View Full Version : THE DOW IS DOWN 409 POINTS TODAY
SoonerNate
8/4/2011, 02:30 PM
Hope and Change LOL
jk the sooner fan
8/4/2011, 02:32 PM
you do realize that the dow goes down during GOP administrations too right?
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 02:32 PM
It has as much to do with overseas worries as anything...
SoonerNate
8/4/2011, 02:33 PM
Good thing we raised the debt ceiling or all hell would have broken l....
oh wait.
Good thing we raised the debt ceiling or all hell would have broken l....
oh wait.
409 would've been chump change.
SoonerNate
8/4/2011, 02:37 PM
Or wall street was celebrating obama's birthday.
LMAO
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 02:38 PM
409 would've been chump change.
Yep....
I Am Right
8/4/2011, 02:38 PM
What did you expect?
Flagstaffsooner
8/4/2011, 02:39 PM
But the Kenya Idiot Exchange is up.
SELL, SELL, SELL, people!
Oh, and get Sammie B on speeddial pronto. Someone needs to ring Dow's bell again so that it gets back up.
XingTheRubicon
8/4/2011, 02:41 PM
8-4 is my birthday as well.
I'm charging a guest fee, too...and I've invited Obama, for 14.5 T.
TUSooner
8/4/2011, 02:45 PM
Hope and Change LOL
I see what people mean when they put you in the Lame League with Clone and cruiser. :(
Position Limit
8/4/2011, 02:47 PM
Hope and Change LOL
go team. fight. win. i'll see your 409 points and raise you 5000. awaiting talking point rebuttal....
SicEmBaylor
8/4/2011, 02:48 PM
I can see my thread had its desired effect.
Barry's_Scowl
8/4/2011, 02:50 PM
Hope and Change LOL
I was just heading over here to say "Quick! Someone blame Obama!"
Time to get this red state circle-jerk fired up.
LOL indeed.
I don't expect this to last. People like making money too much to take their money and stop playing the stock game.
I fully expect a big rise after the massive selloff today when people try to make a quick buck off the suddenly lower stock prices.
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 02:53 PM
I don't expect this to last. People like making money too much to take their money and stop playing the stock game.
I fully expect a big rise after the massive selloff today when people try to make a quick buck off the suddenly lower stock prices.
It is called a Dead Cat Bounce...
SoonerNate
8/4/2011, 02:53 PM
I see what people mean when they put you in the Lame League with Clone and cruiser. :(
Care to discuss the topic at hand?
Just so you know I am not a Republican btw.
The Profit
8/4/2011, 02:55 PM
Phil is correct. This has as much to do with foreign markets as it has to do with anything. However, the tea baggers did us no favors by dragging out the debt ceiling issue for 6 months.
royalfan5
8/4/2011, 02:56 PM
I don't expect this to last. People like making money too much to take their money and stop playing the stock game.
I fully expect a big rise after the massive selloff today when people try to make a quick buck off the suddenly lower stock prices.
Considering we've shredder some key technical indicators I wouldn't get too hung up on that. Also, you can make money in a down market too.
Veritas
8/4/2011, 02:57 PM
It's down. Big deal. Good opportunity to grab a round lot of AAPL for a quick profit when it bounces back next week.
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 02:57 PM
Care to discuss the topic at hand?
Just so you know I am not a Republican btw.
Not much to discuss...most developed countries have economies that are in the chitter...various world entities on the verge of bk...US cities and counties filing for bk...the political rhetoric has scared the consumer who is holding onto their money tighter than ever....
Caboose
8/4/2011, 03:01 PM
Phil is correct. This has as much to do with foreign markets as it has to do with anything. However, the Democrats did us no favors by dragging out the debt ceiling issue for 3 years.
Fixed it for you.
SoonerNate
8/4/2011, 03:02 PM
The reason I rip on Obama is because when he was running and shortly after his election everyone thought he was the second coming. As bad as W was he hasn't fixed ANYTHING and the entire system has become a joke. Yet some continue to defend him the way others defended W.
The Profit
8/4/2011, 03:02 PM
Fixed it for you.
Fix your own crap...leave my posts alone.
SoonerNate
8/4/2011, 03:03 PM
...make it 509 points.
Caboose
8/4/2011, 03:03 PM
Fix your own crap...leave my posts alone.
Mine are correct the first time. Yours are full of stupid.
cccasooner2
8/4/2011, 03:05 PM
As usual, the "risk takers" want no risk for themselves but rather push it to the masses to cover their bets. Listen to the talking heads on MSNBC, they are already asking/begging for Fed/Govt intervention. A real comedy show.
XingTheRubicon
8/4/2011, 03:06 PM
Phil is correct. This has as much to do with foreign markets as it has to do with anything. However, the tea baggers did us no favors by dragging out the debt ceiling issue for 6 months.
Quick question: Do you think world's largest investors would have more confidence in US markets if Obama got exactly what he wanted on the debt ceiling issue or if the tea party got exactly what they wanted.
Just want to see if you're mildly ignorant or fantastically ignorant.
oumartin
8/4/2011, 03:08 PM
...make it 509 points.
How's the budget coming along?
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 03:09 PM
Quick question: Do you think world's largest investors would have more confidence in US markets if Obama got exactly what he wanted on the debt ceiling issue or if the tea party got exactly what they wanted.
Just want to see if you're mildly ignorant or fantastically ignorant.
The answer damn sure ain't the Tea Baggers...the markets would have been a disaster if we hadn't raised the debt ceiling and we went on to eventually default or shut down major parts of government...
Caboose
8/4/2011, 03:10 PM
The answer damn sure ain't the Tea Baggers...the markets would have been a disaster if we hadn't raised the debt ceiling and we went on to eventually default or shut down major parts of government...
We wouldn't have defaulted.
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 03:10 PM
We wouldn't have defaulted.
Then we would have shut down a large part of the government and the reaction would have been the same...
And the rating would have been downgraded costing us more on future borrowings/Treasury issues.
SoonerNate
8/4/2011, 03:12 PM
We should have a contest to see who can come up with the best Barry Hussein next political Pepsi looking logo.
Eielson
8/4/2011, 03:12 PM
Even with this drop, the DOW has risen about 5,000 in a little over two years. Stocks will rise and fall regardless of who is president.
tommieharris91
8/4/2011, 03:13 PM
Meh. No US president could have stopped the contagion coming out of Europe. The eurozone is in worse shape than us.
Bourbon St Sooner
8/4/2011, 03:13 PM
Look at the bright side. When Italy defaults and the Euro breaks up, trips to Rome will get a lot cheaper. For those that have any money by then anyways.
XingTheRubicon
8/4/2011, 03:14 PM
The answer damn sure ain't the Tea Baggers...the markets would have been a disaster if we hadn't raised the debt ceiling and we went on to eventually default or shut down major parts of government...
So if the tea party had control of all 3 branches, their goal would have been to default and shut down the gov't?
The tea party and some other R's wanted to freeze spending and make real cuts.
tommieharris91
8/4/2011, 03:15 PM
And the rating would have been downgraded costing us more on future borrowings/Treasury issues.
Yet 5 year treasuries have had negative interest rates throughout July.
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 03:15 PM
And the rating would have been downgraded costing us more on future borrowings/Treasury issues.
Probably a 1/4%...maybe a half....not much but it would add many billions to debt servicing...though, down the road, those increases are going to happen anyway...we can't keep the fed funds rate at .25% for forever....
