View Full Version : Elephant in the room? Haven't seen anyone mention the defense
Giving up 400 yards?
Giving up big plays?
Missed assignments, missed tackles?
Is anyone concerned as I am? Will Travis make up the difference?
Dang it! I was looking for perfection!!!
LVSOONER15
9/4/2011, 09:23 AM
The defense seemed to play well. Harris messed up on two big plays. Hell we held this good Tulsa team to 14 points, I give the defense a lot of credit.
1890MilesToNorman
9/4/2011, 09:23 AM
I recall 2 blown assignments that account for 100 of those yards and one score. Coaches about blew a gasket from what I saw.
UTgradOUfan
9/4/2011, 09:32 AM
Tulsa was a ten win team last year(exactly twice the wins the whorns had) and is no patsy.
We did have some glaring busts but by and large it was an impressive effort by the the D and the team as a whole. For a first game is was impressively mistake and penalty free.
I did not see another team yesterday who we could not have beaten.
It's early in the season but I think we are deserving of our #1 ranking.
Great effort by our players and coaches!
Soonermagik
9/4/2011, 09:33 AM
Lol.. they only gave up 14 points to a solid team. They had a few busted plays, but it was game one, so that's not insane. The defense looked really good.. like 2 picks, sacks, hurried the QB etc..
To hold Tulsa to 14 points was very impressive!!!
bluedogok
9/4/2011, 09:35 AM
Tulsa was one of the best offensive teams in the nation last year and they have many of the key offensive personnel back this season including Kinne. They moved the ball on everyone last season, other than some blown assignments which resulted in the scores the defensive played an overall good first game.
Did you watch the Utah State game last year? This defense is way ahead of where we were a year ago and they improved throughout the season. The defense is physical, athletic, the defensive line (supposedly a weak point) played really well, and Tony Jefferson is the best open field tackler since Roy Williams. The blown assignments are a correctable issue through two weeks of encouragement on the practice field.
agoo758
9/4/2011, 09:38 AM
It's really hard to imagine we gave up that many yards, but all that matters is that we kept out of the endzone for the most part. Hopefully Harris can fix whatever problem it was last night.
delhalew
9/4/2011, 09:41 AM
Some people are clueless.
pphilfran
9/4/2011, 09:50 AM
Some people are clueless.
this
Turd_Ferguson
9/4/2011, 09:57 AM
Fire Venables!!!
Dang it! I was looking for perfection!!!
I repeat
Tulsa was a ten win team last year(exactly twice the wins the whorns had) and is no patsy.
We did have some glaring busts but by and large it was an impressive effort by the the D and the team as a whole. For a first game is was impressively mistake and penalty free.
I did not see another team yesterday who we could not have beaten.
It's early in the season but I think we are deserving of our #1 ranking.
Great effort by our players and coaches!
True that, but they were without their 2nd team AA wide receiver / kick returner and they were breaking in a new coaching staff.
At this point, we are not a championship defense. A coverage bust in a big game can be the difference between a W and a L, the difference between winning a BCS title and winning a BCS bowl game. We had two on the same wheel route and there was another that caused a big gain.
All in all, the D played good, but they still show the cabability of giving up big plays. Hopefully, they will continue to improve and grow into the type of defense needed to win a MNC.
BOOMER
delhalew
9/4/2011, 10:10 AM
I repeat
No one gets perfection in the first game. You could at least wait till Lewis gets back to have ridiculous expectations.
pphilfran
9/4/2011, 10:11 AM
True that, but they were without their 2nd team AA wide receiver / kick returner and they were breaking in a new coaching staff.
At this point, we are not a championship defense. A coverage bust in a big game can be the difference between a W and a L, the difference between winning a BCS title and winning a BCS bowl game. We had two on the same wheel route and there was another that caused a big gain.
All in all, the D played good, but they still show the cabability of giving up big plays. Hopefully, they will continue to improve and grow into the type of defense needed to win a MNC.
BOOMER
It was the first game of the year against a passing team..
BudSooner
9/4/2011, 10:11 AM
True that, but they were without their 2nd team AA wide receiver / kick returner and they were breaking in a new coaching staff.
At this point, we are not a championship defense. A coverage bust in a big game can be the difference between a W and a L, the difference between winning a BCS title and winning a BCS bowl game. We had two on the same wheel route and there was another that caused a big gain.
All in all, the D played good, but they still show the cabability of giving up big plays. Hopefully, they will continue to improve and grow into the type of defense needed to win a MNC.
BOOMERAnd they had Kinne the C-USA offensive player of 2011 that made some good throws, and can take off at will.
It's just first game rust, no huge concerns.
CBUS_SOONER
9/4/2011, 10:21 AM
I'm more concerned about kicking field goals. We may lose a game because our kickers smell
PSK2080
9/4/2011, 10:22 AM
Tulsa's NCAA ranks for total offense and scoring offense the past 4 years:
2010 #5 total offense (505.62 ypg) & #6 scoring offense (41.38 ppg)
2009 #35 (410.08) & #44 (29.25)
2008 #1 (569.86) & #2 (47.21)
2007 #1 (543.93) & #6 (41.14)
Tulsa's offense has been (and will be again this season) very good. Alot of Tulsa's yardage came after OU had a 30 point lead and came on a few plays. Last year TU was 10-3 and scored 28 or more points in 12 out of their 13 games. They scored more than 40 points 7 times. Our defense played pretty well, all things considered.
