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Aldebaran
7/20/2011, 04:27 PM
Largest commercial aircraft deal in history goes green

American Airlines just announced a huge $38 billion commitment to fuel efficient, climate-friendly airplanes with the purchase of 460 new aircraft. American hopes that this purchase will help get it out of its current financial troubles: In the second quarter, parent company AMR lost a whopping $286 million as increased fuel prices overwhelmed a boost in revenue.

American is getting the majority of its new planes from European manufacturer Airbus, which has taken a commanding lead in production of the fuel efficient, climate-friendly aircraft the aviation industry is demanding. The move is a further blow to Boeing, the traditional U.S. market leader, which has struggled to keep pace: American hadn't ordered an Airbus plane in 20 years.

Among the planes American is ordering from Airbus is the A320neo, which the company says is 15 percent more fuel efficient than aircraft currently in service. The neo was the star of the Paris Air Show, where Airbus racked up a further 730 new plane orders, compared to just 142 for Boeing.

As I wrote a few weeks ago, Airbus' success at delivering the fuel efficient, climate-friendly planes airlines are demanding is giving Europe an enormous green jobs dividend. Its lead at the Paris air show alone amounted to an estimated 1 million additional jobs for workers in Toulouse, Hamburg, and Seville, and today's announcement will deliver even more. This advantage didn't come from nowhere: It reflects a more intense focus on efficiency and climate in European business, driven in part by Europe's climate law, which is about to require emissions reductions in the aviation sector.

Until the United States is willing to make a similarly ambitious effort to cut pollution and invest in green innovation, we may see more and more jobs in more and more sectors leaving our shores for those countries that are meeting the big, green demand increasingly driving business decisions around the world.

Glenn Hurowitz is a senior fellow at the Center for International Policy. You can follow his Twitter feed about forests, climate, and wildlife: @glennhurowitz.



http://www.grist.org/business-technology/2011-07-20-largest-commercial-aircraft-deal-in-history-goes-green

The
7/20/2011, 04:31 PM
DAMN YOU, OBAMA!

KantoSooner
7/20/2011, 04:31 PM
I think his conclusion is flawed. I really don't see American Airlines as making a multi-billion dollar decision on the basis of the green-ness of the aircraft. Boeing simply doesn't, at the moment, have the fuel efficiency to match in that short haul segment.
They will once they get the 787 fiasco behind them.

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 04:33 PM
Climate friendly jets....lol....

OUHOMER
7/20/2011, 04:33 PM
Yep, its about the money. and thats's all it's about

sappstuf
7/20/2011, 04:35 PM
Largest commercial aircraft deal in history goes green

American Airlines just announced a huge $38 billion commitment to fuel efficient, climate-friendly airplanes with the purchase of 460 new aircraft. American hopes that this purchase will help get it out of its current financial troubles: In the second quarter, parent company AMR lost a whopping $286 million as increased fuel prices overwhelmed a boost in revenue.

American is getting the majority of its new planes from European manufacturer Airbus, which has taken a commanding lead in production of the fuel efficient, climate-friendly aircraft the aviation industry is demanding. The move is a further blow to Boeing, the traditional U.S. market leader, which has struggled to keep pace: American hadn't ordered an Airbus plane in 20 years.

Among the planes American is ordering from Airbus is the A320neo, which the company says is 15 percent more fuel efficient than aircraft currently in service. The neo was the star of the Paris Air Show, where Airbus racked up a further 730 new plane orders, compared to just 142 for Boeing.

As I wrote a few weeks ago, Airbus' success at delivering the fuel efficient, climate-friendly planes airlines are demanding is giving Europe an enormous green jobs dividend. Its lead at the Paris air show alone amounted to an estimated 1 million additional jobs for workers in Toulouse, Hamburg, and Seville, and today's announcement will deliver even more. This advantage didn't come from nowhere: It reflects a more intense focus on efficiency and climate in European business, driven in part by Europe's climate law, which is about to require emissions reductions in the aviation sector.

Until the United States is willing to make a similarly ambitious effort to cut pollution and invest in green innovation, we may see more and more jobs in more and more sectors leaving our shores for those countries that are meeting the big, green demand increasingly driving business decisions around the world.

