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REDREX
7/8/2011, 09:10 AM
Is this the summer of recovery or was that last summer ?

tator
7/8/2011, 09:11 AM
Next summer (poke-speak)

jk the sooner fan
7/8/2011, 09:15 AM
eventually somebody will figure out that private industry creates jobs and not the government

until then......

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 09:16 AM
So 1 in 10 posters here are unemployed? That figure seems much, much too low.

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 09:17 AM
i was wondering how long it would take for the pseudo conservatives to go. team. fight. win. and do the touchdown dance. i've said it 100 times, employment is not coming back until we find another bubble. america is a bubble economy and if obama is lucky enough to stumble across one, 9% will be the norm. what i want to know is why the ADP report gets so much market reaction. they missed the mark is a big way.

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 09:17 AM
eventually somebody will figure out that private industry creates jobs and not the government

until then......

DEREGULATE EVERYTHING! YEE HAW! :texan:

tommieharris91
7/8/2011, 09:21 AM
eventually somebody will figure out that private industry creates jobs and not the government

until then......

Yet governments keep cutting jobs. Who woulda thunk that?

sappstuf
7/8/2011, 09:30 AM
Don't worry, Obama has a press conference this morning to tell us how it is all the Repubs fault...

OutlandTrophy
7/8/2011, 09:31 AM
that f'ing Bush guy. He's still at it, wrecking our economy. What an a$$hole.

okie52
7/8/2011, 09:33 AM
that f'ing Bush guy. He's still at it, wrecking our economy. What an a$$hole.

He was at the Ranger's game when the fan fell to his death. Now you know why it happened.

REDREX
7/8/2011, 09:46 AM
Maybe someday Barack and the big Gov't lovers will figuire out that more Gov't has always hurt business and job growth

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 09:52 AM
Maybe someday Barack and the big Gov't lovers will figuire out that more Gov't has always hurt business and job growth

seriously? ever hear of TARP? dude your reaching deep. did you take your stupid pills this morning? awaiting another nonsensical trite talking point......

Peach Fuzz
7/8/2011, 09:54 AM
seriously? ever hear of TARP? dude your reaching deep. did you take your stupid pills this morning? awaiting another nonsensical trite talking point......


Seriously? Ever hear of Greece?

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 09:58 AM
Seriously? Ever hear of Greece?

no. never heard of it. please tell me about it.

jk the sooner fan
7/8/2011, 09:59 AM
Seriously? Ever hear of Greece?

you're wasting your time - spend it on something else

3rdgensooner
7/8/2011, 10:00 AM
I am expecting new and creative arguments in this thread. Give it me, people!

jk the sooner fan
7/8/2011, 10:01 AM
Give it me, people!

me tarzan, you jane

Peach Fuzz
7/8/2011, 10:02 AM
you're wasting your time - spend it on something else

I'll just spend it on rolling joints and using my food stamps.. thanks for buying them btw :)

REDREX
7/8/2011, 10:02 AM
seriously? ever hear of TARP? dude your reaching deep. did you take your stupid pills this morning? awaiting another nonsensical trite talking point......--- Anyone that believes that taking resources from the productive sector and having it spent by the non productive sector AKA the Gov't is good for business and job growth has overdosed on stupid pills

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 10:03 AM
I am expecting new and creative arguments in this thread. Give it me, people!

obama is a socialist muslim. and hates 'merica. and businesses too. star spangled angled hatin muslim!!!!!!

bigfatjerk
7/8/2011, 10:05 AM
seriously? ever hear of TARP? dude your reaching deep. did you take your stupid pills this morning? awaiting another nonsensical trite talking point......

Bush was a big government liberal that for some reason maybe it was because he was an R the democrats hate. I don't really know why because he was basically one of them.

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 10:05 AM
--- Anyone that believes that taking resources from the productive sector and having it spent by the non productive sector AKA the Gov't is good for business and job growth has overdosed on stupid pills

dude!!! huh? what the hell are you trying to say? i need a translator. there's a productive sector? non productive gov? huh? too complex for me to handle.

3rdgensooner
7/8/2011, 10:06 AM
obama is a socialist muslim. and hates 'merica. and businesses too. star spangled angled hatin muslim!!!!!!That is not very creative. Come on, Plimit, work with me!

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 10:06 AM
Bush was a big government liberal that for some reason maybe it was because he was an R the democrats hate. I don't really know why because he was basically one of them.

DUDE!!!!!!!!!! what the hellcrap is going on? am i still drunk from last night?

tommieharris91
7/8/2011, 10:19 AM
Bush was a big government liberal that for some reason maybe it was because he was an R the democrats hate. I don't really know why because he was basically one of them.

If W was a lib then every president since George Washington was between moderate and socialistcommunistliberalfascist.

3rdgensooner
7/8/2011, 10:27 AM
If W was a lib then every president since George Washington was between moderate and socialistcommunistliberalfascist.You know who else was a socialistcommunistliberalfascist?

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 10:34 AM
You know who else was a socialistcommunistliberalfascist?

Jesus?

tommieharris91
7/8/2011, 10:34 AM
You know who else was a socialistcommunistliberalfascist?

I'm guessing Hitler, but it could be Mao. Or maybe Alexander the Great.

Adrian
7/8/2011, 10:34 AM
You know who else was a socialistcommunistliberalfascist?

Aldebaran?

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 10:37 AM
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/unemploy1981vs200814.jpg

JohnnyMack
7/8/2011, 10:39 AM
eventually somebody will figure out that private industry has shipped all the jobs overseas and the unions have priced themselves out of existence

until then......

FTFY

Next up...

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/randoEMS/road_6_lg.jpg

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 10:44 AM
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/unemploy1981vs200814.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/2dspwly.jpg

3rdgensooner
7/8/2011, 10:44 AM
Jesus?


I'm guessing Hitler, but it could be Mao. Or maybe Alexander the Great.


Aldebaran?Spek sent for the posterliciousness.

And here are the scariest job charts ever:

http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/4e17234c49e2aec272000000/chart-of-the-day-the-scariest-jobs-chart-ever-july-2011.jpg
(http://www.businessinsider.com/details-from-the-awful-june-june-jobs-report-2011-7)
http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/4e1712edcadcbba25f030000-595-356/chart.jpg
(http://www.businessinsider.com/details-from-the-awful-june-june-jobs-report-2011-7)

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 10:48 AM
Things are not looking good...

Unemployment on the rise....auto sales may be up 7% or so from last year but sales have been declining since Jan...

Industrial electrical use still at far lower levels then pre recession...

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/iindelecproduction.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/totalvehiclesales16.jpg

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 10:48 AM
http://i51.tinypic.com/2dspwly.jpg

Then ignore the f'n charts if you don't like em...

REDREX
7/8/2011, 10:50 AM
Then ignore the f'n charts if you don't like em...---I like your charts Phil----

jkjsooner
7/8/2011, 10:52 AM
--- Anyone that believes that taking resources from the productive sector and having it spent by the non productive sector AKA the Gov't is good for business and job growth has overdosed on stupid pills

So has anyone who thinks that the housing bubble and financial meltdown was Obama's fault.

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 10:54 AM
Then ignore the f'n charts if you don't like em...

Charts make us know stuff.

http://i56.tinypic.com/swcxhk.jpg

jkjsooner
7/8/2011, 10:54 AM
Bush was a big government liberal that for some reason maybe it was because he was an R the democrats hate. I don't really know why because he was basically one of them.

For starters, he had a fascination for deregulation which helped to create the mess we're in right now.

These are the same policies that Clinton pushed which makes me wonder why so many Democrats like Clinton. When it comes to economics Clinton was pretty darn conservative (universal healthcare which never went anywhere aside).

okie52
7/8/2011, 10:55 AM
So has anyone who thinks that the housing bubble and financial meltdown was Obama's fault.

At what point does Obama own the economy?

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 10:57 AM
Spek sent for the posterliciousness.

And here are the scariest job charts ever:

http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/4e17234c49e2aec272000000/chart-of-the-day-the-scariest-jobs-chart-ever-july-2011.jpg
(http://www.businessinsider.com/details-from-the-awful-june-june-jobs-report-2011-7)
http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/4e1712edcadcbba25f030000-595-356/chart.jpg
(http://www.businessinsider.com/details-from-the-awful-june-june-jobs-report-2011-7)

1981-1983 was just as bad...if not worse...you never seem to hear about how bad things were at that time since this is "THE WORST RECESSION SINCE THE DEPRESSION"...on that chart if you stack the 1980 recession on top of the 1981 recession the drop would be similar...GDP did not grow for nearly 3 years, a longer time than the current recession...interest rates were about 10% and climbed upwards of 20%...The entire savings and loan industry went belly up...

The current administration wants things to sound as bad as possible so they can attempt the deflect the criticism....

REDREX
7/8/2011, 10:57 AM
So has anyone who thinks that the housing bubble and financial meltdown was Obama's fault.---Was it in large part due to Gov't borrowing rules and Freddie and Fannie buying every loan ?

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 10:58 AM
---I like your charts Phil----

Thank you...

You get more accurate data from me than you do from our leadership in DC....

MrJimBeam
7/8/2011, 10:58 AM
obama is a socialist muslim. and hates 'merica. and businesses too. star spangled angled hatin muslim!!!!!!

I don't think he's any of those things. I do think he's woefully unqualified for the office he holds. He was 3 years ago and he is today. And his advisors are equally unqualified. Either that or he refuses to listen. It's a disaster now. For being "the smartest President we've ever had" it sure is taking a long time to grow into his job. I have serious doubts he will be held accountable though, for obvious reasons.

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 11:05 AM
So has anyone who thinks that the housing bubble and financial meltdown was Obama's fault.

Every administration since at least Bush 1 has a big hand in the bubble...Clinton and his advisers were warned about a possible meltdown...in fact they had LTCM go under because of the same speculation that caused the current meltdown....but Greenspan and Clinton's Working Group believed that this was not a problem so they recommended to Clinton that we do nothing...

A little taste for ya...