SoonerFan303
9/4/2011, 10:22 AM
and Tony Jefferson is the best open field tackler since Roy Williams.
Jefferson stood out like crazy. Very excited about this kids ability. He has 1st or 2nd round written all over him for sure.
JLEW1818
9/4/2011, 10:23 AM
miscommunications will be fixed during these two weeks.
bluedogok
9/4/2011, 10:24 AM
The biggest improvement is usually from game 1 to game 2.
I no longer expect "perfection" on defense, the way offenses are anymore even at "bad schools" has fundamentally changed the game. Expecting the defense to be that of the mid-80's defenses is pretty much beyond any reasonable expectation. At least we didn't lose in OT to a I-AA team (Oregon State) or need an onside kick to get into position to win (Auburn).
Don't you think Mack Brown wishes that Kinne would have stuck around and waited Colt out instead of transferring to Tulsa? He is a pretty good college QB.
For those of you at the game, FX broadcast was calling out #30 and showing the coaches chewing him out after a few plays that he got beat. They were saying BV practiced the wheel route all week and #30 was getting behind several times, to the point of giving up those few touchdowns, yeah.
I felt bad for the kid. It looked like he was just matched with a faster receiver.
cherokeebrewer
9/4/2011, 10:39 AM
Frank Alexander had a great game and kudos to Tom Wort...he played with heart.
cantwait48
9/4/2011, 10:42 AM
I thought the D was rusty but was very impressed with the athleticism and overall potential
For those of you at the game, FX broadcast was calling out #30 and showing the coaches chewing him out after a few plays that he got beat. They were saying BV practiced the wheel route all week and #30 was getting behind several times, to the point of giving up those few touchdowns, yeah.
I felt bad for the kid. It looked like he was just matched with a faster receiver.
It was Javon Harris...looked to me like he just took a few bad angles and biting on the out route part of the wheel play. I think he'll learn from it and improve. Overall I thought our defense looked good and everyone swarming the football...only allowed 14 points to a team that averaged 43 last year. Tulsa has a legit offense and except for a few mental lapses our defense shut them down.
I was looking for perfection!!!
Herein lies your problem.
SoonerinSouthlake
9/4/2011, 10:50 AM
seems to me the the D always gets torched a bit in game 1...
I think its probably tougher for the D to get ready for game speed because you have get the feeling back of anticipating the moves of someone you dont play against every day.
The other thing that seems to be true year in and year out....people are UNDERWHELMED by our performance in game based on stats, scoreboard, or some holes they see. But we tighten up and more importantly, we see that the opponent we chose for game turns out to be a dang good football team who is racking up a lot of wins.
thecrimsoncrusader
9/4/2011, 10:53 AM
When Oklahoma made the score 30-0, Tulsa had 34 passing yards and 32 rushing yards at that point and the game was over. Whatever happened after that was dictated by Oklahoma, not Tulsa.
Herein lies your problem.
But but...we're Oklahoma damn it!
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 11:55 AM
When Oklahoma made the score 30-0, Tulsa had 34 passing yards and 32 rushing yards at that point and the game was over. Whatever happened after that was dictated by Oklahoma, not Tulsa.
^This. The few mistakes stood out like a sore thumb because there weren't that many. They also provided great "coaching points" for the next 2 weeks. When the coaches emphasize that a mistake can cost points, they have concrete examples. The corner blitz w/o coverage rotation cost the defense 7 and Franks trying to stretch the ball at the goal line cost the offense 7 (or at least 3).
I felt bad for Harris in his first real start, but this is the time to sort those things out. FSU will be a different sort of challenge because their QB is not nearly as good as Kinne, so we could get away with a coverage bust or 2. They will bring more balance and a more physical running game, so getting off blocks and making clean tackles will be more of a premium. I thought we looked pretty good in those areas.
AlboSooner
9/4/2011, 12:10 PM
Stoops,
Y U NO FIRE BV?
En_Fuego
9/4/2011, 12:23 PM
I thought the D played excellent except for a few communication busts.
hawaii 5-0
9/4/2011, 12:30 PM
Tulsa was playing with more than one arm behind their back. Damaris Johnson is the real deal for their offense and special teams. Led the nation last year in all purpose yards.
Anyone remember a few years back when we played Cincy? Marty Gilyard was a one man wrecking crew against our defense. He ripped us a new one.
Johnson is every bit as good and Tulsa had to play without him.
Just sayin'. Last night's game woulda been a bit different. OU woulda still won but the defense woulda been even more exposed.
