On the poor.

[Veritas]

TU's jumping on me in the World of Class Warfare thread got me to thinking.

I've told this story before, but I spent a few years in Dallas tending bar and waiting tables at Snuffers on Greenville and at a casual seafood place over in Snider Plaza. I also spent a couple of months with a third job at an Italian place a few doors down from the seafood place.

Between these two (sometimes three) jobs I earned just under $45,000 in 2002. Adjusted for inflation, that's about $55,000 in today's money.

These were not glamorous service jobs, if there is such a thing. I had to haul buckets of ice, clean restrooms, and throw out the occasional drunk. Within six months of starting I'd worked things out so that I wasn't working Sundays and Mondays, the most worthless days in the service industry. Of course I worked like a freak from Thursday through Saturday.

These were jobs that anyone could do. You didn't need to be educated, intelligent, or even literate. Sobriety definitely wasn't necessary; I used to go on shift high with a one-hitter in my pocket.

So when I look at the poverty thresholds put out by the HHS (http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/11poverty.shtml), under $23K and change for a family of four, I'm mystified. I look back on my experience slinging booze and running burgers, ****ty jobs that had little to no qualificiations, but I was able to earn about twice the figure for a four person home and 10 times the figure for a single person home in the post 9/11 economy.

What I did wasn't extraordinary. I don't understand why anyone who can fog a mirror couldn't do the exact same thing, barring physical/mental disability. What am I missing?

[sooner_born_1960]

Not a thing.

[badger]

The growing rate of obesity might have something to do with it. I mean, how many people can stay on their feet for even a few hours at an OU game before they start grumbling for all the youngins in front of them to sit down? If you add a few more hours to make a full time shift and add in hauling food, ice, garbage and drunkies to toss out to the curb, it can take quite a toll on people's already shaky health.

I think we've all heard people tut-tutting at how poor people shouldn't be able to afford to be fat people, but I think we've all seen first-hand that this just isn't the case. Fatty food is cheap food now. Staying in shape is something a lot of people just don't have the time or energy to do, poor or not.

In any event, vBookie event ends in less than an hour. Go bet on MLB games so you can join the SF.com poor house. :D

[Barry's_Scowl]

Your jobs, however ****ty you deem them, were located in middle class Dallas suburbs. For people who grow up in poverty and live in impoverished neighborhoods, those "****ty" jobs may not even be available, no matter how much an individual is willing to work. You might say, "What about getting a job in a nicer area and commuting?" Commutes cost money and time - time that may require paying for a babysitter.

I realize that mine is not a full answer and is largely anecdotal. This is a good paper on the subject: http://www.jed.or.kr/full-text/28-2/Park.PDF. It does bring up the issue of race, however, which you didn't ask about.

There isn't a simple answer, though. There are impoverished folks who were born with disadvantages that are nearly impossible to overcome, and there are poor people who remain poor through laziness, bad decision making, or addiction.

[sooner_born_1960]

Let's not forget that veritas is a handsome young man. Those jobs wouldn't have been available to the ugly members of our society.

[badger]

Veritas probably failed to mention that he worked at "Nebraska Fans Only Here at this Awesome Cornhusker Bar In Dallas" and went to his job interview wearing a foam corn hat on top of a foam "N" cowboy hat, along with a vintage Eric Crouch jersey and pants he stole from Dr. Ozzy. ;)

[tommieharris91]

Veritas probably failed to mention that he worked at "Nebraska Fans Only Here at this Awesome Cornhusker Bar In Dallas" and went to his job interview wearing a foam corn hat on top of a foam "N" cowboy hat, along with a vintage Eric Crouch jersey and pants he stole from Dr. Ozzy. ;)

But was he wearing crocs?

[Veritas]

This is a good paper on the subject: http://www.jed.or.kr/full-text/28-2/Park.PDF. It does bring up the issue of race, however, which you didn't ask about.
Interesting paper for sure. It makes me wonder what the demographic breakdown is of those beneath the HHR poverty line. And it makes me wonder what the percentage of those below the HHR poverty line are in a situation like that posed in the paper: a black inner-city enclave with a low level of amenities and a high wage premium.

[Scott D]

Always seemed to me that the highest concentrations tended to be in poorer parts of a city where jobs may or may not be at a premium, and in well out of the way rural areas where there just aren't many options in the local area since the Walmart is 30 miles away and for a family with no car it may as well be 300 miles away.

[TUSooner]

Certainly, a great many people have no excuse, but the causes of poverty are not always so simple. Sometimes its age, health, or lack of native intelligence. Sometimes it's past mistakes that are not easy to overcome.
Still, I tend to agree with you and think everyone can do better. I would accept no excuses from myself or my kids. It's always the right thing just to get off yerass and work at something, anything !!

[XingTheRubicon]

I used to have to work out for 2 hours to burn off cheese fries from Snuffers back in the 90's.

[XingTheRubicon]

What I did wasn't extraordinary. I don't understand why anyone who can fog a mirror couldn't do the exact same thing, barring physical/mental disability. What am I missing?

The reason the middle class is shrinking (esp. upper middle) is not because of the evil rich, it's because in 1980, 1 in 5 young men had your mindset. Now, 1 in a 1000 do. There's always exceptions...that's why I said 1 in a 1000. In 1930, it was 4.5 out of 5...hunger is an interesting motivator.

[pphilfran]

The reason the middle class is shrinking (esp. upper middle) is not because of the evil rich, it's because in 1980, 1 in 5 young men had your mindset. Now, 1 in a 1000 do. There's always exceptions...that's why I said 1 in a 1000. In 1930, it was 4.5 out of 5...hunger is an interesting motivator.

The middle class is not really shrinking...

The poor have gotten poorer....and the rich have gotten richer...the middle class has grown significantly in size...

Between 1993 and 2007 the US generated 28.3 million more returns...

The group earning between 50k and 200k grew by 25 million returns...

The following is what I posted on another thread....

Let's take a look at actual data...from IRS....AGI...1993-2007 (largest range of dates they offer)


The folks reporting 20k a year or less got screwed...there are 6.4 million less in this group then in 93, a 12% reduction...total compensation for the group dropped 23% so as a group they got paid less....and then inflation kills them...

The people reporting 20-50k a year also did poorly, though not as bad as the lowest group...this group grew by 6.1 million, a 16% increase...total compensation for the group was us 18%...inflation did take away some of their buying power...

Now, this is where it gets interesting...

The 50-200k group grew by 128%...more than doubled in size....this pay scale is the range most would consider middle class...so it damn sure ain't dead...total compensation grew by 165% so they about matched inflation...

200k to a million...to me, these are not obscene compensation rates...we need a bunch of these...and I should be happy since this group grew by 347%...compensation up by 349%....

The rich, over a million a year in AGI grew by 490% (an additional 325k returns)...compensation grew a staggering 721%...those 325 thousand returns generated as much AGI income as the entire 20k to 50k group...a group of 44.9 million returns...

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/agichange.jpg

[tcrb]

What am I missing?

Apparently you're missing the lazy m'fer gene.

[delhalew]

I worked two jobs in Atlanta,(bartender and cook) at various places because I was sometimes to ****ed up to make it to work, which would result in having to find another job the same day I got fired. I was usaully drunk and high. It was not difficult.

A percentage of my tip money was unreported. I made around 50k one year. That's a lot of money for a single guy with no bills, and it was over ten years ago.

In other words, I agree with Veritas. Altough, I too am a handsome white boy, so...