Yes, I got a call from the Treasury Department probably the weekend that it nearly collapsed. This was in actually September '98. And I was told that the very large hedge fund was almost collapsing, that it had $1.25 trillion in notional value of over-the-counter derivatives, and it only had $4 billion in capital to support that enormous investment, and that the markets had turned against it, ... so that it was going to default in a very major way, leaving the counterparties in the derivatives contracts -- who happened to be the big OTC derivatives dealers -- in the lurch in a major way. And I was told that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York was trying to facilitate an arrangement whereby the large over-the-counter derivatives dealers took over LTCM by buying it out.

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/interviews/born.html#ixzz1RWwpCUVN

dwarthog
7/8/2011, 11:06 AM
i was wondering how long it would take for the pseudo conservatives to go. team. fight. win. and do the touchdown dance. i've said it 100 times, employment is not coming back until we find another bubble. america is a bubble economy and if obama is lucky enough to stumble across one, 9% will be the norm. what i want to know is why the ADP report gets so much market reaction. they missed the mark is a big way.

ADP does the payroll for some 500,000 + companies and thus as a fairly good idea of changes to employment numbers from month to month.

The numbers are constantly being revised, and the reason this particular set of numbers is so bad is that the previous months numbers were adjusted downward.

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 11:08 AM
The Warning should be a mandatory watch for everybody...

tommieharris91
7/8/2011, 11:11 AM
ADP does the payroll for some 500,000 + companies and thus as a fairly good idea of changes to employment numbers from month to month.

The numbers are constantly being revised, and the reason this particular set of numbers is so bad is that the previous months numbers were adjusted downward.

Check the bls.gov numbers. They're telling a different story.

sappstuf
7/8/2011, 11:15 AM
Obama on the economy this morning.


I am ready to roll up my sleeves over the next several weeks and months

Hey numbnuts, how long have you been president??

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 11:19 AM
At what point does Obama own the economy?

september 2008. or whatever low point you would like. you choose and we'll just go from there.

okie52
7/8/2011, 11:20 AM
Obama on the economy this morning.



Hey numbnuts, how long have you been president??

Hmmm. Obama knows he could add thousands of jobs, tax revenues, and royalty income by allowing offshore drilling...not to mention reducing our dependence on foreign oil. Yet an obvious solution is ignored. But he isn't an ideologue.

dwarthog
7/8/2011, 11:22 AM
Check the bls.gov numbers. They're telling a different story.

So whose do you like best?

ADP seems to be painting a rosier picture.

okie52
7/8/2011, 11:22 AM
september 2008. or whatever low point you would like. you choose and we'll just go from there.

Or maybe not until January 2013...assuming that is a high point that would be acceptable to his minions.

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 11:24 AM
obama needs to find some esoteric section of the economy and dereg the dotsh*t out of it. then figure out away to leverage it to the fullest. then provide certain tax breaks for just a select few, step on it and sell it on the street corner. then we can all be happy with our 2.3 kids, suv and mcmansions. the american dream will be alive and well once again.

diverdog
7/8/2011, 11:26 AM
Maybe someday Barack and the big Gov't lovers will figuire out that more Gov't has always hurt business and job growth

Red housing drives the economy. You will not lower unemployment until that market sorts itself out and that will be years.

oumartin
7/8/2011, 11:28 AM
Obama was pretty busy killing Bin Laden. Cut the guy some slack.

He's Black
He's Dem
If he were gay he'd would have already achieved world peace

sappstuf
7/8/2011, 11:28 AM
More chart goodness on the effectivness of the stimulus plan..

http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/StimulusJobsJPG_0.jpg

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 11:29 AM
Or maybe not until January 2013...assuming that is a high point that would be acceptable to his minions.

with the cyclical nature of things i dont think you want that date. could be a nightmare for you. there would be no more fear and loathing.

3rdgensooner
7/8/2011, 11:32 AM
Just for fun, I'm going to add this to the mix:


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/profit-chart.JPG

okie52
7/8/2011, 11:34 AM
with the cyclical nature of things i dont think you want that date. could be a nightmare for you. there would be no more fear and loathing.

Why? You don't think Obama is going to win in 2012? Are these your "good years", free from fear and loathing?

Now just when does Obama own the economy...or in your world does he ever?

sappstuf
7/8/2011, 11:34 AM
Hmmm. Obama knows he could add thousands of jobs, tax revenues, and royalty income by allowing offshore drilling...not to mention reducing our dependence on foreign oil. Yet an obvious solution is ignored. But he isn't an ideologue.

Pelosi told us that Obamacare would create 400K jobs "almost immediately".

ELcgS9gTKhU

I wonder which country they were created in, because it obviously wasn't here...

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 11:34 AM
september 2008. or whatever low point you would like. you choose and we'll just go from there.

I will say several things...

He hasn't done a very good job...

As far as the stimulus they rushed around and put together a shotgun approach instead of dealing out enough short term capital to keep things out of the ditch and taking a little extra time to put together a plan that made sense....

Anybody that has ever worked in construction or manufacturing knew that those "Shovel Ready" jobs were not going to happen overnight...Obama was stunned when job creation from the stimulus took to long...

They spent far too much on social services and far too little on those "Shovel Ready" jobs...it might have taken a year to get them moving but at least they would have created some additional short term movement in jobs...

He is damn good at throwing the dead cat out on the table and short on putting his own plans out for everyone to see..he has a f'n army of people to put together his plan...yet he has none...I am leaning to the camp that he leads from behind...

It has taken him how many years to roll up his sleeves and get to work?

I have the two recession on my chart to show past trends...this economy is far larger than it was in 1981 and will take a longer time to turn around...the length of the recession does not surprise me...though the trends of the last 6 months do trouble me somewhat...

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 11:36 AM
obama needs to find some esoteric section of the economy and dereg the dotsh*t out of it. then figure out away to leverage it to the fullest. then provide certain tax breaks for just a select few, step on it and sell it on the street corner. then we can all be happy with our 2.3 kids, suv and mcmansions. the american dream will be alive and well once again.

You are a hard guy to figure out...

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 11:36 AM
Red housing drives the economy. You will not lower unemployment until that market sorts itself out and that will be years.

Does blue housing drive the economy?

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 11:37 AM
Sorry, DD, I am the worlds worst at punctuation....I just couldn't resist...

jk the sooner fan
7/8/2011, 11:40 AM
http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2009/11/oilrock.jpg

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 11:41 AM
What is your point...why are trying so hard to be a dick?

diverdog
7/8/2011, 11:41 AM
Thank you...

You get more accurate data from me than you do from our leadership in DC....

Phil:

Unemployment is only part of the problem. The entire economic system was not in danger in 1981-1983. The dow was down 6% in 1st quarter 1982 compared to 19% in the 1st quarter 2008. Savings was 11.2% in 1982 vs 3.2% in 08. Household debt has doubled in that time. We lost something like 780000 jobs in 1982 vs 2974000 in 2008. That is twice as severe as 1982. On top of all that we were not dealing with two wars, $14 trillion dollar debt and a lack of commercial credit.

diverdog
7/8/2011, 11:43 AM
Does blue housing drive the economy?

Smart ***!

dwarthog
7/8/2011, 11:43 AM
Obama on the economy this morning.



Hey numbnuts, how long have you been president??


Obama, State of the Union speech, 2010.


But I realize that for every success story, there are other stories, of men and women who wake up with the anguish of not knowing where their next paycheck will come from; who send out resumes week after week and hear nothing in response. That is why jobs must be our number one focus in 2010, and that is why I am calling for a new jobs bill tonight.

diverdog
7/8/2011, 11:45 AM
Sorry, DD, I am the worlds worst at punctuation....I just couldn't resist...

I am using my iPhone between business calls.

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 11:48 AM
Why? You don't think Obama is going to win in 2012? Are these your "good years", free from fear and loathing?

Now just when does Obama own the economy...or in your world does he ever?

he can own it now for all i care. i have a large degree of apathy for the oval office no matter who uses it. it was bought and paid for long ago. he can wear his stimulus package like a "thorny crown". he can take his obamacare shove it. i believe that if these things never passed the employment numbers would still look the same. we need a god damn bubble and we need it now!!! if he can help create one, i will give him full ownership and much respect. as long a i can identify it early and find a security to trade it. until then have faith in helicopter ben. lean long and prosper.

CrimsonCream
7/8/2011, 11:53 AM
They spent far too much on social services and far too little on those "Shovel Ready" jobs...it might have taken a year to get them moving but at least they would have created some additional short term movement in jobs...

But..but...but don't forget all those "saved" jobs they touted.

You would think that at some point Americans would get tired of his constant lies and bullsh!t. Excluding the brown banana eaters (and there's a lot) people simply don't believe this guy anymore.

He's got a bullsh!t excuse for everything. He accepts no blame or responsiblity for anything but wants credit for everything.

Bush's fault. The Stimulus wasn't big enough. The Economy would have neen a lot worse if we had done nothing. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Yeah, yeah, the guy that got bin Laden. What President would want to be the guy that had bin Laden cornered and didn't pull the trigger?

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 11:58 AM
Phil:

Unemployment is only part of the problem. The entire economic system was not in danger in 1981-1983. The dow was down 6% in 1st quarter 1982 compared to 19% in the 1st quarter 2008. Savings was 11.2% in 1982 vs 3.2% in 08. Household debt has doubled in that time. We lost something like 780000 jobs in 1982 vs 2974000 in 2008. That is twice as severe as 1982. On top of all that we were not dealing with two wars, $14 trillion dollar debt and a lack of commercial credit.

DD...we had a much larger single drop during the 08 recession...no doubt about it...

In the 80's we had just as severe a drop but it happened over a longer time frame...

The fed spent as much in stimulus in the 80's as a percent of GDP as we have for the 08 recession...in the 80's we nearly averaged spending 23% of GDP over a 6 year period...

See Table 1.2...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

Chrysler was going to go BK without a bailout and loan promises from the Fed...

The S&L bailouts and bankruptcy's probably cut upwards of a half trillion dollars through the decade...that would be at least a trillion in today's economy...

