Boren says "No"

[soonerprices]

The Joke had an article today that says Boren, along with other Big 12 presidents, wants Beebe to ban prep sports from being played on the Texas network. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't didn't the NCAA already do this?

[GrapevineSooner]

No such NCAA bylaw exists. Probably because nobody thought an individual school would start up their own network like this and propose televising high school football.

[Joe]

We can only hope Dodd says a big FU and starts independent talks with ESPN. PAC 16, SEC, either one would be better than having to put up with Texas and their selfish, arrogant, elitist ways.

[Flagstaffsooner]

QVC>LHN :mad: :texan:

:D

[Flagstaffsooner]

BTW, I've seen gnats with bigger gonads than Beebe.

[GameWarden]

We can only hope Dodd says a big FU and starts independent talks with ESPN. PAC 16, SEC, either one would be better than having to put up with Texas and their selfish, arrogant, elitist ways.

Jumping to another conference will not fix the problem. If OU jumps to conference that doesn't play in Texas it will only give UT further advantage there.
If there is no rule against UT televising games of the high school athletes they are recruiting, then the NCAA should make one ASAP. NCAA can pretty much make the rules say whatever they want. The NCAA runs college football. Not sure how much say Mack Brown has, but it looks like it may be considerable.:D

[SoonerMom2]

How did OU recruit all those Texas players when there was the Southwest Conference? One game is all you need -- OU/TX and the rest make no difference. Even then TX players are going to continue to come to OU because some players have no desire to go to school at UT and would love to spotlighted in the SEC if we went there.

All you have to do if you are a football player is see how well the Sooners do in the NFL versus the Longhorns and if you are not tied to UT through your family, most likely you will come here if you want an NFL career.

Think it is hilarious that Boren dropped the bombshell in a conference call. After TX and Beebe pulled this, who knows what Boren is going to do because he cannot trust them.

[picasso]

Traber's mantra yesterday on the radio was more or less that the OU administration was livid and if it wasn't for OU, Texas would walk all over what's left of the conference.

[Chuck Bao]

David Boren is a very smart man. He knows when to score one against UT. In my opinion, the broadcast of high school games on LHN was never really a flyable idea. If it wasn't against NCAA rules, a new rule would have been added. I think that A&M and OU waited on this issue to embarrass UT and Beebe, figuratively speaking scoring a touchdown instead of an early field goal.

OU and A&M have leveraged this, in my opinion, to gain full support from all of the other institutions. They will soon move on to the issue of LHN network getting exclusive rights to 1-2 conference games via ESPN. That is the much larger and tougher battle and I would guess that they have already won that one too!

I still honestly believe all of the talk about moving to other conferences is just getting more leverage and nobody really wants to move.

[Lott's Bandana]

Traber's mantra yesterday on the radio was more or less that the OU administration was livid and if it wasn't for OU, Texas would walk all over what's left of the conference.


He also stated that lil' brother is tied at the hip to OU and would never be left behind, because somehow that's what Askins implied when he spoke with her recently and because the OK legislature is full of pokes.

[KantoSooner]

God, it IS full of pokes, isn't it? Whenever I am working with state gov it's amazing to me the number of pokes who inhabit the cubicles of our institutions.
It's eerie, like halloween every day.
Gives me the willies.

[Herr Scholz]

All you have to do if you are a football player is see how well the Sooners do in the NFL versus the Longhorns and if you are not tied to UT through your family, most likely you will come here if you want an NFL career.

UT currently has 50 NFL players to OU's 40. Both schools put plenty of guys in the league.

As far as the prep games on the LHN, I imagine that will be put on hold until the conference and the NCAA can put some rules in place over that due to it being a brand new concept. I find it an interesting dynamic between ESPN and the Big XII though. ESPN pretty much saved the conference with that tv contract last year. And if the NCAA says it's OK, then what? ESPN's trying to recoup that $300M they guaranteed us. They were planning on broadcasting 18 prep games this Fall.

The Aggies are just mad because Byrne said a single school network couldn't possibly work and even turned down Dodds when he proposed UT and A&M do one together. He's trying to save face on this one. He's the opposite of proactive and forward thinking.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I'm not sure what stroke texass has with the NCAA, but I'm pretty sure ESPN has some stroke. The fact that tosu's players were allowed to play in the SB last year was all the mother ship's doing.