5-0
IronHorseSooner
9/4/2011, 12:33 PM
I think this game is exactly what the coaches wanted- good enough for them to have confidence, got back-ups in, no injuries, and teachable moments. I counted what was only five mistakes throughout the game- the three coverage busts (two on wheel routes), one missed PAT (where Jimmy pulled his hammy), and Franks' fumble (on which the TU DB made a good play). All of these are easily correctable, and, agreed, Kinne is a better and more seasoned QB than Manuel, but they will look to try to run the ball more than TU did.
IronHorseSooner
9/4/2011, 12:42 PM
Tulsa was playing with more than one arm behind their back. Darius Johnson is the real deal for their offense and special teams. Led the nation last year in all purpose yards.
Anyone remember a few years back when we played Cincy? Marty Gilyard was a one man wrecking crew against our defense. He ripped us a new one.
Johnson is every bit as good and Tulsa had to play without him.
Just sayin'. Last night's game woulda been a bit different. OU woulda still won but the defense woulda been even more exposed.
5-0
This can also be counterbalanced with us not having TLEW in the game. Both are next-level talents. Them not having their starting CB and us not having Stills one could also say that it was about the same. However, good point made.
stoopified
9/4/2011, 12:49 PM
Not bad for game one.
hawaii 5-0
9/4/2011, 01:22 PM
True that. The Offense looked mid-season and the Defense, tho a few errors, played intensly.
5-0
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 01:30 PM
There will always be some errors - no such thing as a perfect game. I got the feeling that the bust on the corner blitz may have been a coaching error the Stoops/BV/Martinez were jawing at each other. The big gains on the 2 wheel routes were obviously Harris' fault. It was really good for us to have Kinne as the first opponent because he was good enough to burn us on mistakes, but his team was not good enough to beat us. That was our only rehearsal before FSU and they get another one, so I'm glad ours was quality. Kinne is not only good skill-wise and decision making, the guy is a brute! He is a big man and hard to bring down.
Sooner_Tuf
9/4/2011, 01:56 PM
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Tulsa has a good offense but the stats are little bit skewed by the conference they play in. As mentioned they were missing some starters. Even still we did get lucky they turned the ball over inside the five or that most likely would have been a touchdown. We did do a good job defending the pass except for the obvious busts. What surprised me was how many 8-10 yard gains they had on the ground.
The D played pretty well overall but I don't think they did as good as many here are saying. Four hundred yards is still four hundred yards and that is not a shut down performance. We better get the big busts figured out or that will cost us a game or two.
Tulsa was missing their return guy but I was still happy we didn't give up any big returns. Special teams were pretty good. We played probably the most vanilla I have ever seen us play on returns. I don't think we tried to return anything yesterday. I don't know if we were being nice because we didn't need the returns or if we were protecting our returners. I would like to think we were being smart and it was the latter.
Overall it was a very good performance by the Sooners, especially taking into consideration how vanilla we played. We didn't stretch the field very much. I was surprised we didn't throw downfield more. I think we could have put more points up had we wanted to. We pretty much just ran the ball in the second half, smart move I think. We didn't pin our ears back and go after Kinne very much and we could have.
The score could have been much uglier. Tulsa played better than fourteen points too. They very well could have scored twenty one or twenty eight and almost did.
I didn't see much to get worried about. We had too many drops in the passing game. We gave up too many big plays. Other than that I think it was as good a first game as we have played in several years.
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 02:00 PM
This can also be counterbalanced with us not having TLEW in the game. Both are next-level talents. Them not having their starting CB and us not having Stills one could also say that it was about the same. However, good point made.
Strange, watching Nelson I thought he was an upgrade at linebacker over Lewis. He at least crashes the LOS and makes a pile instead of chicken fighting with the OL.
Some thoughts...
Harris struggled with the wheel route in those ESPNU videos. He just wasn't picking up his keys on when to pass off the interior route to get outside. Then when he did go out he took a horribly shallow angle on that fullback and let him get behind him. Both times he was looking at the QB and not the FB and really had no idea where he was on the field. The problem for Harris is that he's a great royback playing out of position because there is a better royback on the team (Jefferson). The question for the coaches is whether you give up Harris's ability against the run and go with Gabe Lynn full time.
Our DT play is worrisome. Any time Tulsa wanted to push us, they buried us up front.
RJ Washington looked good but I can see why he isn't playing more. Our defense, with our current mediocre linebacker play, just doesn't have room for a bull rusher. The DEs have to stay home and crash down to keep those interior zone plays to a 1-2 yard gain. He kind of reminds me of an Alan Davis type (Cordero Moore) who has the best Sack/Play ratio on the team, but is only used rarely, because he's a liability in the run game.
GJ Kinne is fairly elusive. I think we had him sacked 4-5 times and he escaped. We'll see against FSU if it was just him or if we have a chronic problem.
Bill Blankenship isn't very good at film study. The cut blocking was counter-productive because it clogged the running lanes. Any time they went hat on hat, they won the LOS. The guard blocking Wort figured this out about the 2nd quarter and the chicken fighting commenced.