Glenn Hurowitz is a senior fellow at the Center for International Policy. You can follow his Twitter feed about forests, climate, and wildlife: @glennhurowitz.



http://www.grist.org/business-technology/2011-07-20-largest-commercial-aircraft-deal-in-history-goes-green

You wouldn't know it from reading that story, but AA ordered 200 planes from Boeing and 260 from Airbus.

sappstuf
7/20/2011, 04:36 PM
Climate friendly jets....lol....

You really have to stretch the meaning of "green jobs" to include jet aircraft...

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 04:36 PM
V7b3pov9--E

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 04:38 PM
You wouldn't know it from reading that story, but AA ordered 200 planes from Boeing and 260 from Airbus.

They have a very large number of aging aircraft to replace and sometimes one manufacturer can't meet their demand.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 04:42 PM
It's a huge amount of dollars saved on fuel over time

UPj2uA4n5Co

JohnnyMack
7/20/2011, 04:42 PM
Super 80's suck. I'm glad they're going away and I don't care if the new planes come from Mars.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
7/20/2011, 04:43 PM
Yep, its about the money. and thats's all it's about

Based on the split order, it probably had to do more with getting the planes quickly. You have to reserve these things 5 years out and AA's fleet of MadDogs is nearing end of life. By splitting the order between Boeing/Airbus they could probably get 40 planes a month instead of 20 or so.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 04:47 PM
Cockpit looks a lot like the MD-80's they will be replacing too.

4j7SUxzSQiQ&feature=related

GKeeper316
7/20/2011, 04:47 PM
what do they make them out of? plywood held together by tree sap?

gonna be ****ty when these "green" airplanes start dropping out of the sky.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 04:48 PM
Based on the split order, it probably had to do more with getting the planes quickly. You have to reserve these things 5 years out and AA's fleet of MadDogs is nearing end of life. By splitting the order between Boeing/Airbus they could probably get 40 planes a month instead of 20 or so.

Yep.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 04:49 PM
what do they make them out of? plywood held together by tree sap?

gonna be ****ty when these "green" airplanes start dropping out of the sky.

Sure they will.....:rolleyes:

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/douglas.htm

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/a320.htm

GKeeper316
7/20/2011, 04:51 PM
V7b3pov9--E

that guy is as boring as watching 2 old people ****.

has anyone told him the crappy picture behind him is crooked? i swear a monkey produced that video.

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 04:53 PM
They have a very large number of aging aircraft to replace and sometimes one manufacturer can't meet their demand.

I thought Boeing nearly had a monopoly on passenger aircraft?

sappstuf
7/20/2011, 04:54 PM
I think his conclusion is flawed. I really don't see American Airlines as making a multi-billion dollar decision on the basis of the green-ness of the aircraft. Boeing simply doesn't, at the moment, have the fuel efficiency to match in that short haul segment.
They will once they get the 787 fiasco behind them.

What fiasco was that? I thought the A380 was the fiasco.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 04:55 PM
The A320's are plenty tough.

PWl0TygaeDw&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Lott's Bandana
7/20/2011, 04:55 PM
Put that dayum MD80 to pasture.

I hate to admit it, but Airbus makes some good aircraft. Boeing is going to sell some in this deal, but they really need to step up if they want to supply anyone but Southwest in the future.

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 04:56 PM
What fiasco was that? I thought the A380 was the fiasco.

Years behind schedule...the carbon fiber has been a thorn in their side...they contracted out a bunch of the plane and things didn't come together quite right...

Lott's Bandana
7/20/2011, 04:58 PM
The A320's are plenty tough.

PWl0TygaeDw&NR=1&feature=fvwp


I love youtube aircraft boo-boo videos. Keeps me occupied for hours.

GKeeper316
7/20/2011, 04:58 PM
I thought Boeing nearly had a monopoly on passenger aircraft?

oh no. not even close.

and i can't remember the last time they got a military contract. lockheed has gotten every major new jet fighter/bomber contract in the last 20 years. i saw the military channel's 2 hour special a few years ago about the boeing/lockheed next gen fighter called the JSF.

its the new F-35 and its bad ***. most advanced weapon system on the planet.

Lott's Bandana
7/20/2011, 05:01 PM
oh no. not even close.

and i can't remember the last time they got a military contract. lockheed has gotten every major new jet fighter/bomber contract in the last 20 years. i saw the military channel's 2 hour special a few years ago about the boeing/lockheed next gen fighter called the JSF.

its the new F-35 and its bad ***. most advanced weapon system on the planet.


