Why Americans don't care for World Cup Soccer

[Jacie]

First off, it is too complicated. It is like Chinese math compared to the much larger but infinitely more enjoyable March Madness (single elimination - you lose, you are out). You have four groups labeled A, B, C and D. Very imaginative. Now who the hell decided on the countries in each group? What were the criteria for putting the U.S. in a group consisting of our team, Sweden, North Korea and Colombia? What are the natural rivalries? Are there any? And how can they expect Americans to embrace a sport that allows ties and has to resort to points to determine which team advances?

Then there is the length of the game. Damn things go on forever (thank goodness the clock doesn't stop when the ball goes out of bounds). Now you'd think a game that lasts an hour and a half nonstop would be a high-scoring affair but not soccer. It is worse than baseball with all of the 1-0, 1-1 games (remember, they can end in a tie). Imagine sitting through one of those games and at the end there was no winner.

The officiating in soccer reminds me of professional wrestling. Seems the zebras are always looking the other way when some guy gets tripped, has his hair pulled or is kicked in the nuts. And if they do happen to see it, all that happens is the ref runs around waving a yellow card in the air. I agree that the rules in the NFL regarding contact, when, how, and where a player can be blocked are complicated in comparison, but at least contact is allowed and regulated. In soccer, I cannot tell when a penalty or a foul or whatever they call it is committed.

Finally, the sport is just plain boring. The ball goes one way, then the other. It sometimes sails out of bounds or over the goal. It almost never goes in the goal. Maybe the field is too large. A smaller field might make it more exciting, bunch the players up a little more and get the ball into scoring position more often.

The most exciting thing that has ever happened in World Cup soccer was when Brandy Chastain whipped off her shirt in sheer exuberance over the U.S. winning but that only happened once ten years ago and if it had been men's soccer instead of women's we wouldn't have had even that to get charged up about.

So call me when it's over, tell me who won, assuming the U.S. was in the finals . . .

[Curly Bill]

Soccer is boring. The officiating is horrible. The offsides rule has to be the stupidest in all of sports, on and on...

That being said: I find the World Cup compelling and I am watching.

So...maybe I don't mind soccer too much when it's the best playing it on a world stage. Kinda like a lot of the Olympic sports that way.

[Curly Bill]

And some, not a lot, but some of the female players are quite attractive. That's something that can't be said for many of the female sports, cept for tennis and a few of the golfers.

[silverwheels]

Americans don't care for women's sports in general.

[ouleaf]

I think there are plenty of American's who enjoy World Cup Soccer. If you grew up playing soccer, you definitely have a greater appreciation for the sport. While you do have your star players and icons of the game, it is still at it's base a team sport.

It is also very different in that it is a sport that does not stop. Sure you have some slight delays for substitutions, injuries, corner kicks, etc, but for the most part they are in the flow of the game. I feel like as a country we have become so A.D.D. and many just don't have the attention span to watch soccer because there are no real breaks in the action. They are so used to having timeouts, time off between pitches, commercial breaks, etc. that they aren't able to focus and enjoy all that is great about soccer.

[Curly Bill]

Americans don't care for women's sports in general.

I don't consider myself in that group, but I'd agree with ya.

[tommieharris91]

FIFA don't care for women's sports in general.

fixt

[silverwheels]

fixt

Also true.

[yermom]

Americans don't care for women's sports in general.

/thread

football for dudes, soccer for chicks ;)


seriously though, i'm with Curly Bill on the off-sides thing. imagine basketball with a rule like that

i kinda tried to watch the last time, but the vulvazuelas pretty much made it unbearable as well

the pairings/pods do seem weird, but the ideas of standings/points and ties/wins don't really bother me

[tommieharris91]

i kinda tried to watch the last time, but the vulvazuelas pretty much made it unbearable as well


Those are gone. Hell, the best thing about women's soccer is the near-absence of diving.

[yermom]

the near-absence of vulvazuela diving?

[Scott D]

Well that and the fact that the Japanese refs are done for the tournament.

