.

You're missing the point...
Say Baylor wanted to join C-USA after suing the SEC to prevent the exit of aTm.Say there is another school in C-USA that has their eyes on the Big East.
With Baylor's litigious reputation, do you not think that that school would move to block Baylor from C-USA in order to prevent a repeat legal performance when they want to make the move to an AQ conference?

[SoonerMom2]

From the various sites, the consensus is that it was orchestrated by Ken Starr from Baylor along with the untrue leaks to the Waco paper. That comes from sites unrelated. The idea that OU would have to commit to stay to allow A&M to go was debunked by OU tonight. That report came out of Waco on OU. It looks like Starr is doing what he always does -- gets someone to leak.

They tried to rope TT into the suing threat but they were having none of that as Tech denied they were involved. Starr's arrogance got the best of him and he thought he was more powerful than he was.

Who in their right mind chose him to be Bayor's President? He is really made a mess of this and what conference would want him in their conference? He forgot he wasn't a special prosecutor. Who is going to trust Baylor now as long as Starr is the President?

[Sooner_Havok]

Baylor is doing what Baylor has to do. Is it sleazy? Yeah. Is it underhanded? Yeah. Does is reflect poorly on the University? Yeah. Do they have a choice? No.

We look at this from a very safe position. If the Big 12-2-1 dies, we head north or west. We have a home waiting for us. One with marquee games, and lots of money. State is in a pretty good position too. They know big brother is looking out for them, and that the will get a nice home too. But what does Baylor have? Nothing. No soft place to land, no truck loads of cash, no nationally televised games. Do you blame them for doing anything in their power to keep this gravy train running?

Has Baylor been a net drain on this conference, yeah probably. But with around 12,000 undergrads enrolled, I don't think much should have been expected from them. Yes, they got in the Big 12 because of texas politics, and they drained the coffers of some money, and never added anything back. So? All Baylor knows is that it was getting lots of money, and now there is a very real threat of it getting a lot less money. So, it is fighting tooth-and-nail to keep what it has. Whether it deserved it in the first place or not, it had it, and it doesn't want to lose it.

I don't agree with what they are doing, but I don't fault them for it.

[rainiersooner]

I think whining about Baylor's conduct is lame. Good for them. They're using the leverage they have. I've personally got zero interest in who is right and wrong, because I don't believe that is how decisions get made. The only thing that matters is who has the power. At the end of the day, I doubt Baylor can stop this. I'm quite certain that if A&M agreed to indemnify the SEC for any lawsuit by Baylor, they would be accepted. Baylor is playing the only card they have and this is what they should be doing. In my humble opinion, those of you piling on them for doing this are being hypocrites because if your alma mater was faced with this situation, you would want it to do the same thing.

[btb916]

I know you're Mr Alabama 3L but both of my parents are judges. waivers aren't worth the paper they are signed on.

Edit: this is a generality for examples like the rafting one, at least in oklahoma. and i have no idea how it would apply here.

Your example is wrong and I guarantee you've misinterpreted your parents' statements to you.

If you are actually interested in learning the law, check out the case 1998 OK CIV APP 17 on www.oscn.net. If you sign a waiver at a skydiving facility (which is what happened in that case, but the same would apply to river rafting), the waiver is valid to a certain extent -- that being that you can't waive your right to sue against a person for willfully injuring you, but you can waive your right to sue for ordinary negligence.

That is a bit different than what Baylor refuses to do. But, yes, you CAN waive your right to sue, especially if you get something good in return.

tl;dr? You're wrong.

Edit: Here's a flavor of the court's holding:

"The Oklahoma Supreme Court has long recognized that exculpatory contracts, i.e., a contract to avoid liability for damages also known as a “waiver” or “release,” may be valid and enforceable."

[SicEmBaylor]

Spare me the righteous indignation. I totally understand OU fans being upset about this, but it has nothing to do with some mythical idea that everyone is taking the high road and sleazy-*** Baylor is ruining it for everyone. Please. Seriously?

Friends (and I say that with all sincerity), let's be honest with ourselves. You're pissed off because YOUR administration had plans to pack up and leave to the Pac-12 and now Baylor has created a situation in which it may not be as easy for you to do so. That's why you're pissed. You're pissed because YOUR school acted in its self interest and as a result OUR school acted in its self interest and then you're pissed at us for doing what you've been doing all along.

There's a lot of hypocrisy here. Let's at least be honest.

[Sooner_Havok]

Spare me the righteous indignation. I totally understand OU fans being upset about this, but it has nothing to do with some mythical idea that everyone is taking the high road and sleazy-*** Baylor is ruining it for everyone. Please. Seriously?

Friends (and I say that with all sincerity), let's be honest with ourselves. You're pissed off because YOUR administration had plans to pack up and leave to the Pac-12 and now Baylor has created a situation in which it may not be as easy for you to do so. That's why you're pissed. You're pissed because YOUR school acted in its self interest and as a result OUR school acted in its self interest and then you're pissed at us for doing what you've been doing all along.

There's a lot of hypocrisy here. Let's at least be honest.

Couldn't agree more SicEm. Do I like what Baylor is doing? No, but I understand why they are doing it completely. All the talk about whether Baylor ever deserved its place in the Big 12 is moot, they got in, and they enjoyed the money the conference gave them. Now they are being told the money is about to stop, so hell yeah they are fighting back.

[Sooner_Havok]

I mean honestly, what do people expect Baylor to do? Roll over and say "Thanks for the ride, we'll wave at you from Conference USA"

[Texas Golfer]

Can't argue with that... I don't care for Ken Starr though...

I had the privilege of spending some time with Ken Starr last football season. I was wearing my OU gear. It was great talking with him.

[LiveLaughLove]

Baylor is being sanctimonious and hypocritical. Texan in other words.

Nebraska had it right from the beginning of the creation of the Big XII. The Big 8 saved the SWC schools (didnt hear Baylor crying for Texas tradition on Houston, TCU, SMU and Rices sakes), and Texas immediately began pushing it's weight around.

Wasn't long and the conference championships were moved from KC to Dallas. The conference offices, the same. And on and on.

I have hated the Big XII from it's inception because I wanted nothing to do with the Texas schools. Still don't.

I don't root for the Dallas Cowboys, the Texas Rangers, the Houston Astro's, the Stars, or any other single thing from south of the Red River.