Phil is correct. This has as much to do with foreign markets as it has to do with anything. However, the tea baggers did us no favors by dragging out the debt ceiling issue for 6 months.--- The debt deal has nothing to do with it the economy is slowing and your boy Barack is sinking
You are going to pay more as an issuer for a lower rated bond issue relative to current market conditions than you would a higher rated bond issue so the cost to service the debt would be a real increase.
NormanPride
8/4/2011, 03:17 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, I believe I shall make a troll. It will post roughly twice to three times a day, and post simply about how much it hates cheese. It will invade threads to talk about how cheese causes whatever is the current talking point, or how said talking point would be so much better without cheese. Upon any poster commenting on these inane and nonsensical post I will have the troll call them a cheese lover, or post assumptions about how since they disagree with the troll that they must think that cheese solves everything and can make babies sing like dolphins because it is so amazing.
That is all.
Yet 5 year treasuries have had negative interest rates throughout July.
What?
Bourbon St Sooner
8/4/2011, 03:19 PM
And the rating would have been downgraded costing us more on future borrowings/Treasury issues.
The ratings agencies could have downgraded the US and treasuries would still be rallying, thanks to the cluster**** that is Europe.
Does anybody listen to the ratings agencies anymore after their farcical ratings of MBSs that caused the 2008 crash.
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 03:20 PM
So if the tea party had control of all 3 branches, their goal would have been to default and shut down the gov't?
The tea party and some other R's wanted to freeze spending and make real cuts.
The current debt ceiling has nothing to do with future spending...it is what we have already spent and have to pay....
We were going to have to come up with big bucks real f'n quick or somebody wasn't going to be paid...the bondholders are first in line (unless you owned GM bonds) and they were going to get their money...there was no way to continue to finance over the long term without a debt increase...
10 or 20 years ago we might have survived...but we are so far in the hole we must raise the ceiling...
We only have enough revenue coming in to finance 90% of the social spending...we could cut the entire military...entire education...entire science...entire everything other than social spending and we would STILL need to raise the debt ceiling to pay current obligations...
OutlandTrophy
8/4/2011, 03:20 PM
I bet our rating gets downgraded anyways. If it doesn't then Moody's is a scam.
Would you invest in a company with a financial statement like the Federal Governments?
The ratings agencies could have downgraded the US and treasuries would still be rallying, thanks to the cluster**** that is Europe.
Does anybody listen to the ratings agencies anymore after their farcical ratings of MBSs that caused the 2008 crash.
Believe it or not, yes. The ratings still play a huge role in what you're going to pay for borrowing.
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 03:21 PM
The ratings agencies could have downgraded the US and treasuries would still be rallying, thanks to the cluster**** that is Europe.
Does anybody listen to the ratings agencies anymore after their farcical ratings of MBSs that caused the 2008 crash.
Correct...I said it long ago...last country spending gets screwed....
SoonerNate
8/4/2011, 03:21 PM
Moody's threatened a downgrade months ago and Barry was begging them not to.
Chicago style thuggery at its finest.
cccasooner2
8/4/2011, 03:22 PM
Phil is correct. This has as much to do with foreign markets as it has to do with anything. However, the tea baggers did us no favors by dragging out the debt ceiling issue for 6 months.
Disagree; the tea baggers were giving you an extra amount of time to sell and sell short.
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 03:22 PM
I bet our rating gets downgraded anyways. If it doesn't then Moody's is a scam.
Would you invest in a company with a financial statement like the Federal Governments?
I think so too...and if anyone thinks this bipartisan committee is going to be effective has rocks in their head...
Oldnslo
8/4/2011, 03:24 PM
I bet our rating gets downgraded anyways. If it doesn't then Moody's is a scam.
Would you invest in a company with a financial statement like the Federal Governments?
very few companies print their own money.
delhalew
8/4/2011, 03:25 PM
Consumer confidence. YWIA.
NormanPride
8/4/2011, 03:26 PM
Or have a military the size of ours.
OutlandTrophy
8/4/2011, 03:26 PM
very few companies print their own money.
I have a "friend" that does this. Could he put you on retainer?
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 03:26 PM
Consumer confidence. YWIA.
Yep...did you work on your tan today?
XingTheRubicon
8/4/2011, 03:27 PM
The current debt ceiling has nothing to do with future spending...it is what we have already spent and have to pay....
We were going to have to come up with big bucks real f'n quick or somebody wasn't going to be paid...the bondholders are first in line (unless you owned GM bonds) and they were going to get their money...there was no way to continue to finance over the long term without a debt increase...
10 or 20 years ago we might have survived...but we are so far in the hole we must raise the ceiling...
We only have enough revenue coming in to finance 90% of the social spending...we could cut the entire military...entire education...entire science...entire everything other than social spending and we would STILL need to raise the debt ceiling to pay current obligations...
Why don't you google what the tea party was originally asking IN ADDITION to the debt ceiling being raised and save everyone some time.
tommieharris91
8/4/2011, 03:27 PM
What?
I bet our rating gets downgraded anyways. If it doesn't then Moody's is a scam.
Would you invest in a company with a financial statement like the Federal Governments?
A lot of people apparently say "Yes." (http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=realyield)
Besides, Moody's showed they were a sham company when they said things like "We would slap a AAA rating on a security written by cows."
A lot of people apparently say "Yes." (http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=realyield)
Besides, Moody's showed they were a sham company when they said things like "We would slap a AAA rating on a security written by cows."
No, I said "What?" to your post about the 5 year Treasury having negative interest rates and I don't know what you meant. They don't even have a negative yield.
Bourbon St Sooner
8/4/2011, 03:29 PM
I bet our rating gets downgraded anyways. If it doesn't then Moody's is a scam.
Would you invest in a company with a financial statement like the Federal Governments?
Moody's, S&P, Fitch are scams and have been for a long time. There's a huge conflict of interest when the people paying you for your rating have a financial stake in getting a certain rating.
XingTheRubicon
8/4/2011, 03:31 PM
No, I said "What?" to your post about the 5 year Treasury having negative interest rates and I don't know what you meant. They don't even have a negative yield.
negative attitude
tommieharris91
8/4/2011, 03:32 PM
No, I said "What?" to your post about the 5 year Treasury having negative interest rates and I don't know what you meant. They don't even have a negative yield.
Well, there's the yield curve for you.
Well, there's the yield curve for you.
Oh, got it.
:confused:
SoonerNate
8/4/2011, 03:42 PM
Now that we are entering a double dip recession will the media continue to blame it on Bush or will this one become Obama's?
Meh. No US president could have stopped the contagion coming out of Europe. The eurozone is in worse shape than us.
Yeah. Having a bunch of independent nations playing by their own rules with the currency the effects them all collectively probably wasn't as good of an idea as it originally sounded.
tommieharris91
8/4/2011, 03:44 PM
BTW, I got rates and yields confused. Rates are very low, but not negative. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=USGG5YR:IND)
OklahomaTuba
8/4/2011, 03:51 PM
"We cannot simply go back to the way things used to be. We can't go back to an economy that yielded cycle after cycle of speculative booms and painful busts."
--Obama
December, 2009
Happy Birthday, Mr. President!
BTW, I got rates and yields confused. Rates are very low, but not negative. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=USGG5YR:IND)
Yes, and they have been for about 3 years now. Bloomberg says the yield on the 5 year is about 1.1%. I'm sure they went up today as the market was falling.
texaspokieokie
8/4/2011, 03:57 PM
I don't expect this to last. People like making money too much to take their money and stop playing the stock game.