[Scott D]

oh and to answer how the groups are devised...teams get tiered based on their fifa rankings and go into a bowl of balls. teams then get selected for a group based on the bowls. FIFA uses it for not only world cup groups, but for champions league groups as well.

[tommieharris91]

the near-absence of vulvazuela diving?

I think My Opinion Matters sent me this in a spek comment.

[yermom]

that's my thinly veiled troll account

[silverwheels]

I don't get how offside is a difficult rule to understand or why it's stupid. It doesn't even exist in the game until you hit like age 12 (or at least that's the way it was when I played). Trust me, the game needs an offside rule, and a line like hockey wouldn't work.

And I believe international basketball and hockey tournaments use similar seeding systems for their group stages, so it's not exclusive to soccer.

[Curly Bill]

I understand the offsides rule, and I still think it's stupid.

Not only that but how many goals, or possible goals, have I seen disallowed because of a blown call on the offsides rule. For a game that many people's biggest complaint is the lack of excitement, or lack of scoring, that's unforgiveable.

[silverwheels]

But you can't just get rid of the offside rule. It's there to not just prevent cherry-picking (happens all the time in youth soccer), but it also promotes movement by all of the players. Blown calls happen in all sports. It has to be there, no way around it.

And I don't equate excitement with scoring. I've seen lots of exciting games that did not end 4-3. All I want to see is plenty of attacking and good passing. (Neither of which is done by most Central and South American teams, which is why I hate watching/playing them.)


Also, the more FIFA/Qatar talk about the 2022 World Cup, the more it becomes obvious how corrupt (even for FIFA) the voting for that tournament was. At first they were talking about holding it in Winter (would never happen with the European domestic leagues going) and now they're talking about splitting the 90 minutes of regulation time into three 30-minute "periods" like hockey to give the players another break from the blistering heat. There had to have been a lot of cash thrown around to get ****ing Qatar the World Cup. Disgusting.

[yermom]

The Qatar thing does seem puzzling.

I'm not that worried about a lack of scoring, it just seems so random most of the time the ball actually makes it in the goal

[Scott D]

It'd be easier to say that if more countries played like Spain that it would probably be easier to watch in this country...that being said, Argentina is trying to emulate the style, and it likely will end up with their new manager being fired.

[SoonerAtKU]

My gripe is that World Cup soccer is the most watched soccer, but it isn't the best soccer. Sure, Brazil is star-studded, as are a few of the other teams, but I'd rather watch the English, Italian, or Champions Leagues any day.

[silverwheels]

Yeah, club soccer (especially at the highest level) is much more entertaining, mostly because those guys train together almost all year. It doesn't promote much jingoism, though.

But Serie A? Ugh.

[Curly Bill]

But you can't just get rid of the offside rule. It's there to not just prevent cherry-picking (happens all the time in youth soccer), but it also promotes movement by all of the players. Blown calls happen in all sports. It has to be there, no way around it.

And I don't equate excitement with scoring. I've seen lots of exciting games that did not end 4-3. All I want to see is plenty of attacking and good passing. (Neither of which is done by most Central and South American teams, which is why I hate watching/playing them.)


Also, the more FIFA/Qatar talk about the 2022 World Cup, the more it becomes obvious how corrupt (even for FIFA) the voting for that tournament was. At first they were talking about holding it in Winter (would never happen with the European domestic leagues going) and now they're talking about splitting the 90 minutes of regulation time into three 30-minute "periods" like hockey to give the players another break from the blistering heat. There had to have been a lot of cash thrown around to get ****ing Qatar the World Cup. Disgusting.

You could prevent cherry picking if the other team left one of their players back in their offensive end by leaving someone back there with them, or not, your choice. So, I still think it's a dumb rule.

[silverwheels]

That negates the second reason why the offside rule is in place. So it's not a dumb rule.

[GrapevineSooner]

I understand the offsides rule, and I still think it's stupid.

Not only that but how many goals, or possible goals, have I seen disallowed because of a blown call on the offsides rule. For a game that many people's biggest complaint is the lack of excitement, or lack of scoring, that's unforgiveable.