I don't give a rats about aTm (fanatics insecure about their sexuality), Tech (ok until they got rid of Leach), Baylor (go screw yourselves you insignificant little insignificances), or Texas (The Plague of College Football, The Kings of Underachievement, where tons of money and top recruiting classes go to die for an *).

Don't mess with Texas indeed. They might bully, bail, or bawl like a baby if you do. You all do the Alamo proud, in a not sort of way.

We have been in a Zombie conference since UNL and CU did the smartest thing and bolted. Now, we have a chance to kill the zombie, and a freaking SWC school that has done nothing but syphon money from the very beginning until now (note they didn't take their unearned earnings and upgrade their facilities to actually try and compete), is preventing the proverbial stake through the heart! Die you beast of a conference! and all of you Texas demons go back to the darkness from whence you came!

That is all.

Oh one other thing. Hey OSU fans, how does it feel to know you truly are subordinate to OU and will just be glad to get to tag along with the Sooners? In case, you are actually postulating an answer OSU fans, the question is rhetorical (that means the answer is so obvious you really don't need to answer).

Now. That is all.

[SicEmBaylor]

Baylor is being sanctimonious and hypocritical. Texan in other words.

Nebraska had it right from the beginning of the creation of the Big XII. The Big 8 saved the SWC schools (didnt hear Baylor crying for Texas tradition on Houston, TCU, SMU and Rices sakes), and Texas immediately began pushing it's weight around.

Wasn't long and the conference championships were moved from KC to Dallas. The conference offices, the same. And on and on.

I have hated the Big XII from it's inception because I wanted nothing to do with the Texas schools. Still don't.

I don't root for the Dallas Cowboys, the Texas Rangers, the Houston Astro's, the Stars, or any other single thing from south of the Red River.

I don't give a rats about aTm (fanatics insecure about their sexuality), Tech (ok until they got rid of Leach), Baylor (go screw yourselves you insignificant little insignificances), or Texas (The Plague of College Football, The Kings of Underachievement, where tons of money and top recruiting classes go to die for an *).

Don't mess with Texas indeed. They might bully, bail, or bawl like a baby if you do. You all do the Alamo proud, in a not sort of way.

We have been in a Zombie conference since UNL and CU did the smartest thing and bolted. Now, we have a chance to kill the zombie, and a freaking SWC school that has done nothing but syphon money from the very beginning until now (note they didn't take their unearned earnings and upgrade their facilities to actually try and compete), is preventing the proverbial stake through the heart! Die you beast of a conference! and all of you Texas demons go back to the darkness from whence you came!

That is all.

Oh one other thing. Hey OSU fans, how does it feel to know you truly are subordinate to OU and will just be glad to get to tag along with the Sooners? In case, you are actually postulating an answer OSU fans, the question is rhetorical (that means the answer is so obvious you really don't need to answer).

Now. That is all.

Dear Mr. LiveLaughLove: You're doing the "laughing" and "loving" parts all wrong.

[ouflak]

You're going to sue any conference that a departing school joins?
Your point would have some merit if Baylor were threatening to sue the Big XII -- Baylor does not belong to the SEC.

Actually my point would have merit if Baylor were threatening to sue the SEC, which they are.


Baylor's actions are designed to, desperately, keep the Big XII intact. Why would any other conference be scared to include Baylor when Baylor's actions are designed to preserve the conference? Again, any legal action would be directed at a conference that we do not belong to.

Exactly. Sans lawsuit, Baylor ends up in a conference full of teams that are going to be doing everything they can to move to an AQ conference. The last thing *any* of those teams need is to have that opportunity quashed or impaired, when they finally have the real chance to grab the brass ring and move on up. No conference is going to invite that into their system. Not one.



However, once again, that isn't even the point. Baylor is only refusing to waive its right to pursuit legal action. That's it. Nothing more or less. That's a position that every school should take; every school isn't only because those other schools have a place to go after the Big XII folds.

No that isn't 'it'. They are taking an action to snub A&M's move to another conference and presumably (debatably) better things.
If Baylor wasn't bragging about their loads of lawyer alumni, then maybe that would be it. But it's very clear what's going on here. They are stopping a team from moving on. Good luck going independent, because when this conference finally (and shortly) gasps its last breath and your phone calls to the MWC, WAC, Conference USA, Sunbelt, etc... go unanswered, you're going have to do some creative scheduling keep yourself relevant.

[LiveLaughLove]

Dear Mr. LiveLaughLove: You're doing the "laughing" and "loving" parts all wrong.

Really? I thought some of it was worth a small chuckle at least. A smile maybe?

As for Loving, I love me some Sooners, and you guys are standing in our way from getting on down the road.

And worse, you (your school) are actually trying to justify it as something honorable or to be commended, when it's simply a crab bucket ploy. You want everyone to stay in the bucket if you have to do so. Nothing honorable about that. Nor noble, nor heroic.

I would have more respect for it if you guys just said, hey we want to keep our cash cow that we have never earned. Sucks, but thats what we want.

[prrriiide]

those of you piling on them for doing this are being hypocrites because if your alma mater was faced with this situation, you would want it to do the same thing.

Non-sequitir. I would never attend a school that didn't play at least .500 ball.

[Texas Golfer]

While Baylor hasn't represented well in football, they have in other sports. Being that football is king, we have a tendency to forget their national championships in other sports in the last decade. I understand Sic Em's position. We feel moving to the Pac-16 is in our best interest and are doing what we can to make that happen, Baylor feels that keeping the Big XII intact is in their best interest. Will they succeed? Probably not. But I don't fault them for trying.

[SicEmBaylor]

Non-sequitir. I would never attend a school that didn't play at least .500 ball.

Clearly I should have given the relative football prowess of the various institutions that I considered attending more due consideration. ;)

[DenverSooner751]

Dear Mr. LiveLaughLove: You're doing the "laughing" and "loving" parts all wrong.

Really? I thought some of it was worth a small chuckle at least. A smile maybe?

As for Loving, I love me some Sooners, and you guys are standing in our way from getting on down the road.

And worse, you (your school) are actually trying to justify it as something honorable or to be commended, when it's simply a crab bucket ploy. You want everyone to stay in the bucket if you have to do so. Nothing honorable about that. Nor noble, nor heroic.

I would have more respect for it if you guys just said, hey we want to keep our cash cow that we have never earned. Sucks, but thats what we want.

THIS!

I respect the whole protecting their interests peice. But in doing so, one would expect the merit of the debate to come forward.....the merit is money.