I fully expect a big rise after the massive selloff today when people try to make a quick buck off the suddenly lower stock prices.
i sure hope you're right !!!!
tommieharris91
8/4/2011, 03:57 PM
Yes, and they have been for about 3 years now. Bloomberg says the yield on the 5 year is about 1.1%. I'm sure they went up today as the market was falling.
:confused:
The Profit
8/4/2011, 03:58 PM
--- The debt deal has nothing to do with it the economy is slowing and your boy Barack is sinking
The economy began slowing when the dirty stinking oil companies decided to raise prices dramatically in a weak, but recovering, market. Higher petroleum prices stopped any economic growth. You fail to realize that this Bush economy had suffered through the worst recession since the great depression. Bush left this country in the worst shape since a former repbulican president, Hoover, left it 80 years ago.
:confused:
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/us/
Some of the market experts can correct me but I think the Treasury yield tends to work opposite the stock market. When the market sells off, yields in the Treasury markets are driven up...flight to safety effect. I could be wrong.
Bourbon St Sooner
8/4/2011, 04:02 PM
The economy began slowing when the dirty stinking oil companies decided to raise prices dramatically in a weak, but recovering, market. Higher petroleum prices stopped any economic growth. You fail to realize that this Bush economy had suffered through the worst recession since the great depression. Bush left this country in the worst shape since a former repbulican president, Hoover, left it 80 years ago.
Do you have a program that automatically inserts this same post into threads on a periodic basis?
The economy began slowing when the dirty stinking oil companies decided to raise prices dramatically in a weak, but recovering, market. Higher petroleum prices stopped any economic growth. You fail to realize that this Bush economy had suffered through the worst recession since the great depression. Bush left this country in the worst shape since a former repbulican president, Hoover, left it 80 years ago.---You are clueless about how the oil market operates ---Barack put together a poor economic team--- And went to war against business--- What other outcome would you expect?
Bourbon St Sooner
8/4/2011, 04:03 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/us/
Some of the market experts can correct me but I think the Treasury yield tends to work opposite the stock market. When the market sells off, yields in the Treasury markets are driven up...flight to safety effect. I could be wrong.
Actually, it's the other way around. Money flows out of stocks and into bonds driving bond prices up and yields down.
Actually, it's the other way around. Money flows out of stocks and into bonds driving bond prices up and yields down.
That's what I meant...thanks! :D
87sooner
8/4/2011, 04:07 PM
The economy began slowing when the dirty stinking oil companies decided to raise prices dramatically in a weak, but recovering, market. Higher petroleum prices stopped any economic growth. You fail to realize that this Bush economy had suffered through the worst recession since the great depression. Bush left this country in the worst shape since a former repbulican president, Hoover, left it 80 years ago.
you should be happy....
the dirty stinking oil companies lowered the price of gas today...
The economy began slowing when the dirty stinking oil companies decided to raise prices dramatically in a weak, but recovering, market. Higher petroleum prices stopped any economic growth. You fail to realize that this Bush economy had suffered through the worst recession since the great depression. Bush left this country in the worst shape since a former repbulican president, Hoover, left it 80 years ago.
Both markets suffered today. Oil was lowest in 6 months. Considering that gas prices are averaging around $3.70 right now, might be a good time to hold off for the inevitable drop in prices if you can hold out a few days.
you should be happy....
the dirty stinking oil companies lowered the price of gas today...
No, they lowered the price of oil.....gas should follow that with about a .5% decline in a month or two. :D
GKeeper316
8/4/2011, 04:08 PM
Moody's, S&P, Fitch are scams and have been for a long time. There's a huge conflict of interest when the people paying you for your rating have a financial stake in getting a certain rating.
ya but there's no professional organization with an ethics code dictating the practices of investment banks the way there is for attorneys and such. it is a conflict of interest, but they are under no obligation to excuse themselves from the equasion because of it.
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 04:10 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/us/
Some of the market experts can correct me but I think the Treasury yield tends to work opposite the stock market. When the market sells off, yields in the Treasury markets are driven up...flight to safety effect. I could be wrong.
If money is pulled from the stock market and is moved into the Treasury market the yield should fall...
With more money chasing bonds they fed doesn't need to give a bigger yield...
But you also have your principle in play....
Say you buy a 5 year bond at 10% for 1000 bucks at issue...
Yields then go up to 12% on the 5 year bond...now you are screwed...people today can get 2% more interest than your 10% bond for the same 1000 bucks...so, you gotta choice, you can hold it till maturity and get only 10% interest and then your entire grand back...or try to sell it...if you sell your 10% bond you will not get your total $1000 investment..who will pay a grand for a 10% bond when you can get 12 on the open market...the amount of the principle you receive will be determined by current rates and how much longer till your bond matures...
Now, if rates go down you are in the money...you are holding a 10% bond when rates are, say, 7%...people will pay you more than your initial grand investment to get your great 10% rate...again, how much more than a grand you receive will depend on term left on the bond and the exact current rate...
Hope this helps...
soonercruiser
8/4/2011, 04:22 PM
Phil is correct. This has as much to do with foreign markets as it has to do with anything. However, the tea baggers did us no favors by dragging out the debt ceiling issue for 6 months.
Yup!
Should have held out for the "Balanced Budget"
soonercruiser
8/4/2011, 04:27 PM
As usual, the "risk takers" want no risk for themselves but rather push it to the masses to cover their bets. Listen to the talking heads on MSNBC, they are already asking/begging for Fed/Govt intervention. A real comedy show.
Can't you just imagine the delusional lies that will be coming out of the Lame Stream Media when we get close to the 2012 election????!!!!
The Zoloft shelves will be empty!
:O
soonercruiser
8/4/2011, 04:30 PM
The answer damn sure ain't the Tea Baggers...the markets would have been a disaster if we hadn't raised the debt ceiling and we went on to eventually default or shut down major parts of government...
Phil!
Do you really think that a meltdown won't happen in the future??
TODAY!!! DEBT = GDP!!!
What did you want? A debt ceiling raise with no conditions!
You are smarter than that.
Phil!
Do you really think that a meltdown won't happen in the future??
TODAY!!! DEBT = GDP!!!
What did you want? A debt ceiling raise with no conditions!
You are smarter than that.---Debt being = to GDP is a huge deal
soonercruiser
8/4/2011, 04:34 PM
I think so too...and if anyone thinks this bipartisan committee is going to be effective has rocks in their head...
...you means like Obama's Debt Reduction Committee recommendations last year?????
soonercruiser
8/4/2011, 04:38 PM
The economy began slowing when the dirty stinking oil companies decided to raise prices dramatically in a weak, but recovering, market. Higher petroleum prices stopped any economic growth. You fail to realize that this Bush economy had suffered through the worst recession since the great depression. Bush left this country in the worst shape since a former repbulican president, Hoover, left it 80 years ago.
Repeat post!
:(
pphilfran
8/4/2011, 04:44 PM
Phil!
Do you really think that a meltdown won't happen in the future??
TODAY!!! DEBT = GDP!!!
What did you want? A debt ceiling raise with no conditions!
You are smarter than that.
They planned to put in a debt ceiling and then be able to vote on raising it during dire circumstances,,,
Do you actually have confidence in our DC leadership to make wise decisions at at moments notice? Do you actually think they wouldn't raise the ceiling just like they have in the past?
They are worms and will more often do the opposite of what they say or write...
Divers recommendation to limit spending to something less than inflation is a good idea...
