View Full Version : Dow Jone Avg Down - even with news of possible Debt Deal
soonercruiser
8/1/2011, 12:46 PM
Dow Jones average down more than 90 points after US manufacturing slows in July
NEW YORK, N.Y. - The debt deal rally lasted all of 30 minutes.
After gaining 139 points minutes after the market opened Monday, the Dow Jones industrial average sharply reversed course, shedding all of those gains after a key manufacturing index tumbled in July.
The Dow was down as many as 145 points after the Institute of Supply Management said its manufacturing index was barely above the 50 point figure that indicates growth. Economists, who believed the U.S. economy would strengthen in the second half of the year, had been expecting a much higher reading.
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/article/37213--dow-jones-average-gives-up-early-rally-on-debt-deal-after-us-manufacturing-slows-in-july
Dow Jones average down more than 90 points after US manufacturing slows in July
NEW YORK, N.Y. - The debt deal rally lasted all of 30 minutes.
After gaining 139 points minutes after the market opened Monday, the Dow Jones industrial average sharply reversed course, shedding all of those gains after a key manufacturing index tumbled in July.
The Dow was down as many as 145 points after the Institute of Supply Management said its manufacturing index was barely above the 50 point figure that indicates growth. Economists, who believed the U.S. economy would strengthen in the second half of the year, had been expecting a much higher reading.
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/article/37213--dow-jones-average-gives-up-early-rally-on-debt-deal-after-us-manufacturing-slows-in-july
Obama needs to tap into the strategic petroleum reserve again.
pphilfran
8/1/2011, 12:54 PM
My guess is that auto sales will be bad...released tomorrow...sometimes they start posting early on their spreadsheet so you can see some individual make data...nothing posted currently...
Last month they were happy about sales being up 7% Y on Y...while sales had been declining all year...
I am guessing flat or down slightly from last July's overall sales of about a million...
royalfan5
8/1/2011, 01:02 PM
Of course the dollar is sharply stronger and grains are up across the board.
The fact that a deal would be done prior to Aug 2nd must have already been priced in, which I suspected. Had no deal been brokered then expectations would have been upset and you would have seen a large drop.
OklahomaTuba
8/1/2011, 01:09 PM
More good news....
Obama's Dempression continues as the double dip is here, according fox news, er, MSNBC.....
10 signs the double-dip recession has begun
Friday's news on GDP shows the double dip has arrived — an expansion of only 1.3 percent and consumer spending up 0.1 percent in the second quarter. Astonishingly low by any account. The debt ceiling trouble and lack of a longer term resolution to the deficit will make it worse.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43946055/ns/business-us_business/
OklahomaTuba
8/1/2011, 01:13 PM
The fact that a deal would be done prior to Aug 2nd must have already been priced in, which I suspected. Had no deal been brokered then expectations would have been upset and you would have seen a large drop.But don't you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it first?
bigfatjerk
8/1/2011, 01:15 PM
The DOW isn't going to go up because Washington agrees on something unless that agreement happens to be to get out of trying to micromanage the economy.
But don't you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it first?
By posting today you answered my question from another thread - Tuba has not been banned. :)
SanJoaquinSooner
8/1/2011, 01:18 PM
another factor is that with budget cuts... less gov't spending than was otherwise anticipated. Less defense contractor activity. Fewer food stamps used at Safeway and Walmart, etc. Less govt spending = less demand.
Cramer called it before the opening bell: a sucker rally followed by a sell-off.
Said put your money with companies with strong overseas revenue, e.g., Apple and Google.
Which is a better investment over a ten year period: A ten-year U.S. treasury bill paying 2.8% interest or Apple selling at 13 times earnings?
pphilfran
8/1/2011, 01:25 PM
another factor is that with budget cuts... less gov't spending than was otherwise anticipated. Less defense contractor activity. Fewer food stamps used at Safeway and Walmart, etc. Less govt spending = less demand.
Cramer called it before the opening bell: a sucker rally followed by a sell-off.
Said put your money with companies with strong overseas revenue, e.g., Apple and Google.
Which is a better investment over a ten year period: A ten-year U.S. treasury bill paying 2.8% interest or Apple selling at 13 times earnings?
Future climbing interest rates won't do that 10 year bond much good...
TUSooner
8/1/2011, 01:27 PM
Obama needs to tap into the strategic popularity reserve again.
Fixed.
SanJoaquinSooner
8/1/2011, 01:27 PM
Future climbing interest rates won't do that 10 year bond much good...
Correct. Stocks will be better position during rising interest rates.
OklahomaTuba
8/1/2011, 01:29 PM
Fewer food stamps used at Safeway and Walmart, etc. Less govt spending = less demand.
