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badger
9/6/2011, 08:26 AM
Any guesses what the plan is? I hope it isn't more Republican bashing... but maybe it'll be Aretha Franklin concerts for everyone! Yay!

COoL_hU7AAQ

SanJoaquinSooner
9/6/2011, 08:29 AM
Glad to see Florida Republican governor Rick Scott is providing jobs for Floridians. He is looking to repeal laws that prohibit tossing a dwarf against a velcro wall in bars (Dwarf tossing, you know). Apparently Mr Scott has determined this is inhibiting economic recovery in this state.

badger
9/6/2011, 09:01 AM
I'm not asking to start a political fight... I really have no idea what he can announce at this point. Government jobs? Tax credits for companies that create and keep jobs here? Approving the South Carolina Boeing factory jobs? Rebuilding American infrastructure? (please start with Oklahoma roads and bridges!) Investing in green energy? (please no) Raising taxes on the wealthy?

Breadburner
9/6/2011, 09:09 AM
How can someone thats never had a job help with anyone getting one.....

XingTheRubicon
9/6/2011, 11:45 AM
How can someone thats never had a job help with anyone getting one.....

maybe he had an epiphany during his earthquake break on the 7th tee box


can't wait to hear the new plan on thursday...keywords: inherited, invest, napalm

badger
9/6/2011, 11:50 AM
Napalm, or facepalm? :D

OutlandTrophy
9/6/2011, 11:55 AM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/04/rep_maxine_waters_calls_for_a_trillion_dollar_jobs _program.html#.TmVH1igwn9Y.facebook

XingTheRubicon
9/6/2011, 12:03 PM
HFS

sappstuf
9/6/2011, 12:15 PM
Obama is writing a new book about his knowledge of the economy.

Here is a sneak preview...


http://perpendicularsoul.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/blank-sheet-of-paper.gif

soonercruiser
9/6/2011, 09:19 PM
How can someone thats never had a job help with anyone getting one.....

To that point, here is an e-mail I got from a Floridian friend today....
-----------------------------

President Obama walks into the Bank of America to cash a check. As he
approaches the cashier he says, "Good morning, could you please cash this
check for me"?
Cashier: "It would be my pleasure, sir. Could you please show me your ID."?

Obama: "Truthfully, I did not bring my ID with me as I didn't think there
was any need to. I am President Barrack H Obama, president of the United
States of America ."

Cashier: "Yes, sir, I know who you are, but with all the regulations and
monitoring of the banks because of imposters and forgers, etc., I must
insist on seeing ID."

Obama: "Just ask anyone here at the bank who I am and they will tell you.
Everybody knows who I am."

Cashier: "I am sorry, but these are the bank rules and I must follow them."

Obama: "I am urging you to please cash this check."

Cashier: "Look, sir, here's what we can do: one day Tiger Woods came into
the bank without ID. To prove he was Tiger Woods he pulled out his putting
iron and made a beautiful shot across the bank into a cup.
With that shot we knew him to be Tiger Woods and cashed his check. Another
time, Andre Agassi came in without ID. He pulled out his tennis racquet and
made a fabulous shot where the tennis ball landed in my cup.
With that spectacular shot we cashed his check. So, what can you do to prove
that you are really the President of the United States ?"

Obama stood there thinking, and thinking, and finally says: "Honestly, there
is nothing that comes to my mind. I can't think of a single thing I can do."

Cashier: "Will that be large or small bills, Mr. President?"

:fat:

Blue
9/6/2011, 10:05 PM
Looks like its more extended tax cuts and more unemployment extension. How inspiring.

I don't look to DC for anything these days but a giant earthquake putting an end to the sham so...

tommieharris91
9/7/2011, 11:21 AM
Like he's going to do anything. Anything that will actively create jobs won't get through Congress. It's going to be a $300B proposal, with plenty of tax breaks that don't even address the problem that money isn't moving. It will also be about 5% of what we really need.

sappstuf
9/7/2011, 01:03 PM
Like he's going to do anything. Anything that will actively create jobs won't get through Congress. It's going to be a $300B proposal, with plenty of tax breaks that don't even address the problem that money isn't moving. It will also be about 5% of what we really need.

Strange thing to say since Dems in Congress wrote the last stimulus.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/7/2011, 01:44 PM
PIECE OF CAKE!

He will first apologize for not being clear enough back in '09, when he spent the roughly $800 billiion for "shovel-ready jobs". He will need to say he was in a hurry, and maybe didn't make it clearly known exactly what he meant by that term...But now, he will need to spend another $Trillion or so to REALLY have "shovel-ready jobs", such as the roads and bridge building etc. that the public mistakenly thought the original Stimulus was for.

Veritas
9/7/2011, 02:35 PM
The government has no ability to create ****ing jobs (with the notable exception of bureaucratic bloat). Why does anyone think that it does?

You know who creates jobs? Guys like me. I've created three since we started the business back in '08. And those jobs didn't cost the taxpayers jack ****.

And there are two other entrepreneurs, my attorney and my accountant, that my business has helped to grow and hire a couple of employees in the last couple years.

Best thing that pinhead can do is back the **** off and stop pushing through stupid **** like Obamacare that is a disincentive to hire.

tommieharris91
9/7/2011, 02:54 PM
The government has no ability to create ****ing jobs (with the notable exception of bureaucratic bloat). Why does anyone think that it does?

You know who creates jobs? Guys like me. I've created three since we started the business back in '08. And those jobs didn't cost the taxpayers jack ****.Just 3? Ooo wow, what do you have for the other 13,999,997 people looking for work? Companies your size needed to create at least 15 each to get us out of this mess. And when you hire them, what are they gonna do? You can't pay people to sit idle and expect a positive return. (god I wish our federal government would figure that out.)

Anyway, why aren't you creating more jobs? Costs of Obamacare that you've had 3 years to get a good estimate for?

Ohh by the way, GDP growth is nonexistent at best. That's where Obama can help the most. Too bad we're fixated on debt when US debt is the most valuable it has ever been.

Veritas
9/7/2011, 05:14 PM
Just 3? Ooo wow, what do you have for the other 13,999,997 people looking for work? Companies your size needed to create at least 15 each to get us out of this mess. And when you hire them, what are they gonna do? You can't pay people to sit idle and expect a positive return. (god I wish our federal government would figure that out.)

Anyway, why aren't you creating more jobs? Costs of Obamacare that you've had 3 years to get a good estimate for?

Ohh by the way, GDP growth is nonexistent at best. That's where Obama can help the most. Too bad we're fixated on debt when US debt is the most valuable it has ever been.
I'm interested to know how you arrived at that figure of 15 hires without knowing anything about my company, least of all its size.

badger
9/7/2011, 05:22 PM
That bastard Bear fan is gonna preemp my Packers I just know it! :mad:

NBC shuffling pregame show for Obama speech (http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/article.aspx?subjectid=371&articleid=20110907_371_0_NBCiss988372)

In dishonor of this, you can now vBet on two Obama items in the Thursday night NFL football game vBookie event.

Go here! (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?158407-9-8-NFL-opener-Saints-at-Packers)

If you are just here for the political forum and have not experienced the awesomeness that is vBookie before, the instructions are in my sig line.

DON'T YOU DARE INTERRUPT ONE SECOND OF MY PACKER GAME, PRESIDENT OBAMA!

MR2-Sooner86
9/7/2011, 06:37 PM
The government has no ability to create ****ing jobs (with the notable exception of bureaucratic bloat). Why does anyone think that it does?

You know who creates jobs? Guys like me. I've created three since we started the business back in '08. And those jobs didn't cost the taxpayers jack ****.

And there are two other entrepreneurs, my attorney and my accountant, that my business has helped to grow and hire a couple of employees in the last couple years.

Best thing that pinhead can do is back the **** off and stop pushing through stupid **** like Obamacare that is a disincentive to hire.
Just 3? Ooo wow, what do you have for the other 13,999,997 people looking for work? Companies your size needed to create at least 15 each to get us out of this mess. And when you hire them, what are they gonna do? You can't pay people to sit idle and expect a positive return. (god I wish our federal government would figure that out.)

Anyway, why aren't you creating more jobs? Costs of Obamacare that you've had 3 years to get a good estimate for?

Ohh by the way, GDP growth is nonexistent at best. That's where Obama can help the most. Too bad we're fixated on debt when US debt is the most valuable it has ever been.
I'm interested to know how you arrived at that figure of 15 hires without knowing anything about my company, least of all its size.

:pop:

sappstuf
9/7/2011, 07:01 PM
That bastard Bear fan is gonna preemp my Packers I just know it! :mad:

NBC shuffling pregame show for Obama speech (http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/article.aspx?subjectid=371&articleid=20110907_371_0_NBCiss988372)

In dishonor of this, you can now vBet on two Obama items in the Thursday night NFL football game vBookie event.

Go here! (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?158407-9-8-NFL-opener-Saints-at-Packers)

If you are just here for the political forum and have not experienced the awesomeness that is vBookie before, the instructions are in my sig line.