[Sooner Cal]

A network is nothing without content. That's the problem. UT and OU lack the content to generate a pay tv channel.

UT's stupidity was proven when a UT employee in charge of the network started mentioning recruits by name. A clear violation of NCAA rules and the reason it was all brought to the forefront. I doubt that UT's lawyers signed off on that, much less their compliance department.

A Big XII network might make it, but not a school linked network.

Unfortunately, no one is discussing how to reduce costs of collegiate athletics. It is clear tht we have too many teams in D1 football. It's clear that we are paying coaches too much. OU has enough success to have fans willing to pay higher face value for tickets and make donations as well just to buy the tickets. Most schools can't. Thus we have revenue sharing. But with costs going up, the more successful programs have to subsidize the others. They won't be able to do that forever. I think college sports has reached it's pinnacle, just like other businesses, it can't grow forever. Eventually, it will have to collapse to a more realistic scale.

[Sooner_Tuf]

I didn't see it coming but the LHN is making Texas look like they are looking for an unfair advantage and saying well technically ESPN will be deciding the programing.

The contract calls for one football game and eight basketball games a year to be on the LHN. So basically Texas will get ten million or so a year for those games.

Texas better do something to counter act where public opinion is headed. They are awfully close to being known as dooshbag U.

[Soonerfan88]

I truly don't understand how Dodds & UT can say with a straight face they have nothing to do with the network. It's already been reported that they retain full hiring/firing rights. The studios are on UT property and the UT registered logo is all over the network. ESPN has contractually agreed to promote UT and broadcast UT content exclusively on this channel. That makes anyone working for this channel a legal representative of UT, IMO. And there are several NCAA rules that prohibit university representative/booster interaction with or promotion of potential recruits.

[Herr Scholz]

UT's stupidity was proven when a UT employee in charge of the network started mentioning recruits by name.
UT's stupid for accepting $15M a year for 20 years? For 3rd tier broadcasting rights?

The ESPN guy mentioned Connor Brewer, not UT. ESPN is trying to recoup the $300M they owe us. They're trying to make a profit on this thing.

[Herr Scholz]

The studios are on UT property...
No. They're right off campus. Very near though.


That makes anyone working for this channel a legal representative of UT, IMO. And there are several NCAA rules that prohibit university representative/booster interaction with or promotion of potential recruits.
No. ESPN purchased our 3rd tier broadcasting rights. They are not legal reps of the university.

[kevpks]

No. ESPN purchased our 3rd tier broadcasting rights. They are not legal reps of the university.

Paraphrase of Charles Davis today: The NCAA has the power to make a ham sandwich a representative of a school's athletic interests if they really want to.

[Herr Scholz]

I think ESPN has a bit more power than a ham sandwich.

[SoonerMarkVA]

Traber's mantra yesterday on the radio was more or less that the OU administration was livid and if it wasn't for OU, Texas would walk all over what's left of the conference.

I'd like to believe that's true. If Boren's finally speaking out, then maybe it is.

[AlbqSooner]

How did OU recruit all those Texas players when there was the Southwest Conference?

"OU has given more Texas football players the chance to wear a National Championship Ring than all the texas schools combined."
Barry Switzer

[Herr Scholz]

Is Boren the AD or is Joe C? Because it seems like Boren is in the news talking about sports way more often than academia.

[Soonerfan88]

The Longhorn Network is a UT franchise purchased by ESPN, just like the guy down the street who owns the McDonalds. As a franchisee, a certain amount is contractually owed to the franchiser, just like ESPN owes UT $15M/year. However, the franchisee owns/rents the property and makes all staff/menu decisions just like UT claims ESPN makes all staff and content decisions. (Yes, a franchisee can pick and choose which products to sell and which pricing promotions to follow. That's why is always says 'may not be available at all locations' in small print.)

However, the franchisee also agrees by signing the contract that they will abide by the same rules as all other corporations. If guy down the street decides to blatantly rip off the product/advertising of the Sonic across the street, the franchisee is breaking the rules. McDonalds will be a co-defendant of the suit and share the punishment. They can pull the franchise, sever all ties and hope to be dropped from the suit. If Sonic can prove that the guy down the street informed McDonalds and HQ said 'go for it' then the judge will probably fine them no matter what.

So, ESPN is a representative/booster of UT and therefore has to abide by NCAA rules. If ESPN breaks those rules, UT either has to prove they didn't know it was breaking the rules and sever all contact (certainly not possible now) or join in the punishment just like every other university.

