By Gawd Its stilll Bush's fault.

[olevetonahill]

:rolleyes:
Come on talk straight to the people not a bunch of Blame the other dude carp.


http://news.yahoo.com/obama-says-inherited-economic-problems-001543865.html

[sappstuf]

http://republicanredefined.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Obama-2012-Bumper-Sticker-3.jpg

[OklahomaTuba]

http://pl-mgroup-akamai.powerlineblog.com/admin/ed-assets/2011/08/ODowngradev2b.jpg

[olevetonahill]

I aint trying to Bash Obama. Id just like to see and hear some straight talk out of ANY of these dayumed politicians.:mad:

[sappstuf]

I aint trying to Bash Obama. Id just like to see and hear some straight talk out of ANY of these dayumed politicians.:mad:

And that should start from the top... But it won't.

[OklahomaTuba]

Good luck with that...

[NormanPride]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_aCRBiOhWuQw/SeLlt5G3y8I/AAAAAAAAAnw/UUy3UQ7eHn0/s400/jr.jpg

BAH GAWD!

[StoopTroup]

Tea anyone?

http://www.graphics.iparenting.com/clipart/food/12084.JPG

[Position Limit]

preferably decaf for tuba. she's been taking her stupid pills and needs all of the help she can get.

[olevetonahill]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_aCRBiOhWuQw/SeLlt5G3y8I/AAAAAAAAAnw/UUy3UQ7eHn0/s400/jr.jpg

BAH GAWD!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[OklahomaTuba]

Watch it ST, you might give Downgrade a new idea to use as an excuse for this failure.

Oh, wait...

[olevetonahill]

preferably decaf for tuba. she's been taking her stupid pills and needs all of the help she can get.

So what do we serve you? Colored water?
You are just as bad in the other direction.:rolleyes:

[TUSooner]

Blame is not helpful. But this mess did not just happen overnight or since the latest inauguration. That said, blame is not helpful.

[Position Limit]

Blame is not helpful. But this mess did not just happen overnight or since the latest inauguration. That said, blame is not helpful.

shhhhhhh. dont let the jonestown crowd hear that. it might get them off talking points.

[StoopTroup]

Blame is not helpful. But this mess did not just happen overnight or since the latest inauguration. That said, blame is not helpful.

You damn Straight. This started the moment they created the first deficit and did nothing to pay it off.

[OklahomaTuba]

Blame is not helpful. But this mess did not just happen overnight or since the latest inauguration. That said, blame is not helpful.Well, actually yes, it did start about the time the dims got total control of the government.

http://www.onlineinvestingai.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/obama-budget-deficit.jpg

Before Downgrade we counted our debt in the Billions, not the Trillions.

And of course, Downgrade blames the Tea Party, a Tsunami, some riots in the middle east, etc.

Not his failed stimuius, obamacare, record expansion of the fed government, record expansion of the welfare state, destruction of the private economy, etc.

All of which I am sure you believe to be the cause.

[sappstuf]

Blame is not helpful. But this mess did not just happen overnight or since the latest inauguration. That said, blame is not helpful.

Spending.. We are not talking about revenue.. Just spending has went up a trillion dollars in 4 years. Dems hid the FY2009 budget from Bush until Obama was sworn in so they could spend what they wanted.

A trillion dollars. Dems in control of the House, Senate, and Presidency.. $1 trillion dollars...

Trillion dollars. Dems controlled everything. All deficit spending

Trillion.

[OhU1]

America deserves the rotten situation we find ourselves in. We vote these people in. We listen to the hollow demagoguery and waste time debating sides like there is any difference in the result. We want services, benefits, wars, ect. but want someone else to pay for them. We want student loans and home mortgages but want to bail out when our plans don't work out. IOU nation.

[OklahomaTuba]

A trillion dollars. Dems in control of the House, Senate, and Presidency.. $1 trillion dollars...

Trillion dollars. Dems controlled everything. All deficit spending

Trillion.

You're wasting your time trying to explain this to the idiotic liberals here. They don't understand that going from half a billion in debt to nearly 2 trillion in debt every year might cause some problems, like bankrupting the country. it's like all icky math and numbers and stuff.

It's just easier to blame the evil scary raaacist tea baggers and their snake flags than take any responsibility for anything.

[Position Limit]

Well, actually yes, it did start about the time the dims got total control of the government.

http://www.onlineinvestingai.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/obama-budget-deficit.jpg

Before Downgrade we counted our debt in the Billions, not the Trillions.

And of course, Downgrade blames the Tea Party, a Tsunami, some riots in the middle east, etc.

Not his failed stimuius, obamacare, record expansion of the fed government, record expansion of the welfare state, destruction of the private economy, etc.