Anyway, our defense still resembles a twinkie
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 02:03 PM
400 yds is not a big deal in the context of when they got them (down 30-0). Tulsa may have good stats due to competition, but Kinne is for real and would be in any conference. I'm sure the horns are wishing he hadn't have transferred. As long as our offense has a goal of running 90 plays a game and the extra possessions that implies, we will not have a top 10 defense. And by top 10, I mean in total yards allowed. If we can get in the top 20 at the same time the offense is clicking, that will be a dominant squad.
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 02:09 PM
400 yds is not a big deal in the context of when they got them (down 30-0). Tulsa may have good stats due to competition, but Kinne is for real and would be in any conference. I'm sure the horns are wishing he hadn't have transferred. As long as our offense has a goal of running 90 plays a game and the extra possessions that implies, we will not have a top 10 defense. And by top 10, I mean in total yards allowed. If we can get in the top 20 at the same time the offense is clicking, that will be a dominant squad.
We gave up 4.2 yards/rush and 6.2 yards per play.
C&CDean
9/4/2011, 02:16 PM
I'm no crystal ballin' seer like jkm, but I will say this: No other team Tulsa plays will hold them to 14-points or less. Anybody wanna bet?
I'm no crystal ballin' seer like jkm, but I will say this: No other team Tulsa plays will hold them to 14-points or less. Anybody wanna bet?
badger! Book it!
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 02:23 PM
I'm no crystal ballin' seer like jkm, but I will say this: No other team Tulsa plays will hold them to 14-points or less. Anybody wanna bet?
Its hard to say since so much is predicated on Kinne. If he has a bad game in one of those crazy road games of theirs (@UCF @Boise) it could happen.
Sooner_Tuf
9/4/2011, 02:28 PM
If Tulsa doesn't improve ball security in the red zone they won't put up 40+ a game this year.
SoonerMarkVA
9/4/2011, 02:29 PM
Clearly we need a sarcasm emoticon. Because apparently even beating them over the head often isn't enough.
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 02:30 PM
We gave up 4.2 yards/rush and 6.2 yards per play.
And as I said, how many yards did they have and at what average before they were down 30-0?
Yards and yds/play were heavily skewed by a few big busts. There will aways be a few mistakes but I doubt will see as many that result in big plays in the future - we'll find out soon enough. If Harris continues to the big mistakes, he will be on the bench.
fadada1
9/4/2011, 02:30 PM
we gave up 3-4 big plays to a multi-dimensional team with a seasoned QB. 2 of those big plays came on a blown assignment by the same player; another came in the 4th with backup players.
i agree, no other team will keep them to 14 points - regardless of the outcome of the game.
very pleased with the defensive performance.
EXTATIC with the play of the offense.
VA Sooner
9/4/2011, 02:48 PM
Stats are what they are.
A passing team with a mobile QB (and a damn good one at that) who was willing to risk a lot more in the second half when they're down that much. The first busted assignment was a miscommunication... Javon didn't get the signal to cover the receiver while Fleming went on a corner blitz. The wheel route is an inexperienced one's mistake... he'll be reviewing that game film over and over again for the next 2 weeks.
Best to learn weaknesses this week against a very good, high-powered offensive team like Tulsa than in Tallahassee in two weeks. A faster but not as tough mobile QB and a much better defense awaits.
A very good game last night against a very good team. Offense is balanced and loaded.
Here's to Landry's health!
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 02:48 PM
And as I said, how many yards did they have and at what average before they were down 30-0?
Yards and yds/play were heavily skewed by a few big busts. There will aways be a few mistakes but I doubt will see as many that result in big plays in the future - we'll find out soon enough. If Harris continues to the big mistakes, he will be on the bench.
They stuck with him a LOT longer than any player that busted like that in the past. Remember the guy that gave up one play in the first game of the year as a RS FR and then didn't see the field until his SR year (Clayton?)? The only time that I've seen them stick with a player like this is when they didn't feel like they had an option.
boomersooner28
9/4/2011, 03:31 PM
Javon Harris had to have "wheel route" nightmares last night. They got him TWICE with that damn route.
Javon Harris had to have "wheel route" nightmares last night. They got him TWICE with that damn route.
I'll lay down a benjamin and say that #30 will NOT get burned on a wheel route vs. halFasSU.
BOOMER
Tulsa's NCAA ranks for total offense and scoring offense the past 4 years:
2010 #5 total offense (505.62 ypg) & #6 scoring offense (41.38 ppg)
2009 #35 (410.08) & #44 (29.25)
2008 #1 (569.86) & #2 (47.21)
2007 #1 (543.93) & #6 (41.14)
Tulsa's offense has been (and will be again this season) very good. Alot of Tulsa's yardage came after OU had a 30 point lead and came on a few plays. Last year TU was 10-3 and scored 28 or more points in 12 out of their 13 games. They scored more than 40 points 7 times. Our defense played pretty well, all things considered.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Uhh, this is college football and previous success is not necessarily a predictor of future success. Just ask ol' 5-7 down South of the Red.
BOOMER
JiminyChristmas
9/4/2011, 04:15 PM
I thought I had heard at one point when Travis Lewis went down, that they had to shuffle a few positions and that's why Javon Harris is starting.