DON'T YOU DARE INTERRUPT ONE SECOND OF MY PACKER GAME, PRESIDENT OBAMA!

Any chance Obama had at taking Wisconsin just went out the window....

Breadburner
9/7/2011, 07:01 PM
He's going to talk again watch the Stock Market take another ****......!!

sappstuf
9/8/2011, 08:32 AM
I bet he will once again claim to have passed the biggest middle class tax cut in history even though it has been proven to be a lie by the Washington Post.

They gave it the worst rating possible.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-whopper-of-a-claim-on-tax-cuts/2011/09/06/gIQAmL2h7J_blog.html?wprss=fact-checker

soonercruiser
9/8/2011, 09:51 AM
Just another "speech".
:jaded:

sappstuf
9/8/2011, 12:54 PM
As long as he says this again...


This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal

Yes, Obama really said it and apparently believes it...

OhU1
9/8/2011, 01:14 PM
I cringe whenever I hear any politician talk about how he knows or has a plan to "create jobs" or he is going to "do something" about creating jobs. Jobs are created by a strong functioning economy not political gimmicks.

What we'll hear tonight will be something about the government flinging more money around (more spending or giving tax cuts). In the meantime the Reagan budget deficit will grow even more.

pphilfran
9/8/2011, 01:14 PM
He will say...

More infrastructure spending...I will agree as long as it isn't sidewalks in Hastings, Ok..yep, they look good too...

Extending unemployment benefits...it is not stimulus

More investment in high tech industry....depends on how he does it..will he and Chu want to find the companies and then give the loans orrrrrr will he drop cap gains taxes on select industries so the venture capital experts can pick the companies and take the risk....which will he choose?

Schools...high tech schools...neutral...

Extending the temp ss cuts...neutral at best...

Money to the states...neutral...

Total of 350 billion is my guess...higher than most expect but still far too small...you would want to hang me because I would double down...700 big uns...

He will talk green...and then green some more...

I bet he sneaks in a tidbit about speeding up the drawdown in Iraq...

sappstuf
9/8/2011, 01:30 PM
Some of the people that will be in the Speaker's box.


Spencer Weitman is the President of National Cement, which recently suspended construction of a new $350 million cement kiln in Ragland, AL due to regulatory obstacles. The construction project would have created more than 1,500 construction jobs and 20 new full-time operational positions, but was determined too costly and unpredictable because of proposed changes to EPA Clean Air Act regulations. The obstacles encountered by National Cement are on the list of “Top 10 Job-Destroying Regulations” identified in Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s (R-VA) August 29 memo outlining the legislative agenda for the remainder of the year.

*Rock Katschnig is a corn and soybean farmer of 32 years from Prophetstown, IL. Hurt by a stream of harmful federal regulations, Katschnig appealed to President Obama at an Atkinson, IL town hall last month, pleading, “Please don’t challenge us with more rules and regulations from Washington D.C. that hinder us.” The president replied, “Don’t always believe what you hear.” Despite President Obama’s statement, one proposed regulation on “particulate matter” (dust) would devastate Katschnig’s industry and destroy many farming jobs. The obstacles encountered by Mr. Katschnig are on the list of “Top 10 Job-Destroying Regulations” identified in Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s (R-VA) August 29 memo outlining the legislative agenda for the remainder of the year.

* Eric Treiber is the CEO of Chicago White Metal Casting, a third-generation family-owned die casting company employing 250 workers in suburban Chicago. Jobs at White Metal Casting are being threatened by increased costs associated with excessive federal regulations, in particular Clean Air Act and utility MACT regulations. White Metal Casting has also been forced to dedicate multiple employees to the task of complying with existing federal regulations.

* Lisa Ingram is the COO of White Castle, a 90-year old family-run company that serves signature “slider” hamburgers. Excessive federal regulations – current and proposed – have put a strain on White Castle, contributing to a plant closure in New Jersey and slowing the company’s ability to create new jobs. The new health care law, for example, has not only jeopardized White Castle’s ability to provide health benefits to its employees, but one provision alone could increase costs so dramatically that it would destroy hundreds of jobs.

* Jim Plante is CEO of Pathway Genomics, a 100-person San Diego-based biotech startup that developed a genetic testing product for consumers. Last year, Pathway partnered with a major drugstore chain to help market their product – a move that would have enabled Pathway to hire 100 additional workers. Despite being in compliance with all available FDA regulations, the FDA attacked Pathway in the media following the announcement of the partnership. The drugstore chain consequently backed out, and Pathway was unable to create those 100 new high-paying jobs.

* Ignacio Urrabazo is president of Commerce Bank of Laredo, Texas, a small community bank with $450 million in assets. Urrabazo would like to lend more money to local businesses to help create more jobs in Laredo, a border community with an unemployment rate nearly 10 percent higher than the state of Texas as a whole. Unfortunately, current FDIC regulations have kept him from lending to qualified businesses. Urrabazo believes excessive federal regulations will soon put community banks out of business.

* John “Jack” Earle is the Managing Partner of Earle Enterprises LP and is a multi-unit franchisee of McDonald’s restaurants in Southeastern Pennsylvania and Southern New Jersey. Mr. Earle also serves as the Chairman of the International Franchise Association. Excessive regulations imposed by the health care law and Dodd-Frank, the ongoing threat of tax hikes, and regulatory overreach by agencies like NLRB, have hamstrung Earle and other franchisers with uncertainty and stifled their ability to create new jobs.

* Glenn Rieger is a General Partner at NewSpring Capital, a private equity fund in suburban Philadelphia that provides capital for growth and expansion-stage businesses. A lead investor in more than 50 mid-Atlantic businesses of all sizes, NewSpring’s ability to support job creators is being hampered by excessive regulations from Sarbanes-Oxley, which is costing them millions of dollars annually.

* Safi Bahcall is the CEO of Synta, a biopharmaceutical company focused on creating new drugs for treating cancer. Hampered by an increasingly uncompetitive American business environment, Bahcall is advocating for the research and development tax credit to be made permanent. More favorable tax incentives in France and Canada have encouraged Synta to out-source work to Canada and the company is currently weighing the potential of moving American jobs to France.

* Kaleil Isaza Tuzman is the CEO of KIT Digital, a 1,200-employee publicly traded video technology company. KIT faces considerable costs as a result of Sarbanes-Oxley compliance regulations. A first generation American with Colombian heritage and fluent in Spanish, Isaza Tuzman was a U.S. special trade representative in Colombia and Mexico under the Clinton and Bush administrations, and is a strong proponent of passing the U.S. -Colombian Free Trade Agreement that the president has yet to submit to Congress.

* Chris George is the CEO of CMG Finance, a mortgage company in the San Francisco Bay area employing 370 people. Hurt by increased health care costs and higher taxes from the new health care law, CMG Finance says the uncertain business environment created by the Obama Administration is preventing them from hiring an additional 15 to 20 workers.

* Henry Juszkiewicz is CEO of the Gibson Guitar Company. Armed federal agents have twice raided Gibson Guitar’s facilities. Why? Unelected Washington bureaucrats won’t say. No charges have been filed and federal regulators have not explained to the company what may have been done wrong or how to rectify the situation.

* Gordon Logan is CEO of Sport Clips, a hair salon chain with over 800 stores. If not for the environment of uncertainty created by Washington, Logan estimates he would have opened 50-100 new stores over the past three years. Instead of hiring new workers, Sports Clips franchise owners are struggling with the new health care law’s burdensome costs and mandates, and considering canceling existing health coverage for current employees. Logan also struggles with access to capital, complicated by government-created uncertainty.

sappstuf
9/8/2011, 03:24 PM
Obama has released the talking points for the speech...




The American Jobs Act is:

- Based on bi-partisan ideas; Yeah right...

- It is fully paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes and asking the wealthiest Americans to pay their fair share; and Does that include Obama's cabinet?

- It will have an impact on job and economic growth NOW — just as soon as Congress acts. Hmm.. Haven't we heard this before? And why does Obama keep selling out the Dems in the Senate?

- Every day, people in this country are working hard to meet their responsibilities. The question now is whether Washington will meet theirs. Doubtful.

- The time for obstruction and gridlock is over. Congress needs to put country ahead of politics. There he goes selling them out again... Does Obama know the Dems control the Senate?

- The American people know that the economic crisis and the deep recession weren’t created overnight and won’t be solved overnight. The economic security of the American middle class has been under attack for decades. It hasn't been overnight, it has been almost three years and a huge stimulus plan that failed.

- That’s why President Obama believes we need to do more than just recover from this economic mess. I would be happy with just recovery at this point, thank you.

- The President is rebuilding the economy the American way — based on balance, fairness and the same set of rules for everyone from Wall Street to Main Street where hard work and responsibility pay and gaming the system is penalized. Does that include Solynda? I never realized the first three letters describe the taxpayer on the half a billion dollar loan.. SOL.