All of which I am sure you believe to be the cause.

listen clownboy, do you know the reason for the downgrade? i mean the real reason. not the fox news reason. in another thead you were celebrating the fact that french bonds had a higher rating than treasury bonds. if you had any money and half a brain, which would you put your money in? please dont let this run you off. you are proving to be entertaining on a slow morn. not go hit up fox news and get me an unoriginal talking point.

[OklahomaTuba]

listen clownboy, do you know the reason for the downgrade? i mean the real reason. not the fox news reason. in another thead you were celebrating the fact that french bonds had a higher rating than treasury bonds. if you had any money and half a brain, which would you put your money in? please dont let this run you off. you are proving to be entertaining on a slow morn. not go hit up fox news and get me an unoriginal talking point.That chart's from the Washington Post, clowngirl.

And not celebrating the fact President Downgrade & the dims have made us more of a credit risk than France, its just a fact now. Like the fact that Mexico has a lower unemployment rate.

It's just the truth bubba.

[pphilfran]

listen clownboy, do you know the reason for the downgrade? i mean the real reason. not the fox news reason. in another thead you were celebrating the fact that french bonds had a higher rating than treasury bonds. if you had any money and half a brain, which would you put your money in? please dont let this run you off. you are proving to be entertaining on a slow morn. not go hit up fox news and get me an unoriginal talking point.

:D

[StoopTroup]

Wouldn't it be cool if we could see who is getting our tax money? I mean like print it in the paper, post it on the Internet, sell the list to a book Publisher and I bet folks would even pay to see the lists. I'd pay $9.99 fir a soft back copy I could look through that had all of these transactions the actress's and email contacts for everyone of these folks then the rest of us could do some real investigative journalism on how they are using it to make America Beautiful.

I swear if folks knew how many are misusing the funds they have been given I'd bet the folks that hand their hand in the cookie jar wouldn't be so quick to take the money that goes out to them.

The truth will set us free and I think it might take some time but as story after story is done to either substantiate the good ones and really expose the schiesters in 4-5 years I think we'd see a change in DC.

[pphilfran]

That chart's from the Washington Post, clowngirl.

You would really hate me..I would be tossing in another half trillion of infrastructure improvements...

The S&P is smart...they realize that if the economy doesn't get moving then there is nothing that will save our azz....

They didn't complain about short term spending...they were concerned about lack of entitlement cuts, mid and long term debt reduction, and the divide in Congress that caused a stalemate and a last minute agreement...

[Position Limit]

That chart's from the Washington Post, clowngirl.

And not celebrating the fact President Downgrade & the dims have made us more of a credit risk than France, its just a fact now. Like the fact that Mexico has a lower unemployment rate.

It's just the truth bubba.

ANSWER THE FU**ING QUESTION YOU DUNCE!! and please, no talking points. everybody has some modicum of originality.

[NormanPride]

You mean they're concerned that we didn't actually fix anything? Well, color me impressed.

[pphilfran]

You mean they're concerned that we didn't actually fix anything? Well, color me impressed.

They were concerned that we ignored their statement that they wanted 4 trillion in cuts over 10 years and Congress, after much gnashing of teeth, presented a 2 trillion package...

[BermudaSooner]

Well, actually yes, it did start about the time the dims got total control of the government.

http://www.onlineinvestingai.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/obama-budget-deficit.jpg

Before Downgrade we counted our debt in the Billions, not the Trillions.

And of course, Downgrade blames the Tea Party, a Tsunami, some riots in the middle east, etc.

Not his failed stimuius, obamacare, record expansion of the fed government, record expansion of the welfare state, destruction of the private economy, etc.

All of which I am sure you believe to be the cause.

great graphic, Tuba. As Rahm Emmanuel says, always take advantage of a good crisis to further your ideological philosophy.

[NormanPride]

They were concerned that we ignored their statement that they wanted 4 trillion in cuts over 10 years and Congress, after much gnashing of teeth, presented a 2 trillion package...
Well what can we expect from a bunch of public officials?

[StoopTroup]

You're wasting your time trying to explain this to the idiotic liberals here. They don't understand that going from half a billion in debt to nearly 2 trillion in debt every year might cause some problems, like bankrupting the country. it's like all icky math and numbers and stuff.

It's just easier to blame the evil scary raaacist tea baggers and their snake flags than take any responsibility for anything.

Well my friend the damnedest thing is they all settled on legislation that they could have passed 60 days ago and avoided the downgrade and still, the **** they agreed to doesn't fix anything.

I really do understand that Washington doesn't deserve us agreeing to raising taxes or revenues to help pay down the debt if they continue to run an open checkbook. I think most of America agrees with the concept.

What they don't agree to is.....if some people who can pay don't pay, then why should any of us have to pay?

It goes right back to dear old jolly England when the rich, powerful or entitled all lived very differently from the loyal servants that love their Country and would spill blood to make it a great place to live. Eventually blood was spilt but some folks had the choice back then to leave for a new World where they could fight for a Country that gave them representation for the taxation they would agree to pay into.