An oil shock also reared it's ugly head...

There were different problems but just because the two recessions were not caused by exactly the same thing does not mean that the earlier recession could not have led to a nation wide crises...

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 12:02 PM
Keep going guys! You're just about to uncover that "smoking gun" moment when Bush (a double-secret liberal agent) handed a dossier off to Obama containing details on the liberal (colluding with the Muslims and gays) plot to continue undermining real, hard-working, patriotic 'Mericans.

GKeeper316
7/8/2011, 12:07 PM
eventually somebody will figure out that private industry creates jobs and not the government

until then......

the only jobs private industry is creating in america right now are low wage service industry jobs.

you get laid off because your self sustaining career position was shipped off to india, your unemployment has just run out, and now you're knocked into a life of long hours of manual labor for a wage that doesn't even cover your bills.

good job, private industry! we can all be hotel maids and bank tellers!

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 12:09 PM
Keep going guys! You're just about to uncover that "smoking gun" moment when Bush (a double-secret liberal agent) handed a dossier off to Obama containing details on the liberal (colluding with the Muslims and gays) plot to continue undermining real, hard-working, patriotic 'Mericans.

What is your problem? A few of us here are trying to have a civilized discussion...

A subject in which you seemingly have little knowledge...

JohnnyMack
7/8/2011, 12:10 PM
the only jobs private industry is creating in america right now are low wage service industry jobs.

you get laid off because your self sustaining career position was shipped off to india, your unemployment has just run out, and now you're knocked into a life of long hours of manual labor for a wage that doesn't even cover your bills.

good job, private industry! we can all be hotel maids and bank tellers!

America! ****...yeah?

tommieharris91
7/8/2011, 12:18 PM
What is your problem? A few of us here are trying to have a civilized discussion...

A subject in which you seemingly have little knowledge...

This hasn't been a civil discussion since the first page.

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 12:19 PM
the only jobs private industry is creating in america right now are low wage service industry jobs.

you get laid off because your self sustaining career position was shipped off to india, your unemployment has just run out, and now you're knocked into a life of long hours of manual labor for a wage that doesn't even cover your bills.

good job, private industry! we can all be hotel maids and bank tellers!

That is a big concern...

Once we opened up our markets to cheap labor our manufacturing base was going to be under pressure...

The consumer is so focused on cost that companies have to do everything to compete with those much cheaper imports...

US companies have three choices...they have already milked as much as they can out of waste reduction and efficiency and have little room to save in those areas...of the three possible choices which do you choose?

1. US manufacturing could do nothing and risk going out of business...

2. US manufacturing could have gotten US wages in line with off shore producers...

3. Ship jobs overseas...

We all must realize the old smokestack industry in the US, the tire builders and car plant employees, are now competing with Seoul and Beijing instead of the company down the street...

We have always been good at original design and trend setting...future job growth will come from new areas instead of heavy industry...

With current trade laws our heavy industry base will continue to slide...it is inevitable...

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 12:21 PM
This hasn't been a civil discussion since the first page.

There are a bunch of dicks on board but there are a couple of us that have some things to talk about...

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 12:26 PM
What is your problem? A few of us here are trying to have a civilized discussion...

A subject in which you seemingly have little knowledge...

Even though they're librul, god-hating homos Johnny Mack and gkeeper have the only posts that anyone should pay attention to in this thread.


eventually somebody will figure out that private industry has shipped all the jobs overseas and the unions have priced themselves out of existence

until then......


the only jobs private industry is creating in america right now are low wage service industry jobs.

you get laid off because your self sustaining career position was shipped off to india, your unemployment has just run out, and now you're knocked into a life of long hours of manual labor for a wage that doesn't even cover your bills.

good job, private industry! we can all be hotel maids and bank tellers!

This is what you continue to gloss over. Corporate globalization has marginalized the average American worker. This is is the natural evolution of our beloved capitalism.

jk the sooner fan
7/8/2011, 12:27 PM
There are a bunch of dicks on board but there are a couple of us that have some things to talk about...

uptight much?

bigfatjerk
7/8/2011, 12:28 PM
Maybe if we get rid of minimum wage we would solve that problem. Or make min wage dictated by employment instead of raising it every couple years like we do now. If you have a lot of people getting unemployed, lower min wage and it'll allow companies to afford to hire more.

3rdgensooner
7/8/2011, 12:29 PM
I'm deeply hurt that no one gave a ****e about my corporate profits graphic.


*storms off*

tommieharris91
7/8/2011, 12:31 PM
Maybe if we get rid of minimum wage we would solve that problem. Or make min wage dictated by employment instead of raising it every couple years like we do now. If you have a lot of people getting unemployed, lower min wage and it'll allow companies to afford to hire more.

Let's make 60 hours a normal work week while we're at it.

jk the sooner fan
7/8/2011, 12:32 PM
I'm deeply hurt that no one gave a ****e about my corporate profits graphic.


*storms off*

i posted a rock and roll graph and got called a dick for it

i just wanted to post a graph

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 12:32 PM
I'm deeply hurt that no one gave a ****e about my corporate profits graphic.


*storms off*

I have been eyeballing it...but the jerks in the thread pulled me off track...

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 12:35 PM
Even though they're librul, god-hating homos Johnny Mack and gkeeper have the only posts that anyone should pay attention to in this thread.





This is what you continue to gloss over. Corporate globalization has marginalized the average American worker. This is is the natural evolution of our beloved capitalism.

You are blaming capitalism because other developing countries have lower wages and our political leadership agreed to trade laws that allowed the low cost countries to have a significant advantage?

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 12:37 PM
Even though they're librul, god-hating homos Johnny Mack and gkeeper have the only posts that anyone should pay attention to in this thread.





This is what you continue to gloss over. Corporate globalization has marginalized the average American worker. This is is the natural evolution of our beloved capitalism.

somebody gets it. and people think things are going to go back to the way they were. and one man can stop it this progression of globalization. a german company just bought the new york stock exchange for crying out loud.

REDREX
7/8/2011, 12:37 PM
Red housing drives the economy. You will not lower unemployment until that market sorts itself out and that will be years.Very True

GKeeper316
7/8/2011, 12:38 PM
This is what you continue to gloss over. Corporate globalization has marginalized the average American worker. This is is the natural evolution of our beloved capitalism.

wouldn't be a problem if we didn't spend an inordinate percentage of our wages on shelter and energy. real estate costs and energy costs are what is killing us. this is why folks can't afford thier houses.

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 12:39 PM
You are blaming capitalism because other developing countries have lower wages and our political leadership agreed to trade laws that allowed the low cost countries to have a significant advantage?


Read what I said again. This time, slowly.

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 12:40 PM
Maybe if we get rid of minimum wage we would solve that problem. Or make min wage dictated by employment instead of raising it every couple years like we do now. If you have a lot of people getting unemployed, lower min wage and it'll allow companies to afford to hire more.

yeah....that's the ticket. that would work wonders. and keep lowering taxes too right? then it would all just trickle down like one great golden shower.

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 12:43 PM
Just for fun, I'm going to add this to the mix:


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/profit-chart.JPG

A lot of factors can contribute to the variations of the graph...

National income is down with so many people laid off...that would enhance the current climb...

Profits are currently up since hiring is at a snails pace and the current workers are doing double duty....and they are not going to hire until there is demand...and they are not going to hire as long as there is uncertainty (taxes, healthcare, fuel prices) in the markets...

The best thing our leadership could do is to kick all those crutches that business is using...

Pass an energy policy so everyone will know what will happen to fuel costs in the future...

Pass the budget so they will know what taxes will be in the future...and what deductions are still available...

Companies do not like uncertainty...and we have nothing but uncertainty in our current financial situation...

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 12:43 PM
Very True

if you find this to be very true, why all the teen agnst toward obama and employment?

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 12:47 PM
When you said "beloved capitalism" it seemed to me you are not a fan of capitalism....

Sorry if I read ya wrong...

Ike
7/8/2011, 12:53 PM
A lot of factors can contribute to the variations of the graph...

National income is down with so many people laid off...that would enhance the current climb...

Profits are currently up since hiring is at a snails pace and the current workers are doing double duty....and they are not going to hire until there is demand...and they are not going to hire as long as there is uncertainty (taxes, healthcare, fuel prices) in the markets...

The best thing our leadership could do is to kick all those crutches that business is using...

Pass an energy policy so everyone will know what will happen to fuel costs in the future...

Pass the budget so they will know what taxes will be in the future...and what deductions are still available...

Companies do not like uncertainty...and we have nothing but uncertainty in our current financial situation...

I kind of agree with you on the uncertainty, but I wonder...in the near term, are companies more uncertain about public policy, or about where demand for their goods and services will come from?

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 01:01 PM
I kind of agree with you on the uncertainty, but I wonder...in the near term, are companies more uncertain about public policy, or about where demand for their goods and services will come from?



Probably more about demand at the current time...

The average Joe was tapped out a few years ago and now they are scared...

He has been paying down debt at a fast pace (or at least they had been the last I looked) so instead of buying goods they are paying down the CC balance...

The folks in DC need to look at all the excuses and kick them out from under them...

No energy policy? Here is it...now hire people...
Questions about taxes and spending? Here is the budget...now hire people...

You kick out all the excuses and you will quickly discover what the true problem is...and we have plenty of them without the excuses...

JohnnyMack
7/8/2011, 01:11 PM
Probably more about demand at the current time...

The average Joe was tapped out a few years ago and now they are scared...

He has been paying down debt at a fast pace (or at least they had been the last I looked) so instead of buying goods they are paying down the CC balance...

The folks in DC need to look at all the excuses and kick them out from under them...

No energy policy? Here is it...now hire people...
Questions about taxes and spending? Here is the budget...now hire people...

You kick out all the excuses and you will quickly discover what the true problem is...and we have plenty of them without the excuses...