- It’s an American economy that’s built to last and creates the jobs of the future, by forcing Washington to live within its means so we can invest in small business entrepreneurs, education and making things the world buys, not outsourcing, loopholes and reckless financial deals that put middle class security at risk. Does spending another 300 billion dollars of stimulus create an economy that is built to last or force Washington to live within its means?

Veritas
9/8/2011, 04:55 PM
"invest in small business entrepreneurs"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm just going to assume those are hollow words to hook the people that like the idea of being an entrepreneur in a small business but aren't actually small business entrepreneurs themselves. It's guys like me this ********** is looking at as the best source of revenue: we make enough money to pay a hefty tax bill, but are not diversified enough or grossing enough in revenue to take advantage of the Double Irish or other schemes.

**** him and everyone that voted for him.

badger
9/8/2011, 05:54 PM
Did you hear the solar panel place got raided by the FBI earlier today. Crazy timing.

Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=49&articleid=20110908_49_0_FREMON576923)

Anyway, here is why Obama's plan will not work:

1- The public has already placed the burden of action on Democrats and Obama, not the Republicans.

2- The Republicans do not want to allow Obama and Democrats to take credit for anything leading up to the 2012 election.

3- The Democrats, while they have a majority in the Senate, do not have a filibuster-proof majority and therefore, have a very insignificant majority.

4- Obama has control over nothing the Republicans want. He already signed off on extending the tax credits. He already bends at every demand it seems. What, exactly, does he have left to give?

5- There isn't a big enough emergency to call everyone to action. Sure, 10 percent of us on average are unemployed and after awhile those of us without jobs aren't counted as unemployed anymore and are just classified as too lazy to find a job. 10 percent is not an emergency.

I voted for John McCain. I wonder how he would have handled this situation. I also sort of wonder if Sarah Palin would have given Joe Biden a run for "embarrassing vice presidential quips" these past four years. :)

badger
9/8/2011, 05:58 PM
On the converse, here is how the Obama plan can work:

1- Obama must absolutely not take any credit or praise himself in any way for these ideas, or Republicans will definitely not support the unpopular president.

2- Ideas are truly bipartisan. March Sen. Coburn to the front of the podium standing next to President Obama if necessary and let Coburn do all of the talking (gawd, I would LOVE to hear him just go off to the media on anything). Or, any prominent Democrats and Republicans STANDING TOGETHER and UNITED to show that both side truly support this and that this is not an Obama-only, Democrat-only thing.

3- Get Republicans leaders on board before the speech. Do whatever it takes, because you know there will be rebuttal immediately following (PLEASE do not interrupt football!) from top Republicans just begging to say how awful the ideas are.

Soooo... we'll see if Obama's done his prep work beforehand. Probably not.

Turd_Ferguson
9/8/2011, 06:00 PM
I also sort of wonder if Sarah Palin would have given Joe Biden a run for "embarrassing vice presidential quips" these past four years. :)You have to remember, she was only a "wheezing heart beat away from being president".

Blue
9/8/2011, 07:24 PM
THIS is what has happened to the economy. The Globalism lie. Profits over People.

**** you, Ford.

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/07/message-sent-by-ford-opening-new-plant-in-india/

SoonerMom2
9/8/2011, 07:44 PM
I'm not asking to start a political fight... I really have no idea what he can announce at this point. Government jobs? Tax credits for companies that create and keep jobs here? Approving the South Carolina Boeing factory jobs? Rebuilding American infrastructure? (please start with Oklahoma roads and bridges!) Investing in green energy? (please no) Raising taxes on the wealthy? Obama could approve the Keystone Pipeline that has been sitting in his administration since they took office first in the SoS's office. They are not about to help Red State Oklahoma or Texas as we have seen with lack of response on wildfires. Wildfires are not a disaster like a Category 1 hurricane as witnessed by the Obama media.

diverdog
9/8/2011, 08:59 PM
Obama could approve the Keystone Pipeline that has been sitting in his administration since they took office first in the SoS's office. They are not about to help Red State Oklahoma or Texas as we have seen with lack of response on wildfires. Wildfires are not a disaster like a Category 1 hurricane as witnessed by the Obama media.

So the wildfires are Obama and the media's fault? You guys are rich .....lmfao. I thought every Okie like the Ron Paul/Perry types who say f***y** to the federal government.

SoonerMom2
9/8/2011, 09:18 PM
I am going to start watching ABC local news in OK because they cut away from the Obama networks telling us what he said to go to local news. Was not happy with the delay of the game for this speech which was more of the same.

Turd_Ferguson
9/8/2011, 09:27 PM
So the wildfires are Obama and the media's fault? You guys are richThat's what SoonerMom2 said? Wow. Hawaii 5-0, here's your perfect example of "SPIN".

sappstuf
9/8/2011, 09:36 PM
You can barely tell Obama gave a speech today... He really is as inconsequential as a president can be.

diverdog
9/8/2011, 10:10 PM
Some of the people that will be in the Speaker's box.

Are you on the Republican talking points mailing list?

sappstuf
9/8/2011, 10:18 PM
Are you on the Republican talking points mailing list?

It isn't a big deal, I'm sure Obama had lots of small business owners as guests... Phffwa lol. I couldn't say it without laughing. I tried though, I really did.

Blue
9/8/2011, 10:25 PM
Are you on the Republican talking points mailing list?

Hmmph

diverdog
9/8/2011, 10:45 PM
It isn't a big deal, I'm sure Obama had lots of small business owners as guests... Phffwa lol. I couldn't say it without laughing. I tried though, I really did.

And what track record does the Republicans have to run on? Bush created about 3 million jobs in 8 years and all that gain disappeared as the recession deepened into Obama's first term.

Btw regulation and Obamacare ain't the problem. Those are just RWer talking points. What is hurting is the lack of demand, tight access to capital, and a work force that is completely misaliegned for future jobs. We have had 12 years of almost zero job growth and it is likely to continue for a very long time.

sappstuf
9/9/2011, 08:08 AM
And what track record does the Republicans have to run on? Bush created about 3 million jobs in 8 years and all that gain disappeared as the recession deepened into Obama's first term.

Btw regulation and Obamacare ain't the problem. Those are just RWer talking points. What is hurting is the lack of demand, tight access to capital, and a work force that is completely misaliegned for future jobs. We have had 12 years of almost zero job growth and it is likely to continue for a very long time.

Just once, it would be nice if you could defend Obama without invoking Bush...

TUSooner
9/9/2011, 08:16 AM
Disclaimer: I didn't even watch the speech or hear any reports on it, and I don't really know much about economics.

I keep hearing from those who want to protect the wealthy from taxes, that "these are the people who create jobs." So where TF are these jobs? India?

Yes, that's kind of a facetious question, but I'm sure there is a serious answer, and Id like to hear it. Really though, the cost of borrowing money is essentially nil these days, the taxation on the rich is nowhere near confiscatory (despite the howling from the RW), & some people obviously have gobs of money. Yet nobody seems to be doing anything with all this money. It's nice of Gates and Buffett to give $$ away, but they'd do better to put it to real work, the kind that puts people to work.

pphilfran
9/9/2011, 09:31 AM
Well...the bad news is that his plan will do little....the good news is he probably lost himself an election...probably not lost, but he didn't do himself any good...

Money to keep teachers in current jobs will not lower the unemployment rate..

A further decrease in payroll taxes will sell a bunch of bread, shirts, and fried chicken...

Infrastructure and school improvement are good but will take some time and he won't see the full effects prior to election time...

Tax credit to hire a vet is fine but it will only create (take) jobs from the non military and will not lower the unemployment rate...

Tax credit to hire a person laid off for 6 months or more...this is a little more complicated...
You have one group...those that are going to hire...this group will get a credit for nuttin...they will snatch up the money and hire the guy that they were already going to hire...no new jobs created...
You have a second group that has no plans to hire...they ain't gonna hire someone for 30k a year to get a 6k tax credit (whatever the correct amount)...no new jobs created...
A third group is sitting on the fence...you may sway some of these into a hire...limited help in job creation...

Any help to small business is appreciated..props to him...

Funny how in one part of his speech he talks about making us more competitive and keeping jobs in the US while at another point he speaks of raising taxes on corp which will make us less competitive...

There will be nothing done prior to the super duper bipartisan deficit debt committee's recommendation....then there will be a month or two of debate...toss in Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays..we won't see chit till Jan....

OutlandTrophy
9/9/2011, 09:36 AM
Obama outlines his $450B plan:

$170B in payroll tax relief for workers and their employers,
$194B for an extension of jobless benefits,
$105B investment to rebuild roads, bridges and other crumbling infrastructure, (union labor)

plus $35B to help states prevent further layoffs of teachers (unions) and law enforcement (unions)

- to be paid for through phantom budget cuts and yet again more taxes on the producers in society.

So the biggest portion of the money going to create jobs is paying people NOT to work? How is that a jobs bill?