Things are pretty backwards these days. Spending is out of control, limits on spending aren't in place, we don't save for rainy days and some folks absolutely don't pay into the system they draw from.

[StoopTroup]

This reminds me of nearly every thread on the oval these days that involve current events.

82j163In9wk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[pphilfran]

Who is that asking about the birth certificate? Trump?

[StoopTroup]

Lol

[NormanPride]

No, it's Big Bird. Duh. What are you, a moran?

[EnragedOUfan]

Technically speaking, it is Bush's fault........

He Presided over this country for 8 years. Obama for about 2 years, 8 months, and 9 days........

While its easy to blast it because much hasn't changed, the Stimulus Bill was designed to help people. In the long run, it didn't help that much other than allow some towns to build brand new stop lights (Nicoma Park, OK for example), but I have no problem with it because of its intentions.

Same thing with the healthcare act. It may cost a lot, but it needs to be done. I got out of the military and I've seen first hand the ridiculous health quotes for a family from the beloved private insurance companies. With some of these quotes, I really don't understand how in the heck people making 8-12 bucks an hour with families could afford them. The American health care industry in general is all about the dollar in my opinion. While there are flaws, one of the key things the Affordable Care Act offers is the whole "preexisting conditions" thing. I'm Christian and I'm all for people being able to get medical help, especially when they're having tough times and low on cash. No one, especially someone with brain cancer, should be denied that right. I feel that people who are against this, especially the Evangelical right, needs to question themselves on whether they truly are with God, because I can tell you Jesus was all about taking from the rich and giving to the poor.....

My only fault with Obama is his lack of leadership. I cannot and do not blame Obama for the credit downgrade. How can we blame the President when all laws and bills are created in the House? Once it passes the House, it goes to the Senate, and from there to the Oval office. There's not much President Obama can do if bills don't even make it to his desk......

One country I would proudly support for us to invade and kill the enemy is Somalia. Pull out of Afghanistan, and deploy to Somalia. Send in the Air Force to destroy Al Shabab strongholds. Then send in the Army and Marines to finish it off. What's taking place in Somalia is just sad......

[pphilfran]

No, it's Big Bird. Duh. What are you, a moran?

The similar hair is what confused me...

[StoopTroup]

So who is Big Bird and what State is he from ?

[pphilfran]

So who is Big Bird and what State is he from ?

Poultry Party...Arkansas..."No chicken in every pot!"

[sappstuf]

Well my friend the damnedest thing is they all settled on legislation that they could have passed 60 days ago and avoided the downgrade and still, the **** they agreed to doesn't fix anything.

I really do understand that Washington doesn't deserve us agreeing to raising taxes or revenues to help pay down the debt if they continue to run an open checkbook. I think most of America agrees with the concept.

What they don't agree to is.....if some people who can pay don't pay, then why should any of us have to pay?

It goes right back to dear old jolly England when the rich, powerful or entitled all lived very differently from the loyal servants that love their Country and would spill blood to make it a great place to live. Eventually blood was spilt but some folks had the choice back then to leave for a new World where they could fight for a Country that gave them representation for the taxation they would agree to pay into.

Things are pretty backwards these days. Spending is out of control, limits on spending aren't in place, we don't save for rainy days and some folks absolutely don't pay into the system they draw from.

And yet Obama pushed for a clean debt ceiling hike at first.... By my estimation that comes just about $4 trillion short of the $4 trillion in cuts that the S&P wanted.

[sappstuf]

Well, actually yes, it did start about the time the dims got total control of the government.

http://www.onlineinvestingai.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/obama-budget-deficit.jpg

Before Downgrade we counted our debt in the Billions, not the Trillions.

And of course, Downgrade blames the Tea Party, a Tsunami, some riots in the middle east, etc.

Not his failed stimuius, obamacare, record expansion of the fed government, record expansion of the welfare state, destruction of the private economy, etc.

All of which I am sure you believe to be the cause.


That chart is old and unfortunately the reality looks even worse. I think the projected deficit in 2011 is now $1.65 trillion. What is $600 billion between friends?

[sappstuf]

They were concerned that we ignored their statement that they wanted 4 trillion in cuts over 10 years and Congress, after much gnashing of teeth, presented a 2 trillion package...

Phil,

that isn't exactly correct. The House passed Cut, Cap and Balance that would have cut $3.7 trillion over 10 years and then Harry tabled it and wouldn't let it go up for a floor vote. I'm guessing that would have been close enough for S&P.

[tommieharris91]

listen clownboy, do you know the reason for the downgrade? i mean the real reason. not the fox news reason. in another thead you were celebrating the fact that french bonds had a higher rating than treasury bonds. if you had any money and half a brain, which would you put your money in? please dont let this run you off. you are proving to be entertaining on a slow morn. not go hit up fox news and get me an unoriginal talking point.