[delhalew]

Spare me the righteous indignation. I totally understand OU fans being upset about this, but it has nothing to do with some mythical idea that everyone is taking the high road and sleazy-*** Baylor is ruining it for everyone. Please. Seriously?

Friends (and I say that with all sincerity), let's be honest with ourselves. You're pissed off because YOUR administration had plans to pack up and leave to the Pac-12 and now Baylor has created a situation in which it may not be as easy for you to do so. That's why you're pissed. You're pissed because YOUR school acted in its self interest and as a result OUR school acted in its self interest and then you're pissed at us for doing what you've been doing all along.

There's a lot of hypocrisy here. Let's at least be honest.

Let's ne honest about another thing. The tenuous relationships in this conference have been damaged beyond repair. Trying to force this union to remain, VIA threat of litigation, is going to fail.

Not enough duct tape and bailing wire on earth.

[FaninAma]

SicEm your posts are well written for the most part but your logic is getting ever more convoluted. That's tolerable. You lost all credibility w/ me when you went off as BU being some academic heavy-weight. School pride is great but when you slandered Tech suggesting it is academically inferior you wandered into territory which reveals your intellectual and pedagogic limitations. Stick to football. Otherwise some Rice or Southwestern grad will make it all too clear where your BU degree ranks in the hierarchy of Texas higher education.



This. Academic smack is so weak and I was disappointed in Sic em's decision to stoop to this level. He is usually pretty level headed but I guess the emotions of this issue are clouding his judgement.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Spare me the righteous indignation. I totally understand OU fans being upset about this, but it has nothing to do with some mythical idea that everyone is taking the high road and sleazy-*** Baylor is ruining it for everyone. Please. Seriously?

Friends (and I say that with all sincerity), let's be honest with ourselves. You're pissed off because YOUR administration had plans to pack up and leave to the Pac-12 and now Baylor has created a situation in which it may not be as easy for you to do so. That's why you're pissed. You're pissed because YOUR school acted in its self interest and as a result OUR school acted in its self interest and then you're pissed at us for doing what you've been doing all along.

There's a lot of hypocrisy here. Let's at least be honest.

Let's be honest about another thing Sic, Baylor is now like Geronimo trying to keep the white man off his land. It may be a valiant effort but you're pissing in the wind of history. Ken Starr can threaten to sue everybody from Mike Slive to the Pope but it ain't going to stop any of this. My guess is aTm is having their SEC! SEC! party within a week.

[NormanPride]

Baylor is stupid. Instead of trying to keep a dead conference around, they should be parlaying their ties to Texas or A&M or whatever to get into another good conference. Starr is an idiot that doesn't know what the hell he is doing. I understand his motives and appreciate them, but his actions do absolutely nothing but burn bridges in the long run.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Baylor is also now shills for the LHN.

Put that on your post toasties and swallow hard baylor fan. Both of you.

[ouflak]

If I were Baylor, I would have been in talks with Conference USA, the MWC and the Big East the whole time. Once A&M announced, I would have taken the best option of these three and made my own announcement. Then spent the next ten years building up my athletics to be on par with any AQ school in the country so that they either get to move up (if in Conf USA, MWC) or never have to worry about losing that position (if in the Big East).

Now... what conference, especially a conference whose teams have aspirations of moving upwards competitively, will take a school whose cover letter for their resume states, "We will sue or threaten to sue any conference, should they take a school from a conference we are in."?

Adding Baylor to your conference puts up one more barrier to your entry to better things, and those smaller schools already have enough barriers.

I think Baylor has played this very self-destructively. Time will tell I suppose though.

[limey_sooner]

If I were Baylor, I would have been in talks with Conference USA, the MWC and the Big East the whole time. Once A&M announced, I would have taken the best option of these three and made my own announcement.

This says Baylor is already talking to the big east. "Baylor administrators have had discussions with the Big East and are confident the league would extend an invitation to the Bears if the Big 12 implodes, a source with knowledge of the conversations told Yahoo! Sports on Wednesday night."

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=Ajg3hJjWKQuiuCP9EASGKuvevbYF?slug=jn-king_baylor_plan_b_big_east_090811

[BaylorGuy314]

If I were Baylor, I would have been in talks with Conference USA, the MWC and the Big East the whole time.

From everything I've heard, Baylor has been talking with those conferences. However, the first two would result in over $90 million in lost revenue ($10M less/yr x 9 years) and the third was far from a shoe-in.

That being said, Baylor has never threatened to sue A&M or OU or anyone else. They have just refused to sign away their right to potentially, one day, sue the SEC. No other conference has ever required such a document and it does not benefit Baylor- nor anyone else in the Big 12- to sign it. Never sign away your rights for nothing. That's all Baylor has done. And it's the same thing several other Big 12 schools have done.

[saucysoonergal]

But your save Texas football website is a joke, right?

[NormanPride]

Right. And I'm sure they're just going to sit on those rights and do nothing, considering that they said they'd sign them away if OU stayed. :offended:

[saucysoonergal]

I, for one, am sick of all of this Texas drama. What a bunch of Drama Queens!!!

It looks like the Nebbish were right. I apologize to Veritas for giving him such a hard time. I think distance from these drama queens might be just what we need at this time!

[NormanPride]

Don't apologize to him... It'll just go to his head.

[saucysoonergal]

Well, I did ride him pretty hard in some spek comments about being a quitter. I now see the bug-eaters reasoning now, and they were 100% correct!

[badger]

As much as I think TCU would hate to give Baylor a parachute as they're falling out of the Big 12 plane, those two schools need their annual "Bitter Bowl." It is just too much fun.

[NormanPride]

I did not need to know about any sordid spek riding you were doing with our resident bugeater. That was TMI.


;)

[saucysoonergal]

Well, it was all green, if that helps. ;)

[Tear Down This Wall]

Baylor blows. The only reason they are in the Big 12 is Bob Bullock and Ann Richards blackmailed A&M and Texas by threatening to withhold their state funding.

Fortunately, Texas was run by idiots like Richards and Bullock only a short while longer. Now, properly, no one cares to step in politically.

Bullock and Richards are dead, and so is Baylor as an Automatic Qualifying school.

Hypocrites to the core, starting a website about saving Texas football when they damn well did nothing about SMU, TCU, Rice, and Houston getting shafted when the SWC collapsed.

Screw Baylor. C-USA has their old TEXAS SWC-mates. In fact, they'll have more TEXAS conference mates than they ever had in the Big 12.

Buttfeathers.