This smells of desperation of a President realizing he is a 1-termer. I kept thinking he was screaming "I am still the president! I am still relevant!"

pphilfran
9/9/2011, 09:42 AM
It is a smaller version of the 1st stimuli....it will hold unemployment at current levels or possibly a slight drop...

okie52
9/9/2011, 10:24 AM
And what track record does the Republicans have to run on? Bush created about 3 million jobs in 8 years and all that gain disappeared as the recession deepened into Obama's first term.

Btw regulation and Obamacare ain't the problem. Those are just RWer talking points. What is hurting is the lack of demand, tight access to capital, and a work force that is completely misaliegned for future jobs. We have had 12 years of almost zero job growth and it is likely to continue for a very long time.

Misaligned and misdirected. Very good diver. How's Obama doing on energy independence? Still think we will EVER see a nuke under him? How about all those jobs and revenues that Obama is just throwing away in the energy sector like Offshore drilling? Never let ideology stand in the way of reality.

REDREX
9/9/2011, 10:28 AM
Maybe someday Washington will figure out that it is the job of the private sector to create jobs---not the Gov't

pphilfran
9/9/2011, 10:36 AM
I don't understand why we don't jump all over Chesapeake's transportation plan...they are ponying up a billion over ten years...T Boone is on the same side....but nutting....nada....no f'n way...

sappstuf
9/9/2011, 10:41 AM
Misaligned and misdirected. Very good diver. How's Obama doing on energy independence? Still think we will EVER see a nuke under him? How about all those jobs and revenues that Obama is just throwing away in the energy sector like Offshore drilling? Never let ideology stand in the way of reality.

Good point Okie.. I don't think Obama mentioned energy a single time last night.

REDREX
9/9/2011, 10:58 AM
The Stock Market taking a big dump today

okie52
9/9/2011, 11:23 AM
I don't understand why we don't jump all over Chesapeake's transportation plan...they are ponying up a billion over ten years...T Boone is on the same side....but nutting....nada....no f'n way...

Yep, absolutely nothing on a job creating program that will reduce CO2 emissions and dependence on foreign oil. Now he can loan $10,000,000,000 to the Brazilians to develop their resources but can't quite find any money for our domestic energy companies.....except of course to increase their taxes.

okie52
9/9/2011, 11:40 AM
Good point Okie.. I don't think Obama mentioned energy a single time last night.

Yeah, no reason to mention about our trade deficit that is largely due to imported oil (about 70%). That, and our foreign entanglements that are largely due to oil (or our lack of oil).

For a country that is struggling desperately to create jobs it is amazing that he can continuously beat up a sector that would provide them.

pphilfran
9/9/2011, 11:43 AM
Yeah, no reason to mention about our trade deficit that is largely due to imported oil (about 70%). That, and our foreign entanglements that are largely due to oil (or our lack of oil).

For a country that is struggling desperately to create jobs it is amazing that he can continuously beat up a sector that would provide them.

They go about everything bass ackwards...

okie52
9/9/2011, 11:55 AM
Well, let's not forget about all of those "green energy" jobs. How's that working?

badger
9/9/2011, 12:13 PM
I had to miss the first part of it, but I did catch the last 20 or so minutes. Thoughts:

- I liked his specific ideas, such as cutting the interest rates on mortgages.

- There were not enough specific ideas, however. Most of it was desired outcomes.

- He did a lot of stern shouting. I know he was trying to sound like a strong leader, but it seemed out of character and thus, seemed like an act.

- As a commentator noted, it almost sounded like a rowdy British parliament session rather than a meeting of Congress with the president.

- I have always loved watching Congress members try to get on TV before and after the event, regardless of who the president is. Last night was no disappointment. People were dying to get his ear for longer than the obligatory two second handshake, and it wasn't working. A few people were still talking at him while he was already two handshakes past them.

While most of the Oklahoma delegation bashed Obama (not surprising, as we only have one Dem, and he's a Boren), I liked Coburn's response:


Republican Sen. Tom Coburn welcomed Obama's challenge to Congress not to spend the next 14 months campaigning instead of legislating.

Coburn, however, accused the president of ridiculing tax breaks for oil companies while touting tax credits for renewable energy, adding that approach does not move the nation closer to the kind of fundamental tax reform needed to stimulate the economy.

"Still, we can start with small steps,'' he said.

Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=335&articleid=20110909_16_A1_CUTLIN122598)

Dr. Tom could really take the lead on this and encourage his fellow Republicans to take these ideas with an open mind and not outwardly reject everything immediately. Of course, Democrats better be willing to do the same for Republican ideas.

Chance in hell! There's a chance in hell it'll happen!

okie52
9/9/2011, 12:26 PM
Coburn sees the folly of Obama's energy policies as you would hope most Okies would too.

A shame the country has to suffer for it.

Veritas
9/9/2011, 12:39 PM
Disclaimer: I didn't even watch the speech or hear any reports on it, and I don't really know much about economics.

I keep hearing from those who want to protect the wealthy from taxes, that "these are the people who create jobs." So where TF are these jobs? India?

Yes, that's kind of a facetious question, but I'm sure there is a serious answer, and Id like to hear it. Really though, the cost of borrowing money is essentially nil these days, the taxation on the rich is nowhere near confiscatory (despite the howling from the RW), & some people obviously have gobs of money. Yet nobody seems to be doing anything with all this money. It's nice of Gates and Buffett to give $$ away, but they'd do better to put it to real work, the kind that puts people to work.
This is going to be way too long because the answer isn't simple. It's not a soundbite that some politican can use to pander.

#1: When taxes get raised on "the rich," people aren't really raising taxes on who they think they are.
I think when people hear "rich" they think of guys like Gates or Buffett. Mansions, helicopters, exotic cars. Financial excess.

But take a guy like me. My wife and I live in an apartment because it's never made financial sense to buy a home. We drive a 2002 Ford Explorer and a 2005 BMW 545i. Don't be fooled by the BMW: we only paid $22K, not $60K+. Had an M5 for a while but it got **** mileage, wasn't as comfy, and it bugged me to have that much money in a depreciating asset so I sold it. I do fly airplanes, which is a really expensive hobby, but hardly at all...I might fly for a couple hours a month, if that. My point is that we're hardly the picture of financial excess.

According to the government I'm rich. Well, I'm not, I'm an employee of my company and take the lowest salary I can get away with, but my business still clears enough that our quarterly tax payments are shockingly large. And because we're an S corp, like most small businesses, the earnings of the business filter back to my tax return via a K-1 statement.

Here's what's key: I don't have access to the same type of tax breaks that the Gates and Buffetts of the world do because I'm not rich enough. Can't do the Double Irish, for example, the strategy that Google and many other corps use.

In other words there is a net income range, over $250K per annum and less than, I don't really know, a million maybe, where avoiding paying taxes via sophisticated financial maneuvers isn't possible.

So when there is discussion of raising tax rates for "the rich" people think they're taking a bite out of Gates or Buffett, but they're not: they're taking a bite out of the small business guy who's successful enough to be a legitimate job creator but not so successful that they can use sophistacated tax strategies to avoid paying the full brunt of the tax liability.

#2: Debt is slavery. The most sustainable way to finance growth is with cash.
You're right, the interest cost of borrowing money is pretty low these days. And since acquisition via debt is an acceptable and encouraged transation these days (home loans, financed cars, Visa'd TVs) it probably seems like extending that behavior into the business realm is perfectly logical.

It's not. The problem with debt-financed growth is that drastically reduces the margin for error: if you grow with debt, your gross much grow accordingly and must stay at those levels. If it dips, you can't meet your debt obligation. So you borrow more, a bridge loan, then a longer-term larger loan. More debt obligation that requires even more gross...but the reason you took on more debt is because your gross was down. It's an easy cycle to fall into and before you know it you're screwed.

Now consider growth with cash. You can't grow as aggressively because you can only invest what you clear, but your fixed costs only go up based on the type of acquisition. So say you buy a building, your monthly nut only goes up by the cash required to maintain and service the building. Hire an employee, you're just paying for salary plus. You're not paying those costs plus your debt service.

#3: Growth is never linear
There's this perception, I think, revenues grow and are generated at a steady rate. But that's rarely the case. Your trend over time is upward (hopefully) but depending on your business cycle cash flows may fluctuate greatly. This means that you've got to have cash on hand to cover expenses for those months/quarters/years when revenues are down. God help you if you've got a high debt load and you see a long period of depressed revenues.

#4: Employees are really really expensive.
So yesterday tommieharris took a big sh!t on me for having not having created more than three jobs.

But those three employees cost me around $30K per month (payroll + taxes + perqs). I only had $9K in the bank when I started this thing, so we've grown to the point in a bit over three years where we have to spend $30K every month. I don't think that's anything to scoff at.

Now consider my points about debt being slavery and revenues/growth not being linear. In order to know that you'll be able to pay your employees in good times and bad you've got to have a bunch of cash on hand. You have to plan ahead. I like to have at least 6 months of expense in reserve per employee. For us, that's $180K in cash.