You're new here. He gets lumped in with RLIMC.

[Position Limit]

You're new here. He gets lumped in with RLIMC.

i get it. like a bad clone prone to malfunction. explains alot. thanks.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Does anyone remember the good old days when Bush couldn't be blamed for the bad economy because it takes 3 or 4 years for a President agenda to take effect? So Clinton was all Bush Part 1's fault. Then Clinton's bad policy caused Bush 2's Problem.

[The Profit]

Phil,

that isn't exactly correct. The House passed Cut, Cap and Balance that would have cut $3.7 trillion over 10 years and then Harry tabled it and wouldn't let it go up for a floor vote. I'm guessing that would have been close enough for S&P.




Sapp, "cut, cap and balance" included zero dollars in increased revenue. That's right; it did nothing to eliminate loopholes that allow hedge fund managers to pay no taxes. It did nothing to increase taxes on luxury items, such as corporate jets. It left the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest of Americans in place.

Obama called for a $4.2 trillion 10 year reduction in the national debt that was fair. For every dollar that his plan cut from medicare and medicaid, an additional dollar was raised through revenue increases. There was nothing wrong with that. It was compromise at its finest, but the "teabagged" would have none of it.

The "teabagged" claimed (in front of every news camera it could find) that its 6-month long kidnapping of the debt ceiling situation, would have no adverse affect on our country. They were either lying, or they were just plain stupid.

[jkjsooner]

Does anyone remember the good old days when Bush couldn't be blamed for the bad economy because it takes 3 or 4 years for a President agenda to take effect? So Clinton was all Bush Part 1's fault. Then Clinton's bad policy caused Bush 2's Problem.

I've been pointing that out for months. Back in '01 I was Bush's biggest supporter when idiots talked about how he ruined the economy. Same here with Obama.

I can't stand hypocrites and there are a lot of them here.

[sappstuf]

Sapp, "cut, cap and balance" included zero dollars in increased revenue. That's right; it did nothing to eliminate loopholes that allow hedge fund managers to pay no taxes. It did nothing to increase taxes on luxury items, such as corporate jets. It left the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest of Americans in place.

Obama called for a $4.2 trillion 10 year reduction in the national debt that was fair. For every dollar that his plan cut from medicare and medicaid, an additional dollar was raised through revenue increases. There was nothing wrong with that. It was compromise at its finest, but the "teabagged" would have none of it.

The "teabagged" claimed (in front of every news camera it could find) that its 6-month long kidnapping of the debt ceiling situation, would have no adverse affect on our country. They were either lying, or they were just plain stupid.

Where is this plan? I can look up CCB, I can look up Boehner's plan, I can look up Paul Ryan's plan... Reid's plan... Well.. Reid himself voted against his own plan, but I can find it.

I haven't been able to find this super secret Obama plan.. Maybe this guy knows..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/DonAdams.jpg

If you find it, I will be happy to read it, but I don't think you will have much success.

It is the same thing that happened after the Senate voted down Obama's budget 97-0. He gave this nice speech about cutting spending, in response to the scored Ryan plan. Where is that plan? Repubs asked the CBO director if he had taken action on the Obama plan.. His response?


We don't estimate speeches, we need much more specificity than was provided in that speech for us to do our analysis.

Sounds like somebody is voting "present" again....

I wish Obama was an AA+ president because this is as far as we would fall.. He isn't.

[soonercruiser]

Blame is not helpful. But this mess did not just happen overnight or since the latest inauguration. That said, blame is not helpful.

Yes, agree! No use going back to blame Clinton.
:rolleyes:

[diverdog]

Well, actually yes, it did start about the time the dims got total control of the government.

http://www.onlineinvestingai.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/obama-budget-deficit.jpg

Before Downgrade we counted our debt in the Billions, not the Trillions.

And of course, Downgrade blames the Tea Party, a Tsunami, some riots in the middle east, etc.

Not his failed stimuius, obamacare, record expansion of the fed government, record expansion of the welfare state, destruction of the private economy, etc.

All of which I am sure you believe to be the cause.

You guys fricken kill me. You will argue forever saying Clinton did not leave office with a surplus. But yet you use a chart to beat up on Obama that shows Clinton had a surplus. So using your chart Bush took a $236 billion dollar surplus and turned it into a $444 billion dollar deficit. On top of all that the actual federal debt went up over a trillion dollars in 2008. So in effect Bush took a surplus and turned it into huge deficits......based on your chart.

Thanks for making that point tuba,

[hawaii 5-0]

I blame Bush for starting this long skid we're in. 2 wars without the funding just for starters.

I blame Obama for continuing the skid and not getting us out of Iraq now. Now that we've killed Oksanna we shoulda said vaya con dios to the Afghanis. We're just wasting American lives and billions over a people that doesn't want our help.