Fewer people using food stamps would be a good thing, not a bad thing.
SanJoaquinSooner
8/1/2011, 01:32 PM
Health care/Senior care stocks getting hammered. Fear over fact.
pphilfran
8/1/2011, 01:32 PM
Correct. Stocks will be better position during rising interest rates.
Rising interest rates don't help stocks either...especially after the third hike...
"Don't fight the Fed."
OutlandTrophy
8/1/2011, 01:32 PM
this bill is a POS and did nothing but kick the can down the road a little farther.
SanJoaquinSooner
8/1/2011, 01:34 PM
Fewer people using food stamps would be a good thing, not a bad thing. yes, of course. The point being, businesses who have foodstamp traffic get their stock prices hammered today.
cccasooner2
8/1/2011, 01:40 PM
Too many smiling faces from the Lord and Lady Dooshbags to feel any comfort. When we feel depressed, we can always look at the Greeks to boost our self esteem.
Lawton4Life
8/1/2011, 01:41 PM
I see a lot of kick the can statements around this...did anyone think that anything besides that would actually happen?
cccasooner2
8/1/2011, 01:42 PM
yes, of course. The point being, businesses who have foodstamp traffic get their stock prices hammered today.
Like the health care REITs when the medicare reimbursement cuts were announced. :D
SanJoaquinSooner
8/1/2011, 01:46 PM
Rising interest rates don't help stocks either...especially after the third hike...
"Don't fight the Fed."
gotta be selective, no doubt. Interest sensitive stocks such as financials are in terrible position as well as companies in debt or need to borrow.
But cash-rich companies with a gazillion dollars sitting on the sideline, and have overseas customers, should be in good position.
pphilfran
8/1/2011, 01:56 PM
gotta be selective, no doubt. Interest sensitive stocks such as financials are in terrible position as well as companies in debt or need to borrow.
But cash-rich companies with a gazillion dollars sitting on the sideline, and have overseas customers, should be in good position.
I agree...multi nationals can benefit from a weaker dollar...
Sooner_Tuf
8/1/2011, 02:11 PM
We need a cash for clunkers program to trade in our politicians.
The Profit
8/1/2011, 02:31 PM
The economy was beginning to show real recovery in the spring before the dirty stinking oil companies decided to dramatically raise prices for no other reason than to gouge consumers.
Sooner5030
8/1/2011, 02:34 PM
The economy was beginning to show real recovery in the spring before the dirty stinking oil companies decided to dramatically raise prices for no other reason than to gouge consumers.
If it's so easy then put your own capital at risk and start your own E&P business. If not then STFU and pay up.
87sooner
8/1/2011, 02:35 PM
The economy was beginning to show real recovery in the spring before the dirty stinking oil companies decided to dramatically raise prices for no other reason than to gouge consumers.
the oil companies raised gas prices for no other reason than oil prices were bid up on world markets...
but i do agree....gas prices killed any chance at recovery....just like they put the final nail in the coffin back in 2008 when this mess started.....
pphilfran
8/1/2011, 02:37 PM
The economy was beginning to show real recovery in the spring before the dirty stinking oil companies decided to dramatically raise prices for no other reason than to gouge consumers.
Profit...focus on your goal...
87sooner
8/1/2011, 02:39 PM
We need a cash for clunkers program to trade in our politicians.
the first item cut from future budgets is politician pay/benefits and the second should be defunding every politician's pension...
make it a $40k/year job...with no retirement...
OutlandTrophy
8/1/2011, 02:39 PM
the oil companies raised the price of what, exactly?
87sooner
8/1/2011, 02:40 PM
got a closing rally here...
dow almost green.
The Profit
8/1/2011, 02:41 PM
the oil companies raised the price of what, exactly?
If you have to ask, you simply will not understand.
tommieharris91
8/1/2011, 02:41 PM
The economy was beginning to show real recovery in the spring before the dirty stinking oil companies decided to dramatically raise prices for no other reason than to gouge consumers.
I'm going with the stimulus running out. The oil price shock still probably has something to do with it, but not what you are making it out to be.
OutlandTrophy
8/1/2011, 02:42 PM
I understand that oil companies are price takers, not price makers. It's a very simple concept. The market determines what their product is worth. Do you not remember the late 90s?
3rdgensooner
8/1/2011, 02:43 PM
At least there's a rare consensus on something.... (http://people-press.org/2011/08/01/public-sees-budget-negotiations-as-%E2%80%9Cridiculous%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cdisgusting%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cstupid/)
From liberal Democrats to Tea Party Republicans, there is broad public consensus that the budget negotiations of recent weeks can be summed up in words such as ridiculous, disgusting, stupid, and frustrating. Nationwide, 72% describe the recent negotiations in negative terms such as these; while very few offer a positive (2%), or even neutral (11%), assessment. Other frequently used terms include terrible, disappointing, childish, and joke.
pphilfran
8/1/2011, 02:44 PM
At least there's a rare consensus on something.... (http://people-press.org/2011/08/01/public-sees-budget-negotiations-as-%E2%80%9Cridiculous%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cdisgusting%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cstupid/)
They missed SNAFU...