Again, the debt ceiling is what we have already spent and owe...if you don't raise it you will have a hundred billion a month revenue shortfall...
Where are you going to find a a hundred billion a month extra so we can pay the bills?
We are definitely at a crossroads...we do things wrong and downgrades in debt is inevitable down the road...default is still a long way down the road and slim at the current time...
But there is still a chance to get things turned around...but with a stagnated economy the chances are slim...we have to get GDP growth up and running
Bourbon St Sooner
8/4/2011, 04:44 PM
ya but there's no professional organization with an ethics code dictating the practices of investment banks the way there is for attorneys and such. it is a conflict of interest, but they are under no obligation to excuse themselves from the equasion because of it.
Professional organizations don't matter. The AICPA said for years that it was OK to audit a company's books and at the same time sell them high margin consulting services. Nobody paid attention to the conflict of interest there until Enron and WorldCom.
It's down. Big deal. Good opportunity to grab a round lot of AAPL for a quick profit when it bounces back next week.
A whole round lot? Bruce?
You'll need to sell your $43,000 Yukon for that.
StoopTroup
8/4/2011, 05:04 PM
Hope and Change LOL
Nice bait thread.
StoopTroup
8/4/2011, 05:09 PM
Phil!
Do you really think that a meltdown won't happen in the future??
TODAY!!! DEBT = GDP!!!
What did you want? A debt ceiling raise with no conditions!
You are smarter than that.
They could have settled the debt ceiling over 2 months ago and this wouldn't have either happened or it would have been just another market correction. Since they had to go and drag this out and show the instability of the folks who run our Government in both parties this is what happens.
Politics caused all of this.
We should fire every one of the Folks in Congress.
The Profit
8/4/2011, 05:22 PM
It was just announced that the house of representatives had a 14 percent approval rating. This is the lowest rating in the history of this type of polling.
It was just announced that the house of representatives had a 14 percent approval rating. This is the lowest rating in the history of this type of polling.---What did the Senate look like?
87sooner
8/4/2011, 05:26 PM
It was just announced that the house of representatives had a 14 percent approval rating. This is the lowest rating in the history of this type of polling.
that's just great...
but come election time....they'll all get re-elected....
The Profit
8/4/2011, 05:31 PM
---What did the Senate look like?
Releasing the senate poll later tonight. Don't know if it is Gallup, Rasmussen, Quinippiac, etc.
The Profit
8/4/2011, 05:32 PM
that's just great...
but come election time....they'll all get re-elected....
You are probably right, 87. Unfortunately.
Looks like to me that Congess hit the new low not just the House--- http://www.gallup.com/poll/145238/congress-job-approval-rating-worst-gallup-history.aspx
cccasooner2
8/4/2011, 05:39 PM
Looks like to me that Congess hit the new low--- http://www.gallup.com/poll/145238/congress-job-approval-rating-worst-gallup-history.aspx
Things are much better today than they were around Dec. 15, 2010. :rolleyes:
sheepdogs
8/4/2011, 06:44 PM
Interest rates are comprised of three components; the real interest rate plus the inflation rate plus what is called a commingling component and all three added up gives you the "nominal interest rate." The commingling term is fairly inconsequential as it comprises a minute amount of the nominal amount so the two main components of the nominal rate would be the real and inflation rates combined. Now since the inflation rate is greater than the nominal rate this implies that the real interest rate "must be negative." When this occurs investors are not compensated for investing in interest bearing securities so the money flows elsewhere such as stocks,a host of commodities and the currency markets.
Lott's Bandana
8/4/2011, 07:05 PM
Releasing the senate poll later tonight. Don't know if it is Gallup, Rasmussen, Quinippiac, etc.
Too bad this isn't a post-season poll.
soonerbub
8/4/2011, 07:13 PM
Carnage continues in Asia
Nikkei -4%
Aussie -3% make that 4%
sheepdogs
8/4/2011, 07:47 PM
Carnage continues in Asia
Nikkei -4%
Aussie -3% make that 4%
This is just follow up to our market drop. Over night futures are "currently positive" for the Dow, S&P and Nasdaq.
http://classic.cnbc.com/id/17689937
Sooner5030
8/4/2011, 07:49 PM
limiting the spending to less than inflation wont help when you are spending $1.00 for every $.60 revenue. By that standard in 8 years we will be $24 trillion in debt with $17 trillion of GDP.
We're in this mess because there was never and will never be a good time to balance the budget. Whether it's fightin terrist or stimulating something.....there will always be an excuse.
Just eat the f'king contraction one year and then we can start with natural growth. Get it over with already.
bigfatjerk
8/4/2011, 08:13 PM
limiting the spending to less than inflation wont help when you are spending $1.00 for every $.60 revenue. By that standard in 8 years we will be $24 trillion in debt with $17 trillion of GDP.
We're in this mess because there was never and will never be a good time to balance the budget. Whether it's fightin terrist or stimulating something.....there will always be an excuse.
Just eat the f'king contraction one year and then we can start with natural growth. Get it over with already.
You don't even have to be all that radical in cutting the budget down. Just freeze spending levels to the last year of the Bush Administration which was outrageous enough already. Then cut it by 1-2% every year and it would be balanced in about 5-10 years. But the fact is that nobody wants to do something like this it would make too much sense.
diverdog
8/4/2011, 08:26 PM
You don't even have to be all that radical in cutting the budget down. Just freeze spending levels to the last year of the Bush Administration which was outrageous enough already. Then cut it by 1-2% every year and it would be balanced in about 5-10 years. But the fact is that nobody wants to do something like this it would make too much sense.
It isn't that easy. You think the industries that depend on federal funding like defense are going to let that happen?
Eielson
8/4/2011, 08:37 PM
How many people in this thread actually know what they're talking about?
colleyvillesooner
8/4/2011, 08:40 PM
over/under is 2
Sooner5030
8/4/2011, 08:44 PM
How many people in this thread actually know what they're talking about?
How many folks have actually read the gubments annual audited financial statements (located at GOA.gov) over the last five years vs. those that just read some newspaper, website or magazine for their data?
bigfatjerk
8/4/2011, 08:55 PM
It isn't that easy. You think the industries that depend on federal funding like defense are going to let that happen?
It's not just defense it's entitlements also. We have to go after those big things in order to get our house in order.
bigfatjerk
8/4/2011, 09:10 PM
Balancing the Budget
It's time to get serious about cutting government spending.
John Stossel | August 4, 2011
The political class predicted "disaster" if Congress didn't raise its debt limit.
I think that was a scam to get more money. See, the poor politicians don't have enough, and they need to borrow more. We taxpayers are cheap. This year we'll give them only $2.2 trillion. They want to spend $3.8 trillion.
The president said if he didn't get more money, Social Security checks wouldn't go out. Why not?
With $2 trillion, they can pay Social Security, Medicare, the interest on the debt, and still have billions left. It's billions more than the government spent when President George W. Bush took office. What's the problem?
The problem is that Republicans and Democrats under Bush and President Obama doubled spending. Now, Obama wants more taxes.
Taxes shouldn't be the answer when spending is the problem.
Grover Norquist, who heads Americans for Tax Reform (ATR), leads the charge to keep the focus on spending. Norquist and ATR are famous for asking officeholders and candidates to sign a pledge not to raise taxes. Some say he is the reason the debt-ceiling debate was so drawn out.
"I think the reason there isn't a tax increase on the table," he told me, "is that 235 members of the House of Representatives signed a pledge never to raise taxes, a pledge to their voters, and 41 senators did. ...