I could be wrong, but I think the Joint Service Fighter (JSF) got **** canned because of $$$, so the AF went with the Raptor and the Navy simply upgraded their F-18s to the SuperHornet.

Then again, I haven't paid that much attention in the past coupla years...

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 05:03 PM
oh no. not even close.

and i can't remember the last time they got a military contract. lockheed has gotten every major new jet fighter/bomber contract in the last 20 years. i saw the military channel's 2 hour special a few years ago about the boeing/lockheed next gen fighter called the JSF.

its the new F-35 and its bad ***. most advanced weapon system on the planet.

ST was saying that in an old thread...I was just stirring the pot...

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 05:05 PM
I thought Boeing nearly had a monopoly on passenger aircraft?

In America they do. American probably only went with Airbus because of the need to deliver a lot of planes fast.

They already have 151 orders pending from Boeing and are not Boeing's only customer. Timelines, economy, the ability to finance or obtain lease deals aren't easy things to juggle when you have only two basic Aircraft in the 737 and the A320 to choose from. The MD-80's are fuel hogs and have long been in need of replacement for a long time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Fleet#Fleet

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 05:09 PM
You damn sure have changed your tune...

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155788&page=3&highlight=postal+service

Yeah but we are talking about a Corporation that has a Monopoly in the World Market for the most part and they can't make money? They're only excuse is that Union Labor is the reason they are unable to make it when they have been cutting Union Jobs from their Workforce for over 2 decades?

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 05:10 PM
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155788&page=3&highlight=postal+service

The two products can't even be compared either. Why the hell can't Boeing make it? They are the only Company to buy new planes from and they layoff the workforce during a famine.

sappstuf
7/20/2011, 05:12 PM
Years behind schedule...the carbon fiber has been a thorn in their side...they contracted out a bunch of the plane and things didn't come together quite right...

Too bad.. I thought they had a big advantage over the 380 when they both came out.

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 05:13 PM
Too bad.. I thought they had a big advantage over the 380 when they both came out.

It has been a terrible fiasco...

diverdog
7/20/2011, 05:14 PM
Based on the split order, it probably had to do more with getting the planes quickly. You have to reserve these things 5 years out and AA's fleet of MadDogs is nearing end of life. By splitting the order between Boeing/Airbus they could probably get 40 planes a month instead of 20 or so.

They are also a global company and they are trying to please every one.

GKeeper316
7/20/2011, 05:14 PM
I could be wrong, but I think the Joint Service Fighter (JSF) got **** canned because of $$$, so the AF went with the Raptor and the Navy simply upgraded their F-18s to the SuperHornet.

Then again, I haven't paid that much attention in the past coupla years...

still not offically dead... but apparently the pentagon isn't at all happy with the delays and estimated price per unit. the brits the israelis and the australians are all gonna be in the same boat as us when our current fighters become too worn out to maintain and there's nothing ready to replace them... maybe the pentagon should have gone with boeing's design instead.

Vbnsr2oF2gM

sappstuf
7/20/2011, 05:16 PM
It has been a terrible fiasco...

I just read the Wiki article.. Good grief.. They still haven't delivered a plane!

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 05:17 PM
I just read the Wiki article.. Good grief.. They still haven't delivered a plane!

But they flew one to Japan in the last month...

diverdog
7/20/2011, 05:17 PM
I could be wrong, but I think the Joint Service Fighter (JSF) got **** canned because of $$$, so the AF went with the Raptor and the Navy simply upgraded their F-18s to the SuperHornet.

Then again, I haven't paid that much attention in the past coupla years...

The problem with AF is they want an air superiority fighter when they really need is more A10s and AC130's,

sappstuf
7/20/2011, 05:25 PM
But they flew one to Japan in the last month...

It made it?? ;)

sappstuf
7/20/2011, 05:26 PM
The problem with AF is they want an air superiority fighter when they really need is more A10s and AC130's,

The AF got their F22. It is one badass plane. It will also be the last manned fighter, I bet. Great way to go out.

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 05:26 PM
It made it?? ;)

In one piece...

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 05:26 PM
ST was saying that in an old thread...I was just stirring the pot...

I remember the thread but I don't recall everything that was said.