[Lott's Bandana]

Whorn just signed the waiver letting aTm go, joining the Sooners. (espn)

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

Baylor has their heads in the clouds if they thought OU was going to stay in the Big XII with A&M leaving.

[saucysoonergal]

Buh, bye, Baylor.

[sooner_born_1960]

I thought the Baylor position was "on their knees"

[saucysoonergal]

I thought the Baylor position was "on their knees"

Thats just in the required Chapel in the A.M.

[bearfan08]

As much as I think TCU would hate to give Baylor a parachute as they're falling out of the Big 12 plane, those two schools need their annual "Bitter Bowl." It is just too much fun.
I would not mind one bit playing TCU every year in the Big East even though I believe that conference is not long for this world.

A couple of my opinions in response to other topics on this thread.

1) Everybody on this site and any other site is pissing into the wind at this point. No one knows what the hell is going to happen. Hell there are conspiciracy theories out there that Boren made his statement just to get this kind of chaotic response from the Baylor and ISU's of the conference.

2) I firmly believe that Baylor is trying to hold this conference together with duct tape because they are hoping to bank on Griffins final 2 years (assuming he stays for the last year). They are hoping to make themselves seem more attractive in football and combine that with the overall current strength of their athletic department to make sure they land somewhere that is AQ. Baylor has just recently made a real commitment to football (which past administrations practically shunned we had a freaking bible salesman for an AD during Sloans presidency) and it is beginning to pay divedends in attendance, season ticket sales, and recruiting (top 30 class for the first time in a long time and even top 20 according to one service).

3) Baylor has played the old SWC rivals the most of any other school (with the exception of Texas game against Rice). They have at least tried to keep as many of those relationships intact as possible. What would OU have done if they were in the SWC at the time. The Texas leg said take 4 schools or none and Baylor was offered. Hell yes we were going to take that offer. Not to mention in the last 20 years of the SWC that Baylor was 3rd in wins in football behind aggy and texas (they may have been behind Arkansas but they had already defected but I think it was close one way or another). There was political pressure to take them sure, but they were also the most palatible option at the time.

4) Baylor is just the most outspoken of the, as you put it, little children. The vitriol that is being spewed is a by product of 2 things. Baylor is and has always been an easy target because of being a Baptist school. For some reason people like taking shots at private religous universities. Also because Aggy hates us, and we hate them. There is also the fact that for the most part media types learn towards liberal mindset, and most of those people hate Starr for what he did in going after Clinton. that makes Baylor an even easier target. Why no hate for ISU. You know they will never agree to this because they are in the exact same position as Baylor.

5) Why the hell is everyone making this conference out to be so weak? Yes it is top heavy but so has the PAC been for the last 10 or so years. I have heard Aggy state that this conference absolutely sucks and that is why they want out. I have heard the same rhetoric from Longhorns, Sooners and others as well. This conference has put serious contenders in major bowl games more years than it hasn't. OU has gone to the majority of those and you think they would like their current path to a BCS championship game. I honestly don't believe this conference was ever weak in the sense of athletics. I think it is just the easiest and most geographically accessible to poaching for every single conference in the US. PAC schools can really only go after big 12 schools because everyone else is way to far. big 10 and big east is closer to the northern schools. big east, ACC and SEC are not stretches for most schools to travel to. Also big 12 schools have massive followings and large TV footprints for the most part. The big 12 was never weak, but other conferences have played on the individual insecurities and/or stroked the egos of the big players involved in order to destroy the big 12 and reap the benefits that its members would provide to other conferences. This should be the second best conference with the fertile recruiting grounds and good markets, but for some reason everyone is willing to throw that away and move halfway across the country to play on either coast.

Yes there is another Baylor fan on here as someone was asking earlier, but I like to let Sicem duke it out for the most part. This ends my rant as I disappear into the night again.

[EatLeadCommie]

3) Baylor has played the old SWC rivals the most of any other school (with the exception of Texas game against Rice). They have at least tried to keep as many of those relationships intact as possible. What would OU have done if they were in the SWC at the time. The Texas leg said take 4 schools or none and Baylor was offered. Hell yes we were going to take that offer. Not to mention in the last 20 years of the SWC that Baylor was 3rd in wins in football behind aggy and texas (they may have been behind Arkansas but they had already defected but I think it was close one way or another). There was political pressure to take them sure, but they were also the most palatible option at the time.
Not really true. Originally, it was to be aTm and Texas only to the Big 8, thus making a new 10 team league. But Ann Richards, some other Baylor politicos, and some big hitter Taco Tech guys in the Texas state government didn't care for that and forced their way into the discussion. The only reason why Baylor or Taco Tech were included is because they happened to have friends in high places at the time.

[rainiersooner]

Non-sequitir. I would never attend a school that didn't play at least .500 ball.

Clearly you were fortunate enough not to have attended OU during the John Blake years!

[SoonerMom2]

Thought I would throw this in from TexasAgs for a laugh :) :

Note from Loftin to Sherman:

A&M cannot beat Baylor by more than 10 points on Oct 15. Aggie Lawyers are worried Ken Starr will sue for intentional infliction of emotional distress.

[ouflak]

Not really true. Originally, it was to be aTm and Texas only to the Big 8, thus making a new 10 team league. But Ann Richards, some other Baylor politicos, and some big hitter Taco Tech guys in the Texas state government didn't care for that and forced their way into the discussion. The only reason why Baylor or Taco Tech were included is because they happened to have friends in high places at the time.

Texas Tech took advantage and did what it had to to make sure it is involved in just about any discussion on re-alignment, with most of those discussions involving AQ conferences. Baylor did not.

Sounds like a lawsuit to me!

[bearfan08]

Not really true. Originally, it was to be aTm and Texas only to the Big 8, thus making a new 10 team league. But Ann Richards, some other Baylor politicos, and some big hitter Taco Tech guys in the Texas state government didn't care for that and forced their way into the discussion. The only reason why Baylor or Taco Tech were included is because they happened to have friends in high places at the time.

Prominent alums from those schools did speak up, but they were also the best options. Yes it was originally going to be only 2 teams, and yes the leg said they had to take 4. Not disputing that one bit. Some of the things I hear though were that Baylor did not deserve to be one of those other 2 teams that were selected. They actually had a better argument than Tech did at the time. All the recent ineptitude in football has lead people to say Baylor should have never been in the big 12, but when the conference was told to take more than just aggy and texas then Baylor was a logical choice at the time. Now not so much, but think of where OU and Texas could have been if they had continued to have bad coaches ala blake and mackovich. That is what Baylor was mired in when the big 12 formed. they had their blake years and we are hoping to return the the Teaff years where Baylor was competitive most years (kind of like Tech's previous success under Leach).