If I want to hire a new employee responsibly, meaning that I won't have to can him when we're a bit down on revenues, I need to stockpile an additional $65K in cash as well as acquire an additional $240K in annual revenue (we only need to generate 2X per employee because our margins are great, most businesses are much higher).

#5: Sustainable growth requires a big warchest. A high tax rate harms that effort.
So to hire a new employee at our current tax rate I've got to gross around $100K in order to have enough cash on reserve to know I can float during the lean times (actually the number is higher because of operation costs, but let's keep it simple). If the marginal tax rates were lower I'd be able to accumlate cash more quickly. My employees are in a pretty high tax bracket, so if their tax braket were lower I wouldn't have to pay as much to keep their net where it currently is. Their FICA/FUTA expense would drop, as would mine. Again, this would help me to accumulate cash more quickly and bring on new highers at a greater rate.

In closing...
When guys like me agitate againt taxes, it's not because we're greedy and want to buy new yachts. I feel like that is the perception that liberals and the media try to create in order to pander to the majority, the folks whose incomes aren't in the higher brackets.

I protest high taxation because cash in the bank is fuel in the tank. More cash equals more growth, more risk, and yes, more jobs created. Trying to take 33% of my fuel really impedes that effort.

Prodigal
9/9/2011, 12:53 PM
Bush created about 3 million jobs in 8 years.

Seriously?

How dumb does somone have to be to say a politician creates jobs like that?

sappstuf
9/9/2011, 01:16 PM
And what track record does the Republicans have to run on? Bush created about 3 million jobs in 8 years and all that gain disappeared as the recession deepened into Obama's first term.

Btw regulation and Obamacare ain't the problem. Those are just RWer talking points. What is hurting is the lack of demand, tight access to capital, and a work force that is completely misaliegned for future jobs. We have had 12 years of almost zero job growth and it is likely to continue for a very long time.

The man running the country is completely "misaligned" for his current job....

sappstuf
9/9/2011, 01:40 PM
When Obama proposed payroll tax cuts for small businesses, three Democrats stood to applaud. Summer jobs for disadvantaged youth brought six Democrats to their feet, and a tax credit for hiring the long-term unemployed produced 11 standees.

Obama spoke quickly, urgently, even angrily. Rep. Jesse Jackson (D-Ill.) stared at the ceiling. Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) scanned the gallery. Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.) was seen reading a newspaper. And Republicans, when they weren’t giggling, were mostly silent.

It is good to see some consensus in Washington.... Obama is irrelevent.

OhU1
9/9/2011, 01:45 PM
I knew the Dems would want to throw money away with more "jobless benefits" extensions. How does establishing a perpetual jobless welfare check program "create jobs"? Hasn't there been some kind of unemployment benefit extension in place since Obama took office? This new extension of the welfare state needs to be killed.

sappstuf
9/9/2011, 01:57 PM
I knew the Dems would want to throw money away with more "jobless benefits" extensions. How does establishing a perpetual jobless welfare check program "create jobs"? Hasn't there been some kind of unemployment benefit extension in place since Obama took office? This new extension of the welfare state needs to be killed.

Here is Obama's Ag Secretary claiming that every dollar spent in food stamps creates $1.84 in the economy... My question is then why don't we put every single American on food stamps and our GDP should go through the roof!

1HjTX0wdMW4&

badger
9/9/2011, 02:17 PM
It is a bad position to be caught in, because the longer you're jobless, the less likely employers will want to hire you.

OhU1
9/9/2011, 02:44 PM
Here is Obama's Ag Secretary claiming that every dollar spent in food stamps creates $1.84 in the economy... My question is then why don't we put every single American on food stamps and our GDP should go through the roof!

Yep, Dems are not the only ones who do this but it's a common government pitch: "For every $1 dollar invested in education we get back $8!" Note: "Invested" is a cherished goverment euphemism for spening tax money.

If we just "invested" more tax money we would have a runaway multiplier effect - jobs and money for all!

TUSooner
9/9/2011, 03:22 PM
I knew the Dems would want to throw money away with more "jobless benefits" extensions. How does establishing a perpetual jobless welfare check program "create jobs"? Hasn't there been some kind of unemployment benefit extension in place since Obama took office? This new extension of the welfare state needs to be killed.

Then maybe all those lazy loafing unemployed people would suddenly find work, or just quietly starve to death for the good of the Nation.
Actually, sarcasm aside (because I despise a welfare state), I think you overstate this particular problem. Direct conditional unemployment benefits are supposedly more effectve than most other forms of assistance, because they go straight back out into the market when people buy necessities.

REDREX
9/9/2011, 03:25 PM
We have had several people come in looking for a job-----But they are not "available" for a few more months---------Gee I wonder what the problem is ?

OutlandTrophy
9/9/2011, 03:35 PM
Direct conditional unemployment benefits are supposedly more effectve than most other forms of assistance, because they go straight back out into the market when people buy cigarettes.

amended

dwarthog
9/9/2011, 03:46 PM
Yeah, no reason to mention about our trade deficit that is largely due to imported oil (about 70%). That, and our foreign entanglements that are largely due to oil (or our lack of oil).

For a country that is struggling desperately to create jobs it is amazing that he can continuously beat up a sector that would provide them.

He has to pander to his base, which is why he hit all of the LW's key talking points. It's the only hope he has left.

sappstuf
9/9/2011, 03:54 PM
Here is a great pop quiz from the Washington Post.

Did Obama say it last night or in his 2009 stimulus speech? Swipe below for the answers.


1. “More than 90 percent of these jobs will be in the private sector — jobs rebuilding our roads and bridges; constructing wind turbines and solar panels; laying broadband and expanding mass transit.”

2. “It will lead to new jobs for construction workers, teachers, veterans, first responders, young people and the long-term unemployed.”

3. “It’s a plan that won’t help speculators or that neighbor down the street who bought a house he could never hope to afford, but it will help millions of Americans who are struggling with declining home values — Americans who will now be able to take advantage of the lower interest rates that this plan has already helped bring about. In fact, the average family who refinances today can save nearly $2,000 per year on their mortgage.”

4. “We’re going to work with federal housing agencies to help more people refinance their mortgages at interest rates that are now near 4 percent — a step that can put more than $2,000 a year in a family’s pocket, and give a lift to an economy still burdened by the drop in housing prices.”

5. “Ask yourselves — where would we be right now if the people who sat here before us decided not to build our highways and our bridges; our dams and our airports? What would this country be like if we had chosen not to spend money on public high schools, or research universities, or community colleges? Millions of returning heroes, including my grandfather, had the opportunity to go to school because of the GI Bill. Where would we be if they hadn’t had that chance?”

6. “History reminds us that at every moment of economic upheaval and transformation, this nation has responded with bold action and big ideas. In the midst of civil war, we laid railroad tracks from one coast to another that spurred commerce and industry. From the turmoil of the Industrial Revolution came a system of public high schools that prepared our citizens for a new age. In the wake of war and depression, the GI Bill sent a generation to college and created the largest middle-class in history. And a twilight struggle for freedom led to a nation of highways, an American on the moon, and an explosion of technology that still shapes our world.”

7. “It also charges this Congress to come up with an additional $1.5 trillion in savings.”

8. “We have already identified $2 trillion in savings over the next decade.”

9. “The only way to fully restore America’s economic strength is to make the long-term investments that will lead to new jobs, new industries, and a renewed ability to compete with the rest of the world.”

10. “If we provide the right incentives and support — and if we make sure our trading partners play by the rules — we can be the ones to build everything from fuel-efficient cars to advanced biofuels to semiconductors that are sold all over the world.”

11. “To preserve our long-term fiscal health, we must also address the growing costs in Medicare and Social Security.”

12. “But with an aging population and rising health care costs, we are spending too fast to sustain the program. And if we don’t gradually reform the system while protecting current beneficiaries, it won’t be there when future retirees need it. We have to reform Medicare to strengthen it.”


(Answers: 2009 speech contained 1, 3, 6, 8, 9 and 11)

85Sooner
9/9/2011, 06:45 PM
Very nice, correct and pertinent post!

49r
9/9/2011, 06:55 PM
So when there is discussion of raising tax rates for "the rich" people think they're taking a bite out of Gates or Buffett, but they're not: they're taking a bite out of the small business guy who's successful enough to be a legitimate job creator but not so successful that they can use sophistacated tax strategies to avoid paying the full brunt of the tax liability.

snipped for brevity...


Man, I think that we can all agree that you are a pretty respectable and upstanding dude who has, as an entrepreneur, done well enough and worked hard/smart enough to earn whatever it is you do and that nobody is really begrudging that hard/smart work being remunerated accordingly. That is, after all, what the free market is for. Nor, do I think anyone advocates adjusting the tax code so as to make doing business for an entrepreneur such as yourself onerous.