So the blame lies on the shoulders of Washington? The private sector will do the right thing if we just get out of their way?

bigfatjerk
7/8/2011, 01:15 PM
So the blame lies on the shoulders of Washington? The private sector will do the right thing if we just get out of their way?
Washington doesn't create jobs very well in this country. Maybe it creates jobs better for other countries. Private sector creates jobs and always has in this country. The only other time in history we had a central government that didn't believe this was in the 30s and 40s. That worked out. Our last 2 presidents have pretty much been the same as those Hoover and FDR so far.

OutlandTrophy
7/8/2011, 01:23 PM
the only jobs private industry is creating in america right now are low wage service industry jobs.

you get laid off because your self sustaining career position was shipped off to india, your unemployment has just run out, and now you're knocked into a life of long hours of manual labor for a wage that doesn't even cover your bills.

good job, private industry! we can all be hotel maids and bank tellers!

wrong.

wrong as 2 boys making out.

I've hired 6 people in the past two weeks that will be making over $100,000+ per year after their 6 month trainee time when they will be paid a total of roughly $30,000 for that 6 months.

I have a few guys that pull in well over $20,000 per month.

sooner_born_1960
7/8/2011, 01:24 PM
Where is your office, again?

Ike
7/8/2011, 01:25 PM
Probably more about demand at the current time...

The average Joe was tapped out a few years ago and now they are scared...

He has been paying down debt at a fast pace (or at least they had been the last I looked) so instead of buying goods they are paying down the CC balance...

The folks in DC need to look at all the excuses and kick them out from under them...

No energy policy? Here is it...now hire people...
Questions about taxes and spending? Here is the budget...now hire people...

You kick out all the excuses and you will quickly discover what the true problem is...and we have plenty of them without the excuses...


OK...I get your point. I wonder though if there is not a simpler answer that nobody wants to talk about. I haven't thought it through too much so apply appropriate grains of salt, but it would seem to me that if we were to actually enact policies that were truly inflationary (in other words, that would lead to wage inflation as well as price inflation...not just price inflation), that the problem of the average joes debt would kind of solve itself somewhat on it's own. An inflationary environment would tend to lower the real value of the average joes debt, thus making it easier for him to pay off, no? Granted, the debt holders lose in this scenario, but do they not stand to lose more if they are left holding debt that can't be paid back at all and/or houses that nobody will buy?

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 01:28 PM
wrong.

wrong as 2 boys making out.

I've hired 6 people in the past two weeks that will be making over $100,000+ per year after their 6 month trainee time when they will be paid a total of roughly $30,000 for that 6 months.

I have a few guys that pull in well over $20,000 per month.

anecdotal story to make yourself feel better. your hiring crusade is falling short of globalization prevention.

OutlandTrophy
7/8/2011, 01:30 PM
Nope. Some assclown said the only jobs were low paying jobs. I showed him that that simply is not true.

Do you understand that?

GKeeper316
7/8/2011, 01:32 PM
wrong.

wrong as 2 boys making out.

I've hired 6 people in the past two weeks that will be making over $100,000+ per year after their 6 month trainee time when they will be paid a total of roughly $30,000 for that 6 months.

I have a few guys that pull in well over $20,000 per month.

sales, right?

OutlandTrophy
7/8/2011, 01:32 PM
as usual, wrong again. If nothing else at least you're consistent.

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 01:32 PM
So the blame lies on the shoulders of Washington? The private sector will do the right thing if we just get out of their way?

It was a joint effort...

it is human nature to cross the line in the sand...

Everyday we will go a few miles over the speed limit...there is a risk of getting pulled over but it is slight...

If we decided to place a patrol car every mile down the side of every road and threatened to have a no tolerance policy we would see a decline in speeders...

Or...

If we pulled every cop off the highways and told drivers that there would be no patrols, what would happen? We would have some people driving a 100 mph...

We can't afford to have cops every mile...and we wouldn't think of eliminating the patrol cars...

So you try to find a happy medium...

Same way in business...you must have regulations to keep them from driving 100 mph...but you damn sure don't want them driving at 1 mph...

It sounds like you want US companies to compete with off shore competition while using a higher cost basis...yet you want to allow the off shore producers to ship inexpensive product into the US by using the same cheap labor that you don't want US companies to use...

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 01:33 PM
Nope. Some assclown said the only jobs were low paying jobs. I showed him that that simply is not true.

Do you understand that?

I think the assclown's point was that these positions are not necessarily there for the taking for everyone that is unemployed.

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 01:33 PM
wrong.

wrong as 2 boys making out.

I've hired 6 people in the past two weeks that will be making over $100,000+ per year after their 6 month trainee time when they will be paid a total of roughly $30,000 for that 6 months.

I have a few guys that pull in well over $20,000 per month.

What industry?

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 01:38 PM
It was a joint effort...

it is human nature to cross the line in the sand...

Everyday we will go a few miles over the speed limit...there is a risk of getting pulled over but it is slight...

If we decided to place a patrol car every mile down the side of every road and threatened to have a no tolerance policy we would see a decline in speeders...

Or...

If we pulled every cop off the highways and told drivers that there would be no patrols, what would happen? We would have some people driving a 100 mph...

We can't afford to have cops every mile...and we wouldn't think of eliminating the patrol cars...

So you try to find a happy medium...

Same way in business...you must have regulations to keep them from driving 100 mph...but you damn sure don't want them driving at 1 mph...

It sounds like you want US companies to compete with off shore competition while using a higher cost basis...yet you want to allow the off shore producers to ship inexpensive product into the US by using the same cheap labor that you don't want US companies to use...

I think most of us don't really give a damn about which country a company's board of directors cashes their checks in.

EnragedOUfan
7/8/2011, 01:39 PM
Alright, I'm tired of the BS. I have seen not one, not ONE jobs bill created from the House....

They were great to campaign on jobs, but they haven't done anything to create jobs. All I hear is b#tching and moaning on a daily basis about how the President hasn't created jobs. Well, why doesn't our House do something about it? I thought all laws started in the House...I'm still not sure how the President is responsible for the hiring practices of the private sector.

Why not create a "Jobs" bill? If it doesn't pass the Senate, well only then we'll know who is to blame. If it passes the Senate but the President vetoes it, we'll again know who is at fault....

But that hasn't happened and it won't. The current House of Reps will continue to b#tch and moan about the employment numbers all they way until 2012. All this b#tching and moaning is purely politics, and nothing more.....If not, why not create a jobs bill? Rep. Ryan for example clearly has the brains to think of something, so why not? Why not pursue the infrastructre idea?

REDREX
7/8/2011, 01:39 PM
How about Truck Drivers?---- $50M-$70M plus per year plus benifits--- If you have a license and a decent driving record you can get a job in one day

Mongo
7/8/2011, 01:40 PM
wrong.

wrong as 2 boys making out.

I've hired 6 people in the past two weeks that will be making over $100,000+ per year after their 6 month trainee time when they will be paid a total of roughly $30,000 for that 6 months.

I have a few guys that pull in well over $20,000 per month.

<fist pump>

:D

Mongo
7/8/2011, 01:41 PM
and no, I dont want to fist pump you 1TC

GKeeper316
7/8/2011, 01:41 PM
as usual, wrong again. If nothing else at least you're consistent.

hire me. i can do anything but sell stuff.

tommieharris91
7/8/2011, 01:43 PM
How about Truck Drivers?---- $50M-$70M plus per year plus benifits--- If you have a license and a decent driving record you can get a job in one day

Where can I find me one of these jobs?

REDREX
7/8/2011, 01:45 PM
Where can I find me one of these jobs?---Send me a note and I will send you an application

EnragedOUfan
7/8/2011, 01:48 PM
Where can I find me one of these jobs?

Look on craigslist, there's a crapload of a demand for CDL holders.

OutlandTrophy
7/8/2011, 01:49 PM
hire me. i can do anything but sell stuff.
I don't hire Obama supporters.

REDREX
7/8/2011, 01:50 PM
I don't hire Obama supporters.---I would even hire Obama supporters if they can drive a truck

3rdgensooner
7/8/2011, 01:51 PM
there is over a 90% chance that I will hire you. I can think of only one person that I have interviewed that I have not hired.

I don't hire Obama supporters.
So this will make two people?

OutlandTrophy
7/8/2011, 01:52 PM
There are jobs out there but folks seem to be too picky. A coworker recently moved here from out Lafayette office. His wife just finished her job down there and moved up here. She said that she wouldn't consider any job that had less than 3 weeks of vacation. Really? She was teaching in LA but isn't going to get certified to teach in OK.

???

EnragedOUfan
7/8/2011, 01:54 PM
I don't hire Obama supporters.

Maybe you could enlighten me on how the President will create jobs when everything in congress begins in the House of Representatives, which is GOP controlled? Screw the President's veto power and the Democrat controlled Senate, I'm just curious how things will change when nothing has been created in the House?

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 01:54 PM
Someone should tell her there's $50M a year trucking driving jobs in these parts.

JohnnyMack
7/8/2011, 01:57 PM
It sounds like you want US companies to compete with off shore competition while using a higher cost basis...yet you want to allow the off shore producers to ship inexpensive product into the US by using the same cheap labor that you don't want US companies to use...

When did I ever say anything close to resembling that Mr. word putter in mouth guy?

OutlandTrophy
7/8/2011, 02:02 PM
Maybe you could enlighten me on how the President will create jobs when everything in congress begins in the House of Representatives, which is GOP controlled? Screw the President's veto power and the Democrat controlled Senate, I'm just curious how things will change when nothing has been created in the House?

I've seen your other posts. No matter how slowly I type nor how large a font I use, you will not understand so I shant be explaining anything to you!

Position Limit
7/8/2011, 02:03 PM
you're a legend in your own mind.

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 02:05 PM
I think most of us don't really give a damn about which country a company's board of directors cashes their checks in.

I know...the consumer has been very price sensitive for a long period of time...and they should be...

You have talked a lot about what you don't like...what is it you want done?

Condescending Sooner
7/8/2011, 02:07 PM
Maybe you could enlighten me on how the President will create jobs when everything in congress begins in the House of Representatives, which is GOP controlled? Screw the President's veto power and the Democrat controlled Senate, I'm just curious how things will change when nothing has been created in the House?