We aren't delusional enough (like aggy) to think we will be in the championship convo every year but would like to be there every couple of years like okie state is doing now, and have some history to suggest this is possible with the right coach and administrative mindset.

[bearfan08]

Let me also throw this out. Why isn't everybody complaining about how Vandy absolutely sucks and has not really put up fight in the SEC for the last 20 years and is riding all the SEC teams coat tails. yet when Baylor is doing what it is doing they are huge leaches on the conference. Every conference needs its Vandys, and Baylors, ISUs, Northwesterns, etc.

[bearfan08]

Texas Tech took advantage and did what it had to to make sure it is involved in just about any discussion on re-alignment, with most of those discussions involving AQ conferences. Baylor did not.

Sounds like a lawsuit to me!

Tech also did this at the expense of every other program in their athletic department. They have done whatever they can to prop up football and ignored just about everything else. Seems like the right move now because they are in a conversation that is all about football (see Kansas and basketball success). Their overall athletic department is a complete mess though, and might be a small reason why the PAC is hating potentially having to take them.

[NormanPride]

Let me also throw this out. Why isn't everybody complaining about how Vandy absolutely sucks and has not really put up fight in the SEC for the last 20 years and is riding all the SEC teams coat tails. yet when Baylor is doing what it is doing they are huge leaches on the conference. Every conference needs its Vandys, and Baylors, ISUs, Northwesterns, etc.

Because we're not in the SEC? And no, conferences do not need bottom feeders. Go away.

[Frozen Sooner]

Let me also throw this out. Why isn't everybody complaining about how Vandy absolutely sucks and has not really put up fight in the SEC for the last 20 years and is riding all the SEC teams coat tails. yet when Baylor is doing what it is doing they are huge leaches on the conference. Every conference needs its Vandys, and Baylors, ISUs, Northwesterns, etc.

Because Vandy isn't the ugly girl at the prom without a date. Baylor is. Stay on topic.

[saucysoonergal]

Yeah, Vandy brings academic prestige to the SEC!

[SoonerMom2]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=Ajg3hJjWKQuiuCP9EASGKuvevbYF?slug=jn-king_baylor_plan_b_big_east_090811

Baylor has been in talks with the Big East according to Rivals! :)

[saucysoonergal]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=Ajg3hJjWKQuiuCP9EASGKuvevbYF?slug=jn-king_baylor_plan_b_big_east_090811

Baylor has been in talks with the Big East according to Rivals! :)

Those dirty bears, how dare they? ;)

[Jdog]

Let me get this right, Baylor is mad because they will lose money that they would otherwise not have if not for their conference association with OU and Texas. So they are entitled to money that our brand provides? Ok?

[saucysoonergal]

If they want to be competitive in football, they need to take the OsU route. 1. Find a Billionaire 2. Sell him all things Baylor 3. Improve the facilities that attact better recruits.

Easy Peasy!!!

[LiveLaughLove]

This is why we can't get rid of welfare.

"A" and "men" to that!

[badger]

When I heard that the media wave of OU being the reason everyone was not relinquishing their legal rights to SEC sue was a false rumor started in Waco, I think that will be the nail in the coffin. President Boren, AD Castliglione and all of our allies are not to be used like that. Any sympathy or bargaining on Baylor's behalf by Big 12ers is probably out the window if they truly did try a dirty trick like that.

I know you all have a national title in women's basketball, but Baylor has just never taken the challenge to heart to meet the Big 12's level.

-Your enrollment is still the smallest.

- Every remaining Big 12 school has at least a share of a divisional title in football except Baylor.

- Your football stadium holds a measly 50k, tied with Kansas State for smallest.

- With the exception of last year, Baylor has not ranked above 10th in football conference standings.

- Your highest football conference standing last year, 6th, was lower than every other Big 12 school's highest Big 12 conference ranking in football during the Big 12 era. Yes, even Iowa State. Even Kansas.

- Baylor has always ranked sixth and last in the Big 12 South division in football since 1996, with four exceptions, ranking fifth three times and fourth once.

- Four times, most recently in 2007, Baylor has not had a football conference victory in a season.

- Seven times, most recently in 2009, Baylor has only recorded a single football conference victory in a season.

- Baylor has a losing record to every Big 12 opponent in football in the Big 12 era, including a (perfect?) 0-15 record against OU and Tech. Only one other school, Iowa State against OU, has never defeated a Big 12 opponent in the Big 12 era in football.

Long story short, too little, too late. Sorry Baylor.

[saucysoonergal]

I think we ran off SicEm.

[badger]

Probably. Give him a break. He's been a good resident Baylor fan and has taken a lot of crap on behalf of his school lately. We've all taken crap from opposing fans before on the Intrawebz and elsewhere and it's not always easy.

[saucysoonergal]

I have spekked the crap out of him, he probably didn't like my comments, but he did get a lot of spek out of the deal! ;)

[DenverSooner751]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=Ajg3hJjWKQuiuCP9EASGKuvevbYF?slug=jn-king_baylor_plan_b_big_east_090811

Baylor has been in talks with the Big East according to Rivals! :)

Those dirty bears, how dare they? ;)

Sue their asses!! Wait....jus don't waive your right to.....lololol!!

[Widescreen]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=Ajg3hJjWKQuiuCP9EASGKuvevbYF?slug=jn-king_baylor_plan_b_big_east_090811

Baylor has been in talks with the Big East according to Rivals! :)
The Big East institutions are going to threaten to sue Baylor to TI!

Actually, good for them. If they can hurry up and get a Big East invite, all this crap can end. Well, until ISU decides to pick up the mantle.

[DenverSooner751]

Probably. Give him a break. He's been a good resident Baylor fan and has taken a lot of crap on behalf of his school lately. We've all taken crap from opposing fans before on the Intrawebz and elsewhere and it's not always easy.

I hope he doesn't pull a Lid and vanish. He has been a pretty good sport for the most part.

[saucysoonergal]

Lid is too busy beating up poor grannies to post.

[JudInKC]

I contend that Baylor has contributed almost nothing to the finances of this conference and now that the free ride is nearing the end they are in desperation mode. Regardless of the waiver, the aggs are gone next july; get over it.