"Only if you take tax increases off the table do you even begin to ... focus on spending, and that's what Obama wants to keep our focus off of. He wants us to talk about the deficit, not spending."
I pointed out that Obama might have scored points with the public because new revenues he sought—even though they wouldn't do much to shrink the deficit—would come from closing unpopular tax "loopholes."
Norquist said he favors that—if tax rates are lowered at the same time.
"(We) want to simplify the code," he said. "(We) want to take a lot of the goodies that politicians have laced into that code ... as long as you reduce tax rates and it's not a hidden tax increase."
Milton Friedman always said taxes don't tell the whole story. What counts is how much of our resources government spends, however it acquires them. The doubling of spending under Bush and Obama hasn't gotten enough attention.
"We need to ask what it is government should do," Norquist said. "But it's going to be knockdown, drag-out. All government overspending creates the constituency for its own perpetuation. ... Weaning people off, that is very difficult."
He's right. When politicians make little cuts in the rate of spending growth, every interest group mobilizes to protect its little piece of the pie. That's why you must cut government like you take off a Band-Aid: quickly and all at once.
It's not hard to balance the budget. On my show, we made enough cuts to create a $237 billion surplus. I cut whole departments, like Education and Commerce. I cut two-thirds of the Defense Department (which still leaves it much bigger than China's). I indexed Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security to inflation, raised the retirement age, and took away benefits for rich people. But I don't have to run for office. Congressmen do, and they can't even manage to cut ridiculous tax breaks like those for ethanol.
Obama predicted disaster if the debt ceiling wasn't raised. Some predict disaster if the ratings agencies downgrade Treasury bonds. I'm dubious. In 1995, President Clinton and Republican Congress couldn't agree on a budget, so the government shut down twice, the second time for three weeks.
Did the economy grind to a halt? No. During the first shutdown, the stock market went up. During the second, it dropped then recovered.
The alarmists screamed that the fight over the debt ceiling would discourage lenders. Wrong. Ten-year Treasury bonds sold for a measly 3 percent interest (versus 15 percent in 1981).
I wasn't worried that Congress would fail to raise the debt ceiling. But I am worried that Congress will keep spending.
John Stossel is host of Stossel on the Fox Business Network. He's the author of Give Me a Break and of Myth, Lies, and Downright Stupidity.
http://reason.com/archives/2011/08/04/balancing-the-budget
diverdog
8/4/2011, 09:11 PM
It's not just defense it's entitlements also. We have to go after those big things in order to get our house in order.
I do not disagree. However, the Supreme Court case that all the righties were cheering about that allowed unlimited campaign funding for corporations is going to come back and haunt them. Many of them like the status quo and they are not about to give up billion dollar contracts without a big fight.
diverdog
8/4/2011, 09:14 PM
Balancing the Budget
It's time to get serious about cutting government spending.
John Stossel | August 4, 2011
The political class predicted "disaster" if Congress didn't raise its debt limit.
I think that was a scam to get more money. See, the poor politicians don't have enough, and they need to borrow more. We taxpayers are cheap. This year we'll give them only $2.2 trillion. They want to spend $3.8 trillion.
The president said if he didn't get more money, Social Security checks wouldn't go out. Why not?
With $2 trillion, they can pay Social Security, Medicare, the interest on the debt, and still have billions left. It's billions more than the government spent when President George W. Bush took office. What's the problem?
The problem is that Republicans and Democrats under Bush and President Obama doubled spending. Now, Obama wants more taxes.
Taxes shouldn't be the answer when spending is the problem.
Grover Norquist, who heads Americans for Tax Reform (ATR), leads the charge to keep the focus on spending. Norquist and ATR are famous for asking officeholders and candidates to sign a pledge not to raise taxes. Some say he is the reason the debt-ceiling debate was so drawn out.
"I think the reason there isn't a tax increase on the table," he told me, "is that 235 members of the House of Representatives signed a pledge never to raise taxes, a pledge to their voters, and 41 senators did. ...
"Only if you take tax increases off the table do you even begin to ... focus on spending, and that's what Obama wants to keep our focus off of. He wants us to talk about the deficit, not spending."
I pointed out that Obama might have scored points with the public because new revenues he sought—even though they wouldn't do much to shrink the deficit—would come from closing unpopular tax "loopholes."
Norquist said he favors that—if tax rates are lowered at the same time.
"(We) want to simplify the code," he said. "(We) want to take a lot of the goodies that politicians have laced into that code ... as long as you reduce tax rates and it's not a hidden tax increase."
Milton Friedman always said taxes don't tell the whole story. What counts is how much of our resources government spends, however it acquires them. The doubling of spending under Bush and Obama hasn't gotten enough attention.
"We need to ask what it is government should do," Norquist said. "But it's going to be knockdown, drag-out. All government overspending creates the constituency for its own perpetuation. ... Weaning people off, that is very difficult."
He's right. When politicians make little cuts in the rate of spending growth, every interest group mobilizes to protect its little piece of the pie. That's why you must cut government like you take off a Band-Aid: quickly and all at once.
It's not hard to balance the budget. On my show, we made enough cuts to create a $237 billion surplus. I cut whole departments, like Education and Commerce. I cut two-thirds of the Defense Department (which still leaves it much bigger than China's). I indexed Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security to inflation, raised the retirement age, and took away benefits for rich people. But I don't have to run for office. Congressmen do, and they can't even manage to cut ridiculous tax breaks like those for ethanol.
Obama predicted disaster if the debt ceiling wasn't raised. Some predict disaster if the ratings agencies downgrade Treasury bonds. I'm dubious. In 1995, President Clinton and Republican Congress couldn't agree on a budget, so the government shut down twice, the second time for three weeks.
Did the economy grind to a halt? No. During the first shutdown, the stock market went up. During the second, it dropped then recovered.
The alarmists screamed that the fight over the debt ceiling would discourage lenders. Wrong. Ten-year Treasury bonds sold for a measly 3 percent interest (versus 15 percent in 1981).
I wasn't worried that Congress would fail to raise the debt ceiling. But I am worried that Congress will keep spending.
John Stossel is host of Stossel on the Fox Business Network. He's the author of Give Me a Break and of Myth, Lies, and Downright Stupidity.
http://reason.com/archives/2011/08/04/balancing-the-budget
I am sorry but Grover Norquist is a huge problem with his anti no tax pledge. We are going to have to raise taxes and if anyone thinks we do not then they are not serious about balancing the budget. There has to be both cuts and increases in revenues.
bigfatjerk
8/4/2011, 09:17 PM
I don't get why democrats hated that thing because it only gives them more strength with the corporations and unions they seem to love that are in their pockets. There's a reason that under Obama the ultra rich class have flourished despite not hiring anyone.
I don't disagree with you because there aren't that many principled people in congress right now. But I don't think it's the corporations fault. It's the politicians fault for being unprincipled and doing things just for money and not for what they should be doing.
bigfatjerk
8/4/2011, 09:22 PM
I am sorry but Grover Norquist is a huge problem with his anti no tax pledge. We are going to have to raise taxes and if anyone thinks we do not then they are not serious about balancing the budget. There has to be both cuts and increases in revenues.