I do know that other than the MD-80....AA's entire fleet is Boeing Aircraft....until now.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's they had at least 11 or 12 different fleet types and after the Fokker Fiasco (A plane that made them a lot of money)....they decided to reduce the number of Fleet Types. There are other reasons I'm sure they don't share with everyone just like any company as to why they went to all Boeing and now have decided to purchase Airbus Products again. I can only guess as to why they suddenly changed but Money and operating costs and reliability of the airframe are usually good enough reasons. I know they seemed to like the 737 so why not stick with them? I think you'll have to ask the CEO's of all 3 and read between the lines and maybe even read the papers. Maybe then you'll have an answer you can live with....that is....if you really care or are just a DB that likes to stir the pot.

sappstuf
7/20/2011, 05:27 PM
In one piece...

And only three fires!

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 05:28 PM
They are also a global company and they are trying to please every one.

That's very true too....they maybe trying to please the EU and obtain landing rights as well.

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 05:31 PM
I remember the thread but I don't recall everything that was said.

I do know that other than the MD-80....AA's entire fleet is Boeing Aircraft....until now.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's they had at least 11 or 12 different fleet types and after the Fokker Fiasco (A plane that made them a lot of money)....they decided to reduce the number of Fleet Types. There are other reasons I'm sure they don't share with everyone just like any company as to why they went to all Boeing and now have decided to purchase Airbus Products again. I can only guess as to why they suddenly changed but Money and operating costs and reliability of the airframe are usually good enough reasons. I know they seemed to like the 737 so why not stick with them? I think you'll have to ask the CEO's of all 3 and read between the lines and maybe even read the papers. Maybe then you'll have an answer you can live with....that is....if you really care or are just a DB that likes to stir the pot.

I am a dirtbag...but I can admit when I am wrong...:D

OUMallen
7/20/2011, 05:33 PM
Climate friendly jets....lol....

That's what I was thinking

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 05:35 PM
You damn sure have changed your tune...

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155788&page=3&highlight=postal+service

Yeah but we are talking about a Corporation that has a Monopoly in the World Market for the most part and they can't make money? They're only excuse is that Union Labor is the reason they are unable to make it when they have been cutting Union Jobs from their Workforce for over 2 decades?

Watching them lose a major order from one of America's Premier Airlines tends to change the World Market. You did read that Airbus announced changes in their product at the Paris Airshow since that thread was posted right?

Quit being a dumbass. There is no Trophy for biggest Dooshbag on the internet. If there was you still would need to up your game just to be nominated.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 05:36 PM
I am a dirtbag...but I can admit when I am wrong...:D

Me too....I'll let you know when I am, that way you won't have to keep up your end as much.

sappstuf
7/20/2011, 05:44 PM
Quit being a dumbass. There is no Trophy for biggest Dooshbag on the internet. If there was you still would need to up your game just to be nominated.

http://www.gothicalchemist.com/catalog/oddballkellysheroes2T1.jpg

pphilfran
7/20/2011, 05:46 PM
Watching them lose a major order from one of America's Premier Airlines tends to change the World Market. You did read that Airbus announced changes in their product at the Paris Airshow since that thread was posted right?

Quit being a dumbass. There is no Trophy for biggest Dooshbag on the internet. If there was you still would need to up your game just to be nominated.

I win! When do I get my award?

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
7/20/2011, 05:52 PM
They are also a global company and they are trying to please every one.

It could be that or it could be some other options like...

They could be looking to expand on what they did with productizing the Tulsa maintenance facility. They've been pretty successful at acquiring smaller airlines maintenance contracts. The Airbus jets typically were based out of Miami and took care of all the South America Routes (I wonder if they smuggle better or soemthing ;)). By adding that many, they could build up a pretty big maintenance facility in Florida (or heck back to Tulsa for that matter) to handle the Airbus planes.

It could be that the A320neo is a better plane for those SA hops. Not sure about the range on the 737-900s but it may just not be suited for those overseas routes.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
7/20/2011, 05:54 PM
I remember the thread but I don't recall everything that was said.

I do know that other than the MD-80....AA's entire fleet is Boeing Aircraft....until now.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's they had at least 11 or 12 different fleet types and after the Fokker Fiasco (A plane that made them a lot of money)....they decided to reduce the number of Fleet Types. There are other reasons I'm sure they don't share with everyone just like any company as to why they went to all Boeing and now have decided to purchase Airbus Products again. I can only guess as to why they suddenly changed but Money and operating costs and reliability of the airframe are usually good enough reasons. I know they seemed to like the 737 so why not stick with them? I think you'll have to ask the CEO's of all 3 and read between the lines and maybe even read the papers. Maybe then you'll have an answer you can live with....that is....if you really care or are just a DB that likes to stir the pot.