I haven't read the entire thread, but this is spot-on.

For 15 years, Baylor has easily had the worst athletic department and football program in the conference. They don't bring one additional dime to the other 11 schools but yet they are the first to complain and throw a temper tantrum that the bell-cow may be moved to a different feedlot than the one they occupy.

You had 15 years to get your football program up to speed along with the rest of your athletic department yet all you could improve was womens basketball. Of all the conference teams, I feel the least sorry for Baylor because they've done nothing but ride the coat-tails of OU, Texas, Nebraska, aTm, Missouri, and OSU.

How about getting some of these high profile lawyers and doctors to dump some money into your football program or athletic department instead of bringing frivolous lawsuits because you can't compete on the field of play?

[SicEmBaylor]

THIS!

I respect the whole protecting their interests peice. But in doing so, one would expect the merit of the debate to come forward.....the merit is money.

The merit is money for everyone involved not just us.

The merit of the debate is that Texas A&M entered into a contractual agreement to stay and support the Big XII for the next 13 years. They wanted to break that agreement by moving to the SEC, and most member schools of the Big XII were willing to release them of their contractual obligation to the Big XII because they have greener pastures to graze on. We don't.

Baylor is not obligated in any shape, form, or fashion to sign a waiver agreeing not to sue the SEC just so that the University of Oklahoma can go through with its plans to move to the Pac-12. If the situation was reversed, I have absolutely no doubt that OU wouldn't spend 5 seconds worrying about what effect its actions had on us.

Now, I know you all have your underoos in a wad and are full of consternation because you were ready to leave this dysfunctional cluster**** of a conference, but rest assured that OU is going to be just fine regardless of what happens.

[EatLeadCommie]

Probably. Give him a break. He's been a good resident Baylor fan and has taken a lot of crap on behalf of his school lately. We've all taken crap from opposing fans before on the Intrawebz and elsewhere and it's not always easy.
Agree. His posts were good and polite and he did a good job defending his positions.

[SicEmBaylor]

Let's be honest about another thing Sic, Baylor is now like Geronimo trying to keep the white man off his land. It may be a valiant effort but you're pissing in the wind of history. Ken Starr can threaten to sue everybody from Mike Slive to the Pope but it ain't going to stop any of this. My guess is aTm is having their SEC! SEC! party within a week.

I don't think the long-term goal is to stop this. And unless the SEC reverses course, holds another conference meeting, and drops the conditional acceptance then Aggie is not going anywhere. They can throw all the parties they want at the Waffle House, but they aren't going anywhere unless we waive and/or the SEC drops their conditional acceptance.

[saucysoonergal]

SicEm, the Big XII agreement does contain a exit clause, am I correct? A&M fully complied with this exit clause and were always very open about following the rules? Correct?

People break contracts all the time.

[badger]

Kang: Any-hoo, this is your last chance. Turn over the baby now!
Kodos: Or we will destroy all your leaders in Washington!
Marge: [not intimidated] Oh, you can't destroy every politician!
Kodos: [darkly] Just watch us.
[Kang and Kodos laugh maniacally as they enter their spaceship and take off.]
Bart: Don't forget Ken Starr!

[saucysoonergal]

No response?

[SicEmBaylor]

If I were Baylor, I would have been in talks with Conference USA, the MWC and the Big East the whole time. Once A&M announced, I would have taken the best option of these three and made my own announcement. Then spent the next ten years building up my athletics to be on par with any AQ school in the country so that they either get to move up (if in Conf USA, MWC) or never have to worry about losing that position (if in the Big East).

Now... what conference, especially a conference whose teams have aspirations of moving upwards competitively, will take a school whose cover letter for their resume states, "We will sue or threaten to sue any conference, should they take a school from a conference we are in."?

Adding Baylor to your conference puts up one more barrier to your entry to better things, and those smaller schools already have enough barriers.

I think Baylor has played this very self-destructively. Time will tell I suppose though.

How do you and NP know that we haven't been in discussions with other conferences trying to leverage our position? Baylor has remained steadfastly quiet about what it's doing behind the scenes during this entire mess. We're not A&M -- we're not going to broadcast our intentions if we're in negotiation with other conferences.

And as for Starr being "stupid" and not knowing what he's doing -- seriously? He's the most successful special-prosecutor in United States history (not just the Clinton prosecution) and successfully impeached a President for only the second time in history. He was, before the Clinton fiasco, widely considered as an up and coming Supreme Court candidate. Stupid? I don't think so. He's doing what he was hired and paid to do -- do whatever he can to defend the interests of the university. Things may not go our way, but I can guarantee you that he's analyzed this situation from every angle...he knows what's going on behind the scenes...and he's making the best possible decisions regarding our future. On that, I have no doubt.

Previous Baylor administrations (especially the last two) would have rolled over and accepted whatever ****ty outcome fell in our laps without ever fighting for our interests. I'm glad we have a President who has the balls to see this out to the end and if that means screwing over OU, UT, or anyone else for a little while in order to better our position then I could not possibly care less.

If you're going to be mad at someone for all of this then get mad at Missouri or Nebraska or Aggie...we're not the ones who are making the deck of cards come crashing down.

[saucysoonergal]

SicEm doesn't like me anymore.

[Frozen Sooner]

SicEm, the Big XII agreement does contain a exit clause, am I correct? A&M fully complied with this exit clause and were always very open about following the rules? Correct?

People break contracts all the time.

Yes.

Also, Baylor can't sue A&M for breach of contract. I believe we all went over this in the Texas Tech/Leach stuff. A&M has sovereign immunity.

[SicEmBaylor]

Yes.

Also, Baylor can't sue A&M for breach of contract. I believe we all went over this in the Texas Tech/Leach stuff. A&M has sovereign immunity.

I was referring to the 13-year Big XII television agreement.

[saucysoonergal]

Badger, that dog don't hunt. ;)



Since SicEm won't respond to any of my questions, I will no longer spek him.

[SicEmBaylor]

SicEm, the Big XII agreement does contain a exit clause, am I correct? A&M fully complied with this exit clause and were always very open about following the rules? Correct?

People break contracts all the time.

Yes, people break contracts all the time and there are consequences for breaking those contracts. Typically, the person breaking the contract doesn't just get off scott-free when so much money is involved.

In any case, I'm referring to the television deal not the Big XII bylaws.

There, now I've responded to one of your posts. Happy? ;) I'm one person here -- I can't respond to everything.