When Travis comes back, isn't the plan that Corey Nelson moves out to the "Roy" position and Tony Jefferson moves back to safety? Maybe I'm making that up...
Good opening night performance. GJ Kinne > EJ Manuel, BY FAR. No way FSU will be able to score enough to keep up with us.
GameWarden
9/4/2011, 04:19 PM
I remember last year, Q. Carter busted on some deep passes early last season. The defense needs a little work, but with offenses being what they are today, everyone gets beat now and then. Hopefully your safety, Javon in this case, catches the guy before he scores.
pphilfran
9/4/2011, 04:30 PM
Tulsa had 14 possessions...two scores...one possession ended at the first half...8 punts...3 turnovers...
cccasooner2
9/4/2011, 04:39 PM
I remember last year, Q. Carter busted on some deep passes early last season. The defense needs a little work, but with offenses being what they are today, everyone gets beat now and then. Hopefully your safety, Javon in this case, catches the guy before he scores.
I seem to remember J. Nelson chasing guys into the EZ alot early in the year.
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 04:46 PM
Tulsa had 14 possessions...two scores...one possession ended at the first half...8 punts...3 turnovers...
That's a lot of possessions and just part of the tradeoff of having an offense that tries to run 90+ plays. The defense will give up more yds and pts than if the offense tried to slow the game down. It an approach that I love, but will always disappoint fans that would rather watch a dominating defense.
So when we get Lewis back and move Jefferson to safety where Harris is now, are we worried that Jefferson will have problems like Harris did? Or does his experience playing last year help him out?
Breadburner
9/4/2011, 04:50 PM
Who cares what they do between the 20's.......
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 04:53 PM
They stuck with him a LOT longer than any player that busted like that in the past. Remember the guy that gave up one play in the first game of the year as a RS FR and then didn't see the field until his SR year (Clayton?)? The only time that I've seen them stick with a player like this is when they didn't feel like they had an option.
Could be, but Harris is not a freshman and they should have a better feel for his capabilities even though this was his first real start. I certainly wouldn't throw him under the bus yet, but his leash would get shorter and I'd have a plan B. I do think the hook can be too quick in some cases and the one that I didn't like was Cam Kenney last year. He had some drops that hurt us, but showed so much when he was catching. I would have reduced his snaps, but tried to build his confidence back instead of burying on the bench for most the season. Fortunately, he came on big time against OSU and NU and he was clearly the best option.
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 05:01 PM
Who cares what they do between the 20's.......
I care, because it is much easier to score from 20 yards out than 80. Because of this fact, allowing teams to move between the 20's at will does 2 things -> gives the other team a lot higher chance to score on us and makes it much more difficult for us to score on them because we have continuously poor field position.
OUInformant
9/4/2011, 05:09 PM
Giving up 400 yards?
Giving up big plays?
Missed assignments, missed tackles?
Is anyone concerned as I am? Will Travis make up the difference?
Dang it! I was looking for perfection!!!
What?
We only gave up 14 points to a 10-win team that has the Conference USA player of the year at QB, a veteran OLine, and averaged 44 pts/game a year ago. 400 yards came on a couple of plays.
Javon blew a few assignments, but was the leading tackler on the defense. No he didn't get beat, just messed up, which is nothing out of the ordinary for a first game.
Maybe if we played Kent St. or Louisiana-Monroe and won 70-0, giving up only 150 yards of total offense, would you be happy.
Breadburner
9/4/2011, 05:18 PM
I care, because it is much easier to score from 20 yards out than 80. Because of this fact, allowing teams to move between the 20's at will does 2 things -> gives the other team a lot higher chance to score on us and makes it much more difficult for us to score on them because we have continuously poor field position.
You missed my point entirely.....
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 05:19 PM
So when we get Lewis back and move Jefferson to safety where Harris is now, are we worried that Jefferson will have problems like Harris did? Or does his experience playing last year help him out?
The bigger problem MAY be run defense when Lewis gets back. I say "may" because I can't be sure that the coaches didn't emphasize to our DTs to protect against the cut blocks first, stop the run second (since we lost a DT one year against Tulsa's cut blocks). So assuming that caveat...
Our DTs were being blocked 1 on 1 against Tulsa allowing the guards to leak out onto the linebackers. Thus far in his career, Lewis has shown little ability to shed a blocker and close a hole (which Nelson did on 2 occasions against TU). We just look very susceptible to delays/draws/smashmouth.
The defense played solid smash mouth football.
They played a good game against a good offensive FB team and got burned twice, on a couple of fixable mistakes....and we are complaining???
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 05:22 PM
Who cares what they do between the 20's.......
I care, because it is much easier to score from 20 yards out than 80. Because of this fact, allowing teams to move between the 20's at will does 2 things -> gives the other team a lot higher chance to score on us and makes it much more difficult for us to score on them because we have continuously poor field position.
Besides, they punted 8 times out of 13 real possessions - they certainly didn't cruise between the 20s.
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 05:32 PM
The defense played solid smash mouth football.
They played a good game against a good offensive FB team and got burned twice, on a couple of fixable mistakes....and we are complaining???