Forgive me for sounding like a soccer snob, and I'm speaking in general terms and not just to you, Curly Bill ;) , but if your primary complaint as a fan is that there isn't enough scoring, may I suggest watching indoor soccer. :D

And as popular as the game is worldwide, I don't know that FIFA is going to pay too much mind to that complaint from fans from a country where the sport is ranked below American football, baseball, basketball, hockey, golf, and maybe even volleyball in terms of interest.

That having been said, you have ventured into one of my biggest pet peeves of FIFA in talking about disallowed goals and what not. Most of which could be prevented by the use of video review.

But as Sepp Blatter has told us, not every country and league has the capabilities of using video review, which would put those countries and leagues that have that at their disposal on an unequal footing.

Not that other factors such as television coverage, player pay, and better stadiums don't already put them on an unequal footing. But that's another discussion.

[northspeter]

i thought world cup soccer was the only time americans cared for soccer at all...??

[silverwheels]

Even England's women's team went out in the World Cup on penalties. :D

[Scott D]

Even England's women's team went out in the World Cup on penalties. :D

on a miss....by their captain...it was very Roberto Baggioesque :D

[silverwheels]

Heh, I remember that I actually liked Italy back then and was crushed when he missed. Now they care more about histrionics and playing negative soccer than trying to make the game attractive so I hate them.

[Scott D]

I for one blame Gennero Gattuso.

[silverwheels]

Japan is about to take out the host nation and defending two-time world champs. This is madness.

[JLEW1818]

i watch all sports

including the hot dog eating contest

[Curly Bill]

i thought world cup soccer was the only time americans cared for soccer at all...??

Raises hand. :D

[Curly Bill]

Forgive me for sounding like a soccer snob, and I'm speaking in general terms and not just to you, Curly Bill ;) , but if your primary complaint as a fan is that there isn't enough scoring, may I suggest watching indoor soccer. :D

And as popular as the game is worldwide, I don't know that FIFA is going to pay too much mind to that complaint from fans from a country where the sport is ranked below American football, baseball, basketball, hockey, golf, and maybe even volleyball in terms of interest.

That having been said, you have ventured into one of my biggest pet peeves of FIFA in talking about disallowed goals and what not. Most of which could be prevented by the use of video review.

But as Sepp Blatter has told us, not every country and league has the capabilities of using video review, which would put those countries and leagues that have that at their disposal on an unequal footing.

Not that other factors such as television coverage, player pay, and better stadiums don't already put them on an unequal footing. But that's another discussion.

No offense taken. I'm actually not one of those who thinks more scoring is necessarily the answer, though I'd say that lack of scoring is a big problem as many Americans see it. It's just ridiculous that many scoring opportunities, and in some instances actual goals, are disallowed over what I still feel is a stupid rule in the offsides rule.

[badger]

I watched Portand Timbers hosting Seattle Sounders in MLS action yesterday. What an awesome atmosphere for an American soccer game. It was a great game with great fans.

Apparently, for some Cascadia Cup competition between the Sounders, Timbers and Vancouver Whitecaps, they are allowing a certain number of visiting fans their own section (complete with security to prevent "hooliganism") to make the games even more fun.

I even downloaded chant and song cheat sheets online to see what the crowd was saying (one of them was the Tetris theme, hehe) because it was so awesome.

So anyway, I think that the USA will eventually be all about the World Cup and its national team, even with funny scoring and such. American sports fans love stats. They just aren't all sold on soccer yet. But they're getting there.

[BillyBall]

A few of the main reasons I think it hasn't really ever caught on in the US except for WC's is the **** that the games most available to watch are MLS games and the MLS is absolutely ****ing atrocious. Until recently you couldn't catch an EPL game unless you had FSC. Watching US soccer is like watching Italian basketball.

Another reason, is that television networks aren't huge fans of the whole 45 minutes without a commercial thing, followed by another 45.

[GrapevineSooner]

A few of the main reasons I think it hasn't really ever caught on in the US except for WC's is the **** that the games most available to watch are MLS games and the MLS is absolutely ****ing atrocious. Until recently you couldn't catch an EPL game unless you had FSC. Watching US soccer is like watching Italian basketball.