I don't know about raising taxes. I've said this before we need tax reform because our biggest problem in revenues right now is that only half the people pay federal income tax right now and if you count how much some of those are getting from the government in some ways it's way less than half the people. We need to reform spending in the government and reform the way they get money so that everyone pays federal income tax. If you try and get all the money from the rich like the democrats want 2 things happen. a) they really won't get that money because it'll go overseas or into bond markets that don't end up going directly to the government to spend 2) they can only get a total of 1.4 trillion dollars in a year from just the rich and that's if it's a 100% tax. And the dems are talking about a 5% raise on the rich at most. That doesn't bring in much of anything.
If you want to raise revenues you have to get more people to pay taxes in the end. And nothing either party outside of probably the Fair Tax proposal does that.
diverdog
8/4/2011, 09:35 PM
I don't know about raising taxes. I've said this before we need tax reform because our biggest problem in revenues right now is that only half the people pay federal income tax right now and if you count how much some of those are getting from the government in some ways it's way less than half the people. We need to reform spending in the government and reform the way they get money so that everyone pays federal income tax. If you try and get all the money from the rich like the democrats want 2 things happen. a) they really won't get that money because it'll go overseas or into bond markets that don't end up going directly to the government to spend 2) they can only get a total of 1.4 trillion dollars in a year from just the rich and that's if it's a 100% tax. And the dems are talking about a 5% raise on the rich at most. That doesn't bring in much of anything.
If you want to raise revenues you have to get more people to pay taxes in the end. And nothing either party outside of probably the Fair Tax proposal does that.
It really is not so much the tax rates as the loopholes and deductions. I think everyone needs to have some skin in the game and that means everyone should pay income taxes. The rich (by that I mean those making in excess of $500,000 AGI) can afford to go back to the Clinton years.
The problem with solving the budget in congress is that you cannot sit down and deal with it because of all the political ramifications. It would be so much easier to solve if the decision was taken out of congresses hands and by that I mean a balanced budget amendment. That would force discipline.
TitoMorelli
8/4/2011, 10:05 PM
The economy began slowing when the dirty stinking oil companies decided to raise prices dramatically in a weak, but recovering, market. Higher petroleum prices stopped any economic growth. You fail to realize that this Bush economy had suffered through the worst recession since the great depression. Bush left this country in the worst shape since a former repbulican president, Hoover, left it 80 years ago.
1. broken record
One who continually repeats the same statement with little variation, if any.
Derives directly from the (slightly inaccurate) term involving polyvinyl record albums, where such a "broken" record would repeatedly skip back a moment in what being played. (The term was inaccurate - usually such skippage was caused by debris on the disc.)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broken%20record
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc27/dweebius/brokenrecord001.jpg
Curly Bill
8/4/2011, 11:17 PM
over/under is 2
I got the under. :D
Fraggle145
8/5/2011, 01:37 AM
My solution = all incumbents out. I refuse to vote for any incumbents in the next election.
SicEmBaylor
8/5/2011, 02:25 AM
My solution = all incumbents out. I refuse to vote for any incumbents in the next election.
Nothing wrong with this at all. Not at all.
soonerbub
8/5/2011, 05:16 AM
ummm waking up this AM to global panic
Nikkei closed -360
Hong Kong -940
all of Europe down
futures solidly red
The bills are coming due from the spending orgy--and no one can pay. Italy is twisting in the wind
MR2-Sooner86
8/5/2011, 05:42 AM
Seriously, am I the only one kind of wanting to watch the whole thing crash and burn? I know, I'm sick and twisted but it's like a train going over some bad tracks. You know it's going to derail and make the most glorious destruction ever but you're not exactly sure when.
When it does happen, everybody meet up at JohnnyMack's place. Bring lots of guns, beer, and bitches. We'll all Road Warrior this mother ****er.
soonerbub
8/5/2011, 05:47 AM
Have you seen The Road? Not my cup of tea.
Futures have rallied to flat vs fair value I smell a Euro bailout on the way.
We need LEADERS who are willing to speak HARD TRUTH not "professional politicians"
Caboose
8/5/2011, 07:00 AM
I am sorry but Grover Norquist is a huge problem with his anti no tax pledge. We are going to have to raise taxes and if anyone thinks we do not then they are not serious about balancing the budget. There has to be both cuts and increases in revenues.
You continue to repeat this and you continue to be wrong. Amazing how that works. You do not have to raise taxes to balance the budget. It doesn't matter if you bring in 2 trillion dollars in tax revenue or 200 dollars. You spend less than you bring in.
diverdog
8/5/2011, 07:41 AM
You continue to repeat this and you continue to be wrong. Amazing how that works. You do not have to raise taxes to balance the budget. It doesn't matter if you bring in 2 trillion dollars in tax revenue or 200 dollars. You spend less than you bring in.
Gawd you need a course in basic economics/government. The government does not work like a household budget, never has and never will.
Explain to me how you fight 3 wars and not increase the deficit/debt?
Tell me how you would balance the budget this year without destroying the economy and raising taxes?
Explain to me how most Americans buy their homes and cars?
Tell me how most corporations raise capital and expand their business?
tommieharris91
8/5/2011, 07:56 AM
Gawd you need a course in basic economics. The government does not work like a household budget never has and never will.
Explain to me how you fight 3 wars and not increase the deficit/debt?
Better yet, why does US debt still have very low interest rates attached to it? I mean, aren't we about to default? Would that not add a risk premium to our debt? Italy and Greece have this problem with their debt. Why not us?
bigfatjerk
8/5/2011, 07:57 AM
We shouldn't be fighting 3 wars and we shouldn't try and pay for medicare, medicade, social security etc like it's a government program like we do. We should treat all these like what they really should be actual products. It's actually more than 3 wars right now if you count Pakistan. Probably 5 if you count what has been going on with our borders.
soonerbub
8/5/2011, 08:10 AM
Better yet, why does US debt still have very low interest rates attached to it? I mean, aren't we about to default? Would that not add a risk premium to our debt? Italy and Greece have this problem with their debt. Why not us?
Because we're AMERICA!!! **** YEAH
default is for pussies--and people that don't have QE infinity
pphilfran
8/5/2011, 08:11 AM
You continue to repeat this and you continue to be wrong. Amazing how that works. You do not have to raise taxes to balance the budget. It doesn't matter if you bring in 2 trillion dollars in tax revenue or 200 dollars. You spend less than you bring in.
Better get to work...under your plan we need to cut 1 trillion bucks from next years budget...30% of total spending needs to be cut...immediately...
You won't have any unemployment insurance for the millions of people that get laid off because of your balanced budget...
And the states and cities? They won't have any money to fund the riot control police that would likely be needed...
tommieharris91
8/5/2011, 08:17 AM
Because we're AMERICA!!! **** YEAH
default is for pussies--and people that don't have QE infinity
But the QEs never retired any debt...
pphilfran
8/5/2011, 08:20 AM
Oh, my numbers were from here...table 1.1 for revenue and table 3.2 for spending...
Balance till your heart is content...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals
soonerbub
8/5/2011, 08:23 AM
It doesn't matter we'll roll this debt for 1,000 years
...unless the dragon across the street says NO MAS
pphilfran
8/5/2011, 08:23 AM
Better yet, why does US debt still have very low interest rates attached to it? I mean, aren't we about to default? Would that not add a risk premium to our debt? Italy and Greece have this problem with their debt. Why not us?
Because outside of China nobody has any money and is spending like young schoolgirls...
Japan was devastated by the earthquake and tsunami and won't have extra money for a decade...
Europe, they got the PIGGS...
the US, we got the pigs in Congress...
So were are you going to buy bonds? The US just happens to suck less than the alternatives...