Who controlled the house when the recession reached it's low point?

OutlandTrophy
7/8/2011, 02:07 PM
you're a legend in your own mind.

Your crush on me is flattering. /wink

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 02:08 PM
When did I ever say anything close to resembling that Mr. word putter in mouth guy?

I am just trying to understand your stance...what do you want done?

JohnnyMack
7/8/2011, 02:08 PM
I am just trying to understand your stance...what do you want done?

If you wanted to understand my stance, you'd have asked for it instead of assuming that you know everything.

Blue
7/8/2011, 02:10 PM
anecdotal story to make yourself feel better. your hiring crusade is falling short of globalization prevention.

The consumer still holds the power. Don't like global companies, don't buy their products. But Americans are too lazy to organize something like that.

Buy local. Put them out of business. But they are probably too big too fail. They'd get another bailout. Yep we're ****ed.

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 02:10 PM
I am just trying to understand your stance...what do you want done?

When Johnny Mack shows you that wide stance, there's only one thing he wants done...

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 02:11 PM
I am so confused...

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 02:13 PM
There has been so much infighting on this thread I don't know who is on what side of the debate...including my own stance...

My Opinion Matters
7/8/2011, 02:14 PM
The consumer still holds the power. Don't like global companies, don't buy their products. But Americans are too lazy to organize something like that.

Buy local. Put them out of business. But they are probably too big too fail. They'd get another bailout. Yep we're ****ed.

I don't think it's that easy. $400 50 inch flat screen tv's come at a price; and that price is 20 cents an hour to a Chinese production worker.

hOUrricane
7/8/2011, 02:15 PM
I've seen your other posts. No matter how slowly I type nor how large a font I use, you will not understand so I shant be explaining anything to you!

Why are you so confrontational?

bigfatjerk
7/8/2011, 02:18 PM
Alright, I'm tired of the BS. I have seen not one, not ONE jobs bill created from the House....


There's probably never been a bill in history of the US that's created a lot of jobs. There's bills that destroy jobs. The stimulus package, TARP for example.

JohnnyMack
7/8/2011, 02:20 PM
Why are you so confrontational?

He's compensating for his tiny weener.

GKeeper316
7/8/2011, 02:26 PM
I don't hire Obama supporters.

you realize that its a federal crime to discriminate against hiring someone because of political beliefs, right?

3rdgensooner
7/8/2011, 02:28 PM
There has been so much infighting on this thread I don't know who is on what side of the debate...including my own stance...
flip-flopper

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 02:29 PM
flip-flopper

I am serious as hell...I don't know who is on my side and who ain't...

OUMallen
7/8/2011, 02:30 PM
I don't hire Obama supporters.

Bigot!!!!!!!! [hairGel]

dwarthog
7/8/2011, 02:39 PM
you realize that its a federal crime to discriminate against hiring someone because of political beliefs, right?

Put in an application with NPR and tell them you are a big Rush Limbaugh fan too.

Guess what will happen.

JohnnyMack
7/8/2011, 02:40 PM
Put in an application with NPR and tell them you are a big Rush Limbaugh fan too.

Guess what will happen.

Put in an application with Chick-Fil-A and tell them you worship Satan.

Guess what will happen.

dwarthog
7/8/2011, 02:41 PM
Put in an application with Chick-Fil-A and tell them you worship Satan.

Guess what will happen.

Is that a political belief?

JohnnyMack
7/8/2011, 02:42 PM
Is that a political belief?

No. But they're still bigots.

OUMallen
7/8/2011, 02:43 PM
Put in an application with Chick-Fil-A and tell them you worship Satan.

Guess what will happen.

Don't tell them you're gay. Unless you don't want to work there.

dwarthog
7/8/2011, 02:44 PM
No. But they're still bigots.

Maybe they will show them how hot the fryer really gets, sort of an early experience for their arrival in hell.

soonercruiser
7/8/2011, 02:52 PM
Don't tell them you're gay. Unless you don't want to work there.

Not true!
If you want to work in the Paseo Arts District, I believe it is a prerequisite.
:D

So, it just depends where you want to work; and how DEEPLY you feel....about it.
:D

soonercruiser
7/8/2011, 02:56 PM
Who controlled the house when the recession reached it's low point?

Who didn't have the guts to tackle the budget or deficit when totally in control for two years???

Like Barney's Frank said...if it that becomes a problem, we'll deal with it then. WTG Dems!!!

GKeeper316
7/8/2011, 02:58 PM
Is that a political belief?

religious beliefs are protected just the same

yermom
7/8/2011, 03:00 PM
wrong.

wrong as 2 boys making out.

I've hired 6 people in the past two weeks that will be making over $100,000+ per year after their 6 month trainee time when they will be paid a total of roughly $30,000 for that 6 months.

I have a few guys that pull in well over $20,000 per month.

so why don't you just hire a few hundred thousand people and solve this whole unemployment problem?

soonercruiser
7/8/2011, 03:11 PM
so why don't you just hire a few hundred thousand people and solve this whole unemployment problem?

If we were to give him $800 Billion; I'll bet he could!
:O

tommieharris91
7/8/2011, 03:18 PM
---Send me a note and I will send you an application

I sent you a request for an application for a $50M/year trucking job that you knew about. "---Grow up" won't cut it.

REDREX
7/8/2011, 03:19 PM
I sent you a request for an application for a $50M/year trucking job that you knew about. "---Grow up" won't cut it.---How about screw yourself

tommieharris91
7/8/2011, 03:25 PM
How about Truck Drivers?---- $50M-$70M plus per year plus benifits--- If you have a license and a decent driving record you can get a job in one day

How about tell me more about these jobs?

diverdog
7/8/2011, 03:28 PM
There's probably never been a bill in history of the US that's created a lot of jobs. There's bills that destroy jobs. The stimulus package, TARP for example.

Do you have facts to back up your BS?

GKeeper316
7/8/2011, 03:41 PM
There's probably never been a bill in history of the US that's created a lot of jobs. There's bills that destroy jobs. The stimulus package, TARP for example.


WPA, dummy.

okie52
7/8/2011, 03:48 PM
I am serious as hell...I don't know who is on my side and who ain't...

In spite of the informative positions to the contrary I,uh...I...I think I am going with your position.

pphilfran
7/8/2011, 03:50 PM
WPA, dummy.


WPA

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/008.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/IMG_0239.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/IMG_0220.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/pphilfran/IMG_0222.jpg

hOUrricane
7/8/2011, 04:32 PM
Not true!
If you want to work in the Paseo Arts District, I believe it is a prerequisite.
:D

So, it just depends where you want to work; and how DEEPLY you feel....about it.
:D

There is a Chick in the Paseo?!?

Mongo
7/8/2011, 04:34 PM
No. But they're still bigots.

mmmm, bigoty chicken

OUInformant
7/8/2011, 05:24 PM
Don't worry about unemployment, we extended the Bush tax cuts? It should take care of things.

-John Boehner

okie52
7/8/2011, 05:26 PM
Don't worry about unemployment, we extended the Bush tax cuts? It should take care of things.

-John Boehner

Evidently Obama agrees.

OUInformant
7/8/2011, 05:32 PM
Evidently Obama agrees.

So does my main man, Karl, a guy who sells hotdogs down here on 6th St. (in Austin) and self-proclaimed economist / historian.

okie52
7/8/2011, 05:37 PM
So does my main man, Karl, a guy who sells hotdogs down here on 6th St. (in Austin) and self-proclaimed economist / historian.

Do you still buy hot dogs from him as well as advice?

sappstuf
7/8/2011, 05:40 PM
Don't worry about unemployment, we extended the Bush tax cuts? It should take care of things.

-John Boehner

Boehner didn't extend the Bush tax cuts... Pelosi, Reid and Obama did.

When Obama signed it, he said;


a substantial victory for middle-class families across the country. They're the ones hardest hit by the recession we've endured. They're the ones who need relief right now.

And


the average middle-class family would have had to pay an extra $3,000 in taxes next year, That wouldn't have just been a blow to them; it would have been a blow to our economy, just as we're climbing out of a devastating recession.

I refused to let that happen. And because we acted, it's not going to. In fact, not only will middle-class Americans avoid a tax increase, but tens of millions of Americans will start the new year off right by opening their first paycheck to see that it's actually larger than the one they get right now.

I can even provide a link...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/16/AR2010121606200.html

okie52
7/8/2011, 05:41 PM
Boehner didn't extend the Bush tax cuts... Pelosi, Reid and Obama did.

When Obama signed it, he said;



And



I can even provide a link...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/16/AR2010121606200.html

I'm leaving it to you Sapp. Have a good weekend!!!

sappstuf
7/8/2011, 05:43 PM
I'm leaving it to you Sapp. Have a good weekend!!!

:(

I was looking forward to a weekend of illegal jokes.. :)

okie52
7/8/2011, 05:44 PM
:(

I was looking forward to a weekend of illegal jokes.. :)

:)

StoopTroup
7/8/2011, 06:23 PM
0:51 :D Ozmct9pBhoU&playnext=1&list=PLF2E5EFE67C30C7D1

JLEW1818
7/8/2011, 06:32 PM
what a worthless **** we have in office

Blue
7/8/2011, 07:25 PM
you realize that its a federal crime to discriminate against hiring someone because of political beliefs, right?

You should report him.

jkm, the stolen pifwafwi
7/8/2011, 07:28 PM
There are jobs out there but folks seem to be too picky. A coworker recently moved here from out Lafayette office. His wife just finished her job down there and moved up here. She said that she wouldn't consider any job that had less than 3 weeks of vacation. Really? She was teaching in LA but isn't going to get certified to teach in OK.

???

So, I had to hire 3 people last month. It was 3 kinds of sucktacular. The absolute worst was the 9 or so teachers that applied. The number of times that I heard "but I have a Master's degree" after I said "You seem very green in how business works" after they said "Well, I'm used to 14 weeks of vacation, but I know in the private sector they don't give that so my minimum is 10 weeks".