I also blame Obama for his lack of leadership in dealing with the pissant Teabaggers, letting them hold the US economy hostage. He needs to get tough with them.


5-0


Trump/ Pitbull 2012

[bigfatjerk]

Obama held everything hostage just as much as the tea party. He said that he wouldn't pass any bill that didn't got through the end of 2012. That's not holding things hostage?

[soonerhubs]

Cliff notes version of this thread and so many others on this forum: ZomgTeabaggerssquandererandchiefhannitysucksolberm ansadooshpolitifit!!!



:D

[Veritas]

It's not any President's fault. Sheesh. It's the ****ing House and the Senate.

[soonerhubs]

It's not any President's fault. Sheesh. It's the ****ing House and the Senate.

I blame this entitled lazy *** generation of citizens.

[Sooner_Tuf]

You can tap dance all you want around it but Obama is sinking this ship on his watch. I don't think you can convince even yourselves that he is not responsible but you will never convince anyone else. We know. Obama is without a doubt the worst President to date and he hasn't even served a full term yet. The guy is just super bad.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Obama called for a $4.2 trillion 10 year reduction in the national debt that was fair. For every dollar that his plan cut from medicare and medicaid, an additional dollar was raised through revenue increases. There was nothing wrong with that. It was compromise at its finest, but the "teabagged" would have none of it.

:confused: Really? :confused: Hmmm...would you be able to back up this claim? Or did is just come from Barry's teleprompter? An urban legend? A myth?

Do tell

[StoopTroup]

You guys fricken kill me. You will argue forever saying Clinton did not leave office with a surplus. But yet you use a chart to beat up on Obama that shows Clinton had a surplus. So using your chart Bush took a $236 billion dollar surplus and turned it into a $444 billion dollar deficit. On top of all that the actual federal debt went up over a trillion dollars in 2008. So in effect Bush took a surplus and turned it into huge deficits......based on your chart.

Thanks for making that point tuba,

It's all in the spin and I think what position the moon and the tides are in.

[diverdog]

It's all in the spin and I think what position the moon and the tides are in.

I just get sick and tired of how the hard right blames everything on the Democrats no matter what happened. They will say they are responsible for all the problems under the Bush administration forgetting the fact that Bush had veto power and a veto proof legislature and rarely used the veto. Nor do they mention the fact that congress has gotten more conservative since Reagan was in office and not less conservative.

Finally none of the mention the fact that the Bush administration put the fear of god in Federal regulators. I had friends at the EPA that told me if they tried to enforce clean waater laws on industrial run off they would get canned. I have no doubt the SEC faced the same threats and that is why Wall Street ran amuck.

[diverdog]

Phil,

that isn't exactly correct. The House passed Cut, Cap and Balance that would have cut $3.7 trillion over 10 years and then Harry tabled it and wouldn't let it go up for a floor vote. I'm guessing that would have been close enough for S&P.

I love how you are so willing to except the tea party figures. The bottom line is CCB was an idealogical hatchet job that would have hurt the US economy for decades.

[Caboose]

I just get sick and tired of how the hard right blames everything on the Democrats no matter what happened. They will say they are responsible for all the problems under the Bush administration forgetting the fact that Bush had veto power and a veto proof legislature and rarely used the veto. Nor do they mention the fact that congress has gotten more conservative since Reagan was in office and not less conservative.

Finally none of the mention the fact that the Bush administration put the fear of god in Federal regulators. I had friends at the EPA that told me if they tried to enforce clean waater laws on industrial run off they would get canned. I have no doubt the SEC faced the same threats and that is why Wall Street ran amuck.

Now rant about how you are equally sick and tired of the Left blaming the Republicans for everything... ready, GO!

[Sooner in Tampa]

Now rant about how you are equally sick and tired of the Left blaming the Republicans for everything... ready, GO!
+1

[sappstuf]

I love how you are so willing to except the tea party figures. The bottom line is CCB was an idealogical hatchet job that would have hurt the US economy for decades.

Show me Obama's plan. Just show it to me. Send me the link. CCB at least was brought up for a vote and passed the House. It was real and existed.

Show me Obama's plan.

The plan.. Obama.

Show.

[bigfatjerk]

Show me Obama's plan. Just show it to me. Send me the link. CCB at least was brought up for a vote and passed the House. It was real and existed.

Show me Obama's plan.

The plan.. Obama.

Show.

Obama's budget got killed 0-97 in the Senate.

[sappstuf]

Obama's budget got killed 0-97 in the Senate.

Clearly the Tea Party's fault....

[olevetonahill]

Blame is not helpful. But this mess did not just happen overnight or since the latest inauguration. That said, blame is not helpful.

I aint rereading this thread, But I do think you are the only who got my point.

[bigfatjerk]

I don't care for the blame game, it's really all both sides play. But nobody wants to really do what needs to be done to fix things. Cut entitlements, cut military spending, and reform the tax system to where everyone pays taxes and there are no loopholes/subsides.