In fact, it is true that the cost of employing a person is far greater than their yearly salary and takes careful planning - as you have demonstrated...

But I don't think it's the entrepreneur like yourself that raises the ire of the people who call for closing some of the loopholes that you yourself admit you aren't eligible for.

No, it is the super rich C level executives earning 7, 8 or sometimes even 9 figure annual salaries (typically those on Wall Street) who are the ones in the crosshairs here. Their sole purpose for earning those exorbitant salaries is in maximizing shareholders' (read, NOT necessarily stakeholders') equity. They receive absurd salaries in doing so, get to keep more of said salary through Bush-era tax cuts, and ironically, in some cases they are tasked with eliminating jobs just to earn enough of a short term gain to satisfy greedy shareholders. Buffet himself has said that he is a member of this class, but at least he admits that this is an unsustainable policy for our economy. (BTW, the argument about him voluntarily paying more taxes is simply a strawman and we all know it...it's not the point)

To be fair here, I'm not trying to just vilify Dubya for all of the aforementioned problems with today's big time fortune 500 or 1000 C level exec garnering way out of line salaries. It's happened under every administration for the last 30 or 40 (or more) years including the current one.

The point is, and like TUSooner has mentioned here, if these tax loopholes for the uber-rich are designed to create wealth and new jobs, where are the jobs? I'm pretty convinced that the supply-side experiment is a failed one and we should reel it in.

We do, however, need more of the entrepreneurial types such as yourself in our economy...I do believe in that, and I salute you, sir. But I say it's time to close the loopholes that folks of your ilk aren't eligible for.

That is all.

diverdog
9/9/2011, 07:18 PM
Just once, it would be nice if you could defend Obama without invoking Bush...

And just once will you acknowledge Bush bares a huge responsibility for this economy that we are in?

diverdog
9/9/2011, 07:30 PM
Misaligned and misdirected. Very good diver. How's Obama doing on energy independence? Still think we will EVER see a nuke under him? How about all those jobs and revenues that Obama is just throwing away in the energy sector like Offshore drilling? Never let ideology stand in the way of reality.

Reread my statement. How many of those who are unemployed are qualified to work on a nuclear power plant or drill oil? Our work force lack the skills or traing to compete in the future. We could not even begin to build all those nuclear plants without significant foreign help.

Secondly, while I do not disagree with more energy exploration it does little to address the lack of demand from consumers who are up to their necks in debt and the lack of capital to build their businesses. Consumer spending and housing make up a huge part of our economy and until that gets fixed we are in this sh*thole for years.

Third, one of the real culprits of job loss is technology. Nothing we do will stop the fact that machines are replacing us. Of course this begs the question do we really need jobs in the not to distant future.

diverdog
9/9/2011, 07:36 PM
Here is Obama's Ag Secretary claiming that every dollar spent in food stamps creates $1.84 in the economy... My question is then why don't we put every single American on food stamps and our GDP should go through the roof!

1HjTX0wdMW4&

Not to bust your bubble but he is most likely correct.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/29/news/economy/stimulus_analysis/index.htm/

OutlandTrophy
9/9/2011, 09:23 PM
Not to bust your bubble but he is most likely correct.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/29/news/economy/stimulus_analysis/index.htm/
are you saying that if everyone was on food stamps our GDP would increase dramatically and it is sustainable?

diverdog
9/9/2011, 09:34 PM
are you saying that if everyone was on food stamps our GDP would increase dramatically and it is sustainable?

Did you read the article?

SanJoaquinSooner
9/9/2011, 09:48 PM
Watching the last GOP Presidential debate, I liked the GOP WPA plan, bringin gubmint funded jobs to America:

More Boots at the Border and more fence builders!!!! ... under the ruse of "securing the border."

okie52
9/9/2011, 11:16 PM
Reread my statement. How many of those who are unemployed are qualified to work on a nuclear power plant or drill oil? Our work force lack the skills or traing to compete in the future. We could not even begin to build all those nuclear plants without significant foreign help.

Secondly, while I do not disagree with more energy exploration it does little to address the lack of demand from consumers who are up to their necks in debt and the lack of capital to build their businesses. Consumer spending and housing make up a huge part of our economy and until that gets fixed we are in this sh*thole for years.

Third, one of the real culprits of job loss is technology. Nothing we do will stop the fact that machines are replacing us. Of course this begs the question do we really need jobs in the not to distant future.

Probably very few people are unemployed in the nuclear sector since we haven't built a new nuke plant in over 30 years.....a job source we have outsourced to all the other nuclear powers. I seem to recall you
Believing Obama was going to get us some nukes built yet after 3 years still not a new nuke license. You aren't going to increase employment in the nuclear sector if you don't allow nuke plants to be built.

Now on offshore drilling there are plenty of jobs to be had/created....most that are high paying. over
half of the total gulf coast economy is based on oil exploration and production. That isn't limited to just
the drillers and roughnecks but includes thousands of white collar and blue collar jobs. From shipbuilders, longshoremen, crane operators, cat operators, supply ships, steel workers, pipe manufacturers, chemical producers, geologists, engineers, landmen, geophysicists, accountants, lawyers......well you get the picture. And we have plenty of people trained to handle those positions and will train thousands more to meet the demand if Obama would take the shackles off. And the US has the best technology and experts in
The world in oil and gas.....2nd to none. The demand and expertise is there but the leadership isn't and America is paying for it. But hey let's not forget about those millions of green jobs.

okie52
9/9/2011, 11:26 PM
Watching the last GOP Presidential debate, I liked the GOP WPA plan, bringin gubmint funded jobs to America:

More Boots at the Border and more fence builders!!!! ... under the ruse of "securing the border."

Yep, why would anyone waste all of that money when land mines and IEDs would take care of most of
the Problem.

Prison camps for those aiding and abetting illegals would also be a good investment.

SanJoaquinSooner
9/10/2011, 12:38 AM
Prison camps for those aiding and abetting illegals would also be a good investment.

More gov't funded jobs to stop those who are willing to provide labor to the private sector!!!!

As Ronald Reagan often said, Gov't isn't the solution. It's the problem!

okie52
9/10/2011, 06:11 AM
When you have massive unemployment labor isn't the problem.

On second thought, Wholesale executions would be a better solution....much more cost
effective.

SanJoaquinSooner
9/10/2011, 07:54 AM
When you have massive unemployment labor isn't the problem.

On second thought, Wholesale executions would be a better solution....much more cost
effective.

I said "willing" labor. Pay attention.

Veritas
9/10/2011, 08:14 AM
But hey let's not forget about those millions of green jobs.
Yeah, funny how that didn't come up in his speech.

sappstuf
9/10/2011, 08:39 AM
Not to bust your bubble but he is most likely correct.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/29/news/economy/stimulus_analysis/index.htm/

Not to burst your bubble, but Mark Zandi believes that government spending makes the world revolve. He was one of the principle advisers behind the Dems stimulus plan. We all know how that worked out... Or didn't. It failed on all of its large goals. Why? Fairly simple actually. The multiplier was completely wrong.

The Dems love them some Zandi...

http://media.washtimes.com/media/community/photos/blog/entries/2011/02/09/deficit-reduction-600_s640x427.jpg?73b8e21685896c3f2859310aaa5adb253 919b641

Spend more taxpayers dollars!! Too bad he has consistently been wrong.

sappstuf
9/10/2011, 09:02 AM
And just once will you acknowledge Bush bares a huge responsibility for this economy that we are in?

Good grief DD, it has been almost 3 years! At what point does Obama begin to take responsibility? I would think signing an $800 billion stimulus plan would give him responsibility regardless of it worked or not. It obviously didn't. That isn't Bush's fault. I would normally give any new president a year on the economy. Obama was more aggressive and passed the stimulus within a year, so I started holding him responsible to the goals at that point. As the old Chief's motto goes: Results, not excuses.

Bush and Obama both inherited recessions. Both recessions ended before either of them could really do anything about it. In Bush's case he had the double whammy of 9/11. You certainly don't rush to Bush's defense because of those two facts.... Nope, you just put all the blame on him for not creating enough jobs. I wonder why? Seems rather partisan to me.

Man up, play the cards you're dealt. Obama was dealt a bad hand there is no question, but many presidents are. Maybe he should not have overpromised and underdelivered on the stimulus plan. "Shovel ready"? Obama is a big boy, you should stop treating him like a kid and hold him responsible for the things he says he can do. If you did, you would join the majority of Americans that thinks he is doing a poor job.

okie52
9/10/2011, 09:04 AM
I said "willing" labor. Pay attention.

We have willing labor....just not do it for nothing labor. But with people like you helping all those illegals our poor unemployed labor are better off collecting unemployment.

diverdog
9/10/2011, 10:47 AM
Not to burst your bubble, but Mark Zandi believes that government spending makes the world revolve. He was one of the principle advisers behind the Dems stimulus plan. We all know how that worked out... Or didn't. It failed on all of its large goals. Why? Fairly simple actually. The multiplier was completely wrong.