Another reason, is that television networks aren't huge fans of the whole 45 minutes without a commercial thing, followed by another 45.

Bingo.

I can run down Liverpool's squad. And maybe a few of their reserves.

I can name David Fereira from FC Dallas' roster. And Gordon John.

And that's about it.

Why? Because FC Dallas is akin to double A baseball while Liverpool FC are one of the most recognizable clubs in the whole world.

[silverwheels]

But that presents a Catch-22. Yeah, the MLS is severely lacking in quality. But American soccer fans need to support it if it is going to improve, despite the fact that it is not as good as the European leagues. Only paying attention to the Premier League or La Liga (which is just 2 teams and a bunch of wannabes right now) isn't going to help American soccer.

[BillyBall]

Fact is, if you are good in this country you get the hell out of here ASAP. And if you fail (Donovan), you come back. If you succeed (Friedel, Dempsey) you stay abroad until you want to retire a la Kasey Keller and Brian McBride.

[silverwheels]

For now and for the foreseeable future, yes, any American with talent needs to head to Europe as soon as he gets a reasonable offer. I hope there is a day when we can use our domestic league to develop good MNT players. Of course that means we'd have to have good youth development (acadamies, basically) as well. That will take decades if it ever happens.

[tommieharris91]

For now and for the foreseeable future, yes, any American with talent needs to head to Europe as soon as he gets a reasonable offer. I hope there is a day when we can use our domestic league to develop good MNT players. Of course that means we'd have to have good youth development (acadamies, basically) as well. That will take decades if it ever happens.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6609795/soccer-ajax-method-catch-us

[tommieharris91]

Fact is, if you are good in this country you get the hell out of here ASAP. And if you fail (Donovan), you come back. If you succeed (Friedel, Dempsey) you stay abroad until you want to retire a la Kasey Keller and Brian McBride.

The best soccer will probably always be in Europe. They have the means to pay players the best. It's kind of like how the best basketball should always be un the US.

[silverwheels]

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6609795/soccer-ajax-method-catch-us

I remember seeing that article before but I didn't have time to read it. Good stuff. But how feasible would that be on a large scale in this country?

[Eielson]

I didn't read the entire thread, but my opinion is that soccer sucks because there isn't much scoring, and 95-99% of most games ends up meaning absolutely nothing. Shoot, 100% of some games don't matter. 0-0 ties are awful.

[silverwheels]

I don't see why people should care about your opinion.

[Eielson]

I don't see why people should care about your opinion.

Sometimes I think about withholding my opinion about how boring soccer is just because I respect a few of the soccer fans on here, and I'm sure they're tired of hearing people say that. Then I remember how it makes you cry whenever anybody insults your beloved sport. The fact that it only took you five minutes to respond made it that much better for me. :D

[silverwheels]

Even if you liked soccer, I wouldn't care, just because it's your opinion.

[Eielson]

You seem awful obsessed about my opinion to not care about it.

[silverwheels]

Two posts is hardly an obsession. How are your pokemon doing?

[Scott D]

I didn't read the entire thread, but my opinion is that soccer sucks because there isn't much scoring, and 95-99% of most games ends up meaning absolutely nothing. Shoot, 100% of some games don't matter. 0-0 ties are awful.

It's a perspective thing. For example, you love basketball, but there are a lot of people worldwide that think basketball is boring because it's all scoring. People think baseball is boring for a bunch of reasons, other people find football boring because it's like watching a 14 year old girl learn to drive on a manual transmission..start/stop/start/stop/start/stop/start/stop. Other people don't like hockey because they relate it to being soccer in terms of the scoring aspect of it.

The only games that don't 'matter' are friendlies, which is just the soccer way of saying 'preseason' for club teams or 'pretournament' for national teams.

[Eielson]

It's a perspective thing. For example, you love basketball, but there are a lot of people worldwide that think basketball is boring because it's all scoring. People think baseball is boring for a bunch of reasons, other people find football boring because it's like watching a 14 year old girl learn to drive on a manual transmission..start/stop/start/stop/start/stop/start/stop. Other people don't like hockey because they relate it to being soccer in terms of the scoring aspect of it.