AA had some A320s for a while out of Miami. They sold them because of quality issues.

[Also technically the MD80 is a Boeing plane ;)]

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 06:04 PM
AA had some A320s for a while out of Miami. They sold them because of quality issues.

[Also technically the MD80 is a Boeing plane ;)]

I don't really wish to talk about the AB300's and I know you know better about the 80's.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 06:04 PM
I win! When do I get my award?

You didn't even get nominated. :gary:

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 06:06 PM
http://www.gothicalchemist.com/catalog/oddballkellysheroes2T1.jpg

Sure thing Mr. Dorfman...

u1hnwvWhbJw

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
7/20/2011, 06:21 PM
I don't really wish to talk about the AB300's and I know you know better about the 80's.

I'm just saying that Boeing bought out MD and the MD80 is listed on their website as a Boeing plane. Thus the ;).

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
7/20/2011, 06:22 PM
I don't really wish to talk about the AB300's and I know you know better about the 80's.

Ah, 300 not a 320. I just remember my FIL complaining about them incessantly...

soonersponge
7/20/2011, 06:23 PM
Airbus takes a less skilled pilot. They rely on computers more than a Boeing. The engines also are not near as powerful. Delta pilots were shocked at how some Airbus NWA pilots had no clue how to really fly a plane. This is a huge blow to Boeing and also creates less costs for unskilled pilots for American. It makes no sense in safety and quality.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 06:32 PM
Airbus takes a less skilled pilot. They rely on computers more than a Boeing. The engines also are not near as powerful. Delta pilots were shocked at how some Airbus NWA pilots had no clue how to really fly a plane. This is a huge blow to Boeing and also creates less costs for unskilled pilots for American. It makes no sense in safety and quality.

I know a lot of pilots said they liked the MD-80 because they actually got to do something at work. Fly by Wire changed a lot.

DIB
7/20/2011, 06:32 PM
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i32/zeioccw/scarebusdemotivator.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/16/article-1118283-03128492000005DC-934_468x371.jpg

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 06:33 PM
Ah, 300 not a 320. I just remember my FIL complaining about them incessantly...

He wasn't alone in that feeling.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 06:37 PM
I'm just saying that Boeing bought out MD and the MD80 is listed on their website as a Boeing plane. Thus the ;).

I know. There is a lot of hard feelings in Tulsa as some Families worked a long time at that MD Plant.

We got a lot of really good people from that who had to start a 2nd career.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
7/20/2011, 06:37 PM
DIB, the 747 noses used to fall off.

OutlandTrophy
7/20/2011, 06:40 PM
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i32/zeioccw/scarebusdemotivator.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/16/article-1118283-03128492000005DC-934_468x371.jpg

American and the idiots in their Tulsa mx department have a helluva distaster on their hands as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

soonersponge
7/20/2011, 06:50 PM
I know a lot of pilots said they liked the MD-80 because they actually got to do something at work. Fly by Wire changed a lot.

From what I have heard, the best built plane in the world to fly is the 767. The 777 is fly by wire and different. The Air France crash from South America could have been prevented if it was not for the "flight envelope protection" airbus has.

I try to fly Boeing as much as possible. I just enjoy the fact a person can actually fly the plane if something happens. They also have a feeling of more power to me as pilots say as well.

I also don't enjoy the large Airbus planes luggage compartments swaying and rattling on take off. Just seems I am on a POS.

Maybe we will snap another Rudder above NY soon.

Lott's Bandana
7/20/2011, 06:53 PM
From what I have heard, the best built plane in the world to fly is the 767. The 777 is fly by wire and different. The Air France crash from South America could have been prevented if it was not for the "flight envelope protection" airbus has.

I try to fly Boeing as much as possible. I just enjoy the fact a person can actually fly the plane if something happens. They also have a feeling of more power to me as pilots say as well.

I also don't enjoy the large Airbus planes luggage compartments swaying and rattling on take off. Just seems I am on a POS.


I'll stick to my statement that I like Airbus planes, however, there is a point just after takeoff where the pilot (computer?) throttles back and it sounds like engine failure. I flew United's fleet so often I knew it was coming and liked looking at the startled faces every time those A320s took off.

soonersponge
7/20/2011, 06:56 PM
I also like the high pitched random sound when the engines start on the Airbus.