[Herr Scholz]

Creative but no. They purchased broadcasting rights. ESPN is not a franchisee/booster/legal rep of UT. Sorry.

ESPN and Fox Sports would both be boosters of OU by your logic.

[picasso]

Is Boren the AD or is Joe C? Because it seems like Boren is in the news talking about sports way more often than academia.

You don't read enough. Boren doesn't have an athletic bone in his body.

[Herr Scholz]

The times I've read about Boren have included the Oregon football game, Sherrie Coale's contract (which he lied about UT offering her and never retracted), the Longhorn network, etc. Seems to me those things should fall under the AD's purview.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I am sorry our President pays attention to our athletic department. It is despicable for a President of the University to be informed about his University...

[EatLeadCommie]

Creative but no. They purchased broadcasting rights. ESPN is not a franchisee/booster/legal rep of UT. Sorry.

ESPN and Fox Sports would both be boosters of OU by your logic.

Except OU doesn't own Fox Sports or ESPN.

Texas may be successfully parsing the fine line here, but it is a VERY fine line. That it may turn out to be NCAA compliant is only because it is uncharted territory.

[MeMyself&Me]

The times I've read about Boren have included the Oregon football game, Sherrie Coale's contract (which he lied about UT offering her and never retracted), the Longhorn network, etc. Seems to me those things should fall under the AD's purview.

Let's see, every newspaper I can think of has an entire section devoted to 'sporting' news only and no section dedicated to 'educational' news only. I wonder why it is that you only read about Boren and sports. :rolleyes:

[OUTrumpet]

Creative but no. They purchased broadcasting rights. ESPN is not a franchisee/booster/legal rep of UT. Sorry.

ESPN and Fox Sports would both be boosters of OU by your logic.

They have a vested interest in the success of the university to produce a product which they can market.

If Texas continued to do as ****-poor as they did last year, would ESPN make money off this $15 million / 20 year contract? Not for several years. And ESPN will do everything in it's power to make sure that doesn't happen because of such a huge financial investment.

So yeah, they're not a booster. A booster just wants a school they love to do well and wants to brown nose a bunch of 18-22 year old kids thinking they're the ****. This is much more than that.

[picasso]

The times I've read about Boren have included the Oregon football game, Sherrie Coale's contract (which he lied about UT offering her and never retracted), the Longhorn network, etc. Seems to me those things should fall under the AD's purview.

You're not very in tune if you think he's all athletics all the time. That's just silly.

[badger]

Why does our university president pay such close attention to sports? Uncle Dave knows what gets alumni to open their wallets and show interest in the university. He is getting them to donate en masse during a time of football success and economic turmoil, in an era where tuition, fees, etc. are soaring and state and other funding is dwindling.

He is very much an academic guy, but he knows how to get an OU conversation started. He starts by flashing a half dozen OU Big 12 championship rings, then talks about our Rhodes Scholars, National Merit Scholars, our championship debate team, our prestigious weather center on campus and other research facilities, and how much money has been raised for academic scholarships.

[PalmBeachSooner]

BTW, I've seen gnats with bigger gonads than Beebe.

Dude, why you looking at gnat's nads?

[Herr Scholz]

Except OU doesn't own Fox Sports or ESPN.

?? Neither does Texas.

[Soonerfan88]

Creative but no. They purchased broadcasting rights. ESPN is not a franchisee/booster/legal rep of UT. Sorry.

ESPN and Fox Sports would both be boosters of OU by your logic.

No, those networks are more like a grocery store. They sell a lot of products from a lot of different companies. They have full control of which products to carry based on how well they sell to the public. The only control OU or UT have over the content on standard ESPN and Fox sports is signing the contract to broadcast a specific show/game.

If the Game Day crew talks badly about UT, Dodds does not have the right to have them fired like he does on the LHN. And if ESPN isn't making enough money on UT content, do you really think that Dodds will allow them to broadcast A&M or TTech shows to increase viewership? No, because UT retains at least partial control of content because it is the LONGHORN network.

[Herr Scholz]

Sure, UT retains some control mechanisms over this channel to protect the brand. That doesn't mean Dodds will be telling them what shows to produce or what high school games to show. ESPN is not a franchisee of the university. That's a faulty comparison.