[TitoMorelli]

I just want to know exactly who to blame for all these "down for maintenance" timeouts we've been getting lately - Boosh, Ohbummer, the libtards or the 'baggers?

[OutlandTrophy]

listen clownboy, do you know the reason for the downgrade? i mean the real reason. not the fox news reason. in another thead you were celebrating the fact that french bonds had a higher rating than treasury bonds. if you had any money and half a brain, which would you put your money in? please dont let this run you off. you are proving to be entertaining on a slow morn. not go hit up fox news and get me an unoriginal talking point.

Team Obama and John Kerry say the reason is the Tea Party.

was this the answer you were looking for? I got it from CBS and the thehill.com, not Fox News.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/07/ftn/main20089207.shtml

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/175801-kerry-blames-tea-party-for-downgrade-says-senate-gop-willing-to-raise-taxes

[tommieharris91]

Team Obama and John Kerry say the reason is the Tea Party.

was this the answer you were looking for? I got it from CBS and the thehill.com, not Fox News.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/07/ftn/main20089207.shtml

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/175801-kerry-blames-tea-party-for-downgrade-says-senate-gop-willing-to-raise-taxes

I got that conclusion from Standard & Poor's.

We're paying a risk discount for our debt now though. If that's what happens, bring on another bedowngrade.

[okie52]

I just want to know exactly who to blame for all these "down for maintenance" timeouts we've been getting lately - Boosh, Ohbummer, the libtards or the 'baggers?

:D

It's the union's fault...quality control issues.

[diverdog]

Show me Obama's plan. Just show it to me. Send me the link. CCB at least was brought up for a vote and passed the House. It was real and existed.

Show me Obama's plan.

The plan.. Obama.

Show.

He supported the Gang of Six plan. Just google it.

[diverdog]

Now rant about how you are equally sick and tired of the Left blaming the Republicans for everything... ready, GO!

No I will leave that up to you guys on the far right.

[soonercruiser]

He supported the Gang of Six plan. Just google it.

Yah! I heard him constantly on the TV talking about it!
Lem me se.........ahhhhhhh.....
No - that was the skimulus plan.

[soonercruiser]

Yah! I heard him constantly on the TV talking about it!
Lem me se.........ahhhhhhh.....
No - that was the skimulus plan.

BTW - you'd have to Google it off a LW web site; 'cause it ain't on video.

[sappstuf]

He supported the Gang of Six plan. Just google it.

Right.. What was the Gang of Six plan based on? Here is a big clue:


The proposal by the bipartisan senators in the Gang of Six, by contrast, tries to strike a middle ground between spending cuts and revenue increases and is based on the recommendations of the president's deficit commission.

He said he supported his own debt commission's findings as well when it came out. Guess how much of that plan made it into his budget? 0. As in 97-0. Now we know what Obama's support is worth..

DD, you are a smart guy. Surely in the banking industry you know an empty suit when you see one.. Obama is a double A pitcher with a decent fastball that gets called up to the bigs, promptly has his best pitch knocked 500 feet.. He doesn't know what to do.

Hillary tried to warn us. He wasn't ready. She was right.

[XingTheRubicon]

Right.. What was the Gang of Six plan based on? Here is a big clue:



He said he supported his own debt commission's findings as well when it came out. Guess how much of that plan made it into his budget? 0. As in 97-0. Now we know what Obama's support is worth..

DD, you are a smart guy. Surely in the banking industry you know an empty suit when you see one.. Obama is a double A+ pitcher with a decent fastball that gets called up to the bigs, promptly has his best pitch knocked 500 feet.. He doesn't know what to do.

Hillary tried to warn us. He wasn't ready. She was right.

f

[BermudaSooner]

the Stimulus Bill was designed to help people. In the long run, it didn't help that much other than allow some towns to build brand new stop lights (Nicoma Park, OK for example), but I have no problem with it because of its intentions.


Things are not always as they appear. I grant you that Mr. Hope and Change sold many on the stimulus bill saying the intention was to get people work, but that isn't what happened. In fact, most of the money wasn't spent on anything that creates jobs--it was new entitlement money. And once someone is given an entitlement, it is hard to take it back.

The Stimulus bill was nothing more than an opportunity jumped on by the liberals to institute entitlement programs in the name of stimulus---nothing more. And now it has cost us our debt rating.

[Caboose]

No I will leave that up to you guys on the far right.

Translation: Its OK when when WE do it!

You are part of the problem. Not the solution.

PS. I am not remotely close to the "far right". Im not a Conservative, or even a Republican.

[pphilfran]

Speaking of Bush's fault...

I have some updated GDP numbers...I went back and found the initial GDP projections and added it to the chart...look how close they have been....lol...

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/iindelecproduction-1.jpg

[sappstuf]

Hey Phil,

recognize my avatar?