I am hoping Conti's CEO in charge of United will retire the Airbus fleet. One can only hope.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 07:05 PM
I love the 757. There are some things I would change but they are purely from a MNTC stand point. It has nothing to do with safety just the amount of work that takes place when they go through Heavy MNTC. I guess some folks take the position that it's Job Protection by having to fix certain things over and over but I think it just has to do with getting two companies engineers to agree that a fix would be beneficial. I'd imagine you are always going to have a disagreement when one Company sells the repair parts....lol

Honestly I have never worked on 767 or 777. I do know some folks that did work on the 777's for awhile but they have since moved the plane's MNTC back to Ft. Worth from what I hear.

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 07:10 PM
I also like the high pitched random sound when the engines start on the Airbus.

I am hoping Conti's CEO in charge of United will retire the Airbus fleet. One can only hope.

I like Continental. I think they have some good ideas and some really good people there. If I was to work for another Airline I would love to have a shot at helping them if they were to need MNTC Personnel. I have a lot of respect for them. Houston is way to hot and way to far from Norman.

soonersponge
7/20/2011, 07:23 PM
Pilots are dual certified on 757 and 767 normally. Very similar planes so if you like 757, 767 is about the same but larger.

This whole thing came about because Boeing did not want to arrange financing for the entire American order or all would have been Boeing. If AA has to reorganize(which they will), France and the Euro are fooked.

Fish&Game
7/20/2011, 07:29 PM
oh no. not even close.

and i can't remember the last time they got a military contract. Yea it has been awhile...since at least February...when Boeing beat out Airbus....

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2011/feb/25/boeing-lands-35b-contract/

OutlandTrophy
7/20/2011, 07:53 PM
Yea it has been awhile...since at least February...when Boeing beat out Airbus....

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2011/feb/25/boeing-lands-35b-contract/

does that guy get anything right?

StoopTroup
7/20/2011, 08:04 PM
To the folks negging me....

I'd love to respond to your questions but I don't know who you are. If you feel the need to leave a message....I'm right here posting in this thread. I don't get the whole SPEK Deal. Why is it even still there?

To all the folks leaving me positive SPEK....thanks but I don't know who you are and I'm unable to return the favor so if you want....just leave a thumbs up if you want.

texaspokieokie
7/20/2011, 08:21 PM
AA had some A320s for a while out of Miami. They sold them because of quality issues.

[Also technically the MD80 is a Boeing plane ;)]

since Boeing took over Douglas.

md-80 looks like old DC-9.

Does anyone fly DC-10s anymore.

or MD-11s.

KantoSooner
7/21/2011, 08:12 AM
What fiasco was that? I thought the A380 was the fiasco.

787 is about 5 years behind schedule, hasn't finished (begun?) flight test and Boeing is bleeding cash paying airlines to hold their orders and wait.
Two problems: their engineers ****ed up in design and created huge assembly problems (wire harnesses on opposite sides of body sections, for example) and their managers failed to coordinate or monitor the army of subcons tasked with sub-assemblies.
The project is borderline treasonous in the complete failure to do even a semblance of their job.

SoonerStormchaser
7/21/2011, 08:38 AM
Cockpit looks a lot like the MD-80's they will be replacing too.


Who cares, IMO, Airbus's are pieces of ****! Find me an airline that keeps them past 20 years...hell, there are still DC-8's still flying around. Airbus is like Kia...they build it on cheap materials and sell it to you cheaply...but they don't last worth a damn!
And since AMR just posted a $200 million loss for the past quarter, I'm wondering if they'll even be around by the time they're supposed to take delivery of these aircraft.

SoonerStormchaser
7/21/2011, 08:42 AM
AA had some A320s for a while out of Miami. They sold them because of quality issues.

[Also technically the MD80 is a Boeing plane ;)]

AA has NEVER had A320's...they had some A300's...then the tail snapped off one cause Airbus builds POS airplanes with ****ty composites. Airbus blamed AA...AA blamed Airbus...and AA retired them in 09.

Seriously...next time you fly on an Airbus, watch the wings in even light turbulence...

StoopTroup
7/21/2011, 10:02 AM
Who cares, IMO, Airbus's are pieces of ****! Find me an airline that keeps them past 20 years...hell, there are still DC-8's still flying around. Airbus is like Kia...they build it on cheap materials and sell it to you cheaply...but they don't last worth a damn!
And since AMR just posted a $200 million loss for the past quarter, I'm wondering if they'll even be around by the time they're supposed to take delivery of these aircraft.