Turd_Ferguson
8/1/2011, 02:46 PM
If you have to ask, you simply will not understand.If you can't answer then...hell I got nothn
NormanPride
8/1/2011, 02:49 PM
It is wrong to expect the people of our congress to suddenly have to work like a proper governing body so quickly. They have been an inefficient mass of pork barreling fools for so long that when something comes up that requires their concentrated and efficient effort as a unified voice of the people they can do nothing else but fail.
The other way to look at it is this: we have put people in power that are good at entertaining us and spending others' money to bring government 'gifts' to the populace, but are incredibly ill-qualified to make fiscal decisions based on a long term view of a balanced and agile economy. You wouldn't suddenly ask a welder to do the accounting, would you?
3rdgensooner
8/1/2011, 02:51 PM
You wouldn't suddenly ask a welder to do the accounting, would you?
Is he hawt?
NormanPride
8/1/2011, 02:52 PM
For the sake of accuracy to the analogy, he is a chimpanzee.
OutlandTrophy
8/1/2011, 02:53 PM
does he have a nice, big, red ***?
NormanPride
8/1/2011, 02:54 PM
Those are baboons, I believe.
OutlandTrophy
8/1/2011, 02:56 PM
I believe I can fly...
NormanPride
8/1/2011, 02:58 PM
Then let me tell you something. The power of belief can help you realize any dream.
87sooner
8/1/2011, 03:01 PM
the welder prolly has a better grasp of what it takes to earn a dollar.....and how that dollar should be spent...
that's why we're in such a mess...
millionaire politician lawyers spending money that benefits their friends and those who donate money to keep them in power.....
give me a govt filled with hard working common folks over the crooks we have now...
NormanPride
8/1/2011, 03:05 PM
The welder may understand the value of said dollar, but would be unable to articulate said value due to a lack of training and experience.
OutlandTrophy
8/1/2011, 03:08 PM
why do you hate welders?
pphilfran
8/1/2011, 03:12 PM
The welder may understand the value of said dollar, but would be unable to articulate said value due to a lack of training and experience.
Articulate?
Pelosi
"I’m, I’m, I’m investing in something I believe in. I believe in natural gas as a clean, cheap alternative to fossil fuels. … These investments in wind, in solar and biofuels and focus on natural gas, these are the real alternatives."
“We’re not trying to give incentives to drill, we’re giving incentives to invest in renewables and natural gas that will take us where we need to go.”
Obama
"It is wonderful to be back in Oregon," Obama said. "Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit, but my staff would not justify it."
Bourbon St Sooner
8/1/2011, 03:18 PM
If you have to ask, you simply will not understand.
If I have to ask you, I definitely will not understand.
GKeeper316
8/1/2011, 03:23 PM
but as long as the oil companies and perscription drug companies are recording record profits, its all good right?
yay business with no moral or ethical center!!!
pphilfran
8/1/2011, 03:29 PM
but as long as the oil companies and perscription drug companies are recording record profits, its all good right?
yay business with no moral or ethical center!!!
:D
cccasooner2
8/1/2011, 03:35 PM
but as long as the oil companies and perscription drug companies are recording record profits, its all good right?
yay business with no moral or ethical center!!!
A poorly written mission statement no doubt.
Probably the result of a typo though (good grunt help is so hard to find).
sappstuf
8/1/2011, 03:43 PM
More good news....
Obama's Dempression continues as the double dip is here, according fox news, er, MSNBC.....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43946055/ns/business-us_business/
It is most certainly on the way, with the first quarter GDP growth at .4%...
But I blame Bush. After all his middle initial is W and a W looks like a double dip recession...
As smart as Obama is, how could he fight against that?
pphilfran
8/1/2011, 03:45 PM
But I blame Bush. After all his middle initial is W and a W looks like a double dip recession...
Excellent!
sappstuf
8/1/2011, 03:48 PM
I didn't read all of this thread. Did the manufacturing numbers have something to do with it?
The Institute for Supply Management said on Monday its index of national factory activity fell to 50.9, the lowest level since July 2009, from 55.3 in June.
Economists had expected a reading of 54.9. A reading below 50 indicates contraction in manufacturing. …
“These are the types of numbers that are consistent with what we saw with the GDP numbers,” said Keith Hembre, chief economist at Nuveen Asset Management in Minneapolis.
but as long as the oil companies and perscription drug companies are recording record profits, its all good right?
yay business with no moral or ethical center!!!