[Sooner_Tuf]

I think it's cool Texas hired a guy from K-State named Da' Loss :D

[Herr Scholz]

Dodds has done OK for us.


Big 12 Conference titles by school
As of June 1, 2011.
List includes both regular-season, tournament titles, and co-championships..
Source:Big 12 Championships By School

Current members
Texas - 114
Texas A&M - 53
Baylor - 42
Oklahoma - 39
Oklahoma State - 40
Kansas - 24
Iowa State - 11
Texas Tech - 11
Kansas State - 7
Missouri - 7

Former members
Nebraska - 72
Colorado - 27

[Partial Qualifier]

Dodds has done OK for us.


Big 12 Conference titles by school
As of June 1, 2011.
List includes both regular-season, tournament titles, and co-championships..
Source:Big 12 Championships By School

Current members
Texas - 114
Texas A&M - 53
Baylor - 42
Oklahoma - 39
Oklahoma State - 40
Kansas - 24
Iowa State - 11
Texas Tech - 11
Kansas State - 7
Missouri - 7

Former members
Nebraska - 72
Colorado - 27

I bet on hot summer weekends, you and your friends grill tofu burgers, drink wine coolers and celebrate all those Womens's Tennis and Men's Swimming and Diving championships.

[SoonerofAlabama]

Dodds has done OK for us.


Big 12 Conference titles by school
As of June 1, 2011.
List includes both regular-season, tournament titles, and co-championships..
Source:Big 12 Championships By School

Current members
Texas - 114
Texas A&M - 53
Baylor - 42
Oklahoma - 39
Oklahoma State - 40
Kansas - 24
Iowa State - 11
Texas Tech - 11
Kansas State - 7
Missouri - 7

Former members
Nebraska - 72
Colorado - 27


http://www.soonersports.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/m-footbl-conf-titles.html

[SoonerinSouthlake]

Paraphrase of Charles Davis today: The NCAA has the power to make a ham sandwich a representative of a school's athletic interests if they really want to.

What a doofus...a ham sandwich would do a terrible job (IMO) as a representative of the schools athletic interests.

[Herr Scholz]

I bet on hot summer weekends, you and your friends grill tofu burgers, drink wine coolers and celebrate all those Womens's Tennis and Men's Swimming and Diving championships.

Forgive us if we like to be successful across the board. BTW, we have swimming titles and you guys have gymnastics and wrestling titles. It's a wash. We have more basketball and baseball titles than you too btw. You obviously win in football.

Just responding to calling Dodds a loser. UT is far and away the most successful athletic dept. in the league. And it's not even close.

[delhalew]

Did I wander onto the tiddley winks board?

[SoonerofAlabama]

Forgive us if we like to be successful across the board. BTW, we have swimming titles and you guys have gymnastics and wrestling titles. It's a wash. We have more basketball and baseball titles than you too btw. You obviously win in football.

Just responding to calling Dodds a loser. UT is far and away the most successful athletic dept. in the league. And it's not even close.

But as we learned from this past year, football is the only thing that matters.

[Herr Scholz]

I will stipulate to that. Football is King. Dodds is one of the top ADs in the country though.

[OU_Sooners75]

Jumping to another conference will not fix the problem. If OU jumps to conference that doesn't play in Texas it will only give UT further advantage there.
If there is no rule against UT televising games of the high school athletes they are recruiting, then the NCAA should make one ASAP. NCAA can pretty much make the rules say whatever they want. The NCAA runs college football. Not sure how much say Mack Brown has, but it looks like it may be considerable.:D

Are you really saying that if OU goes elsewhere without Texas, we will be on worse shape than we are in now when it comes to Texas recruits?

God, I hope you're not! OU survived well for 100 years of football withoutTexas being in our conference. Besides, Texas can only take so many each season!

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Did Herr just go ole OsU up on our ***? ****, i bet OsU has more wrestling National Championships!!

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Did anyone listen to Bob Stoops on the Sports Animal today. Traber asked him something about if he was concerned about texas getting that 300$ million dollars. He said something about Texas wasn't poor before that happened anyway and he felt like OU was still doing pretty good for themselves..

[OU Adonis]

OU with Texas out of the B12 - 6 NC's
OU with Texas in the B12 - 1 NC

We would be fine. I would prefer OU not being in the same conference as Texas, and just go back to scheduling them OOC.