I think the FAA and the NTSB care as do all the folks that make Aircraft, Repair Aircraft and Fly Aircraft.

I know this....their continuing mission is to provide the safest, most efficient aerospace system in the world and it's cool you have an opinion but I think the track records for planes show that they all do a good job of moving people about the World. The basic theory of flight has been dialed in very well and for a very long time. Is it possible that one aircraft is better than another? I guess that's why they are competitors and when Boeing had a chance to really own World Dominance in Commercial Aviation the folks at Airbus seemed to come up with an idea of making some changes to the A320s. As far as the A300s are concerned....I have only worked on some Engine Cowlings and a few A-Checks. I've never been involved on a Heavy Check of that Airframe so I don't feel qualified to make any such statement like you have.

sappstuf
7/21/2011, 10:04 AM
AA has NEVER had A320's...they had some A300's...then the tail snapped off one cause Airbus builds POS airplanes with ****ty composites. Airbus blamed AA...AA blamed Airbus...and AA retired them in 09.

Seriously...next time you fly on an Airbus, watch the wings in even light turbulence...

This is now #1 on my list of things NOT to do on an Airbus...

StoopTroup
7/21/2011, 10:17 AM
AA has NEVER had A320's...they had some A300's...then the tail snapped off one cause Airbus builds POS airplanes with ****ty composites. Airbus blamed AA...AA blamed Airbus...and AA retired them in 09.

Seriously...next time you fly on an Airbus, watch the wings in even light turbulence...

I'll say this. The difference a wing say on a 737 or a 757 with winglets vs without winglets in flight is tremendous. I've flown on non-modified and modified types of both aircraft. I was amazed at the difference of the curvature of the wings in flight that had been modified. The amount of engineering that Boeing put into them to be able to handle those stresses is amazing and I really think they did a great job in modifying many of the older aircraft so they could be more efficient.

Tails and wings are real different though. Just thought I'd mention that. They have lots of different stresses considering the job they do in flight. Ailerons are different from Flaps and flaps are different from slats and slats are different from vertical stabilizers and VSs are different than trim tabs and TTs are different from elevators...and the ankle bone is connected to the foot bone as well as the shin bone. :D

Fraggle145
7/21/2011, 11:01 AM
I'll say this. The difference a wing say on a 737 or a 757 with winglets vs without winglets in flight is tremendous. I've flown on non-modified and modified types of both aircraft. I was amazed at the difference of the curvature of the wings in flight that had been modified. The amount of engineering that Boeing put into them to be able to handle those stresses is amazing and I really think they did a great job in modifying many of the older aircraft so they could be more efficient.

Tails and wings are real different though. Just thought I'd mention that. They have lots of different stresses considering the job they do in flight. Ailerons are different from Flaps and flaps are different from slats and slats are different from vertical stabilizers and VSs are different than trim tabs and TTs are different from elevators...and the ankle bone is connected to the foot bone as well as the shin bone. :D

I'll show you my vertical stabilizer. It can handle all of your different stresses. PM me.

StoopTroup
7/21/2011, 11:02 AM
AA has NEVER had A320's...they had some A300's...then the tail snapped off one cause Airbus builds POS airplanes with ****ty composites. Airbus blamed AA...AA blamed Airbus...and AA retired them in 09.

Seriously...next time you fly on an Airbus, watch the wings in even light turbulence...


I'll show you my vertical stabilizer. It can handle all of your different stresses. PM me.

:D

Lott's Bandana
7/21/2011, 11:10 AM
Being an Air Force Brat of a '60s era pilot, I am a total aircraft fanboy, especially vintage military models.

However, all this talk of commercial airframes is giving me the wood. Bring up Boeing's new contract for the KC-46A and I'll need a cigarette...

:P

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
7/21/2011, 11:49 AM
since Boeing took over Douglas.

md-80 looks like old DC-9.

Does anyone fly DC-10s anymore.

or MD-11s.

I think NWA still uses some DC-9s or 10s in short haul flights.

SoonerStormchaser
7/21/2011, 01:12 PM
I think NWA still uses some DC-9s or 10s in short haul flights.

NWA merged with Delta a few years ago...all they have left are the DC-9-50's...and those'll be gone by late next year.