The Dems love them some Zandi...

http://media.washtimes.com/media/community/photos/blog/entries/2011/02/09/deficit-reduction-600_s640x427.jpg?73b8e21685896c3f2859310aaa5adb253 919b641

Spend more taxpayers dollars!! Too bad he has consistently been wrong.

I am not talking about Zandi although his statements are somewhat correct. In economics school you learn about all sorts of policies and one of the is well known it is called fiscal multiplier or exogenous spending multiplier. To see it in action just look at the economies around military bases. You are part of this equation because the government salary you receive supports a lot of local businesses. The thing that needs to be understood is that you need a spending multiplier close to three times a dollar spent to recover the money that is injected into the economy. That can be tough to do.

diverdog
9/10/2011, 10:52 AM
Good grief DD, it has been almost 3 years! At what point does Obama begin to take responsibility? I would think signing an $800 billion stimulus plan would give him responsibility regardless of it worked or not. It obviously didn't. That isn't Bush's fault. I would normally give any new president a year on the economy. Obama was more aggressive and passed the stimulus within a year, so I started holding him responsible to the goals at that point. As the old Chief's motto goes: Results, not excuses.

Bush and Obama both inherited recessions. Both recessions ended before either of them could really do anything about it. In Bush's case he had the double whammy of 9/11. You certainly don't rush to Bush's defense because of those two facts.... Nope, you just put all the blame on him for not creating enough jobs. I wonder why? Seems rather partisan to me.

Man up, play the cards you're dealt. Obama was dealt a bad hand there is no question, but many presidents are. Maybe he should not have overpromised and underdelivered on the stimulus plan. "Shovel ready"? Obama is a big boy, you should stop treating him like a kid and hold him responsible for the things he says he can do. If you did, you would join the majority of Americans that thinks he is doing a poor job.

1. I have defended Bush on his cash infusions into the banking system.

2. Obama bares responsibility for not getting unemployment down and a stimulus that was not well thought out. He does not bare responsibility for the ongoing recession which is being driven by worldwide problems and getting one of the worst economic crises in our life time.

pphilfran
9/10/2011, 11:56 AM
It is not really an ongoing recession....yet... :)

The whole deal was handled poorly from the start...and they know how tough it was going to be..."Worst Recession Since the Depression"....

They tossed billions, if not trillions, into the banking industry with little oversight...and then far too much of the funding didn't move into areas that would help the homeowner...

The GM and Chrysler bailouts were drug out far too long..and then to sell Chrysler to Fiat...FIAT!!!!!!...grrrrrr......btw back in the late 60's early 70's my big sis had a Fiat 850 Spyder....850cc....tubular headers from the factory! It had unlimited revving ability...I can't believe I didn't blow the thing up...

Stimulus 1...it did so well we had QE1 and QE2....which did do well it ls leading to...Stimulus 2...

And then we have...."Shovel Ready"...this one statement shows how little they understand the business world....

sappstuf
9/10/2011, 12:19 PM
I am not talking about Zandi although his statements are somewhat correct. In economics school you learn about all sorts of policies and one of the is well known it is called fiscal multiplier or exogenous spending multiplier. To see it in action just look at the economies around military bases. You are part of this equation because the government salary you receive supports a lot of local businesses. The thing that needs to be understood is that you need a spending multiplier close to three times a dollar spent to recover the money that is injected into the economy. That can be tough to do.

Go back and watch the video... He is claiming that food stamps are an economic stimulus and that every dollar spent on food creates $1.84.

Impossible. The only way to get to $1.84 is if you pretend that the consumer would have spent zero on food without the food stamps. That is exactly what Zandi did. That isn't happening and isn't realistic. But it is the exact lala land theory Obama based the stimulus on.

Fiscal multipliers do not have to be north of a $1. I read somewhere, but now I cannot find it that the actual effect of Obama's stimulus was about 73 cents for every dollar spent. In another words, it failed to raise the GDP like predicted based on the multipliers Obama used, in fact GDP continued to fall after the stimulus was passed. Of course, we already knew that didn't we?

sappstuf
9/10/2011, 12:20 PM
1. I have defended Bush on his cash infusions into the banking system.

2. Obama bares responsibility for not getting unemployment down and a stimulus that was not well thought out. He does not bare responsibility for the ongoing recession which is being driven by worldwide problems and getting one of the worst economic crises in our life time.

But you just claimed that Bush does bear the responsibility..... How exactly is Bush responsible for "worldwide problems" three years after he left office and a recession that was ended 2.5 years ago?

sappstuf
9/10/2011, 12:31 PM
Finally found it... Straight from the NYTimes no less!

He says that the Obama administration used $1.50 as their multiplier. He shows that number was completely wrong. He then cuts it in half to 75 cents and shows that it would not even have lived up to that number.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/the-minimal-impact-of-the-stimulus/

The multiplier was probably 50 cents or less.. A complete waste of money.

diverdog
9/10/2011, 02:23 PM
Go back and watch the video... He is claiming that food stamps are an economic stimulus and that every dollar spent on food creates $1.84.

Impossible. The only way to get to $1.84 is if you pretend that the consumer would have spent zero on food without the food stamps. That is exactly what Zandi did. That isn't happening and isn't realistic. But it is the exact lala land theory Obama based the stimulus on.

Fiscal multipliers do not have to be north of a $1. I read somewhere, but now I cannot find it that the actual effect of Obama's stimulus was about 73 cents for every dollar spent. In another words, it failed to raise the GDP like predicted based on the multipliers Obama used, in fact GDP continued to fall after the stimulus was passed. Of course, we already knew that didn't we?

Sapp:

Not all dollars spent have the same multiplier effect. The professor based his opinion on the entire spending bill and not a single source. Basically treating it all as cash which is disingenous at best. Food stamps are put immediately into the economy and have an immediate impact. Other things not so much. For instance long term projects. There is a ton of math that is used to make these assumptions and generally it is accurate.

CrimsonCream
9/12/2011, 06:00 PM
Obama is such a sleazy, greasy bastard and one that cannot tell the truth. He proposing Stimulus II. Wonder if he'll laugh about this one like he did the first.

He says he's going to tax the wealthy and the corporations. You mean the corporations that actually pay taxes? I'm surprised that anybody falls for that line anymore. What do you think the higher taxed corporations will do? Maintain prices?

By the way, do we have a Federal budget yet? Where's the corrupt media?

sappstuf
9/12/2011, 09:00 PM
http://global.nationalreview.com/images/cartoon_091211_A.jpg

REDREX
9/12/2011, 09:21 PM
The only job Barack cares about is his own

Veritas
9/12/2011, 09:23 PM
Point of order. You don't bare responsibility, unless you have your responsibility smartly dressed in a berber suit and it does a sexy show-all striptease.

You bear responsibility in the same sense that you bear a burden. Bear as in carry, not this guy:

2354

I gotta tell you, Baylor does the noble ursus arctos horribilis a disservice.

diverdog
9/13/2011, 06:04 AM
Point of order. You don't bare responsibility, unless you have your responsibility smartly dressed in a berber suit and it does a sexy show-all striptease.

You bear responsibility in the same sense that you bear a burden. Bear as in carry, not this guy:

2354

I gotta tell you, Baylor does the noble ursus arctos horribilis a disservice.

I come on these boards to learn and you just taught me something I have been wrong about for years. Thank you.

sappstuf
9/19/2011, 08:48 AM
I'm glad the OP used the word "plan" instead of a "bill", because Obama's plan is still nothing more than words... You know.. That URGENT bill Obama keeps blabbing about? Urgent!! URGENT!!

I wonder how urgent the Dems in the Senate think it is..


CROWLEY: When is the bill going to get on the floor?

DURBIN: The bill is on the calendar. Majority leader Reid moved it to the calendar. It is ready and poised. There are a couple other items we may get into this week not on the bill and some related issues that may create jobs. But we're going to move forward on the president's bill. There will be a healthy debate. I hope the Republicans will come to...

CROWLEY: After the recess, so next month? Or when will it actually begin to act on?

DURBIN: I think that's more realistic it would be next month.

Apparently even Dems completely blow off the president now... Obama is as irrelevant as they come.

CrimsonCream
9/19/2011, 05:10 PM
Apparently even Dems completely blow off the president now... Obama is as irrelevant as they come.

I thought that's all they did for the first two years with Pelosi being the main blower.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
9/19/2011, 07:19 PM
I thought that's all they did for the first two years with Pelosi being the main blower.They needed an accomplice at the top to get their dirty work done. The Obear filled the bill.

CrimsonCream
9/20/2011, 02:04 PM
Go back and watch the video... He is claiming that food stamps are an economic stimulus and that every dollar spent on food creates $1.84.

Yeah, isn't that some bullsh*t.

badger
10/11/2011, 11:45 AM
Well, looks like it's headed for death.