GKeeper316
7/8/2011, 07:50 PM
So, I had to hire 3 people last month. It was 3 kinds of sucktacular. The absolute worst was the 9 or so teachers that applied. The number of times that I heard "but I have a Master's degree" after I said "You seem very green in how business works" after they said "Well, I'm used to 14 weeks of vacation, but I know in the private sector they don't give that so my minimum is 10 weeks".

i blame the kids... lazy ****s should be in school year round!

soonercruiser
7/10/2011, 02:14 PM
Did someone say "jobs created"??? :D

http://members.cox.net/franklipsinic/Obama/obama%20jobs%20created.gif

OutlandTrophy
7/10/2011, 03:03 PM
you realize that its a federal crime to discriminate against hiring someone because of political beliefs, right?

simply not true.

How can someone be so wrong so often?

hawaii 5-0
7/10/2011, 03:16 PM
Without reading through this thread, isn't it Socialism where the Government is responsible for giving everyone a job?

I'm not a fan of socialism except at potlucks.

I don't hold Obama responsible, whereas all the big corporations and multi-millionaires getting the nice tax breaks are getting away with huge smiles and fat wallets at everyone's expense.

5-0

Trump/ Warbucks 2012

GKeeper316
7/10/2011, 03:20 PM
Without reading through this thread, isn't it Socialism where the Government is responsible for giving everyone a job?

sort of. you could make the argument in that under a socialist economic system (speaking in the broadest sense of the term) all businesses are at least partially owned by the state, so yes they would be responsible for providing jobs.

keep in mind there's a difference between temporarily nationalizing a company or industry and pure socialism.

champions77
7/10/2011, 09:18 PM
Without reading through this thread, isn't it Socialism where the Government is responsible for giving everyone a job?

I'm not a fan of socialism except at potlucks.

I don't hold Obama responsible, whereas all the big corporations and multi-millionaires getting the nice tax breaks are getting away with huge smiles and fat wallets at everyone's expense.

5-0

Trump/ Warbucks 2012


Why would you not hold Obama responsible? Gosh he enacts class warfare on the very people that he then wants for them to hire additional employees.

During his campaign he promised higher taxes, Cap and Trade (higher taxes), increased regulations and Obamacare. This had the effect of creating uncertainty that we have today. You've heard that businessowners are holding onto billions in capital, not willing to reinvest it or expand their operations? They are convinced that Obama is a public sector guy, not a champion of the private sector. You can see why they've come to this conclusion.

Maybe if Obama had more people in his cabinet that had actually worked in the Private sector.....he would know how to go about improving the economy. And maybe if his first 1 1/2 years in office, he would have made the economy his # 1 priority, instead of cramming down that ill conceived Obamacare, again maybe the economy would be better today.

The other day he laughed about the "shovel ready" projects...that were not so "shovel ready". He had promised this in selling his 1 trillion dollar stimulus package. Another lie? And then he laughs about it?

tommieharris91
7/10/2011, 09:46 PM
Why would you not hold Obama responsible? Gosh he enacts class warfare on the very people that he then wants for them to hire additional employees.

During his campaign he promised higher taxes, Cap and Trade (higher taxes), increased regulations and Obamacare. This had the effect of creating uncertainty that we have today. You've heard that businessowners are holding onto billions in capital, not willing to reinvest it or expand their operations? They are convinced that Obama is a public sector guy, not a champion of the private sector. You can see why they've come to this conclusion.

Maybe if Obama had more people in his cabinet that had actually worked in the Private sector.....he would know how to go about improving the economy. And maybe if his first 1 1/2 years in office, he would have made the economy his # 1 priority, instead of cramming down that ill conceived Obamacare, again maybe the economy would be better today.

The other day he laughed about the "shovel ready" projects...that were not so "shovel ready". He had promised this in selling his 1 trillion dollar stimulus package. Another lie? And then he laughs about it?

Where do you get your talking points from? I think every one of these has been parroted on this board in the past week.

Blue
7/10/2011, 10:17 PM
Where do you get your talking points from? I think every one of these has been parroted on this board in the past week.

It doesn't make it less true.

tommieharris91
7/10/2011, 10:20 PM
It doesn't make it less true.

But each one of them have been discussed ad nauseum.

champions77
7/11/2011, 08:43 AM
Where do you get your talking points from? I think every one of these has been parroted on this board in the past week.

So where am I wrong? Many in charge of hiring people in the private sector just happen to make over 250K, and because of all of the uncertainty this President has created, are not hiring? Why is this concept so hard to understand?

soonerscuba
7/11/2011, 09:13 AM
You've heard that businessowners are holding onto billions in capital, not willing to reinvest it or expand their operations? They are convinced that Obama is a public sector guy, not a champion of the private sector. You can see why they've come to this conclusion.BULLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIII IIITTTTTTTTTTTTTT.

Lack of demand is what is tying down capital. There is no purpose of production if there isn't anyone to buy it. Anecdotal evidence? Sure, I bet you could find some widget maker willing to cop to Obamacare as the reason he stopped hiring widgetmakers, one could just as easily find one to blame Abe Lincoln. How people are buying this fantasy that business leaders are as emo as a depressed teen at a Belle and Sebastian concert is beyond me, and if Obama is anti-business, his enacted policies sure don't seem to reflect that.

IMO, labor is a market like anything else, we had a demand side fueled by unsecured credit that tanked, there the spigot was shut off and people couldn't afford to not afford stuff anymore, basically there was a natural correction in the labor market that couldn't have been stopped by any president.

IndySooner
7/11/2011, 09:23 AM
So where am I wrong? Many in charge of hiring people in the private sector just happen to make over 250K, and because of all of the uncertainty this President has created, are not hiring? Why is this concept so hard to understand?

You didn't answer his question. I thought that was a fair question. Everyone seems to have the same talking points. Where are they coming from? I know we don't have 50 economic geniuses and 50 political geniuses on this board. The points are obviously coming from somewhere.

My Opinion Matters
7/11/2011, 09:26 AM
You didn't answer his question. I thought that was a fair question. Everyone seems to have the same talking points. Where are they coming from? I know we don't have 50 economic geniuses and 50 political geniuses on this board. The points are obviously coming from somewhere.

I thought you might be new here.

champions77
7/11/2011, 09:54 AM
You didn't answer his question. I thought that was a fair question. Everyone seems to have the same talking points. Where are they coming from? I know we don't have 50 economic geniuses and 50 political geniuses on this board. The points are obviously coming from somewhere.

Why should I, it's a really stupid question. Talking points? So someone is not smart enough to analyze a situation and arrive at their own conclusions?
I don't believe you have to be a genius to formulate an opinion in all of this. This is not electrical engineering.

sappstuf
7/11/2011, 10:13 AM
Why should I, it's a really stupid question. Talking points? So someone is not smart enough to analyze a situation and arrive at their own conclusions?
I don't believe you have to be a genius to formulate an opinion in all of this. This is not electrical engineering.


Thank god. I'm colorblind and that just wouldn't turn out well...

OutlandTrophy
7/11/2011, 10:24 AM
you realize that its a federal crime to discriminate against hiring someone because of political beliefs, right?

you realize that you're wrong on this, don't you?

tommieharris91
7/11/2011, 10:26 AM
Why should I, it's a really stupid question. Talking points? So someone is not smart enough to analyze a situation and arrive at their own conclusions?
I don't believe you have to be a genius to formulate an opinion in all of this. This is not electrical engineering.

Chances are that you didn't come to that conclusion on your own.. It was almost certainly influenced by some outsiders.

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 11:06 AM
Where do you get your talking points from? I think every one of these has been parroted on this board in the past week.

Parrroted or not he is correct...

He blasts big business for being greedy and holding onto trillions....then has to turn around and beg them to start hiring...

He blisters those that disagree with any of his policy...then asked them nicely to revamp their stance and help out to get his policy passed...

He has no clue in how to compromise or how to influence people to get things done...

He is so out of tune he and his administration actually thought that "shovel ready" projects would start the next day...

He was proud of the tax increases he promised...he said he would bk a company that built new coal plants...

He leads from behind...points fingers at everybody else...he has divided the country ever further than what it was prior to his election...

I have no confidence in his ability to lead us out of this mess...

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 11:08 AM
You didn't answer his question. I thought that was a fair question. Everyone seems to have the same talking points. Where are they coming from? I know we don't have 50 economic geniuses and 50 political geniuses on this board. The points are obviously coming from somewhere.

Maybe because it is as obvious as the nose on your face...

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 11:09 AM
Chances are that you didn't come to that conclusion on your own.. It was almost certainly influenced by some outsiders.

Chances are that I have come to my own conclusions...I avoid the mainstream media like the plague...

soonerscuba
7/11/2011, 11:16 AM
Parrroted or not he is correct...How? I just don't understand how one marries a nebulous concept like "uncertainty" to unemployment and yokes a president with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge Obama fan, and he isn't a strong leader, but I have serious doubts as to the effectiveness of a president on macromarket hiring practices either up or down.

Ike
7/11/2011, 11:29 AM
How? I just don't understand how one marries a nebulous concept like "uncertainty" to unemployment and yokes a president with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge Obama fan, and he isn't a strong leader, but I have serious doubts as to the effectiveness of a president on macromarket hiring practices either up or down.

Honestly, I think it has more to do with the fact that Obama took his eyes off the economy after the stimulus. You kind of got the idea that after that, his administration simply said "well, we've solved the economy, let's move on to healthcare", and then since the mid terms, partly because congress forced him too, he's been pretty much all focused on the debt/deficit thing. I don't think that there is anyone that seriously believes that solving the debt/deficit issue is going to help the economy in the short run. But the solution could certainly hurt the economy in the short run. Long term, sure, a solution to the debt/deficit issue will help the economy, but in the meantime, the problem de jour should really be all about jobs jobs jobs, and Obama's taken his eye off that ball.

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 11:30 AM
How? I just don't understand how one marries a nebulous concept like "uncertainty" to unemployment and yokes a president with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge Obama fan, and he isn't a strong leader, but I have serious doubts as to the effectiveness of a president on macromarket hiring practices either up or down.

