ATF trafficking Guns, DEA trafficking Drugs

[MR2-Sooner86]

Documents: Feds allegedly allowed Sinaloa cartel to move cocaine into U.S. for information (http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_18608410?source=most_viewed)


U.S. federal agents allegedly allowed the Sinaloa drug cartel to traffic several tons of cocaine into the United States in exchange for information about rival cartels, according to court documents filed in a U.S. federal court.

The allegations are part of the defense of Vicente Zambada-Niebla, who was extradited to the United States to face drug-trafficking charges in Chicago. He is also a top lieutenant of drug kingpin Joaquin "Chapo" Guzman and the son of Ismael "Mayo" Zambada-Garcia, believed to be the brains behind the Sinaloa cartel.

The case could prove to be a bombshell on par with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives' "Operation Fast and Furious," except that instead of U.S. guns being allowed to walk across the border, the Sinaloa cartel was allowed to bring drugs into the United States. Zambada-Niebla claims he was permitted to smuggle drugs from 2004 until his arrest in 2009.

Randall Samborn, assistant U.S. attorney and spokesman for the Justice Department in Chicago, declined comment.

The court in Chicago had a status hearing on Wednesday and ordered the government to respond to allegations in Zambada-Niebla's motion by Sept. 11.

According to the court documents, Mexican lawyer Humberto Loya-Castro, another high-level Sinaloa cartel leader, had his 1995 U.S. drug-trafficking case dismissed in 2008 after serving as an informant for 10 years for the U.S. government.

Guzman and the Zambadas allegedly provided agents of the Drug Enforcement Administration, FBI and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement with information about other Mexican drug traffickers through Loya-Castro.

"Loya himself continued his drug trafficking activities with the knowledge of the United States government without being arrested or prosecuted," the court documents state.

Zambada-Niebla met voluntarily with U.S. federal agents on March 17, 2009, at the Sheraton Hotel in Mexico City, which is near the U.S. Embassy, "for the purpose of his continuing to provide information to the DEA and the U.S. government personally, rather than through Loya," court records allege.
"DEA agents (then) told Loya-Castro to tell Mr. Zambada-Niebla that they wanted to continue the same arrangements with him as they had with Mr. Loya-Castro."

Five hours after the meeting, Mexican authorities arrested Zambada-Niebla and extradited him later to the United States. His father and Guzman are fugitives.

The court documents also allege that the U.S. government is using a "divide and conquer" strategy, "using one drug organization to help against others."
Zambada-Niebla's motion seeks U.S. government records about the 2003 Juárez case involving an informant who participated in several homicides for the Carrillo-Fuentes drug cartel, while under ICE's supervision.

He also requested records about the ATF's "Operation Fast and Furious," which permitted weapons purchased illegally in the United States to be smuggled into Mexico, sometimes by paid U.S. informants and cartel leaders.

"It is estimated that approximately 3,000 people were killed in Mexico as a result of 'Operation Fast and Furious,' including law enforcement officers in the state of Sinaloa, Mexico, the headquarters of the Sinaloa cartel," the court documents allege. "The Department of Justice's leadership apparently saw this as an ingenious way of combating drug cartel activities."

Congress is wanting to make some spending cuts? I say we axe the DEA and AFT to where it's as if they never existed.

[OUHOMER]

I am sitting here shaking my head, but it really does not shock me at all.

[OutlandTrophy]

The DEA is useless and the ATF even more so.

[cccasooner2]

"Randall Samborn, assistant U.S. attorney and spokesman for the Justice Department in Chicago, declined comment." - Not surprised.

"The court in Chicago had a status hearing on Wednesday and ordered the government to respond to allegations in Zambada-Niebla's motion by Sept. 11." - What? Chicago does not observe New York hero worship day?

[TIMB0B]

Congress is wanting to make some spending cuts? I say we axe the DEA and ATF to where it's as if they never existed.

Had enough? (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=247&d=1299383152)

[soonerboomer93]

I wish I could share some of the FBI stories I've heard. They make keystone cops seem professional apparently.

[Sooner_Tuf]

The ATF should have never existed in the first place.

The DEA, however honorable the intention, has proved over a period of 30+ years that they can't get it done.

If we were to do away with both agencies what would the downside be? I can't think of anything.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

So much drug money can pay for good defense attorneys.

[SicEmBaylor]

The ATF are fascist jack booted thugs -- plain and simple. The DEA seems to be just as out of control as the ATF at this point.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

The ATF are fascist jack booted thugs -- plain and simple. The DEA seems to be just as out of control as the ATF at this point.