The only games that don't 'matter' are friendlies, which is just the soccer way of saying 'preseason' for club teams or 'pretournament' for national teams.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I personally just can't really can't get into it. When I was saying most of it didn't matter, I didn't mean that the outcome of the game doesn't matter. I was saying that most of the things that happen in the game don't seem to matter. For example, one team takes a while to finally work the ball down the field, and then they end up kicking it out of bounds. Then the other team gets a goal kick (or whatever it's called), and then they're off to midfield before you know it. At that point, from my perspective, that previous possession meant nothing. No points were scored, and neither team seems to be any closer to scoring.

[NormanPride]

How is that much different than a 9-6 football game where the defenses are amazing?

[Scott D]

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I personally just can't really can't get into it. When I was saying most of it didn't matter, I didn't mean that the outcome of the game doesn't matter. I was saying that most of the things that happen in the game don't seem to matter. For example, one team takes a while to finally work the ball down the field, and then they end up kicking it out of bounds. Then the other team gets a goal kick (or whatever it's called), and then they're off to midfield before you know it. At that point, from my perspective, that previous possession meant nothing. No points were scored, and neither team seems to be any closer to scoring.

There are wasted possessions in pretty much every sport. It's the nature of part of the game revolving around having an opponent trying to beat you by either scoring more or stopping you from scoring.

Honestly, I would rather watch Barcelona play pretty much anyone than to watch a full 9 innings of a Yankees/Red Sox baseball game. I know that the Soccer game will be done roughly between 2 hours to 2 hours 15 minutes. I could go out for 3 hours and miss maybe half that baseball game.

[BillyBall]

Actually the way that Barcelona flops around I may take the Red Sox/Yankee game. That CL semi with Real Madrid was one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.

[GrapevineSooner]

Or a baseball game where one team gets a couple of runners on but leave them on base at the end of each inning?

Or in basketball where the PG has no issues penetrating into the lane but can't finish?

In every sport, you can dominate territorially, but have problems scoring. That problem's not unique to soccer.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

You could prevent cherry picking if the other team left one of their players back in their offensive end by leaving someone back there with them, or not, your choice. So, I still think it's a dumb rule.
This would be equivalent to letting a WR start 15 yards down field, "why not just let a safety stay back there with them?"

[Eielson]

How is that much different than a 9-6 football game where the defenses are amazing?

1) They still scored 5 times.
2) How often do you see 9-6 games?

[Curly Bill]

This would be equivalent to letting a WR start 15 yards down field, "why not just let a safety stay back there with them?"

Not even close to the same. :O

[silverwheels]

It's still a bad idea.

[Eielson]

I'd say it's a lot more like having a guy stand near the basket in basketball. Obviously there are still differences, though.

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Not even close to the same. :O
Having to leave an outfield player to cover a cherry picking forward would be about as stupid/disruptive as having to leave a safety back on a cherry picking receiver. Really Americans are the only ones who complain about offsides in soccer, and its just because they don't understand the game very well. They're akin to the Euros who call American football players "pussies in jousting armor", although I'm sure you'll find that comparison offensive as well.

[agoo758]

Oh, let's not forget my favorite. It's the only sport that has a clock counting UP. Oh, and by the way. The ref gets to decide when the games over. :rolleyes:

[agoo758]

How is that much different than a 9-6 football game where the defenses are amazing?

Because 9-6 games are relatively uncommon in football while 1-0/2-1 games happen all the time in soccer

[yankee]

The U.S. will never be a leader among soccer nations, but there's no doubt it's popularity is growing. MLS is experiencing record growth in attendance and TV viewership. The US men's team in the 2010 WC practically captivated the entire nation. And now the wimmens National team is getting sportscenter highlights and front page stories in the USA Today. I used to be a soccer hater, but I really enjoy watching it now and I've really gotten into the Premier League (YNWA).

[silverwheels]

The problem is that by and large Americans only care about soccer during the World Cup because it inspires jingoism and national pride, something Americans are pretty good at. Otherwise the majority of them don't care.