This board only complains about BV and whoever our OC is. This thread is talking about what we have on defense since this was the first game of the season. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't a crime if our defense is bad. Its just that you have to temper your expectations accordingly.
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 05:38 PM
Besides, they punted 8 times out of 13 real possessions - they certainly didn't cruise between the 20s.
Yes, but look at our field position
O26 from Kickoff
O31 from Punt
O27 from Punt
O29 from Punt
O47 from Interception
T47 from Punt
T27 from Fumble
O20 from Kickoff
O38 from Punt
O02 from Fumble
T39 from Punt
O02 from Punt
O29 from Kickoff
O20 from Punt
Considering how short their punts were, we should be seeing most of their punts in the O40-30 range
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 05:50 PM
Yes, but look at our field position
O26 from Kickoff
O31 from Punt
O27 from Punt
O29 from Punt
O47 from Interception
T47 from Punt
T27 from Fumble
O20 from Kickoff
O38 from Punt
O02 from Fumble
T39 from Punt
O02 from Punt
O29 from Kickoff
O20 from Punt
Considering how short their punts were, we should be seeing most of their punts in the O40-30 range
I have no idea what point you are trying to make, but I'm sure it's a good one. My simplistic point was that if they are punting they are not near our 20 yard line and thus are not moving easily between the 20s all game. I have no preconceived idea of where we "should be seeing most their punts". I'm a simple caveman fan - "forcing punts good". "forcing turnovers good". "Allowing points, bad". "Blowing assignments gets you yelled at".
freshchris05
9/4/2011, 05:54 PM
You guys could get a **** job and complain about lipstick.
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 06:02 PM
You guys could get a **** job and complain about lipstick.
Burnt orange lipstick?
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 06:13 PM
I have no idea what point you are trying to make, but I'm sure it's a good one. My simplistic point was that if they are punting they are not near our 20 yard line and thus are not moving easily between the 20s all game. I have no preconceived idea of where we "should be seeing most their punts". I'm a simple caveman fan - "forcing punts good". "forcing turnovers good". "Allowing points, bad". "Blowing assignments gets you yelled at".
Those points are correct. However, another one is "Good Field Position Good". Non-turnover Field position is dictated by how quickly you stop a team in the series, the calibre of opposing punter, and your punt returner. They were giving up a ton of punt yardage to keep broyles out of the game and averaged 37 yards. That means that if they kick from their 25 we should get it on our 38 (thus my 40-30 range).
Mazeppa
9/4/2011, 06:14 PM
Name one team that played a perfect defensive game this weekend?
CBUS_SOONER
9/4/2011, 06:18 PM
We stink... Hope we make a bowl game
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 06:19 PM
Where did these people come from?
CBUS_SOONER
9/4/2011, 06:25 PM
I will wait to judge... Not enuff data in
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 07:48 PM
I will wait to judge... Not enuff data in
Would you agree that we can compare tendencies from last year with this year?
Minuses
We were soft up the middle on run - similar this year.
We had a lot of busts last year - similar this year
Pluses
Landry led us to a TD after Tulsa Scored
The ball was really bouncing our way (unlike last year)
hawaii 5-0
9/4/2011, 08:02 PM
I have no problem with the defense bending a little. Just keep 'em from scoring. If we're backed up I'm OK with the offense running the length of the field to score. I've got much faith in our offense to put points up.
5-0
C&CDean
9/4/2011, 08:04 PM
jkm, with all due respect, you are the fly in the ointment. You are the negative nelly. I just re-watched the game for the 3rd time. 3 plays. Without those 3 plays it's a "dominating, bitch-slapping, whore-thumping, little-brother beat down, drunk step-daddy vs. your fat, old momma beatdown."
Seriously. Tulsa was so over-matched it ain't funny. Seriously. The score could have been 100 - 7 if little Jimmy didn't miss a PAT...
We only gave up 14 points to a 10-win team that has the Conference USA player of the year at QB, a veteran OLine, and averaged 44 pts/game a year ago. 400 yards came on a couple of plays.
Javon blew a few assignments, but was the leading tackler on the defense. No he didn't get beat, just messed up, which is nothing out of the ordinary for a first game.
I am sure this is exactly what Venables is going to say in the team meeting on Monday. (we need a roll eyes smiley)
Not picking on you OUInformant specifically, there have been several other "it's okay because..." type statements. But as it has been mentioned, there are aspects of the defense that need to be worked on. That's what I am trying to say.
tulsaoilerfan
9/4/2011, 08:13 PM
The biggest improvement is usually from game 1 to game 2.
I no longer expect "perfection" on defense, the way offenses are anymore even at "bad schools" has fundamentally changed the game. Expecting the defense to be that of the mid-80's defenses is pretty much beyond any reasonable expectation. At least we didn't lose in OT to a I-AA team (Oregon State) or need an onside kick to get into position to win (Auburn).
Don't you think Mack Brown wishes that Kinne would have stuck around and waited Colt out instead of transferring to Tulsa? He is a pretty good college QB.