They tend to be of German descent, more so than Japanese descent.:)

[soonercruiser]

They tend to be of German descent, more so than Japanese descent.:)

So, more German....is that why they are criticized more?
:D

[AlbqSooner]

I wish I could share some of the FBI stories I've heard. They make keystone cops seem professional apparently.

In my 20 years experience representing those accused of criminal offenses, I heard from more than a few state or local law enforcement agents that the general consensus among law enforcement is that FBI = Fumbling Bunch of Idiots.

[OhU1]

jack booted thugs

I hear this term tossed about in right wing lingo quite a bit (which is ironic if you think about it). I don't think I've ever seen an IRS agent with "jack boots" on. Your average federal agent is highly trained and qualified and few applicants trying for these positions are selected. I doubt the prevalence of "thug" behavior (although I'm sure I will hear an anecdotal account about someone's drunken gun crazy Uncle getting beat down or capped).

I suppose if people don't like a law then sulking and name calling at those who enforce it makes them feel empowered?

[jk the sooner fan]

the DEA does a lot of good that few ever hear about

the ATF can go screw themselves....

[GDC]

Why is there an ATF when all three things they get their name from are legal?

[jk the sooner fan]

Why is there an ATF when all three things they get their name from are legal?

you forget the E = explosives

they regulate all three

air travel is legal but we still have the FAA....ya know?

[GDC]

Bush, North, Clinton and the Contras used to fly dope and money in and out of Mena, Arkansas. It says so right here:

http://www.ncoic.com/clinton.htm

[OhU1]

Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Sounds like a wild red neck party! Hey Dalton, watch this........

[TUSooner]

So now we have a bloated, aggressive, voracious, well-armed, extremely powerful, and largely unaccountable federal law enforcement apparatus that has a vested interest in perpetuating an illogical and wasteful "War on Drugs." This should not be a surprise; it was inevitable. You want to talk about what's wrong with the federal government run amok, it's this as much as anything.

EDIT: If forgot to add "arrogant" to my list of adjectives describing the federal anti-drug apparatus.

[Okla-homey]

So now we have a bloated, aggressive, voracious, well-armed, extremely powerful, and largely unaccountable federal law enforcement apparatus that has a vested interest in perpetuating an illogical and wasteful "War on Drugs." This should not be a surprise; it was inevitable. You want to talk about what's wrong with the federal government run amok, it's this as much as anything.

EDIT: If forgot to add "arrogant" to my list of adjectives describing the federal anti-drug apparatus.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The sooner this nation decides criminalization of drug use is an utter waste of time and national treasure, the better. Much better option: legalize it all and tax the ever-loving sh_t out of it. You know, like the "legal" addictive substances; tobacco and alcohol.

[47straight]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The sooner this nation decides criminalization of drug use is an utter waste of time and national treasure, the better. Much better option: legalize it all and tax the ever-loving sh_t out of it. You know, like the "legal" addictive substances; tobacco and alcohol.

I propose a tax of 7 days in the pokey per ounce.

[47straight]

The ATF are fascist jack booted thugs -- plain and simple. The DEA seems to be just as out of control as the ATF at this point.


Dude, it's not like they seceded from the Union and started a war or anything.

[47straight]

So now we have a bloated, aggressive, voracious, well-armed, extremely powerful, and largely unaccountable federal law enforcement apparatus that has a vested interest in perpetuating an illogical and wasteful "War on Drugs." This should not be a surprise; it was inevitable. You want to talk about what's wrong with the federal government run amok, it's this as much as anything.

EDIT: If forgot to add "arrogant" to my list of adjectives describing the federal anti-drug apparatus.

Nah dude, except the well-armed part I think you misspoke and meant the Federal court system.

[SicEmBaylor]

Dude, it's not like they seceded from the Union and started a war or anything.

So anti-centralized government folks are akin to fascists? Especially since the government they were seceding from took on a large number of distinctly fascistic characteristics...I know. I know -- you're only kidding, and I'm reading too much into it. I'll take your sniveling sarcastic comment in the spirit it was intended and move on. ;)

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The sooner this nation decides criminalization of drug use is an utter waste of time and national treasure, the better. Much better option: legalize it all and tax the ever-loving sh_t out of it. You know, like the "legal" addictive substances; tobacco and alcohol.
If you "tax the ever loving **** out of it", drug sales will stay underground and remain controlled by cartels will they not?