[silverwheels]

Oh, let's not forget my favorite. It's the only sport that has a clock counting UP. Oh, and by the way. The ref gets to decide when the games over. :rolleyes:

The ref doesn't decide when the game is over. I mean, sure, he could blow the whistle when he wants, but he would face repercussions. The fourth official keeps track of any stoppages in play and adds them up and comes up with stoppage time. Is it exact? No. But it's not like the ref is running around with his thumb up his *** waiting to blow the whistle when he feels like it.

[silverwheels]

Because 9-6 games are relatively uncommon in football while 1-0/2-1 games happen all the time in soccer

And? Again, there can be exciting games with relatively few goals, at least if you know the game. If you don't, then go watch something else. No one is making you watch soccer.

[agoo758]

The ref doesn't decide when the game is over. I mean, sure, he could blow the whistle when he wants, but he would face repercussions. The fourth official keeps track of any stoppages in play and adds them up and comes up with stoppage time. Is it exact? No. But it's not like the ref is running around with his thumb up his *** waiting to blow the whistle when he feels like it.

Really? Is that why every time the ref draws a red card for no reason or disallows a goal for no reason, FIFA does nothing?

[agoo758]

And? Again, there can be exciting games with relatively few goals, at least if you know the game. If you don't, then go watch something else. No one is making you watch soccer.

He was asking the difference between defensive struggles in football and soccer. To shutout a team in football is a great accomplishment no matter who you are playing. In soccer, a goalie can record a shutout without doing much of anything

[silverwheels]

Really? Is that why every time the ref draws a red card for no reason or disallows a goal for no reason, FIFA does nothing?

Well they can't really go back after the game and take the card back (well, I guess they can in extreme circumstances, but they usually don't) or award the goal. FIFA still evaluates the performances of their refs and disciplines them by assigning them to lower-profile games for less money.

[silverwheels]

He was asking the difference between defensive struggles in football and soccer. To shutout a team in football is a great accomplishment no matter who you are playing. In soccer, a goalie can record a shutout without doing much of anything

Apples to oranges. The sports are so dissimilar you can't compare offensive and defensive prowess.

[agoo758]

The U.S. will never be a leader among soccer nations, but there's no doubt it's popularity is growing. MLS is experiencing record growth in attendance and TV viewership. The US men's team in the 2010 WC practically captivated the entire nation. And now the wimmens National team is getting sportscenter highlights and front page stories in the USA Today. I used to be a soccer hater, but I really enjoy watching it now and I've really gotten into the Premier League (YNWA).

Well. I would only go as far to say that the WORLD CUP audience is growing, mainly because we have started winning a little bit since 94, while I believe that we were just awful for the previous 60 years (or at least most of them). But until we start consistently attracting the best talent in the world, then it is never going to grow in any insignificance. Not that is saddens me. I am not interested in generating a fan base that likes to throw firebombs on the field and pull knives to opposing fans over a game.

[SoonerOX]

on a miss....by their captain...it was very Roberto Baggioesque :D

HAHA...Extremely Baggioesque! A nightmare miss for sure.

[agoo758]

Well they can't really go back after the game and take the card back (well, I guess they can in extreme circumstances, but they usually don't) or award the goal. FIFA still evaluates the performances of their refs and disciplines them by assigning them to lower-profile games for less money.

I remember the 06 US game vs. Italy. I have never seen a more corrupt official in my life. In the real world, that conduct gets you fired, not "demoted to lower-profile positions for less money". Though I will admit this. That is a problem for officiate in ALL sports. Problem with soccer is that everything is a judgement call, and therefore they can get away with pretty much ANYTHING they want if they choose.

[SoonerOX]

For now and for the foreseeable future, yes, any American with talent needs to head to Europe as soon as he gets a reasonable offer. I hope there is a day when we can use our domestic league to develop good MNT players. Of course that means we'd have to have good youth development (acadamies, basically) as well. That will take decades if it ever happens.