Im glad someone gets it; the days or routinely holding your opponent to 200 yards per game and 2-3 shutouts per season are LONG gone and are not coming back
C&CDean
9/4/2011, 08:16 PM
I watched the team come out of their defensive meeting Saturday afternoon about 3 or so. Those boys were ready. All except #30.
tulsaoilerfan
9/4/2011, 08:17 PM
Did we win?
C&CDean
9/4/2011, 08:21 PM
Prolly not.
The Ghost of Mex
9/4/2011, 08:22 PM
Did we win?
I can confirm, we did infact win the game.
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 08:32 PM
Those points are correct. However, another one is "Good Field Position Good". Non-turnover Field position is dictated by how quickly you stop a team in the series, the calibre of opposing punter, and your punt returner. They were giving up a ton of punt yardage to keep broyles out of the game and averaged 37 yards. That means that if they kick from their 25 we should get it on our 38 (thus my 40-30 range).
Sure, if you force a 3 and out on every series, you will win almost every game. I base what I saw against expectations and I don't expect a dominant defense this season. We have mostly the same players as last year minus a couple of important ones (Beal, Carter). We didn't have dominant DTs last season, so unless some young one beats out the returners (which hasn't happened) we don't that the guys in the trenches to stonewall other teams. If folks expect we will have a 'Bama like defense, they will probably be very disappointed. I don't. What I expect is that we need to make the other guy work hard for everything they get. We need to have a good enough pass rush to keep teams from running deep or slow developing pass routes. We need excellent tackling from the DBs to stop yards after catch on the short stuff. The LBs need to plug the holes so that teams can't just run the ball every down and expect to drive very far. In summary, we need a team that will compliment a good offense and make it really hard for the other guy to keep up. I saw us do all those things very well for a 1st game except for the glaring mistakes by Harris. But we knew replacing Carter was an issue and I'm not worried after 1 game.
MR2-Sooner86
9/4/2011, 08:37 PM
no such thing as a perfect game.
http://www.dominick.ws/photos/Fran%2077-0.jpg
proudsoonergal
9/4/2011, 09:20 PM
http://www.dominick.ws/photos/Fran%2077-0.jpg
Dude, that wasn't the perfect game. We didn't score in the fourth quarter! :D
jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
9/4/2011, 09:41 PM
Sure, if you force a 3 and out on every series, you will win almost every game. I base what I saw against expectations and I don't expect a dominant defense this season. We have mostly the same players as last year minus a couple of important ones (Beal, Carter). We didn't have dominant DTs last season, so unless some young one beats out the returners (which hasn't happened) we don't that the guys in the trenches to stonewall other teams. If folks expect we will have a 'Bama like defense, they will probably be very disappointed. I don't. What I expect is that we need to make the other guy work hard for everything they get. We need to have a good enough pass rush to keep teams from running deep or slow developing pass routes. We need excellent tackling from the DBs to stop yards after catch on the short stuff. The LBs need to plug the holes so that teams can't just run the ball every down and expect to drive very far. In summary, we need a team that will compliment a good offense and make it really hard for the other guy to keep up. I saw us do all those things very well for a 1st game except for the glaring mistakes by Harris. But we knew replacing Carter was an issue and I'm not worried after 1 game.
Yes, but this means we are a weaker version of the 2004 team (especially defensively).
Indy Sooner
9/4/2011, 09:46 PM
Strange, watching Nelson I thought he was an upgrade at linebacker over Lewis. He at least crashes the LOS and makes a pile instead of chicken fighting with the OL.
I was thinking the same thing last night. Hope the coaches might consider tweaking the scheme to optimize their LBs' talents. Lewis more of a free-wheeling LB (monster) to take advantage of his speed/blitzing ability?
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 09:59 PM
Yes, but this means we are a weaker version of the 2004 team (especially defensively).
Yeah, sort of similar, but we'll see. That team did go undefeated in the regular season, including beating a good horn squad, so you're talking about a very good team in '04. And there are not any '04 USC squads out there that I see. Somewhat similar to '08 as well, but I can't see us being that good on offense again. This team should be very good and looks well designed to win the conference. If they do manage to get in the title game and face 'Bama or LSU, they would almost certainly be underdogs. But so would any other team until someone can knock off the SEC team.
cccasooner2
9/4/2011, 10:16 PM
Our offense runs too many plays and we are doomed to lose the tackling contest to our opposition. :( + roll eyes
BoulderSooner79
9/4/2011, 10:20 PM
Our offense runs too many plays and we are doomed to lose the tackling contest to our opposition. :( + roll eyes
Er?
C&CDean
9/5/2011, 07:47 AM
If first game trends continue, I foresee our defense getting a lot better due to one little thing. An effective run game. If we can continue to run as well as we did Saturday, the defense will be spending a hell of a lot less time on the field. Less time = less opportunities for the bad guys to score/run plays.