[SoonerMom2]

Are you really saying that if OU goes elsewhere without Texas, we will be on worse shape than we are in now when it comes to Texas recruits?

God, I hope you're not! OU survived well for 100 years of football withoutTexas being in our conference. Besides, Texas can only take so many each season!

That's what I have been saying.

This conference doesn't survive with the Longhorn Network IMHO -- did you hear Mack Brown's comments about the LHN at Media Days? He is the tool of ESPN.

Should have never allowed the four teams from the SW Conference to join the Big 8 when one of the four may be about the most arrogant school in the Country or right up there with them. Their fans are extremely arrogant as well as very liberal -- used to live in Boerne, TX, surrounded by Aggies and Longhorn fans. Glad to move to Norman when they put Kelly AFB on the closure list and live in Sooner Country. We fit in much better up here where common sense reigns. There is a reason a lot of parents from TX send their kids to OU -- TX is too liberal and they don't want to send them to an Aggie school.

[silverwheels]

Meanwhile, the Pac-12's TV deal is awesome (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/sports/ncaafootball/pac-12-conference-to-create-seven-tv-channels.html?_r=2&ref=sports).


Can't believe we stayed in this dying conference.

[Herr Scholz]

There is a reason a lot of parents from TX send their kids to OU -- TX is too liberal and they don't want to send them to an Aggie school.
Might want to check the election results from the last half century. Austin is a blue island in a sea of red in this state. Bush 1 and 2? Rick Perry?

[Sooner_Tuf]

Her? Just one little ol' 5-7 season to reduce you to the level of an OSU Fan.

[OU_Sooners75]

Think of the LHN this way:

Since ESPiN gave Texas 300 million to produce the whorns own network, ESPiN became a booster if Texas. Meaning they are now bound by NCAA rules as much as Texas is.

Oops! One minor NCAA violation down how many more? If a team is prohibited to place a picture of a recruit on their jumbo-from, then how can a school put that same picture on their tv network?

Hmmmm....

[OUTrumpet]

Might want to check the election results from the last half century. Austin is a blue island in a sea of red in this state. Bush 1 and 2? Rick Perry?

He was referring to the University of Texas, not the state.

[MichiganSooner]

UT currently has 50 NFL players to OU's 40. Both schools put plenty of guys in the league.



You need to subract Roy Williams.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I said last year it was a mistake to keep bowing to DeLoss Dodds and Texas. But, many people here defended Beebe last year for "saving the conference."

Stupid.

Texas will do no better than Notre Dame has on its own with its own television deal. For all schools, the truth is that, other than alumni, people across the country aren't going to give enough of a crap about your program. They want to see the schools they graduated from.

Also, unless Texas magically gets more than 85 scholarships a year, they have no competitive advantage. Hell, they've already got more money than everyone and still f*ck up to the degree of 5-7.

Money doesn't lift weights. It doesn't run bleachers. It doesn't get out on the field and play. Texas can have one gym per exercise...it doesn't matter. They still are not going to be able to do any more than they are now.

In the end, the SEC is a better option all the way around for OU and A&M and the fan base. We'd actually be able to jettison crappy league games like Baylor, Tech, Iowa State, Kansas, etc. and replace them with games people would want watch - Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, etc.

Beebe will say whatever he can to save his own paycheck. But, sooner or later, OU or A&M will grow the balls to tell Texas to take their TV station and go independent - which will kill them.

As conferences grow, schools only having three OOC games is becoming the norm, so few will want to schedule Texas. The 'Horns will be stuck scheduling the service academies year after year like Notre Dame. They'll also be able to pick up the doormats of the region like North Texas, UTEP, Rice, New Mexico. Wow. That will be some exciting football.

The other issue is market saturation. College football has reached that point. If they aren't careful, they'll kill themselves the way boxing killed itself when everything went pay-per-view.

The average Joe isn't going to pay $24.95 a game every week just to watch Navy versus Texas, or North Texas versus Texas, etc. That's where this whole thing is headed. And, that's when the Texas' and BYUs of the world figure out what Notre Dame already has - no one outside the lunatic element of their fan base gives enough of a damn to tune in.

Personally, it will be fun to watch Texas implode with its new toy. I only hope OU doesn't follow suit. I just want Castiglione to grow balls, along with Boren, and tell Texas to go have fun playing the service academies, Rice, and the Mean Green on their own network.