Because business plans ahead...today they are looking at product sales for next year...what product mix....looking at ramping up hiring and production....an actual budget put in place in advance (unlike our leaders in DC)...

If the demand was growing companies would build no matter the uncertainties...but without demand all the other ducks need to be in a row...not only are our ducks not in a row...we ain't even got no ducks...

Today companies don't have a clue about what is coming in the near future...

They are concerned about fuel costs...and since we have no true energy policy they will look at worst case and higher costs...that won't speed up hiring...

They are concerned about tax rates...with current tax credits they might be willing to build even if it is borderline...with the uncertainty with taxes they might hold back to see what is actually coming...

And they damn sure don't know what the changes in health care is going to cost them...

He constantly beats people about the head and shoulders on national tv...and then turns around and wants them to compromise and help out...

To resolve any problem you talk to a lot of people and put a plan in place...you find ways to kick the crutches out from under the complainers...

Bitch about energy prices? Put out a true plan and have it implemented..
Cry about tax uncertainty? Put out a budget...Let the companies know what incentives have been cut...

So a lot of companies are doing the same that I would do if I were in their place...shoot him the finger...

dwarthog
7/11/2011, 11:31 AM
How? I just don't understand how one marries a nebulous concept like "uncertainty" to unemployment and yokes a president with it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge Obama fan, and he isn't a strong leader, but I have serious doubts as to the effectiveness of a president on macromarket hiring practices either up or down.

I am not an Obama fan by any means either and actually agree that is seems somewhat difficult to actually tie something like this off and hang it around his neck as well, HOWEVER, he and his team did state multiple times that if that unemployment would not rise above certain levels, which it did. They also take credit for any positive change in the unemployment numbers as well, even if 1/2 of them come from a McDonald's hiring binge.

IMO, he can't take credit for the upside without taking the hit for the downside.

Sitting in the big chair comes with a lot responsibilities.

As the sign on Harry Truman's desk stated, "The Buck Stop Here"

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 11:31 AM
Honestly, I think it has more to do with the fact that Obama took his eyes off the economy after the stimulus. You kind of got the idea that after that, his administration simply said "well, we've solved the economy, let's move on to healthcare", and then since the mid terms, partly because congress forced him too, he's been pretty much all focused on the debt/deficit thing. I don't think that there is anyone that seriously believes that solving the debt/deficit issue is going to help the economy in the short run. But the solution could certainly hurt the economy in the short run. Long term, sure, a solution to the debt/deficit issue will help the economy, but in the meantime, the problem de jour should really be all about jobs jobs jobs, and Obama's taken his eye off that ball.

I agree...

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 11:33 AM
I am not an Obama fan by any means either and actually agree that is seems somewhat difficult to actually tie something like this off and hang it around his neck as well, HOWEVER, he and his team did state multiple times that if that unemployment would not rise above certain levels, which it did. They also take credit for any positive change in the unemployment numbers as well, even if 1/2 of them come from a McDonald's hiring binge.

IMO, he can't take credit for the upside without taking the hit for the downside.

Sitting in the big chair comes with a lot responsibilities.

As the sign on Harry Truman's desk stated, "The Buck Stop Here"

The plaque on Obama's desk...

"The Buck Stops on Bush's Desk."

sappstuf
7/11/2011, 11:37 AM
Because business plans ahead...today they are looking at product sales for next year...what product mix....looking at ramping up hiring and production....an actual budget put in place in advance (unlike our leaders in DC)...

If the demand was growing companies would build no matter the uncertainties...but without demand all the other ducks need to be in a row...not only are our ducks not in a row...we ain't even got no ducks...

Today companies don't have a clue about what is coming in the near future...

They are concerned about fuel costs...and since we have no true energy policy they will look at worst case and higher costs...that won't speed up hiring...

They are concerned about tax rates...with current tax credits they might be willing to build even if it is borderline...with the uncertainty with taxes they might hold back to see what is actually coming...

And they damn sure don't know what the changes in health care is going to cost them...

He constantly beats people about the head and shoulders on national tv...and then turns around and wants them to compromise and help out...

To resolve any problem you talk to a lot of people and put a plan in place...you find ways to kick the crutches out from under the complainers...

Bitch about energy prices? Put out a true plan and have it implemented..
Cry about tax uncertainty? Put out a budget...Let the companies know what incentives have been cut...

So a lot of companies are doing the same that I would do if I were in their place...shoot him the finger...

Come on phil... When is the last time he did that?

fGxiFgR8wv0&

soonerscuba
7/11/2011, 11:53 AM
Because business plans ahead...today they are looking at product sales for next year...what product mix....looking at ramping up hiring and production....an actual budget put in place in advance (unlike our leaders in DC)...

If the demand was growing companies would build no matter the uncertainties...but without demand all the other ducks need to be in a row...not only are our ducks not in a row...we ain't even got no ducks...

Today companies don't have a clue about what is coming in the near future...

They are concerned about fuel costs...and since we have no true energy policy they will look at worst case and higher costs...that won't speed up hiring...

They are concerned about tax rates...with current tax credits they might be willing to build even if it is borderline...with the uncertainty with taxes they might hold back to see what is actually coming...

And they damn sure don't know what the changes in health care is going to cost them...

He constantly beats people about the head and shoulders on national tv...and then turns around and wants them to compromise and help out...

To resolve any problem you talk to a lot of people and put a plan in place...you find ways to kick the crutches out from under the complainers...

Bitch about energy prices? Put out a true plan and have it implemented..
Cry about tax uncertainty? Put out a budget...Let the companies know what incentives have been cut...

So a lot of companies are doing the same that I would do if I were in their place...shoot him the finger...All of these things are dwarfed by a significant margin to demand, deep down, someone of your comprehension knows this. Businesses take on overhead and productivity during recession, these are maxed right now. Also, all of these points existed without Obama as president, and will be just as true 500 years from now as they are today. Demand is THE driving factor, and it's affected by a global economy and global credit interactions, I just think the billions of moving parts can't be foisted on one person (Bush or Obama). I also seriously doubt smart businesses make it a matter of practice to not hire out of some sort of political protest.

Chuck Bao
7/11/2011, 12:02 PM
Just for fun, I'm going to add this to the mix:


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/profit-chart.JPG

I am just now reading through this thread. That is a most excellent chart, 3rdgensooner, as it clearly illustrates that the big US corporations are not suffering from too high burden of taxation. The big shots are voting themselves huge bonuses as they lay off workers just before Christmas each year to get the full-year tax break. Kudos and spek.



A lot of factors can contribute to the variations of the graph...

National income is down with so many people laid off...that would enhance the current climb...

Profits are currently up since hiring is at a snails pace and the current workers are doing double duty....and they are not going to hire until there is demand...and they are not going to hire as long as there is uncertainty (taxes, healthcare, fuel prices) in the markets...

The best thing our leadership could do is to kick all those crutches that business is using...

Pass an energy policy so everyone will know what will happen to fuel costs in the future...

Pass the budget so they will know what taxes will be in the future...and what deductions are still available...

Companies do not like uncertainty...and we have nothing but uncertainty in our current financial situation...

I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful, pphilfran. I do enjoy reading a lot of your posts.

In this case, I don't think that you clearly understand the economic definition of "National Income". National Income, as I understand it, is basically Gross National Product less indirect taxes (less subsidies) and depreciation of fixed capital.

As I have stated before, our GDP, GNP, National Income calculations and weightings have changed substantially over the last 20 years. The component of worker production is now much less with capital being much more. Obviously, improvements in technology have increased the productivity of our workers and there was the first wave of reduction in work force.

But that same technology transferred to subsidiaries overseas and with new global high-speed communication now very, very cheap (almost free), American workers got hit with the second lay-off whammy.

I don't think as many people saw that second wave coming. I do know for a fact that the international companies who spent billions of dollars launching the communications satellites and laying the global optic fiber network just 10 years ago didn't anticipate how low the pay-off would be through competitive discount pricing.

I really don't think a US energy policy will lessen the uncertainty of future oil prices. Bear in mind that future US dollar exchange rate is part of the price in dollars in the global crude market. If you can forecast either crude prices or dollar exchange rates, you will be the wealthiest man on the planet.

You are right, though, that the uncertainty will persist and that is harming consumer and business confidence. I just don't see a quick fix to unemployment, the economy and the government's rising debt.

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 12:11 PM
All of these things are dwarfed by a significant margin to demand, deep down, someone of your comprehension knows this. Businesses take on overhead and productivity during recession, these are maxed right now. Also, all of these points existed without Obama as president, and will be just as true 500 years from now as they are today. Demand is THE driving factor, and it's affected by a global economy and global credit interactions, I just think the billions of moving parts can't be foisted on one person (Bush or Obama). I also seriously doubt smart businesses make it a matter of practice to not hire out of some sort of political protest.

There is no doubt in my mind that demand is the problem...

I am just saying that when things are in the crapper you don't want to alienate anyone...or add uncertainty...

It is not just Obama...both parties in Congress have as much blame...

I say it once again...you kick out the crutches they are leaning on...you eliminate those uncertainties...

I am not saying it is some sort of political protest...there are far too many questions still unanswered to give companies a reason to expand or hire...

How much confidence does the consumer have with our leadership?

The consumer is voting with their pocketbook...they are paying down debt and saving instead of spending....yet our leadership does not grasp this concept...

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 12:21 PM
I am just now reading through this thread. That is a most excellent chart, 3rdgensooner, as it clearly illustrates that the big US corporations are not suffering from too high burden of taxation. The big shots are voting themselves huge bonuses as they lay off workers just before Christmas each year to get the full-year tax break. Kudos and spek.




I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful, pphilfran. I do enjoy reading a lot of your posts.

In this case, I don't think that you clearly understand the economic definition of "National Income". National Income, as I understand it, is basically Gross National Product less indirect taxes (less subsidies) and depreciation of fixed capital.

As I have stated before, our GDP, GNP, National Income calculations and weightings have changed substantially over the last 20 years. The component of worker production is now much less with capital being much more. Obviously, improvements in technology have increased the productivity of our workers and there was the first wave of reduction in work force.