MLS is apparently mandating youth academies at all MLS clubs. That being said, MLS should start to improve in the coming years (or decade) as those youth players are signed to professional contracts. However, therein lies the problem in my opinion. In Europe and just about everywhere else, the senior teams pay youth players to play in their academies. They don't have to worry about the NCAA's precious amateurism. Over there, the talent is recognized and the kids are signed to what is called a schoolboy contract, until their rights are either sold to a new club, or are signed to the senior team. Our kids have to pay to play. I think that is a major source of the problem.

[silverwheels]

MLS is apparently mandating youth academies at all MLS clubs. That being said, MLS should start to improve in the coming years (or decade) as those youth players are signed to professional contracts. However, therein lies the problem in my opinion. In Europe and just about everywhere else, the senior teams pay youth players to play in their academies. They don't have to worry about the NCAA's precious amateurism. Over there, the talent is recognized and the kids are signed to what is called a schoolboy contract, until their rights are either sold to a new club, or are signed to the senior team. Our kids have to pay to play. I think that is a major source of the problem.

Yeah, the cost of the sport in America is a deterrent, which is why youth academies are great. And the NCAA can shove it. Dumbass organization.

[GrapevineSooner]

The U.S. will never be a leader among soccer nations, but there's no doubt it's popularity is growing. MLS is experiencing record growth in attendance and TV viewership. The US men's team in the 2010 WC practically captivated the entire nation. And now the wimmens National team is getting sportscenter highlights and front page stories in the USA Today. I used to be a soccer hater, but I really enjoy watching it now and I've really gotten into the Premier League (YNWA).

You used to annoy me, but now you don't. ;)

[BillyBall]

Yeah, the cost of the sport in America is a deterrent, which is why youth academies are great. And the NCAA can shove it. Dumbass organization.

Really the only youth development is through the ODP system. I played ODP growing up but it is really expensive, political and at the end of the day all it does is get you to play D-I soccer. And since you get 9 schollys for a 25 man roster, most freshman don't get ****.

I played at UNM my freshman year and had an academic scholarship. Soccer was affecting my grades so I quit after 1 year.

If you want to really train, you go to the Bollateri academy in Florida.

[Scott D]

I'm biased, but I honestly think the Barcelona Academy is the standard bearer for how you run a youth system. If it's clear to them that by the time you reach 18 you've either hit your ceiling, or you are very unlikely to have a career in soccer, they have given you the training and education necessary to go into the working world.

A system like that however on a large scale in this country would almost very likely destroy both high school and college soccer in a very productive manner.

[silverwheels]

I'm biased, but I honestly think the Barcelona Academy is the standard bearer for how you run a youth system. If it's clear to them that by the time you reach 18 you've either hit your ceiling, or you are very unlikely to have a career in soccer, they have given you the training and education necessary to go into the working world.

A system like that however on a large scale in this country would almost very likely destroy both high school and college soccer in a very productive manner.

I'd be okay with that if it was for the growth and improvement of the sport here. Schools can still have club teams for players who aren't good enough to be pros.

[Scott D]

The thing is, a system like that isn't for growth or improvement. It's to turn out the best possible candidates for the professional team. It's a massive investment just for one team to do, much less an entire league. Plus the ramifications of such a system would be farther reaching than just soccer.

[silverwheels]

The thing is, a system like that isn't for growth or improvement. It's to turn out the best possible candidates for the professional team. It's a massive investment just for one team to do, much less an entire league. Plus the ramifications of such a system would be farther reaching than just soccer.

True. I was mainly thinking of the national team and the MLS (which still has a lot of ground to make up on the other sports in terms of popularity).

[jkjsooner]

First off, it is too complicated. It is like Chinese math compared to the much larger but infinitely more enjoyable March Madness (single elimination - you lose, you are out). You have four groups labeled A, B, C and D. Very imaginative. Now who the hell decided on the countries in each group? What were the criteria for putting the U.S. in a group consisting of our team, Sweden, North Korea and Colombia? What are the natural rivalries? Are there any? And how can they expect Americans to embrace a sport that allows ties and has to resort to points to determine which team advances?