Time will tell...
jk the sooner fan
9/5/2011, 08:08 AM
i thought - absent those three plays - the defense played really well......REALLY well
Tulsa is a team that scores a bunch of points - and runs a ton of offensive plays.....i dont think anybody really thought we'd shut them out - but for a defense that had to adjust to having Lewis out - i thought they applied really good pressure and flustered Tulsa most of the night
room for improvement? sure
perfect? no such thing
jk the sooner fan
9/5/2011, 08:13 AM
You guys could get a **** job and complain about lipstick.
this
NormanPride
9/5/2011, 12:02 PM
Yeah, jkm. I think we are underestimating the influence of the run game on our D's ability to stay fresh and thus win us a game late in the contest. As well, we were missing possibly our best DT in McGee due to a one game suspension. I think with him in there our rotation looks better.
Don't forget, we always seem to make adjustments to technique throughout the year to reflect how our guys are playing. Once we brought out the 50 front last year we started getting a ton more pressure and were able to clean up on runs a lot more. Did we even see it against Tulsa?
VA Sooner
9/5/2011, 01:18 PM
Defense was decent against a very good offensive machine with a veteran line and mobile QB.
As long as kids maintain their positions and don't over-pursue and more importantly, wrap-up on their tackles, we'll be fine. King's whiffed sack on Kinne showed either he was too excited to finally reach the QB and couldn't wrap up or because he was one step into Kinne before his arms could reach around him for the tackle.
But I give credit where credit is due... Kinne is a damn fine QB and I know he will be playing on Sundays. And I'll cheer the kid on (and Tulsa... from here on out of course).
BoulderSooner79
9/5/2011, 01:23 PM
I give Kinne the credit when King went over Kinne. He saw it coming and backed in as you said to offset the timing of the hit and avoid the wrapup. On top of that, Kinne is really big and strong - his butt and legs are enormous. I'd bet real money he will play on Sundays.
picasso
9/5/2011, 02:55 PM
Giving up 400 yards?
Giving up big plays?
Missed assignments, missed tackles?
Is anyone concerned as I am? Will Travis make up the difference?
Dang it! I was looking for perfection!!!
Seriously? They scored 14 points. Did you know Kansas shredded our secondary in 2000 the week before the Texas game.
Calm down.
picasso
9/5/2011, 03:01 PM
Has anybody mentioned that Kinne would be starting at UT right now?
bluedogok
9/5/2011, 03:49 PM
Has anybody mentioned that Kinne would be starting at UT right now?
The only question in that is whether Mack gave Gilbert's dad a promise that Garrett would start after Colt left. Kind of like the Simms/Applewhite situation. He would be much better than anyone they currently have if he would have stayed there.
tooslow
9/5/2011, 04:29 PM
Like previously mentioned, they had 2 huge gains on busted coverage. What concerns me is that FSU will test our backfield much more than Tulsa. I hope we ran a vanilla offense like so many others on here have been saying, but I recall many saying the same thing last year about several of the "weaker" teams we barely beat. Tulsa had a great offense last year. Will they this year? Only time will tell. IMO, and I know it's only after game 1, but our D does appear better than last years version. I do reserve the right to make a more educated decision 2 weeks from now. :D
BoulderSooner79
9/5/2011, 04:40 PM
Like previously mentioned, they had 2 huge gains on busted coverage. What concerns me is that FSU will test our backfield much more than Tulsa. I hope we ran a vanilla offense like so many others on here have been saying, but I recall many saying the same thing last year about several of the "weaker" teams we barely beat. Tulsa had a great offense last year. Will they this year? Only time will tell. IMO, and I know it's only after game 1, but our D does appear better than last years version. I do reserve the right to make a more educated decision 2 weeks from now. :D
I have to disagree - I think Tulsa tested our backfield more than FSU will. FSU will be a much bigger test for our front 7 on defense. They will also be a much bigger test for our O-line and running game on offense.
bluedogok
9/5/2011, 04:47 PM
Like previously mentioned, they had 2 huge gains on busted coverage. What concerns me is that FSU will test our backfield much more than Tulsa. I hope we ran a vanilla offense like so many others on here have been saying, but I recall many saying the same thing last year about several of the "weaker" teams we barely beat. Tulsa had a great offense last year. Will they this year? Only time will tell. IMO, and I know it's only after game 1, but our D does appear better than last years version. I do reserve the right to make a more educated decision 2 weeks from now. :D
...all those games struggling against "weaker opponents" went out the window when they blasted FSU in Norman. I have no doubt they stay pretty vanilla until the first game against a major opponent. That has been what they have done under Stoops during most of his tenure.
LVSOONER15
9/5/2011, 05:05 PM
The offense was pretty vanilla, look for the offense to include Finch alot more against Fay.
Like previously mentioned, they had 2 huge gains on busted coverage. What concerns me is that FSU will test our backfield much more than Tulsa. I hope we ran a vanilla offense like so many others on here have been saying, but I recall many saying the same thing last year about several of the "weaker" teams we barely beat. Tulsa had a great offense last year. Will they this year? Only time will tell. IMO, and I know it's only after game 1, but our D does appear better than last years version. I do reserve the right to make a more educated decision 2 weeks from now. :D
We didn't "barely beat" Tulsa though. This year's OU team looked much better than the team that trotted out against Utah State last year. That bodes well for the remainder of the season -- they will only get better, absent significant injuries.
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