But that same technology transferred to subsidiaries overseas and with new global high-speed communication now very, very cheap (almost free), American workers got hit with the second lay-off whammy.

I don't think as many people saw that second wave coming. I do know for a fact that the international companies who spent billions of dollars launching the communications satellites and laying the global optic fiber network just 10 years ago didn't anticipate how low the pay-off would be through competitive discount pricing.

I really don't think a US energy policy will lessen the uncertainty of future oil prices. Bear in mind that future US dollar exchange rate is part of the price in dollars in the global crude market. If you can forecast either crude prices or dollar exchange rates, you will be the wealthiest man on the planet.

You are right, though, that the uncertainty will persist and that is harming consumer and business confidence. I just don't see a quick fix to unemployment, the economy and the government's rising debt.

Good points...


I just took a general stab with my income and unemployment statement...demand was low...people got laid off...production dropped along with income...yet profits as a percent of national income climbed...

Taxes have little to do with the whole deal...GDP growth is the key..during Clinton's term profits were good even with higher tax rates (whatever)...that was because of a revolution in the way we did business...computers and PLC machine tool controls....we did more with less and the stock market paid out big money..

Overall, an excellent post, Chuck...

soonerscuba
7/11/2011, 12:22 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that demand is the problem...

I am just saying that when things are in the crapper you don't want to alienate anyone...or add uncertainty...

It is not just Obama...both parties in Congress have as much blame...

I say it once again...you kick out the crutches they are leaning on...you eliminate those uncertainties...

I am not saying it is some sort of political protest...there are far too many questions still unanswered to give companies a reason to expand or hire...

How much confidence does the consumer have with our leadership?

The consumer is voting with their pocketbook...they are paying down debt and saving instead of spending....yet our leadership does not grasp this concept...I just don't think political leadership has that much bearing on business practice in a stable representative democracy, there is certainly room for debate on that point though.

I also have no problem with paying down debt as opposed to spending at the consumer level, even if it pinches, we'll be better off for it.

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 12:24 PM
I just don't think political leadership has that much bearing on business practice in a stable representative democracy, there is certainly room for debate on that point though.

I also have no problem with paying down debt as opposed to spending at the consumer level, even if it pinches, we'll be better off for it.

The consumer is doing the right thing...like you said it will hurt in the short term...

I am just saying that when things are running poorly you don't go around and add a bunch of new crap, or fail to act on old crap...that only complicates the recovery...

Chuck Bao
7/11/2011, 12:39 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that demand is the problem...

I am just saying that when things are in the crapper you don't want to alienate anyone...or add uncertainty...

It is not just Obama...both parties in Congress have as much blame...

I say it once again...you kick out the crutches they are leaning on...you eliminate those uncertainties...

I am not saying it is some sort of political protest...there are far too many questions still unanswered to give companies a reason to expand or hire...

How much confidence does the consumer have with our leadership?

The consumer is voting with their pocketbook...they are paying down debt and saving instead of spending....yet our leadership does not grasp this concept...

I would agree with you, to some extent, 20 years ago. But, the global market genie is out of the bottle and there is no putting it back. We live under very different economics today. All markets - stocks, bonds, commodities, forex - are fast moving with rapid transactions from all over the world. Speed and volume trading has added to the volatility, not lessened it. No one country's government can control them, including the US.

Our economic control has passed from Washington to New York, Chicago and London and the shysters there who are out to make a killing in the markets.

Oh, I guess I now need to credit someone for my beliefs. It would be from reading enough of the so-called "research" produced by some of the big houses and all I can say is WTF? Then, listening to some of the major TV media go out and promote those "WTF" conclusions.

The major problem with analysts today is that they think they were right, if they were right for one week after the call. It doesn't matter after that time frame because they haven't yet updated their view. WTF? It is all about commissions and short-term trading.

The effect on the average person working hard at doing his job and supporting his family be damned.

This is just insane.

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 12:50 PM
It is the new global economy that has gotten us into the mess...

Things have changed significantly over the last decade or two...the US has been slow to realize the changes and we have missed out because of our slow reaction time...

What I am spewing is aimed at the unemployment level in the US and some of the reasons that hiring has been slow, even when companies have money in the bank...

If they thought they could make more money investing it into new facilities and production they would do it in a heartbeat..

But they are not....why?

No demand...WhY?

Bunch of people laid off and a bunch of skeered people paying off debt and increasing savings...

Why are they skeered?

Fear of losing their job...fear of not finding a job...fear of higher future costs due to a variety of reasons...

Why?

Because they don't know what future energy cost will be...and the talk out of DC is that those cost will go up more than expected due to increased taxes and elimination of loopholes (which I mostly tend to support)...they don't know what their income taxes will be...

I will say this...increasing taxes on the well off and moving that wealth to the less well off will not cause an increase in new car sales, home sales, or any other big ticket item...the money will be spent on small ticket items at businesses that pay low wages...for products that are low tech and commodity in nature...

champions77
7/11/2011, 01:04 PM
Parrroted or not he is correct...

He blasts big business for being greedy and holding onto trillions....then has to turn around and beg them to start hiring...

He blisters those that disagree with any of his policy...then asked them nicely to revamp their stance and help out to get his policy passed...

He has no clue in how to compromise or how to influence people to get things done...

He is so out of tune he and his administration actually thought that "shovel ready" projects would start the next day...

He was proud of the tax increases he promised...he said he would bk a company that built new coal plants...

He leads from behind...points fingers at everybody else...he has divided the country ever further than what it was prior to his election...

I have no confidence in his ability to lead us out of this mess...

Solid points Phil. If Obama was as good at "leadership" as he is at "demagoguery" he would be just a bad President instead of a disaster.

Chuck Bao
7/11/2011, 01:05 PM
It is the new global economy that has gotten us into the mess...

Things have changed significantly over the last decade or two...the US has been slow to realize the changes and we have missed out because of our slow reaction time...

What I am spewing is aimed at the unemployment level in the US and some of the reasons that hiring has been slow, even when companies have money in the bank...

If they thought they could make more money investing it into new facilities and production they would do it in a heartbeat..

But they are not....why?

No demand...WhY?

Bunch of people laid off and a bunch of skeered people paying off debt and increasing savings...

Why are they skeered?

Fear of losing their job...fear of not finding a job...fear of higher future costs due to a variety of reasons...

Why?

Because they don't know what future energy cost will be...and the talk out of DC is that those cost will go up more than expected due to increased taxes and elimination of loopholes (which I mostly tend to support)...they don't know what their income taxes will be...

I will say this...increasing taxes on the well off and moving that wealth to the less well off will not cause an increase in new car sales, home sales, or any other big ticket item...the money will be spent on small ticket items at businesses that pay low wages...for products that are low tech and commodity in nature...

I agree 100% with you there.

I think our politicians think insular because our people do. We were all raised on the "can do" spirit. That is what made America so great. We are all sold that from early childhood with the promise of working hard and making good. Maybe, we all won't be millionaires but that American promise was there, at least enough to support a family and a decent standard of living.

We don't need to know about China. We don't need to know about India. Okay, snap test question here, who can name the premier of both countries? Honestly, I don't know either. And, no fair going to Wikipedia.

Ike
7/11/2011, 01:11 PM
I agree 100% with you there.

I think our politicians think insular because our people do. We were all raised on the "can do" spirit. That is what made America so great. We are all sold that from early childhood with the promise of working hard and making good. Maybe, we all won't be millionaires but that American promise was there, at least enough to support a family and a decent standard of living.

We don't need to know about China. We don't need to know about India. Okay, snap test question here, who can name the premier of both countries? Honestly, I don't know either. And, no fair going to Wikipedia.

Hu Jintao. dunno about india. what do I win?

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 01:14 PM
I agree 100% with you there.

I think our politicians think insular because our people do. We were all raised on the "can do" spirit. That is what made America so great. We are all sold that from early childhood with the promise of working hard and making good. Maybe, we all won't be millionaires but that American promise was there, at least enough to support a family and a decent standard of living.

We don't need to know about China. We don't need to know about India. Okay, snap test question here, who can name the premier of both countries? Honestly, I don't know either. And, no fair going to Wikipedia.

China's premier is you...Chuckbao or Jiboa...or something like that...

No idea on India...

Position Limit
7/11/2011, 01:26 PM
I would agree with you, to some extent, 20 years ago. But, the global market genie is out of the bottle and there is no putting it back. We live under very different economics today. All markets - stocks, bonds, commodities, forex - are fast moving with rapid transactions from all over the world. Speed and volume trading has added to the volatility, not lessened it. No one country's government can control them, including the US.

Our economic control has passed from Washington to New York, Chicago and London and the shysters there who are out to make a killing in the markets.

Oh, I guess I now need to credit someone for my beliefs. It would be from reading enough of the so-called "research" produced by some of the big houses and all I can say is WTF? Then, listening to some of the major TV media go out and promote those "WTF" conclusions.

The major problem with analysts today is that they think they were right, if they were right for one week after the call. It doesn't matter after that time frame because they haven't yet updated their view. WTF? It is all about commissions and short-term trading.

The effect on the average person working hard at doing his job and supporting his family be damned.

This is just insane.

yep. and it gets more linked up everyday. and faster. the sec has no chance. all of the exchange mandated regulatory stuff pushed by the sec will not matter a bit when the next panic sets in. the big players will recieve their kickbacks from shaking down members and the risk appetites will only increase.

pphilfran
7/11/2011, 01:35 PM
yep. and it gets more linked up everyday. and faster. the sec has no chance. all of the exchange mandated regulatory stuff pushed by the sec will not matter a bit when the next panic sets in. the big players will recieve their kickbacks from shaking down members and the risk appetites will only increase.

That is much too close to the truth....

OutlandTrophy
7/11/2011, 04:15 PM
you realize that its a federal crime to discriminate against hiring someone because of political beliefs, right?

If being right was a football, your post would be a chopstick. That's how similar your post is to being right.