Good by me!!!
Yay!!!!
OklahomaTuba
8/1/2011, 04:00 PM
It is most certainly on the way, with the first quarter GDP growth at .4%...
Wonder what the GDP would be like if you take out everything the donks have juiced the government with??
Go back to pre-2008 government spending levels and were in great depression territory I suspect.
Hope and Change!
The Profit
8/1/2011, 04:01 PM
Even the ultra right-wing wacko newspaper, The Daily Oklahoman, ran a story on page 4 yesterday (Sunday) that clearly showed bush jr. was responsible for 3/4 of the national debt over the last 10 years. According to the story, Obama was responsible for $800 billion (not chump change by any means) and bush jr was responsible for $4 billion from 2 wars while providing tax cuts for the very wealthy.
Even the ultra right-wing wacko newspaper, The Daily Oklahoman, ran a story on page 4 yesterday (Sunday) that clearly showed bush jr. was responsible for 3/4 of the national debt over the last 10 years. According to the story, Obama was responsible for $800 billion (not chump change by any means) and bush jr was responsible for $4 billion from 2 wars while providing tax cuts for the very wealthy.
$4 billion doesn't look near as big as $800 billion. Did the article mention the cost of the tax cuts that everyone received?
soonercruiser
8/1/2011, 04:56 PM
the welder prolly has a better grasp of what it takes to earn a dollar.....and how that dollar should be spent...
that's why we're in such a mess...
millionaire politician lawyers spending money that benefits their friends and those who donate money to keep them in power.....
give me a govt filled with hard working common folks over the crooks we have now...
BINGO!
But, then there'd be more Teabaggers!
:D
cccasooner2
8/1/2011, 05:00 PM
$4 billion doesn't look near as big as $800 billion. Did the article mention the cost of the tax cuts that everyone received?
I think he meant $4 trillion, but who's counting?
soonercruiser
8/1/2011, 05:01 PM
Even the ultra right-wing wacko newspaper, The Daily Oklahoman, ran a story on page 4 yesterday (Sunday) that clearly showed bush jr. was responsible for 3/4 of the national debt over the last 10 years. According to the story, Obama was responsible for $800 billion (not chump change by any means) and bush jr was responsible for $4 billion from 2 wars while providing tax cuts for the very wealthy.
Profit, unknown to you, the RW wacko Oklahoman allows, and prints Op-Eds and Editorials from authors other than its own staff.
And, isn't it a wonder that the Editorial and Opinion Editor is a big lib?
Look at the author of the article.
I think he meant $4 trillion, but who's counting?
I know, but when he leaves out trillions in taxes for everyone you can't be too sure.
87sooner
8/2/2011, 02:35 PM
good thing the debt crisis is behind us and the market can now go up....errrrrrrrr.....i mean crashhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
soonercruiser
8/2/2011, 03:10 PM
Yup!
DOW DOWn for 8 straight days!
Bourbon St Sooner
8/2/2011, 03:22 PM
Double dip is us.
Can't wait for that jobs report Friday.
royalfan5
8/2/2011, 03:57 PM
Corn Locked limit higher today, wheat was up 40 and beans almost 20.
tommieharris91
8/2/2011, 04:00 PM
Corn Locked limit higher today, wheat was up 40 and beans almost 20.
That makes no sense. Deflation is coming back. Oil fell like 3% today too.
Sooner5030
8/2/2011, 04:02 PM
gold up 2.4%
in one day. very rare
royalfan5
8/2/2011, 05:29 PM
That makes no sense. Deflation is coming back. Oil fell like 3% today too.
It does when you consider that heat is very bad during pollenation and podfill.
87sooner
8/2/2011, 05:49 PM
hope corn goes to $10...
won't have any to sell...but at least it'll make my insurance check bigger...
royalfan5
8/2/2011, 05:52 PM
hope corn goes to $10...
won't have any to sell...but at least it'll make my insurance check bigger...
I don't think we have the demand to get there with a big Russia and Ukraine crop.
87sooner
8/2/2011, 06:00 PM
I don't think we have the demand to get there with a big Russia and Ukraine crop.
damn....
any predictions?
maybe that bodes well for us.....they had drought last year....now a big crop..
royalfan5
8/2/2011, 06:11 PM
damn....
any predictions?
maybe that bodes well for us.....they had drought last year....now a big crop..
We will see what tomorrow brings. It's supposed to cool down and rain in areas where it can still do some good. If outside markets continue to get crushed, I think you start seeing people really question the demand numbers that are out there. My sense is that breaking past the mid-7's will be a challenge.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.1 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.