Have you ever tried to explain college football to a European? Bowl games, BCS championship game that may or may not be considered legitimate, media voting on the best teams, algorithms that also play a role in the best teams, not enough non-regional games with too many teams to really get an idea on who is the best team. I love college football but it would be hard to criticize the world cup system in light of what we have in college football.

I'm sure soccer is a wonderful game. My biggest problem is that it's hard for me to believe that the most deserving team wins when the score is 1-0.

As I figure it, there's a handful of good scoring opportunities in a game. I'd guess (and I'm just making this up) there's a 20% chance of scoring in each of these opportunities.

Let's say team A generates 10 scoring opportunities and team B generates 4. There's about a 10% chance (.8^10) than team A will not score. There's a 40% chance that team B will not score. Considering that team A generated 150% more scoring opportunities than team B, I don't like the idea that B still has a decent chance of winning.

[Scott D]

Let's say team A generates 10 scoring opportunities and team B generates 4. There's about a 10% chance (.8^10) than team A will not score. There's a 40% chance that team B will not score. Considering that team A generated 150% more scoring opportunities than team B, I don't like the idea that B still has a decent chance of winning.

To be fair, you have a chance of that in our football as well. Team A could get in the red zone 7 times and come away with 4 field goals, 2 loss of downs, and 1 turnover and lose 14-12 because Team B had two opportunities in the red zone and scored TD's both times. Does that mean that Team B is better than Team A despite Team A having both Time of Possession, and High percentage scoring opportunities advantages by more than a 3 to 1 ratio?

[King Barry's Back]

Americans don't care for women's sports in general.

OK, I am responding to about the fifth post in a multi-page thread, w/o reading the rest of the thread. This is always dangerous, but I wanted to add some overseas perspective to silverwheels' comment.

Yes, it's true, Americans are not that interested in women's sports, but compared to Germany, we stand tall.

Five years ago, I was living in Beligum when the Men's Soccer World Cup was held next door in Germany. Brussels was gaga for the World Cup. Everything in the city was all about the world cup, and the week before and all during the tournament, you saw dozens of fans driving through on their way to Germany to watch the games. Following Italy's win, we were kept awake for hours as fans drove randomly through neighborhoods honking their horns.

Last year, I was living in Germany when the Men's World Cup was held in South Africa. Germany's team was favored to contend. As the tournament got under way, the highways were packed with cars fully decked out in German flags and bunting. On days when the German team played, even in my little suburb, hundreds of people would wander through town waving flags and doing cheers the whole day long. Every restaurant and bar and shop, w/ even the smallest of TVs, would be packed to capacity with fans.

Following German victories, even in my suburb and I guess in small towns and big cities across Germany, the whole town would be flooded by fans just going berserk.

I wish I had thought to take pictures, it's just hard to imagine how intensely they celebrated. Imagine when OU wins the national championship, and they host a victory party in OKC or Norman. But imagine the celebration is not confined to one small park, or to a couple of sections of the stadium, but encompasses the whole of, say, Bricktown and the business district.

And then imagine that happening everywhere, in every town, in the whole state. That would give you some idea of what it was like when Germany won a normal game -- they didn't even make it to the championship game.

Now comes the Women's World Cup. I was really kind of psyched up about it. Germany was considered a top contender, and the tournament was held right here in Germany. Some of the games were played only an hour away, and Frankfurt is not much further. I was really looking forward to all the hoopla. (I even bought a little German flag to wave. Not so much because I wanted the Germans to win, but because I just wanted to join in.)

What happened? Nothing. Nada. You'd see a car flag or two on the way to work. A couple of my neighbors put up German flags in their windows, and you saw that occassionally. When the Germans played, in bars there might be a few tables in the corner watching the game.

And no post game celebrations. I guess there must have been more excitement had they made it to the finals, but the ladies were mostly ignored.

Kind of a letdown for me.

[Statalyzer]

The offsides rule has to be the stupidest in all of sports,

With the possible exception of stoppage time and deciding games on penalty kicks (both of which are also soccer-specific rules also, except Hockey has shootouts to break ties which are just as pathetic as penalty kicks).