Link (http://newsok.com/senate-republicans-likely-to-kill-obama-jobs-bill/article/feed/305884?custom_click=headlines_widget)

The Dems have to be feeling a sense of regret about their first two Obama years right about now. When they could have been passing legislation like this through without Republican options for opposition, they were instead forcing Obamacare through and ended up not having time to pass anything else major before the 2010 switcheroo at the midterm, resulting in Republican Senate filibuster power and Republican House control.

A big lost opportunity on their part.

TUSooner
10/11/2011, 11:47 AM
Well, looks like it's headed for death.

Link (http://newsok.com/senate-republicans-likely-to-kill-obama-jobs-bill/article/feed/305884?custom_click=headlines_widget)

The Dems have to be feeling a sense of regret about their first two Obama years right about now. When they could have been passing legislation like this through without Republican options for opposition, they were instead forcing Obamacare through and ended up not having time to pass anything else major before the 2010 switcheroo at the midterm, resulting in Republican Senate filibuster power and Republican House control.

A big lost opportunity on their part.
looks that way.

badger
10/11/2011, 11:51 AM
I really have no idea how Obama could have anticipated anything differently, based on the way he's been pushing it.

The fact that it'll die in the Senate has to sting the most. That's the one Dems still have control over and they can't get it through.

sappstuf
10/11/2011, 11:52 AM
Well, looks like it's headed for death.

Link (http://newsok.com/senate-republicans-likely-to-kill-obama-jobs-bill/article/feed/305884?custom_click=headlines_widget)

The Dems have to be feeling a sense of regret about their first two Obama years right about now. When they could have been passing legislation like this through without Republican options for opposition, they were instead forcing Obamacare through and ended up not having time to pass anything else major before the 2010 switcheroo at the midterm, resulting in Republican Senate filibuster power and Republican House control.

A big lost opportunity on their part.

They did pass legislation like this... Almost exactly alike only this one is smaller. It was called the stimulus. That and the Obamacare bill were the reasons Repubs took the House and closed the gap in the Senate.. That and this graph.. With reality being appropriately in red..

http://uselectionnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/employmentchart2.jpg

sappstuf
10/11/2011, 11:54 AM
I really have no idea how Obama could have anticipated anything differently, based on the way he's been pushing it.

The fact that it'll die in the Senate has to sting the most. That's the one Dems still have control over and they can't get it through.

Harry had to go nuclear and change the Senate rules just to keep a vote from happening on the bill.

If you thought things moved slowly in the Senate before, just wait. Harry has opened a big can of worms that may haunt Dems for a long time.

badger
10/11/2011, 11:57 AM
Harry had to go nuclear and change the Senate rules just to keep a vote from happening on the bill.

If you thought things moved slowly in the Senate before, just wait. Harry has opened a big can of worms that may haunt Dems for a long time.

Politics tend to out incompetence even in the most competent people.

You're right about the stimulus, hadn't thought about that part of it. I was mostly thinking about the millionaire tax. They could have gotten that by a Dem House and Dem Senate (without Republican filibuster power). Now... no chance in hell, even with Obama rallying (DEMOCRATIC) voters in Republican states. Seriously Obama... why do you think Republicans will listen to the voters that didn't vote them into office?

NormanPride
10/11/2011, 04:02 PM
I don't think anyone will get elected next November. They are all un-electable.

JohnnyMack
10/11/2011, 04:09 PM
I don't think anyone will get elected next November. They are all un-electable.

Maybe we'll get lucky and have a zombie apocalypse first.

NormanPride
10/11/2011, 04:22 PM
I would vote for Robot Nixon in a heartbeat over these loons. His shiny robot body is spectacular.

CrimsonCream
10/11/2011, 04:50 PM
Agreed.

The comeback to that is, "What makes you think that this $437 billion will work when $857 billion didn't? By the way, where did all that money go?"

All the Republicans need to do is nominate someone that will grab Obama's balls and squeeze hard everytime he goes into his lying bullsh!t mode.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
10/11/2011, 04:58 PM
Agreed.

The comeback to that is, "What makes you think that this $437 billion will work when $857 billion didn't? By the way, where did all that money go?"

All the Republicans need to do is nominate someone that will grab Obama's balls and squeeze hard everytime he goes into his lying bullsh!t mode.You are NOT currying favor with our multitude of board commies...whatsa matta witchu?

CrimsonCream
10/11/2011, 06:13 PM
You are NOT currying favor with our multitude of board commies...whatsa matta witchu?

It is totally beyond me how any rational American thinks that this sleazy, lying, corrupt mother f*cker is good for this Country. I mean somebody please tell me two things that has benefited the Country.

Yes, I wanted to believe all of Obama's campaign bullsh!t and wanted him to do well but as we know now that's all it was. Bull****!

OklahomaTuba
10/12/2011, 09:20 AM
Of course, he is going to continue to bemoan the repubs for not passing it because most of his supporters (that are left) are too dumb or uninformed.

FIFY.

landrun
10/12/2011, 09:36 AM
It is totally beyond me how any rational American thinks that this sleazy, lying, corrupt mother f*cker is good for this Country. I mean somebody please tell me two things that has benefited the Country.

Yes, I wanted to believe all of Obama's campaign bullsh!t and wanted him to do well but as we know now that's all it was. Bull****!

What is sad is that the people he's hurt the most (the poor and uneducated) love him the most and will gladly vote for him again.

All he and the democrats have to do is spew off some catch phrase like, "the rich aren't paying their fair share" ... "we'll provide heath care for everyone for free" ... "the Republicans want black people hanging in trees" etc... and they buy it all. You can't get too dumb for this segment of the Democrat base. At the same time, I don't think any logic or sound argument or genuine care for them can change their mind. It's like a cult in a lot of respects.

East Coast Bias
10/12/2011, 10:27 AM
Again a difference in ideology is creating an unsolvable impasse. Republicans believe money and tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations trickle down and grow the economy.This has been proven wrong time and time again. They just put the money into their pockets and grow their own wealth.This is happening right now. The Dems believe entitlements and government spending puts energy into the economy, however this doesn't create growth.One does however have to admit that the poor people spend every dime they get from whereever it comes. For myself I would like to see the military cut severely. We spend 10 times what any other country does(check out the numbers). I would rather balance the budget or spend the money here than spend a billion dollars a day on these foreign wars. When we leave(and we will leave) they will go back to feudal rule like they have for thousands of years.The man with the biggest stick will kill his enemies and take over....

East Coast Bias
10/12/2011, 10:36 AM
And the problem we liberals have with Obama is that he has let the republicans and tea party run over him.He should have held his ground and not moved to the middle in an effort to generate political support. He was elected with a lot of support and that support is still out there if he can get back to effecting change.The polls on many of these issues are on his side , he just needs to remember why he was elected and take his message back to the people.All politics is cyclical, we are all trying to scratch an itch that keeps coming back. The minute Obama was elected, he was on the way out, just like all these tea-baggers will be on the next bus out.

badger
10/12/2011, 10:43 AM
Sooo... if it wasn't brought up already, the Senate voted it down.

Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=13&articleid=20111012_13_A4_UISSeN760576)


The $447 billion plan died on a 50-49 tally that garnered a majority of the 100-member Senate but fell well short of the 60 votes needed to keep the bill alive. The tally had been 51-48, but Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., switched his vote to "nay" so that he could force a future revote.

Of course, the current Senate split if I'm not mistaken is 53-47, so this means a Dem other than Reid voted this down.

Anyone know who?

EDIT: Here you go:


Democrats Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Jon Tester of Montana - both up for re-election next year in states where Obama figures to lose - broke with their party on Tuesday night's vote. Every Republican present opposed the plan. Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., was recuperating from surgery and didn't vote.

In case you didn't hear, Coburn is fighting his third bout with cancer. Link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20111011_11_0_WASHIN335665). Hope he keeps fighting cancer and wasteful government spending... but definitely cancer.

sappstuf
10/12/2011, 11:14 AM
Yep. Once again Obama has created bipartisan support.... Against his bill.

badger
10/12/2011, 11:16 AM
I am not sure the voters of Nebbish or Montana are going to be impressed with their Dem senators voting against the Obama bill. As the 2006 and 2008 election proved, the letter behind your name meant a lot more to voter anger than your voting record... and there is sooooo many angry voters out there right about now

CrimsonCream
10/13/2011, 04:55 PM
he was on the way out, just like all these tea-baggers will be on the next bus out.

Hardly.

Obama created the TEA Party with his corrupt Administration. Pelosi referred to them as astro turf. The TEA Party then proceeded to kick her @ss.

badger
10/17/2011, 02:15 PM
With the jobs bill failure, Obama is trying a different method of getting it passed: Smaller peas!

Link (http://newsok.com/obama-seeks-votes-on-jobs-piece-by-piece/article/feed/307719?custom_click=headlines_widget)

I am not sure the broken up bill will make the Senate or the House want to eat their peas, though. As that article mentioned, they also have an overdue spending bill and planned vacations coming up soon.