[saucysoonergal]

Did A&M sign off on the TV dealio, or was that a Conference decision?

[Frozen Sooner]

I was referring to the 13-year Big XII television agreement.

What about it? Sorry, the responses are going fast and I'm not keeping up with everything everyone is saying.

Baylor cannot sue Texas A&M for money damages (Well, they can, but they'll lose.) Texas A&M has sovereign immunity unless the Texas Legislature waived it.

Baylor will lose if they try to get specific performance on a services contract. The courts NEVER grant that. There's a little something called the 13th Amendment in the way.

[NormanPride]

Ken Starr is in way over his head. Him being a prosecutor has nothing to do with how he handles sports politics or manages a school, and personally I think he's doing a **** poor job of it. Honestly, if he thinks threatening two of the biggest schools out there with this crap is going to be successful in the long run, I don't know what to say. What universities will want to partner with you? What conferences will be interested? I'm with ouflak on this one - Baylor is tainting themselves by fighting the flow of things.

You can admire Starr for fighting, or you can be embarrassed that he's not playing his cards coolly and with class like a school president should. No doubt, A&M is stupid for broadcasting all they're thinking and doing, but that does not preclude Baylor from the same schoolyard jaunts of "moron" and "stupid".

[SicEmBaylor]

Baylor cannot sue Texas A&M for money damages (Well, they can, but they'll lose.) Texas A&M has sovereign immunity unless the Texas Legislature waived it.
This has never been about suing Texas A&M, its about the SEC protecting itself from getting sued. Nobody is talking about suing Texas A&M. This is about waiving our right to sue the SEC not Aggie.

[westbrooke]

Sue their asses!! Wait....jus don't waive your right to.....lololol!!

Now you're getting it! :)

The anger on all sides is understandable. People want to do what they want to do. And from what I can tell, there are so many conflicting reports about how this has all gone down (it's all Baylor! No, wait, it's Baylor and ISU! No, wait, it's everyone! No, wait, not Tech!), it seems like holding judgment for a bit and trying to understand others' perspectives is worthwhile... who knew we were in an after-school special? :)

[saucysoonergal]

This has never been about suing Texas A&M, its about the SEC protecting itself from getting sued. Nobody is talking about suing Texas A&M. This is about waiving our right to sue the SEC not Aggie.

A&M approached the SEC. Where is the SEC's wrongdoing?

[saucysoonergal]

Baylor fans should be angry with *. They are the reason we are mired in the mess in the first place.

[Widescreen]

Yes, people break contracts all the time and there are consequences for breaking those contracts. Typically, the person breaking the contract doesn't just get off scott-free when so much money is involved.


Scott free? Who has suggested that? Isn't that what exit fees are for?

[sooner59]

Baylor to the Big East?

http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/31816105

[Texas Golfer]

Sic Em, you need not explain anymore. Most OU fans want to move on to the Pac-16 and feel Baylor is an obstacle to that end. Baylor has every right to do what it's doing but it may not be the right thing to do. I think that the damage is irreparable. To continue this discussion may cause hard feelings and I don't want you to be run off. I don't think anyone is going to change their minds or opinions at this stage.

[NormanPride]

Oh, SicEm knows he's always welcome here. Even after we've shipped the bears off to the internment camp that is the Sun Belt. ;)

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I don't think the long-term goal is to stop this. And unless the SEC reverses course, holds another conference meeting, and drops the conditional acceptance then Aggie is not going anywhere. They can throw all the parties they want at the Waffle House, but they aren't going anywhere unless we waive and/or the SEC drops their conditional acceptance.

I also predict that this year Bob won't be giving you guys any garbage TDs when you're down 50 in the 4th Q.

[JiminyChristmas]

Baylor can talk all they want about "looking out for themselves", but when you damage other people to look out for yourself, that makes you unBEARable.

I think it was LASooner who used the analogy of a wildfire coming at his neighborhood and the need to look out for yourself only and get the heck out. What Baylor is doing with the fire coming at us is locking everyone else in the neighborhood inside their homes before they get out of the fire's way themselves.

[soonerboomer93]

I haven't read the entire thread, but this is spot-on.

For 15 years, Baylor has easily had the worst athletic department and football program in the conference. They don't bring one additional dime to the other 11 schools but yet they are the first to complain and throw a temper tantrum that the bell-cow may be moved to a different feedlot than the one they occupy.

You had 15 years to get your football program up to speed along with the rest of your athletic department yet all you could improve was womens basketball. Of all the conference teams, I feel the least sorry for Baylor because they've done nothing but ride the coat-tails of OU, Texas, Nebraska, aTm, Missouri, and OSU.

How about getting some of these high profile lawyers and doctors to dump some money into your football program or athletic department instead of bringing frivolous lawsuits because you can't compete on the field of play?

They did one of the most important things and basically the sole reason they were brought in. Provided a private institution to protect the conference from FOIA requests.

[Booner]

I don't blame Baylor. They are pathetic no doubt. I also don't like Baylor now since they are forcing this dead corpse of a conference to remain on life support until the judge finally orders the plug pulled.

Let A&M go to the SEC. It's time for OU, Texas, OSU, and Texas Tech to get Pac(king).

Baylor is like that desperate stalker girlfriend. She really has no other options but to kill you and herself.:beguiled: It's time to get a restraining order!

[sooneredaco]

SicEm your posts are well written for the most part but your logic is getting ever more convoluted. That's tolerable. You lost all credibility w/ me when you went off as BU being some academic heavy-weight. School pride is great but when you slandered Tech suggesting it is academically inferior you wandered into territory which reveals your intellectual and pedagogic limitations. Stick to football. Otherwise some Rice or Southwestern grad will make it all too clear where your BU degree ranks in the hierarchy of Texas higher education.

OUCH!

[Scott D]

Baylor's just stalling for time to guarantee that they will be one of the teams selected by the Big East when this implodes the Big 12 for good.

[Frozen Sooner]

This has never been about suing Texas A&M, its about the SEC protecting itself from getting sued. Nobody is talking about suing Texas A&M. This is about waiving our right to sue the SEC not Aggie.



The merit of the debate is that Texas A&M entered into a contractual agreement to stay and support the Big XII for the next 13 years. They wanted to break that agreement by moving to the SEC, and most member schools of the Big XII were willing to release them of their contractual obligation to the Big XII because they have greener pastures to graze on. We don't.