With fewer OOC games on the schedule and more of the big boys going to six to eight (yes, eight) homes games, Texas will need OU and A&M a hell of a lot more in the future than OU and A&M need them. I say, let'm crash.

[LePetomaine]

Trying to get back on task -- would showing high school games really give UT an advantage? I don't know much about the LHN (other than, from what I read, it is not exactly taking off). Also, I'm no expert on recruiting, but friends of mine have been very involved in recruiting publications in the past usually have the same view: some players choose a school due to some loyalty (family, play close to home, always been a fan, etc.). But, I'm told, most of them don't really a big reason for the choice; they just liked one more than the others. So, while I truly have on opinion on the LHN, I just don't see that it will really make a difference.

[picasso]

Trying to get back on task -- would showing high school games really give UT an advantage? I don't know much about the LHN (other than, from what I read, it is not exactly taking off). Also, I'm no expert on recruiting, but friends of mine have been very involved in recruiting publications in the past usually have the same view: some players choose a school due to some loyalty (family, play close to home, always been a fan, etc.). But, I'm told, most of them don't really a big reason for the choice; they just liked one more than the others. So, while I truly have on opinion on the LHN, I just don't see that it will really make a difference.

Did you go to LePetomaine U?

[Herr Scholz]

You need to subract Roy Williams.

Might want to tell the Chicago Bears that.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

If they pay him the veteran minimum..it would still be too much

[Jdog]

You don't read enough. Boren doesn't have an athletic bone in his body.

Hay I know for a fact that he does palates.

[Jdog]

Sure, UT retains some control mechanisms over this channel to protect the brand. That doesn't mean Dodds will be telling them what shows to produce or what high school games to show. ESPN is not a franchisee of the university. That's a faulty comparison.

No, they're in a partnership; thats why everyone in the past has referred to it as a partnership, including Dodds.
You're fooling yourself if you think Dodds can't "recommend" programing.

[bluedogok]

Might want to check the election results from the last half century. Austin is a blue island in a sea of red in this state. Bush 1 and 2? Rick Perry?
There's a bit more "blue" than that, urban Dallas and urban Houston along with the valley are blue areas....but yes, the "red" suburbs around the large cities and rural counties dominate the state.

[Oh_You]

It's a done deal. Texas submits and the Big 12 remains the superior conference in NCAA football.

[SoonerMom2]

There's a bit more "blue" than that, urban Dallas and urban Houston along with the valley are blue areas....but yes, the "red" suburbs around the large cities and rural counties dominate the state.

Don't forget S. San Antonio is blue -- North, NE, and NW SA are red for the most part especially leading up I-10 to Kendall County which is the only county in TX never to vote for LBJ and where I used to live. :)

[Oh_You]

Hopefully the Dream Act will create a massive wave of blue voters and turn Texas into one of the largest and most important Dem states in the US. Latino majority is the only hope for future progress in OK and TX. Anyway, congrats to me on my first post earlier...I will try harder to stay on topic.

[picasso]

Hopefully the Dream Act will create a massive wave of blue voters and turn Texas into one of the largest and most important Dem states in the US. Latino majority is the only hope for future progress in OK and TX. Anyway, congrats to me on my first post earlier...I will try harder to stay on topic.

That's brilliant. Texas is the current model for success in our country.

[Oh_You]

That's brilliant. Texas is the current model for success in our country.

You consider open racism and open carry gun laws successful models for America? Texas is the largest thorn in the side of America's progress.

[picasso]

You consider open racism and open carry gun laws successful models for America? Texas is the largest thorn in the side of America's progress.

Go look and see which states are bankrupt and which aren't and get back to me smart guy.
Who said anything about racism? Silly person.

[Harry Beanbag]

Hopefully the Dream Act will create a massive wave of blue voters and turn Texas into one of the largest and most important Dem states in the US. Latino majority is the only hope for future progress in OK and TX. Anyway, congrats to me on my first post earlier...I will try harder to stay on topic.


You consider open racism and open carry gun laws successful models for America? Texas is the largest thorn in the side of America's progress.


You are ****ing retarded.

[SoonerDood]

Did "The" make a return?

[Oh_You]

You are ****ing retarded.

Ad hominem attacks are confessions of defeat.

[Harry Beanbag]

Ad hominem attacks are confessions of defeat.


No. Your posts show obvious signs of profound mental deficiency.