Sooner5030
8/5/2011, 08:26 AM
Better yet, why does US debt still have very low interest rates attached to it? I mean, aren't we about to default? Would that not add a risk premium to our debt? Italy and Greece have this problem with their debt. Why not us?
1. When buyers fled the Federal Reserve stepped in and has now become the largest holder of Ts at $1.6 trillion (http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/).
2. Also, investment money has to go somewhere......what else are gonna do with someone elses money? Buy some other country's debt that has even worse problems.
Caboose
8/5/2011, 08:35 AM
Better get to work...under your plan we need to cut 1 trillion bucks from next years budget...30% of total spending needs to be cut...immediately...
You won't have any unemployment insurance for the millions of people that get laid off because of your balanced budget...
And the states and cities? They won't have any money to fund the riot control police that would likely be needed...
Done. It will be a tough lesson, but the people of this nation are going to have to learn what the purpose of the Federal government is sooner or later.
OutlandTrophy
8/5/2011, 08:39 AM
My solution = all incumbents out. I refuse to vote for any incumbents in the next election.
Presidential election?
soonerbub
8/5/2011, 08:56 AM
Well we lost the open gains & then some. Guess I'll head to Wally & get those canned goods after all.
Wow... so we're gonna have a plunge into the weekend? Well, get ready to buy first thing Monday then!
tommieharris91
8/5/2011, 09:00 AM
Wow... so we're gonna have a plunge into the weekend? Well, get ready to buy first thing Monday then!
I would say liquidate for about a month if you can, then go on a securities shopping spree, but I'm not a financial advisor.
pphilfran
8/5/2011, 09:01 AM
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/unemploy1981vs200814-1.jpg
soonerbub
8/5/2011, 09:03 AM
(In)action in Europe means more than 117,000 jobs apparently. The market is trying to force another bailout--we'll see if they get it.
royalfan5
8/5/2011, 09:03 AM
The future is in grains and oilseeds.
tommieharris91
8/5/2011, 09:07 AM
Unemployment is a lagging indicator. The report in September will not be pretty.
diverdog
8/5/2011, 09:35 AM
Unemployment is a lagging indicator. The report in September will not be pretty.
I think you are right.
SanJoaquinSooner
8/5/2011, 09:40 AM
(In)action in Europe means more than 117,000 jobs apparently. The market is trying to force another bailout--we'll see if they get it.
yeah, Michelle Caruso-Cabrera is over in Europe, and reported that German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a key player in any European action, is on vacation, hiking in the Italian mountains, and isn't due to return until Aug 12.
Fraggle145
8/5/2011, 10:30 AM
Presidential election?
If no party puts up somebody that I can feel confident voting for then that spot is going empty. Or write in.
soonerbub
8/5/2011, 10:59 AM
yeah, Michelle Caruso-Cabrera is over in Europe, and reported that German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a key player in any European action, is on vacation, hiking in the Italian mountains, and isn't due to return until Aug 12.
I bet her chunky butt is on a helicopter as we speak
spx -30 dow -220
Oil markets are back up today.
The jobs report wasn't terrible, so that might save the stock market from even more losses.
The jobs report wasn't terrible, so that might save the stock market from even more losses.
So far, no.
I meant in the Obama-job-saving sense. :D
We would have likely suffered even deeper stock market plunges today if it weren't for the oil market and jobs report.
So... we still have job losses under Obama, but he'll tell you that it could have been far worse :rolleyes:
87sooner
8/5/2011, 11:19 AM
Oil markets are back up today.
The jobs report wasn't terrible, so that might save the stock market from even more losses.
clr.....down 26% from recent highs...
almost 20% in past couple days..
soonerbub
8/5/2011, 11:46 AM
WOW the bailout rumor sent the Dow up 300 from the low
+80 on the day
WOW the bailout rumor sent the Dow up 300 from the low
+80 on the day
bailout rumor??? do share details.
bigfatjerk
8/5/2011, 11:52 AM
There's a rumor Spain and Italy are getting bailed out. Even if this happens it's a short term fix for those 2 countries.
soonerbub
8/5/2011, 11:53 AM
Euro central bank agrees to buy Italy & Spain bonds
that was the fear factor
holy **** made it to +130
OutlandTrophy
8/5/2011, 11:56 AM
clr.....down 26% from recent highs...
almost 20% in past couple days..
That's because CLR is a ****ty company filled with ****ty drilling engineers. **** the whole lot of them.
StoopTroup
8/5/2011, 12:48 PM
http://www.euronext.com/trader/summarizedmarket/stocks-2593-EN-FR0000120685.html?selectedMep=1
bigfatjerk
8/5/2011, 12:59 PM
Yesterday in the 4% fall, the Dollar went up sharply against everything else. Now with the Euro bailout news the Dollar is going down sharply. That may not be good news for the US.
cleller
8/5/2011, 02:32 PM
That's because CLR is a ****ty company filled with ****ty drilling engineers. **** the whole lot of them.
I really knew nothing about this company, but this got my curiosity up. A company that has now lost about a third of its value in a few days made me think it might be a baby/bathwater situation.
The latest info I found on it showed a P/E of 113 and EPS of -0.24. Their website says they were named the #1 ranked public company by Standard and Poor's. It must have been growing awful fast to command the share prices it had been fetching all year.
Once things settle down, I'd be interested in oil/energy again, but something less volatile.
These threads remind me of the OMG GLOBAL WARMING IS SUCH A HOAX!!! threads during a winter cold snap, or the OMG GAS IS SPIRALING OUT OF CONTROL WE'RE ALL GONNA GO BROKE DRIVING TO WORK!!! threads...
sheepdogs
8/5/2011, 04:06 PM
Yesterday in the 4% fall, the Dollar went up sharply against everything else. Now with the Euro bailout news the Dollar is going down sharply. That may not be good news for the US.
The dollar has been weakening for a long period of time and this has helped to fuel the rally as opposed to stifling it. A cheaper dollar generally means our products are more affordable to foreigners, so for the foreign nations purchasing 2/3 of Apple's products it is beneficial to them and Apple as well, and the same holds true for other U.S. multinational corporations.
pphilfran
8/5/2011, 04:18 PM
The dollar has been weakening for a long period of time and this has helped to fuel the rally as opposed to stifling it. A cheaper dollar generally means our products are more affordable to foreigners, so for the foreign nations purchasing 2/3 of Apple's products it is beneficial to them and Apple as well, and the same holds true for other U.S. multinational corporations.
Though it is a balancing act...as the dollar declines and exports become cheaper...imports, including crude, become more expensive...you wanna keep it cheap...but not too cheap...
diverdog
8/5/2011, 05:34 PM
I meant in the Obama-job-saving sense. :D
We would have likely suffered even deeper stock market plunges today if it weren't for the oil market and jobs report.
So... we still have job losses under Obama, but he'll tell you that it could have been far worse :rolleyes:
We have not created very many jobs in the past ten years. We have some really big problems with workers needing to be retrained.
sheepdogs
8/5/2011, 05:46 PM
Though it is a balancing act...as the dollar declines and exports become cheaper...imports, including crude, become more expensive...you wanna keep it cheap...but not too cheap...