When you start rambling about releasing Texas A&M from their contract or not, you're talking about giving up a right to sue Texas A&M. A right you don't actually have. Releasing Texas A&M from contractual liability is a different animal from releasing the SEC from tort liability.

I agree it's about releasing the SEC from liability. I couldn't figure out why you were prattling about releasing Texas A&M: an actor who has both sovereign immunity and has agreed to pay liquidated damages as called for by the contract.

[JudInKC]

They did one of the most important things and basically the sole reason they were brought in. Provided a private institution to protect the conference from FOIA requests.

I agree and at the time, taking Baylor was a good move because of the SWC teams besides Texas and aTm, they were probably the most successful other than Houston. Tech was really nothing in football at that point. TCU, SMU, and Rice were crappy programs so taking Baylor was not a bad move.

However, in the 15 years since they were chosen, they have done nothing to justify staying around or being invited to the next round of parties (super conferences). They have made 1 bad hire after another in their football program until getting Briles, who looks like he may turn it around but he's not burning it up either at this point. The guy they hired after Teaff couldn't beat John Blake as that was the only program that John Blake was 3-0 against in his 3 years as the HC in Norman. The guy after that, Kevin Steele, is about to win his first game and decides he wants to score another TD when they are winning the game with the clock winding down. The player fumbles and it's returned 99 yards for a TD and they lose. He never recovered. The guy after that seemed like he could coach but he couldn't get over the hump and struggled to beat crappy teams in OSU (at the time), aTm, and the Big 12 north weak sisters.

In addition, these deep pocket lawyers and dr's sic em references, who want to bring about frivolous lawsuits are either not football fans, or donate in Austin or College Station, because they dang sure aren't putting any money into the Baylor football program. Have you seen their stadium? It hasn't changed in 15 years. Every other football program in the big 12 has made changes to their stadium, but not Baylor. Have you seen the Ferrell Center? It is by far the worst basketball venue in the conference and it's not even close. So, where are all the funds (they have been leeching from the other 9-11 teams in the conference) going? Is Ken Starr putting that money in his own pocket? Are they paying it to Ann Richards estate for helping them get into the conference?

At some point you have to pay the piper and that time is coming for Baylor. Say hello to Conference USA and enjoy those road trips to SMU, Rice, and Houston. Maybe they can compete, but I think this is RG3's sr year, so maybe not.

[Sooner_Tuf]

How many schools in the Big XII, besides OU, have signed off on giving the waiver?

Sorry I have been busy and haven't been able to keep up very well as this issue unfolds.

[SoonerMom2]

Last I heard it was OU, UT, and TT -- there could be more that I didn't catch but those three for sure.

[MeMyself&Me]

"The Baylor Position"

How does that differ from missionary?

[Brophog]

It's harder on the back.

[picasso]

Doggie style?

[soonerboomer93]

I agree and at the time, taking Baylor was a good move because of the SWC teams besides Texas and aTm, they were probably the most successful other than Houston. Tech was really nothing in football at that point. TCU, SMU, and Rice were crappy programs so taking Baylor was not a bad move.

However, in the 15 years since they were chosen, they have done nothing to justify staying around or being invited to the next round of parties (super conferences). They have made 1 bad hire after another in their football program until getting Briles, who looks like he may turn it around but he's not burning it up either at this point. The guy they hired after Teaff couldn't beat John Blake as that was the only program that John Blake was 3-0 against in his 3 years as the HC in Norman. The guy after that, Kevin Steele, is about to win his first game and decides he wants to score another TD when they are winning the game with the clock winding down. The player fumbles and it's returned 99 yards for a TD and they lose. He never recovered. The guy after that seemed like he could coach but he couldn't get over the hump and struggled to beat crappy teams in OSU (at the time), aTm, and the Big 12 north weak sisters.

In addition, these deep pocket lawyers and dr's sic em references, who want to bring about frivolous lawsuits are either not football fans, or donate in Austin or College Station, because they dang sure aren't putting any money into the Baylor football program. Have you seen their stadium? It hasn't changed in 15 years. Every other football program in the big 12 has made changes to their stadium, but not Baylor. Have you seen the Ferrell Center? It is by far the worst basketball venue in the conference and it's not even close. So, where are all the funds (they have been leeching from the other 9-11 teams in the conference) going? Is Ken Starr putting that money in his own pocket? Are they paying it to Ann Richards estate for helping them get into the conference?

At some point you have to pay the piper and that time is coming for Baylor. Say hello to Conference USA and enjoy those road trips to SMU, Rice, and Houston. Maybe they can compete, but I think this is RG3's sr year, so maybe not.

Actually, Baylor is in process of planning to build a new on campus stadium (which I'm sure is on hold now).

As I said, Baylor fills an important role, and at the time of the Big 12 formation, it was basically Baylor, SMU or TCU who would have to come in.

[badger]

Frozo has kindly asked that you leave discussions non-politics in this forum, despite the fact that Ann Richards and Ken Starr have Baylor ties.

I have started a "Baylor Bash" in the politics forum (aka ObamaFest) for the political bashing tones of anything anti-Baylor :)

Link (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?158776-BAYLOR-BASH-Ann-Richards-and-Ken-Starr-talk&p=3336890#post3336890)

Warning: Pic of Ann Richards that none of you want to see on that thread thanks to someone bashing the Baylor Bash thread... of course, that probabyl means you all want to see what you don't want to see now. BUT REMEMBER! It cannot be un-seen.

[saucysoonergal]

I'd rather eat glass than go to ObamaFest! ;)

[badger]

OK then, but you've all been warned. Cards will be handed out for any political stuff brought into the football forum. :)

[Wishboned]

OK then, but you've all been warned. Cards will be handed out for any political stuff brought into the football forum. :)

What about religious?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/TheRainKing/myspace/billboard2.jpg

[badger]

I'm not a real Modador. Tread at your own risk.

http://www.hotboots.com/images/aggie7.jpg

Personally, watching the aggies suffer at the hands of baylor is really funny. It would only get better if baylor downed the goalposts after beating aggie in overtime again.

[delhalew]

Awesome billboard near Houston.
http://yfrog.com/z/gy8lapoxj

Edit: Damn you, Wishboned!

[delhalew]

OK then, but you've all been warned. Cards will be handed out for any political stuff brought into the football forum. :)

This topic is both football and political in nature. Did this world turn to black and white only when I wasn't looking?

[Brophog]

I'm not a real Modador. Tread at your own risk.



And Baylor's not a real BCS program, but that doesn't stop them from pretending they can call the shots.