[Harry Beanbag]

Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Sounds like a wild red neck party! Hey Dalton, watch this........


Around here we just call it the weekend.

[GDC]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The sooner this nation decides criminalization of drug use is an utter waste of time and national treasure, the better. Much better option: legalize it all and tax the ever-loving sh_t out of it. You know, like the "legal" addictive substances; tobacco and alcohol.


I strongly agree, but it's not going to be in our lifetimes.

http://newsok.com/gov.-mary-fallin-snuffs-out-talk-of-legalizing-marijuana/article/3591757#0_undefined,0_

[MR2-Sooner86]

I strongly agree, but it's not going to be in our lifetimes.

http://newsok.com/gov.-mary-fallin-snuffs-out-talk-of-legalizing-marijuana/article/3591757#0_undefined,0_

That's because, for the most part, Republicans see the War on Drugs as good thing for public health, public safety, and it keeps "hippies" from becoming a "drain" on our system.


the DEA does a lot of good that few ever hear about

Oh we just never hear about it? I see. I guess when you hear about the 4th amendment being ignored, innocent people getting shot, and government run drug deals that stuff gets pushed back to page 12 where it's hard to see.

[Jerk]

That's because, for the most part, Republicans see the War on Drugs as good thing for public health, public safety, and it keeps "hippies" from becoming a "drain" on our system.



I'm more right wing than attila the hun and I tell you right now that the 'war on drugs' is a total waste and failure. Same as prohibition.

[Jerk]

I hear this term tossed about in right wing lingo quite a bit (which is ironic if you think about it). I don't think I've ever seen an IRS agent with "jack boots" on. Your average federal agent is highly trained and qualified and few applicants trying for these positions are selected. I doubt the prevalence of "thug" behavior (although I'm sure I will hear an anecdotal account about someone's drunken gun crazy Uncle getting beat down or capped).

I suppose if people don't like a law then sulking and name calling at those who enforce it makes them feel empowered?

ATF = left wing political activists disguised as law enforcement.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I'm more right wing than attila the hun and I tell you right now that the 'war on drugs' is a total waste and failure. Same as prohibition.

That's why I added "for the most part" because some Republicans actually are for small government and just want to leave it to the states. However if we look at who gave the War on Drugs steroids (Reagan), who are the ones saying that the death penalty is alright for drug dealers, and who even started the whole thing in the first place, that would be the Republicans.

It's not all of them, and there are Democrats who feel the same way (see Clinton firing Joycelyn Elders).

[GDC]

You're forgetting the law enforcement, prison, and rehabilitation industries the war on drugs support, that's big business.

Even the NAACP came out in support of legalizing drugs.

[TUSooner]

You're forgetting the law enforcement, prison, and rehabilitation industries the war on drugs support, that's big business.

Even the NAACP came out in support of legalizing drugs.

Even my court job depends to some extent on drug prohibition... and illegal immigration. :rolleyes:

[Jerk]

That's why I added "for the most part" because some Republicans actually are for small government and just want to leave it to the states. However if we look at who gave the War on Drugs steroids (Reagan), who are the ones saying that the death penalty is alright for drug dealers, and who even started the whole thing in the first place, that would be the Republicans.

It's not all of them, and there are Democrats who feel the same way (see Clinton firing Joycelyn Elders).

I'm not an establishment Bush-Bohner type Republican. I am a Classical Liberal. Wiki nails the definition dead on except for the social Darwinism stuff that some left-wing hack put on there. My philosophy is real simple: if what I'm doing doesn't effect your rights, then mind your own business.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I'm not an establishment Bush-Bohner type Republican. I am a Classical Liberal. Wiki nails the definition dead on except for the social Darwinism stuff that some left-wing hack put on there. My philosophy is real simple: if what I'm doing doesn't effect your rights, then mind your own business.

Welcome to the Libertarian movement :D

[TUSooner]

That's because, for the most part, Republicans see the War on Drugs as good thing for public health, public safety, and it is a good excuse to keep poor uneducated black men in prison.
A slight correction. In fairness, it is also a good excuse to keep some genuine scum bags in prison when you can't get them for other scumbaggery.



Oh we just never hear about it? I see. I guess when you hear about the 4th amendment being ignored, innocent people getting shot, and government run drug deals that stuff gets pushed back to page 12 where it's hard to see.
The Fourth Am. is not ignored; it's tortured.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I watched some TV program in which the AFT was hitting stores that sell cigarettes with no tax stamps - i.e., blackmarket smokes.

They seemed like regular, decent law enforcement people to me.:)