[diverdog]

BTW - you'd have to Google it off a LW web site; 'cause it ain't on video.

Seeing how they aren't too bright in WV I will help you out ole toothless one:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/1065830171001/obama-throws-support-behind-gang-of-6-debt-reduction-plan/

[diverdog]

Right.. What was the Gang of Six plan based on? Here is a big clue:



He said he supported his own debt commission's findings as well when it came out. Guess how much of that plan made it into his budget? 0. As in 97-0. Now we know what Obama's support is worth..

DD, you are a smart guy. Surely in the banking industry you know an empty suit when you see one.. Obama is a double A pitcher with a decent fastball that gets called up to the bigs, promptly has his best pitch knocked 500 feet.. He doesn't know what to do.

Hillary tried to warn us. He wasn't ready. She was right.

First lets address the 97-0 budget vote that you so often throw out on the floor to denounce Obama. The plan was very similar to the gang of six plan. Mitch McConnell forced the vote as a political move to corner the Democrats saying they did not support as deep of cuts. He was right. The Republicans did not vote for it because it contained tax increases on the wealthy . So it seems to me the only grown up in the room was Obama who supported both budget cuts and tax increases as a way to balance the budget. He compromised and both parties said there were good things in his bill. The vote was purely political gamemanship. Sapp, I do not think you can argue that his plan which was shot down was not a lot better than the plan we eventually got. Had it passed I doubt we would be going through all the swings in the market.

Secondly I agree with you on Obama's leadership. He has not done a good job leading on the economy. On the other hand I think he has been a far better war time President than I imagined. My preference would have been Hillary. The sad news is that I do not see any better leaders on the horizon.

PS: Baseball analogies are completely lost on me. I cannot stand the sport.

[pphilfran]

Hey Phil,

recognize my avatar?

No, special...other than a kick in the nutz.....

[sappstuf]

No, special...other than a kick in the nutz.....

It is Gaffer's old avatar! I thought it might scare the bejesus out of some people..

[Sooner Eclipse]

I also blame Obama for his lack of leadership in dealing with the pissant Teabaggers, letting them hold the US economy hostage.

**** you commie - the nothing is being held hostage execpt this country and its being held by big spending socialists (dems and pubs) that wont quit spending. If it means offing a few of the big spenders in power and those that support them then so be it. Economic slavery is the result otherwise.

[sappstuf]

First lets address the 97-0 budget vote that you so often throw out on the floor to denounce Obama. The plan was very similar to the gang of six plan. Mitch McConnell forced the vote as a political move to corner the Democrats saying they did not support as deep of cuts. He was right. The Republicans did not vote for it because it contained tax increases on the wealthy . So it seems to me the only grown up in the room was Obama who supported both budget cuts and tax increases as a way to balance the budget. He compromised and both parties said there were good things in his bill. The vote was purely political gamemanship. Sapp, I do not think you can argue that his plan which was shot down was not a lot better than the plan we eventually got. Had it passed I doubt we would be going through all the swings in the market.

Secondly I agree with you on Obama's leadership. He has not done a good job leading on the economy. On the other hand I think he has been a far better war time President than I imagined. My preference would have been Hillary. The sad news is that I do not see any better leaders on the horizon.

PS: Baseball analogies are completely lost on me. I cannot stand the sport.

DD,

Obama's budget never came close to balancing the budget.


CBO estimates Obama's plan would produce 10 years of deficits totaling $9.5 trillion. By 2021, it would increase the debt held by the public to 87 percent of gross domestic product.

Lets see... 10 years, 10 trillion.. Sounds like averaging $1 trillion in deficits annually forever. How do you think S&P would have rated that?

Now this is factual on what happened, but I will also have my opinion. You can look any of it up.

Obama submitted his disastrous budget. It was roundly criticized for ignoring his own debt commission recommendations. Dem support was lukewarm, at best.

Paul Ryan introduces his plan and it is scored saving trillions over Obama's plan. With the Tea Party leading the way national sentiment on federal spending starts to shift towards the Repubs. Obama senses this shift and makes a prime time speech laying out his "plan" for cutting spending and that more details will be forth coming. The Senate Repubs want a vote and the Dems agree because they think that Obama's original budget is now void because of his new plan and it is voted down 97-0.

A week or two later Paul Ryan questions the CBO Director if he has scored Obama's "plan". The director responds, and here is his quote:


We don't estimate speeches, We need much more specificity than was provided in that speech for us to do our analysis.

To date, that plan has never been fully released or scored by the CBO.

Now we have been downgraded.. What did Obama say in his response on Monday?


I intend to present my own recommendations over the coming weeks on how we should proceed.

What the ****?

If he had a plan, why not release it immediately? Dow drops another 500 and has two of the top five drops in Dow history this week, and we need to wait several weeks... That sure seems to be working out doesn't it?