Domestic manufacturers and service companies like the weaker dollar because it redirects foreign purchases towards them so it helps to increase end user demand thus helping their net sales and "maybe" this would motivate them to hire more people. Also, foreign manufacturers usually have to bite the bullet and not raise prices in dollar terms for fear of losing market share. Case in point, if you look how much the Japanese Yen has appreciated versus the dollar, but the price of Hondas and Toyotas and so on have not budged at all. Yes, it does make dollar based commodities higher but this benefits U.S. producers of such items and perhaps helps to curtail the consumption of oil which is a good thing and helps to make other energy sources, which we are abundant in like coal, natural gas and oil derived from shale more appealing.
hawaii 5-0
8/5/2011, 05:52 PM
People........don't worry !!
With all the tax breaks and loopholes the Republicans have been defending these past two years, the corporations and fat cats with have plenty of jobs for everyone.
Wasn't that the excuse?
5-0
Trump/ Strap 2012
sheepdogs
8/5/2011, 05:55 PM
People........don't worry !!
With all the tax breaks and loopholes the Republicans have been defending these past two years, the corporations and fat cats with have plenty of jobs for everyone.
Wasn't that the excuse?
5-0
Trump/ Strap 2012
The more taxes raised the larger the waste created.
hawaii 5-0
8/5/2011, 05:58 PM
The more taxes raised the larger the waste created.
I was referring to jobs.
It we cut taxes and give loopholes to the wealthy they'll create more jobs.
They got their breaks. Now, where's the jobs?
5-0
Trump/ Sistah 2012
soonercruiser
8/5/2011, 05:58 PM
Please remember....
This is the second Summer of Recovery!
:rolleyes:
sheepdogs
8/5/2011, 06:10 PM
I was referring to jobs.
It we cut taxes and give loopholes to the wealthy they'll create more jobs.
They got their breaks. Now, where's the jobs?
5-0
Trump/ Sistah 2012
The breaks you are referring to were not enacted after the large downfall in the economy but before ,thus something else besides "Dead Sea level interest rates" are needed to provide a catalyst for growth creating jobs.
soonercruiser
8/5/2011, 06:21 PM
Am I missing something?
I heard a report today that part of the positive market move was due to Germany agreeing to guarantee Italy's debt?
Will the German's be able to bail out all the Euro? :eek:
That would probably wipe out their GDP!
cccasooner2
8/5/2011, 06:50 PM
Am I missing something?
I heard a report today that part of the positive market move was due to Germany agreeing to guarantee Italy's debt?
Will the German's be able to bail out all the Euro? :eek:
That would probably wipe out their GDP!
Not to worry, we should be able to handle it. I hear California is already putting money away for just that purpose.
diverdog
8/5/2011, 06:56 PM
The breaks you are referring to were not enacted after the large downfall in the economy but before ,thus something else besides "Dead Sea level interest rates" are needed to provide a catalyst for growth creating jobs.
I do not think either party knows what to do. We have let Wall Street and unfavorable foreign trade agreements kill us.
StoopTroup
8/5/2011, 09:30 PM
Germany is like the US version of Texas?
http://www.unibrowclub.com/unibrow_club_images/small_button_george_w_bush_monobrow001.jpg
http://www.biography4u.com/image-files/young%20Hitler.jpg
royalfan5
8/5/2011, 09:38 PM
Germany is like the US version of Texas?
http://www.unibrowclub.com/unibrow_club_images/small_button_george_w_bush_monobrow001.jpg
http://www.biography4u.com/image-files/young%20Hitler.jpg
I think the Germans are better liked as a whole though. Nobody has left the EU for the Big 10.
StoopTroup
8/5/2011, 09:46 PM
I think the Germans are better liked as a whole though. Nobody has left the EU for the Big 10.
LMAO Both have their own Sports Network? :D
pphilfran
8/8/2011, 12:44 PM
If the Dow holds 11,000....
87sooner
8/8/2011, 12:52 PM
If the Dow holds 11,000....
might hold today...
but i think 10800 will be hit before we get any kind of bounce...
Bourbon St Sooner
8/8/2011, 01:02 PM
If the Dow holds 11,000....
I guess not.
bigfatjerk
8/8/2011, 01:26 PM
The Dow, S&P, and NASDAQ are all down about 5-7%
Gold is up 4%
pphilfran
8/8/2011, 01:28 PM
If the Dow holds 2000.....
87sooner
8/8/2011, 03:16 PM
might hold today...
but i think 10800 will be hit before we get any kind of bounce...
dow close at the day low....10809.......
time for a bounce;)
delhalew
8/8/2011, 03:20 PM
I notice the tea party has been blamed, so everything will be ok now...right?
StoopTroup
8/8/2011, 03:25 PM
Considering it's their fault and elections are a ways off....it probably hard to say.
OklahomaTuba
8/8/2011, 03:27 PM
Considering it's their fault and elections are a ways off....it probably hard to say.I thought it was the Tsunami's fault? Or wait, wasn't it the Arab Spring?
Man, so many people to blame, cept the ones actually in power!!!
sheepdogs
8/8/2011, 03:32 PM
dow close at the day low....10809.......
time for a bounce;)
You and your Mexican jumping beans.
delhalew
8/8/2011, 03:44 PM
Considering it's their fault and elections are a ways off....it probably hard to say.
You'll never convince me that you are that foolish.
Gandalf_The_Grey
8/8/2011, 04:10 PM
I like how you can literally title a thread absolutely anything and then Type "HOPE AND CHANGE LOLOLOLOL!!!!" It might be local girl abducted "HOPE AND CHANGE LOLOLOLOL!!! It makes your arguments look asinine and childish, you guys literally want Obama to fail so you can say I told you so. There used to be people on this board who did the same thing with Bush. The problem with the country is that we can't put political ideology above what is good for the country. You want to know a little secret on the debt ceiling, the parts both parties were fighting for should be taken out. Raise taxes and cut the Democrats spending programs and everyone wins....
Curly Bill
8/8/2011, 06:21 PM
You'll never convince me that you are that foolish.
You haven't been paying much attention lately. ;)
soonercruiser
8/8/2011, 06:47 PM
I thought it was the Tsunami's fault? Or wait, wasn't it the Arab Spring?
Man, so many people to blame, cept the ones actually in power!!!
Obama is obviuosly angry with GOD!
:rolleyes:
SO MUCH BLAME TO SPREAD; SO LITTLE TV TIME!
:D
SoonerNate
8/8/2011, 07:55 PM
I like how you can literally title a thread absolutely anything and then Type "HOPE AND CHANGE LOLOLOLOL!!!!" It might be local girl abducted "HOPE AND CHANGE LOLOLOLOL!!! It makes your arguments look asinine and childish, you guys literally want Obama to fail so you can say I told you so. There used to be people on this board who did the same thing with Bush. The problem with the country is that we can't put political ideology above what is good for the country. You want to know a little secret on the debt ceiling, the parts both parties were fighting for should be taken out. Raise taxes and cut the Democrats spending programs and everyone wins....
LOL @ you for continuing to defend this failure. I guess you didn't lose a **** load of $ today. Let's give him a pass after all he's the first black president.
Gandalf_The_Grey
8/9/2011, 03:38 AM
No, if you pay attention, I am a HUGE fan of absolutely no one in congress or the presidency. There is some I can stand more than others. But to sit around and act like Obama is the only one to blame is asinine and childish. We as a voting bloc have come to accept abject failure out of our politicians. Would you go to the same doctor if he keeps making you worse. We have chosen to re-elect the same dumbass Republicans and Democrats OVER and OVER again. I will tell you my plan, call the boys back from Afghanistan and let them take the Congress jobs. I know I trust a 22 year old kid who has served 4 tours of duty over Boehner, Pelosi, Bachman, Reid, Palin, or Obama....
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