Honestly, I can understand how someone would have voted for him, but how can you defend him? He is incompetent DD.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Your last sentence about sums up how I feel about the House, Senate, and President....

[diverdog]

DD,

Obama's budget never came close to balancing the budget.



Lets see... 10 years, 10 trillion.. Sounds like averaging $1 trillion in deficits annually forever. How do you think S&P would have rated that?

Now this is factual on what happened, but I will also have my opinion. You can look any of it up.

Obama submitted his disastrous budget. It was roundly criticized for ignoring his own debt commission recommendations. Dem support was lukewarm, at best.

Paul Ryan introduces his plan and it is scored saving trillions over Obama's plan. With the Tea Party leading the way national sentiment on federal spending starts to shift towards the Repubs. Obama senses this shift and makes a prime time speech laying out his "plan" for cutting spending and that more details will be forth coming. The Senate Repubs want a vote and the Dems agree because they think that Obama's original budget is now void because of his new plan and it is voted down 97-0.

A week or two later Paul Ryan questions the CBO Director if he has scored Obama's "plan". The director responds, and here is his quote:



To date, that plan has never been fully released or scored by the CBO.

Now we have been downgraded.. What did Obama say in his response on Monday?



What the ****?

If he had a plan, why not release it immediately? Dow drops another 500 and has two of the top five drops in Dow history this week, and we need to wait several weeks... That sure seems to be working out doesn't it?

Honestly, I can understand how someone would have voted for him, but how can you defend him? He is incompetent DD.

Sapp:

No one and I mean no one has submitted a budget that will bring the deficits to zero. All of the plans leave huge deficits. The Dems do not cut enough from entitlements and the Republicans loathe spending increases.

The market is mostly reacting to the problems in Europe. The downgrade is psychological at most and the press has made things worse. There are three rating agencies and so far the other two have not downgraded us. There is not a single government on the planet that does not think we can pay our debts. The US is nowhere close to European tax rates. The short term debt issuance is still triple A under S&P.

I also find it laughable that the righties who are on here are surprised by the markets reaction. How many of you guys said not to increase the debt ceiling? Well this is what you get. Voliatility.

We will have to disagree on the version of events that happened with Obamas budget. But I can assure you your facts are not the FACTS. :)

If I haven't said this before I enjoy our debates. You seem to be very principled person with well thought out position. And unlike some of the guys on here who served in the Army you can read. I haven't figured out how to draw with crayons on the board. :P

[sappstuf]

Sapp:

No one and I mean no one has submitted a budget that will bring the deficits to zero. All of the plans leave huge deficits. The Dems do not cut enough from entitlements and the Republicans loathe spending increases.

The market is mostly reacting to the problems in Europe. The downgrade is psychological at most and the press has made things worse. There are three rating agencies and so far the other two have not downgraded us. There is not a single government on the planet that does not think we can pay our debts. The US is nowhere close to European tax rates. The short term debt issuance is still triple A under S&P.

I also find it laughable that the righties who are on here are surprised by the markets reaction. How many of you guys said not to increase the debt ceiling? Well this is what you get. Voliatility.

We will have to disagree on the version of events that happened with Obamas budget. But I can assure you your facts are not the FACTS. :)

If I haven't said this before I enjoy our debates. You seem to be very principled person with well thought out position. And unlike some of the guys on here who served in the Army you can read. I haven't figured out how to draw with crayons on the board. :P

I'm Navy.. I can read in 30 foot seas! I enjoy our debates as well.

However.. ;) I challenge you to look the history up. I will even clarify why the Dems voted against it. Which I stated above.


Democratic aides said ahead of the vote that the Democratic caucus would not support the plan because it has been supplanted by the deficit-reduction plan Obama outlined at a speech at George Washington University in April.

Do you not believe this? It isn't that hard to understand and makes sense from the Dems point of view and the Repubs point of view.

Except...

That plan doesn't exist. It still doesn't exist to this day, 4 months later. Nothing has been submitted to the House and Senate for a vote. Nothing has been submitted or scored by the CBO.

Why? Who is responsible?

[soonercruiser]

Seeing how they aren't too bright in WV I will help you out ole toothless one:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/1065830171001/obama-throws-support-behind-gang-of-6-debt-reduction-plan/

Good catch on me DD! :(
You are correct!
I apparently got lost in the difference between the "Gang of 6 Plan"....and Congress's Bipartisan Debt Reduction Commission.

Gang of 6 Plan - yes, Obama supported. But, that never became a formal bill in Congress, did it? So, no broad Congressional support!

So, he asks for, and they set up a Debt Commission; and doesn't act on their recommendations, does he? Why?

Obama has obviously been searching around for an answer that fits his ideology. It obviously wasn't the Bipartisan Debt Reduction Commission Report.
That report is what I had not seen him supportin on TV.

But, you were correct!
I was wrong.